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Reza
01-26-2016, 10:48 PM
Just received some preliminary results on my y-dna testing from yseq on the Z93 panel.

I seem to be Y40+.

Anyone have any further information on that? Parasar your input would be appreciated!

lgmayka
01-26-2016, 11:29 PM
Here is YFull's R-Y40 haplotree (http://yfull.com/tree/R-Y40/). Notice that a couple of Bengalis from Bangladesh are in the Y37 subclade.

parasar
01-27-2016, 12:02 AM
Just received some preliminary results on my y-dna testing from yseq on the Z93 panel.

I seem to be Y40+.

Anyone have any further information on that? Parasar your input would be appreciated!
Y40 is one of the three main Z93 lines in South Asia. Parallel to M780-L657 and Z2125.
The origin of all three along with parent Z94 is likely near the Volga though the larger Khazar steppe zone is also quite possible.

Z2125 has Eurasian ditribution. L657 is limited mainly to South Asia and nearby. Y40 is seen up to Italy.

Reza
01-27-2016, 12:21 AM
Thank you guys.

On the likely assumption that I'm Y40 > Y37+, it appears to be represented in Gujarati and Punjabi samples too, so fairly widespread throughout the subcontinent? Is there any geographic distribution to the subclades?

Did Y40 enter the subcontinent together with L657 and Z2125 or might there have been different waves?

Also, a very basic question, but what do str results represent? Hopefully should receive the downstream markers soon. It looks like they test for Y39/M560 (Y37) and Y40 as well as YP294 and Z96.

parasar
01-28-2016, 02:06 AM
Thank you guys.

On the likely assumption that I'm Y40 > Y37+, it appears to be represented in Gujarati and Punjabi samples too, so fairly widespread throughout the subcontinent? Is there any geographic distribution to the subclades?

Did Y40 enter the subcontinent together with L657 and Z2125 or might there have been different waves?

Also, a very basic question, but what do str results represent? Hopefully should receive the downstream markers soon. It looks like they test for Y39/M560 (Y37) and Y40 as well as YP294 and Z96.

STRs are pretty much like SNPs, the repeats just mutate more often on average per site. But with full scans available STRs have limited utility.
You will likely be Y37+ Z96- Z667-YP294-
Y41+or-ve is impossible to predict as Bangalis from Dacca have both.

IMO, a single wave, due to their pan-subcontinental distributions.

Reza
02-26-2016, 08:56 PM
STRs are pretty much like SNPs, the repeats just mutate more often on average per site. But with full scans available STRs have limited utility.
You will likely be Y37+ Z96- Z667-YP294-
Y41+or-ve is impossible to predict as Bangalis from Dacca have both.

IMO, a single wave, due to their pan-subcontinental distributions.

So I finally got my results from YSEQ.

Y40*

Surprisingly Y37- and as to be expected YP294- (and therefore downstream assumed Z96-)

Interestingly the final marker is S27168 G+ as well as Y40 T+. Is that another of the Y40 defining markers? Or is it a further downstream marker?

Noone is registered as Y40* on yfull - given the S27168 +ve marker, is that theoretically a new branch?

Michał
02-27-2016, 07:42 PM
Interestingly the final marker is S27168 G+ as well as Y40 T+. Is that another of the Y40 defining markers? Or is it a further downstream marker?
Noone is registered as Y40* on yfull - given the S27168 +ve marker, is that theoretically a new branch?
S27268 was first identified in haplogroup R1b (in subclade Y18435 under DF13), so it seems that this is a recurrent mutation. In this particular case, it can be either your private mutation or a mutation defining a larger group of Y-DNA lineages under Y40, with the latter option including even a new subclade just under Y40. It would be useful to have your STR haplotype tested (preferably at FTDNA), so we could evaluate how frequent similar haplotypes are among the people tested so far.

Reza
02-28-2016, 12:44 AM
S27268 was first identified in haplogroup R1b (in subclade Y18435 under DF13), so it seems that this is a recurrent mutation. In this particular case, it can be either your private mutation or a mutation defining a larger group of Y-DNA lineages under Y40, with the latter option including even a new subclade just under Y40. It would be useful to have your STR haplotype tested (preferably at FTDNA), so we could evaluate how frequent similar haplotypes are among the people tested so far.

Thanks Michal.

Presumably the higher number of STR markers the better - not sure I can afford to get the top end tests at present, but hopefully soon.

Given the relative paucity of Y40+ individuals, do you think it'll shed much light on the matter, and even less likely for me to find a match? How would you go about checking to see if it's a new subclade?

Michał
02-28-2016, 11:06 AM
Presumably the higher number of STR markers the better
This is correct.



Given the relative paucity of Y40+ individuals, do you think it'll shed much light on the matter, and even less likely for me to find a match?
Well, South Asia (including India) is a huge potential market for DNA testing, and Y40 seems to constitute a significant fraction of the South Asian Y-DNA lineages, so we may expect that the number of available Y40 STR haplotypes will grow substantially in the near future.


How would you go about checking to see if it's a new subclade?
After finding similar haplotypes (including the so-called STR matches) among the FTDNA customers, we will need to contact them and encourage to order relevant SNP tests (including Big Y, ie.the most advanced and most useful Y-DNA SNP test offered by FTDNA).

Arame
05-10-2017, 08:10 AM
Can be this branch related to Nuristani languages?

Coldmountains
05-21-2017, 08:37 PM
Can be this branch related to Nuristani languages?

Interesting question. Nuristani seem to be rich in R1a but we know nothing about their subclades yet. Y40 seems to be frequent among Burusho who live not so far away. My feeling is that Nuristani are mainly Z2124 with some Y40 and L657 because Kalash are also Z2124 and Nuristani heavily influenced Kalash. Today they look like an ancient relic population, which lives since the Bronze Age in Nuristan, but actually we dont know where they lived 2000 or 3000 years ago. The region experienced many partial population replacements and movements in the last 4000 years. Nuristani languages represent a third branch of Indo-Iranian languages but they seem to share more linguistic feautures with Iranic languages.


Nuristânis constitute a linguistic group as well as a geographic one. Within the Indo-European linguistic family the Nuristâni languages form a third sub-group of the Indo-Iranian group, alongside the Iranian and Indo-Âryan sub-groups. Speakers of the precursors of the Nuristâni languages appear to have been on the outer edge of the wave of Âryan expansion that placed the Iranian-speaking peoples in their present locations. These proto-Nuristânis participated in most of the processes that differentiated the speech of the early Âryas (Indo-Iranians) from that of other Indo-Europeans, but they did not participate with the Âryas in the backing of ancient *s after *u. They later assimilated the strongly fronted accent of the Iranian speakers, which precluded the whispery-voicing of the earlier consonants *bh, *dh, and *gh, and they adopted the characteristic Iranian dentalizing of ancient palatalized *k and *g to *ć and *ź. But they did not participate in the later spirantizing and deaffrication processes that characterize the consonant systems of the recorded Iranian languages. Having been initially out of range of the Indo-Âryan side of the Âryan expansion, the proto-Nuristânis subsequently entered the Indo-Âryan sphere and participated in many of the Middle Indo-Âryan changes that characterize the Northwestern Indo-Âryan languages, such as the loss of intervocalic stop consonants and the simplification of intervocalic consonant clusters. In the millennium since the Nuristânis entered Nuristân, those in northern Nuristân have assimilated processes from the neighboring Iranian languages across the Hindu Kush, while those in southern Nuristân have remained closer to the Indo-Âryan languages to the south (see the linguistic map). Since the Afghân conquest of Nuristân, Nuristânis have been assimilating thousands of "Islamic" words of Arab and Persian origin into their lexicons, to the detriment of many ancient traditional terms. Further details appear here
History: Earlier investigators surmised that the ancestors of the Nuristânis were the first Indo-Europeans to enter the region of the Hindu Kush from Central Asia, and as later Indo-Âryas followed, the early Nuristânis were gradually pushed back into their present homes.1 These investigators were unaware of the oral traditions of most Nuristâni groups that placed them around the region of Kâma, at the northeast side of the confluence of the Kâbul and Kunar Rivers, until a thousand years ago.2 According to such traditions, they came from Kandahâr to Kâbul to Kâpisa to Kâma, being pushed by the onslaught of Islâm. Such accounts agree with the linguistic scenario sketched above, which posits that the Nuristânis were earlier on the edge of the Iranian-speaking world and only later encountered the Indo-Âryan sphere of influence. By their own account the Nuristânis were late arrivals in the region.

khanabadoshi
05-21-2017, 08:52 PM
Interesting question. Nuristani seem to be rich in R1a but we know nothing about their subclades yet. Y40 seems to be frequent among Burusho who live not so far away. My feeling is that Nuristani are mainly Z2124 with some Y40 and L657 because Kalash are also Z2124 and Nuristani heavily influenced Kalash. Today they look like an ancient relic population, which lives since the Bronze Age in Nuristan, but actually we dont know where they lived 2000 or 3000 years ago. The region experienced many partial population replacements and movements in the last 4000 years. Nuristani languages represent a third branch of Indo-Iranian languages but they seem to share more linguistic feautures with Iranic languages.

Do we not have any Nuristanis sampled?

Coldmountains
05-21-2017, 09:03 PM
Do we not have any Nuristanis sampled?

They tested 5 Nuristani (3x R1a) here http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0034288. I dont know of any other Nuristani dna results and i dont have much hope we will get much more in the near future. It would be cool if someone could find someone of Nuristani origin living in the West who would do some snp/str testing on YSEQ or ftdna.

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DMXX
05-21-2017, 09:03 PM
The only Nuristani data we have is from Haber et al. 2012. But it's Y-STR's, not Y-SNP's.

That being said, there's a GD=4-5 between all three Nuristani R1a1a's, across both slow and fast mutating STR sites. They look like unrelated branches to me.

khanabadoshi
05-22-2017, 01:28 AM
They tested 5 Nuristani (3x R1a) here http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0034288. I dont know of any other Nuristani dna results and i dont have much hope we will get much more in the near future. It would be cool if someone could find someone of Nuristani origin living in the West who would do some snp/str testing on YSEQ or ftdna.

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Well if anyone knows a Nuristani, I'll send a kit. Surprising that the Kalash and Burusho have been tested so much and everyone around them -- the Nuristanis, Kho, Shina -- so little. I contacted a gentleman who has around 20 samples of people from the Northern Areas of Pakistan, ie. Shina, Kho, Kalash, Burusho, he may have some Kohistanis and others as well, but he has only uploaded a few to Gedmatch. He is in some tussle with FTDNA regarding the pricing of testing the remaining samples. I should keep bothering him LOL. I don't know if he has any Afghan samples.