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Armenis
03-20-2016, 09:22 AM
In the U152 subclades project we find the group FGC13620 with kit. no.N119885 Giovanni Domenicus Rabai.

Vadim Urasin from YFull has confirmed to me that Rabai is FGC13620- with ancestral C at ChrY:7810808.

Despite this, Rabai has tested positive for 8389832 (BY3478) which is downstream of FGC13620.

Other FGC13620+ individuals named Wright and Williams are positive for 8389832 (BY3478).

There must be an explanation.

To complicate matters even further:

Alex Williamson from the Big Tree project found a new SNP R-~22429690-A-C that Rabai (N119885), Arias (N60267) and Sgriccia (N21805) share.

Needless to say, Alex Williamson confirmed that all three of these kits were indeed negative for FGC13620 (7810808).

Armenis
03-24-2016, 07:57 AM
Francalacci et al. 2013 sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008) is positive for 23073902 (A/T) known now as Y20253 by YFull. Other samples that are positive for this SNP are all FGC13620+ and include Rabai (N119885), Walker (N34331), Williams (24268) and Wright (22677).

The YFull tree does not have FGC13620 as a branch from U152 > L2 > FGC13620 as is to be found in the U152 Subclades project at FTDNA. In fact, YFull has Y20253 (23073902 A-T) branching from U152 > L2 > Y20253. link: https://yfull.com/tree/R-L2/

Vadim Urasin confirmed to me that this was accurate and that Rabai (N119885 FTDNA) (YF04567 YFull) was FGC13620- after having gone through his BAM file. This contradicts the U152 subclades project. link: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152?iframe=yresults

The YFull tree may be accurate as ERS257008 from Sardinia (Francalacci et al. 2013) is also FGC13620- suggesting that Y20253 is upstream from FGC13620.

The problem is that there are two kits, Armenis (169458) and Cognevich (N28331) that are FGC13620+ and negative for Y20253 making the location of Y20253 a mystery.

Ravai
03-27-2016, 07:42 AM
Good morning,

According FTDNA, I'm L2> BY3485> BY3478, attached image. I do not know why I appear as FGC13620 in https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R1b-U152?iframe=yresults

Nevertheless, in https://www.familytreedna.com/my/y-dna-haplotree . There is no reference to FGC13620. Neither positive and negative. I guess this branch, for lack of data, still being built.

Regards

David Rabai (Rabarius)

8386

Ravai
03-27-2016, 07:55 AM
My hypothesis is

L2
|______ BY3504, BY3485
............|____________________ BY3478, BY3484
.................................................. .......................|____________________ FGC13620
.................................................. .................................................. ..........|_______________________ FGC13616
.................................................. .................................................. ..........|_______________________ BY3481, BY3505, BY3501


Regards

David

Ravai
03-27-2016, 08:26 AM
Surname Tree

L2
|__BY3504 (Walker)
.....|_____BY3478 (Rabai, Sardinian sample 998)
...............|______FGC13620
..........................|___FGC13616 (Armenis, Cognevic)
..........................|___BY3481 (Williams, Wright)

Regards

Armenis
04-09-2016, 09:07 PM
BY3478 = 8389832 (C/T) [Rabai (N119885), Williams (24268) and Wright (22677)]

R-Y20253 = 23073902 (A/T) [sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008), Rabai (N119885)]

R-~22429690 (A-C) [Sgriccia (N21805), Rabai (N119885), Arias (N60267), Miller (265523)]

Ravai
04-10-2016, 07:54 AM
Sardiniam Sample is also positive for BY3478 :)

Regards

Armenis
04-16-2016, 03:08 PM
The new R1b-L2 SNP Pack from FTDNA is now selling for $99.

All members of this R1b-L2 branch should consider this test as it provides very good value for money for what is currently available on the market.

You need to go to your myFTDNA account, click on the blue "Upgrade" at the top and then click on the blue "Buy Now" in the "Advanced Tests" box. On the "Select a Product" screen, select "SNP Pack" and then a list will pop up. Click on any pack to see what's in it.

This test includes the following SNPs on the haplotree:
U152, L2, Z49, Z367, L196, PF7610, CTS10009, CTS3080, CTS5689, A6454, BY2823, DF110, FGC10516, FGC22501, FGC5301, FGC5344, L408, PF6658, S1567, DF103, FGC14641, L199, FGC22538, FGC22516, FGC22528, FGC22533, FGC22500, FGC22503, FGC22512, FGC22513, A1704, A1706, A1717, A1722, A6455, BY1020, BY1145, BY2381, BY2825, BY2826, BY3477, BY3478, BY3479, BY3480, BY3481, BY3482, BY3483, BY3484, BY3485, BY3486, BY3490, BY3491, BY3492, BY3493, BY3496, BY3497, BY3501, BY3503, BY3504, BY3505, BY3506, BY3507, BY3508, BY3509, BY3510, BY3512, BY3513, BY3514, BY771, BY806, BY831, FGC13617, FGC32882, FGC36273, FGC4166, FGC4177, FGC4183, FGC4193, FGC4213, FGC5303, FGC5306, FGC5308, FGC8154, FGC8158, FGC8178, L409, PF7609, PH3790, PR5365, S1555, S1561, S1566, S1569, S1570, S1573, S18462, Y11667, Y11931, Y11932, Y11933, Y3960, Y3961, Y3964, Y6763, Z7054

This test also includes the following SNPs that are NOT on the haplotree but are tested for in this test:
BY2895, FGC13620, FGC5338, FGC5345, FGC5356, BY2824, BY3487, BY3489, BY3498, BY3499, BY3500, BY3502, BY3511, FGC10525, FGC10536, FGC10543, FGC13619, FGC13621, FGC13623, FGC29428, FGC29470, FGC4220, PF7599, PF7603, PF7604, PF7605, Y11232

MitchellSince1893
04-16-2016, 04:57 PM
The new R1b-L2 SNP Pack from FTDNA is now selling for $99.

All members of this R1b-L2 branch should consider this test...

All,
Please take the time to review the L2 SNP list before you order. For example, if you already know you are Z49 then don't order this test. There are no SNPs below Z49 on the L2 SNP pack. Instead wait to order the Z49 SNP pack.

I haven't reviewed the other L2 branches' SNPs in the pack, but you would be well advised to do so before you order.

Otherwise you may be wasting your money.

Bdeed
04-17-2016, 09:22 AM
Useful to know. Seeing as I had no call on either z49 or df27 (which I now know is not a negative finding unlike as I was first told!). Looks like my best bet would be to stick to big y? Better for the wider research to..

Ravai
04-17-2016, 12:26 PM
Hi All,

If the pocket allows, the best option is Big-Y.

Regards

Armenis
04-18-2016, 04:15 AM
Hi All,

If the pocket allows, the best option is Big-Y.

Regards

Not always. In my case the BigY test failed to test SNPs that were tested in other kits. Not sure how consistent the BigY is?

This R1b-L2 test pack is very specific, reliable and consistent... unlike the BigY test.

The BigY is still good for exploring new SNPs though. But for building on to the Ytree it is not as useful as a specific test pack. This helps our specific subclde of L2+ individuals more than other subclades as it includes most of our subclades downstream SNPs. Good value and lucky for BY3485+ candidates.

Ravai
04-18-2016, 02:56 PM
Ok, let's do the test?

Regards

Armenis
04-19-2016, 08:18 AM
In alphabetical order here are the SNPs that mark each of the nineteen (19) branches of L2, according to FTDNA.

A6454
BY1145
BY2823
BY2895
CTS5689
DF103
DF110
FGC10543
FGC13620 [This is the new BY3485 branch]
FGC14641
FGC22501
FGC5301
FGC5338
L199
PF7609
S1555
Y11667
Z367
Z49

Seventeen (17) of these nineteen branches have downstream SNPs covered in the new R1b-L2 test pack. The pack includes approximately 125 NEW SNPs, by covering 17 of the above 19 new branches emanating from L2. As mentioned, Z367 and Z49 will have their own specific packs with lots of SNPs in them.

Attached is an outline tree of what's in the R1b-L2 SNP Pack with position number details. Testing multiple SNPs in a block is a form of validation (cross-checking). This is critical. If an SNP is missing, it is still possible to let FTDNA know as late additions have been accepted in introductory versions of the R1b-L2 pack but we may have only a 24-36 hour window to submit late-adds. Credit for this information goes to Mike W.

8925

Armenis
04-19-2016, 08:33 AM
The FGC13620 branch has the following SNPs in the R1b-L2 test pack with the following phylogenetic order under review:

FGC13620 07810808-C-T L2>FGC13620
FGC13617 02796841-T-C FGC13620>FGC13617
FGC13619 07388811-A-G FGC13620>FGC13619
FGC13621 07981457-T-G FGC13620>FGC13621
FGC13623 08617548-G-A FGC13620>FGC13623
BY3478 08389832-C-T FGC13617>BY3478
BY3484 08557048-G-A FGC13617>BY3484
BY3485 08600829-A-G FGC13617>BY3485
BY3504 06812286-A-G FGC13617>BY3504
BY3481 08512043-A-G BY3478>BY3481
BY3501 06643898-A-G BY3478>BY3501
BY3505 07147847-A-G BY3478>BY3505


New developments:

BY3478 = 8389832 (C-T) [sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008), Rabai (N119885), Williams (24268) and Wright (22677)]

R-Y20253 = 23073902 (A-T) [sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008), Rabai (N119885)] [Discovery by Yfull]

R-~22429690 (A-C) [Sgriccia (N21805), Rabai (N119885), Arias (N60267), Miller (265523)] [Discovery by Alex Williamson]

-------------------------------------------

Mikewww
04-19-2016, 03:49 PM
.... The pack includes approximately 125 NEW SNPs, by covering 17 of the above 19 new branches emanating from L2. ...
Hopefully I didn't say that exactly. There are about 125 SNPs in the L2 (xZ367 xZ49) SNP Pack, but I would not say they are all "NEW". Also keep in mind, as far as credits go, I'm not really deserving of any credit other than facilitating FTDNA SNP pack coverage for R1b subclades (I'm the lead R1b project admin). Most of the real work of phylogenetic analysis for U152 is mainly being done by another volunteer, Richard Rocca, who you are lucky to have.

Armenis
04-19-2016, 04:32 PM
Hopefully I didn't say that exactly. There are about 125 SNPs in the L2 (xZ367 xZ49) SNP Pack, but I would not say they are all "NEW". Also keep in mind, as far as credits go, I'm not really deserving of any credit other than facilitating FTDNA SNP pack coverage for R1b subclades (I'm the lead R1b project admin). Most of the real work of phylogenetic analysis for U152 is mainly being done by another volunteer, Richard Rocca

Thank-you for clarifying some of the finer details. Richard Rocca is credited with the phylogentic analysis of the U152 subclades project. Thank-you for making the SNP positions available, we have a number of issues with the FGC13620 branch that need clarifying. I hope we can confirm the phylogeny with some assistance.

MitchellSince1893
04-19-2016, 07:21 PM
Reposted in u152 snp pack thread

Armenis
04-20-2016, 05:33 AM
We have our own project now. All individuals who are FGC13620+, BY3485+ and BY3478+ can join the project. Anybody who is a close STR match is also encouraged to join.

R-U152+L2+BY3485
aka The FGC13620 Project

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-u152l2by3485/activity-feed

Alex Armenis

Ravai
04-21-2016, 11:36 AM
According to the analysis of "BAM file" by yfull, i am:

FGC13620 07810808-C-T (C-C)
FGC13617 02796841-T-C (T-T)
FGC13619 07388811-A-G (A-A)
FGC13621 07981457-T-G (T-T)
FGC13623 08617548-G-A (G-G)
BY3478 08389832-C-T (POSITIVE)
BY3484 08557048-G-A (POSITIVE)
BY3485 08600829-A-G (POSITIVE)
BY3504 06812286-A-G (POSITIVE)
BY3481 08512043-A-G (A-A)
BY3501 06643898-A-G (A-A)
BY3505 07147847-A-G (A-A)

Regards

Armenis
04-22-2016, 07:43 PM
New developments:

BY3478 = 8389832 (C-T) [sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008), Rabai (N119885), Williams (24268) and Wright (22677)]

R-Y20253 = 23073902 (A-T) [sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008), Rabai (N119885)] [Discovery by Yfull]

R-~22429690 (A-C) [Sgriccia (N21805), Rabai (N119885), Arias (N60267), Miller (265523)] [Discovery by Alex Williamson]

---------------------------

BY4246 = Y20253 (23073902 A-T)

Individuals positive for this SNP:
1. Walker
2. Rabai
3. sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008)
4. Wright
5. Williams

Armenis
04-24-2016, 05:48 AM
BY4246 = Y20253 (23073902 A-T)

Individuals positive for this SNP:
1. Walker
2. Rabai
3. sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008)
4. Wright
5. Williams

FTDNA has named the new SNP BY4245 = 22429690 A-C.

Individuals positive for this SNP:
1. Sgriccia (N21805)
2. Rabai (N119885)
3. Arias (N60267)
4. Miller (265523)

Armenis
04-25-2016, 09:16 AM
BY4246 = Y20253 (23073902 A-T)

Individuals positive for this SNP:
1. Walker
2. Rabai
3. sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008)
4. Wright
5. Williams

Unique variants in kit N119885 (Rabai):
16173660 [Wright & Williams L2>R-BY3481]
22480325 [Wright & Williams]
BY3478 [Wright & Williams]
BY3484 [Wright & Williams]
16310463 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
23330922 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
BY3485 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
17866904 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
22957938 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
14849733 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
BY4246 [Wright, Walker, Williams & sample 998 from Sardinia (ERS257008)]
9101137 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
13820325 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
16847342 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
8644278 [Wright, Walker & Williams]
BY3504 [Wright, Walker & Williams]

Armenis
05-04-2016, 11:23 AM
FGC10530 and FGC13617.

The FTDNA haplotree has added FGC13617. It is on the same branch as FGC10530. There is a single downstream SNP, namely BY3480.

Armenis
05-07-2016, 03:30 PM
FGC10530 and FGC13617.

The FTDNA haplotree has added FGC13617. It is on the same branch as FGC10530. There is a single downstream SNP, namely BY3480.

I went through my BAM file to see whether or not I am positive for FGC10530 and I think there is an issue with this SNP.

Firstly, the location is noted as 7722917 (CTA/CA)?

The question mark I assume relates to the exact location of the insertion C.

If I understand it correctly, the derived (normal = FGC10530-) values for 7722917 to 7722920 are CTAAA.
The ancestral (mutated = FGC10530+) values are CTACA with the added C insertion.

I searched for the C insertion at 7722917 to 7722920 in my BAM file and found an insertion with a note attached saying that it is A. The colour of this insertion was however not GREEN (A) and was instead BLUE (C) which as I understand it, denotes C.

What's more is that the insertion is not at 7722917 but rather on the cusp of 7722919/20.

jeskos
05-26-2016, 09:12 PM
Today my R1b-L2 SNP Pack results came in with BY3484+, BY3485+, BY3478+, BY3504+, FGC4183+ , but I also have FGC13620-

Acque agitate
05-26-2016, 09:30 PM
Today my R1b-L2 SNP Pack results came in with BY3484+, BY3485+, BY3478+, BY3504+, FGC4183+ , but I also have FGC13620-


At this point it seems clear that FTDNA has a problem with FGC4183.
I think it's appropriate that FTDNA perform the checks.
Jonas Eaton too is positive despite FGC report the opposite.

You may provide your number kit?

jeskos
05-26-2016, 09:50 PM
At this point it seems clear that FTDNA has a problem with FGC4183.
I think it's appropriate that FTDNA perform the checks.
Jonas Eaton too is positive despite FGC report the opposite.

You may provide your number kit?
It's E4959 (Stampa)
Probably "DF103,FGC4183" must be changed to "FGC4183 > DF103", or?

Armenis
05-27-2016, 08:38 AM
Today my R1b-L2 SNP Pack results came in with BY3484+, BY3485+, BY3478+, BY3504+, FGC4183+ , but I also have FGC13620-

Thanks, we seem to have another person named Wright who has done the L2 snp pack and he is positive for BY3485, BY3478, BY3484, BY3501, BY3504, BY3481 and FGC13620 as well as FGC4183.

Have you sent your BAM file to Alex Williamson for analysis and placement on the Big Tree?

Acque agitate
05-27-2016, 01:23 PM
It's E4959 (Stampa)
Probably "DF103,FGC4183" must be changed to "FGC4183 > DF103", or?

Hello Jeskos,
it seems highly likely that:
a) You does not belong to the group FGC4183> DF103;
b) You belongs to the (problematic) group L2> + BY3484, BY3485 +, + BY3478, BY3504 + (problematic because you can not understand the role of FGC13620. Problem of FTDNA test?)

jeskos
05-27-2016, 04:10 PM
Thanks, we seem to have another person named Wright who has done the L2 snp pack and he is positive for BY3485, BY3478, BY3484, BY3501, BY3504, BY3481 and FGC13620 as well as FGC4183.

Have you sent your BAM file to Alex Williamson for analysis and placement on the Big Tree?
Sorry, but I did not get a BAM file as it wasn't a BIGY but just a L2 SNP Pack test.
Jesko

jeskos
05-27-2016, 04:13 PM
Hello Jeskos,
it seems highly likely that:
a) You does not belong to the group FGC4183> DF103;
b) You belongs to the (problematic) group L2> + BY3484, BY3485 +, + BY3478, BY3504 + (problematic because you can not understand the role of FGC13620. Problem of FTDNA test?)
Thank you, I hope that FTDNA is going to fix it.

jeskos
05-28-2016, 06:59 PM
Today I received an e-mail of our U152 group administrator Steve:

FGC13620 has been removed from this group.

FGC4183 is not responding correctly.

R.Rocca
05-29-2016, 01:40 AM
I went through my BAM file to see whether or not I am positive for FGC10530 and I think there is an issue with this SNP.

Firstly, the location is noted as 7722917 (CTA/CA)?

The question mark I assume relates to the exact location of the insertion C.

If I understand it correctly, the derived (normal = FGC10530-) values for 7722917 to 7722920 are CTAAA.
The ancestral (mutated = FGC10530+) values are CTACA with the added C insertion.

I searched for the C insertion at 7722917 to 7722920 in my BAM file and found an insertion with a note attached saying that it is A. The colour of this insertion was however not GREEN (A) and was instead BLUE (C) which as I understand it, denotes C.

What's more is that the insertion is not at 7722917 but rather on the cusp of 7722919/20.

Please note that FGC10530 is 15661086(G/A). Deletion 7722917(CTA/CA) is a different SNP at the same level as FGC10530.

Armenis
05-29-2016, 08:20 PM
Please note that FGC10530 is 15661086(G/A). Deletion 7722917(CTA/CA) is a different SNP at the same level as FGC10530.

That is why my match on Big Y subclade filter is Simonetti
B3593.

Richard, I am really confused now. Do you have a clue as to why FTDNA has paired me to Simonetti? Do I have the 7722917 (CTA/CA) SNP? I am not sure whether they made a mistake?

Armenis
06-06-2016, 08:49 AM
Hello Jeskos,
it seems highly likely that:
a) You does not belong to the group FGC4183> DF103;
b) You belongs to the (problematic) group L2> + BY3484, BY3485 +, + BY3478, BY3504 + (problematic because you can not understand the role of FGC13620. Problem of FTDNA test?)

The group has changed to L2 > BY4245 > BY3485

The SNP FGC13620 has been removed from the phylogenetic tree due to it's unreliability.