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Dorkymon
03-22-2016, 12:59 AM
Here I will exhibit the Romanian results that I have managed to collect. I will try to update this thread regularly when possible.

I will divide Romania into three broad regions, which will be used to indicate the origin of the individual. They are the following: Southern Romania = Muntenia + Oltenia + Dobrogea (historic principality of Wallachia), Western Romania = Transilvania + Banat + Crisana + Maramures and Eastern Romania = Moldova + Bucovina (the part of the principality of Moldavia that's within the borders of Romania).


Results:

1. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H9a

http://i.imgur.com/vdW1yf5.png
http://i.imgur.com/Z6mUui4.png

2. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: H2a2a

http://i.imgur.com/6A7VBt7.png
http://i.imgur.com/vFfmWPW.png

3. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: H2a2a

http://i.imgur.com/AkELCb4.png
http://i.imgur.com/sGhEsOh.png

4. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: H2a2a

http://i.imgur.com/SdUnYca.png
http://i.imgur.com/FRcZKNn.png

5. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: K1b2b

http://i.imgur.com/a1nBlCo.png
http://i.imgur.com/HqLZax7.png

6. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: HV0

http://i.imgur.com/msDVRl9.png
http://i.imgur.com/igRs8wO.png

7. Southern Romania Y-DNA: I2a2b, mtDNA: H7

http://i.imgur.com/hPO3rLT.png
http://i.imgur.com/VJSWLfJ.png

8. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: X2

http://i.imgur.com/pMQZIOR.png
http://i.imgur.com/jaWfQDb.png

9. Eastern Romania (myself) Y-DNA: I2a1b, mtDNA: T2a1b

http://i.imgur.com/Zab642Z.png
http://i.imgur.com/o9h5VsV.png

10. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: W1

http://i.imgur.com/RRhMmwQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/TDopZvv.png


One important aspect that was probably noticed by yourselves as well is the presence of the East Asian component in most samples. I would need to get my hands on more data in order to find out if that's a mere coincidence or something that is characteristic for Romanians.

Dorkymon
03-22-2016, 12:59 AM
Continued

11. Southern Romania Y-DNA: E1b1b1a2, mtDNA: H9a

http://i.imgur.com/ERs0AGY.png
http://i.imgur.com/4X7Ui9P.png

12. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H5

http://i.imgur.com/fmqalhK.png
http://i.imgur.com/6ozjouw.png

13. Western Romania Y-DNA: N, mtDNA: U2e1a

http://i.imgur.com/QmaPx6H.png
http://i.imgur.com/2JcoXju.png

14. Western Romania Y-DNA: J2a1b1, mtDNA: HV

http://i.imgur.com/9Uf5GbZ.png
http://i.imgur.com/um6SDNU.png

15. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: J1c5

http://i.imgur.com/qGf3kJk.png
http://i.imgur.com/ta7vPSV.png

16. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/MpU489e.png
http://i.imgur.com/1a9X0BD.png

17. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/pUbl6mz.png
http://i.imgur.com/KVPJ7SB.png


Bonus:

Szekler from Central Transylvania Y-DNA: R1b1b2a, mtDNA: H6a1b

http://i.imgur.com/ogIownc.png
http://i.imgur.com/nz2NYgd.png

That would be it for today.

eastara
03-23-2016, 01:13 PM
I also share with hundreds of Balkan people on 23andMe.
My impression is that Romanians are not a homogeneous ethnicity, which is explicable in view of different others they assimilated on their current territory.
However, those who used to live in the original Wallahia, i.e South and East of the Carpathian mountains are very similar to Bulgarians. Their results are more consistent with the South Western Balkan, than with the North and North West. It remains to be seen after aDNA testing if this was inherited from the original early Medieval population with some direct Slavic input from the North, or due to more recent population movement from areas South of the Danube, where the Slavic admixture actually happened.

Afshar
03-23-2016, 02:47 PM
I would expect the Szekely had significant more East asian than Romanians, but from your 2 samples its not the case.
Do you also have Szekely from Bukovina?

gravetti
03-23-2016, 03:01 PM
I would expect the Szekely had significant more East asian than Romanians, but from your 2 samples its not the case.
Do you also have Szekely from Bukovina?

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/hungarian-bukovina-surnames/about/background

This is a Y-DNA project to investigate the genetic orgins and family history of the people who lived in the five Hungarian villages of Bukovina (Andrásfalva, Hadikfalva, Istensegíts, Fogadjisten, and Józseffalva). The villages were founded in the 1780's by Hungarian-speaking settlers after Austria acquired Bukovina from the Ottoman Empire. The majority of the settlers were Roman Catholic Székely from Transylvania, especially from the counties of Csík and Háromszék. A smaller number were Calvinists, who settled mainly in Andrásfalva. Some have been traced back to Szatmár-Németi and Nagybanya, and others to Maros County. Over the years, some people of other ethnic groups were absorbed into the village populations (predominately ethnic Germans, but also a few Romanians, Ukrainians, Poles, and Ruthenes).

Afshar
03-24-2016, 02:01 PM
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/hungarian-bukovina-surnames/about/background

This is a Y-DNA project to investigate the genetic orgins and family history of the people who lived in the five Hungarian villages of Bukovina (Andrásfalva, Hadikfalva, Istensegíts, Fogadjisten, and Józseffalva). The villages were founded in the 1780's by Hungarian-speaking settlers after Austria acquired Bukovina from the Ottoman Empire. The majority of the settlers were Roman Catholic Székely from Transylvania, especially from the counties of Csík and Háromszék. A smaller number were Calvinists, who settled mainly in Andrásfalva. Some have been traced back to Szatmár-Németi and Nagybanya, and others to Maros County. Over the years, some people of other ethnic groups were absorbed into the village populations (predominately ethnic Germans, but also a few Romanians, Ukrainians, Poles, and Ruthenes).

Reason I asked is that a significant percentage of Szekely have the Q(1a1b1) haplogroup which is theorized to be of Hunnic origin. I would expect to see that back in the autosomal makeup of the people that region.

Crimean
03-24-2016, 03:19 PM
@Dorkymon

Have you uploaded in the Gedmatch?

Ignis90
03-24-2016, 07:56 PM
Interesting how consistent the very minor East Asian is.


Does anybody share with Baboon (Mary's husband?). Even if he's a [unique] outlier, it would be interesting to see the Balkan score.

Dorkymon
03-24-2016, 08:01 PM
@Dorkymon

Have you uploaded in the Gedmatch?

Can you actually download the raw data of the ones you share with?

Crimean
03-25-2016, 09:06 AM
I wondered the MDLP K23 admixture results.

Dorkymon
03-25-2016, 02:07 PM
I wondered the MDLP K23 admixture results.

I can only share mine at the moment, as I don't have access to the raw data of the ones I've posted.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 35.04
2 Caucasian 29.52
3 European_Early_Farmers 18
4 Near_East 4.1
5 Ancestral_Altaic 3.82
6 South_Central_Asian 3.42
7 Tungus-Altaic 1.57
8 North_African 1.29
9 South_East_Asian 1.11
10 Arctic 0.89
11 Australoid 0.38
12 East_Siberian 0.29
13 Melano_Polynesian 0.28
14 Archaic_Human 0.15
15 Austronesian 0.1
16 Archaic_African 0.04

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 3.52
2 Hungarian ( ) 3.88
3 Slovenian ( ) 3.89
4 Czech ( ) 5.29
5 Serb_Serbia ( ) 6.01
6 Slovak ( ) 6.23
7 Austrian ( ) 6.67
8 Croat ( ) 6.99
9 Serb_BH ( ) 7.13
10 Bosnian ( ) 7.25
11 Croat_BH ( ) 8.02
12 Montenegrian ( ) 8.08
13 Ukrainian_West ( ) 8.11
14 Kashub ( ) 8.16
15 Sorb ( ) 9.18
16 German ( ) 9.65
17 German_East ( ) 10.4
18 Bulgarian ( ) 10.69
19 Macedonian ( ) 10.8
20 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 11.15

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.7% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) + 48.3% Finn_West ( ) @ 2.06
2 53.3% Finn_West ( ) + 46.7% Central_Greek ( ) @ 2.19
3 50.5% Greek_Thessaly ( ) + 49.5% Finn_West ( ) @ 2.19
4 58.1% Russian-West ( ) + 41.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.19
5 58.2% Macedonian ( ) + 41.8% Swede_Saami ( ) @ 2.22
6 50.4% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) + 49.6% Finn_West ( ) @ 2.25
7 63.1% German ( ) + 36.9% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) @ 2.3
8 51.4% Mordovian ( ) + 48.6% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 2.33
9 75.9% Austrian ( ) + 24.1% Turk_Aydin ( ) @ 2.34
10 50.5% Finn_West ( ) + 49.5% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 2.34
11 70.1% German ( ) + 29.9% Greek_Phokaia ( ) @ 2.36
12 56.1% Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) + 43.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.36
13 69% Montenegrian ( ) + 31% Finn_West ( ) @ 2.37
14 67.7% German ( ) + 32.3% Central_Greek ( ) @ 2.38
15 54.2% Russian-Upper-Volga ( ) + 45.8% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.39
16 56.4% Russian_Meshtchyora ( ) + 43.6% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 2.41
17 65.5% Montenegrian ( ) + 34.5% Swede_Saami ( ) @ 2.41
18 64.3% German ( ) + 35.7% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 2.44
19 59.7% Greek_Northwest ( ) + 40.3% Finnish_FIN ( ) @ 2.46
20 50.1% Mordovian ( ) + 49.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 2.47

Dorkymon
03-25-2016, 09:59 PM
18. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/efRWZmu.png
http://i.imgur.com/DSGbQSB.png

19. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N1c1, mtDNA: H5b

http://i.imgur.com/OeqBdh1.png
http://i.imgur.com/jdEuLVU.png

20. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: E1b1b1a2, mtDNA: X2

http://i.imgur.com/fSa7zXn.png
http://i.imgur.com/fZZ4KOO.png

21. Soutern Romania Y-DNA: R1b1b2a1a1, mtDNA: J1c

http://imgur.com/hN2UqX5.png
http://imgur.com/4ThEYsx.png

Dorkymon
04-04-2016, 10:59 PM
22. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R1b1b2, mtDNA: H5

http://i.imgur.com/GxMH1Gu.png

http://i.imgur.com/2qPaWe5.png

23. Western Romania Y-DNA: I2a1b, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/1Uiuk2J.png

http://i.imgur.com/9aeCEis.png

24. Eastern Romania (50% Romanian, 50% Ruthenian (Ukrainian from Romania)) Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: J1c

http://i.imgur.com/0CgDLHU.png

http://i.imgur.com/4FyLGZA.png

25. Eastern Romania (Ruthenian) Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H9a

http://i.imgur.com/OKHvM4s.png

http://i.imgur.com/NdIDQTb.png

26. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: U5a2b

http://i.imgur.com/aTDq3Hr.png

http://i.imgur.com/DHQPrWv.png

27. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R1b1b2a, mtDNA: D4e1

http://i.imgur.com/U0O8FVV.png

http://i.imgur.com/RA42CFG.png

28. Southern Romania Y-DNA: J2, mtDNA: H1b

http://i.imgur.com/CHyxta2.png

http://i.imgur.com/8ziTgba.png

AJL
04-05-2016, 12:07 AM
Thanks for all of those.

Given the country's history, you would not be surprised to see those consistent low levels of Middle East/African, Ashkenazi, German, and Asian, particularly Mongolian, general East Asian, and Yakut, among Romanians. But the ones specifically designated Japanese are a bit surprising, no?

Dorkymon
04-05-2016, 01:58 PM
Thanks for all of those.

Given the country's history, you would not be surprised to see those consistent low levels of Middle East/African, Ashkenazi, German, and Asian, particularly Mongolian, general East Asian, and Yakut, among Romanians. But the ones specifically designated Japanese are a bit surprising, no?

No, I'm not surprised at all. In fact it goes to support the thesis that Romanians have not come from further down South, but where influenced by the early medieval migrations that occured on the territory of Romania. As the Caucasus people usually score almost pure Middle East/African, 23andme didn't really bother including them in a separate category, I suppose that this component in Romanians indicates traces of Avar and Alan admixture. The East Asian bit clearly derives from Cumans (Pechenegs), Mongolians, Huns, Tatars and all the other Turkics that conquered or settled in.

The Japanese component is as surprising as my 0.8% of Yakut ancestry (they live near the Sea of Ohotsk and the Lena River). I'm guessing that 23andme has trouble differentiating between the East Asian segments, just as it happens in the case of Western Europeans, where French & German and British & Irish usually overlaps unexpectedly.

http://i.imgur.com/o9h5VsV.png

AJL
04-05-2016, 03:16 PM
Many Europeans have low levels of Yakut, so it seems to be a surrogate for something else that is at high levels in Yakut but which ultimately comes from some other part of (perhaps central rather than northeast) Eurasia. The link to various Steppe peoples all makes perfect sense as you mention: I just haven't seen Japanese in any other West Eurasians' kits, though.

Dorkymon
04-29-2016, 04:36 PM
29. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: E1b1b1a2, mtDNA: H7

http://i.imgur.com/omRneOD.png

http://i.imgur.com/yM6Fxzu.png

30. Southern Romania Y-DNA: L1, mtDNA: K1c1

http://i.imgur.com/ffmZzAA.png

http://i.imgur.com/NzomDtD.png

31. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: J1c

http://i.imgur.com/4YL7YeR.png

http://i.imgur.com/MvY4KsB.png

32. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/ugWwKZg.png

http://i.imgur.com/sbl6GrX.png

33. Southern Romania Y-DNA: G2a5, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/xM2lxE3.png

http://i.imgur.com/U7VSNp1.png

evon
06-06-2016, 10:47 AM
It would be good if you made a spreadsheet from the data, I share with a bunch of Romani and Romanians DNA cousins etc, could add the data to the collection, but I need to be sure that I dont duplicate results you have already listed...

Dorkymon
06-06-2016, 06:31 PM
It would be good if you made a spreadsheet from the data, I share with a bunch of Romani and Romanians DNA cousins etc, could add the data to the collection, but I need to be sure that I dont duplicate results you have already listed...

I could actually use your Romanian results, including those of Romanis from Romania. Therefore, we can both benefit from exchanging info.
Let me know which format you use for your spreadsheet, either here or via PM.

evon
06-06-2016, 07:17 PM
I could actually use your Romanian results, including those of Romanis from Romania. Therefore, we can both benefit from exchanging info.
Let me know which format you use for your spreadsheet, either here or via PM.

I dont have a spreadsheet at the moment, I was hoping you would create one for Romania in general rather than rely on screenshots etc...Then I could input my data and collaborate with you to avoid duplicate entries..

Dorkymon
06-19-2016, 10:17 PM
I managed to get my hands on 6 more results. These include an ethnic Roma/Gypsy, which might be of interest to evon.


34. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/ZsRRytD.png

http://i.imgur.com/x1vCEcf.png

35. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: T2b

http://i.imgur.com/fHgH1Mb.png

http://i.imgur.com/piUe8BX.png

36. Southern Romania Y-DNA: I2a1b1, mtDNA: H

http://i.imgur.com/KO8TSxF.png

http://i.imgur.com/KLeKUe1.png

37. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H5a1

http://i.imgur.com/s868ayU.png

http://i.imgur.com/QVTUJyT.png

38. Southern Romania (Roma/Gypsy) Y-DNA: H1a, mtDNA: V1a

http://i.imgur.com/wrfpqSU.png

http://i.imgur.com/v6mSpzK.png

39. Southern Romania Y-DNA: I2a1b1, mtDNA: W3

http://i.imgur.com/ydushSg.png

http://i.imgur.com/FTVhFjT.png

Dorkymon
07-09-2016, 01:12 PM
Another batch, with which we've reached almost 50 samples.

40. Western Romania Y-DNA: I2a1b, mtDNA: H16

http://i.imgur.com/HDBCQms.png

http://i.imgur.com/F1yharX.png

41. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: T2b4

http://i.imgur.com/vqSQgBb.png

http://i.imgur.com/324TUy0.png

42. Southern Romania Y-DNA: G2a, mtDNA: H1e

http://i.imgur.com/P1JXy7H.png

http://i.imgur.com/qHZhBMb.png

43. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1b1b2a1a, mtDNA: K1a4a1

http://i.imgur.com/5s7ckW2.png

http://i.imgur.com/tJ1hUTf.png

44. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: I1, mtDNA: V1

http://i.imgur.com/WXWxN31.png

http://i.imgur.com/quwkciv.png

45. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: J1c3

http://i.imgur.com/DnL1AQV.png

http://i.imgur.com/An9MLPz.png

46. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: U5a1

http://i.imgur.com/ztY3mck.png

http://i.imgur.com/HOUJvr1.png

47. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: H14

http://i.imgur.com/1xAcdVa.png

http://i.imgur.com/aniZ7NE.png

48. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: J1c

http://i.imgur.com/cN6b8wr.png

http://i.imgur.com/aNGVphY.png

49. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: T1a1b

http://i.imgur.com/mYGPwcj.png

http://i.imgur.com/ZiFroWZ.png

Dorkymon
09-10-2016, 09:32 PM
I must have gathered at least 5 more since my last update. Will post soon.

J Man
09-11-2016, 02:23 PM
Have any Aromanian/Aromun people tested at either 23andme or FTDNA do you know?

Dorkymon
01-03-2017, 02:06 PM
Have any Aromanian/Aromun people tested at either 23andme or FTDNA do you know?

http://romaniatourism.com/romania-maps/romania-regions-map.jpg

I don't have any info on Aromanians from outside of Romania, but in Romania the descendants of Aromanians live primarily in Dobrogea. It is estimated that around 70% of the Romanian population in Dobrogea have at least some partial Aromanian ancestry. When looking at Y-DNA it can be clearly noticed that J2 has a significantly higher rate in Dobrogea than in the rest of the country, which points at Aromanians as the source for this.

These are the results of people from that region, so you can assume that they have some Aromanian ancestry:

http://i.imgur.com/QEvKfBk.png

http://i.imgur.com/VtxtW9g.png

http://i.imgur.com/twidF4S.png

http://i.imgur.com/Tk9jyrF.png

http://i.imgur.com/CVy1xHQ.png

chenmatthew0428
02-08-2017, 06:06 AM
Do you have more Roma/Gypsy results from 23andme? I am interested in their genetics.

Dorkymon
02-09-2017, 12:47 AM
Do you have more Roma/Gypsy results from 23andme? I am interested in their genetics.

From Romania no, but their results will vary from country to country. The user evon from this forum has a collection of Norwegian Roma results.

chenmatthew0428
02-10-2017, 06:14 AM
Do you have some Asian results from 23andme? I am Chinese. I want to know some Chinese results.

eastara
02-13-2017, 10:54 AM
I have several results for Bulgarian and Romanian Gypsy/Roma, usually adopted in other Western countries.
They have usually some South Asian. combined with Middle east, however percentage vary according to how admixed is the particular group. Western European Roma often have very little or no South Asian.

Here are some examples:

37.4% Middle Eastern & North African
37.2% Middle Eastern
- 0.3%Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
29.2% South Asian
26.6% European
Southern European
- 13.8% Balkan
- 5.4% Broadly Southern European
Northwestern European
- 0.8% Broadly Northwestern European
0.1% Eastern European
6.5% Broadly European
0.2% East Asian & Native American
East Asian
- 0.1% Broadly East Asian
-< 0.1% Southeast Asian
- < 0.1%Broadly East Asian & Native American
- 0.1% Oceanian
6.5% Unassigned
100%


59.6% European
43.0% Southern European
2.6% Eastern European
1.5% Northwestern European
12.6% Broadly European
23.9% Middle Eastern & North African
22.4% Middle Eastern
1.5% Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
9.5% South Asian
0.2% East Asian & Native American
0.2%East Asian
< 0.1%Broadly East Asian & Native American
6.7% Unassigned
100%

chenmatthew0428
02-22-2017, 12:57 PM
I have several results for Bulgarian and Romanian Gypsy/Roma, usually adopted in other Western countries.
They have usually some South Asian. combined with Middle east, however percentage vary according to how admixed is the particular group. Western European Roma often have very little or no South Asian.

Here are some examples:

37.4% Middle Eastern & North African
37.2% Middle Eastern
- 0.3%Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
29.2% South Asian
26.6% European
Southern European
- 13.8% Balkan
- 5.4% Broadly Southern European
Northwestern European
- 0.8% Broadly Northwestern European
0.1% Eastern European
6.5% Broadly European
0.2% East Asian & Native American
East Asian
- 0.1% Broadly East Asian
-< 0.1% Southeast Asian
- < 0.1%Broadly East Asian & Native American
- 0.1% Oceanian
6.5% Unassigned
100%


59.6% European
43.0% Southern European
2.6% Eastern European
1.5% Northwestern European
12.6% Broadly European
23.9% Middle Eastern & North African
22.4% Middle Eastern
1.5% Broadly Middle Eastern & North African
9.5% South Asian
0.2% East Asian & Native American
0.2%East Asian
< 0.1%Broadly East Asian & Native American
6.7% Unassigned
100%

Thanks for the post! Can you post some roma results of various countries? Thanks

BalkanKiwi
02-23-2017, 04:24 AM
:thumb:
Thanks for the post! Can you post some roma results of various countries? Thanks

If you are after results of countries outside the Balkans, I suggest starting a thread in the autosomal area. As this is a Balkans related thread, we want to prevent the discussion going off topic too much. If you post in the autosomal area you may get more responses. :beerchug:

chenmatthew0428
02-23-2017, 05:08 AM
:thumb:

If you are after results of countries outside the Balkans, I suggest starting a thread in the autosomal area. As this is a Balkans related thread, we want to prevent the discussion going off topic too much. If you post in the autosomal area you may get more responses. :beerchug:

Thanks for the reply

Dorkymon
03-04-2017, 11:26 PM
I haven't updated in a while. Enjoy

50. Southern Romania Y-DNA: I2a1b, mtDNA: X2

https://i.imgur.com/3VBwZfa.png

https://i.imgur.com/vHMc0qk.png

51. Western Romania Y-DNA: R1b1b2a1a, mtDNA: H

https://i.imgur.com/CeIzJM2.png

https://i.imgur.com/Gjs5YK4.png

52. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: J2b2, mtDNA: T2b2

https://i.imgur.com/fS4XpSt.png

https://i.imgur.com/JmQBdWX.png

53. Southern Romania Y-DNA: E1b1b1a2, mtDNA: U7

https://i.imgur.com/nWS2pB4.png

https://i.imgur.com/GefR1Gc.png

54. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H2b

https://i.imgur.com/UbFRG5y.png

https://i.imgur.com/Mv0ovka.png

55. Southern Romania (Jewish) Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: V7a

https://i.imgur.com/QBKQv7c.png

56. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: U4b

https://i.imgur.com/EqMtw9T.png

https://i.imgur.com/4DH4M9b.png

57. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H

https://i.imgur.com/MKqbBmm.png

https://i.imgur.com/M8fZwyP.png

Dorkymon
03-04-2017, 11:51 PM
58. Southern Romania (Romanian + Sephardi Jewish + Gypsy/Roma?) Y-DNA: G2a4, mtDNA: H4a1

https://i.imgur.com/gpFcJya.png

https://i.imgur.com/WxjMSvb.png

59. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: C4b1

https://i.imgur.com/f719VhQ.png

https://i.imgur.com/jIyCDWN.png

60. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: K1a4a1

https://i.imgur.com/HuDuetR.png

https://i.imgur.com/cxHSmNo.png

61. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: W4

https://i.imgur.com/SMKhRyU.png

https://i.imgur.com/CH9JLfo.png

62. Western Romania Y-DNA: I2a1b, mtDNA: H5a1

https://i.imgur.com/iFxtPtN.png

https://i.imgur.com/H9pp1nS.png

63. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R1b1b2, mtDNA: H9a

https://i.imgur.com/OgvDWgh.png

https://i.imgur.com/oSRAOSH.png

64. Southern Romania Y-DNA: I2a1b, mtDNA: U5b1b1

https://i.imgur.com/qrjugXr.png

https://i.imgur.com/b6jgi9a.png

65. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R1a1a, mtDNA: T2f

https://i.imgur.com/rQ2yOL0.png

https://i.imgur.com/bvYMRqs.png

Erlembaldo
03-05-2017, 04:28 PM
Really fascinating, thanks for sharing!

AJL
10-08-2017, 11:09 PM
I haven't seen Romanian Family Finder results for comparison yet, but my sister-in-law's just came in. One parent from north, one from south.

East Europe: 59%
Southeast Europe: 35%
Middle Eastern—West Middle East: 6%
Northeast Asia: < 1%

Dibran
10-09-2017, 05:31 PM
One of those samples has really high Balkan(81%). In Albanian ranges. At least southern Albanian range.

Dorkymon
10-10-2017, 04:29 PM
I haven't seen Romanian Family Finder results for comparison yet, but my sister-in-law's just came in. One parent from north, one from south.

East Europe: 59%
Southeast Europe: 35%
Middle Eastern—West Middle East: 6%
Northeast Asia: < 1%

I haven't looked up other results, but I've got mine if you want to compare.

https://i.imgur.com/SUUwhAZ.png

AJL
10-13-2017, 03:14 PM
Thanks very much. Pretty similar. It turns out she had one Polish great-grandparent, so her matches and stats are very slightly more Slavic-skewed than average for Romanians.

J Man
01-06-2018, 04:18 PM
http://romaniatourism.com/romania-maps/romania-regions-map.jpg

I don't have any info on Aromanians from outside of Romania, but in Romania the descendants of Aromanians live primarily in Dobrogea. It is estimated that around 70% of the Romanian population in Dobrogea have at least some partial Aromanian ancestry. When looking at Y-DNA it can be clearly noticed that J2 has a significantly higher rate in Dobrogea than in the rest of the country, which points at Aromanians as the source for this.

These are the results of people from that region, so you can assume that they have some Aromanian ancestry:

http://i.imgur.com/QEvKfBk.png

http://i.imgur.com/VtxtW9g.png

http://i.imgur.com/twidF4S.png

http://i.imgur.com/Tk9jyrF.png

http://i.imgur.com/CVy1xHQ.png

Do you know if the J2 present in Dobrogea is mostly J2a or J2b?

Fungene
01-19-2018, 07:26 PM
One more post; the results are based on 23andme v5.
Using the classificatory scheme in this thread, Romanian ancestry would be half South and half West
Everyone else seems to be posting 50% confidence level results. Here are mine.

20920

All known ancestry is Romanian (Bucharest, Arges, Prahova; Cluj, Salaj, Maramures); with the following exceptions:
Maternal side: 1 Austrian great-grandmother; 1 Greek 3rd great-grandfather.
Paternal side: 1 Slovak 2nd great-grandmother; 1 Lithuanian 3rd great-grandfather.

eastara
02-08-2018, 08:57 AM
Maybe not for this thread, but I have noticed the latest 23andMe Ancestry composition results (probably version 5) differ from the previous.
For example Bulgarians used to have between 60-70 Balkan, sizeable East European and several percent West European. Now they have between 80-90% Balkan, no West European and only a few percent East European. I recollect somebody mentioning their results have changed, but not for me and most of my sharing connection. This way all our collected data is not worth much unless they recalculate everybody.

Fungene
02-08-2018, 12:59 PM
Maybe not for this thread, but I have noticed the latest 23andMe Ancestry composition results (probably version 5) differ from the previous.
For example Bulgarians used to have between 60-70 Balkan, sizeable East European and several percent West European. Now they have between 80-90% Balkan, no West European and only a few percent East European.

Do you mean the same Bulgarian individuals get a different result with v5 than with previous versions?

eastara
02-08-2018, 11:15 PM
Do you mean the same Bulgarian individuals get a different result with v5 than with previous versions?

No, the newly tested Bulgarians differ from the previous. Don't know if some of the older tests are recalculated. The Balkan percentage has increased for all Balkan people. I have recent Albanian relative with 96.0%, a Greek with 93.7% and a Serb with 96.4% Balkan.
It seems the Balkan has increased at the expense of Broadly South European, EastEuropean and NorthWestern European, the last has disappeared completely. Only the East Asian and Middle East are roughly the same usually <1%.
If you have tested with 23andMe check your new relatives and compare with the previous with the same ethnicity.

Fungene
02-08-2018, 11:51 PM
No, the newly tested Bulgarians differ from the previous. Don't know if some of the older tests are recalculated. The Balkan percentage has increased for all Balkan people. ...
It seems the Balkan has increased at the expense of Broadly South European, EastEuropean and NorthWestern European, the last has disappeared completely. ...
If you have tested with 23andMe check your new relatives and compare with the previous with the same ethnicity.

I see. Since I have only recently tested with 23andMe, I have no "new" relatives. I can only say that among the relatives 23andMe ascribes to me, there is no apparent pattern. But what you point out is interesting.

Perhaps others can chime in.

Dorkymon
02-11-2018, 12:16 AM
No, the newly tested Bulgarians differ from the previous. Don't know if some of the older tests are recalculated. The Balkan percentage has increased for all Balkan people. I have recent Albanian relative with 96.0%, a Greek with 93.7% and a Serb with 96.4% Balkan.
It seems the Balkan has increased at the expense of Broadly South European, EastEuropean and NorthWestern European, the last has disappeared completely. Only the East Asian and Middle East are roughly the same usually <1%.
If you have tested with 23andMe check your new relatives and compare with the previous with the same ethnicity.

I don't know about v5, but I'm on v4 and my recalculated results don't differ significantly.

Old

https://i.imgur.com/Kk33Ukr.png

New

https://i.imgur.com/cfaabfN.png

eastara
02-11-2018, 12:00 PM
Well, here is one of my latest Romanian relatives (judging by his name and I could also find him on social media).
The second is his Ancestry Composition compared with mine, 98.3% is the record Balkan I have seen so far:

European 98.9% 100.0%
Southern European 80.9% 100.0%
Balkan 65.1% 98.3%
Italian 2.6% 1.6%
Broadly Southern European 13.3% < 0.1%
Eastern European 8.6% 0.0%
Northwestern European 2.5% 0.0%
Broadly Northwestern European 2.5% 0.0%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1% 0.0%
Broadly European 6.7% 0.0%
Middle Eastern & North African 0.7% 0.0%
East Asian & Native American 0.2% 0.0%
Unassigned 0.2% 0.0%

Fungene
02-13-2018, 10:12 PM
Well, here is one of my latest Romanian relatives (judging by his name and I could also find him on social media).
The second is his Ancestry Composition compared with mine, 98.3% is the record Balkan I have seen so far:
...

Hmm...
This is from the 23andMe website
They state that machine learning and the addition of new customers account for improvements in their Ancestry Composition feature:

https://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/23andme-revs-ancestry-composition-feature/


"Composition feature
November 16, 2017 By 23andMe under Ancestry
A remarkable aspect of 23andMe’s Ancestry Composition feature is that the innovative machine learning technology under the hood gets better and more precise as we add new customers and refine our technology.

We’ve been revving that machine up lately, so this week some customers who have tested on our latest genotyping chip will start to see more precise detail in their Ancestry Composition results.

What’s happening here reflects both changes to our genotyping chip and our ever-increasing numbers of new customers. These new customers enabled us to “retrain” the machine learning algorithm and improve the accuracy and specificity of ancestry assignments we report. So now, for example, a customer with a percentage of their Ancestry Composition previously designated as “Broadly European,” may now see some of this ancestry assigned as “French or German.”"

Your eyes have not been deceiving you. There have been changes. I tested very recently with 23andMe, so wouldn't have noticed. The changes will probably continue to occur, given the process 23andMe uses to assign ancestry composition.
Thanks for pointing this out.

Fungene
02-13-2018, 10:23 PM
I don't know about v5, but I'm on v4 and my recalculated results don't differ significantly.

Old
...

New
...

A tad less broadly European, a bit more Balkan, by over 1%. A move in the right direction, yes?

eastara
02-14-2018, 08:42 AM
Well, adjusting the bits and reducing the Broadly something is correct.
However, when a Serbian, Bulgarian and Romanian all show 97% Balkans and little else this does not seem right. Previously I could tell who is the Serb and who is the Bulgarian without seeing the names, now I can't.

Dorkymon
02-18-2018, 01:20 PM
A tad less broadly European, a bit more Balkan, by over 1%. A move in the right direction, yes?

Probably yes, btw, the visualisation for the ancestry report just changed today for me. Guys, check yours too.

Dorkymon
02-18-2018, 01:24 PM
https://i.imgur.com/0cFTENA.png

Fungene
02-18-2018, 01:28 PM
[QUOTE=btw, my ancestry report just changed today. Guys, check yours too.[/QUOTE]

My report is still the same.

Fungene
02-18-2018, 01:39 PM
"We predict you had ancestors that lived in Romania within the last 200 years": can't go wrong with that!

"Ukraine" now appears under "Eastern European." Do you think that this means that Ukraine is the main country of origin for the Eastern European component, or that it is the only country of origin for this component?

Dorkymon
02-18-2018, 01:44 PM
"We predict you had ancestors that lived in Romania within the last 200 years": can't go wrong with that!

"Ukraine" now appears under "Eastern European." Do you think that this means that Ukraine is the main country of origin for the Eastern European component, or that it is the only country of origin for this component?

One sec and I'll upload. I'm actually enlisted in the Beta and have access to the full report for some reason. It isn't much, but at least it is something :D

Dorkymon
02-18-2018, 01:46 PM
https://i.imgur.com/JJS397L.png

Fungene
02-18-2018, 02:25 PM
Dorkymon: "One sec and I'll upload. I'm actually enlisted in the Beta and have access to the full report for some reason. It isn't much, but at least it is something"

Awesome!
You got the 154-populations-and-dots beta!
What, nothing from Belize?
Seriously,
this looks like an improvement. The Eastern European is from Ukraine and Poland. Does this seem reasonable to you? Meaning, does it fit with family oral tradition and your paper trail?
It is interesting that you get as much Moldova as you get Belize. Does this make sense to you?

Dorkymon
02-18-2018, 02:42 PM
The Eastern European is from Ukraine and Poland. Does this seem reasonable to you? Meaning, does it fit with family oral tradition and your paper trail?


I've only got one grandma who was born into a Romanian family from Cernauti. So, I think that the East Euro component is inflated. In my opinion, the East Euro could decrease a lot, if the Balkan component was split in two: Albanians and Greeks on one side and South Slavs + Romanians on the other.



It is interesting that you get as much Moldova as you get Belize. Does this make sense to you?


No, it doesn't. I'd expect to match closer to Moldova than Romania actually. In their defence, it looks like they haven't added the references from Moldova yet.

https://i.imgur.com/7DHQE9V.png

Fungene
02-18-2018, 03:00 PM
I've only got one grandma who was born into a Romanian family from Cernauti. So, I think that the East Euro component is inflated. In my opinion, the East Euro could decrease a lot, if the Balkan component was split in two: Albanians and Greeks on one side and South Slavs + Romanians on the other.


LivingDNA separates the 23andme Balkan category in three: Albanians and Greeks are in Aegean, Bulgarians and Romanians in East Balkans, and Serbians, etc. in West Balkans. If you tested with LivingDNA, did that help?

To see if the Eastern European category is inflated in your case, you might have to delve further back into family history.
With a 2nd great-grandmother from Slovakia and a third great-grandfather from Lithuania, I get 9.1 Eastern European at the 50% confidence level. Even distant ancestry can make a difference.
This might be a good reason to go holidaying in Ukraine and Poland and follow the genetic trails?

Dorkymon
02-18-2018, 04:14 PM
LivingDNA separates the 23andme Balkan category in three: Albanians and Greeks are in Aegean, Bulgarians and Romanians in East Balkans, and Serbians, etc. in West Balkans. If you tested with LivingDNA, did that help?

To see if the Eastern European category is inflated in your case, you might have to delve further back into family history.
With a 2nd great-grandmother from Slovakia and a third great-grandfather from Lithuania, I get 9.1 Eastern European at the 50% confidence level. Even distant ancestry can make a difference.
This might be a good reason to go holidaying in Ukraine and Poland and follow the genetic trails?

Yes, it is worth looking this up at some point.

Living DNA was all over the place for me.

https://i.imgur.com/swUKBKo.png

Fungene
02-18-2018, 05:32 PM
Living DNA was all over the place for me.


It looks like LivingDNA interpreted Romanian ancestry as Southern European, perhaps to compensate for the inflated non-Balkan East Europe components. If any company inflates your Eastern European ancestry, it is Living DNA.

Mind you, the complete mode in LivingDNA might help you figure out some aspects of minor ancestry, so it is not useless. Some of the Turkish and Asian might be rolled in the Ukrainian ancestry that 23andme identified.

Looking at your 23andme and LivingDNA results, I still believe that overall, 23andme is better. Also, 23andme might give you a reasonable East European % at higher levels of confidence.
I use LivingDNA as a secondary source of information. It might be useful to you in that way too. We'll see if LivingDNA steps up to the challenge and keeps up with 23andme.

Alexandra97
02-27-2018, 06:09 PM
This thread has been so interesting... I've always wanted to know more about myself and I will be taking a DNA test soon, but I was a bit worried it would just be very simple and boring, these results gave me some hope though... The only negative thing is that I will be taking the MyHeritage test since it's the only one that ships to Spain from what I've seen and the cheapest... And I haven't managed to find any Romanian results from that one and I'm pretty sure the results will be different to the 23andme ones. My family is kind of a mess becuause nobody really knows 100% sure where everyone is really from, they just throw in random facts and tell me that we're really mixed... And the only things I know for certain is that, even though my parents and myself were born in Romania, on my dad's side, my grandmother's mom was slovakian, I don't know about her father, and my grandfather's mom was romanian (I suppose lol not 100% sure) and his father was hungarian. On my mom's side though things are even more confusing because she always tries to avoid the subject and shrug it off when I ask fgtsdhfj So I only really know that there's some hungarian going on on that side too and that my grandmother was actually 100% bulgarian. So I don't know if my results will be similar to those... Sometimes I feel like I'm more bulgarian and hungarian than romanian but my family is very proud of the romanian and nationality and I find everything very weird, well anyway, if anyone finds some MyHeritage Romanian results please share, I would really appreciate it!! I can't wait to do the test... As soon as I get the results I will share them on here haha.

Also, what's interesting is that we supposedly get 50% from the father, 50% from the mother, and because people always made fun of me looking kinda "asian" ever since I was a baby (so much so that my dad thought mom cheated on him when I was born...) and later when I was around 10 I remember asking about it and my dad told me about the Mongol empire and I thought he was joking because he knew I love Asia lol but since I love history I searched about it on my own and turned out to be true, BUT as I was saying lmao that was a hell of a lot of time ago, and if we get only 50% random from each parents, and they get a random 50% from each parent too... How did the Asian not disappear completely for most romanians??? I mean, wouldn't the chance of STILL having it show up in your DNA be very small?

Fungene
02-27-2018, 09:47 PM
This thread has been so interesting... I've always wanted to know more about myself and I will be taking a DNA test soon, but I was a bit worried it would just be very simple and boring, these results gave me some hope though...
Welcome, and nice to hear from you!
Half the fun is anticipating the results. The other half is interpreting them once you get them. More entertaining than reading tea leaves. It's also a great way to generate conversation with relatives.
I've never tried MyHeritage, so I don't know whether they can distinguish between the various ethnicities that interest you. It'll be interesting to find out. In any case, please do let us know about your results once you get them.

Fungene
02-28-2018, 10:02 PM
23andme has posted an announcement on their blog concerning their expansion of Ancestry Composition. This is helpful for the rest of us, who have not yet seen the update:

"This new update — which customers will begin seeing in the coming months — will compare you to more than 150 populations and regions across the globe to create a visualization of the geographic origins of your DNA."
...
"Traditionally, our Ancestry Composition report compared customers’ data to 31 different populations, allowing 23andMe to report the percentage of DNA that came from those regions. This helped connect individuals to their ancestry back 500 years before the advent of modern migration.
With this new update, we still make those estimates but add another layer of insights with clues to the location of much more recent ancestors. We can do this by looking for exact DNA matches between a customer and over 130,000 individuals of known ancestry from 120 regions across the globe. If a person exactly matches with five or more individuals from one of those specific regions, that region is assigned as a “recent ancestor location.” We also report the “strength” of the match, which is determined by how much DNA a customer shares with people from that region, adjusted by how many people are in the reference population."

For many of us, the real interest is finding out about or verifying more ancient ancestry. Paper trails do a better job for recent ancestry. It looks like the dot thing is really about recent ancestor location.

Fungene
04-04-2018, 12:37 AM
Because I have found some of the commentary on the 23andme dots perplexing, it helped me to review 23andme’s definitions of ancestry composition and recent ancestor locations, appended to my commentary, at the end.

Ancestry composition, which 23andme also calls ancestry breakdown, is unchanged; meaning, it is still defined and calculated in the same way, although one’s personal results might have changed (mine haven’t).

I really think that confirming ancestry is more interesting than finding out where people who share DNA with me live today. The dot thing gives you information about the latter. For Eastern Europe and the Balkans, the borders have been in flux for the past 200 years, and people have been moving around.

My go-to tool is 23andme’s DNA Relatives feature. I wouldn’t look at the dots without also looking at results in DNA Relatives, because DNA Relatives helps one make inferences about ancestry, and that's what I am interested in.

That being said, let’s do the dot thing (all Romanian ancestry, with exceptions noted below):

Five dots for Romania: that’s got to be the case.

Now for what the recent ancestor locations feature tells me about Eastern European relatives for the past 200 years:
No dots for Lithuania and Slovakia. One dot for Poland. I don’t know of any Polish ancestry. My Slovak second great-grand-mother was born 175 years ago, which is still within the time span the recent ancestor location feature covers. The Lithuanian third-great-grandfather was born before the time frame of the 200-year window for recent ancestor locations. My interpretation: The dot for Poland tells me, probably, that my Lithuanian and Slovak ancestors no longer have descendants within the borders of present-day Lithuania and Slovakia. They can be found, however, in Poland.
Two dots for Hungary. There are lots of people of Balkan ancestry living within the borders of Hungary, so no surprise there. What does 23andme ‘s DNA relatives tell me? All people related to me identified as Hungarian with all four grandparents from Hungary have significant to large Balkan ancestry. Same thing, it goes without saying, if they have less than four grandparents born in Hungary. Again, no surprises. It is also possible that Slovak descendants live in Hungary.

For the Balkans excluding Romania:
I have one dot for Greece. My Greek third great-grandfather was born before the time frame of the 200-year span for recent ancestor locations. I can interpret the one dot in Greece as telling me that there are still descendants of common ancestors living in Greece. They probably also have descendants living in Bulgaria, as the Greek ancestors spent some time in Bulgaria before heading north to Romania. I have two dots for Bulgaria. The information that the mother of the Greek third-great-grandfather was Macedonian is lost. I have no dot for Macedonia. However, some descendants of common Macedonian ancestors might be the individuals that the recent ancestry location feature identifies as living in Albania, for which I have one dot.
I have no idea about Serbia, for which I get three dots. Yet, I can trace my ancestry in Southern Romania quite a ways back. I do know that there are 30,000 people of Romanian ancestry living in Serbia, and that could be the link with recent locations.

Finally, for Western European locations: Zip.
No doubt about it, I have a Viennese great-grandmother whose own grandparents were from Salzburg. That’s about as “Sound of Music” as it gets. But no dot for you, Austria. Big Fail. Either that or all descendants of Austrian ancestors have moved away.
Still, the DNA Relatives feature gives me plenty of relatives with Western European ancestry. It’s the largest category, by far, simply because many if not most of them are American, and it is still Americans who are overwhelmingly most likely to get tested. I have plenty of relatives with gobs of Western European ancestry. The Austrian ancestry is my only Western European connection. No dots for Austria, but that crowd of Western European relatives hasn’t disappeared.

For the moment, it looks like LivingDNA is racing neck-and-neck with 23andme, at least for me. LivingDNA really goes overboard with the British and Tuscan thing, but picked up fine distinctions in the Balkans and Eastern European ancestries. That is for ancestry, not for countries where people who share DNA with me live today, which it does not report on. I really think that ancestry is more interesting than finding out where people who share ancestry with me live today. We’ll see if LivingDNA’s upcoming Family Networks outdoes 23andme’s DNA Relatives. That’s going to be the really interesting thing to compare.

Recent Ancestor Location, as explained by 23andme:
“To determine your recent ancestor locations, we look for identical pieces of DNA that you have in common with individuals of known ancestry from over 120 countries and territories in Europe, Africa, the Americas, Asia, and Oceania. If you share five or more identical DNA segments with individuals from a specific location, that location is assigned to you. The strength of that assignment (the "match strength") is determined by how much of your DNA you share with people from that location, adjusting for the number of people that we compared you with. When interpreting your results, keep in mind the following:
Country borders have changed a lot even within the past 100 years, which can sometimes produce counter-intuitive results.
If you don't see an expected ancestry location, that doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have ancestors who lived there. It could simply mean that you do not have enough shared DNA with our reference dataset for us to confidently assign that location to you.
We determine these results in real time, meaning that new locations can arise as our database grows and you should expect to see changes to your results over time."

This is different from ancestry composition, as explained by 23andme:
“Your Ancestry Composition report shows the percentage of your DNA that comes from 31 populations. We calculate your Ancestry Composition by comparing your genome to those of over 10,000 people with known ancestry. When a segment of your DNA closely matches the DNA from one of the 31 populations, we assign that ancestry to the corresponding segment of your DNA. We calculate the ancestry for individual segments of your genome separately, then add them together to compute your overall ancestry composition.”

23andme sometimes calls this “ancestral breakdown”:
“To determine your ancestral breakdown, we use an algorithm that individually looks at short pieces of DNA across your genome. We compare each piece to DNA sequences from 31 ancestral reference populations from around the world, which include over 10,000 individuals with known ancestry. When a piece of your DNA resembles the DNA from a specific reference population with a high degree of certainty, it is assigned to that population. Sometimes a piece of DNA resembles reference DNA from several populations, in which case it is assigned to a "broad" ancestry (e.g. Northwestern European). The results of these assignments are tallied across your genome to determine your results.”

Fungene
04-04-2018, 07:28 PM
I thought there were no changes to original results with the update received yesterday.
There are, but they are a matter of nuance. I noticed small differences in trace amounts.
There is a tiny bit more Ashkenazi and a tiny bit less Asian at the 50% confidence level in comparison with previous results.
The Ashkenazi holds up even at the 80% confidence level, which it did not before. The Asian now disappears at the 60% confidence level. Here are results at the 60% confidence level.

60% confidence level, Before Update:
22508

60% confidence level, After Update:
22509

Other people might also want to check their results at different confidence levels.

JonikW
04-09-2018, 10:30 PM
Romanian expertise needed please: I posted similarly on the Caucasus and Slavic forums but could use some advice here. My wife is from Georgia; known ancestry 25% Georgia (Kakhetia), 75% Russia (Urals + Kursk region). Her 23and me results are just in but not yet phased with our son. She hasn't tested anywhere else. Does the level of Balkans and Italy below look expected for a Russian/Georgian? I notice she has some cousin matches on the first couple of pages with Romanian surnames. Her Russian cousin matches show pretty much 100% Eastern Europe Russia when I look at their individual breakdowns. So does this mean her results are considerably out from the expected 75% Russian? Does she have Romanian or Moldovan ancestry?
Her Gedmatch Genesis kit is NS4188352 (I only have access to a smartphone and the formatting messed up when I tried to post oracles here.)
From observation, her Kursk grandmother looked dark for a Russian (eye and skin colour) and apparently the grandfather did too.

- European 87.3%
- Eastern European 38.6% Russia
- Balkan 27.9%
- Italian 7.8%
- Finnish 0.9%
- Sardinian 0.4%
- Broadly Southern European 5.9%
- Broadly Northwestern European 1.3%
- Broadly European 4.6%

- Western Asian & North African12.0%
- Western Asian10.8%
- Broadly Western Asian & North African1.2%

- Sub-Saharan African0.1%
- East African0.1%

- Unassigned0.5%

Oldernu
04-10-2018, 09:58 AM
Thanks much for your explanation. With at least one bastard in my tree and record destruction and dislocation from war, it's doubtful that I'll be able to find much in tracing ancestry. Good luck in your searches.

Fungene
04-11-2018, 10:18 PM
Romanian expertise needed...

I'll dig out the late maternal grandmother's family notes and tree and see if they shed any light

Do let us know what you find out. That Southern European "package," including especially the Balkan, looks quite typically Romanian, most likely, from Moldova.

Fungene
05-03-2018, 04:05 PM
Dorkymon: ..

[Fungene] The Eastern European is from Ukraine and Poland. Does this seem reasonable to you? Meaning, does it fit with family oral tradition and your paper trail?


Since I wrote this, I realized that the dots do not directly represent ancestry. Rather they represent DNA shared with people who live in countries for which dots are assigned.

From 23andme: "To determine your recent ancestor locations, we look for identical pieces of DNA that you have in common with individuals of known ancestry from over 120 countries… If you share five or more identical DNA segments with individuals from a specific location, that location is assigned to you. The strength of that assignment (the "match strength") is determined by how much of your DNA you share with people from that location, adjusting for the number of people that we compared you with."

So it would be quite expected for someone with a grandmother from Cernauti, which is now in Ukraine, to have a dot for Ukraine. That does not imply Ukrainian ancestry, although it is not incompatible with Ukrainian ancestry.

Fungene
05-10-2018, 01:29 AM
...explanation...searches.
Do you have 23andMe results you can share?

Fungene
06-08-2018, 02:26 PM
Just a reminder, people can post to this thread in Romanian if they would like to.

Aspar
06-08-2018, 02:31 PM
I didn't test with 23andme but I assume, that is a decent amount of East Asian in there...
No wonder, since Romania was a crossing point for many people that came from the East.

Fungene
06-08-2018, 03:13 PM
I didn't test with 23andme but I assume, that is a decent amount of East Asian in there...
No wonder, since Romania was a crossing point for many people that came from the East.

Hello thanks for your comment, in where? I am assuming in Romanian 23andme results. Please keep in mind that the results reported are at the 50% confidence level.
All that I can say is that, given what I see in DNA relatives in 23andme, it's a mixed bag. Some Romanians have traces of East Asian at the 50% confidence level, some don't. The vast majority of my DNA relatives are Western Europeans. Again, the results are mixed, some have traces of East Asian admixture at the 50% confidence level, some don't.

There is also older information, but still useful, for instance, the spreadsheet for the K13 Eurogenes calculator in Gedmatch, which many people in Anthrogenica are using.
From the K13 Eurogenes spreadsheet, here are some population averages for the following components: East Asian, Siberian, and Amerindian (grouped):
Tatar: 20.68%
Ukrainian: 3.10%
Moldovan: 2.61%
Orcadian: 2.09%
Belarusian: 1.68%
Romanian: 1.67%
Lithuanian: 1.65%
Bulgarian: 1.52%
South Polish: 1.49%
Croatian: 1.43%
West German: 1.13%
Irish: 1.11%
Danish: .83%
French Basque: .79%

I don't know what the margin of error is (that information is not in the spreadsheet.)
For a broader outlook on Eurasian admixture in Europeans, see recently published articles or articles still in preprint, with which I am sure you are already familiar.

Dorkymon
06-08-2018, 04:43 PM
It's time for another update. Please bear in mind that due to 23andme's current design, my results will figure on each screenshot. They are in the 1st column.

66. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: HV0
https://s33.postimg.cc/b9kfdwqb3/Selection_001.png

67. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H
https://s33.postimg.cc/5le4n11e7/Selection_002.png

68. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R-M417, mtDNA: U5b1e
https://s33.postimg.cc/7pyho3vb3/Selection_003.png

69. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R-U152, mtDNA: H
https://s33.postimg.cc/ipjozqw0v/Selection_004.png

70. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: X2e
https://s33.postimg.cc/3tl5s4xgv/Selection_005.png

71. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: I-L460, mtDNA: T
https://s33.postimg.cc/dqw6l7csf/Selection_006.png

72. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: X2e
https://s33.postimg.cc/yb10jod3z/Selection_007.png

73. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: J1c2c
https://s33.postimg.cc/psrkfctqn/Selection_008.png

74. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: X2b4
https://s33.postimg.cc/9502cvm4f/Selection_010.png

Fungene
06-08-2018, 10:42 PM
I didn't test with 23andme but I assume, that is a decent amount of East Asian in there...
No wonder, since Romania was a crossing point for many people that came from the East.

To be sure. Now, just to give a sense of proportion that could also help put 23andme results in perspective, here are very recent illustrations that give a visual impression of the relation between various Eurasian populations. Romanians are coded in red as Rom (red is for southeastern European). Rom is in the red blobs in the two figures below.

All information is from Zheong et al. 2018. "Characterizing the genetic history of admixture across inner Eurasia"
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...27122.full.pdf (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/05/23/327122.full.pdf)

Fig. S1. “PC1 separates western and eastern Eurasian populations…. PC2 separates eastern Eurasians along the north-south cline and also separates Europeans from West Asians.”

https://i.imgur.com/h8CXZ9C.png
https://i.imgur.com/JFuClRE.png

Fig. S2. PC3 is intended to separate out the West Asians (top) from the Europeans (bottom). Romanians cluster with Europeans, more specifically southeastern Europeans.

https://i.imgur.com/qxlkEYs.png

Dorkymon
06-12-2018, 08:15 PM
I thought there were no changes to original results with the update received yesterday.
There are, but they are a matter of nuance. I noticed small differences in trace amounts.
There is a tiny bit more Ashkenazi and a tiny bit less Asian at the 50% confidence level in comparison with previous results.
The Ashkenazi holds up even at the 80% confidence level, which it did not before. The Asian now disappears at the 60% confidence level. Here are results at the 60% confidence level.

60% confidence level, Before Update:
22508

60% confidence level, After Update:
22509

Other people might also want to check their results at different confidence levels.

Just a random question, since I noticed this comment while skimming through the thread.
Aren't you supposed to be like 1/4 Austrian, if I'm not mistaken? I wonder which component absorbs your Northwestern Euro.

Dorkymon
06-12-2018, 09:52 PM
What does 23andme ‘s DNA relatives tell me? All people related to me identified as Hungarian with all four grandparents from Hungary have significant to large Balkan ancestry. Same thing, it goes without saying, if they have less than four grandparents born in Hungary. Again, no surprises. It is also possible that Slovak descendants live in Hungary.

I looked quicky into my Northwestern Euro bit today, which is small at 7.3%, but still looks exaggerated when compared to Romanians, Bulgarians and Ukrainians.
It bugs me slightly, since I always get something akin to that in humble proportions (similar situation to my East Asian's, obviously harder to spot on calcs), but which again is in higher amounts than expected for my ancestry
(FTDNA: 4% British Isles,
MyHeritage: 5.8% English,
LivingDNA Standard (probably biased): France 9.4%,
LivingDNA Complete (probably biased): France 9.4%, 8.7% GB and Ireland
DNA Tribes: Northwest Euro 11.9%,
WeGene: British 2.21%, (60% Hungarian (no East Euro references, probably absorbs both from Balkan and NW Euro if any), 32% Balkan)).

So, in an attempt to chase it, I picked up your idea of filtering to only those relatives that have 4 grandparents from their country in 23andme.
Among the DNA relatives with potentially high levels of NW Euro (without the new world), I noticed the following:



Country
Total number of relatives
Relatives with 4 grandparents


Germany
32
0


Austria
19
1


UK
19
2


France
8
2


Ireland
7
4



From the above, Ireland seemed the most suspect, since it has the highest ratio of relatives with 4 grandparents (57%) as part of the total number of relatives.
Now, will I also find them harbouring significant amounts of Balkan and/or East Euro ancestry, thus justifying the connection between us? Maybe it's from the Ashkenazi?
A problem that I stumbled into is that for the admixture that is classified as broad (South/NW Euro), 23andme doesn't provide chromosome painting in ancestry composition. They are all painted as Broadly Euro. That's a problem. My broad proportions are 14.7% European, 11.4% Southern, 5.3% Northwestern. So, these (31.4%) will be a bit useless on the chromosome painting, since they are all painted in the same colour, as if they were broadly European.

Irish with 4 grandparents:
Alpha: 96.4% NW Euro, 3% South Euro (1.4% Iberian) 0.6% Broadly Euro (shared segment is Broadly Euro)
Beta: 98.3% NW Euro, 1.1% South Euro, 0.6% Broadly Euro (shared segment is Broadly Euro)
Gamma: 99.7% NW Euro, 0.3% SSA (shared segment is Broadly Euro)
Delta: 100% NW Euro (shared segment is Broadly Euro)

Observations: A lot of my mutual relatives with them are from the new world and most of them are 90%+ NW Euro, with some of them also having 100% NW Euro admixture.

Moving on to France, those 2 relatives are half French and half Ashkenazi Jewish (settled in France in the 18th century). Both of them match with me on chromosome 5, in the exact location of my Ashkenazi bit.

Observations: French matches with 4 gp are not NW Euro related.

In the UK, my matches are:
1: 98.4% NW Euro, 0.2% South Euro and 1.4% Broadly Euro (shared segment is Broadly Euro)
2: 91.4% NW Euro, 3.2% South Euro (1% Italian), 0.5% Ashkenazi, 1.2% Broadly Euro, 0.1% MENA, 0.1% SSA (shared segment is Broadly Euro)

Observations: Both of them have 10+ surnames and all of them sound English to me. I'll dig into this later.

Austria - 1 - didn't opt to share

I've managed to gather more questions than answers in the end, but that's why we are researching this stuff anyway. I plan to test my parents this year too, which will hopefully break down those 31.4% from my broadly Euro component. Sooner or later, I'll find out what's going on. ;)

Fungene
06-12-2018, 09:57 PM
Just a random question, since I noticed this comment while skimming through the thread.
Aren't you supposed to be like 1/4 Austrian, if I'm not mistaken? I wonder which component absorbs your Northwestern Euro.

1/8: Austrian great-grandmother, so 12.5%, according to paper trail.
23andme admits it doesn't predict French and German very well.
At the 60% confidence level, it gives me 10.7% Broadly European + .1% Broadly Northwestern European, 8% Eastern European, everything else being Southern European, except for the trace .1% Ashkenazi.
At the 70% confidence level, I get 15.1% Broadly European, 6.5% Eastern European. Everything else is Southern European, except for the same trace amount of Ashkenazi, and 1.1% is unassigned.
I think something between the 60%-70% confidence levels yields an adequate fit with my paper trail.
Not bad.
When you come to think of it, would you make an investment if your confidence level in facts about it is only 50%? A 50% confidence level is a very low threshhold. I really think their default report should be at least at the 60% confidence level. But that would mean a high % of unassigned, and customers don't like to see that.

Here is 23andme's information on precision % and recall %, which you know about but people who haven't tested with 23andme might not be familiar with.





POPULATION
PRECISION (%)
RECALL (%)


Sub-Saharan African
99
98


West African
98
97


East African
98
93


Central & South African
99
83


East Asian & Native American
100
100


Native American
100
92


East Asian
96
96


Japanese
98
91


Korean
93
82


Yakut
95
88


Mongolian
85
54


Chinese
90
85


Southeast Asian
97
71


European
99
99


Northern European
97
88


British & Irish
90
47


Finnish
96
89


French & German
80
19


Scandinavian
94
46


Southern European
95
76


Balkan
94
65


Iberian
94
57


Italian
89
56


Sardinian
97
68


Eastern European
90
68


Ashkenazi Jewish
99
97


Middle Eastern & North African
98
91


Middle Eastern
92
79


North African
95
71


South Asian
100
98


Oceanian
100
96







Really low recall for the French&German category (one might have French&German, but their system won't call it.) That's why, in my case, I tend to think they lumped the Austrian in the Broadly European category. Note that the precision for French&German is low too. In fact, it's their lowest precision category. Their next least precise category is Mongolian (85%).

Fungene
06-12-2018, 10:31 PM
I looked quicky into my Northwestern Euro bit today, which is small at 7.3%, but still looks exaggerated when compared to Romanians, Bulgarians and Ukrainians.
...
I've managed to get more questions than answers in the end, but that's why we are researching this stuff anyway. I plan to test my parents this year too, which will hopefully break down that 31.4% of my broadly Euro component. Sooner or later, I'll find out what's going on. ;)

That's all part of the fun in doing these things.
I think maybe you have pretty much extracted what information can be squeezed out of calculators and commercial products. I know that I would have been led on a wild goose chase if I didn't have a good idea of my paper trail. Some bizarre results (Italian? Iberian?) made me check up on things, and I have a clearer picture than I did before. That's how I can tell that 23andme does OK at the 60-70% confidence levels, LivingDNA is pretty good for Eastern European, but gets wacky with British and Italian (and Iberian), and the people at FTDNA need to update MyOrigins 2.0.
Is it time to hit the paper trail?

Dorkymon
06-12-2018, 10:36 PM
Is it time to hit the paper trail?

Perhaps it is, though I've no idea where to start yet.

Fungene
06-13-2018, 02:54 PM
Perhaps it is, though I've no idea where to start yet.

You look to be pretty plugged-in and web-savvy. So if you don't know where to start, something tells me that the information you'd be looking for can't be easy to find.
Aside for all the obvious web searches you could do, there are also these sources, which I have not looked into myself, but they are serious:

This is a site about Romanian archives, for archivists:
ARHIVA GENEALOGICĂ VIRTUALĂ - kosson (http://www.kosson.ro/prezentari/31-proiecte/1153-arhiva-genealogica-virtuala)
http://www.kosson.ro/arhive-si-arhivstica

This is a professional genealogist with a PhD in history:
Dr. Veaceslav Stavila
http://tisa.nistru-prut.info/?go=find&page=romania&l=M
http://romania.nistru-prut.info/index.php
http://nistru-prut.info

He seems to specialize in northeast Romania and Moldova.
He provides a huge list of surnames for both Romanians and Moldovans. Just browsing through the list of surnames (which are linked to counties) is interesting. You might check to see if any family surnames (in the right counties) show up.

http://nistru-prut.info includes records of individuals buried in Moldovan cemeteries up to the first half of the 19th century. You never know if you might find something interesting:
"Vizitaţi Necropola Basarabiei (http://nistru-prut.info/index.php?prez=necropol&lang=) pentru a afla la ce vîrstă şi din ce cauză au decedat strămoşii Dvs. în prima jumătate a secolului al XIX-lea."

Dorkymon
06-13-2018, 04:20 PM
You look to be pretty plugged-in and web-savvy. So if you don't know where to start, something tells me that the information you'd be looking for can't be easy to find.
Aside for all the obvious web searches you could do, there are also these sources, which I have not looked into myself, but they are serious:

This is a site about Romanian archives, for archivists:
ARHIVA GENEALOGICĂ VIRTUALĂ - kosson (http://www.kosson.ro/prezentari/31-proiecte/1153-arhiva-genealogica-virtuala)
http://www.kosson.ro/arhive-si-arhivstica

This is a professional genealogist with a PhD in history:
Dr. Veaceslav Stavila
http://tisa.nistru-prut.info/?go=find&page=romania&l=M
http://romania.nistru-prut.info/index.php
http://nistru-prut.info

He seems to specialize in northeast Romania and Moldova.
He provides a huge list of surnames for both Romanians and Moldovans. Just browsing through the list of surnames (which are linked to counties) is interesting. You might check to see if any family surnames (in the right counties) show up.

http://nistru-prut.info includes records of individuals buried in Moldovan cemeteries up to the first half of the 19th century. You never know if you might find something interesting:
"Vizitaţi Necropola Basarabiei (http://nistru-prut.info/index.php?prez=necropol&lang=) pentru a afla la ce vîrstă şi din ce cauză au decedat strămoşii Dvs. în prima jumătate a secolului al XIX-lea."

Thanks, I reached out to him and am waiting for the reply.

Fungene
06-13-2018, 04:32 PM
Wow, that was quick.

Lupul
06-18-2018, 06:44 PM
These results are great! Cant wait to go home and compare my own!

Fungene
06-18-2018, 08:32 PM
These results are great! Cant wait to go home and compare my own!

It would be nice to put your 23andme results here. If you want to make comparative comments (compare your 23andme with Global 25, for instance) this would also be a good place to post them. Otherwise, there is another thread for calculator results other than 23andme. We put these threads in the international section in case someone wants to write in Romanian.

Fungene
06-18-2018, 09:07 PM
These results are great! Cant wait to go home and compare my own!
Also, if you want more discussion of your 23andme results, there are threads in the commercial calculators fora:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?517-23andMe-Ancestry-Composition-Results

Lupul
06-19-2018, 02:24 AM
Hello, here are my results. My family and I are all from Western Romania and we were born and have been living here for at least 200 years (could be much longer than that though). Both sides of my parents come from areas that are < 100 km apart. I hope this information can be of some use to someone. Feel free to include this information in any data sets. My Y-dna haplogroup is J2a1b1 (J-m92) and my mtdna is D5a2d1.

24119

Fungene
06-19-2018, 02:58 PM
Great! Thanks for posting. Hope more visitors decide to sign up.
Nice results. That high Southern European, including Balkan as the largest chunk in that category, looks very typical. I find that 23andme results are best viewed at the 60-70% confidence level. That's what best matches my known ancestry.
Tell us (or show us) what you think of your results at that level of confidence.
So, were you surprised by your 23andme Ancestry Composition? (I'd look at the dots just as a secondary distraction, for all the reasons people in various threads have brought up.)
Someone had interesting comments on your Y. That's surely worth looking into. Your mtDNA haplogroup is rare.
Cocos et al. 2017. Genetic affinities... BMC Genetics has some useful information in the supplements (it's often the supplements that are the most interesting parts of an article.) mtDNA D occurs in only 3 out of 764 Romanians sampled from all parts of the country. A D4k from Constanta, Dobruja (not unexpected, given recent Crimean Tatar population in Dobruja; I'm just astonished there isn't more); a D1f from Cluj, and a D4 from Hunedoara, both in Transylvania. That's 0.39% of the samples. You made it into that select club!
In case you're wondering, there is also one A1a from Harghita, Transylvania and one C4e from Brasov, Transylvania. So, 0.65% of mtDNA in this recent sample is Asian. Rare is always awesome. Looks like it shows up Transylvania, not Muntenia or Moldavia.

Lupul
06-20-2018, 01:44 AM
Tell us (or show us) what you think of your results at that level of confidence.

24139

As you can see, even with high confidence levels the Balkan blood is strongly there but the Eastern European still lingers as well! In regards to my results, I was pretty sure I would come up as a big chunk of Romanian and a small chunk of something else either Slavic/Nordic (Because my father's side all have very blue eyes, though I know genotype and phenotype don't always correlate but I still had a hunch :) ). It is funny though because my mother's side all have more olive/tan skin and nearly black hair so my girlfriend who is also Romanian thought that we might be gypsies but it turns out that I don't have any Indian DNA and instead the dark features comes from having high Mediterranean influences in my DNA instead (as you might have seen from my reply in the other thread, I always pull significantly higher traces of Western Mediterranean than average Romanians,Serbians, etc). In the end my girlfriend was pretty surprised to see how extremely Romanian I turned out to be (even more so than her haha).

In regards to my Y-DNA, yes I received some great info on it and I am still piecing together the map of how a J2 could have gotten to where I am (though it's not all that rare to be a J2 in Romania). I am sure that the Gen 2.0 test my father and I took, along with some other DNA results I made him take will reveal more of the path my ancestors "might" have taken to get here. And about the mtDNA that is really spectacular, I had no idea about anything of what you said and I am really appreciative for that information that you gave me! You must be very skilled at finding things like that because that is very specific, so thank you Fungene! All I read about the D haplogroup is that it originated somewhere in Asia so it must have been a long journey for my mother's ancestors to get to where we are haha. All in all, this has been a very wonderful and eye-opening journey and I'm glad to have finally gotten some clarity with fairly good confidence in my roots and where my ancestors might have come from. You know in European families when you ask your parents/grandparents where we came from every one of them want to be the birthplace of civilization and "blah blah blah" but I just wanted to find my roots and I don't care about being the center of the world. Being a Roman-Daco/Thraco remnant with some Slavic mixed in sounds pretty cool to me! I look forward to more samples coming out and especially ancient samples to reveal more about all of our roots!

Fungene
06-20-2018, 03:11 AM
As you can see, even with high confidence levels the Balkan ...
and a small chunk of something else either Slavic/Nordic
Yes, the Balkan and generally the Southern European is very characteristic of what Romanians get. What you call Slavic would fall in the Eastern European category, which 23andme distinguishes from the Northwestern European. BTW, generally, Serbs have somewhat lower Southern European than Romanians, not higher, unless they are Romanians living in Serbia. I could be wrong about this.
I know exactly where my Northwestern European admixture comes from (although 23andme flubs it); it is Austrian. Same goes for the Eastern European: it is Slovak and Lithuanian. Do you know where your Eastern European comes from, or are you just guessing? In any case, you have very little of it. BTW, I have found that when people resort to myth-making, that's just a way of admitting they don't know the answer.
If you want to show off your Global 25 models in other threads, that would be nice too.

Lupul
06-20-2018, 03:23 AM
Do you know where your Eastern European comes from, or are you just guessing?

As it stands right now I am mostly guessing. I am hoping when my father's results come in it will give me some kind of idea. On 23andme they give me "two dots" for Hungary in Eastern European and one dot for Russia, Ukraine, and Slovakia but generally I don't know how reliable those "dots" are. Also as you may know parts of Romania were at one point under Hungary and Austro-Hungary's rule so many Hungarians moved east into what is not central/western Romania so it could be that those people (and their descendants) who migrated back when all three territories of Romania were united might be contributing to that "Eastern Europe" segment. Hopefully I'll find out in the next few weeks and I'll run a bunch of Admixture calculators on my father's raw results to maybe get a better idea of where in Eastern Europe the DNA comes from because as you said now, I am mostly guessing.


What you call Slavic would fall in the Eastern European category, which 23andme distinguishes from the Northwestern European

Indeed, that's why I didn't know whether my father's side might have been Slavic or Nordic I just thought they might be either with their blue eyes and blonde hair.


If you want to show off your Global 25 models in other threads, that's be nice too.

Yea, most definitely will. I just need to find them haha, still fairly new to the website!

Fungene
06-22-2018, 12:29 AM
It's time for another update. Please bear in mind that due to 23andme's current design, my results will figure on each screenshot. They are in the 1st column.

66. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: HV0
https://s33.postimg.cc/b9kfdwqb3/Selection_001.png

67. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: H
https://s33.postimg.cc/5le4n11e7/Selection_002.png

68. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R-M417, mtDNA: U5b1e
https://s33.postimg.cc/7pyho3vb3/Selection_003.png

69. Southern Romania Y-DNA: R-U152, mtDNA: H
https://s33.postimg.cc/ipjozqw0v/Selection_004.png

70. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: X2e
https://s33.postimg.cc/3tl5s4xgv/Selection_005.png

71. Eastern Romania Y-DNA: I-L460, mtDNA: T
https://s33.postimg.cc/dqw6l7csf/Selection_006.png

72. Western Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: X2e
https://s33.postimg.cc/yb10jod3z/Selection_007.png

73. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: J1c2c
https://s33.postimg.cc/psrkfctqn/Selection_008.png

74. Southern Romania Y-DNA: N/A, mtDNA: X2b4
https://s33.postimg.cc/9502cvm4f/Selection_010.png

Dorkymon: Please let us know what steps you took to secure these individuals' consent to having their results posted to a public forum.
As far as I can tell, we can be sure that only three individuals in this thread have voluntarily posted their 23andme results, and I am one of them.

The situation in this thread is very different from the "23andMe Ancestry Composition Results" thread. In that thread people are posting their own results, or the results of close family members, from which we can assume they have received consent.

I have just recently ceased to participate in DNA relatives in 23andme. This is a direct consequence of my having realized that we have not yet received any explanation of what means were taken to collect the information posted in this thread that does not belong directly to either Dorkymon, Lupul, or me.

Lack of attention to the interests of individuals who have not chosen to participate in this Forum has the chilling effect of reducing participation, rather than encouraging it. And I mean participation not only in this Forum, but also in DNA relatives in 23andme. I have been trying very hard to encourage people to test with 23andme. I now understand their reticence.
I wish to encourage broad participation, but it has to be done responsibly. And thus, we are still owed an explanation of the process by which information posted in this thread was obtained, and the steps taken to secure the approval of the individuals at stake.

Dorkymon
06-22-2018, 02:07 PM
Dorkymon: Please let us know what steps you took to secure these individuals' consent to having their results posted to a public forum.
As far as I can tell, we can be sure that only three individuals in this thread have voluntarily posted their 23andme results, and I am one of them.

The situation in this thread is very different from the "23andMe Ancestry Composition Results" thread. In that thread people are posting their own results, or the results of close family members, from which we can assume they have received consent.

I have just recently ceased to participate in DNA relatives in 23andme. This is a direct consequence of my having realized that we have not yet received any explanation of what means were taken to collect the information posted in this thread that does not belong directly to either Dorkymon, Lupul, or me.

Lack of attention to the interests of individuals who have not chosen to participate in this Forum has the chilling effect of reducing participation, rather than encouraging it. And I mean participation not only in this Forum, but also in DNA relatives in 23andme. I have been trying very hard to encourage people to test with 23andme. I now understand their reticence.
I wish to encourage broad participation, but it has to be done responsibly. And thus, we are still owed an explanation of the process by which information posted in this thread was obtained, and the steps taken to secure the approval of the individuals at stake.

If you think that you can trace these results to a name then good luck, because you will need it.
Also if you think that anyone cares that X is 5% Y then again good luck deriving any potential damage from that.

That's public data, as 23andme clearly stipulates. Users have the option not to share, if they are scared of leaks. And I've never given out a name. So, you are literally looking at some random numbers, which don't trace back to anyone.

Thus, you are really being overly dramatic.
But I encourage you to do the same through the more ethical approach. Pointing fingers at and throwing blames around is easy, but you also benefited from this info, as you have previously stated.

Fungene
06-22-2018, 02:33 PM
You did not respond to the question, and much of what you wrote is irrelevant.
Clearly, you do not understand informed consent and the right to privacy.
For some of us, it's part of our usual responsibilities to make sure we abide by these rights.
Here are 23andme's policies:
https://www.23andme.com/about/privacy/

You are not 23andme. If you cannot ensure that informed consent was provided to you by the people whose information you use in this thread and in general in this Forum, the correct response is simply to have the information at stake scrubbed. That is the nondramatic response.

Dorkymon
06-22-2018, 04:50 PM
You did not respond to the question, and much of what you wrote is irrelevant.
Clearly, you do not understand informed consent and the right to privacy.
For some of us, it's part of our usual responsibilities to make sure we abide by these rights.
Here are 23andme's policies:
https://www.23andme.com/about/privacy/

You are not 23andme. If you cannot ensure that informed consent was provided to you by the people whose information you use in this thread and in general in this Forum, the correct response is simply to have the information at stake scrubbed. That is the nondramatic response.

You don't seem to understand that a member has to make a conscious decision to accept to make their results public, irrespective of the tool; be it Relatives or Share and Compare.
If that prerequisite is not met, then they will stay private.

"In general, Personal Information, once shared or disclosed, can be difficult to contain or retrieve. 23andMe will have no responsibility or liability for any consequences that may result because you have released or shared Personal Information with others."

Anyway, you are free not to visit this thread if you feel morally superior to such usual practices in this community.

Dorkymon
06-22-2018, 07:05 PM
This is just a notice for anyone who might want to backup something from this thread.
I have raised it for deletion, so expect it to disappear soon.

Moderator
06-23-2018, 03:14 AM
Thread closed