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Thanathos
01-13-2016, 02:36 PM
Hi everyone,

I'm interested in genealogy, history and genetics. That's why i took a test recently and i just got the results. I want to share them since french people results seem to be rare and that could interest some people here maybe. :p My ancestry is quite simple and specific ( from what i could trace ) : northern french from the border with Belgium ( like at 1km from the border :p ) with obvious waloon/flemish ancestry. Here the results, i dont know if that's normal or not !

http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/9b501488-33ef-461d-b5f6-da4661d40b3e.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/9b501488-33ef-461d-b5f6-da4661d40b3e.jpg)
http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/a6b57767-f77b-40f7-b99e-749ea84da902.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/a6b57767-f77b-40f7-b99e-749ea84da902.jpg)
http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/dce99920-dea6-4a99-895e-e9533a38a891.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/dce99920-dea6-4a99-895e-e9533a38a891.jpg)
http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/d8af23eb-9639-4fc0-a33a-0c449f5c9c88.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/d8af23eb-9639-4fc0-a33a-0c449f5c9c88.jpg)
http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/8d0371a5-a64f-4c87-8c28-cb91fc124e97.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/8d0371a5-a64f-4c87-8c28-cb91fc124e97.jpg)
http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/72328dcb-bce1-4fea-bf80-153e2affb076.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/72328dcb-bce1-4fea-bf80-153e2affb076.jpg)
http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/2ac93bfc-a917-4739-900f-7b6111a08f9a.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/2ac93bfc-a917-4739-900f-7b6111a08f9a.jpg)
http://tof.canardpc.com/preview2/834a0316-7e06-4780-bde6-10f054ba329f.jpg (http://tof.canardpc.com/view/834a0316-7e06-4780-bde6-10f054ba329f.jpg)

Caratacus
01-17-2016, 05:24 PM
Same paternal line as me :) Yes, your results are what I would expect for a north French person but they do show how these tests easily confuse neigbouring populations.

rms2
01-17-2016, 05:33 PM
Apparently you are R1b-L21, Thanathos (although I hope you remain athanatos).

If you have not done so, you should acquire some STRs and some further SNP testing from Family Tree DNA and join the R L21 and Subclades Project.

R L21 and Subclades Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-l21/about/background)

7339

Helgenes50
01-17-2016, 06:02 PM
Welcome Thanatos,

My West-Northern French results with Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 48.95
2 Baltic 20.84
3 West_Med 17.61
4 East_Med 6.68
5 West_Asian 3.34
6 Sub-Saharan 0.98
7 Amerindian 0.87
8 Red_Sea 0.72

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 4.81
2 South_Dutch 5.28
3 Southwest_English 5.44
4 West_German 6.94
5 Orcadian 7.22
6 French 7.75
7 West_Scottish 8.08
8 Irish 8.2
9 North_Dutch 8.79
10 Danish 9.2
11 North_German 9.86
12 Norwegian 11.08
13 Swedish 12.86

evon
01-17-2016, 07:09 PM
Welcome L21+ brother :) I see you got some South Asian %, have you found many DNA relatives in he Balkans (Especially Romania and Hungary)? It could be Romani (Gypsy) ancestry ;)

anglesqueville
01-17-2016, 10:38 PM
Hi Thanatos!
You results are quite normal. I can show you a dendrogram I made this afternoon with a part of my familial clan, on the basis of their results with eurogenes v2k15 (very close to k13):
7344

The nationalities are the averages with v2k15. B,D: half Normand (Cotentin) half Brittany (+ a pinch of other) / G: likely 4/4 normand (Cotentin)/A,C,E,F: normand (north Caux)+1/4 or 1/8 flemish (Ostende). H is a normand friend (Cotentin). Northwesterner are a little family!

Anglecynn
01-17-2016, 11:49 PM
Very similar to my results actually, just somewhat south/southwest of my positon:

Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.30
2 Baltic 24.24
3 West_Med 12.62
4 East_Med 7.06
5 West_Asian 5.63
6 Red_Sea 1.98
7 South_Asian 1.37

Thanathos
01-18-2016, 10:53 AM
Welcome L21+ brother :) I see you got some South Asian %, have you found many DNA relatives in he Balkans (Especially Romania and Hungary)? It could be Romani (Gypsy) ancestry ;)

Nothing from balkan or anywhere close as far I know ! The only relatives i got on 23andme and gedmatch are mostly flemish, dutch, british/irish (from USA and from UK/ireland ) and some norwegian/danish. I have one russian relative though so maybe it could be from there !

evon
01-18-2016, 10:59 AM
Nothing from balkan or anywhere close as far I know ! The only relatives i got on 23andme and gedmatch are mostly flemish, dutch, british/irish (from USA and from UK/ireland ) and some norwegian/danish. I have one russian relative though so maybe it could be from there !

Any relatives with mtDNA M5, or YDNA H1? If you PM me your nickname at 23andme I can send you a sharing invite and see if you match any of the peoples with Romani ancestry that I share with...

Tolan
01-18-2016, 11:10 AM
Hi Thanathos!
I'm from the East of Britanny.
My 23andMe results:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/resultats23andme.png

On 23andMe, "French & German" is highest in the Benelux.
For a French near the Belgian border, your results seem normal to me.

Thanathos
01-18-2016, 11:22 AM
Very similar to my results actually, just somewhat south/southwest of my positon:

Eurogenes K13
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.30
2 Baltic 24.24
3 West_Med 12.62
4 East_Med 7.06
5 West_Asian 5.63
6 Red_Sea 1.98
7 South_Asian 1.37

Yes quite close indeed ! I'm actually a bit more south of your position geographically so it makes totally sense. And it shows the genetical likeness of the region going from northwestern France to England, Benelux and maybe western Germany.

Thanathos
01-18-2016, 11:58 AM
EDITED

Thanathos
01-18-2016, 12:30 PM
Hi Thanatos!
You results are quite normal. I can show you a dendrogram I made this afternoon with a part of my familial clan, on the basis of their results with eurogenes v2k15 (very close to k13):
7344

The nationalities are the averages with v2k15. B,D: half Normand (Cotentin) half Brittany (+ a pinch of other) / G: likely 4/4 normand (Cotentin)/A,C,E,F: normand (north Caux)+1/4 or 1/8 flemish (Ostende). H is a normand friend (Cotentin). Northwesterner are a little family!

My maternal grandpa's line has apparently a connection with Upper Normandy but i dont know if they come from there originally, I can only trace them into the "flemish" part of Pas-de-Calais but thats all. But i'm sure that all my direct ancestors are from Hainaut, Flanders and Pas de Calais up to the XVIth century. Before that ( Middle Ages ), i know for sure I have some local nobility like the D'Enghien and De Quarouble families ( some others too but i forgot :p ). I was a bit surprised with the east asian bits, i don't know where it could come from... Maybe just noise.

Thanathos
01-18-2016, 12:33 PM
Hi Thanathos!
I'm from the East of Britanny.
My 23andMe results:

http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/resultats23andme.png

On 23andMe, "French & German" is highest in the Benelux.
For a French near the Belgian border, your results seem normal to me.

And we have similar results too, I have less southern but it makes sense since I'm more in a northern part than you ! :p But i can see a similar pattern.

Thanathos
01-18-2016, 12:58 PM
Welcome Thanatos,

My West-Northern French results with Eurogenes K13

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 48.95
2 Baltic 20.84
3 West_Med 17.61
4 East_Med 6.68
5 West_Asian 3.34
6 Sub-Saharan 0.98
7 Amerindian 0.87
8 Red_Sea 0.72

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southeast_English 4.81
2 South_Dutch 5.28
3 Southwest_English 5.44
4 West_German 6.94
5 Orcadian 7.22
6 French 7.75
7 West_Scottish 8.08
8 Irish 8.2
9 North_Dutch 8.79
10 Danish 9.2
11 North_German 9.86
12 Norwegian 11.08
13 Swedish 12.86

Thanks ! Are you fully from France and Normandie ?

Helgenes50
01-18-2016, 02:47 PM
Thanks ! Are you fully from France and Normandie ?

Yes I am full Norman, my 4 grandparents are from the Cotentin peninsula

https://www.google.fr/search?q=presqu%27%C3%AEle+du+cotentin&rlz=1C1RNVE_en___FR548&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij0s_kzLPKAhUKuhQKHaioDZMQ_AUIBigB

Thanathos
01-18-2016, 07:59 PM
Yes I am full Norman, my 4 grandparents are from the Cotentin peninsula

https://www.google.fr/search?q=presqu%27%C3%AEle+du+cotentin&rlz=1C1RNVE_en___FR548&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij0s_kzLPKAhUKuhQKHaioDZMQ_AUIBigB

I know well what is the Cotentin Peninsula since I went there for holidays ! :p On Eurogenes K36, I score around 8,5% of fennoscandian ( I can't upload a screenshot yet since i'm on a crappy phone...). Is that normal since I score something like 5% in french ? I was a bit confused by that.

evon
01-18-2016, 08:04 PM
I know well what is the Cotentin Peninsula since I went there for holidays ! :p On Eurogenes K36, I score around 8,5% of fennoscandian ( I can't upload a screenshot yet since i'm on a crappy phone...). Is that normal since I score something like 5% in french ? I was a bit confused by that.

The low French is likely because this cluster is the weakest cluster used by 23andme, only 9% or so of French and German samples actually have that component if I remember the details correctly.

Think it is listed here (on my way out so I cant fin check it, but it should be there):
https://www.23andme.com/en-int/ancestry_composition_guide

Note: Disregard this post, I thought you were talking about 23andme, not K36..

anglesqueville
01-18-2016, 10:40 PM
The low French is likely because this cluster is the weakest cluster used by 23andme, only 9% or so of French and German samples actually have that component if I remember the details correctly.

Think it is listed here (on my way out so I cant fin check it, but it should be there):
https://www.23andme.com/en-int/ancestry_composition_guide

K36 is a very particular calculator. Which series of alleles have been choosed to be called "french", or "italian", or anything ... this is quite mysterious. This is of course more or less the case of every calculator old school that used modern populations as references. Anyway, they all are dependant of samples resulting of genomewide studies made by a few number of projects (HGDP,1000genomes, etc), and we are forced to trust them, just because there is nothing else. But if it is true that the french sample of HGDP comes from a dozen of individuals from Lyon, it is difficult to believe that the resulting averages make sense for all the "french" populations. For a few months I use to make PCAs (Principal Component Analysis) for each new calculator, with the users of this forum. The results are not allways easily interpretable, but most often they make sense. In the contrary, a few days ago, some people in my familial clan have asked me to make PCAs for them, and I decided to add some averages that I choose in the spreadsheet. Well, I have big problems. An example:
For MDLPUltimate K13: 7365. Roughly what I expected. Now: PuntDNAL K11: 7366. Big problem: I know very well the points A, F, and G: they are me, my mother, and a nephew, not Annunakis! What do they make in this no man's land? And why is the icelandic point so far from the norwegian one? And why ....etc, many questions.
Only one element: averages are averages, individuals are individuals, and when one blends individuals and averages without any consistent statistical safeguard, particularily measures of dispersion, one must expect some kind of trouble. That's exactly what happens with our beloved calculators, and even more with their oracles. Conclusion: don't worry, be happy ... and enjoy the game.

edit: I wanted to reply to Thanatos, not to Evon. Unnskyld min venn.

evon
01-18-2016, 11:00 PM
I see I misunderstood, guess I should not read and reply posts when I am in a hurry :P Just disregard my post, as I thought you were talking about 23andme, not K36..

tchekitchek
01-19-2016, 05:33 AM
I know well what is the Cotentin Peninsula since I went there for holidays ! :p On Eurogenes K36, I score around 8,5% of fennoscandian ( I can't upload a screenshot yet since i'm on a crappy phone...). Is that normal since I score something like 5% in french ? I was a bit confused by that.
Those K36 results are normal, slightly higher Fennoscandian than the French average... but it's a weird calculator. The English scores higher "French" than the French.
Personally I've got 7.57% in Fennoscandian and 5% in French.

anglesqueville
01-19-2016, 07:17 AM
Those K36 results are normal, slightly higher Fennoscandian than the French average... but it's a weird calculator. The English scores higher "French" than the French.
Personally I've got 7.57% in Fennoscandian and 5% in French.

In my clan, nobody has less than 7% for K36's fennoscandian, and 4 individuals (among 11) have more than 12%. I don't want to believe that my family is so special. Allways those damned averages! Furthermore I agree, K36 is weird , but according to my PCAs, there are many weird calculators.

ffoucart
02-03-2016, 01:55 AM
Hi, Thanathos welcome

May I ask you where you're from more precisely (I'm from the Nord Pas de Calais too)? The border is quite long.

My AC (3/4 from NPDC and 1 from Rhône-Alpes-Auvergne):

99.8% European

Northwestern European
32.3% French & German
24.1% British & Irish
2.4% Scandinavian
28.1% Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
2.6% Iberian
2.6% Italian
4.8% Broadly Southern European
2.9% Broadly European

0.1% Middle Eastern & North African
0.1% North African

0.1% East Asian & Native American
East Asian
0.1% Broadly East Asian

my father (4/4 NPDC)

99.8% European

Northwestern European
28.3% British & Irish
22.4% French & German
3.3% Scandinavian
32.9% Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
1.6% Italian
0.3% Iberian
5.1% Broadly Southern European

5.9% Broadly European

0.1% Sub-Saharan African
0.1% West African

0.1% East Asian & Native American
East Asian
0.1% Broadly East Asian

0.1% Middle Eastern & North African
< 0.1% North African
< 0.1% Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
< 0.1% Unassigned

I've also some ancestors in the Audomarois, and more specifically around Eperlecques (Artois Flamingant)


Add-on: is your father line Flemish or Walloon/French? As we are both L21, it could be interesting to know (my direct ancestor born circa 1720 around St Pol/Ternoise).

Thanathos
02-03-2016, 05:34 AM
Hi, Thanathos welcome

May I ask you where you're from more precisely (I'm from the Nord Pas de Calais too)? The border is quite long.

My AC (3/4 from NPDC and 1 from Rhône-Alpes-Auvergne):

99.8% European

Northwestern European
32.3% French & German
24.1% British & Irish
2.4% Scandinavian
28.1% Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
2.6% Iberian
2.6% Italian
4.8% Broadly Southern European
2.9% Broadly European

0.1% Middle Eastern & North African
0.1% North African

0.1% East Asian & Native American
East Asian
0.1% Broadly East Asian

my father (4/4 NPDC)

99.8% European

Northwestern European
28.3% British & Irish
22.4% French & German
3.3% Scandinavian
32.9% Broadly Northwestern European

Southern European
1.6% Italian
0.3% Iberian
5.1% Broadly Southern European

5.9% Broadly European

0.1% Sub-Saharan African
0.1% West African

0.1% East Asian & Native American
East Asian
0.1% Broadly East Asian

0.1% Middle Eastern & North African
< 0.1% North African
< 0.1% Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
< 0.1% Unassigned

I've also some ancestors in the Audomarois, and more specifically around Eperlecques (Artois Flamingant)


Add-on: is your father line Flemish or Walloon/French? As we are both L21, it could be interesting to know (my direct ancestor born circa 1720 around St Pol/Ternoise).

hi !

My paternal line is mainly from the Valenciennois, in the Hainaut ( Quarouble and Quiévrechain ). I trace it directly until the XVIth century. I have a good number of waloon (and some flemish sounding) names in that line during the XIXth century but I apparently have some connexion with the D'Enghien family too and some "flemish" nobles a bit more far back in the time. My paternal grandmother is from Audomarois too (she was from St Omer) and i have several flemish sounding names there. On my maternal side, she was born in Lille and the father of her own mother had a flemish name too and his ancestor migrated from Belgium to find some work in northern France factories. My maternal Grandpa has family near wissant apparently and a bit in "southern Pas de Calais". And my surname is apparently both northern french and belgian (and a bit rare too) and could be the name of a flemish migrant in old french but im not totally sure of that part. :)
Would be interesting to see if we are related on 23andme or gedmatch !

ffoucart
02-03-2016, 07:21 AM
My paternal grandfather was around 1/4 from South of Pas de Calais, as said above, 1/4 from Cambresis, 3/8 from Douai and surrounds (with one recent ancestor from around Peruwelz in Belgium), and 1/8 from around Bethune.

My paternal grandmother was from Halluin and surrounds and Lille, but with recent ancestry from Brabant (my ancestor came to Lille around 1810). As usual, given that Halluin lies at the border, I have ancestry from both sides.

My maternal grandfather was from Boulogne, but his grandfather was from Audomarois (Bomy, Saint Omer, Eperlecques, and at Watten and surrounds). Some spoke Flemish. His mother was from a well-known sailor family of Boulogne, and his paternal grandmother had ancestry around Verlincthun (half) and Bainghen and surrounds (half). Some lines can be followed to families from Wissant (and its "white sand", lol) and Bazinghen.

I've send you my gedmatch by mp.

It's almost certain we have some common ancestry (all the Boulonnais are relatives of some sort).

palamede
02-03-2016, 10:04 AM
My paternal line was from the Belgian Hainaut around Charleroi (100%) and my maternal line was from Pays de Bray in NE Nomandy (75%) and Mont-Ormel and villages around (25%) near Chambois of Orne department.
Mont-Ormel is famous for the tough battle between a Polish armored division and SS units fundamental to close the Falaise Pocket and to capture 40-50,000 German soldiers.
http://ww2today.com/20-august-1944-polish-armour-holds-ss-counter-attack-at-mont-ormel

Eurogenes K13 from my FTDNA Family Finder sample :
Population
North_Atlantic 43.92%
Baltic 20.17%
West_Med 18.68%
West_Asian 8.57%
East_Med 4.83%
Red_Sea 1.09%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.92%
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.20%
Oceanian 0.62%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Dutch 4.94
2 West_German 5.61
3 French 6.68
4 Southeast_English 8.6
5 Southwest_English 8.85
6 Orcadian 10.1
7 Irish 10.49
8 North_German 10.55
9 North_Dutch 10.93
10 West_Scottish 11.03
11 Danish 11.35
12 Austrian 11.6
13 East_German 13.03
14 Spanish_Cataluna 13.13
15 Norwegian 13.17
16 Swedish 14.21
17 Southwest_French 14.27
18 Spanish_Galicia 14.35
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.43
20 Spanish_Cantabria 14.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.3% West_German + 15.7% French_Basque @ 3.79
2 65.9% Irish + 34.1% North_Italian @ 3.81
3 88.8% South_Dutch + 11.2% French_Basque @ 4.08

I am mt H2a2a1 which could be originated from the Oslo Gulf (a peak in my Mt matches) and Y G2a2b2a1a1b-L497 a Neolithic Central European (peak in western Tyrol, sibling of the very Caucasian G2a2b2a1a1a-U1) and very curiously I have got a strong (for NW Europa) West_Asian component 8.57% (same thing with Eurogenes K15 and other calculators). Either it is by chance or I am multi-descendant of an old colony of neolithic shepherds in Walloon Fagne and Ardennes coming from Caucasus by Danube valley (often European G is associated with mountains and shepherds).

Thanathos
02-05-2016, 05:49 PM
My paternal line was from the Belgian Hainaut around Charleroi (100%) and my maternal line was from Pays de Bray in NE Nomandy (75%) and Mont-Ormel and villages around (25%) near Chambois of Orne department.
Mont-Ormel is famous for the tough battle between a Polish armored division and SS units fundamental to close the Falaise Pocket and to capture 40-50,000 German soldiers.
http://ww2today.com/20-august-1944-polish-armour-holds-ss-counter-attack-at-mont-ormel

Eurogenes K13 from my FTDNA Family Finder sample :
Population
North_Atlantic 43.92%
Baltic 20.17%
West_Med 18.68%
West_Asian 8.57%
East_Med 4.83%
Red_Sea 1.09%
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.92%
Siberian -
Amerindian 1.20%
Oceanian 0.62%
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Dutch 4.94
2 West_German 5.61
3 French 6.68
4 Southeast_English 8.6
5 Southwest_English 8.85
6 Orcadian 10.1
7 Irish 10.49
8 North_German 10.55
9 North_Dutch 10.93
10 West_Scottish 11.03
11 Danish 11.35
12 Austrian 11.6
13 East_German 13.03
14 Spanish_Cataluna 13.13
15 Norwegian 13.17
16 Swedish 14.21
17 Southwest_French 14.27
18 Spanish_Galicia 14.35
19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.43
20 Spanish_Cantabria 14.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.3% West_German + 15.7% French_Basque @ 3.79
2 65.9% Irish + 34.1% North_Italian @ 3.81
3 88.8% South_Dutch + 11.2% French_Basque @ 4.08

I am mt H2a2a1 which could be originated from the Oslo Gulf (a peak in my Mt matches) and Y G2a2b2a1a1b-L497 a Neolithic Central European (peak in western Tyrol, sibling of the very Caucasian G2a2b2a1a1a-U1) and very curiously I have got a strong (for NW Europa) West_Asian component 8.57% (same thing with Eurogenes K15 and other calculators). Either it is by chance or I am multi-descendant of an old colony of neolithic shepherds in Walloon Fagne and Ardennes coming from Caucasus by Danube valley (often European G is associated with mountains and shepherds).

Thank you for sharing your results ! What i can observe from the various northern french/ belgian results I saw is that it seems very homogeneous. It would be very interesting to compare with central or eastern french.

sweuro
02-05-2016, 06:33 PM
Interesting seeing more french people. Thanathos, can you show your mixed modes ? (2 populations mix, etc.)

Thanathos
02-05-2016, 07:12 PM
Interesting seeing more french people. Thanathos, can you show your mixed modes ? (2 populations mix, etc.)

Here you go:

Eurogenes k13:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.6% North_German + 33.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.01
2 63.5% North_German + 36.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.07
3 66.4% French + 33.6% Norwegian @ 1.12
4 62.1% North_Dutch + 37.9% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.19
5 92.8% South_Dutch + 7.2% French_Basque @ 1.23
6 60.8% French + 39.2% North_Dutch @ 1.25
7 65.3% North_German + 34.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.26
8 59.4% Norwegian + 40.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.28
9 58.4% French + 41.6% Orcadian @ 1.37
10 65.2% North_Dutch + 34.8% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.39
11 61.5% Danish + 38.5% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.43
12 56.2% Norwegian + 43.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.43
13 61.5% French + 38.5% Danish @ 1.46
14 64.6% Danish + 35.4% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.5
15 61.1% French + 38.9% Irish @ 1.54
16 62.8% North_Dutch + 37.2% Portuguese @ 1.57
17 56.8% Norwegian + 43.2% Portuguese @ 1.57
18 63.1% North_German + 36.9% Southwest_French @ 1.57
19 60.5% North_German + 39.5% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.58
20 68.9% French + 31.1% Swedish @ 1.59


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Spanish_Cataluna +50% Swedish @ 1.849853


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% North_German +25% South_Dutch +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.000947


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French + North_German + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 0.614965
2 Austrian + Irish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Murcia @ 0.669276
3 Austrian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish @ 0.722548
4 Austrian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Scottish @ 0.753836
5 North_German + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Spanish_Galicia @ 0.778009
6 Austrian + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish @ 0.848912
7 Austrian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + West_Scottish @ 0.851699
8 French + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Spanish_Galicia @ 0.875124
9 Danish + French + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Swedish @ 0.880332
10 French + North_German + Spanish_Aragon + Swedish @ 0.886642
11 Austrian + Portuguese + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 0.903720
12 French + North_Dutch + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Swedish @ 0.916834
13 Austrian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Valencia + West_Scottish @ 0.928415
14 French + Irish + Spanish_Cataluna + Swedish @ 0.929631
15 Danish + French + Norwegian + Spanish_Galicia @ 0.947188
16 Austrian + Irish + Southeast_English + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 0.977372
17 Austrian + Danish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Aragon @ 0.978917
18 Austrian + Irish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Valencia @ 0.982499
19 Austrian + Irish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 0.992055
20 French + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 0.992572

Eurogenes k15:
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Dutch 4.1
2 Southwest_English 5.43
3 French 5.82
4 West_German 6.88
5 Southeast_English 7.01
6 North_German 8.96
7 Danish 9.17
8 Irish 9.18
9 West_Scottish 9.38
10 North_Dutch 9.39
11 Orcadian 9.95
12 Norwegian 11.59
13 East_German 11.62
14 West_Norwegian 12.81
15 Spanish_Galicia 12.97
16 Swedish 13.02
17 Spanish_Cataluna 13.17
18 Portuguese 14.11
19 North_Swedish 14.28
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.68

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.6% Danish + 17.4% Sardinian @ 2.88
2 57.7% Norwegian + 42.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.95
3 60.4% Norwegian + 39.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.07
4 55.1% West_Norwegian + 44.9% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.11
5 57.8% West_Norwegian + 42.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.24
6 52.7% Southwest_English + 47.3% French @ 3.3
7 59.5% Danish + 40.5% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.31
8 61.5% Norwegian + 38.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.35
9 74.6% Southwest_English + 25.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.35
10 57.7% Norwegian + 42.3% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.41
11 60.3% West_Norwegian + 39.7% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.46
12 90.8% Southwest_English + 9.2% Sardinian @ 3.46
13 55.1% West_Norwegian + 44.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.48
14 76.7% Southwest_English + 23.3% Portuguese @ 3.51
15 64.6% French + 35.4% Danish @ 3.51
16 82.6% West_Scottish + 17.4% Sardinian @ 3.51
17 53.5% Norwegian + 46.5% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.55
18 62.9% Norwegian + 37.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.56
19 70.6% French + 29.4% Norwegian @ 3.57
20 82.1% Southwest_English + 17.9% North_Italian @ 3.58


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French +50% Southwest_English @ 3.850257


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% South_Dutch +25% Spanish_Cantabria +25% West_Norwegian @ 3.406270


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 French + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.062918
2 Danish + French + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.271838
3 Danish + French + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Norwegian @ 3.310198
4 Norwegian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.338463
5 French + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.347811
6 French + North_Swedish + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.357781
7 South_Dutch + South_Dutch + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Norwegian @ 3.406270
8 French + Norwegian + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.418467
9 North_Swedish + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.433858
10 French + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Norwegian @ 3.437214
11 South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Norwegian @ 3.442748
12 French + North_Swedish + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish @ 3.447780
13 Norwegian + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.462643
14 French + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.465025
15 Norwegian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria + West_German @ 3.469463
16 French + North_Swedish + Southeast_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.473628
17 French + North_Swedish + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.481982
18 North_Swedish + South_Dutch + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.493111
19 French + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Aragon @ 3.514787
20 French + North_Dutch + Norwegian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.515139

tchekitchek
02-05-2016, 10:23 PM
I am mt H2a2a1 which could be originated from the Oslo Gulf (a peak in my Mt matches) and Y G2a2b2a1a1b-L497 a Neolithic Central European (peak in western Tyrol, sibling of the very Caucasian G2a2b2a1a1a-U1) and very curiously I have got a strong (for NW Europa) West_Asian component 8.57% (same thing with Eurogenes K15 and other calculators). Either it is by chance or I am multi-descendant of an old colony of neolithic shepherds in Walloon Fagne and Ardennes coming from Caucasus by Danube valley (often European G is associated with mountains and shepherds).
Funny you say that because, my mother is from the deepest Ardennes, and I've got a relatively high East-med and West_Asian component which pulls me east, and I often get results around the Balkan (Croatian, Bulgarian...); on Puntdnal or Gedrosia I tend to have high Caucasus or Eastern hunter gatherer results... I wonder if it could be linked to the Habsburg Empire...

anglesqueville
02-05-2016, 11:04 PM
Interested to see you on the PCA of K13 ( the blue dot are averages, so don't interpret such a picture in a too categorical way:
7635

tchekitchek
02-05-2016, 11:25 PM
Shall I be included in that PCA if I give you my K13?

anglesqueville
02-06-2016, 06:50 AM
Shall I be included in that PCA if I give you my K13?

Of course, but not before tomorrow evening (sunday 7), I'm not at home today.

tchekitchek
02-07-2016, 07:39 AM
Of course, but not before tomorrow evening (sunday 7), I'm not at home today.
Thanks, whenever you can.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 44.71
2 West_Med 17.99
3 Baltic 17.65
4 East_Med 9.76
5 West_Asian 5.43
6 South_Asian 1.88
7 Red_Sea 1.84
8 Amerindian 0.39
9 Oceanian 0.35

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 2.68
2 South_Dutch 5.15
3 West_German 5.74
4 Southeast_English 9.12
5 Spanish_Cataluna 9.85
6 Southwest_English 10.01
7 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 11.21
8 Spanish_Galicia 11.44
9 Portuguese 11.44
10 Orcadian 11.61
11 North_German 12.33
12 Irish 12.37
13 Spanish_Cantabria 12.39
14 West_Scottish 12.42
15 Spanish_Murcia 12.51
16 North_Dutch 12.59
17 Spanish_Valencia 12.63
18 Danish 12.69
19 Southwest_French 12.71
20 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 80.3% French + 19.7% Southeast_English @ 1.51
2 84.9% French + 15.1% West_Scottish @ 1.52
3 57.4% West_Scottish + 42.6% North_Italian @ 1.53
4 68.9% Southwest_English + 31.1% Tuscan @ 1.55
5 85.1% French + 14.9% Irish @ 1.6
6 82.2% French + 17.8% Southwest_English @ 1.61
7 84.6% French + 15.4% Orcadian @ 1.67
8 86% French + 14% Danish @ 1.72
9 62.7% Southwest_English + 37.3% North_Italian @ 1.75
10 86.2% French + 13.8% North_Dutch @ 1.78

anglesqueville
02-07-2016, 04:01 PM
New PCAs, with tchekitchek ( on PCA_extra_2 I've added some south-euro averages)
76697670

Tolan
02-07-2016, 05:05 PM
Just out of curiosity..
Angles, whenever you can:

North_Atlantic 41.38%
Baltic 22.95%
West_Med 19.27%
West_Asian 3.96%
East_Med 9.22%
Red_Sea 0.85%
South_Asian 1.67%
East_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.21%
Northeast_African 0.50%
Sub-Saharan -

anglesqueville
02-07-2016, 05:24 PM
Tolan added.
76717672

Titane
02-07-2016, 05:45 PM
French Canadian...
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 45.54
2 West_Med 18.82
3 Baltic 17.6
4 East_Med 7.43
5 West_Asian 5.76
6 Red_Sea 1.51
7 Oceanian 1.23
8 South_Asian 1.1
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Amerindian 0.33
11 Sub-Saharan 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 4.09
2 South_Dutch 5.28
3 West_German 6.26
4 Southeast_English 8.42
5 Southwest_English 8.74
6 Spanish_Cataluna 10.35
7 Orcadian 10.68
8 Irish 11.35
9 West_Scottish 11.41
10 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 11.7
11 North_Dutch 11.98
12 Spanish_Galicia 12
13 North_German 12.12
14 Portuguese 12.17
15 Spanish_Cantabria 12.22
16 Danish 12.28
17 Southwest_French 12.31
18 Spanish_Murcia 13.17
19 Spanish_Valencia 13.21
20 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.27

Titane
02-07-2016, 06:03 PM
And my mother...

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 46.19
2 West_Med 20.61
3 Baltic 17.33
4 East_Med 5.99
5 West_Asian 4.68
6 Red_Sea 1.74
7 Amerindian 1.39
8 Sub-Saharan 1.1
9 Oceanian 0.36
10 East_Asian 0.28
11 Siberian 0.19
12 South_Asian 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 French 5.37
2 South_Dutch 6.85
3 West_German 8.18
4 Southwest_English 8.95
5 Southeast_English 9.15
6 Spanish_Cataluna 10.12
7 Southwest_French 10.94
8 Spanish_Cantabria 11.15
9 Orcadian 11.15
10 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 11.22
11 Spanish_Galicia 11.6
12 Irish 11.74
13 West_Scottish 11.76
14 Portuguese 12.08
15 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 12.62
16 North_Dutch 12.78
17 Spanish_Murcia 12.88
18 Spanish_Valencia 12.89
19 Danish 13.24
20 Spanish_Aragon 13

anglesqueville
02-08-2016, 07:36 AM
With Titane and her mom:
7686

ffoucart
02-08-2016, 09:55 AM
Can you add my results (on another thread)? Not an obligation, especially if you are too busy. Thx

anglesqueville
02-08-2016, 12:01 PM
With ffoucart
7688

Titane
02-08-2016, 08:44 PM
With Titane and her mom:
7686
Thank you, merci!
But a stupid question - where is maman?
Titane

anglesqueville
02-08-2016, 09:53 PM
Titane, your mom ('titsmother', no stupid joke, only a short name) is just beyond you, at the dot (0.1, 3.2) (approximatively). ( je viens de répondre, bien tardivement, à un de tes mails de ce week-end. pardon pour tout ce désordre.)

Titane
02-08-2016, 11:17 PM
Ah OK merci. I'll pass on the name. I now know what you really call me when you talk to your computer.

And what moves her up, her stronger southwest French component?
We seem very French - goes with the paper trail. Next I will make a list of all the locations of origin of each of my lines - when known of course...
Titane

anglesqueville
02-08-2016, 11:35 PM
And what moves her up, her stronger southwest French component? I don't think so. Look on this normalized PCA, especially on the direction of the West-med component. 7699
My interpretation is: combination of a rather high North-Atlantic with a sub-saharian around1.

ffoucart
02-09-2016, 06:32 AM
a bit surprising, but thx

Thanathos
02-09-2016, 09:51 AM
I seem to be at the middle between french, english and german but I'm not sure I'm doing a correct interpretation !

anglesqueville
02-09-2016, 10:57 AM
To ffoucart, Thanatos (and perhaps others): a PCA is a PCA, nothing else. Furthermore don't forget that these PCAs are dependent from an admixture calculator and from averages ( once again, bad averages, without any dispersion indicators) computed on samples (bad samples, without any sampling informations). Then, take all this with a big pinch of salt ( well, a whole saltshaker). It's interesting for my clan, because it seems that from a calculator to another the relative positions are very stable, and this is the first topic we were wondering about. But for the rest: I've seen absurd PCAs. Indication: I've computed PCAs with all the available calculator of gedmatch, and with some that are not on gedmatch but have available DIY files. Those I did'nt post are at least problematic. That was for me a real surprise: some calcs I was tempted to trust give very dubious PCAs. Is the problem in the calc, or only in the averages spreadsheet: I cannot say. Eurogenes K13 is one of the most trustworthy.

ffoucart
02-09-2016, 11:48 AM
Don't worry, I know.

Titane
02-10-2016, 01:24 AM
I don't think so. Look on this normalized PCA, especially on the direction of the West-med component. 7699
My interpretation is: combination of a rather high North-Atlantic with a sub-saharian around1.

Here are the locations of the marriages of my French ancestors - those I know of course...

For my mother: (in bold those that appear on both lists- see why below)
Coutran, Champagne, France
St-Langis les Mortagne, Perche, Orne, France
Brouage, Charentes Maritimes,France
Chartres, Eure et Loire, France
Chemillé, Angers, Maine et Loire, France
Breuil-Magné, Charentes Maritimes, France
Rochefort (Saint-Louis), Charentes Maritimes, France
Ventrouze (Ste-Madeleine), Perche, Normandie, France
Paroisse St-Jean, Mortagne-au-Perche, Orne, France
Andilly (St-Nazaire), Charentes Maritimes, , France

For my father :
Eigg, Hebrides, Scotland, Great-Britain
Bruxelles, Belgique
St-Langis les Mortagne, Perche, France
Paroisse St-Jean, Mortagne-au-Perche, Orne, France
Andilly (St-Nazaire), Charentes Maritimes, France
Brouage, Charentes Maritimes, France
Chartres, Eure et Loire, France
Igé, St-Martin, Orne, France
Rouen, Seine-Maritime, France
Paroisse St-Jean, Mortagne-au-Perche, Orne, France
Chemillé, Angers, Maine et Loire, France
Niort, Poitou, France
Hiers Brouages (St-Pierre), Charentes Maritimes,France

Hard to find sub Sahara there... I thought there may be more answers in the haplogroups (from the French Heritage Project at FT-DNA)... Most are R-M269, but there is J-M172 - she has Côté (Coste), Michaud, Ouellet (Houallet), or E-L117 from Marin Boucher...but then, so does my father. My parents are related at the 5th generation - 9 couples in common, but one Acadian couple twice and Marin Boucher and Perrine Mallet appear 3 times... All those are 17th Century arrivals except for the Scottish couple that emigrated in 1772. These are marriages to keep the list shorter, but if I added births it would add Switzerland, Paris and Aix en Provence to the mix.

So, this is why I am so surprised that she doesn't plot closer to me. If anything, my father would have a more northern component.

anglesqueville
02-12-2016, 04:31 PM
Hard to find sub Sahara there Admixture calculators happen to give us rather exotic components. I know what I'm talking about... But, too bad if I hurt a genealogy junky like you, I don't attempt to find a bellorussian or latvian genealogic line when a calc gives me some % of bellorussian or latvian.

Titane
02-12-2016, 05:43 PM
Admixture calculators happen to give us rather exotic components. I know what I'm talking about... But, too bad if I hurt a genealogy junky like you, I don't attempt to find a bellorussian or latvian genealogic line when a calc gives me some % of bellorussian or latvian.

Ok I am a genealogy junky, but I think you are a math junky. Both addicts, just a different drug and genetic genealogy made us cross paths - sharing an "identical by chance segment" to boot. If the data existed, I would still look to see the link between Finland and Bielorussia...
Could not resist - got the results of the latest hockey match between the two.

anglesqueville
02-12-2016, 05:57 PM
I forgot to tell that I like all these sorts of junkies: maths, genetics, linguistics, archeology, history, etc... and genealogy of course. Good drugs.

Titane
02-12-2016, 06:06 PM
I forgot to tell that I like all these sorts of junkies: maths, genetics, linguistics, archeology, history, etc... and genealogy of course. Good drugs.

And forum junkies too.
Now, to add fuel and for the future generations who will try to understand how come their Finnish ancestors have Bielorussian roots, here is an account of a meeting of the Bielorussian-Finland association. The only thing they have in common apparently is that they do not talk much (someone should have suggested hockey as a topic).
http://www.siirtolaismuseo.fi/belaruse.htm

Nino90
10-12-2018, 12:45 PM
I noticed we plot very close on the Lukasz' K47 PCA!
Are you fully french?

Moe12
10-12-2018, 01:16 PM
What I find weird is, this says that "R1b1b" is the most common at Western Europe, yet Wikipedia claimes that "R1b1a" is the most common... ???

AzureKite
11-05-2018, 03:15 AM
How did you post your results like that?