PDA

View Full Version : Tatars and J2b2



hintsu
02-18-2016, 10:22 PM
Hi.
My paternal ancestry is North-Norwegian, and I' J2b2, which is kind of rare in Norway, especially Northern Norway.
On FTDNA, I have no Y-DNA STR matches.

On my BigY result, I have some distant SNP-matches. And a lot of them seem to be Turkic peoples from Russia (Tatars, Moksha-converted Tatars, and Chuvash).
Is this normal for people of J2b2?
Does this mean anything at all?

Trojet
02-18-2016, 11:57 PM
I'm guessing you are 225319/YF03063 :P
If it's you then you split with the Tatars 2900 ybp since according to your BigY, you have tested Y12000-, CTS11760-, and Z39660-. So you form your own branch parallel to them. Your MRCA shared with them is J-Z8430, 2900 ybp:
www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z8430/
http://tree.j2-m172.info/?Hg=J2b2a1a1a1a1a1a

hintsu
02-19-2016, 12:11 PM
I'm guessing you are 225319/YF03063 :P
If it's you then you split with the Tatars 2900 ybp since according to your BigY, you have tested Y12000-, CTS11760-, and Z39660-. So you form your own branch parallel to them. Your MRCA shared with them is J-Z8430, 2900 ybp:
www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z8430/
http://tree.j2-m172.info/?Hg=J2b2a1a1a1a1a1a
Haha, you are correct.
Well that kind of sucks. I was hoping I would get some kind of matches that gave me some pointer to where my paternal ancestry is from...since I had no STR matches on FTDNA.
But it seems even with Big-Y and SNPs, I'm alone on my parallel branch :P

Trojet
02-19-2016, 12:48 PM
Haha, you are correct.
Well that kind of sucks. I was hoping I would get some kind of matches that gave me some pointer to where my paternal ancestry is from...since I had no STR matches on FTDNA.
But it seems even with Big-Y and SNPs, I'm alone on my parallel branch :P

Yea, so the lack of STR matches means you don't have any closer (genealogical) matches (yet).

But eventually your paternal line in more ancient times, as well as the J2b2 Tatars, seemingly hails from the Balkans, since the diversity and frequency of J2b2-L283 is highest in the Balkans. Me and you for example split 3900 ybp. Our MRCA is J-Z1296:
www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z1296/

Maximus
05-20-2017, 10:41 AM
This branch have not oldest... estimated around 1600 years before present... czech sample in the root. I think were revers migration from EU to Volga region. I calculated haplotype variance (by 17 loci) in the Moksha peoples (~20% of J2b's) and I get similar age ~ 1000-1200 years. Or we have classical founder effect, but it is important to note that the branch is in the lowest position downstream to EU J-Z8430.

Maximus
05-20-2017, 10:49 AM
This branch have not oldest... estimated around 1600 years before present... czech sample in the root. I think were revers migration from EU to Volga region. I calculated haplotype variance (by 17 loci) in the Moksha peoples (~20% of J2b's) and I get similar age ~ 1000-1200 years. Or we have classical founder effect, but it is important to note that the branch is in the lowest position downstream to EU J-Z8430.

I commented on this quote. With which I do not quite agree...

"As a result, both the Illyrians and the Mycenaeans (and possibly the Albanians) would be descended from Middle to Late Bronze Age Steppe migrants to the Southeast Europe, in a migration that was particularly rich in J2b lineages from the Middle Volga region. That would explain why it has been so hard to identify R1a or R1b lineages that could be of Illyrian or Mycenaean origin. The only variety of R1b that is found at reasonably high frequencies in Southeast Europe, and particularly in Greece, is R1b-Z2103, the branch found in the eastern Yamna culture, including the Volga-Ural region."
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml

Maximus
05-20-2017, 10:54 AM
I can say with confidence that almost all Moksha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mokshas)J2b will into the J-Y12000 branch or slightly lower.

rafc
08-16-2017, 11:35 AM
I just saw this thread and I wanted to add that we observe something similar in V13, which off course has a distribution that closely resembles that of L283. We find members in Tatarstan and Scandinavia, and sometimes they are close. My best guess for now is that they are both the result of Viking slave trade in the early middle ages, some being taken by a straight route northwards to Scandinavia, other over the Volga route to the Volga Bulgar state.

Archetype0ne
07-15-2021, 06:45 PM
Hey! A fellow 21878!
Not sure if you are active in the forums anymore. What is your subbranch and nationality? Are you on Yfull?

Archetype0ne
07-15-2021, 06:48 PM
I just saw this thread and I wanted to add that we observe something similar in V13, which off course has a distribution that closely resembles that of L283. We find members in Tatarstan and Scandinavia, and sometimes they are close. My best guess for now is that they are both the result of Viking slave trade in the early middle ages, some being taken by a straight route northwards to Scandinavia, other over the Volga route to the Volga Bulgar state.

As far as L283, there was a L283 in the Viking study. Autosomally he could be modeled with a Balkan/Roman component + minor Nothern Shift. From what I recall this did not seem a slave. Given the burial/admixture. Slaves most likely would not be allowed to procreate/given proper burials with weapons etc.