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bradly88
04-25-2016, 05:58 AM
I have been trying to find a connection between the R1b yDNA haplogroup and the blood type B both of which I am. I just want to know which human races are R1b and B blood type. That is why I can find out so any comments would be beneficial.

Romilius
04-25-2016, 02:53 PM
I have been trying to find a connection between the R1b yDNA haplogroup and the blood type B both of which I am. I just want to know which human races are R1b and B blood type. That is why I can find out so any comments would be beneficial.

Yes and no... I think that we can turn the hypothesis down according to group 0 distribution (the commonest group in the world), or the A group distribution, which is in higher percentages (in relation with 0 and B group) in northern Europe (i.e. the places where Yamnaya ancestry is the greatest).

Silesian
09-20-2017, 07:04 PM
I have been trying to find a connection between the R1b yDNA haplogroup and the blood type B both of which I am. I just want to know which human races are R1b and B blood type. That is why I can find out so any comments would be beneficial.

Blood type B allele has elevated frequencies in Asia[Buryats, Chuvash, Romani, Hindu's Bombay]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_distribution_by_country
Scroll down to Ethnic distribution. Scott's [51%+/- type O]>[34%+/-type A]>[12%+/-type B]
[I]Ethnic distribution of ABO (without Rh) blood types[33]
The connection is inverse.
The vast majority of Hunter-Gatherer samples from [page 54] were found have homozygosity for the type O allele @ 71%. The remaining 16% European Hunter Gatherers were type A allele[84%+16%]. Type B allele was not found, in European Hunter Gatherers and/or any European Neolithic populations. The study points out the B allele was introduced into Europe by Steppe populations who were estimated to carry it at ~8% frequency.

http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2017/09/19/135616.DC4/135616-1.pdf

Observer
09-20-2017, 07:23 PM
The vast majority of Hunter-Gatherer samples from [page 54] were found have homozygosity for the type O allele @ 71%. The remaining 16% European Hunter Gatherers were type A allele[84%+16%]. Type B allele was not found, in European Hunter Gatherers and/or any European Neolithic populations. The study points out the B allele was introduced into Europe by Steppe populations who were estimated to carry it at ~8% frequency.

http://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/suppl/2017/09/19/135616.DC4/135616-1.pdf

Fascinating, had no idea it was possible to tell what blood-type ancient remains belonged to.

parasar
09-20-2017, 07:52 PM
Fascinating, had no idea it was possible to tell what blood-type ancient remains belonged to.

And as Silesian noted from the paper, B correlates well with steppe influence.
"We do not detect the B allele (rs8176746 and rs8176747) in any hunter-gatherers suggesting that all other individuals were type A. In fact, the B allele is not seen in any Neolithic populations either, and is introduced into Europe by Steppe populations who we estimate carry it at ~8% frequency."

"I would think B is correlated to Indo-Aryans"
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?1841-Blood-groups-represent-admixture&p=26278&viewfull=1#post26278
http://anthro.palomar.edu/vary/images/map_of_B_blood_in_the_world.gif

parasar
09-20-2017, 08:23 PM
We can also exclude Amerindians (ANE + East Asian) and Australians as the source of B.

"Blood group B has its highest frequency in South Asia where it ranks first as the largest share of the earth's population. In Southeast Asia the share of the population is high, especially in Thailand and Indonesia, then in East Asia, Northern Asia and neighboring Central Asia, and its incidence diminishes both towards the west and the east, falling to single digit percentages in Netherlands, Norway and Portugal.[34][35] It is believed to have been entirely absent from Native American and Australian Aboriginal populations prior to the arrival of Europeans in those areas."

Silesian
09-21-2017, 06:06 PM
We can also exclude Amerindians (ANE + East Asian) and Australians as the source of B.

"Blood group B has its highest frequency in South Asia where it ranks first as the largest share of the earth's population. In Southeast Asia the share of the population is high, especially in Thailand and Indonesia, then in East Asia, Northern Asia and neighboring Central Asia, and its incidence diminishes both towards the west and the east, falling to single digit percentages in Netherlands, Norway and Portugal.[34][35] It is believed to have been entirely absent from Native American and Australian Aboriginal populations prior to the arrival of Europeans in those areas."

parasar can you help me decipher these groups in these two studies, the link between UP Brahmins and ydna?
Can you shed some light on the frequencies of blood type B in these special tested groups?
Result's and discussion section
http://precedings.nature.com/documents/5931/version/1/files/npre20115931-1.pdf
Compiled data set section
http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v54/n1/full/jhg20082a.html

Mis
09-21-2017, 06:33 PM
Is there a correlation between R1b- (Z2109-Z2110) and B +?
I have B

parasar
09-21-2017, 07:03 PM
parasar can you help me decipher these groups in these two studies, the link between UP Brahmins and ydna?
Can you shed some light on the frequencies of blood type B in these special tested groups?
Result's and discussion section
http://precedings.nature.com/documents/5931/version/1/files/npre20115931-1.pdf
Compiled data set section
http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v54/n1/full/jhg20082a.html

"among the Brahmin population of UP is shown in table 1. In total 200 samples analyzed, phenotype B blood type has the highest frequency 42% (n=84) ... Except Nepal and India (present study), frequency of O blood group is highest"
These are Brahmans from eastern Uttar Pradesh ("200 unrelated individuals of both genders belonging to the Brahmin caste from Jaunpur, Varanasi, Allahabad districts") - one of the closest populations to me. I'm from Bihar just to their east but have many relatives from eastern UP.

I'm B+ and R1a1. Most UP Brahmans are R1a1. Y-R total is in the 80-90% range with the rest J, H, C.

Silesian
09-21-2017, 07:13 PM
Is there a correlation between R1b- (Z2109-Z2110) and B +?
I have B
I don't know, good question. Until they release more Z2109/10 samples we are just guessing, either from Scythian/Sarmatian or Yamnaya. Z2109 and Z2110 are also found in Pakistan and Ossetian/Alan regions. The study quoted shows that B is associated with the Steppe movements and their does seem to be a connection with elevated B in Brahmins also[parasar =R1a1+B+]. Latvia and Lithuania have 20-30% B+/- also. If the old R1b Hunter Gatherer from Latvia had mostly type O and or [a little A] then it looks like there might have been a turnover with type B making up 1/5 to a 1/3+/-, and as far away as Scotland =bradly is also B+. Just a guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_distribution_by_country

Michał
09-21-2017, 08:05 PM
I'm B+ and R1a1.
I'm B+ and R1a1, as well, but I am a B/0 heterozygote with B inherited from my mother and 0 inherited from my A/0 father who was also R1a1, which of course demonstrates that the blood group B shows no genetic linkeage with haplogroup R1.


Is there a correlation between R1b- (Z2109-Z2110) and B +?
I have B
There might be such a correlation on the population level, which means those populations that show high frequencies of R1 (including R1b-Z2109) are more likely to show elevated frequencies of blood group B. However, this is not going to work the same way within a thoroughly mixed population, so in Poland there probably is no statistically significant relationship between the presence of haplogroup R1 and blood group B.

parasar
09-21-2017, 08:29 PM
I'm B+ and R1a1, as well, but I am a B/0 heterozygote with B inherited from my mother and 0 inherited from my A/0 father who was also R1a1, which of course demonstrates that the blood group B shows no genetic linkeage with haplogroup R1.

...

True the ABO markers are not on the Y.
ABO was not selected for (unlike say skin color, LP etc.), so it was likely dragged up from 0% in pre Bronze Europe due to (the non-EHG portion of) Steppe admixture.

Tomenable
09-21-2017, 08:51 PM
So EHG had 0% of blood type B, that's surprising. Was it from CHG?:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10564-The-Genomic-History-of-Southeastern-Europe-Mathieson-Reich-et-al&p=289640#post289640

Tomenable
09-21-2017, 09:13 PM
Is Figure S2.5 really in agreement with the text?

Silesian
09-21-2017, 09:14 PM
True the ABO markers are not on the Y.
ABO was not selected for (unlike say skin color, LP etc.), so it was likely dragged up from 0% in pre Bronze Europe due to (the non-EHG portion of) Steppe admixture.

Blood groups have mutation dates and geographical regions [A-B-O-AB]. Ydna-[snps] have the same. Blood type AIM + specific snp ydna might prove to be very useful in the future[just my opinion]

Interestingly, in all American populations, the same set of haplotypes O(1), O(1v), and O(1v(G542A)) was present, suggesting the following: (1) that they constitute the main genetic pool of the founding population of the Americas and (2) that they derive from the same ancestral source, partially supporting the single founding population hypothesis It would be of interest to find out the ydna markers they carry.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19862808

Silesian
09-21-2017, 09:19 PM
So EHG had 0% of blood type B, that's surprising. Was it from CHG?:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?10564-The-Genomic-History-of-Southeastern-Europe-Mathieson-Reich-et-al&p=289640#post289640

The allele B mutation is thought to have arisen in the East 20-25k+/-,from what I can remember another study on blood mutation. In A.E Mourant's work the Caucasus are either A or O,[ for example Armenians are high in A].

parasar
09-21-2017, 09:26 PM
Is Figure S2.5 really in agreement with the text?

Yes I think so.
All listed populations have B at 0.0
O varies from ~0.6 to 1.0. The rest is A.

Observer
09-21-2017, 11:11 PM
Iain Matheson (https://twitter.com/mathiesoniain/status/911001882063142913) just posted this on twitter. B appears to have been introduced from steppes. Rh- was found in both hunter-gatherers and in steppe populations.


Blood groups in ancient Europe
http://mathii.github.io/2017/09/21/blood-groups-in-ancient-europe

"It tuns out that the O allele is at high frequency in hunter-gatherers, but relatively rare on the Steppe. The B allele seems to be absent in both hunter-gatherers and early farmers, and seems to be introduced from the steppe in the Bronze Age. The Rh- allele seems to be relatively common in hunter-gatherers and, particularly, in steppe populations, and relatively rare in early farmers, partly confirming Haldane and Cavalli-Sforzaís hypotheses. Allele frequency estimates are in the figures below (bars show 95% binomial confidence intervals)."

Silesian
09-22-2017, 02:32 AM
Iain Matheson (https://twitter.com/mathiesoniain/status/911001882063142913) just posted this on twitter. B appears to have been introduced from steppes. Rh- was found in both hunter-gatherers and in steppe populations.

What a nice surprise-Fantastic work! More questions. If A allele is the oldest-and related to Bonobo/Chimpanzee,followed by B allele followed by [4] separate O mutation type allele, we should see a nice dispersal pattern[migration-OOA 70-100k+/- ]in decent quantities+ admixture with Neaderthal coupled with allele for A or B and/or AB+Neaderthal. However to me it looks/gets a little wonky. Near East Natufian has little or no Neaderthal and elevated O allele. Then you have separated ancient relic populations[Australia]in theory,isolated[frozen in time] following dispersal[OOA] 47K+/-[ydna C*] have little to no B allele also, however they have elevated Neaderthal and Denisovan? Deep Roots for Aboriginal Australian Y Chromosomeshttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819516/

https://dscleb.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/map_of_b_blood_in_the_world.gif

Then you have direct populations/regions-Europe 12K-BP+/- adjacent to Africa, are now shown to have no B allele or mixed AB alleles- predominantly O allele + high RH values similar to North African Berbers[AB alleles?]+ and Neaderthal?

Even more perplexing - AB frequencies world wide are very low for the two to have co-existed for a long time both in and out of Africa dispersal.
Also Americas have no B and or AB allele-https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19862808

parasar
09-22-2017, 03:17 AM
What a nice surprise-Fantastic work! More questions. If A allele is the oldest-and related to Bonobo/Chimpanzee,followed by B allele followed by [4] separate O mutation type allele, we should see a nice dispersal pattern[migration-OOA 70-100k+/- ]in decent quantities+ admixture with Neaderthal coupled with allele for A or B and/or AB+Neaderthal. However to me it looks/gets a little wonky. Near East Natufian has little or no Neaderthal and elevated O allele. Then you have separated ancient relic populations[Australia]in theory,isolated[frozen in time] following dispersal[OOA] 47K+/-[ydna C*] have little to no B allele also, however they have elevated Neaderthal and Denisovan? Deep Roots for Aboriginal Australian Y Chromosomeshttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819516/

...
Then you have direct populations/regions-Europe 12K-BP+/- adjacent to Africa, are now shown to have no B allele or mixed AB alleles- predominantly O allele + high RH values similar to North African Berbers[AB alleles?]+ and Neaderthal?

Even more perplexing - AB frequencies world wide are very low for the two to have co-existed for a long time both in and out of Africa dispersal.
Also Americas have no B and or AB allele-https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19862808

Yes very confusing. I think we may be seeing a later recurrent mutation for B after O. Perhaps that is the reason for this qualifier:
"In evolutionary sense, types A and B are the oldest, since those polymorphisms are shared with other primates. The human type O allele is a more recent mutation, but still probably at least one million years old (the Altai Neanderthal is type O, for example). In present-day populations, all three alleles segregate in Africa, A/O are most common in Europe with B~5-10%, B is relatively common in Asia, but O is virtually fixed in Native Americans."

Also:
"rs8176719 (G/-) defines blood group 0 in case of G deletion; rs7853989 (C;C or C;G) defines likely blood group B while (G;G) excludes B, rs8176746 (C;C) defines blood group A and (A;A) is characteristic of blood group B, rs8176747 (G;G) defines either allele A or O"

So following the above for me:

rs8176719
— / C
This would make me not O

rs7853989
C / G
This would make me B

rs8176746
G / T
This would make me not A.

rs8176747
C / G
This would make me neither O nor A.

So B is correct.

Ravai
09-22-2017, 09:14 AM
I am R1b-U152 and my father is B-

My father is B-

"rs7853989","9","136131592","CG"

My mother is 0+

"rs7853989","9","136131592","GG"

Me Ņ? Not blood group B

"rs7853989","9","136131592","GG"

If my father is B- and my mother 0+, what can I be?

Regards

rms2
09-22-2017, 11:40 AM
Have you all seen this (http://mathii.github.io/2017/09/21/blood-groups-in-ancient-europe)?

Sorry if it has already been brought up.

Silesian
09-22-2017, 06:45 PM
*Highly speculative possibilities on Iain rh- Steppe stats
Iain might want to check out the pathology of King Tut with regards to the speculation of [if correct A2rh-] and malaria resistance. ct scan-skull of King Tut reminds me of Shigir Idol. Anterior nasal aperture is of similar style[speculate on my part.]Differentiated by large circular nasal aperture found as one gets closer to the equator. As opposed to Neaderthal. [perhaps an mother nature giving a helping hand-evolutionary warming/filtering [dust]chamber]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21660932
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/05/photogalleries/tut_mummy/photo3.html
http://visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/shigir-idol.htm

Climatic fluctuation of Younger Dryas might have also helped mother nature in an evolution advantage on the Mammoth Steppe.
Equatorial winds- moist/lush jungle slow 1x
Pole winds fast 10x
Mammoth Steppe winds fast+ dust and particulate. Rh- might not have evolved to help with malaria/instead evolved in Northern climate-glacier-regions to help transfer CO2 more efficiently in a dusty wind regions.
Basque and Berber are both at elevated levels for mutation and elevation.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/05/25_rhesus.shtml
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16563833


http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/05/25_rhesus.shtml

Ravai
09-26-2017, 09:20 AM
I am R1b-U152 and my father is B-

My father is B-

"rs7853989","9","136131592","CG"

My mother is 0+

"rs7853989","9","136131592","GG"

Me Ņ? Not blood group B

"rs7853989","9","136131592","GG"

If my father is B- and my mother 0+, what can I be?

Regards

Erratum: My father is B+ (not negative). Sorry.

khanabadoshi
09-26-2017, 09:54 AM
Yes very confusing. I think we may be seeing a later recurrent mutation for B after O. Perhaps that is the reason for this qualifier:
"In evolutionary sense, types A and B are the oldest, since those polymorphisms are shared with other primates. The human type O allele is a more recent mutation, but still probably at least one million years old (the Altai Neanderthal is type O, for example). In present-day populations, all three alleles segregate in Africa, A/O are most common in Europe with B~5-10%, B is relatively common in Asia, but O is virtually fixed in Native Americans."

Also:
"rs8176719 (G/-) defines blood group 0 in case of G deletion; rs7853989 (C;C or C;G) defines likely blood group B while (G;G) excludes B, rs8176746 (C;C) defines blood group A and (A;A) is characteristic of blood group B, rs8176747 (G;G) defines either allele A or O"

So following the above for me:

rs8176719
— / C
This would make me not O

rs7853989
C / G
This would make me B

rs8176746
G / T
This would make me not A.

rs8176747
C / G
This would make me neither O nor A.

So B is correct.

rs8176719: -/- ::: Not O.

rs7853989: G/G ::: Not B.

rs8176746: G/G ::: Not A.

rs8176747: C/C ::: Not O or A.

???

I am fairly sure I am B+, but now I can't remember if it was +/-. Then again, now I'm not sure I am B. LOL.
My mother is O-, of that I am certain.

parasar
09-26-2017, 02:01 PM
rs8176719: -/- ::: Not O.

...

I am fairly sure I am B+, but now I can't remember if it was +/-. Then again, now I'm not sure I am B. LOL.
My mother is O-, of that I am certain.

Looks like you are O since you have G deletions.

Romilius
09-26-2017, 04:36 PM
Erratum: My father is B+ (not negative). Sorry.

You could be B or 0. The latter only if your father brought heterozygosity.

RobertCasey
09-26-2017, 05:05 PM
If you really want to get into using blood types and how they relate migration patterns, etc. Look at the very interesting and unorthodox studies by Dr. Albert Eugene Casey - he published sixteen very large volumes which includes analysis of thousands of blood samples from the 1950s and 1960s tracking 20 or 30 variations of blood types. It also is the source of dozens of very early Irish family histories back into the 1700s. Caution - this is a very interesting read but very controversial study (cleaned up Eugenics approach including cranial measurements in some studies). He tested several thousand Irish people first and then later collected blood samples from thousands more across all of Europe. This was primarily based on blood characteristics associated with tested subjects. All this work was done in the 1950s and 1960s but reading the material much of this information looks pretty accurate for the time frame of the study. Mr. Casey was well established medical doctor who conducted all kinds of studies concerning blood - but his version of the migration of mankind was way out there based on around 20 variations associated with blood characteristics (actual blood type being just one factor).

OíKief, Coshe Mang, Slieve Lougher, and Upper Blackwater in Ireland. Birmingham, Ala., published and bound privately for the Knocknagree Historical Fund, 1952-1971; sixteen volumes and index; secondary editor on several volumes is Thomas Eugene P. Dowling, Schoolmaster and Principal, Curraghagalla National School, Parish of Glanworth, Fermoy, Co. Cork, Ireland. This collection is found in the National Library of Ireland.

"Several of his publications, including this unique collection of Irish sources, furthered his unorthodox notions of population genetics and Irish prehistory. So, here and there are found pages of craniometrics, pathologies, blood group studies, etc. which curiously punctuate the genealogical and historical material."

Rethel
10-01-2017, 04:56 PM
I only want to point out, that talking about hunter-gatherers having this or that,
when they are putted into one sach is sensless, as they are couple of different
groups. One group could have 50% of something, and another 0% - and the
average will be 25% for combind group, which has not even one provenance.

rms2
10-07-2017, 03:12 AM
Notice that the steppe people had the highest frequency of Type A and of Rh-, as well.

Rethel
10-07-2017, 07:25 PM
Notice that the steppe people had the highest frequency of Type A and of Rh-, as well.

So, have I the IEest blood ever? :)

Romilius
10-08-2017, 07:16 AM
So, have I the IEest blood ever? :)

It seems so

Goodman
10-08-2017, 12:53 PM
Iím R1b L21 and my fathers side came from Ireland to Liverpool in the early 1830ís where they worked as Cattle Drivers and Cattle Dealers eventually. Doing this line of work could have been a recent thing in my line; the imaginative side of me likes to think we were on the Steppe doing this kind of work all those years ago, sounds a bit far-fetched but you never know! For the record I donít work with cattle but my Grandad once said to me that his Grandfather was a farmer. I think this was an probably exaggeration as the census has us being cattle dealers/drivers probably working through the Liverpool docks.

My blood type is a subtype of A: A2 and Iím RH+ but genetically my results on 23andMe were A/O +/- so I carry the O gene and the RH negative genes too.
Iím not sure where the blood types come from but my mother is type A+ mtDNA K1a1b1.

Rethel
10-08-2017, 07:43 PM
It seems so

Nice :)

rms2
10-08-2017, 10:33 PM
So, have I the IEest blood ever? :)

I am A-, too, but it comes via my mother. My dad is O+.

angscoire
10-10-2017, 08:12 AM
I am A-, too, but it comes via my mother. My dad is O+.

I'm similar to Rethel . Type A and Rh- via my father.

rms2
10-10-2017, 11:33 AM
At this point I don't think there is a whole lot of genealogical information, even with regard to deep ancestry, that can be gleaned from one's blood type.

Silesian
10-10-2017, 08:46 PM
I'm similar to Rethel . Type A and Rh- via my father.
So many A-. rh is recessive gene, you inherited one gene from your father and one from your mother.
I'm also A-, my wife is o-.; making us both rh negative compatible-thankfully we did not have to consider RhoGam vaccine with possible mercury or aluminum ingredients..

Romilius
10-11-2017, 09:47 AM
I'm the only average Joe here? I'm O+...

rms2
10-16-2017, 11:07 PM
I'm the only average Joe here? I'm O+...

My dad is O+.