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View Full Version : R-ZZ10* and R-BY4045 STR cluster updates



swid
04-01-2016, 03:00 PM
This will (likely) reduce my navel-gazing over in the main ZZ10 thread, as I haven't seen any new ZZ10* results coming in from the L21 SNP Pack lately. That being said, I do have some updates to STR clusters for R-ZZ10* and R-BY4045 men.

My personal opinion has been that the cluster that Mike currently lists me as being in - 10-z301016 - probably isn't a true clade, but now that we have R-BY4045 haplotypes (http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1388), I think this is a more robust replacement cluster:

456=15, 570=15, 395s1=15,17, 650=18, 715>=25, 533>=13

These 67- and 111-marker kits from Mike's L21 spreadsheet are in this cluster:
N33209 Whidden
130998 Whidden
130657 Whidden
B12750 Wall
N16219 Wall
422116 Wall
N129953 Jacob
187958 Wilson

It's not a perfect cluster (in large part since it does not have any single-copy slow markers to define it), but even at 67 markers, it's pretty distinctive. The last two haplotypes are much more closely related to each other (66/67 and 104/111) than to the rest of the cluster.

Also, the df13-z42613-A cluster (and possibly -B and -C) should be renamed to 10-z42613, as we know that Allen N3983 is R-ZZ10* from Big Y testing (http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=1393).

swid
01-27-2017, 07:18 PM
January 2017 update for the R-ZZ10 and Misc Subclades Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-ZZ10andMiscSubclades/default.aspx?section=yresults):

We've been able to define some structure within the R-BY4047 clade (which has been renamed from BY4045 for consistency with single-SNP offerings from FTDNA and YSEQ), as a Big Y result from 187958 (Wilson) broke up the BY4047 block; his results are an outgroup to the remaining Wall - Whidden clade, BY4050: http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1388

As a very rough estimate, the BY4047 clade appears to be about the same age as CTS3386 (which YFull estimates to be 3900 years old). All known or suspected BY4047+ kits have a MDKA in England (or if unknown, circumstantial evidence points to an English origin). Based on the STR values for the markers above, I've been able to identify two additional kits expected to be BY4050+, 24137 (Cooper) and 78657 (Lord); both kits cluster closely with the Wall kits.

We've also had a second Big Y results from a second Allen kit; the former df13-z42613-A cluster is now defined by BY12512 and has about 20 SNPs in its block.

Finally, of the remaining men I've found listed as R-ZZ10_1 at FTDNA, kit only 213368 (MacGregor) has no close matches at 67 markers; all others have close matches with men in known clades below ZZ10.

swid
05-15-2017, 01:26 AM
We've had a second Big Y come in on the (now former) BY4047* clade over the weekend; his results are already available on the Big Tree (http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1388&star=true). Once Alex is able to finalize his results, he and Wilson will share a number of SNPs in a downstream block.

I've been in contact with this newest BY4047+ result (who has only tested out to 37 markers himself), and he's informed me that his closest match has tested out to 111 markers. As expected, his match has all the marker values that define the BY4047 cluster.

Mikewww
05-16-2017, 01:34 PM
We've had a second Big Y come in on the (now former) BY4047* clade over the weekend; his results are already available on the Big Tree (http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1388&star=true). Once Alex is able to finalize his results, he and Wilson will share a number of SNPs in a downstream block.

I've been in contact with this newest BY4047+ result (who has only tested out to 37 markers himself), and he's informed me that his closest match has tested out to 111 markers. As expected, his match has all the marker values that define the BY4047 cluster.
Swid, please submit the two kit #s and the kit number per each BY4047 downstream subclade (brother) to Michael Sager. at FTDNA. He'll review the BAM files and update the haplotree within 2-3 days. You don't have to mess with the BAM files at all.

swid
05-16-2017, 05:46 PM
You don't even have to give him the SNP positions anymore? That cuts down on the prereq work and manually comparing on the Big Tree or using the Big Y match shared SNPs to figure that out. Thanks for the heads-up, Mike.

I have more ZZ10 subclade news, but I'll hold off on it until I have more time to write up a larger post.

swid
05-18-2017, 08:59 PM
With recent(ish) Big Y results, we now have some additional branching on the FTDNA haplotree underneath BY4047:



----R-BY4047
|----R-BY19430
|----R-BY4050
|----R-Y28571
|----R-BY19442

All of of the known (or strongly suspected) BY4047 results have been defined by the following STR values:
456=15, 570=15, 395s1=15,17, 650=18, 715>=25, 533>=13

The BY19430 clade is turning out to be larger than I had previously suspected; from the 67- and 111-marker matches of new members in the ZZ10 project, I've discovered a number of kits that are very likely to be BY19430 and did not have any visibility in the larger haplogroup projects and/or Mike's spreadsheets. I'm working through emailing these kits to see if they've be interested in joining our project.