View Full Version : J1-FGC6064 SNP has finally been included in the minimal Phylotree Y tree

01-27-2016, 06:41 PM
My J1 FGC6064 SNP has finally been included in the minimal Phylotree Y tree http://www.phylotree.org/Y/
We can make a lot of difference as genetic genealogists because we discovered 188 new SNPs in my Full Genomes test (FGC5987-FGC6175). How a Brazilian researcher can discover an extremely ancient J1 SNP (15000 years old) presumed from the Caspian Sea, Northern Iran, Eastern Anatolia, Central Asia and Northern Near Eastern if nobody tested or has been interested in detailed J1 SNPs from that nearby cradle regions. J1 was born in those Northern regions and moved to the other places. J1 has never been Semitic in the origins and only a subset of relatively recent and derived types of J1 can be found in big frequencies with the Southern Semitic languages, not the Northern J1 basal branches, some were Indo-European speakers for a long time, perhaps since early Proto-Indo-Europeans time what depends on the Ancient Iranian J1 types to be investigated. We have nine Atlantic FGC6064+ M365+ haplotypes in FTDNA (even not recognized by FTDNA lazy phylogenetic tree). 7 Portuguese, one Galician-Spaniard close to the Portuguese border and one English from Devon in our Western European J1-M365 Project. We have other FGC6064+ and M365 negative in the J-M365 project. We have some Northern Iranian STR matches and one distant STR haplotype from the Persian Gulf with Iranian origins as M365+. YFull calculated the age of FGC6064 as 15000 years before present and now we have the first comparison between two Portuguese individuals estimated at a distance of 1250 years.
We have a relatively big Portuguese cluster with a star-like expansion following the expansion and growth of the Portuguese Empire in the last 1000 years, one of the biggest populational growth in the world with the conquest and colonization of Brazil. Little Portugal emerged as a National State, Catholic with a single ethnie, culture and language after the Reconquista soon incorporating different ethnic groups in the miscegenation process. The individuality of Portugal can also be seen in the demographic Y-DNA stock different from the other regions of Iberia. This relatively big organized Portuguese J1 cluster expanded a lot in the last 1000 years and is completely different from Arab-Moor Islamic, Sephardi-Jew and Castilian-Spaniard types. In my case we are Cristãos Velhos in the male line. I calculated around 0,4-0,5% of the total Portuguese Y-DNA stock what would be 500.000 male individuals in the former Portuguese empire belonging to this cluster. Not every Portuguese haplotype expanded in the last 1000 years. We can find several types of Portuguese R1b, G2, I2, J2, J1 types without 67 or 111 STR matches in this period. So, only empirical investigations can make scientific advancements.

01-29-2016, 12:49 AM
New results. Yildiz, kit 415402 - Turkey is also FGC6064+ and he is matching several SNPs in the same lineage of Kitching, kit 381875 - England. Both don't have absolutely no STR matches at any level. Another very ancient line.

J1 DYS388=13
01-29-2016, 09:10 AM
415402 has also joined the "Adyghe" project. Maybe he thinks he's from the north.
Project Goals
The Adyghe or Adygs (Adyghe: Адыгэ or Adǝgă, Arabic: شركس/جركس‎), also often known as Circassians, are a North Caucasian and European nation and an ethnic group who belong to one of the oldest indigenous peoples of the Caucasus and are among the original inhabitants of the Caucasus.

01-29-2016, 01:27 PM
He joined several projects.

07-02-2016, 09:18 PM
We have our Portuguese J1-FGC6064+, M365+ cluster already well established and dated by YFull, with two individuals YF01554 and YF04781, around or long before the creation of the Kingdom of Portugal in 1140 AD, TMRCA 1250 ybp, just before the chaotic and violent year 1000 AD in NW Iberia. I think this cluster most probably had a founding point, a point of beginning or at least a good opportunity since the first Western Iberian polity in the Suebic Kingdom, Regnum Suevorum - 450 AD, because it looks like to be one of the biggest Portuguese clans formed in the last 1000 years, as we can observe the rate, proportions and the structure of the matches at several databases. The Portuguese Y-DNA population expanded a lot starting from a very small population in the last 1000 years, just like the Portuguese language with the Reconquista and the Seaborne Empire in Brazil. They are one of the few Portuguese cases at FTDNA found with four Portuguese only 67 markers matches and some other Portuguese 67 matches around the genetic distance of 8 or more in 67 in relation to the samples available, what is more than 0,5% of the total. It's interesting because we have R1b-DF27 as the biggest haplogroup in Portugal with approximately 40% but they usually don't have numerous clans with only 1000 years, but a big number of ancient ramifications after 4000-3000 years with limited matches at only 1000 years and without FTDNA 67 matches or only one or exceptionally two. After the Western Iberian J1 FGC6064-M365 cluster the next neighbour is a small English cluster from Devon and now we are going to know the SNPs and age of the bifurcation because we have a new Big Y from one original English member, kit B65624 from Australia. As I have found important STR matches from the Iranian Caspian region, Gilakis matching this Portuguese cluster, I keep the alliance between the Suebis and the Iranian Alans as the possible source of this cluster in Western Europe and Western Iberia. Unfortunately no reseach with NGS has been published from Northern Iranian haplogroups what would show the distribution of FGC6064 and M365 there. The English cluster and the Portuguese cluster are sharing exclusively at last: FGC6165, FGC6158, FGC6146, FGC6143, FGC6137, FGC6133, FGC6090, FGC6088, FGC6081, FGC6073, FGC6071, FGC6070, FGC6037, FGC6033, FGC6019. We need the BAM.file and also YFull analysis. We have my original FGC NGS and five FTDNA J1-FGC6064 Big Y results: One English-Leeds, one Turkish-Eastern Anatolian, one Qatari from the Persian Gulf-Iranian origins, one Portuguese and now the English-Devon case.

Ricardo Costa de Oliveira
J-FGC6064 and M365 Project not present in FTDNA's haplotree after several years of research.

09-14-2016, 12:38 PM
In the last version of YFull tree 4.08 FGC6064 has been estimated to be 15000 years old.
Now we have the Big Y results from another English individual from Devon YF06756 with a new subgroup FGC6031 formed 14500 ybp, TMRCA 5500 ybp separating the Portuguese cluster and the English individual.
I still think the cradle of our J1 FGC6064 will be found around the Caspian Sea but we can also think if FGC6031 has been possibly in Western Atlantic Europe from a long time ago.

We would need to investigate the Gilaki Iranian haplotypes matching our Western European J1's with STR matches in terms of SNPs full sequences, but nobody has still investigated Northern Iranian J1's with Y-DNA NGS. That's a taboo there.

10-30-2016, 12:31 AM
By 2006 I discovered I was J1 and positive to M365. A thousand years ago Iberia was divided into three different religions and now we know divided into different types of J1 as well. The Christians won the war in Iberia and the Catholic Kingdom of Portugal won the war in Western Iberia. I belong to a male line of Cristãos Velhos - Old Christians shaped by the Portuguese National State first and then by the worldwide Portuguese Empire. After ten years of intense and extremely difficult research we know the STR and SNPs of our very ancient J1 line. I discovered with my FGC test our own J1 Paleolithic line estimated to be 15000 years old, what few genetic genealogists could dare to do as a project ten years ago. We are beggining to discover some very ancient J1-FGC6064 nodes in Western Asia and in Western Europe. The Portuguese-Brazilian cluster has been the most investigated with a very good expansion in the last 1000 years of wars and moving frontiers and one easily recognizable ethnohistorical cluster with defined STR modal and SNPs. I also discovered the existence of matches in Northern Iran, a Caspian cluster and some European dispersed cases. Now we have an original English from Devon J1-M365 at YFull with an estimated TMRCA of 5500 years in relation to our Portuguese cluster. If our common ancestor 5500 years ago had already arrived in Atlantic Western Europe he could be related to some movements and migrations associated with the Atlantic Megalithism, just before Bell Beakers and the big R1b-P312 expansion. Perhaps our ancestor could be from a small Neolithic wave related to the early navigation, early boats and Atlantic fisheries or seafood because our group has been found only close to the Atlantic in Western Iberia and Devon. If our groups arrived independently in Western Europe in any other maritime movements we would need more elements and differents matches to know, what we don't have right now. We still need to test Northern Iranian J1 types with STR matches to our results but in terms of NGS-Y DNA to understand the TMRCA between our Western European groups and the Caspian groups. Unfortunately no Iranian J1 samples have ever been tested with FGC6064 and no full Iranian Y DNA sequences are available, with the isolated exception of Darwish FTDNA#M9697, from the Persian Gulf, 9000-10000 years of distance. There's a taboo or impediment to investigate Iranian and Caspian haplogroups via NGS what would elucidate lots of questions. If we can get NGS-SNPs and Iranian matches with the European groups we still can think in the Alans as a possible source of the dispersion of some types of J1 to Western Iberia.


1- SNPs of Anatolian, Iranian and European lines: J-FGC6064 FGC6064 Y19466 FGC5993 FGC6067 FGC6102 FGC6065. Formed 15000 ybp, TMRCA 14500 ybp

2 - SNPs of the Iranian Persian Gulf Qatari and the Western European lines: M365, FGC6020, FGC6027-FGC6031, FGC6034, FGC6036, FGC6044, FGC6045, FGC6048, FGC6051, FGC6057, FGC6068, FGC6069, FGC6076, FGC6080, FGC6096, FGC6098, FGC6099, FGC6101, FGC6103, FGC6104, FGC6112, FGC6113, FGC6115, FGC6118, FGC6125-FGC6127, FGC6130, FGC6141, FGC6142, FGC6144, FGC6145, FGC6150, FGC6153, FGC6156, FGC6159, FGC6167, FGC6169, FGC6170, FGC6174
By YFull - J-FGC6031 ZS4173 FGC6117 FGC6174 FGC6167 FGC6031 FGC6038 FGC6126 FGC6153 FGC6080 FGC6113 FGC6060 FGC8030 ZS4152 • FGC8032 FGC6073 FGC6137 FGC6130 M365.1 • M365.4 • M365.2 • M365 • M365.3 FGC6125 FGC5989 ZS4129 FGC6027 FGC6103 FGC6114 FGC6150 FGC6119 FGC6096 FGC6033 FGC6048 FGC6170 FGC6088 FGC6081 FGC6158 FGC6169 FGC6071 FGC6124 FGC6143 FGC6069 FGC6118 FGC6127 FGC6018 FGC6165 FGC6159 FGC6149 FGC6141 FGC6057 FGC6091 FGC6029 FGC6144 FGC6151 ZS4130 FGC6030 FGC6104 FGC6156 FGC6099 FGC6136 FGC6123 FGC6076 FGC6133 ZS4148 FGC6084 FGC6045 FGC6028 FGC6112 FGC6044 FGC6034 FGC6142 FGC6068 FGC6023 FGC6020 FGC6098 FGC6074 FGC6120 FGC6070 FGC6037 FGC6101 FGC6146 FGC6145 FGC6019 FGC6090 FGC6115 FGC6036 FGC6055

3 - SNPs of the Western European lines from England-Devon and Portugal: FGC5987-FGC6019, FGC6021-FGC6026, FGC6032, FGC6033, FGC6035, FGC6037-FGC6043, FGC6046, FGC6047, FGC6049, FGC6050, FGC6052- FGC6056, FGC6058-FGC6063, FGC6065-FGC6067, FGC6070-FGC6075, FGC6077-FGC6079, FGC6081-FGC6095, FGC6097, FGC6100, FGC6102, FGC6105-FGC6111, FGC6114, FGC6116, FGC6117, FGC6119-FGC6124, FGC6128, FGC6129, FGC6131-FGC6140, FGC6143, FGC6146-FGC6149, FGC6151, FGC6152, FGC6154, FGC6155, FGC6157, FGC6158, FGC6160- FGC6166, FGC6168, FGC6171-FGC6173, FGC6175

4 - SNP's of the Portuguese Sousa Lara and Ricardo Costa de Oliveira's line: J-Y19467 FGC6041 FGC6109 Y19468 FGC6040 FGC6035 FGC6085 FGC6107 FGC6026 FGC5992 FGC6168 FGC6066 FGC6025 Y19467 FGC6128 FGC6166 FGC6132 FGC6024 FGC5988 FGC5990 FGC6083 FGC6032 FGC6139 FGC6075 FGC6111 FGC6147 FGC8031 FGC6097 FGC6095 FGC6077 FGC6056 FGC6157 FGC6039 FGC6094 FGC6134 FGC6047. Formed 5500 ybp, TMRCA 1250 ybp

5 - SNPs private of Ricardo Costa de Oliveira's FGC#F7S61A; FTDNA#73612 line: FGC6046 FGC6053 FGC6062 FGC6078 FGC6082 FGC6131

We observed a YHRD 17/16 match between a Brazilian haplotype and an Iranian Caspian haplotype, what confirms the regularity of the Portuguese-Brazilian cluster and the Iranian cluster in different databases.
Location - 19 389i 389ii 390 391 392 393 385 438 439 437 448 456 458 635 GATA h4
Rasht Gilaki Iran 15 13 29 22 10 11 13 12-20 10 11 14 20 15 18.2 21 10
Mato Grosso do Sul, Brazil 15 13 29 22 10 11 13 12-19 10 11 14 20 15 18.2 21 10

https://www.academia.edu/5889836/Western_European_J1-M365_position_in_the_J1_haplogroup_Y_chromosome_ph ylogenetic_tree

So we still urgently need NGS of the Northern Iranian J1-FGC6064 M365 cases.

Ricardo Costa de Oliveira

10-30-2016, 12:50 AM
Very interesting, congrats for the research.