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OldAl
01-21-2016, 11:12 PM
I got the 37 marker test today, sending it back tomorrow. My paternal ancestry is Greek Cypriot, from Paphos, so if anyone is interested I will share the results when I get them here. I would also like some explanation of the results once they arrive, if anyone would be so kind!

Agamemnon
01-22-2016, 01:02 AM
Fantastic news, we certainly need more uniparental data from Cyprus, the more resolution the better!

OldAl
01-23-2016, 05:58 PM
Just out of curiosity, if I sent the sample back yesterday, when should I expect the results? I remember 23andme having a much shorter waiting period than they advertised.

Anabasis
01-23-2016, 06:09 PM
I got the 37 marker test today, sending it back tomorrow. My paternal ancestry is Greek Cypriot, from Paphos, so if anyone is interested I will share the results when I get them here. I would also like some explanation of the results once they arrive, if anyone would be so kind!
My father in law is Turkish Cypriot from Paphos. we sent the kit 2 weeks ago to FTDNA for im. But test is for Family Finder. In future we think to buy YDNA test as well. Thats why i realy curious on your results. Actualy more results from Cyprus would be nice.

OldAl
02-04-2016, 09:57 PM
I just got an estimate for when the results should be back. March 30th-April 13th, 2016, batch 662.

wmehar
02-05-2016, 03:19 PM
I got the 37 marker test today, sending it back tomorrow. My paternal ancestry is Greek Cypriot, from Paphos, so if anyone is interested I will share the results when I get them here. I would also like some explanation of the results once they arrive, if anyone would be so kind!

I think my pappou's tooth is somewhere around, you think there's DNA on that? He's from Larnaca, Cyprus.

OldAl
03-17-2016, 08:23 PM
First part of the results are in! Not sure how to take a screenshot on this library computer so I'll type the results of the panel in.

Panel 1 (1-12)

DYS393 DYS390 DYS19** DYS391 DYS385 DYS426 DYS388 DYS439 DYS389I DYS392
12 23 14 10 13-15 11 16 11 13 11

DYS389II***
31

Panel 2 (13-25)

DYS458 DYS459 DYS455 DYS454 DYS447 DYS437 DYS448 DYS449 DYS464
17 8-9-9 11 11 25 15 20 25 12-12-14-15-16-16

Panel 3 (26-37)

DYS460 Y-GATA-H4 YCAII DYS456 DYS607 DYS576 DYS570 CDY DYS442 DYS438
11 10 22-22 15 13 19 18 30-34-35 13 10

Micro alleles
DYS458
17.2 (Normalized 17)

I have no idea what any of this means! If someone could explain a little bit or tell me what to do with these, it would be much appreciated.

OldAl
03-17-2016, 08:24 PM
That didn't come out right at all, I'll screen shot it when I'm back at my own computer.

OldAl
03-17-2016, 08:41 PM
Used a predictor, it says 100% probability of J1a2a1a2 P58

OldAl
03-17-2016, 09:42 PM
8193

Screenshot

Agamemnon
03-17-2016, 10:15 PM
You should join the J1 FTDNA project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-M267/default.aspx?section=yresults) and wait for your assignment to a specific cluster.

OldAl
03-17-2016, 10:32 PM
You should join the J1 FTDNA project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-M267/default.aspx?section=yresults) and wait for your assignment to a specific cluster.

I already joined. I'm not exactly sure what my results mean, to be honest. Is there a chart I can use?

Agamemnon
03-17-2016, 10:33 PM
Which cluster did the admins put you in?

OldAl
03-17-2016, 10:36 PM
Which cluster did the admins put you in?

Sorry if these are dumb questions! It just says I'm already a member when I try to join.

Agamemnon
03-17-2016, 10:38 PM
Sorry if these are dumb questions! It just says I'm already a member when I try to join.

No need to apologise, I'm gonna find out ;)

OldAl
03-17-2016, 10:40 PM
No need, to apologise, I'm gonna find out ;)

Oh wonderful lol. Found myself, J-M9119 Cluster E. Kind of looks mostly Jewish, actually. Do you (or anyone) have any idea what this means?

OldAl
03-17-2016, 10:44 PM
For anyone interested, my paternal surname is originally Charalambous.

Agamemnon
03-17-2016, 10:51 PM
Oh wonderful lol. Found myself, J-M9119 Cluster E. Kind of looks mostly Jewish, actually. Do you (or anyone) have any idea what this means?

Yup, M9119 is a subclade of FGC8223 which, in turn, is a branch of J1-YSC76, which is a branch of L858, itself a sub-sbranch of YSC234 (YSC234>L858>YSC76>FGC8223>M9119), so I'd wager your ancestors have been Semitic speakers for a very long time considering the fact that YSC234 is the best candidate for the "Proto-Semitic marker" label and that L858 is its most succesful sub-branch... I tend to think the earliest Aramaic speakers carried YSC76, nevertheless this marker certainly has been in the Levant for a long time so anything is possible I guess. M9119's TMRCA is about 2300 years old and yes, this marker definitely is Jewish... Which undoubtedly suggests your paternal ancestors were Jewish, but are you sure you belong to this cluster? What's your kit number?

OldAl
03-17-2016, 11:01 PM
Yup, M9119 is a subclade of FGC8223 which, in turn, is a branch of J1-YSC76, which is a branch of L858, itself a sub-sbranch of YSC234 (YSC234>L858>YSC76>FGC8223>M9119), so I'd wager your ancestors have been Semitic speakers for a very long time considering the fact that YSC234 is the best candidate for the "Proto-Semitic marker" label and that L858 is its most succesful sub-branch... I tend to think the earliest Aramaic speakers carried YSC76, nevertheless this marker certainly has been in the Levant for a long time so anything is possible I guess. M9119's TMRCA is about 2300 years old and yes, this marker definitely is Jewish... Which undoubtedly suggests your paternal ancestors were Jewish, but are you sure you belong to this cluster? What's your kit number?

476239

Agamemnon
03-17-2016, 11:09 PM
476239

Hm, I can't actually see your kit for some odd reason... But hey, no reason to doubt what you're saying, so welcome to our tribe/ברוך הבא לשבט שלנו (baroukh haba' lashevet shelanou) :biggrin1: :biggrin1: :biggrin1:
I feel less lonely all of a sudden now that I know that I'm not the only J1-ewish guy on this forum anymore :lol:

OldAl
03-17-2016, 11:16 PM
Hm, I can't actually see your kit for some odd reason... But hey, no reason to doubt what you're saying, so welcome to our tribe/ברוך הבא לשבט שלנו (baroukh haba' lashevet shelanou) :biggrin1: :biggrin1: :biggrin1:
I feel less lonely all of a sudden now that I know that I'm not the only J1-ewish guy on this forum anymore :lol:

lol sounds good. So where would I be on a J1 tree? What would you call my Y-DNA haplogroup? Here's a screenshot btw

8197

OldAl
03-17-2016, 11:23 PM
It also looks like I have a couple of points of difference from the other people in the cluster, not sure how important that is.

Agamemnon
03-17-2016, 11:38 PM
lol sounds good. So where would I be on a J1 tree? What would you call my Y-DNA haplogroup? Here's a screenshot btw

8197

Your Y-DNA haplogroup is J1-M9119, if I were you I'd order M9119 on the haplotree (when it'll be available on FTDNA, because it isn't right now) just to confirm this beyond any reasonable doubt (individual SNPs cost around 30$). The best version of the J1 tree available is Victor Mas' tree (http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree), on his tree M9119's TMRCA is 2330 years old which fits rather well with the ~2300 yBP figure I mentioned. Here's FGC8223 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y3441/), which is directly upstream from M9119, on YFull. It seems M9119 isn't on YFull yet (not exactly an anomaly, like I said Victor Mas' tree is better).
What I find terribly intriguing about your results is the fact that you seem to fit in a seemingly Ashkenazi cluster, I find that intriguing because I strongly suspect Western Jewry (Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews) derive from Hellenistic Jewry - that is to say the Greek-speaking Jews who settled in the Aegean and Greek colonies around the Mediterranean - for the most part. So the most likely explanation is that the common ancestors of the earliest Ashkenazi and Sephardic communities can be traced back to places like Cyprus and other places in the Aegean, which would make a whole lot of sense from an autosomal standpoint.
It remains to be seen whether this theory of mine will be confirmed by M9119's phylogeny, if cluster E turns out to be a comparatively basal branch of M9119, that would clearly indicate that your branch is deeply rooted in Cyprus.
Either that or you have a recent Ashkenazi ancestor somewhere up your family tree, which I find rather unlikely TBH but never say never.

OldAl
03-17-2016, 11:42 PM
Your Y-DNA haplogroup is J1-M9119, if I were you I'd order M9119 on the haplotree (when it'll be available, because it isn't right now) just to confirm this beyond any reasonable doubt (individual SNPs cost around 30$). The best version of the J1 tree available is Victor Mas' tree (http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree), on his tree M9119's TMRCA is 2330 years old which fits rather well with the ~2300 yBP figure I mentioned. Here's FGC8223 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y3441/), which is directly upstream from M9119, on YFull. It seems M9119 isn't on YFull yet (not exactly an anomaly, like I said Victor Mas' tree is better).
What I find terribly intriguing about your results is the fact that you seem to fit in a seemingly Ashkenazi cluster, I find that intriguing because I strongly suspect Western Jewry (Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews) derive from Hellenistic Jewry - that is to say the Greek-speaking Jews who settled in the Aegean and Greek colonies around the Mediterranean - for the most part. So the most likely explanation is that the common ancestors of the earliest Ashkenazi and Sephardic communities can be traced back to places like Cyprus and other places in the Aegean, which would make a whole lot of sense from an autosomal standpoint.
It remains to be seen whether this theory of mine will be confirmed by M9119's phylogeny, if cluster E turns out to be a comparatively basal branch of M9119, that would clearly indicate that your branch is deeply rooted in Cyprus.
Either that or you have a recent Ashkenazi ancestor somewhere up your family tree, which I find rather unlikely TBH but never say never.

Exactly the reply I was looking for, thank you. There is no mention of any Jewish heritage in the family, and Ashkenazi ancestry seems very unlikely (nothing on 23andme). I have a feeling it's from the pre-Greek Cypriot population, but hey, what do I know?

Agamemnon
03-17-2016, 11:59 PM
Exactly the reply I was looking for, thank you. There is no mention of any Jewish heritage in the family, and Ashkenazi ancestry seems very unlikely (nothing on 23andme). I have a feeling it's from the pre-Greek Cypriot population, but hey, what do I know?

That's also what I thought, hopefully we'll know more about your specific cluster in the near future (Big Y will be needed for the unclustered individuals). While M9119 does appear to be overwhelmingly Jewish, as suggested by the rather late TMRCA date (which, ironically, corresponds with the emergence of Hellenistic rule in the Levant), other scenarios are possible. For instance, M9119's presence in Spain, while attributable to Sephardic Jewry, could equally be due to earlier immigration from the Levant to Iberia via the Carthaginian settlement of the area. M9119's forebears could've been Phoenician in origin, or even from the first Aramean city-states in Syria... And of course, it also could've been in Cyprus for a long time, even could've emerged there after arriving from neighbouring Phoenicia. These are just wild and crude theories at this stage, the problem here is the ~2200 year-old gap between M9119 and FGC8223.

King
03-18-2016, 12:03 AM
Edit: Never mind, you beat me to it.

OldAl
03-18-2016, 12:09 AM
Since YSC76 seems to be Levantine in origin, how about the possibility of a Phoenician ancestor?

Edit: Never mind, you beat me to it.

Well, regardless, since it seems to be found in Ashkenazi Jews as well, I'd assume it was in Cyprus prior to the Greek colonization of the island, but not after since it isn't Arab.

King
03-18-2016, 12:17 AM
Well, regardless, since it seems to be found in Ashkenazi Jews as well, I'd assume it was in Cyprus prior to the Greek colonization of the island, but not after since it isn't Arab.

How long ago was Greek colonization of Cyprus?

OldAl
03-18-2016, 12:22 AM
How long ago was Greek colonization of Cyprus?

Roughly 3000 years ago, but it was likely a somewhat slow process that started around 1100 BC and continued for a couple hundred years.

Agamemnon
03-18-2016, 12:25 AM
Well, regardless, since it seems to be found in Ashkenazi Jews as well, I'd assume it was in Cyprus prior to the Greek colonization of the island, but not after since it isn't Arab.

It also could've arrived with the first Jews who settled in Cyprus from the Levant, heck it's equally possible M9119 emerged in Judea... Like I said, the marker's phylogeny should infirm or confirm these scenarios.

wmehar
03-18-2016, 03:46 PM
I take it that submitting my grandfather's tooth would yield low likelihood of deriving useful DNA to analyse? I wanted to see what his Y-Haplogroup would have been since he's Cypriot-Greek. Haddjidemetriou was his family name.

OldAl
03-22-2016, 01:50 AM
I take it that submitting my grandfather's tooth would yield low likelihood of deriving useful DNA to analyse? I wanted to see what his Y-Haplogroup would have been since he's Cypriot-Greek. Haddjidemetriou was his family name.

Not a clue, I don't think so though. They wanted my saliva.

Pegasusphm1
05-06-2016, 11:55 PM
Your Y-DNA haplogroup is J1-M9119, if I were you I'd order M9119 on the haplotree (when it'll be available on FTDNA, because it isn't right now) just to confirm this beyond any reasonable doubt (individual SNPs cost around 30$). The best version of the J1 tree available is Victor Mas' tree (http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree), on his tree M9119's TMRCA is 2330 years old which fits rather well with the ~2300 yBP figure I mentioned. Here's FGC8223 (http://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y3441/), which is directly upstream from M9119, on YFull. It seems M9119 isn't on YFull yet (not exactly an anomaly, like I said Victor Mas' tree is better).
What I find terribly intriguing about your results is the fact that you seem to fit in a seemingly Ashkenazi cluster, I find that intriguing because I strongly suspect Western Jewry (Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews) derive from Hellenistic Jewry - that is to say the Greek-speaking Jews who settled in the Aegean and Greek colonies around the Mediterranean - for the most part. So the most likely explanation is that the common ancestors of the earliest Ashkenazi and Sephardic communities can be traced back to places like Cyprus and other places in the Aegean, which would make a whole lot of sense from an autosomal standpoint.
It remains to be seen whether this theory of mine will be confirmed by M9119's phylogeny, if cluster E turns out to be a comparatively basal branch of M9119, that would clearly indicate that your branch is deeply rooted in Cyprus.
Either that or you have a recent Ashkenazi ancestor somewhere up your family tree, which I find rather unlikely TBH but never say never.

Early works discuss Greek / Levant relationship. Spartans claims of Abraham. (1) Maccabees 12
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Maccabees+12&version=GNT

What I note about the above reference is their self described description, Spartans describe themselves not as Hellenized Jews from Alexander to Seleucid dynasties prior to the Maccabees revolt, but as Abraham? This of course leads to other theories related to the sea peoples, Dan etc. One thing I've always felt that economic lines of communication and commerce over centuries had a larger impact of genetic dispersion.

Agamemnon
05-07-2016, 12:35 AM
Early works discuss Greek / Levant relationship. Spartans claims of Abraham. (1) Maccabees 12
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Maccabees+12&version=GNT

What I note about the above reference is their self described description, Spartans describe themselves not as Hellenized Jews from Alexander to Seleucid dynasties prior to the Maccabees revolt, but as Abraham? This of course leads to other theories related to the sea peoples, Dan etc. One thing I've always felt that economic lines of communication and commerce over centuries had a larger impact of genetic dispersion.

Josephus also mentions this in his Antiquities (Book XII; Chapter IV, Verse 10):


At this time Seleucus, who was called Soter, reigned over Asia, being the son of Antiochus the Great. And [now] Hyrcanus's father, Joseph, died. He was a good man, and of great magnanimity; and brought the Jews out of a state of poverty and meanness, to one that was more splendid. He retained the farm of the taxes of Syria, and Phoenicia, and Samaria twenty-two years. His uncle also, Onias, died [about this time], and left the high priesthood to his son Simeon. And when he was dead, Onias his son succeeded him in that dignity. To him it was that Areus, king of the Lacedemonians, sent an embassage, with an epistle; the copy whereof here follows:
"Areus, King Of The Lacedemonians, To Onias, Sendeth Greeting.
"We have met with a certain writing, whereby we have discovered that both the Jews and the Lacedemonians are of one stock, and are derived from the kindred of Abraham 14 It is but just therefore that you, who are our brethren, should send to us about any of your concerns as you please. We will also do the same thing, and esteem your concerns as our own, and will look upon our concerns as in common with yours. Demoteles, who brings you this letter, will bring your answer back to us. This letter is four-square; and the seal is an eagle, with a dragon in his claws."

14:Whence it comes that these Lacedemonians declare themselves here to be of kin to the Jews, as derived from the same ancestor, Abraham, I cannot tell, unless, as Grotius supposes, they were derived from Dores, that came of the Pelasgi. These are by Herodotus called Barbarians, and perhaps were derived from the Syrians and Arabians, the posterity of Abraham by Keturah. See Antiq. B. XIV. ch. 10. sect. 22; and Of the War, B. I. ch. 26. sect. l; and Grot. on 1 Macc. 12:7. We may further observe from the Recognitions of Clement, that Eliezer, of Damascus, the servant of Abraham, Genesis 15:2; 24., was of old by some taken for his son. So that if the Lacedemonians were sprung from him, they might think themselves to be of the posterity of Abraham, as well as the Jews, who were sprung from Isaac. And perhaps this Eliezer of Damascus is that very Damascus whom Trogus Pompeius, as abridged by Justin, makes the founder of the Jewish nation itself, though he afterwards blunders, and makes Azelus, Adores, Abraham, and Israel kings of Judea, and successors to this Damascus. It may not be improper to observe further, that Moses Chorenensis, in his history of the Armenians, informs us, that the nation of the Parthians was also derived from Abraham by Keturah and her children.

Personally I tend to assume that claims of common descent were conventional diplomatic talk back then, if the Spartans were to justify this claim they'd probably point to their descent from Heracles and equate him with Samson. Alternatively, this could be some sort of very distant memory related to the Sea Peoples, who were Aegean in origin after all, but it doesn't really seem likely because we're dealing with the Spartans here.

Pegasusphm1
05-07-2016, 03:34 AM
Josephus also mentions this in his Antiquities (Book XII; Chapter IV, Verse 10):



14:Whence it comes that these Lacedemonians declare themselves here to be of kin to the Jews, as derived from the same ancestor, Abraham, I cannot tell, unless, as Grotius supposes, they were derived from Dores, that came of the Pelasgi. These are by Herodotus called Barbarians, and perhaps were derived from the Syrians and Arabians, the posterity of Abraham by Keturah. See Antiq. B. XIV. ch. 10. sect. 22; and Of the War, B. I. ch. 26. sect. l; and Grot. on 1 Macc. 12:7. We may further observe from the Recognitions of Clement, that Eliezer, of Damascus, the servant of Abraham, Genesis 15:2; 24., was of old by some taken for his son. So that if the Lacedemonians were sprung from him, they might think themselves to be of the posterity of Abraham, as well as the Jews, who were sprung from Isaac. And perhaps this Eliezer of Damascus is that very Damascus whom Trogus Pompeius, as abridged by Justin, makes the founder of the Jewish nation itself, though he afterwards blunders, and makes Azelus, Adores, Abraham, and Israel kings of Judea, and successors to this Damascus. It may not be improper to observe further, that Moses Chorenensis, in his history of the Armenians, informs us, that the nation of the Parthians was also derived from Abraham by Keturah and her children.

Personally I tend to assume that claims of common descent were conventional diplomatic talk back then, if the Spartans were to justify this claim they'd probably point to their descent from Heracles and equate him with Samson. Alternatively, this could be some sort of very distant memory related to the Sea Peoples, who were Aegean in origin after all, but it doesn't really seem likely because we're dealing with the Spartans here.

Distant memory interesting, there is that Mycenaean tomb at Tel Dan.

OldAl
05-11-2016, 10:58 PM
Important update in new thread, long story short my direct paternal line comes from Lesbos, not Cyprus. More details when they're found out will be provided.

Robvg197
05-14-2016, 02:28 PM
Important update in new thread, long story short my direct paternal line comes from Lesbos, not Cyprus. More details when they're found out will be provided.

Hi OldAl, I recommend you to test J-M9119 or take the J1-SNP Pack from FTDNA, perhaps it will shed more light on your ancestry. Knowing that you were from Cyprus initially made me think you could be FGC8216+ as myself, I am from Sicily. Cyprus was a major copper mining area and this particular haplogroup J1-FGC8216 seems to be associated with it.

Regards

Roberto

Yaroslav
05-19-2016, 04:25 PM
Hi OldAl!

Congratulations with the results!

Would you mind to make your haplotype public? Since only the J1 Project members can see it.

To do this enter Manage Personal Information at your page at FTDNA > Privacy & Sharing and in section My DNA Results in the question Who can view my DNA results in group projects? set Make my mtDNA & Y-DNA data public.

OldAl
05-20-2016, 09:09 PM
Hi OldAl!

Congratulations with the results!

Would you mind to make your haplotype public? Since only the J1 Project members can see it.

To do this enter Manage Personal Information at your page at FTDNA > Privacy & Sharing and in section My DNA Results in the question Who can view my DNA results in group projects? set Make my mtDNA & Y-DNA data public.

Just made it public.