PDA

View Full Version : THE descendants of Alans, R1a



Bulat
03-31-2016, 08:56 PM
In this article about Alans of Tokhtamysh, R1a-CTS1806.

In 2015 by the EН Project "Suyun", have been tested men from representatives of clans Ayle, Qir-Qangli, Asili-Qobau and Ithel-Elan residing in the Republic Bashkortostan (RB, Tuymazinsky district). All tested men from this expedition were with haplogroup R1b and R1a..
Look at here. Page 188.

https://www.academia.edu/23883020/BEHPS_Vila_do_Conde-Moscow-Ufa_ISSN_2410-1788_Volume_3_3_1_2_March_2016_P.165-396

Silesian
03-31-2016, 10:54 PM
Burzyan- Bashkirs-KMS75-17146508A/G
http://www.kumbarov.com/ht35/aDNA_02_11_30_2015.pdf

Gravetto-Danubian
03-31-2016, 11:04 PM
How do we know these gentlemen are actually descended from "Alans". ?
Keep in mind , many different groups were called Alans in antiquity, most of which were in pannonia and the Caucasus, not Proto-Bashkiria

Bulat
04-01-2016, 03:33 AM
How do we know these gentlemen are actually descended from "Alans". ?
Keep in mind , many different groups were called Alans in antiquity, most of which were in pannonia and the Caucasus, not Proto-Bashkiria


In historical documents indicated that the Alans served in the Tokhtamysh army. In Bashkiria remained and descendants - is Kandri-Ithel-Elan clan. On page 188, see history of clan Kandri. According DNA their relatives - are descendants of Alans of the Caucasus - Karachays and Balkars, subclade R1a-CTS1806.

Bulat
04-01-2016, 03:41 AM
many different groups were called Alans in antiquity, most of which were in pannonia and the Caucasus, not Proto-Bashkiria

ALANS were in Aral and Ural too. These Massagetaes-Alans.
The paleo-DNA of Alans - R1a-Z2124.
The Alans of Caucasus have R1a-Y934, R1b-Z2103 clades.

About Alans
http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=2_27082015_8_1

Gravetto-Danubian
04-01-2016, 09:24 AM
ALANS were in Aral and Ural too. These Massagetaes-Alans.
The paleo-DNA of Alans - R1a-Z2124.
The Alans of Caucasus have R1a-Y934, R1b-Z2103 clades.

About Alans
http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=2_27082015_8_1

If I recall, aDNA from documented Alanic cemeteries in late antiquity and medieval period were Z93, but also G2 and J1.
So, we should look for such a mix amongst putative descendants
Moreover, Z93 has been around the southern Russia for thousands of years. So it would take far more aDNA (ie a complete temporal transect, and full sequences) to be able to arrive at conclusions about specific lineage and tribal links, IMHO

Silesian
04-01-2016, 09:03 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuZpu4JIZo0
ALANS were in Aral and Ural too. These Massagetaes-Alans.
The paleo-DNA of Alans - R1a-Z2124.
The Alans of Caucasus have R1a-Y934, R1b-Z2103 clades.

About Alans
http://suyun.info/index.php?LANG=ENG&p=2_27082015_8_1
There is a good chance that there are different Alan/Sarmatian clans of R1a/b.Have you tracked any movements of both?
For example I have found R1b-9219+ amongst Ossetians, Jaszsag and in Northern Italy.
Any patterns to see matching R1a/R1b from Ural with Ossetian project, R1b-9219+&R1a1a1b2a2a Z2123?
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ossetian/dna-results
Or Jaszasag project?
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Jaszsag/default.aspx?section=yresults

Or Alan Sarmatian settlements like Northern Italy for example?
http://www.marres.nl/afb/Vestigingen%20Noord-Italie.jpg
http://www.marres.education/sarmatic_traces.htm

Or possible R1a/b Sarmatian units stationed in places like Ribchester England?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribchester

Bulat
04-02-2016, 11:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuZpu4JIZo0
There is a good chance that there are different Alan/Sarmatian clans of R1a/b.Have you tracked any movements of both?
For example I have found R1b-9219+ amongst Ossetians, Jaszsag and in Northern Italy.
Any patterns to see matching R1a/R1b from Ural with Ossetian project, R1b-9219+&R1a1a1b2a2a Z2123?
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ossetian/dna-results
Or Jaszasag project?
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Jaszsag/default.aspx?section=yresults

Or Alan Sarmatian settlements like Northern Italy for example?
http://www.marres.nl/afb/Vestigingen%20Noord-Italie.jpg
http://www.marres.education/sarmatic_traces.htm

Or possible R1a/b Sarmatian units stationed in places like Ribchester England?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribchester

IMHO (my opinion):

- Massagetaes-Alans: R1a-Y934, Ra-CTS1806, R1b-Z2103. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans

Sarmatians:
- Roxolani-Sarmatians: CTS3402, CTS1211*Parent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxolani
- Aorsen-Sarmatians (Aorsi): N1c-L1034, R1a-Z2123, R1a-Y2632. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aorsi
- Iazyges-Sarmatians: G2a-L1264. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iazyges
- Siraces-Sarmatians: R1a-Z2122, R1a-M458.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siraces


Asii:
- Asuens (Wusun): R1a-FGC10232, R1a-M458. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wusun
- Asii: R1a-M458.
- Tocharians: R1a-M458. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians

Paleo-DNA:
- Tarim mummies: R1a-M458 (Tocharians) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_Desert_Highway

P.S. Proto-Celtic tribes: R1a-M458.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/TuranSurnames/default.aspx?section=yresults

Silesian
04-02-2016, 01:41 PM
Here are some dates for snp's as provided by https://www.yfull.com/tree/ R1a in blue R1b in red[ I also added a few not on your list, found in modern day populations]

- Massagetaes-Alans:
R1a-Y934,-R-Y934Y934formed 3800 ybp, TMRCA 3800 ybp
Ra-CTS1806FGC22475/YP455 3800 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybp
R1b-Z2103formed 6200 ybp, TMRCA 6100 ybpYamnaya-Kalmykia, modern day Avars
R1b-Z2106-formed 6100 ybp, TMRCA 6100Yamnaya-Kalmykia, modern day Tabasarans
R1b-Z2108Z2109/CTS1843 *formed 6100 ybp, TMRCA 6100 ybpYamnaya-Poltavka, modern day Burzyan Bashkirs
R1b-M73, M478R-M478Y13208 * Y13209 * Y13202+32 SNPsformed 13500 ybp, TMRCA 7300 ybpLebyazhinka Hunter Gatherer also found in Modern day Bashkirs
R1b- Z2110/CTS7822 *formed 6100 ybp, TMRCA 6100 ybp
R1b- CTS9219 * formed 4700 ybp, TMRCA 4400 ybp Modern day Ossetians/Alans.

Sarmatians:
R1a- CTS3402formed 4200 ybp, TMRCA 4200 ybp
R1a-Z2122formed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybp
R1a-M458formed 4700 ybp, TMRCA 4700 ybp

R1b-L51formed 6200 ybp, TMRCA 5800 ybpinfoModern day Europe
R1b-V8817200 ybp, TMRCA 10000 ybpmodern day Italy?

felipesc25
01-20-2018, 05:03 AM
Some of the r1a, j2 and g2a samples in iberia could came with alans. I saw some man that was j1 and he was related(with more or less 2200 years ago) with the Persian Nobility, and he is iberian, it could be related with alan nobility

Smilelover
02-25-2018, 06:51 PM
There is a result under r1a yp4141
written as From alans ..

Also there is results from turkey .. Georgia ..iran .. Azerbaijan .. italy .. poland .. UK
A near result from Tunisia .. looks like the path of alans migration

I think alans is at the base of R1a tree ??