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View Full Version : Hm... maybe not so "Norse". Slow mutation DYS393=14 & DYS19=16



Dante
04-14-2016, 10:13 AM
I am r1b to begin with

R1b1b2a1a2d as per 23&me which if I am to believe some information originated with Gauls of northwestern France.

R-BY3459 - Haplogroup R-P312 apparently as per familytree DNA.

According to Nat Geno 2.0 that goes a bit further - U152 / L2


From what I understand a potential 5% of the population may have this DYS393=14. It is a slow mutation marker so pretty identifiable for groups.

There's haplotype models to this - apparently I match more to the Iberian haplotype than the Germanic haplotype. The bias towards Iberia over Germanic areas, as well as the inclusion of known European Celtic areas, suggest that the haplotype most likely came to Britain with the Iberians or the Celts in pre-Roman times.



DYS19=16 is likewise a slow mutation marker. Most people know this is likely Scandinavian.

Again there are haplotype models. I don't match the Scandinavian model, I match closer to the 3rd haplotype model.

These matches are consistent with Celtic or Iberian ancestry, suggesting that this haplotype may have come to Britain with prehistoric hunter-gatherers. There are a number of lower frequency matches in Norway and Finland, which is interesting. This haplotype model #3 is actually predominant in Mediterranean regions [Spanish / Italian] before general northern European.


I am wondering does anyone can similar DYS markers / connections? Or does anyone know any information about these beyond what I have commented?

EastAnglian
04-15-2016, 08:59 AM
Eupedia has some good distribution maps:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml#R1b

As you can see U152 isn't Iberian.

Dante
04-15-2016, 09:24 AM
Eupedia has some good distribution maps:

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml#R1b

As you can see U152 isn't Iberian.

Oddly enough, while R1b-U152 is found everywhere in the Iberian peninsula, its frequency never exceeds 5%. http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/spain_portugal_dna.shtml



Yet the DYS SNP markers, which from what I've seen among DNA family trees are pretty rare, are Iberian.

The placement of myself in haplogroup U152 could be as simple as the fact a proper haplogroup hasn't been identified yet. That classification has, in the last year, changed three times after all.

R.Rocca
04-15-2016, 10:28 AM
Oddly enough, while R1b-U152 is found everywhere in the Iberian peninsula, its frequency never exceeds 5%. http://www.eupedia.com/genetics/spain_portugal_dna.shtml

Yet the DYS SNP markers, which from what I've seen among DNA family trees are pretty rare, are Iberian.

The placement of myself in haplogroup U152 could be as simple as the fact a proper haplogroup hasn't been identified yet. That classification has, in the last year, changed three times after all.

There are very few U152+ L2+ confirmed Iberians in any FamilyTreeDNA project, so are you sure the Iberians you are looking at aren't P312+ DF27+?

MitchellSince1893
04-15-2016, 02:45 PM
On Alex Williamson's bigtree, Iberian is roughly 15% of ~90 L2 samples
http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=437

And about 10% of the ~70 samples on yfull's ytree https://yfull.com/tree/R-L2/

Although not broken down to the L2 level here are U152 numbers from Busby and Myers studies

In Busby it was almost 13% in Castro Verde in southern Portugal. It is 7% in Valencia, 9% in Central Portual, In other locations it was 1-3%.

The Myres study numbers weren't as high.
Cantabria, Santander 3.1%
Castille and Leon, Leon 2.4%
Valencian Community, Valencia: 6.2%
Portugal, Lisbon: 3%
Andalusia, Sevilla: .08%