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Tolan
01-10-2016, 09:59 AM
Using the ancient European genomes, WHG (Loschbour, La Braņa), EEF (LBK, Troc3, Anatolian Farmers) and Yamnaya,
we can not find exactly the current populations of Europe, mainly in the South.
I used the results of EurasiaK10CHG calculator (made by Kurd), and the new tool created by Huijbregts:
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6156-An-alternative-for-4Mix

For the countries of southern Europe and some western and central, a mixture with Middle Eastern populations, improves the results significantly.
These are the populations ranging from Cyprus to Iraq, passing through Armenia, that gives the best results.
I have not kept ultimately Cyprus and Armenia, as these two countries may have been too into contact with European countries.
So I chose Assyria, Syria and the Iraqi Jews.
It would be better a ancient genome from Mesopotamia or the fertile crescent to be sure!

Regarding Yamnaya, the calculator gives different results according to the ancient yamnaya genome.
I took extreme: I0231 for YamnayaE and Rise552 for YamnayaW
I put Kotias in Yamnaya because we do not know the exact composition of those who migrated to western Europe.
The mixture of the three can give a fairly close mixed.


http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/Country.png

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/Ancient.png

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/graph.png

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/CroissantFertile.png

Odyss
01-10-2016, 10:11 AM
Yes there's definietly Copper Age to Bronze-Age Anatolian admixture in Europe , especially South Europe. Those Bronze-Age Anatolians were different from the Early Neolithic Anatolian farmer like Barcin_. They notably brought large amount of CHG admixture.

Tomenable
01-10-2016, 11:08 AM
Interesting is this breakdown for Yamna West and East - it's Yamna_Samara and Yamna_Kalmykia, right ???

Bell Beaker:

Yamna_West = 18,6%; Yamna_East = 14,1%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 9%

Corded Ware:

Yamna_West = 9,7%; Yamna_East = 24,2%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 25,8%

Does this show, that R1a is from "Teal people" (from Iran?), or perhaps R1a was present in Eastern Yamna?

Maybe this explains where did R1a Xiaohe mummies buried in the Tarim Basin come from ???

Generalissimo
01-10-2016, 11:15 AM
Interesting is this breakdown for Yamna West and East - it's Yamna_Samara and Yamna_Kalmykia, right ???

Bell Beaker:

Yamna_West = 18,6%; Yamna_East = 14,1%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 9%

Corded Ware:

Yamna_West = 9,7%; Yamna_East = 24,2%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 25,8%

Does this show, that R1a is from "Teal people" (from Iran?), or perhaps R1a was present in Eastern Yamna?

Maybe this explains where did R1a Xiaohe mummies buried in the Tarim Basin come from ???

Yamnaya Kalmykia has more CHG because it's more southern.

And I'd say it's pretty clear R1a is from EHG.

Tomenable
01-10-2016, 11:56 AM
And I'd say it's pretty clear R1a is from EHG.

R1a-M198 does not show up in EHG, though.

EHG had both R1a and R1b (see Samara sample), but not modern subclades - those were some extinct subclades.

Even Khvalynsk R1a and R1b are not modern according to Genetiker.

Actually R1a from Tarim Basin are the oldest samples of R1a-M198 found so far.


Yamnaya Kalmykia has more CHG because it's more southern.

And Corded Ware has more CHG because it's more southern... wait - no, it is not more southern than Bell Beaker.

Tomenable
01-10-2016, 12:01 PM
Actually R1a from Tarim Basin are the oldest samples of R1a-M198 found so far.

Possibly with the exception of Poltavka sample (which might be older), but Poltavka is already R1a-Z93.

Padre Organtino
01-10-2016, 12:50 PM
NE French scores are rather surprising. Not sure what's going on there.

Generalissimo
01-10-2016, 01:33 PM
And Corded Ware has more CHG because it's more southern... wait - no, it is not more southern than Bell Beaker.

Corded Ware doesn't have more CHG than Yamnaya. But it has more CHG than Bell Beaker, because it's an earlier steppe-derived group and therefore has more steppe ancestry.

Btw, I don't know what the case is in this test. I'm going by what I know.


R1a-M198 does not show up in EHG, though.

R1a-M198 shows up in ancient samples with high ratios of EHG. You would need some serious twists and turns to get R1a-M198 from somewhere other than Eastern Europe, where its sister clades are. I fail to see the point, unless you're bored or something.

Tomenable
01-10-2016, 02:12 PM
R1a-M198 shows up in ancient samples with high ratios of EHG.

We don't really know what was the extent of autosomally EHG people, though.

Just like we don't know if autosomally "Teal people" lived only in Georgia, or somewhere else too.

By the way - do we have autosomal DNA of Tarim mummies with R1a-M198 ???

Tomenable
01-10-2016, 02:13 PM
NE French scores are rather surprising. Not sure what's going on there.

FRNW is rather France North-West, not France North-East ??? Where do you see France NE ???

rozenfeld
01-10-2016, 02:17 PM
We don't really know what was the extent of autosomally EHG people, though.

Just like we don't know if autosomally "Teal people" lived only in Georgia, or somewhere else too.

By the way - do we have autosomal DNA of Tarim mummies with R1a-M198 ???

We don't. In fact, with the exception of Siberia, Caucasus and Anatolia, there are no ancient autosomal from Asia.

Tolan
01-10-2016, 03:37 PM
Interesting is this breakdown for Yamna West and East - it's Yamna_Samara and Yamna_Kalmykia, right ???

Bell Beaker:

Yamna_West = 18,6%; Yamna_East = 14,1%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 9%

Corded Ware:

Yamna_West = 9,7%; Yamna_East = 24,2%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 25,8%

Does this show, that R1a is from "Teal people" (from Iran?), or perhaps R1a was present in Eastern Yamna?

Maybe this explains where did R1a Xiaohe mummies buried in the Tarim Basin come from ???

CHG came through two different paths in Europe, and which complicates the understanding of things!
Kotias is not 100% CHG, and CHG are not found only in Kotias!

In the South Europe, it is mainly from the Middle East (Neolithic or Bronze Age?) that CHG happened.
In the North but also in the South (except Sardinia), CHG may have come from people of the Steppes.

In this calculator, CW over that BB in CHG, which is normal because it probably has more people of the Steppes in his genome.
But my work shows that, in fact, the part of Yamnaya in CW is higher with CHG than in the part of Yamnaya of BB.

If one takes only the part of Yamnaya in CW (59.7%) and BB (41.7%):
CHG: 43 vs. 36
WHG: 9 vs 15
EHG: 40 vs. 44

But if one day we have a ancient genome from Mesopotamian or Fertile Crescent, these results may change.
Because everything is connected, a value is changed, and any other changes including people associated with Yamnaya

sweuro
01-10-2016, 03:44 PM
Anways, this calculator is a bit strange, because there is components that are related to each other , that they overalp , for example the EEF are related with the Fertile Crescent compnent. Also, the EEF have already WHG in them, which is not expressed in the WHG but in the EEF component.

Helgenes50
01-10-2016, 03:49 PM
FRNW is rather France North-West, not France North-East ??? Where do you see France NE ???

These France-NW samples are from Brittany and Lower Normandy

can't_lurk_no_mo'
01-10-2016, 05:13 PM
Why does Anatolia spike so high with Britain? Is that related to the Celtic substrate?

Tolan
01-10-2016, 07:20 PM
Why does Anatolia spike so high with Britain? Is that related to the Celtic substrate?

The most important is the addition: Troc3 + LBK + Anatolian Farmer.
I'm not certain that the detail is pertinant!

Padre Organtino
01-10-2016, 07:22 PM
FRNW is rather France North-West, not France North-East ??? Where do you see France NE ???

I see it on the map plus in the results: Flandres and Vallonia are pretty similar ethnically despite speaking different languages

Padre Organtino
01-10-2016, 07:32 PM
And you shouldn't put Kotias into Yamnaya. Those were very different populations.

Kotias is much closer to any Fertile Crescent pop than it is to Yamnaya (cause the other par of Yamnaya is EHG).

parasar
01-10-2016, 08:08 PM
Interesting is this breakdown for Yamna West and East - it's Yamna_Samara and Yamna_Kalmykia, right ???

Bell Beaker:

Yamna_West = 18,6%; Yamna_East = 14,1%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 9%

Corded Ware:

Yamna_West = 9,7%; Yamna_East = 24,2%; Kotias (Teal / CHG ???) = 25,8%

Does this show, that R1a is from "Teal people" (from Iran?), or perhaps R1a was present in Eastern Yamna?

Maybe this explains where did R1a Xiaohe mummies buried in the Tarim Basin come from ???

The 4.9-4.7ky Potapovka sample is key. This sample from the Samara Bend is very early and already R1a-Z94 so that (Iran, E. Yamna) is a clear possibility.

Tolan
01-11-2016, 07:48 AM
And you shouldn't put Kotias into Yamnaya. Those were very different populations.

Kotias is much closer to any Fertile Crescent pop than it is to Yamnaya (cause the other par of Yamnaya is EHG).

I hesitated, I tried by removing Kotias.
The results for CW I0103, suggests that people coming from the east were probably more richer in CHG and WHG than Yamnaya samples:

Name; WHG;Troc3;LBK;Anatolian;EEF;YamW;YamE;Kotias;Yamna ya or similar;Assyrian;Syrian;Iraqi_Jew;Fertile Crescent;distance
CW_I0103;30.2;0;0;10.1;10.1;9,7;24.2;25.8;59.7;0;0 ;0;0;315
Without Kotias;20.3;0;0;9.8;9.8;63.3;0;X;63.3;6.6;0;0;6.6; 390

Generalissimo
01-11-2016, 08:18 AM
The 4.9-4.7ky Potapovka sample is key. This sample from the Samara Bend is very early and already R1a-Z94 so that (Iran, E. Yamna) is a clear possibility.

The Poltavka sample you mean. It's very western, even compared to early Corded Ware.

It's probably from the far western steppe or the Corded Ware horizon. It's definitely from nowhere near Iran. You know this as well as I do.

parasar
01-13-2016, 02:59 AM
The Poltavka sample you mean. It's very western, even compared to early Corded Ware.

Yes, it is the Potapovka I sample called the Poltavka_outlier:
"I0432 SVP42 Non-petrous bone (Femur) Outlier N N Poltavka_outlier IGNORE IGNORE New 1240k data - 1 2925-2536 calBCE (AA12569) 4940 4551 Potapovka I, Sok River, Samara Russia 53.66 50.67 0.87 648,053 M Yes 10,867,614 U5a1c R1a1a1b2a Z94"



It's probably from the far western steppe or the Corded Ware horizon. It's definitely from nowhere near Iran. You know this as well as I do.

No I don't. I consider the boundary regions of Anatolia - the western Khazar steppe, the Caucasus, and NW Iran/N Iraq/NE Syria all as possibilities.
If we go by ancient DNA finds till now I think that latter two as unlikely based on results from Georgia, Turkey, and Armenia.

But if we go by present distribution of Z93* Iran is definitely possible.

Present Z93* Samples:

B110 (Altai + Kyrgyz)
8312442 unique 1 in in 5 0 R1a2a B110
17560160unique 1 in in 5 0 R1a2a B110_eq
21453767unique 1 in in 5 0 R1a2a B110_eq
28754329unique 0 in OUT 5 0 R1a2a B110_eq
28764404unique 1 in in 5 0 R1a2a B110_eq


B142 Iran
6730127unique 1 in in 1 0 R1a2-B142
50 Equivalents

YP1451 YF02655ENG English
(14043092-14043193) YP1451

YP1506 HG03705PJL Punjabi
(9792177-9792278)YP1506

id:YF01991RUS Russian
id:YF02054RUS [RU-ALT]
id:YF03036POL [PL-MZ] Polish
id:YF03234
id:YF03565

Germany 1
Estonia 4
Maris 1
Tatars 4
Hungary 1
Italy 1
Slovenia 2
Romania 2
Crete 5
Turkey 3
Druze 4
Qatar 1
Oman 2
Iran 29
Iran Azeri 5
Iran Kerman 9
Armenian 3
Karachays 3
Abazins 1
Balkars 1
Kabardin 3
Kumyks 4
Ingush 2
Nogays 1
Karanogays 2
Pakistan South 2
India North 1
India East 1
India Northeast 1
Afghanistan Pashtun 1
Afghanistan Tajiks 3
Afghanistan Turkmens 1
Turkmens, Tajiks 1
Kyrgyzstan 12
Altaians (Russia) 21
Tuvas (Russia) 2
Khakassians (Russia) 24

Generalissimo
01-13-2016, 03:27 AM
I consider the boundary regions of Anatolia - the western Khazar steppe, the Caucasus, and NW Iran/N Iraq/NE Syria all as possibilities.
If we go by ancient DNA finds till now I think that latter two as unlikely based on results from Georgia, Turkey, and Armenia.

Poltavka outlier is a straight two-way mix of Yamnaya-like EBA western steppe people and Middle Neolithic Central Europeans.

The Poltavka outlier (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/the-poltavka-outlier.html)

So his Z93 comes from the EBA western steppe.

parasar
01-13-2016, 03:38 AM
Poltavka outlier is a straight two-way mix of Yamnaya-like EBA western steppe people and Middle Neolithic Central Europeans.

The Poltavka outlier (http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2016/01/the-poltavka-outlier.html)

So his Z93 comes from the EBA western steppe.

Steppe people and neolithics - very possible; western steppe and neolithics - possible; western steppe people and Middle Neolithic Central Europeans - impossible.
IMO, the question mark on your map will be answered in the negative unless you move it to the south-east - near Azov:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cNSXwsd3wOw/VpRL6ZyiLQI/AAAAAAAAD5E/LkYHrKiBHpI/s1600/The_conquest_of_Asia.png

Generalissimo
01-13-2016, 03:42 AM
western steppe people and Middle Neolithic Central Europeans - impossible.

I'm not debating whether its possible or not, I'm saying it's a fact.

parasar
01-13-2016, 03:46 AM
I'm not debating whether its possible or not, I'm saying it's a fact.

You can entitled to advance theories, not make up facts. When and if ancient Z93/Z94 turns up prior to Potapovka I in proximity to the location of "?" then it will be a fact.

Generalissimo
01-13-2016, 04:11 AM
You can entitled to advance theories, not make up facts. When and if ancient Z93/Z94 turns up prior to Potapovka I in proximity to the location of "?" then it will be a fact.

You said it was impossible that Poltavka outlier had Middle Neolithic Central European ancestry. I said it was a fact, because it is a fact. That's what the data shows. You can't get around this.

He's basically a mixture of Europe MN and Yamnaya. You can't add anything to that, no matter how much you would like to.

parasar
01-13-2016, 05:48 AM
You said it was impossible that Poltavka outlier had Middle Neolithic Central European ancestry. I said it was a fact, because it is a fact. That's what the data shows. You can't get around this.

He's basically a mixture of Europe MN and Yamnaya. You can't add anything to that, no matter how much you would like to.

Now that you have the Potapovka I data set, are you able to calculate f3 Potapovka I, Loschbour + Yamna/Samara; and Potapovka I, Anatolian Neolithic + Yamna/Samara?

Generalissimo
01-14-2016, 03:17 AM
Now that you have the Potapovka I data set, are you able to calculate f3 Potapovka I, Loschbour + Yamna/Samara; and Potapovka I, Anatolian Neolithic + Yamna/Samara?

I'm guessing you mean f3(Loschbour,Yamnaya_Samara : Poltavka_outlier), since Poltavka_outlier has to be the target to test for mixture in this sample.

But it's not possible, because you can't run a haploid sequence and expect sound results. It just looks too inbred.

What's wrong with the D-stats and TreeMix showing Iberia_MN as the best surrogate for Middle Neolithic ancestry in Poltavka_outlier? They fit the PCA and ADMIXTURE results for Poltavka_outlier.

I have no idea why you've set your heart on this sample being Anatolian in some way?

parasar
01-14-2016, 03:25 AM
I'm guessing you mean f3(Loschbour,Yamnaya_Samara : Poltavka_outlier), since Poltavka_outlier has to be the target to test for mixture in this sample.

But it's not possible, because you can't run a haploid sequence and expect sound results. It just looks too inbred.

What's wrong with the D-stats and TreeMix showing Iberia_MN as the best surrogate for Middle Neolithic ancestry in Poltavka_outlier? They fit the PCA and ADMIXTURE results for Poltavka_outlier.

I have no idea why you've set your heart on this sample being Anatolian in some way?

That is what I was looking for.

Anatolian or Balkan or Iberian is not the issue, I wan't to check if Poltavka_outlier shares drift with Loschbour. If it does, I would agree that a central European input is possible.


At the same time, however, the signal from the Early Neolithic (EN) Iberian fails to reach significance (Z=<3), which suggests that, in fact, TreeMix and D-stats might be seeing the Iberia MN sample as the most attractive mixture source due to her high level of Western European hunter-gatherer (WHG) ancestry, which Poltavka outlier also has plenty of, rather than anything specific to Iberia.
http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-poltavka-outlier.html

Bonacci
11-18-2016, 10:33 AM
Most of the EEF is Near Eastern like with some WHG affinity.

South Europe is basically 50-70% Fertile Descent.

http://i60.tinypic.com/2zfqxpt.jpg

Kanenas
11-18-2016, 01:28 PM
I find interesting that 'Fertile Crescent' admixture in Greeks, Tuscans and Albanians appears as 'Assyrian', while on Sicilians, Maltese etc. get mostly 'Iraqi Jew'. It might mean that it is a result of admixture from different populations.

I also find interesting that EEF admixture peaks (apart from Sardinia) in Southwestern Europe, higher in South France. Eupedia's map which includes only EEF, WHG and ANE is misleading and inaccurate.

Also, actual Yamnaya admixture appears very low in all Southern European countries. It would be interesting if we get ancient Greek and Roman samples and it is even lower (that's what I expect, I know what the views of the majority are).

Bonacci
11-18-2016, 02:21 PM
Yamnaya admixture may be the signature of "Indo-European" invasion but it's just my theory as the more isolated regions are free from "Ancient North Eurasian" or Yamnaya like alleles. The most obvious genetic barrier is the Mediterranean sea that's why Bedouins, North Africans, Mediterranean Islanders seem to lack these components as well as the spread of Indo-European language groups might add the extra ANE elements in North Europe and West/Central Asia.

The EEF peaks at 87% in Samaritans followed by Gulf Arabs and Sardinians. It's certainly the result of Neolithic-Bronze age migrations.

palamede
11-18-2016, 04:41 PM
Most of the EEF is Near Eastern like with some WHG affinity.

South Europe is basically 50-70% Fertile Descent.


It is very wrong . the values of the map are absurd. Near Eastern and Fertile Crescent are about 30% of EEF. The majority of EEF come from the HGs of Egean regions, including West Anatolia.

South Europe is 15 to 35% from Near East and West of Fertile Crescent.

Tz85
11-18-2016, 05:00 PM
My mom is half Southern Italian/Sicilian. She scores 30% mid east, Anatolian Assyrian. If I was able to test my grandmother, I guarentee she'd come up 60-70% mid east, near eastern. This is a very common occurance.

Arame
11-20-2016, 07:36 AM
Tolan

You did this before the Anatolia Chl sample was known. Can You redo it, using that sample instead of modern pops.

Gravetto-Danubian
11-20-2016, 07:52 AM
Tolan

You did this before the Anatolia Chl sample was known. Can You redo it, using that sample instead of modern pops.

Anat Chalc doesn't appear to have made much impact on modern Pops (outside groups like Cyprus) in my runs, perhaps but Armenia EBA keeps appearing for Southern Europe.

Arame
11-21-2016, 08:22 AM
Anat Chalc doesn't appear to have made much impact on modern Pops (outside groups like Cyprus) in my runs, perhaps but Armenia EBA keeps appearing for Southern Europe.

Well he can give a choice to the calculator between various post Neolithic West Asian samples (Anat Chl, Arm & Jordan EBA and maybe Iran Chl ).

Tolan
11-21-2016, 01:56 PM
Well he can give a choice to the calculator between various post Neolithic West Asian samples (Anat Chl, Arm & Jordan EBA and maybe Iran Chl ).

I try Anatolian_CHL, LevantN, Jordan EBA
Jordan EBA looks better but I do not have as good results as with modern people.
But I do not have the time right now

DMXX
11-21-2016, 02:46 PM
It's probably best to use region-specific ancient samples for modelling modern populations to avoid red herrings. The EBA Armenians are effectively Chechen-like in their ancestral proportions, ergo, mimic what may be observed in various populations outside the Caucasus in the broadest phylogenetic sense, including those in South Europe. Some early qpAdm runs using Armenia_EBA for Iranians and South-Central Asians "worked" statistically, for instance, but obviously didn't match reality.

Arame
11-24-2016, 07:39 AM
The EBA Armenians are effectively Chechen-like in their ancestral proportions, ergo, mimic what may be observed in various populations outside the Caucasus in the broadest phylogenetic sense, including those in South Europe.

DMXX

Maybe there is a confusion here. You mean EBA (Kura-Araxes) or MLBA? Because they are different.

This is a Armenia MLBA who really has a Chechen look.
M062682 RISE396 Armenia LBA [1192-937 BC] H6b -


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 41.55
2 North_European 20.46
3 Gedrosia 19.03
4 Atlantic_Med 11.47
5 Southwest_Asian 7.49


--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kumyks @ 11.966615
2 Turks @ 14.196581
3 Turkish @ 14.270226
4 Lezgins @ 16.640831
5 Chechens @ 17.450224
6 Kurds @ 18.661001
7 Iranian @ 19.559507
8 Adygei @ 19.585905
9 Kurd @ 19.788809
10 Uzbekistan_Jews @ 20.322556

And this is EBA. (Kura-Araxes)
M731608 I1633 Armenia EBA [2619-2410 BC] H1u -


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 54.33
2 Gedrosia 26.91
3 North_European 7.91
4 Southwest_Asian 6.72
5 Atlantic_Med 3.79


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Armenians_15 @ 13.256729
2 Armenians @ 14.541741
3 Kurds @ 14.674057
4 Armenian @ 14.972234
5 Iranian @ 16.047369
6 Kurd @ 16.281904
7 Kumyks @ 16.505596
8 Azerbaijan_Jews @ 16.570547
9 Turks @ 16.792994
10 Georgia_Jews @ 16.832848
11 Uzbekistan_Jews @ 17.120836
12 Adygei @ 17.509773
13 Assyrian @ 17.606697
14 North_Ossetians @ 18.129784
15 Chechens @ 18.174397
16 Balkars @ 18.468088
17 Turkish @ 19.219975
18 Lezgins @ 19.485666
19 Abhkasians @ 20.274683
20 Iranian_Jews @ 20.378120

Arame
11-24-2016, 07:42 AM
And this is the new high coverage MLBA sample ( ~1500BC) from Lazaridis et al. It is obviously very different from EBA.


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 39.18
2 Gedrosia 25.56
3 North_European 17.87
4 Atlantic_Med 11.89
5 Southwest_Asian 5.38


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kumyks @ 13.906940
2 Lezgins @ 15.483199
3 Kurds @ 15.909305
4 Iranian @ 16.110607
5 Kurd @ 16.586245
6 Turks @ 16.879910
7 Turkish @ 17.713974
8 Iranians @ 18.862301
9 Turkmens @ 19.009945
10 Chechens @ 19.114256
11 Uzbekistan_Jews @ 20.990032
12 Adygei @ 22.656595
13 Nogais @ 22.818752
14 Balkars @ 24.064386
15 North_Ossetians @ 24.261089
16 Armenians_15 @ 24.866060
17 Georgia_Jews @ 25.449173
18 Armenian @ 25.544401
19 Azerbaijan_Jews @ 25.843575
20 Assyrian @ 26.423281

Gravetto-Danubian
11-24-2016, 07:58 AM
It's probably best to use region-specific ancient samples for modelling modern populations to avoid red herrings. The EBA Armenians are effectively Chechen-like in their ancestral proportions, ergo, mimic what may be observed in various populations outside the Caucasus in the broadest phylogenetic sense, including those in South Europe. Some early qpAdm runs using Armenia_EBA for Iranians and South-Central Asians "worked" statistically, for instance, but obviously didn't match reality.

It also comes up with DStat ancient data, and there is archaeological evidence for at least a couple Post-Early Neolithic movements to Southern Europe. In fact, ancient DNA papers have already suggested it
After all, how/where did all the hg J arrive to southern Europe?
It appears that the best match for this Pop(s) is Arm EBA, not Anatolia Chalc (too much Levant admix), not Iran Chalc; but what it really represents isn't quite clear yet.

DMXX
11-24-2016, 09:07 AM
DMXX

Maybe there is a confusion here. You mean EBA (Kura-Araxes) or MLBA? Because they are different.


Thank you, I mistakenly switched the names with the results internally.

On the same page as you gents now. Yes, something Kura-Araxes-like would fit the bill for both the later Neolithic upswell in CHG Davidski picked up in South Europe alongside the Y-DNA J2b found in BR2 (Bronze Age Hungary).