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Passa
02-19-2016, 07:41 PM
Here it is - https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zr7itbDHGgvM.kHmbTTiPAdtQ

It will be updated as new samples get published.

Here's a table with info on samples - 7859

kingjohn
02-19-2016, 09:13 PM
could't the erding sample be e-v13 ?
up untill this day there is 7% e-v13 in bavaria
could be roman soldiers left behaind or earlier migration to southern germany .
regards
adam

Passa
02-25-2016, 02:24 PM
The map has been updated with the new Muslim samples from early medieval France. The table also has been updated: 7971

Ignis90
02-25-2016, 10:23 PM
What about the 700-years-old Bohemian unusual remains (http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/complex-analysis-of-700yearold-skeletal-remains-found-in-an-unusualgravecase-report-2332-0915-1000138.pdf)? He's predicted Y-chromosome haplogroup E1b1b (and mtdna H).

Passa
02-25-2016, 10:47 PM
What about the 700-years-old Bohemian unusual remains (http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/complex-analysis-of-700yearold-skeletal-remains-found-in-an-unusualgravecase-report-2332-0915-1000138.pdf)? He's predicted Y-chromosome haplogroup E1b1b (and mtdna H).

Totally unaware of this, thanks! I will update the map tomorrow.

Ignis90
02-25-2016, 10:58 PM
Totally unaware of this, thanks! I will update the map tomorrow.

You're welcome.
Not a very important paper but quite extensive work (including facial reconstruction).

Hilarious jewish vampire hypotheses too, one can at least make its own conclusions based on the reconstruction. :P

Gravetto-Danubian
02-25-2016, 11:17 PM
What about the 700-years-old Bohemian unusual remains (http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/complex-analysis-of-700yearold-skeletal-remains-found-in-an-unusualgravecase-report-2332-0915-1000138.pdf)? He's predicted Y-chromosome haplogroup E1b1b (and mtdna H).

It is interesting that hg E- and other groups- come up regularly in pre-modern European samples. Whilst this might be due to sample bias, they might have been genuinely more prevalent in Europe as late as the early Middle Ages. Maybe the Black Death played some part in modifying the final genetic landscape in modern Europe ? I know at least a couple of mtDNA studies showed modern Europe is less diverse than late antiquity

Passa
02-26-2016, 01:26 PM
These are Czech guy's closest matches.

7976

He was most likely L540+ (this is a V13 sub-clade). Most matches are Central/East Euro. There are also some British matches, but probably this is due to testing bias. The verdict is: this guy was indigenous to Central Europe, not a Jewish or vampire immigrant :P

I have updated the map and the table with this information. 7977. I am confident that we'll be seeing a new update when Natufian results are out.

P.S. If you notice a study reporting ancient E samples not contained in the map/table, please notify me by posting in this thread. Thanks.

Jean M
02-26-2016, 06:42 PM
What about the 700-years-old Bohemian unusual remains (http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/complex-analysis-of-700yearold-skeletal-remains-found-in-an-unusualgravecase-report-2332-0915-1000138.pdf)? He's predicted Y-chromosome haplogroup E1b1b (and mtdna H).

Have added this to my online table, but have pointed out that this Y-DNA haplogroup was only predicted on 14 STRs.

Jean M
02-26-2016, 06:46 PM
Hilarious jewish vampire hypotheses too...

Not actually Jewish vampire, but Jewish vs vampire. I was staggered to find the authors taking the vampire concept seriously, and only ruling it out in this case because they found human DNA in human remains. :biggrin1:

Tomenable
03-02-2016, 12:38 PM
the authors taking the vampire concept seriously, and only ruling it out in this case because they found human DNA in human remains.

This reminds me of a book "Daily life of gnomes in the Antiquity and in the Middle Ages. An archaeological study": :biggrin1:

http://www.amazon.com/Zycie-codzienne-krasnoludkow-starozytnosci-wie/dp/8362584238

This book is actually a scientific joke (at least I hope so). :)

BTW - if vampires are undead forms of humans (as depicted in modern fiction), then they should have human DNA, why not?

So human DNA does not even rule out the vampire hypothesis... :biggrin1: However, there are other problems about them:


In 2006, a physics professor at the University of Central Florida wrote a paper arguing that it is mathematically impossible for vampires to exist, based on geometric progression. According to the paper, if the first vampire had appeared on 1 January 1600, and it fed once a month (which is less often than what is depicted in films and folklore), and every victim turned into a vampire, then within two and a half years the entire human population of the time would have become vampires.[103] The paper made no attempt to address the credibility of the assumption that every vampire victim would turn into a vampire.

Halgurd
03-27-2016, 09:17 PM
Thank you for the map :)

Halgurd
03-30-2016, 09:35 PM
I am confident that we'll be seeing a new update when Natufian results are out.

Do you know when the results will come?

Passa
03-31-2016, 04:48 AM
Do you know when the results will come?

No, unfortunately.

ADW_1981
03-31-2016, 05:06 AM
It is interesting that hg E- and other groups- come up regularly in pre-modern European samples. Whilst this might be due to sample bias, they might have been genuinely more prevalent in Europe as late as the early Middle Ages. Maybe the Black Death played some part in modifying the final genetic landscape in modern Europe ? I know at least a couple of mtDNA studies showed modern Europe is less diverse than late antiquity

Wasn't there a LBK related culture that came up within the last 5 months that predicted 2 males as E1b1b? (probably V13) They were malnourished, and I believe the paper was in German and only tested STRs. Should be floating around one of these aDNA threads.

Passa
04-16-2016, 02:12 PM
https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/handle/1887/28495

Individual V2127 (1341-1421 AD) from Oldenzaal (Netherlands) has a 100% probability of being E1b1b according to Whit Athey's predictor. I am therefore updating the map and table to include this individual.

8890

Passa
06-17-2016, 12:40 PM
Doc and map updated with the new Natufian and PPNB Levantine samples.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1R_jpaS0H5UqKinPpJc7b3PWqyCI

9827

J Man
06-17-2016, 06:00 PM
Doc and map updated with the new Natufian and PPNB Levantine samples.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1R_jpaS0H5UqKinPpJc7b3PWqyCI

9827

I always had a strong feeling that the Natufians would have a lot of E1b1b present among them. It is nice to see this confirmed now. :)

Arame
06-21-2016, 09:10 AM
So that E-M84 in BA Armenia was not a coincidence. E-Z830 found in Natufians and Levant is the ancestor of E-M84.

Thanks for the map.

kingjohn
06-26-2016, 08:17 AM
passa haplogroup
D was finally found thank god
we wait for so long
to bad it is not that ancient .....:\
any your map is great
regards
adam

kingjohn
06-28-2016, 07:19 PM
how do we know that the erding{germany} samples
are :E-v22 and E-m34 ???:\
str is not enough you need snp test.
str can predict well if it 37-67 markers if it much lower than it is a problem.
regards
adam

kingjohn
07-01-2016, 10:57 PM
i wonder which military unit were send
to this area from dienekes forum : http://dienekes.blogspot.co.il/2012/07/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-from-late.html
and a qoate : The theory of a buried family clan had to be dismissed as well, or rather, be extended to the scenario of several families being buried there with their servants. The results obtained fit the third presumption best, namely that the buried individuals were the members of a military unit interred with their families.
there was a lebanese unit{ probable source for e-v22 and e-m34 among the roman period males found} but it was sent to mainz germany
i will look on the net see what i can find
regards
adam

p.s they used this calculator http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/haplotest.htm to came to conclusion it is e-v22 and e-m34
with whits calculator the {2 e1b1b1} samples are both e-m78* instead

Passa
09-02-2016, 10:11 PM
This thesis (https://era.library.ualberta.ca/files/wm117r51m/Moussa_Nour_M_201509_PhD.pdf) shows three individuals as being positive to SNP L914.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L914/

Though someone doubts that those individuals really are E. Should I add these samples to the table and map?

kingjohn
12-03-2016, 04:02 PM
dear passa,
you should add the e samples to yor map
of el hiero canary islands
1015–1210 AD{ have to be aboriginals } ;)
they found e-m81 and e-m33 in addition to r1b
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440316301686
regards
adam

Passa
12-03-2016, 07:35 PM
dear passa,
you should add the e samples to yor map
of el hiero canary islands
1015–1210 AD{ have to be aboriginals } ;)
they found e-m81 and e-m33 in addition to r1b
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440316301686
regards
adam

Updated.

John Doe
12-03-2016, 07:56 PM
Kinda crazy to think that the Natufian from that cave in Northern Israel might be a long lost relative of mine. :-P

evon
12-03-2016, 08:12 PM
My family has two DNA matches with YDNA E2 (M75), But they seem absent from the ancient samples..Anybody got any info on E2?

Agamemnon
12-03-2016, 08:40 PM
Kinda crazy to think that the Natufian from that cave in Northern Israel might be a long lost relative of mine. :-P

One of them might even be your direct paternal ancestor, how cool would that be? :lol:

Passa
12-04-2016, 09:59 AM
My family has two DNA matches with YDNA E2 (M75), But they seem absent from the ancient samples..Anybody got any info on E2?

We need more aDNA from Sub-Saharan Africa (especially the Nilotic region) to have at least a minor chance of detecting it among the samples.

Missouri1455
12-10-2016, 11:43 PM
Here it is - https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zr7itbDHGgvM.kHmbTTiPAdtQ

It will be updated as new samples get published.

Here's a table with info on samples - 7859

I believe the ancient arabs belonged to this haplogroup; especially since ethiopia geographically speaking is very close to yemen; i would assume some people migrated by sea to yemen; only time will let us know though.

Missouri1455
12-13-2016, 01:17 AM
I apologize for the duplicate comment just wanted to share this information

Found an interesting link to this topic

http://arabian-archaeology.com/arch5neolithic.htm


Southern Arabia has archaeological links to the Horn of Africa/East Africa stretching back to the Lower Paleolithic - about 1.5 my BP. Modern humans may have entered the region as early as 75,000-50,000 years ago. Traditionally, the Paleolithic is considered to end by 10,000 years ago or the end of the Ice Age although detailed work on this transitional period to the early Holocene has yet to be worked out.

During 75,000-50,000, what haplogroups existed during that period? if were to assume what article is saying is very accurate; what haplogroups would these people fall under?

Usually when it comes to Arabia its believed either the migrants came from north or crossed by the sea; i believe historically both migrations took place especially with the close geographic distance it shares with africa.

Thank you in advance

kingjohn
12-13-2016, 04:52 PM
only ancient dna can prove that
but yes from what i understand j{including j1 came from the north }
after we have the chg sample and also the EHG dude .... :)
it could be that haplogroup e was in arabia at some point along with
the basal euroasian component
i ask davidski who knows a lot and at his basal rich k7 test
eritreans and ethiopians score basal rich but only noise leve of ancint north euroasian and the villbruna related components
best regards
adam

raspberry
12-13-2016, 09:00 PM
To wich haplogroups did the basal euroasian people belong?

Missouri1455
12-13-2016, 11:26 PM
only ancient dna can prove that
but yes from what i understand j{including j1 came from the north }
after we have the chg sample and also the EHG dude .... :)
it could be that haplogroup e was in arabia at some point along with
the basal euroasian component
i ask davidski who knows a lot and at his basal rich k7 test
eritreans and ethiopians score basal rich but only noise leve of ancint north euroasian and the villbruna related components
best regards
adam

You know latley in Arabia there have been an increase in people who belong to the E1b1b haplogroups which is defying the odds that J is the only halogroup that have existed there in modern times; and usually these carriers belong to known tribes which makes one assume that E carriers have existed all along in Arabia and even preceded the J carriers by thousands of years. I believe what resulted in their decrease was the ever increasing tribal warfares, famines, migrations, etc.

I believe this resulted a shift in favour of the j1 and j2 haplogroups in the region. The E1b1b1 haplogroup is also believed to be the haplogroup of the ancient arabians by the experts from the region itself.

This case needs to be studied thoroughly though; thankfully the number of people that participate in these projects from arabia is increasing rapidly which is a good sign.

kingjohn
12-14-2016, 04:08 PM
we know now that E HAD ANCIENT PRESENCE IN THE LEVANT {NATUFIANS ,}
SO EVERYTHING IS POSIBLE :)
BEST REGARDS
ADAM

Missouri1455
12-14-2016, 04:53 PM
we know now that E HAD ANCIENT PRESENCE IN THE LEVANT {NATUFIANS ,}
SO EVERYTHING IS POSIBLE :)
BEST REGARDS
ADAM

That best explanation that can be given with Ancient Arabians who belong to E1b1b1 is they either belonged to E1b1b1 that came from the north(Levant) or the E1b1b1 that came directly from East Africa and both cases seem plausible; in addition E haplogroup carriers make up a sizable minority in the Levant which means this haplogroup(E) definitely had an ancient presence there.

kingjohn
12-14-2016, 05:05 PM
agree with you:D
could be 2 routs :
1}from levant down to arabia
2}from east africa{ethiopia , eritrea area directly to southern arabia}
it is hard to know % of haplogroups in ancient times
example {e-m123 is only 4% in armenia nowdays who would think including me that 2 samples from bronze age armenia will show up }:\
time will tell
regards
adam

Passa
05-10-2017, 05:26 PM
Map updated with Croatian Cardial Neolithic and Ukrainian Trypillian Neolithic samples from Mathieson et al. (2017).

Bane
05-12-2017, 11:51 AM
Great map Passa.

Btw I'd say it is disputable whether Neolithic Catalonian sample is E-V13. All known E-L618(xV13) haplotypes match that sample to the same extent as E-V13 haplotypes do.
I want to say in my opinion it makes more sense to label the sample E-L618 (not E-V13 as it is now).

Megalophias
05-12-2017, 12:01 PM
It's positive for the V13 SNP.

Trojet
05-12-2017, 12:06 PM
It's positive for the V13 SNP.

No, Bane is right. AFAIK, the Neolithic Catalonian sample was predicted as V13 based only on a limited amount of STRs. No confirmation he was V13, but most most definitely E-L618 (V13?).

MfA
05-12-2017, 12:08 PM
As Megalophias said it's SNP tested for V13



STR haplotype, substract 1 from GATA-H4 for FTDNA comparison.

https://abload.de/img/v13_mfa_w5snr.png

His closest matches
https://abload.de/img/iberian_v13_9jscm.png

Maybe a Big Y fundraising is due for N13152 Savarino

Trojet
05-12-2017, 12:15 PM
As Megalophias said it's SNP tested for V13

Interesting. So he was SNP tested V13+. Thanks for sharing, as I thought it was only an STR prediction.

Bane
05-12-2017, 12:19 PM
Thanks for the info!

Passa
05-14-2017, 03:17 PM
Map updated with the new Reihengraeber sample from Sindelsdorf (predicted E1b1b, likelihood: 61.3%).

Source: Rott, Andreas (2017): Phnomene der frhmittelalterlichen Reihengrberzeit aus molekularbiologischer Sicht. Dissertation, LMU Mnchen: Faculty of Biology

https://edoc.ub.uni-muenchen.de/20640/

Passa
05-30-2017, 04:01 PM
Map updated with the new Ptolemaic Egyptian sample.

Passa
06-30-2017, 06:45 PM
Map updated with the Neolithic Anatolian sample from Barcın Hyk.

Source: https://publications.ub.uni-mainz.de/theses/volltexte/2017/100001355/pdf/100001355.pdf

I also created several levels for my map to better visualize the chronological succession of samples. These levels are: Epipaleolithic/Mesolithic, Neolithic, Chalcolithic and Bronze Age, Iron Age, Antiquity, Medieval. Along with the levels' names, I also inserted time periods (their association with the archaeological periods is not meant to be precise, given the extreme variability with regards to the start and the end of, for example, the Neolithic in various regions).

Passa
09-22-2017, 11:52 AM
Added I0595 from Kenya and IAM.4, IAM.5 from Morocco.

Passa
10-27-2017, 02:58 PM
Added gun002, gun011, gun012 from Tenerife's late Guanche era (source: http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(17)31257-5)

Passa
02-21-2018, 11:37 AM
Added CL38, SZ18 from Longobard-era Northern Italy and Hungary, respectively (source: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/02/20/268250.figures-only).
Added II/53 from medieval Hungary (source: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7).

kingjohn
02-21-2018, 03:42 PM
Added CL38, SZ18 from Longobard-era Northern Italy and Hungary, respectively (source: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/02/20/268250.figures-only).
Added II/53 from medieval Hungary (source: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7).

thanks for all your great work
very informative map
kudos.... :)
the only thing that might be a mistake in your map is that you put one barcin hoyuc individual as e-m35
as far as i know none of barcin individual was E so if you can take him out would be great .....
other than that amazing work :)

Passa
02-21-2018, 07:12 PM
the only thing that might be a mistake in your map is that you put one barcin hoyuc individual as e-m35
as far as i know none of barcin individual was E so if you can take him out would be great .

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6496-Map-of-ancient-E-samples&p=254078&viewfull=1#post254078

kingjohn
02-21-2018, 07:44 PM
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?6496-Map-of-ancient-E-samples&p=254078&viewfull=1#post254078

correct don't know why jeanm don't put it in her neolithic table : :\

Table 65: Informative derived alleles from samples from Anatolia, samples without identifying derived
SNPs positions were excluded. Note that the haplogroup was confirmed by higher number of independent
derived markers only for Bar31.
Sample name Position SNP Haplogroup Coverage Mutation
Akt20 16638804 M438 I2 19 A->G
Bar11 21741703 M35.1 E1b1b1 4 G->C
Bar31
17174741 L156 G2 2 A->T
23244026 P15 G2a 4 C->T
14692227 L32 G2a2b 6 T->C

p.s
also one of the vinca individuals was mtdna h3h in 4500 bc as i belong to h3 also
i find it cool
jean m need to see this paper .......
i will send it to her

Bane
03-03-2018, 05:00 PM
Hi Passa,
you may be interested in this information: I3151 from the Verteba Cave (http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=4425.msg41737#msg41737)

Passa
03-09-2018, 08:19 PM
Hi Passa,
you may be interested in this information: I3151 from the Verteba Cave (http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=4425.msg41737#msg41737)

This sample is already on my map.

____________________________

Added sample Ma911 (Y-DNA D) from the Hoabinhian culture, Malaysia (source: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/08/278374).

Bane
03-09-2018, 08:37 PM
This sample is already on my map.

Indeed it is. But, on your map it is described as E-M96 and Steve found it to be positive for S14609 which is M78 equivalent. I thought maybe you would want to have this update.

kingjohn
03-09-2018, 11:49 PM
This sample is already on my map.

____________________________

Added sample Ma911 (Y-DNA D) from the Hoabinhian culture, Malaysia (source: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/03/08/278374).

finally ancient D YES............................... B)

p.s
there is also a jomon remain from japanese island who carry D 1500BC
but source japanese :(

Passa
03-10-2018, 02:07 PM
there is also a jomon remain from japanese island who carry D 1500BC
but source japanese :(

Thanks for the info. Added the Jomon individual (source: http://anthrop-meeting.sakura.ne.jp/70/pdf/ittupan_proceeding%20.pdf [C-6]).

Passa
03-15-2018, 08:46 PM
Added Iberomaurusian samples from Taforalt (source: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/03/14/science.aar8380).

rafc
03-16-2018, 08:31 AM
Great work as always, Passa!

jof2311
03-19-2018, 07:06 PM
Interesting Map , Passa what do you think about the presence of E-m78 so early in Maghreb around 14000 ybp ?

Rethel
03-19-2018, 07:14 PM
A propos, does have someone actual data about main subclades of E by country.
I was counting lastly this hg, but unfortunatly only main E, what is not sufficient.

At least it would be nice to have some pelasgian, bantu+, berber,
egyptian, cushitic, levantian and E2 separated data to work with.

Passa
05-13-2018, 10:54 AM
Added DA19 (Saka) and DA65 (Tian Shan Hun) samples from https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0094-2.

Baws
05-15-2018, 03:19 AM
Where did you get the E-M35 from Barcın Hyk (Neolithic)? What is the source?

Pribislav
05-15-2018, 08:45 AM
Where did you get the E-M35 from Barcın Hyk (Neolithic)? What is the source?

https://publications.ub.uni-mainz.de/theses/volltexte/2017/100001355/pdf/100001355.pdf

page 121

kingjohn
05-15-2018, 04:01 PM
https://publications.ub.uni-mainz.de/theses/volltexte/2017/100001355/pdf/100001355.pdf

page 121

wish we knew which branch e-v68
e-z830 ????:\
probably was e-v68 as the ancient sample is close geographically to the balkan

Rethel
05-18-2018, 06:39 PM
A propos, does have someone actual data about main subclades of E by country.
I was counting lastly this hg, but unfortunatly only main E, what is not sufficient.

At least it would be nice to have some pelasgian, bantu+, berber,
egyptian, cushitic, levantian and E2 separated data to work with.

For example, circa 57.22% of all E is E1b1a.
87.84% if it lives in Africa containing 45.36%
of the population of the continent, being also
8.59% of the whole global human population.
So, Bantuids are the strongest among E-men :beerchug:

Of course it should be viewed as +/-.

Baws
05-18-2018, 07:36 PM
So, what do u guys think? Should Y-DNA E be linked with Basal Eurasians?

Passa
08-20-2018, 02:54 PM
Added sample I1171, a Chalcolithic Levantine individual. Source (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05649-9#Sec22).

Passa
10-16-2018, 04:25 PM
Added sample scy197, a Scythian individual from Moldova. Source (http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/10/eaat4457) (wrongly reported as R1b, shown to be E-CTS1273 by YFull (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bnVJujBs_bQu_dqSVi_dSXUuz9gNIYFX_XlqRrz92mo/htmlview)).

Passa
11-03-2018, 01:24 PM
Added samples SJN001, SJN002, SJN003 from Mexico City (Afro-Mexicans). Source (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327816852_The_genetic_makeup_of_enslaved_Africans_ from_early_Colonial_Mexico_City).

Lupriac
11-08-2018, 02:22 PM
Does it matter if it is European or not ..it Founding line is From a Black Man ...Who is a common Ancestor of All this Subgroups and to whom 92% of all men in The African continent call a common Ancestor Daddy Abraham :-)) A fact that can't be changed by no level of Hate and prejudice of a foolish mind.

Applying modern-day racial classification on a 65,000 years old haplogroup E, not to mention the "Negroid" or "Black" morphology dates back only to the Holocene.

(Brief side note: If Abraham ever existed, then he'd probably be an Akkadian/Levantine herder).

Moderator
11-08-2018, 07:51 PM
This thread is now open after being cleaned up. This is a general warning to please read our Terms of Service before posting again. The admin team are monitoring this thread.

Passa
03-17-2019, 12:41 PM
Added Iberian samples from Olalde et al. (2019) (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6432/1230).

Passa
04-04-2019, 04:14 PM
Added samples from medieval Hungary. Source (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/597997v1.supplementary-material?fbclid=IwAR2EuYEFxjkilABKuUJ53qUKL4nYfQGn faB9tNMrLPuSOaa7mrQEFkO2DUc).

Farroukh
04-07-2019, 05:06 PM
Please also add one more sample from this paper:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7

Farroukh
04-07-2019, 05:06 PM
Please also add one more sample from this paper:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7

Passa
04-19-2019, 08:19 PM
Added sample SI-38 from medieval Lebanon. Source (https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(19)30111-9).

digital_noise
04-19-2019, 10:17 PM
Is the (dead) attachment in the first post that has info on the samples still around?

dany198124
04-24-2019, 03:46 PM
Great thread

Uvieu
04-27-2019, 12:51 PM
A very interesting thread. Congratulations.
Does anyone in the group have info on ancient remains tests on E-V65 / E1b1b1a4?

Passa
05-31-2019, 05:19 PM
Map updated with samples from https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2019/05/29/science.aaw6275.

VytautusofAukstaitija
05-31-2019, 06:11 PM
The early I8874 E-V32 sample from Cole's Burial is actually misplaced. It is located close to Lake Elmenteita, and directly north of Kikopey, in Kariandusi.

Looks great seeing all these pre-historic and historic E males in northern SE Africa nonetheless, but the density of samples, from the early Pastoral Neolithic duo, to the Bantu and Pastoral Iron Age all in the Kenyan-Tanzanian Rift inter-lakes region shows this area to have long functioned as a demographic sink in northern SE Africa, which makes sense of its current ethno-linguistic diversity.

Passa
07-12-2019, 11:18 AM
Eastern Scythian individual from Bashkortostan added to the map. Source (https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)30712-2).

Passa
07-18-2019, 11:45 AM
Map updated with two Scandinavian samples from the Viking Age. Source (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/703405v1).

Dorkymon
08-20-2019, 03:45 PM
Here it is - https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zr7itbDHGgvM.kHmbTTiPAdtQ

It will be updated as new samples get published.

Here's a table with info on samples - 7859

Just saw this map and thought I'd mention that Glinoe (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hlinaia,_Slobozia,_Transnistria) sits on the other end of Moldova.

"The Glinoe site is located in the Slobodzeya district, in the southeastern part of Moldova(46.6684N, 29.8001E). It consists of 114 Scythian barrows dated from the end of the 4thcentury BCE to the 2nd century BCE."

Farroukh
08-21-2019, 03:27 AM
Please, add these samples from India:

Ancient DNA from the skeletons of Roopkund Lake reveals Mediterranean migrants in India

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-11357-9

Passa
08-21-2019, 10:33 AM
Please, add these samples from India:

Ancient DNA from the skeletons of Roopkund Lake reveals Mediterranean migrants in India

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-11357-9

I added the individual in the "Indian cluster" only, because the other one doesn't qualify as "ancient".

DeVerbno
08-21-2019, 01:44 PM
I can not find on the map the result from the tomb of Bela III from this study
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7

And two Longobards
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6134036/#!po=0.724638

Passa
08-21-2019, 06:14 PM
I can not find on the map the result from the tomb of Bela III from this study
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-018-0609-7

And two Longobards
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6134036/#!po=0.724638

All of them are on the map. Look carefully

Passa
08-24-2019, 12:02 PM
Map updated with five Oranian infants from Taforalt. Source (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0047248418303750).

Passa
11-07-2019, 08:11 PM
Samples from this paper (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/366/6466/708) on ancient Italic genomes are now on the map.

Farroukh
12-15-2019, 10:46 AM
S. V. Sirotin, D. S. Bogachuk, A. A. Voloshinov, A. A. Tarasova, H. H. Mustafin, I. E. Alborova. Two Unusual Graves of the Late Medieval Period from the Bakhchisaray District of the Republic of Crimea (p. 293) (https://www.archaeolog.ru/media/ksia/ksia-256-redu.pdf)
14-15th century
SNP-results:
#6 - E1b1b1(M35.1)
#22 - E1b1b1b2a1a(CTS4483) (=M84)

https://a.radikal.ru/a13/1912/cd/bf3086adf474.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

Nevgen prediction (GATA H4 was normalized):

#6 is definite E-V13
#22 is definite E-Y5427 (=>E-Y14899)

DeVerbno
02-25-2020, 04:35 PM
Viceroy, leader of the Scandinavian-Slavic squad (Krivichs, Kryvichs, Kryvič) of a settlement in Bolshevo (tumulus (kurgan) fields 11-12 century), where there was a transit point on Klyazma

https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/rezultaty-testirovaniya-gaplogruppy-y-dnk-dlya-srednevekovogo-slavyanskogo-zahoroneniya-xii-v-v-okrestnostyah-poselka-zagoryanskiy-na

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339007981_TEST_RESULTS_OF_Y-DNA_HAPLOGROUP_FOR_THE_MEDIEVAL_SLAVIC_BURIAL_OF_T HE_12TH_CENTURY_NEAR_ZAGORYANSKY_SETTLEMENT_ON_THE _UPPER_KLYAZMA_MOSCOW_REGION

Passa
02-25-2020, 08:49 PM
S. V. Sirotin, D. S. Bogachuk, A. A. Voloshinov, A. A. Tarasova, H. H. Mustafin, I. E. Alborova. Two Unusual Graves of the Late Medieval Period from the Bakhchisaray District of the Republic of Crimea (p. 293) (https://www.archaeolog.ru/media/ksia/ksia-256-redu.pdf)
14-15th century
SNP-results:
#6 - E1b1b1(M35.1)
#22 - E1b1b1b2a1a(CTS4483) (=M84)

https://a.radikal.ru/a13/1912/cd/bf3086adf474.jpg (https://radikal.ru)

Nevgen prediction (GATA H4 was normalized):

#6 is definite E-V13
#22 is definite E-Y5427 (=>E-Y14899)




Viceroy, leader of the Scandinavian-Slavic squad (Krivichs, Kryvichs, Kryvič) of a settlement in Bolshevo (tumulus (kurgan) fields 11-12 century), where there was a transit point on Klyazma

https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/rezultaty-testirovaniya-gaplogruppy-y-dnk-dlya-srednevekovogo-slavyanskogo-zahoroneniya-xii-v-v-okrestnostyah-poselka-zagoryanskiy-na

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339007981_TEST_RESULTS_OF_Y-DNA_HAPLOGROUP_FOR_THE_MEDIEVAL_SLAVIC_BURIAL_OF_T HE_12TH_CENTURY_NEAR_ZAGORYANSKY_SETTLEMENT_ON_THE _UPPER_KLYAZMA_MOSCOW_REGION

All of the samples mentioned here have been added to the map. Thank you.

Johane Derite
02-25-2020, 09:17 PM
All of the samples mentioned here have been added to the map. Thank you.

Also add this guy:

1. Yaroslav Osmomysl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Osmomysl

http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?topic=10710.0

digital_noise
02-25-2020, 09:22 PM
Looking at the map clearly shows how vacant the supposed birthplace of E-V13 is, namely the Balkans. Its shocking really. Same with Southern Italy.

Johane Derite
02-25-2020, 11:26 PM
Looking at the map clearly shows how vacant the supposed birthplace of E-V13 is, namely the Balkans. Its shocking really. Same with Southern Italy.

There is not one single ancient Dna sample from Albania or Kosova yet, and the balkans is undertested anyway. The rumours of the Moesia antiquity results are that they are 30% Ev13

digital_noise
02-25-2020, 11:52 PM
There is not one single ancient Dna sample from Albania or Kosova yet, and the balkans is undertested anyway. The rumours of the Moesia antiquity results are that they are 30% Ev13

is this a paper currently underway? I'm seriously hungry for some activity in the barren E-V13 world

Johane Derite
02-26-2020, 12:09 AM
is this a paper currently underway? I'm seriously hungry for some activity in the barren E-V13 world

Yes:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18885-A-theory-about-the-origin-of-E-V13&p=641100&viewfull=1#post641100

DeVerbno
02-26-2020, 04:20 AM
All of the samples mentioned here have been added to the map. Thank you.

Thank you!
The exact coordinates of "Bolshevsky-1"
http://www.geokorolev.ru/sprav3/object_kultura_archaeology_0.html

Passa
02-26-2020, 09:36 PM
Also add this guy:

1. Yaroslav Osmomysl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Osmomysl

http://forum.molgen.org/index.php?topic=10710.0

Added. Thanks again.

Passa
02-28-2020, 08:45 PM
Ancient Sardinian samples from this (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6) study and this (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1102-0) one have been added.

Johane Derite
03-01-2020, 07:09 PM
A visualization of some notable EV13s that are ancient and more recent:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESC6qPJXkAML5c4?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Farroukh
03-04-2020, 04:15 PM
Ekaterina Yatsishina's presentation (22:49) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOOVE32-nXI) (in Russian) about DNA analysis of Egyptian mummies from the Pushkin Museum (https://pushkinmuseum.art/exposition_collection/collections/archeology/index.php?lang=en&combi_coll_struct=1#objects).

One of them was the bearer of E1b1b1a1b2a4b5a (equal to E-Y32576 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y32576/))

But who was him? The museum exhibits the sarcophagi of Shepsi-pu-Min, Mahu, Khor-Aha... Who among them was E-Y32576?

Passa
03-26-2020, 04:05 PM
Added new Jomon Y-DNA D samples from this study (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.004606v1).
Added new Xiongnu and Mongol samples from this study (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.25.008078v1).

Farroukh
04-08-2020, 08:36 PM
All DE-M145 aDNA samples list (pp.2-3):

https://b.radikal.ru/b24/2004/66/af74f383b253t.jpg (https://b.radikal.ru/b24/2004/66/af74f383b253.jpg)

https://a.radikal.ru/a31/2004/64/859a439338b1t.jpg (https://a.radikal.ru/a31/2004/64/859a439338b1.jpg)

https://indo-european.eu/all-ancient-dna.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1pvaFgd-jNvOZ27b3d-Nsr0H_x3a2S-F4m4WXSiSPppDYdVAwvJBroXsI

Farroukh
04-08-2020, 09:07 PM
What about the 700-years-old Bohemian unusual remains (http://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/complex-analysis-of-700yearold-skeletal-remains-found-in-an-unusualgravecase-report-2332-0915-1000138.pdf)? He's predicted Y-chromosome haplogroup E1b1b (and mtdna H).

Today this guy is highly likely (>90%) predicted as E-V65 (https://yfull.com/tree/E-V65/)

Bane
04-09-2020, 06:31 AM
All DE-M145 aDNA samples list (pp.2-3):https://indo-european.eu/all-ancient-dna.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1pvaFgd-jNvOZ27b3d-Nsr0H_x3a2S-F4m4WXSiSPppDYdVAwvJBroXsI

Interesting list!
However, there is something either unclear or plainly wrong about the I3151 sample from Verteba cave. Namely, this sample has L796 and M5115 listed as positive SNPs which are both on the E-M35 level.
Hence it is unclear why this sample has E-Z830 assigned as its terminal haplogroup?

On top of that we have another analysis which showed that the sample is S14609+ which is on the M78 level and that it is PF1985- which is on the Z830 level. This directly contradicts the haplogroup assignment given in the "Indo-European.eu document".

Pribislav
04-12-2020, 07:09 PM
Additional Y-calls for sample I4246 from Olalde et al. 2019:

I4246; 2473-2030 BC; Camino de las Yeseras; Spain; Iberia_Chl; E1b1b1a2-pre-V1039 (xY161140) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V1039/)

V1039 level:

V3737+ G>T (4 reads)

FT12049/FGC89649/Y166829+ T>A (1 read)

FGC89674/Y161161+ T>A (1 read)

Y27268+ T>A (2 reads)

FGC89702/Y161144+ A>G (1 read)

FGC89717/Y166803+ A>G (2 reads)

Y161159/FGC89625/V7926+ C>A (1 read)

V2641+ G>A (1 read)

FGC89697/Y166828/FT13168 ? G>T (1 derived, 1 ancestral read)

Y166816/FGC89644/FT12757 ? C>A (1 derived, 2 ancestral reads)

Y126037- C>T (1 read)

FGC89635/Y166815/FT12807- C>T (1 read)



V1039>Y161140 level:

V6586/FGC89696/Y161171- T>G (1 read)

Ruderico
04-13-2020, 08:31 AM
Additional Y-calls for sample I4246 from Olalde et al. 2019:

I4246; 2473-2030 BC; Camino de las Yeseras; Spain; Iberia_Chl; E1b1b1a2-(pre?-)V1039 (xY161140) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V1039/)
Thanks Pribislav, that's the sample who has significant north African ancestry so his father or his grandfather were originally somewhere from the southern Mediterranean. It probably had split from its common branch with Y161140 not that many generations before since Y161140's TMRCA is 5000 years

Amhas
04-13-2020, 08:47 AM
Additional Y-calls for sample I4246 from Olalde et al. 2019:

I4246; 2473-2030 BC; Camino de las Yeseras; Spain; Iberia_Chl; E1b1b1a2-(pre?-)V1039 (xY161140) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V1039/)

V1039 level:

V3737+ G>T (4 reads)

FT12049/FGC89649/Y166829+ T>A (1 read)

FGC89674/Y161161+ T>A (1 read)

Y27268+ T>A (2 reads)

FGC89702/Y161144+ A>G (1 read)

FGC89717/Y166803+ A>G (2 reads)

Y161159/FGC89625/V7926+ C>A (1 read)

V2641+ G>A (1 read)

FGC89697/Y166828/FT13168 ? G>T (1 derived, 1 ancestral read)

Y166816/FGC89644/FT12757 ? C>A (1 derived, 2 ancestral reads)

Y126037- C>T (1 read)

FGC89635/Y166815/FT12807- C>T (1 read)



V1039>Y161140 level:

V6586/FGC89696/Y161171- T>G (1 read)

That's a great analysis, thank you for sharing.
Is it possible to have something similar for the Sardinian E-V68* (with North african ancestry) from this paper.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1102-0

Kelmendasi
04-14-2020, 07:15 PM
I have read on another forum that sample SNN001 (San Nicola Necropoli Esterna) from the paper on Sardinia is actually V13>CTS9320 (S20250+) rather than just L618* based on BAM analysis http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=4640.0. Would be great if someone could check if this is correct.

Dorkymon
04-14-2020, 07:18 PM
You guys still have the Glinoe sample from Moldova shown on the other end of the country, in your community map.

Pribislav
04-14-2020, 08:00 PM
I have read on another forum that sample SNN001 (San Nicola Necropoli Esterna) from the paper on Sardinia is actually V13>CTS9320 (S20250+) rather than just L618* based on BAM analysis http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=4640.0. Would be great if someone could check if this is correct.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19227-Population-history-from-the-Neolithic-to-present-(Sardinia)-Marcus-et-al-(2019-)&p=631804&viewfull=1#post631804 (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19227-Population-history-from-the-Neolithic-to-present-(Sardinia)-Marcus-et-al-(2019-)&p=631804&viewfull=1#post631804)

Pribislav
04-15-2020, 04:42 AM
That's a great analysis, thank you for sharing.
Is it possible to have something similar for the Sardinian E-V68* (with North african ancestry) from this paper.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1102-0

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19763-Spread-of-Steppe-ancestry-to-the-Western-Mediterranean-(Fernandes-et-al-2020)&p=659295&viewfull=1#post659295


I15940; 2345-2146 BC; Anghelu Ruju, Sardinia, Italy; Sardinia_Chl; E1b1b1a2-pre-V1039 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V1039/)

V1039 level:

V2196/SK861+ A>G (1 read)

FGC89717/Y166803+ A>G (1 read)

FGC89627/FT13863/Y166814+ C>G (1 read)

V3737+ G>T (1 read)

FGC89671/Y161145/V5369+ T>C (1 read)

Y126037- C>T (2 reads)

Y166816/FT12757/FGC89644- C>A (2 reads)

FGC89697/Y166828/FT13168- G>T (1 read)

Y161177/FGC89803- G>A (3 reads)

Pribislav
04-16-2020, 07:26 PM
This one hasn't been analyzed by me, but it's from a trusted source:

I12031; 500-600 AD; Pla de l'Horta, Girona, Spain; Visigoth_Medieval; E-V13>Z1057>CTS1273>Y35953>PF6784>Y93395 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y93395/)

Keqa
04-16-2020, 11:59 PM
This one hasn't been analyzed by me, but it's from a trusted source:

I12031; 500-600 AD; Pla de l'Horta, Girona, Spain; Visigoth_Medieval; E-V13>Z1057>CTS1273>Y35953>PF6784>Y93395 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y93395/)

Yeah, I have checked him out too. Low quality sample but he is indeed Y93395+

Passa
04-18-2020, 11:30 PM
Two ancient DE individuals belonging to the North Caucasus Koban culture added. Source (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X20301486?dgcid=coauthor&fbclid=IwAR1TjmgWfFuhhqc2uHlGZ58J75diggdCcW6Qt2pz5 ss5d5B6i-2hPEIGn58#ab010).

Pribislav
04-18-2020, 11:59 PM
Two ancient DE individuals belonging to the North Caucasus Koban culture added. Source (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X20301486?dgcid=coauthor&fbclid=IwAR1TjmgWfFuhhqc2uHlGZ58J75diggdCcW6Qt2pz5 ss5d5B6i-2hPEIGn58#ab010).

Assignment E1a2a1b1b-CTS4038 for sample no.2 is almost certainly false. Apart from finding that clade in any past or present Caucasus population doesn't make any sense at all, authors for some reason ignored two more probable assignments:

C2-M217 level: CTS8216+

C2-M217>L1373>F3447>F1699 level: FGC16362+

or this one:

R1b-M343 level: L1349+

R1b-M343>>>>M269 level: PF6444+

Besides these, this low coverage sample also has derived calls for haplogroups J1, L and O, so why the authors have chosen to assign it to the least probable of these haplogroups is beyond me.

Hawk
04-19-2020, 12:41 AM
This one hasn't been analyzed by me, but it's from a trusted source:

I12031; 500-600 AD; Pla de l'Horta, Girona, Spain; Visigoth_Medieval; E-V13>Z1057>CTS1273>Y35953>PF6784>Y93395 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y93395/)

Is his subclade Balkan in origin or some Central European?

Pribislav
04-19-2020, 12:59 AM
Is his subclade Balkan in origin or some Central European?

Looks more Central European to me. Most results on FTDNA and YFull are from Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, with several from Italy, Malta and England. Given its TMRCA is ~900 BC, my guess is it could've originated in some Early Iron Age Pannonian-Illyrian tribe.

Farroukh
04-19-2020, 09:54 AM
Boulygina et al. Mitochondrial and Y-chromosome diversity of the prehistoric Koban culture of the North Caucasus (2020) (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X20301486?dgcid=coauthor)

Sample number Burial site Mitochondrial haplogroup (Sanger sequencing) Mitochondrial haplogroup (Illumina sequencing) Y-chromosomal haplogroup (Illumina sequencing)
2 Klin-Yar-3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klin-Yar) J1c J1b1 E1a2a1b1b (E-CTS4038 (https://yfull.com/tree/E-CTS4038/))

E1a-CTS4038 aDNA sample from Koban culture,Stavropol (Russia) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koban_culture)

UPD: Wrong attribution. See comments of Pribislav (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?p=660275#post660275)

Bane
04-19-2020, 11:00 AM
2 Klin-Yar-3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klin-Yar) J1c J1b1 E1a2a1b1b (E-CTS4038 (https://yfull.com/tree/E-CTS4038/))

E1a-CTS4038 aDNA sample from Koban culture,Stavropol (Russia) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koban_culture)


Pribislav already wrote that this one is most probably wrong assignment:


Assignment E1a2a1b1b-CTS4038 for sample no.2 is almost certainly false. Apart from finding that clade in any past or present Caucasus population doesn't make any sense at all, authors for some reason ignored two more probable assignments:

C2-M217 level: CTS8216+

C2-M217>L1373>F3447>F1699 level: FGC16362+

or this one:

R1b-M343 level: L1349+

R1b-M343>>>>M269 level: PF6444+

Besides these, this low coverage sample also has derived calls for haplogroups J1, L and O, so why the authors have chosen to assign it to the least probable of these haplogroups is beyond me.

Farroukh
04-19-2020, 11:15 AM
Thanks, I updated that post.

Aspar
04-26-2020, 01:56 PM
This one hasn't been analyzed by me, but it's from a trusted source:

I12031; 500-600 AD; Pla de l'Horta, Girona, Spain; Visigoth_Medieval; E-V13>Z1057>CTS1273>Y35953>PF6784>Y93395 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y93395/)

At CTS1273 level:

CTS5856 = A>G = 1 read
CTS1273 = no reads
CTS3207 = no reads
CTS7237 = G>G = 1 read
PF2217 = no reads
CTS9761 = no reads
Y27158 = C>C = 2 reads

Hmm this sample appears to be negative on two SNP's at CTS1273 level of which one is with 2 reads...

RagingBull
04-28-2020, 01:49 AM
Assignment E1a2a1b1b-CTS4038 for sample no.2 is almost certainly false. Apart from finding that clade in any past or present Caucasus population doesn't make any sense at all, authors for some reason ignored two more probable assignments:

C2-M217 level: CTS8216+

C2-M217>L1373>F3447>F1699 level: FGC16362+

or this one:

R1b-M343 level: L1349+

R1b-M343>>>>M269 level: PF6444+

Besides these, this low coverage sample also has derived calls for haplogroups J1, L and O, so why the authors have chosen to assign it to the least probable of these haplogroups is beyond me.

I have to respectfully disagree regarding the presence of E1a in the Caucasus. E1a and E1b1a have been found near the Caucasus (in Iran, Central Asia and India) and many eyewitnesses, including Herodotus, mention the presence of Sub-Saharan populations in the Colchis region.

Farroukh
04-28-2020, 05:48 AM
African subclades present in Georgia and Azerbaijan up to date. But in this case it was wrong interpretation of Y-SNP results. The sample seems to be R1b-M269.

Hawk
04-28-2020, 07:17 AM
African subclades present in Georgia and Azerbaijan up to date. But in this case it was wrong interpretation of Y-SNP results. The sample seems to be R1b-M269.

Probably the same error happened with Pharaoh Ramesses, but due to appeasing the American mass they never bothered to fix their error. But in this case, confusing E1a with R1b SNP is alarming.

Farroukh
04-29-2020, 03:02 AM
Pharao's Y-DNA was tested for Y-STR only. "E-M2" or "E-V22" are just predictions and nothing else. Both of them are probable for Egypt area.
End of offtopic.

Finn
05-03-2020, 11:46 AM
Ekaterina Yatsishina's presentation (22:49) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOOVE32-nXI) (in Russian) about DNA analysis of Egyptian mummies from the Pushkin Museum (https://pushkinmuseum.art/exposition_collection/collections/archeology/index.php?lang=en&combi_coll_struct=1#objects).

One of them was the bearer of E1b1b1a1b2a4b5a (equal to E-Y32576 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y32576/))

But who was him? The museum exhibits the sarcophagi of Shepsi-pu-Min, Mahu, Khor-Aha... Who among them was E-Y32576?

Many thanks Farroukh!

Exciting! I missed this completely.....:doh:

But this branch is exactly mine!

From an Egyptian sarcophagus to the center of Friesland.....enigmatic.

Of course as you can understand this I'm also very curios now which one was him?

rms2
05-03-2020, 04:53 PM
Many thanks Farroukh!

Exciting! I missed this completely.....:doh:

But this branch is exactly mine!

From an Egyptian sarcophagus to the center of Friesland.....enigmatic.

Of course as you can understand this I'm also very curios now which one was him?

Probably Imhotep. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_IFk-NA7eo

Finn
05-03-2020, 05:38 PM
Probably Imhotep. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_IFk-NA7eo

Or.....:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:


https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/video/former-prime-minister-margaret-thatcher-makes-jokes-nieuwsfootage/1B07421_0007

digital_noise
05-03-2020, 06:20 PM
Many thanks Farroukh!

Exciting! I missed this completely.....:doh:

But this branch is exactly mine!

From an Egyptian sarcophagus to the center of Friesland.....enigmatic.

Of course as you can understand this I'm also very curios now which one was him?

this is exciting! congrats on the connection

Ruderico
05-03-2020, 06:20 PM
Many thanks Farroukh!

Exciting! I missed this completely.....:doh:

But this branch is exactly mine!

From an Egyptian sarcophagus to the center of Friesland.....enigmatic.

Of course as you can understand this I'm also very curios now which one was him?

Well if it's the mummy I'm seeing he was from 1st century BC whereas your branch's MRCA lived ~3600BC, so you there's the possibility you may not even have an ancient Egyptian patrilinear ancestor :p but if you do I'd blame it on the Romans

Finn
05-03-2020, 06:58 PM
Well if it's the mummy I'm seeing he was from 1st century BC whereas your branch's MRCA lived ~3600BC, so you there's the possibility you may not even have an ancient Egyptian patrilinear ancestor :p but if you do I'd blame it on the Romans

The last one is a big chance, or my pet theory the Spanish Army that plundered the village of my oldest ancestors:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Boksum

I guess the 'patriarch' lived along the Nile, research I did with Wim Penninx (and with the help of Passa) a few years ago:
http://e-v22.net/origin/
http://e-v22.net/descendants/

Bealfire
05-03-2020, 07:20 PM
EV22 seems to have been quite common among pre-Em81 Northwest Africans. It might even have been one of the main lineages that spread Proto-Berber into Northwest Africa. The presence of relatively old EV22 in Spain and Sardinia are indications of it.

Bealfire
05-03-2020, 07:25 PM
Your lineage has a TMRCA of 5600 years which corresponds perfectly with Neolithic settlements in Egypt and probably a massive demographic boom in the Nile valley without any doubt.

Finn
05-03-2020, 08:11 PM
Well if it's the mummy I'm seeing he was from 1st century BC whereas your branch's MRCA lived ~3600BC, so you there's the possibility you may not even have an ancient Egyptian patrilinear ancestor :p but if you do I'd blame it on the Romans

By the way it's not one they studied nine......


Nine ancient Egyptian mummies (dated preliminarily to the period from the 1st mill. BCE to thefirst centuries CE) from the collection of the State Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts have been studied at theNational Research Centre “Kurchatov Institute” (NRC KI) on the base of the complex of NBICS technol-ogies. Tomographic scanning is performed using a magneto-resonance tomograph (3 T) and a hybrid posi-tron emission tomography/computed tomography (PET-CT) scanner. Three-dimensional reconstructionsof mummies and their anthropological measurements are carried out. Some medical conclusions are drawn based on the tomographic data. In addition, the embalming composition and tissue of one of the mummiesare preliminarily analyzed.

https://www.academia.edu/37446247/Interdisciplinary_Study_of_Egyptian_Mummies_from_t he_Pushkin_State_Museum_of_Fine_Arts_Collection_at _the_National_Research_Centre_Kurchatov_Institute_

Finn
05-03-2020, 09:32 PM
Probably Imhotep. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_IFk-NA7eo

May I ask a favor? As your wife is Russian can she spell out what is written and said from 22:49 is not only about the E-V22 but also about R1b when I see it well....Thanks in advance!!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HOOVE32-nXI

Farroukh
05-04-2020, 04:51 AM
Dear Finn,
Highly likely it was Shepsi-pu-Min.
My Russian is fluent, there was also R1b1a1b bearer (eq. to V1636 or FT40455)

Finn
05-04-2020, 09:22 AM
Dear Finn,
Highly likely it was Shepsi-pu-Min.
My Russian is fluent, there was also R1b1a1b bearer (eq. to V1636 or FT40455)

:humble:
Thanks to the attention and cleverness of Farroukh my ydna is no longer dead end street.....

Finn
05-04-2020, 01:28 PM
Dear Finn,
Highly likely it was Shepsi-pu-Min.
My Russian is fluent, there was also R1b1a1b bearer (eq. to V1636 or FT40455)

Why do you think that Shepsi-pu-Min is the E-V22 (/ https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y32576/) one? (of the nine....).

Finn
05-08-2020, 12:39 PM
Probably Imhotep. ;)

[]

And guess what.....

You dont think 2,000 years ago that Ancient Egyptians came to Yorkshire
but they did.

It really does widen your horizons in some ways it blows your mind,


https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/ancient-egyptians-links-yorkshire-uncovered-1857352?fbclid=IwAR3LxxwFbvFtuYZEGVMBjZsB6JzGzdIo0 lNK0qbqnUx4KVon6zCSvFiKBjM

Passa
05-27-2020, 12:51 PM
Map updated with 6 samples ranging from the Middle Neolithic to the Late Iron Age from today's France. Link (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/05/20/1918034117) to the paper.

Note: the presence of SNP-tested E samples in BORS-Michelsberg individuals from Alsace indicates that the individual from Bruchsal-Aue in nearby Germany (also part of the Michelsberg culture), predicted E-M215 through STR analysis, may indeed be a real M215 case.

Farroukh
05-27-2020, 06:40 PM
E1b1a1a1a1c2c (5640-5350 ybp) eq. to E-CTS3274 (https://yfull.com/tree/E-CTS3274/) from Ferme de l'le (Noyen, France) is the first ancient European with stereotyped Sub-Saharan subclade. Very interesting

Kelmendasi
05-27-2020, 06:50 PM
Map updated with 6 samples ranging from the Middle Neolithic to the Late Iron Age from today's France. Link (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/05/20/1918034117) to the paper.

Note: the presence of SNP-tested E samples in BORS-Michelsberg individuals from Alsace indicates that the individual from Bruchsal-Aue in nearby Germany (also part of the Michelsberg culture), predicted E-M215 through STR analysis, may indeed be a real M215 case.
Very interesting, I think it's possible that these E-M78 samples from the Michelsberg culture will turn out to be positive for L618. I also wonder if the La Tne E-M215 sample is in fact V13+.

Passa
05-28-2020, 03:45 PM
An amazing week overall. The map has been updated with another E sample (V65+), this time from Hellenistic-period Beirut in modern-day Lebanon. Source (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2020.05.008).

Three other samples, from Bronze Age Israel, have been added to the map. Source (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2020.04.024).

Map updated with two E-L795 samples from Bronze Age Northern Levant and Anatolia. Source (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2020.04.044).

Ruderico
05-28-2020, 04:01 PM
An amazing week overall. The map has been updated with another E sample (V65+), this time from Hellenistic-period Beirut in modern-day Lebanon. Source (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2020.05.008).

There might be more here
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20458-Filling-Important-Gaps-in-the-Genomic-History-of-Southwest-Asia&p=670474#post670474

Edit:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20461-The-Genomic-History-of-the-Bronze-Age-Southern-Levant
1x M34; 2x M34>M84

Lupriac
05-29-2020, 09:52 PM
I found an E-V65 man from Bekaa, Lebanon. It was considered as non-existent in Lebanon, before. Guess what ;) Turns out E-V65 presence is clearly pre-Islamic, when it was most likely from medieval north Africa. Gotta love these samples.

Adamm
05-29-2020, 09:54 PM
I found an E-V65 man from Bekaa, Lebanon. It was considered as non-existent in Lebanon, before. Guess what ;) Turns out E-V65 presence is clearly pre-Islamic, when it was most likely from the medieval age.

Can you tell me more about E-V65, where does it peaks?

Lupriac
05-29-2020, 09:57 PM
Can you tell me more about E-V65, where does it peaks?

(Just so I don't hijack the thread or anything, a quick answer) It appears E-V65 peaks in Libya and is quite a significant clade among Berbers from North Africa. The sample, dating to the Hellenistic era, is V65+ which is very interesting, makes me wonder how this clade got there. Plenty of historical explanations, a Berber merchant who sailed with the Phoenicians perhaps.

Adamm
05-29-2020, 10:02 PM
(Just so I don't hijack the thread or anything, a quick answer) It appears E-V65 peaks in Libya and is quite a significant clade among Berbers from North Africa. The sample, dating to the Hellenistic era, is V65+ which is very interesting, makes me wonder how this clade got there. Plenty of historical explanations, a Berber merchant who sailed with the Phoenicians perhaps.

Thanks for the reply, I asked indeed because I know many several Berbers from a DNA group with this haplogroup and it peaks on the Western coast of Morocco in certain tribes.

Passa
06-05-2020, 01:53 PM
Map updated with a medieval E-V13 sample from Krakauer Berg, Germany. Source (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.20.106971v1).

ashraff
06-05-2020, 10:33 PM
I found an E-V65 man from Bekaa, Lebanon. It was considered as non-existent in Lebanon, before. Guess what ;) Turns out E-V65 presence is clearly pre-Islamic, when it was most likely from medieval north Africa. Gotta love these samples.

Hi. Moe,
Can you please provide me with the markers of the E-V65 sample from Bakaa?
Iam also E-V65 from Palestine,
Thanks in advance

Aspar
06-07-2020, 12:00 PM
Probably the OP didn't see my earlier post but the prediction of the Visigoth as E-Y93395 (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y93395/) is wrong and it should be corrected in the map.

This sample is ancestral on two snp's at CTS1273 level:

At E-CTS1273 level:

CTS5856 = A>G (1G)
CTS1273 = no reads
CTS3207 = no reads
CTS7237 = G>A (1G)
PF2217 = no reads
CTS9761 = no reads
Y27158 = C>G (2C)

So the most appropriate classification is:

I12031; 500-600 AD; Pla de l'Horta, Girona, Spain; Visigoth_Medieval; E-V13>E-Z1057>E-CTS5856* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS1273/)

Halgurd
06-11-2020, 01:22 AM
Does anyone know what clade of E-M35 the Catal Hoyuk sample belonged to?

Passa
06-13-2020, 12:37 PM
Map updated with several Pastoral Neolithic samples from Kenya and Bantu-related samples from Botswana. Source (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/24/eaaz0183.full).

piye
06-13-2020, 01:48 PM
Map updated with several Pastoral Neolithic samples from Kenya and Bantu-related samples from Botswana. Source (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/24/eaaz0183.full).

What of the east african forager(with no PN or bantu ancestry just as Mota) samples with E and CT haplogroups? Hope they were updated too

The significance is also noted

Passa
06-13-2020, 01:52 PM
What of the east african forager(with no PN or bantu ancestry just as Mota) samples with E and CT haplogroups? Hope they were updated too

The significance is also noted

I do not count 300-year-old samples as "ancients". Regarding the CT samples: unless a sample is confirmed M96+, it won't be shown on the map.

Aspar
06-15-2020, 12:12 PM
Snp calls for I10853, Medieval, 7701200 CE, NE Iberia : E-CTS1273* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS1273/)

E-V13: (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/)
21228969 V7565/Y3865/FGC11422/SK887+ C>A(1A)
19246289 CTS10084/PF2245/Z1058+ C>T(1T)
22299418 Y3181- T>G(5T) ==> Low mapping quality read(so most possibly a wrong or a false read)

E-Z1057: (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z1057/)
no calls

E-CTS1273: (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS1273/)
14724656 CTS3207/PF2224+ C>T(1T)
3562986 Y27158- C>G(2C) ==> Low mapping quality read(so most possibly a wrong or a false read)

E-FT7781: (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT7781/)
no calls

E-Y35953: (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y35953/)
no calls
E-PF6784: (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-PF6784/)
8738410 Y36784- A>G(1A)

E-BY3880: (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY3880/)
22235412 BY3880- A>G(1A) ==> Low mapping quality read(so most possibly a wrong or a false read)

E-CTS9320:
23746303 Y3761/FGC36575- C>A(1C)

Finn
06-21-2020, 11:51 AM
Probably Imhotep. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_IFk-NA7eo


The linking pin:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20751-Aethiops-milites-The-genetic-trace-of-Roman-Egyptian-soldiers-in-North-West-Europe&p=677731#post677731

Lupriac
07-01-2020, 01:44 PM
Passa, is there any information about the terminal SNP of the Ebla sample?

Pribislav
07-01-2020, 03:26 PM
Passa, is there any information about the terminal SNP of the Ebla sample?

ETM010; 2500-2000 BC; Ebla; Syria_EMBA; E-M84>>>CTS9608 (xY179279,BY79385,CTS2633,PF6391,Y84338,BY10898) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS9608/)

shadowhite
07-03-2020, 11:33 AM
please delete

shadowhite
07-04-2020, 10:45 AM
Probably the OP didn't see my earlier post but the prediction of the Visigoth as

I12031; 500-600 AD; Pla de l'Horta, Girona, Spain; Visigoth_Medieval; E-V13>E-Z1057>E-CTS5856* (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS1273/)

ETM010; 2500-2000 BC; Ebla; Syria_EMBA; E-M84>>>CTS9608 (xY179279,BY79385,CTS2633,PF6391,Y84338,BY10898) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS9608/)

HI

Mr. Ted Kandell Says
Analyze sample IAM.5 again and is pre-E-L539 PF2195+ PF2108
is not pre E-M81
What do you think, dear experts?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dUmGqQ3cMbbQYcOYQY4GXS7D-MsmWYZo4KcuAxP4yiU/edit?fbclid=IwAR2Btnk-GKSnFDmOhu-DVmjk10bAhfNfI-kDiakXv60biMnyS4UHiGdSF20#gid=778602462

BAM:

http://open-genomes.org/genomes/Fregel%20(2018)/IAM.5/?fbclid=IwAR2YBfOzYwqxRnpENoLiIb3H_ZqITZH704011hT8 OM1hP-B2Utogv76qXdo

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/ERS1937409

Imesmouden
07-07-2020, 02:19 PM
Any informations about Grotta Colombi sample?

Johane Derite
07-10-2020, 07:39 PM
E-V13 S2979 (E-BY4992) sample in the Hungarian rpd Dynasty paper:

LINK: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z/tables/2?fbclid=IwAR2M-C1BK3WVftb9jWV_zjxdIkI_NWuPcWE8P0ymS-lP0fju0QE3TJgsuZI

Sample: HU53
Mitochondria: H1c1

Buried: Inside the church, site not specified

(Church: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Basilica_of_the_Assumption_of_the_Blessed_Virgin_M ary )

Riverman
07-10-2020, 07:59 PM
E-V13 S2979 (E-BY4992) sample in the Hungarian rpd Dynasty paper:

LINK: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z/tables/2?fbclid=IwAR2M-C1BK3WVftb9jWV_zjxdIkI_NWuPcWE8P0ymS-lP0fju0QE3TJgsuZI

Sample: HU53
Mitochondria: H1c1

Buried: Inside the church, site not specified

(Church: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Basilica_of_the_Assumption_of_the_Blessed_Virgin_M ary )

Did they do an autosomal analysis too?

Johane Derite
07-10-2020, 10:23 PM
Did they do an autosomal analysis too?

As far as I saw it was just Y analysis

Kelmendasi
07-10-2020, 11:15 PM
E-V13 S2979 (E-BY4992) sample in the Hungarian rpd Dynasty paper:

LINK: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z/tables/2?fbclid=IwAR2M-C1BK3WVftb9jWV_zjxdIkI_NWuPcWE8P0ymS-lP0fju0QE3TJgsuZI

Sample: HU53
Mitochondria: H1c1

Buried: Inside the church, site not specified

(Church: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Basilica_of_the_Assumption_of_the_Blessed_Virgin_M ary )
Interesting, E-BY4992 is a downstream of FGC11450 and is just upstream of Y58870 (BY4994) https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y58870/. E-BY4992 has been found in an English sample from the town of Bath in southwestern England, BY4992>BY4994 (Y58870) on the other hand has been found in two Germans from Schleswig-Holstein in northern Germany. The Germans share a TMRCA of 900 ybp.

From what I have gathered the samples are dated back to the 12th century CE, though someone should double-check this as I am not too sure. If sample HU53 really is from this time period, then it would be rather close to the TMRCA of BY4994, suggesting that he may have lived around Central Europe.