View Full Version : I-S12077

03-02-2016, 04:47 PM
Hello all,

I have recently had my Y Chromosome tested with Britains DNA and I was told I was I-S12077 which belongs to the 'S390' subtype of the I-S24 group. I have done some digging and I think this is closely linked to the I2A2A haplogroup. But I cannot find any particular information on I-S12077.
I understand basic genetics and inheritance but I am new to this and would appreciate any help in deciphering these results. I have always believed that my Paternal line (due to my surname Fraser) would be of Norman or some form of Scottish Heritage. But having searched for I2a2 online, I see that it is highly prevalent in the Balkans and eastern europe.
There was a small chance that my Paternal line could instead be that of Jewish man of Central/Eastern European Heritage. I am unsure if this fits better in with the results than the Fraser name.
Basically if someone could explain to me more information about what my results mean and help me interpret them I would be very grateful!
I can copy and paste the markers which I tested positive for if that will help.


03-02-2016, 11:12 PM
Hi Joel, Not sure if you already know this but S12077 can be found in the YFULL y-chromsome tree here http://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS1977/ . It occurs at the same branch point as I-CTS1977 and is downstream of I-Z161>I-L801>CTS1977. It is quite an old SNP with estimated TMRCA at 3400 ybp. Part of the text available from Eupedia for the I-Z161 subclade (TMRCA 9700ybp) is as follows:
“I2-Z161 is thought to have been propagated around Europe by the Danish Vikings (Britain, Normandy, Sicily), the Swedish Vikings (Baltic, Russia, Ukraine), the Goths (Moldova, Balkans, Italy, south-west France, Spain), the Suebi (Portugal and Galicia), the Lombards (attested by a hotspot in Campobasso, Molise), and the Franks (Rhineland, Belgium).”
This could easily fit with a Norman origin as you suspected. There are many subclades downstream of S12077(CTS1977) in the YFULL tree. Knowing which of these you belong to and the geographic distribution of other members of the same subclade would help you sort this out.

04-08-2016, 06:01 PM
S12077 is (at least at the moment) equivalent to CTS1977 which are the normally used name. Looking of a map of CTS1977 with ancestors known before 1750, these ancestors lived in North West Europe from UK Belgium Netherland and West Germany (with a single in the western part of the former East Germany). It would interesting to know which subclade of CTS1977 You belong to


You are coming closer to genealogical time frames. Congratulations

10-01-2018, 04:21 PM
My surnameís White, also CTS-1977, with my genetic markers showing strongest in NW Scotland and East Midlands. Like five years back there was a test ran on a group of 51 men from Normandy, today. Seven of those 51, showed belonging to I1 haplogroup. The other 44 men showed belonging to the typical Germanic R1b(U106) haplogroup. Which is perceived to be the haplogroup most common among the Normans as well as the Franks they descended from. The fact CTS-1977 is downstream, itís possible for a Norman to have possessed it. However, it is much, much, much too old for it to have been propagated by and unique to the Normans. Not only is CTS-1977 rather dispersed, but very rare any where it shows up. From that I donít think someone CTS-1977 From the Isles descended from the same people as someone CTS-1977 in the Netherlands or Belgium did. Iím CTS-1977 but have zero ties in my dna to any west Germanic places.