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Gravetto-Danubian
02-25-2016, 04:55 AM
An interesting twist on classic Mendeliansim - a mixed race (African-American and Caucasian) US couple has given birth to twin girls. Rather than both being a 'blend', one girl looks decidedly dark-toned, whilst the other is fair. And the parents only really noticed after 2 or so weeks.

http://m.essentialbaby.com.au/baby/baby-care/twin-girls-beat-odds-to-be-born-black-and-white-20160216-gmv9f8.html

Not a hard hitting genetics article; but amazing - and rather cute- nevertheless, IMO)

CelticGerman
02-25-2016, 06:11 AM
this shows very well the concept of "races" is nonsense

GogMagog
02-25-2016, 04:08 PM
In today's paper a Zimbabwe father and white Mum had two kids with different external racial features.

ArmandoR1b
02-25-2016, 05:17 PM
Here are two other cases -

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/living/feat-black-white-twins/

http://www.babycenter.com/0_strange-but-true-mixed-race-twins-one-black-one-white_10364936.bc

Too bad we don't have the biogeographical ancestry results of all of these cases. It would be cool to see if the physical characteristics matched the BGA or not.

Dimanto
02-25-2016, 06:26 PM
Here are two other cases -

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/03/living/feat-black-white-twins/

http://www.babycenter.com/0_strange-but-true-mixed-race-twins-one-black-one-white_10364936.bc

Too bad we don't have the biogeographical ancestry results of all of these cases. It would be cool to see if the physical characteristics matched the BGA or not.

of course not.

crossover
02-25-2016, 11:25 PM
yeah it's possible for siblings to have drastically different skin and hair color

ArmandoR1b
02-26-2016, 03:13 AM
of course not.

I am, of course, not saying that there will be a 100% difference. Just that the difference is more than normal between siblings.. I have seen where siblings have a much larger continental difference in their BGA when one parent has DNA from a continent the other parent does not. I have also heard of an autosomal chromosome being passed down unchanged from a grandparent through a parent and the chromosomes with the physical characteristics could easily carry more of the respective BGA. These aren't identical twins so their autosomal DNA will be different. I am leaning towards the physical characteristics following the BGA.

Lugus
02-26-2016, 07:20 AM
Stories like this pop up once in a while. Someone should study these cases and provide a scientific explanation. A term already exists: atavism. See another interesting example from apartheid time South Africa:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/sandra-laing-a-black-girl-born-to-white-parents/

C J Wyatt III
02-26-2016, 07:52 AM
Stories like this pop up once in a while. Someone should study these cases and provide a scientific explanation. A term already exists: atavism. See another interesting example from apartheid time South Africa:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/sandra-laing-a-black-girl-born-to-white-parents/

Interesting, but sad.

My research has been showing that many white Americans born in the Colonies or the early days of the Republic had some African in them. I am sure that this led to a lot of situations similar to that in the article, I have seen various ways of coping in these cases where the offspring were darker than the parents, including disguising one's family as slaves.

Jack

drobbah
02-26-2016, 08:49 AM
Stories like this pop up once in a while. Someone should study these cases and provide a scientific explanation. A term already exists: atavism. See another interesting example from apartheid time South Africa:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/sandra-laing-a-black-girl-born-to-white-parents/

I've seen the documentary on that South African girl.These stories really made me realize that race truly is a social construct!

Lugus
02-26-2016, 10:38 AM
Interesting, but sad

Tragic indeed. It was their own daughter.


These stories really made me realize that race truly is a social construct!

Racism is social nonsense. History shows us that the ones at the bottom today will be at the top tomorrow and vice versa. Like the song the big wheel keeps on turning...

R. Walker
02-27-2016, 02:38 AM
Doesn't this really prove that there is no such thing as Race, except for the Human one? Are blonds considered a different race? Are blue eyes considered a different race? Why is skin color considered a racial determinant?

Krefter
02-27-2016, 03:08 AM
Doesn't this really prove that there is no such thing as Race, except for the Human one? Are blonds considered a different race? Are blue eyes considered a different race? Why is skin color considered a racial determinant?

Single populations, who have breed exclusively with each other for 100s or 1,000s of years, still have a large variety of traits. There are some traits they'll all have, like dark skin. That's why blonde hair or big noses don't constitute a new race, they're traits not everyone has but some do.

The races Americans think of: Black, White, Asian are real races. There is lots of ancestry all white people share that no one else has, that Blacks share that no one else has, that Asians share that no one else shares. Everyone in the world isn't Black, White, and Asian and the relationship Black/White/Asian have isn't a simple-tree relationship, but nonetheless those are very real genetic categories.

All race is is two populations with differnt ancestry. That makes Ashkenazi Jews and Finnish races. There are huge regions where everyone shares distant ancestry no else shares, which makes them ginormous races. All the "Asian" people, with slanted eyes, have distant shared ancestry. Everyone from Vietnam to Kazakhstan has distant shared ancestry no one else has, which is why they look similar. These huge-regions of land where everyone shares distant ancestry, are the classic races: white, Black, Asian.

It gets complicated though. Native Americans and Europeans/Whites are differnt races, right? Yes, but it's complicated. Whites and Amerindians share a common ancestor who lived in North Eurasia. The relationship they have isn't tree-like. Modern races(like Black, white, etc) are a mixture of older races, who were a mixture of older races, etc. Whites and Amerindians are differnt races, but share decent from one of the same older races.

I don't like using the word race, not because people are offended, but because it assumes a simple tree-like relationship. I use the word "population" or use a word referring to geography. We don't know exactly what modern races are and what their relationship is. Amerindians and whites are a good example, we had no idea they had a common ancestor.

evon
02-27-2016, 10:42 AM
Have a twin couple like that on my street, mother is Russian and father is African, they have a brown skinned boy with brown hair and brown eyes and a fair skinned girl with blue eyes and blond hair..

Xuipa
02-27-2016, 06:26 PM
the father and the mother's father determine the paint jobs, the paint job is the shell that codes over what they really are .. thus you can easily have two different paint jobs.

the real girls are what the paint is put on. you can paint a ferrari with VW paint and one with some special thunderbird paint and it won't ever make it anything but a Farrari, but someone might think it is a thunderbird if does see what is really there close enough. . If only scientism and the goofy theories of men could see past that paint job , but they just don't . AS they will continue to argue about how we evolved from the paint job. yes folks monkey brown is the same as human brown ! but one is a Ferrari and one is just a willy's Jeep .

Jean M
03-01-2016, 11:25 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/12172157/Britains-first-black-and-white-twins-born-from-same-egg.html

Britain's 'first black and white twins' born from same egg. Despite their contrasting skin tones, baby sisters are genetically identical and are thought to be the first of their kind in the country

Tomenable
03-02-2016, 01:05 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/12172157/Britains-first-black-and-white-twins-born-from-same-egg.html

Britain's 'first black and white twins' born from same egg. Despite their contrasting skin tones, baby sisters are genetically identical and are thought to be the first of their kind in the country

They also have different eye colours. But it is very strange - maybe they are not totally, 100%, genetically identical?

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Skin_color

http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Eye_color

crossover
03-02-2016, 11:45 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/12172157/Britains-first-black-and-white-twins-born-from-same-egg.html

Britain's 'first black and white twins' born from same egg. Despite their contrasting skin tones, baby sisters are genetically identical and are thought to be the first of their kind in the country

their skin colors like similar imo. i wouldn't call the lighter one fair skinned, just a bit lighter than the other twin. it's their eye colors that contrast more

Tomenable
03-13-2016, 04:11 PM
These are supposedly twins, but how is it possible? They can't be genetically 100% identical, can they?:

They don't actually look so similar (even without taking into account pigmentation):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIUK2KSbvvI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIUK2KSbvvI

Probably different fathers (mother slept with 2 men in a short space of time) ???

ArmandoR1b
03-13-2016, 04:44 PM
These are supposedly twins, but how is it possible? They can't be genetically 100% identical, can they?:

They don't actually look so similar (even without taking into account pigmentation):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIUK2KSbvvI


They are obviously fraternal twins (dizygotic) and not (monozygotic) identical twins.


Probably different fathers (mother slept with 2 men in a short space of time) ???
That has happened before. It's called heteropaternal superfecundation but I doubt that is the case here. It's probably just a case of the pale-skinned, redhead, blue-eyed girl getting the features from the father or the European side of the mother but not the African side.

Xuipa
03-13-2016, 04:44 PM
oh yes they can be but tiny spots that no one will every find, or like a break in the colors male coding in the paint job. but they have the same two male lines and those colors are all there . science only see the paint job and even in that they don't know what they are looking at.. like everyone is all up into how natives who are red heads were european and not real natives........ red and black is a friend of jack.. you can't have black without red showing up occasionally.

so most asiatics who are dark haired that never have red heads are brown haired not black headed ... blond goes with brown genes and red with black hair genes . the light color it is like a spot created/ triggered by conditions probably like that individuals needs for say vit D just to name a few things which might be triggers that create stops for the individuals even with the same genes ..

so to think of how all this anthro "science" as is all so called sciences is based on what the people think they see.

Megalophias
03-13-2016, 04:45 PM
These are supposedly twins, but how is it possible? They can't be genetically 100% identical, can they?:

Fraternal twins, sisters the same age, not identical twins.

Tomenable
03-13-2016, 04:50 PM
OK, I'm not sure why but I assumed that they are from one egg.

Tomenable
03-13-2016, 04:51 PM
What about other examples in this thread - were they also fraternal twins?

In such case, there is nothing surprising about different pigmentation.

But fratelnal twins are of course NOT 100% genetically the same...

If you find different pigmentation in identical twins - that would be strange.

Tomenable
03-13-2016, 05:06 PM
That has happened before. It's called heteropaternal superfecundation but I doubt that is the case here. It's probably just a case of the pale-skinned, redhead, blue-eyed girl getting the features from the father or the European side of the mother but not the African side.

Yes, they have different phenotypes, but genetically both are ~75% Euro + ~25% African (if dad is ~100% Euro and mom 50/50).

ArmandoR1b
03-13-2016, 05:22 PM
Yes, they have different phenotypes, but genetically both are ~75% Euro + ~25% African (if dad is ~100% Euro and mom 50/50).

Even though what you are saying isn't what I was saying in the comment that you quoted - Full siblings, of mixed parents, normally don't have exactly the same ethnic percentages and sometimes differ by as much as 10%. For instance, the mother is half Black and half White. One daughter could have easily inherited more of the Black ancestry from the mother and the other daughter could have inherited more of the White ancestry from the mother. So even though they both have half of the mother's DNA they don't have the exact same half. The reason why siblings are different, other than identical twins, is they don't inherit the same half from each parent. These siblings aren't going to have the exact same ethnic percentages but that doesn't mean the difference in ethnic percentages falls in line with their features. It would be interesting to see their ethnic percentages though.

Tomenable
03-13-2016, 05:33 PM
I know. That's why I added "~" in front of percentages.

They are both 75 plus/minus several percent Euro (yes, one could be over 80, the other one under 70).


The reason why siblings are different, other than identical twins, is they don't inherit the same half from each parent.

But genes responsible for pigmentation are quite few, they don't have to be much different genome-wide.


These siblings aren't going to have the exact same ethnic percentages but that doesn't mean the difference in ethnic percentages falls in line with their features. It would be interesting to see their ethnic percentages though.

Exactly.

ArmandoR1b
03-13-2016, 06:43 PM
I know. That's why I added "~" in front of percentages.

They are both 75 plus/minus several percent Euro (yes, one could be over 80, the other one under 70).
And I hadn't said anything that indicated anything different in the post of mine you initially quoted.


But genes responsible for pigmentation are quite few, they don't have to be much different genome-wide.
That doesn't negate the fact that the genes responsible for the dark girl are definitely from the mother and I never stated nor inferred that they have to be much different genome-wide so I am confused as to the reason for initially quoting me.

Odyss
03-13-2016, 08:14 PM
It's common to see such variations in rencent multigenerational mixes(MGM). By the way not even true twins are 100% identical.

thetick
03-14-2016, 11:57 AM
It's common to see such variations in rencent multigenerational mixes(MGM). By the way not even true twins are 100% identical.

Might be a language barrier but there is no such classification , "true twins".

As mentioned before there are fraternal twins (dizygotic) and identical twins (monozygotic). The later are 100% identical genetically.

dp
03-14-2016, 04:26 PM
all this talk of phenotype and races reminds me of a case of where members of the Greek government were under the misconception that every Roma has black hair and eyes.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/mystery-gypsy-girls-identity-confirmed-dna/story?id=20681522

see also http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/28/world/europe/bulgaria-roma-parents/

Just like not every African is black.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/mystery-gypsy-girls-identity-confirmed-dna/story?id=20681522

dp :-)

Jane Doe
03-21-2016, 04:54 PM
this shows very well the concept of "races" is nonsense

Yes those one drop rule "colour" based races are bs , most of this cases the "black" parents already look mixed race and not fully SSA.

Morci
03-21-2016, 07:56 PM
Yes those one drop rule "colour" based races are bs , most of this cases the "black" parents already look mixed race and not fully SSA.

That is the case for the majority of people of colonial African descent in the Western Hemisphere.

Cornella
03-22-2016, 03:00 AM
It's interesting to see these children ten or so years on. They often look more clearly mixed, but not always. Emma Bunton's children are a clear case of looking white for a few years, and then becoming visibly mixed as they got older.