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nawafalsulami
04-07-2016, 10:50 PM
I wonder if FTDNA has retired the Y-DNA 12 test. I don't see it offered on FTDNA website anymore.

Trojet
04-07-2016, 10:56 PM
It can still be ordered through group projects such as this one:
https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Project_Pending

Stephen1986
04-07-2016, 10:57 PM
Is it even of any genealogical use? Many of my 12-marker matches are from such distant places that our common ancestor probably lived well before any records were kept.

Tįltos
04-07-2016, 11:35 PM
Is it even of any genealogical use? Many of my 12-marker matches are from such distant places that our common ancestor probably lived well before any records were kept.

They are good when you don't want to spend a lot of money, but want to take a chance and see if someone who has your surname is a match. I found someone who shared my surname last year. I ordered the 12 marker and to my surprise he was a 12 marker match to my brother. I ordered the SNP Pack for Q-L245 and discovered he is Q-BZ68 which is off of Q-YP1003. My brother is Q-YP1003. Eventually I will order the Q-BZ68 for my brother. I also ordered a Family Finder test for him about a month ago. I'm hoping my brother and I will match him on the autosomes as well. :)

Stephen1986
04-07-2016, 11:40 PM
They are good when you don't want to spend a lot of money, but want to take a chance and see if someone who has your surname is a match. I found someone who shared my surname last year. I ordered the 12 marker and to my surprise he was a 12 marker match to my brother. I ordered the SNP Pack for Q-L245 and discovered he is Q-BZ68 which is off of Q-YP1003. My brother is Q-YP1003. Eventually I will order the Q-BZ68 for my brother. I also ordered a Family Finder test for him about a month ago. I'm hoping my brother and I will match him on the autosomes as well. :)

That's a good point. For myself, I have very few Smith matches at any level of yDNA testing.

nawafalsulami
04-07-2016, 11:53 PM
I agree with Tįltos's point about the affordability of the 12 makers test. If FTDNA is planning to phase out the Y-DNA 12 test, they need to bring the price of next tier tests one step down, so the starter test matches the current price of Y-DNA 12 test.

A cheap starter test should be useful for surveying a population of interest for a specific haplotype. Once potential individuals are identified, more expensive and advanced tests can be used.

Tįltos
04-08-2016, 12:04 AM
I agree with Tįltos's point about the affordability of the 12 makers test. If FTDNA is planning to phase out the Y-DNA 12 test, they need to bring the price of next tier tests one step down, so the starter test matches the current price of Y-DNA 12 test.

A cheap starter test should be useful for surveying a population of interest for a specific haplotype. Once potential individuals are identified, more expensive and advanced tests can be used.

I'm not sure they are looking to phase it out. But they *probably* prefer people to order the more expensive tests, therefore making it like a treasure hunt to figure out how to order it. :)

rms2
04-08-2016, 12:15 AM
One of my best 111-marker matches started out as an exact 12-marker match (and he does not share my surname). I watch for them, and if they look good, I contact them and try to get them to upgrade. If the match has my surname, I will offer to pay for the upgrade if I can't talk him/her into springing for it him/herself.

rivergirl
04-08-2016, 12:53 AM
We use 12 marker tests for a specific variant surname family group in one of my projects.
Two family groups with a specific variant of the surname have very different 12 marker haplotypes, we can tell by 12 markers which particular family group the men are related to.
Some go on to order more markers, but as one gentlemen has been paying for the tests on men with this variant surname most stay at 12 markers.

Tįltos
04-08-2016, 12:59 AM
I think FTDNA should market 12 marker tests in a bundle package, and offer them at a discount for family reunions. If I had my way I would love to take at least 50 of these 12 marker tests to my grandfather's ancestral village in southern Italy. It is a pretty isolated village and one of the first Arbėreshė settlements there.

GoldenHind
04-08-2016, 02:12 AM
The value of a 12 marker STR test largely depends on how common or rare the 12 marker haplotype is. I happen to have a number of rare marker values in the first 12, so have only two exact matches, and one is a known relation. If one has a very common 12 marker haplotype, like the R1b WAMH, the test will show an enormous number of matches, many of whom aren't connected within a span of several thousand years.

Another advantage of the 12 marker test is that FTDNA is able to predict from it a basic haplogroup, which is very useful.

AJL
04-08-2016, 03:10 AM
That's a good point. For myself, I have very few Smith matches at any level of yDNA testing.

I feel you: the curse of "Smith."

rms2
04-08-2016, 10:54 PM
I wish FTDNA could bring down the cost of its 111-marker test. Just dreaming.

TigerMW
04-09-2016, 03:42 AM
One of my best 111-marker matches started out as an exact 12-marker match (and he does not share my surname). I watch for them, and if they look good, I contact them and try to get them to upgrade. If the match has my surname, I will offer to pay for the upgrade if I can't talk him/her into springing for it him/herself.
I have the opposite experience. 12 markers matches mean nothing to my father's line. My best match at 111 is a GD of 6 but he is GD of 2 from me at 12. So far in my 1000 year old subclade, I am the only person with both my off-modal values on my first 12. They must be very recent.

On the other hand, on one grandmother's father line I get a match at 12 marker notification email almost every couple of days.

I always look at every haplotype of a person with my surname or a variant, but I pretty much just ignore 12 markers and shoot for 37 to even get in the ball game.

As you can see, I think 12 markers are useless. They really just carry the registration cost of being in the project system and matching database so there real charge is a ticket to cover I/T charges. That's my opinion.

I would like to see the 37 STR marker come down in price.

jjtjr
04-13-2016, 04:46 PM
I have taken the FTDNA Big-Y and Y-111 tests. I recently tested a known 3rd cousin at YSEQ for my 2 individual Terminal SNP's. He is a match. I am testing another distant cousin now and would like to test a few more distant cousins for these SNP's.

I realize that having them take the Big-Y and Y-DNA 111 STR tests would be the best way to prove our DNA connection, but that is way too expensive for multiple Family members.

I have a question about the Y-DNA 12 test. If I sign them up for the FTDNA Y-DNA test through a Surname project they automatically become members of the project. The Y-DNA test is $59.00, but they would get a slight discount on some of the other tests.

I realize that the Y-DNA 12 is not as good for genealogy purposes as the Y-DNA 67 or 111 tests, but since we are known relatives and share SNP's would this help establish my Family's particular DNA?

dp
04-13-2016, 11:44 PM
I like the Y-37 STR test for its value / dollar, plus it's the lowest level test that garners the $20 project discount. Exact matches should be your relatives, but to be sure then you can upgrade later. I have one relative that have no 37 STR matches, and only one 25 STR match. The MRCA for the later is about 700 years ago; ie in that particular case 37 more than suits my purpose.

Even with Big-Y my tip marker only moved down two levels below Z2961, since I don't have any not immediate relatives too test, I'll have to wait for more Big-Ys to come up that match me on one of my 29 "private" markers for me to move down any more.
Long Story short, based on my genealogy, if I could contact descendants of my ggg-uncle Charles Dickens Powell, that moved to Hampton Roads, VA in the 1870s, I'd love to get one tested.
dp :-)

I have taken the FTDNA Big-Y and Y-111 tests. I recently tested a known 3rd cousin at YSEQ for my 2 individual Terminal SNP's. He is a match. I am testing another distant cousin now and would like to test a few more distant cousins for these SNP's.

I realize that having them take the Big-Y and Y-DNA 111 STR tests would be the best way to prove our DNA connection, but that is way too expensive for multiple Family members.

I have a question about the Y-DNA 12 test. If I sign them up for the FTDNA Y-DNA test through a Surname project they automatically become members of the project. The Y-DNA test is $59.00, but they would get a slight discount on some of the other tests.

I realize that the Y-DNA 12 is not as good for genealogy purposes as the Y-DNA 67 or 111 tests, but since we are known relatives and share SNP's would this help establish my Family's particular DNA?

jjtjr
04-14-2016, 12:29 AM
Right now I have a third cousin who has tested positive for my 2 Terminal SNP's at YSEQ. I am also testing a 1st cousin 1x removed and a 2nd cousin 1x removed for those 2 SNP's at YSEQ.

I have also invited 2 other 3rd cousins descended from different brothers of my Great-Grandfather and a 4th cousin descended from my Great-Great-Grandfather's brother to take the same YSEQ SNP tests.

My Gr.-GR.-Grandfather and his brother were born in the 1790's. I am trying to make connections from a few hundred years before then.

YSEQ is also developing a panel to test for my Unique Mutations below my current Terminal SNP. If I have matches in this panel with my cousins, I assume that it point towards a Family DNA marker, is this correct?

I am trying to connect to FTDNA's database the most economical way. That is why I am thinking of using the Y-DNA 12 tests.

rms2
04-14-2016, 12:57 AM
I have the opposite experience. 12 markers matches mean nothing to my father's line. My best match at 111 is a GD of 6 but he is GD of 2 from me at 12. So far in my 1000 year old subclade, I am the only person with both my off-modal values on my first 12. They must be very recent.

On the other hand, on one grandmother's father line I get a match at 12 marker notification email almost every couple of days.

I always look at every haplotype of a person with my surname or a variant, but I pretty much just ignore 12 markers and shoot for 37 to even get in the ball game.

As you can see, I think 12 markers are useless. They really just carry the registration cost of being in the project system and matching database so there real charge is a ticket to cover I/T charges. That's my opinion.

I would like to see the 37 STR marker come down in price.

I have had pretty good luck with 12-marker matches, but not all of them are meaningful, obviously. Better 12 markers than nothing, IMHO. They are a start.

Saetro
04-14-2016, 11:43 PM
Is it even of any genealogical use? Many of my 12-marker matches are from such distant places that our common ancestor probably lived well before any records were kept.

Depends.
I have zero matches for my Y DNA. I am on a rare branch of a rare haplotype.
My surname is of occupational origin and is moderately common.
I am already in a surname project and there are no matches there.
What I probably need to do (when I get back to working on this branch) is to offer free 12-marker testing to anyone of that surname who came from within a 100km radius of my ancestors' home village.
Any match will be a relative.
So that test can be a very powerful tool for me.

For someone with a plain vanilla haplotype for their ancestral area - such as R1b in Britain - that is certainly not an option.

Although I agree with Taltos that it can be a valuable dipping of the toe into the pond for someone who has no concept of DNA genealogy - whatever their haplotype.