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Afshar
02-15-2016, 06:27 PM
Is there any ydna or autosomal data available from this province? Please share

Caspian
02-15-2016, 07:53 PM
There is a y-dna distribution of Persians from Khorasan in the Grugni et al. 2012 paper.

22% R1a
17% J2
13.6% G2a (11.9% G2a + 1.7% G1)
6.8% R1b
6.8% J1
6.8% Q (5.1% Q1b1 + 1.7% Q1)
5.1% T
3.4% L1a2 (old L1c)
3.4% E1b1b1a1a
3.4% R2
3.4% H1a
3.4% R*
3.4% O
1.7% R1*

N=59
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9ItFg3ZDOCc/UAfrJKKY7aI/AAAAAAAAFC8/WQfxUO6_9Vw/s1600/journal.pone.0041252.t001.jpg

Persians are the dominant people of Khorasan region for hundreds of years. Therefore this distribution can give some idea to you about y-dna of this region.

Caspian
02-15-2016, 08:18 PM
There is another y-dna distribution about Persians from Khorasan (Eastern Iran)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pbgP_5AOnms/UL8R8ENDD8I/AAAAAAAAH1I/9w_1e4eSRzI/s1600/iranian_tajik_kurd.png

R1a, J2, G2a and L seems the most common y-dna haplogroups of Khorasan region in this paper.

Caspian
02-15-2016, 08:28 PM
R1a is common y-dna haplogroup among Eastern Persians while R1b is common among Western Persians. R1b conquared mostly Western Iran while R1a conquared mostly Eastern Iran if both of them were Proto Indo-Iranians.

Kurd
02-15-2016, 11:27 PM
There is another y-dna distribution about Persians from Khorasan (Eastern Iran)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pbgP_5AOnms/UL8R8ENDD8I/AAAAAAAAH1I/9w_1e4eSRzI/s1600/iranian_tajik_kurd.png

R1a, J2, G2a and L seems the most common y-dna haplogroups of Khorasan region in this paper.

The Kurd sample here is clearly not representative of Kurds, as it is showing 0% R1a for Kurds.

Kurds have one of the highest R1a percentages for groups in Iran.

The 1st reference you cited (Grugni et al) seems to have a more accurate Y distribution for Kurds, as it shows 20.3% R1a1a which is more in line with other references I have seen.

Edit: The Eastern Iran (Khorasan) sample may have included Kurds also, since according to the Cultural Society of Khorasani Kurds http://cskk.org/ there are about 1.5 million Kurds there, which would translate to approx 25% of the population of Khorasan

Afshar
02-16-2016, 04:54 AM
The kurds are relatively newcomers to the area. I am actually looking for some Native Persian ydna/autosomal data.

jesus
02-16-2016, 05:29 AM
They score Higher south Asian/South central asian than other Iranians/Kurds. Sometimes more Euro/Asian and less Anatolian farmer/near east.


Persian from Gorgan, a transitional area between the Caspian sea region and Khorasan.

Punt K12


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus_HG 44.17
2 Anatolian_NF 19.31
3 South_Asian 13.84
4 Near_East 13.11
5 European_HG 4.94
6 East_Asian 1.78
7 Siberian 1.41
8 South_African_HG 0.66
9 Sub-Saharan 0.65
10 Oceanian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian 7.19
2 Kurdish 11.7
3 Turkish 13.74
4 Georgian_Jew 15.97
5 Kumyk 16.29
6 Afghan_Pashtun 16.37
7 Laz 16.72
8 Turkish_Trabzon 17
9 Turkish_Kayseri 17.1
10 Chechen 17.15
11 Assyrian 17.57
12 Iranian_Jew 17.91
13 Armenian 18.04
14 North_Ossetian 18.29
15 Balkar 19.62
16 Adygei 20.04
17 Balochi 20.36
18 Abkhasian 20.66
19 Makrani 21.05
20 Pakistan_Pashtun 21.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% Georgian_Jew + 35.7% Burusho @ 1.98
2 80.5% Iranian + 19.5% Burusho @ 2
3 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Pathan @ 2.45
4 82% Iranian + 18% Kashmir @ 2.57
5 80.2% Iranian + 19.8% Pathan @ 2.7
6 81.4% Iranian + 18.6% Sindhi @ 2.72
7 87.2% Iranian + 12.8% Bengali_Muslim @ 2.74
8 56.1% Makrani + 43.9% Cypriot @ 2.81
9 82.2% Iranian + 17.8% Punjabi_Jatt_Muslim @ 2.91
10 80.4% Iranian + 19.6% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 2.99
11 76.4% Iranian + 23.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.06
12 66.1% Georgian_Jew + 33.9% Kashmir @ 3.08
13 84.3% Iranian + 15.7% UP_Muslim @ 3.16
14 88.2% Iranian + 11.8% Keralam @ 3.19
15 81.9% Iranian + 18.1% Haryana_Jatt @ 3.21
16 86.9% Iranian + 13.1% Gujarati @ 3.22
17 57.4% Georgian_Jew + 42.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.25
18 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 3.28
19 57.1% Afghan_Pashtun + 42.9% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.28
20 71.6% Iranian + 28.4% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.33


Some info about Old Gorgani dialect:


Gorgani, a dialect of Mazanderani language, was formerly spoken in the city, but it is extinct now, and only several of its words have remained in the accent of the Persian-speakers of the city.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgan#Demographics

Map of Gorgan

http://www.worldatlas.com/img/locator/city/093/11593-gorgan-locator-map.jpg

jesus
02-16-2016, 05:31 AM
R1a is common y-dna haplogroup among Eastern Persians while R1b is common among Western Persians. R1b conquared mostly Western Iran while R1a conquared mostly Eastern Iran if both of them were Proto Indo-Iranians.

Same applies to the certian areas in the south, R1a is more common than R1b.

Afshar
02-16-2016, 01:42 PM
They score Higher south Asian/South central asian than other Iranians/Kurds. Sometimes more Euro/Asian and less Anatolian farmer/near east.


Persian from Gorgan, a transitional area between the Caspian sea region and Khorasan.

Punt K12


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus_HG 44.17
2 Anatolian_NF 19.31
3 South_Asian 13.84
4 Near_East 13.11
5 European_HG 4.94
6 East_Asian 1.78
7 Siberian 1.41
8 South_African_HG 0.66
9 Sub-Saharan 0.65
10 Oceanian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian 7.19
2 Kurdish 11.7
3 Turkish 13.74
4 Georgian_Jew 15.97
5 Kumyk 16.29
6 Afghan_Pashtun 16.37
7 Laz 16.72
8 Turkish_Trabzon 17
9 Turkish_Kayseri 17.1
10 Chechen 17.15
11 Assyrian 17.57
12 Iranian_Jew 17.91
13 Armenian 18.04
14 North_Ossetian 18.29
15 Balkar 19.62
16 Adygei 20.04
17 Balochi 20.36
18 Abkhasian 20.66
19 Makrani 21.05
20 Pakistan_Pashtun 21.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% Georgian_Jew + 35.7% Burusho @ 1.98
2 80.5% Iranian + 19.5% Burusho @ 2
3 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Pathan @ 2.45
4 82% Iranian + 18% Kashmir @ 2.57
5 80.2% Iranian + 19.8% Pathan @ 2.7
6 81.4% Iranian + 18.6% Sindhi @ 2.72
7 87.2% Iranian + 12.8% Bengali_Muslim @ 2.74
8 56.1% Makrani + 43.9% Cypriot @ 2.81
9 82.2% Iranian + 17.8% Punjabi_Jatt_Muslim @ 2.91
10 80.4% Iranian + 19.6% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 2.99
11 76.4% Iranian + 23.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.06
12 66.1% Georgian_Jew + 33.9% Kashmir @ 3.08
13 84.3% Iranian + 15.7% UP_Muslim @ 3.16
14 88.2% Iranian + 11.8% Keralam @ 3.19
15 81.9% Iranian + 18.1% Haryana_Jatt @ 3.21
16 86.9% Iranian + 13.1% Gujarati @ 3.22
17 57.4% Georgian_Jew + 42.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.25
18 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 3.28
19 57.1% Afghan_Pashtun + 42.9% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.28
20 71.6% Iranian + 28.4% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.33


Some info about Old Gorgani dialect:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgan#Demographics

Map of Gorgan

http://www.worldatlas.com/img/locator/city/093/11593-gorgan-locator-map.jpg

I have a relative who has Gorgan as her surname but she identifies as Turkmen, its funny, I thought Gorgan was mostly inhabited by Turkmens.

RCO
02-16-2016, 04:32 PM
We are in 2016, we need detailed SNPs to understand the demographic realities. General haplogroups can't explain the historical itineraries. Of course the Persians have specific SNPs from that region not found in other places. Scientists are lazy to investigate the Ancient Iranian markers, so let's wait.

ancestryfan1994
02-17-2016, 05:18 PM
We are in 2016, we need detailed SNPs to understand the demographic realities. General haplogroups can't explain the historical itineraries. Of course the Persians have specific SNPs from that region not found in other places. Scientists are lazy to investigate the Ancient Iranian markers, so let's wait.

Given the political situation there, i wonder if that plays a factor in preventing further and more advanced research from being done in Iran.

Afshar
02-17-2016, 05:41 PM
We are in 2016, we need detailed SNPs to understand the demographic realities. General haplogroups can't explain the historical itineraries. Of course the Persians have specific SNPs from that region not found in other places. Scientists are lazy to investigate the Ancient Iranian markers, so let's wait.
There is meatloaf and there is steak... Funding in middle eastern countries for these kinds of projects are low. So unless there is an outsider who is willing to pay its not happening.

ancestryfan1994
02-17-2016, 09:45 PM
There is meatloaf and there is steak... Funding in middle eastern countries for these kinds of projects are low. So unless there is an outsider who is willing to pay its not happening.

This really is how it goes down there, i would assume that funding genetic research into Iranian origins and ancient DNA is the last thing on peoples minds unfortunately, especially the powers that be, which decide where the money goes to etc. Iran is also strict on who can actually come onto their land and conduct research. Heck they didn't even allow BBC to enter to film for top gear a few years back. There are a few Iranian geneticists in Iran working on population genetics (I emailed one from the university of shiraz). but again, funding their work is extremely difficult and hence they are limited to the content they can research and release.

RCO
02-17-2016, 11:48 PM
We have pretty good modern Iranian STR-samples from YHRD and SMGF. The question is NGS-SNPs because Iranian samples can possibly revolutionize the entire history and trajectory of almost all Eurasian major haplogroups, what can completely change the understanding of the Indo-European origins and I would say a final position in the understanding of some of the most basal groups of J1, J2, R1a, R1b haplogroups depends on the Iranian results not researched or not displayed after more than 3 years of the NGS technologies, so there's a lot in the game to be explained in one way or another.

Mingle
11-05-2018, 11:14 PM
They score Higher south Asian/South central asian than other Iranians/Kurds. Sometimes more Euro/Asian and less Anatolian farmer/near east.


Persian from Gorgan, a transitional area between the Caspian sea region and Khorasan.

Punt K12


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus_HG 44.17
2 Anatolian_NF 19.31
3 South_Asian 13.84
4 Near_East 13.11
5 European_HG 4.94
6 East_Asian 1.78
7 Siberian 1.41
8 South_African_HG 0.66
9 Sub-Saharan 0.65
10 Oceanian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Iranian 7.19
2 Kurdish 11.7
3 Turkish 13.74
4 Georgian_Jew 15.97
5 Kumyk 16.29
6 Afghan_Pashtun 16.37
7 Laz 16.72
8 Turkish_Trabzon 17
9 Turkish_Kayseri 17.1
10 Chechen 17.15
11 Assyrian 17.57
12 Iranian_Jew 17.91
13 Armenian 18.04
14 North_Ossetian 18.29
15 Balkar 19.62
16 Adygei 20.04
17 Balochi 20.36
18 Abkhasian 20.66
19 Makrani 21.05
20 Pakistan_Pashtun 21.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.3% Georgian_Jew + 35.7% Burusho @ 1.98
2 80.5% Iranian + 19.5% Burusho @ 2
3 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Pathan @ 2.45
4 82% Iranian + 18% Kashmir @ 2.57
5 80.2% Iranian + 19.8% Pathan @ 2.7
6 81.4% Iranian + 18.6% Sindhi @ 2.72
7 87.2% Iranian + 12.8% Bengali_Muslim @ 2.74
8 56.1% Makrani + 43.9% Cypriot @ 2.81
9 82.2% Iranian + 17.8% Punjabi_Jatt_Muslim @ 2.91
10 80.4% Iranian + 19.6% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 2.99
11 76.4% Iranian + 23.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.06
12 66.1% Georgian_Jew + 33.9% Kashmir @ 3.08
13 84.3% Iranian + 15.7% UP_Muslim @ 3.16
14 88.2% Iranian + 11.8% Keralam @ 3.19
15 81.9% Iranian + 18.1% Haryana_Jatt @ 3.21
16 86.9% Iranian + 13.1% Gujarati @ 3.22
17 57.4% Georgian_Jew + 42.6% Pakistan_Pashtun @ 3.25
18 63.1% Georgian_Jew + 36.9% Punjabi_Jatt_Sikh @ 3.28
19 57.1% Afghan_Pashtun + 42.9% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.28
20 71.6% Iranian + 28.4% Afghan_Pashtun @ 3.33


Some info about Old Gorgani dialect:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgan#Demographics

Map of Gorgan

http://www.worldatlas.com/img/locator/city/093/11593-gorgan-locator-map.jpg

punt DNAL is a pretty bad calculator. Do you have any results of his in Eurogenes or HarappaWorld?

Have you found the autosomal results of a Khorasani Persian since making this post?