Big-Y Ordered!

[DillonResearcher]

I've just ordered the Big-Y in the sale! Hopefully I'll get a more specific location on the L2 tree and maybe find some new SNPs since I've not got any matches.

How long does the Big Y usually take?

[Ravai]

To me it took a month.

Regards

[DillonResearcher]

Okay, thanks. It's going to feel like a long month!

[DillonResearcher]

My results are in! I've now got haplogroup R-BY3506 with 31 novel SNPs all of which are high quality (according to FTDNA) and 2 of medium quality.
I'll get on and request the BAM file and then get some Y-Full interpretation. I can't seem to find BY3506 on Alex Williamson's Y-Tree or much mention of it online, is it a common haplogroup?

It's only been two and a half weeks since I ordered it (including waiting to get batched)!

[DillonResearcher]

Having had a better look now I'm the only person in the U-152 and Ireland Y project with BY3506

[gotten]

I can't seem to find BY3506 on Alex Williamson's Y-Tree

On the Big Tree the mutation is still shown as private with this kit: http://ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=339 .
So you will share a subbranch with that kit when you share your .bed and .vcf with Alex.

[DillonResearcher]

Thanks for finding that. Is there a way I can view more details about this individual e.g. country of origin for his MDKA?

[DillonResearcher]

Okay, I'm now feeling very confused. FTDNA have given me a haplogroup of BY3506 based on the Big-Y (L2>BY1145>BY3506). But when I looked through the results I noticed that I tested positive for BY3496 (which is on the same level on the tree as BY3506) and I tested positive for L135 which is on the same level as BY1145.

Is this some sort of a mistake as I thought you could only have one SNP from each "level" of the tree?

These are my SNP results if that makes it a bit clearer with the ones mentioned above in bold:

A1773-, A2150-, A274-, A4670-, A517-, BY1145+, BY2823-, BY2868-, BY3479+, BY3496+, BY3506+, BY3508+, BY3509+, BY575-, BY653-, CTS10429-, CTS10834-, CTS11567-, CTS11985+, CTS11994-, CTS12478+, CTS1751-, CTS2664+, CTS3063+, CTS3358+, CTS3386-, CTS3575+, CTS3654+, CTS3937-, CTS4244+, CTS4368+, CTS4466-, CTS4528-, CTS5330-, CTS5689-, CTS623-, CTS6937-, CTS7763-, DF103-, DF110-, DF17-, DF19-, DF21-, DF27 *, DF41-, DF49-, DF63-, DF81-, DF83-, DF88-, DF95-, DF99-, F115+, F1209+, F1329+, F1704+, F1714+, F1753+, F1767+, F2017-, F2048+, F2142+, F2155+, F2402+, F2587+, F2688+, F2691-, F2837+, F2863-, F2985+, F3111+, F313+, F3136+, F3335+, F3556+, F3692+, F47+, F719+, F82+, FGC10516 *, FGC11134-, FGC13620-, FGC20761-, FGC22501-, FGC3861-, FGC396-, FGC5301-, FGC5336-, FGC5344-, FGC5345-, FGC5351-, FGC5354-, FGC5356-, FGC5367-, FGC5373-, FGC5494-, FGC5798-, L1065-, L11+, L132+, L1335-, L135+, L138+, L15+, L150+, L151+, L16+, L2+, L21-, L23+, L23+, L238-, L265+, L278+, L278+, L350+, L371-, L389+, L389+, L407+, L408-, L468+, L47-, L470+, L48-, L482+, L483+, L498+, L500+, L502+, L506+, L51+, L51+, L513-, L52+, L584-, L585+, L617-, L747+, L752+, L754+, L761+, L768+, L773+, L774+, L779+, L82+, L881-, M168+, M173+, M1994-, M207+, M213+, M222-, M235+, M269+, M269+, M294+, M299+, M306+, M335-, M343+, M343+, M415+, M42+, M45+, M478-, M526+, M73-, M74+, M89+, M9+, M94+, MC14-, P128+, P131+, P132+, P133+, P134+, P135+, P136+, P138+, P139+, P14+, P140+, P141+, P143+, P145+, P146+, P148+, P149+, P151+, P157+, P158+, P159+, P160+, P161+, P163+, P166+, P187+, P207+, P224+, P225+, P226+, P228+, P229+, P230+, P231+, P232+, P233+, P234+, P235+, P236+, P237+, P238+, P239+, P242+, P243+, P244+, P245+, P280+, P281+, P282+, P283+, P284+, P285+, P286+, P294+, P295+, P297+, P297+, P310+, P310+, P311+, P311+, P312+, P312+, P316+, PAGES00026+, PAGES00081+, PAGES00083+, PF2591+, PF2608+, PF2611+, PF2615+, PF2745+, PF2747+, PF2748+, PF2749+, PF2770+, PF3252-, PF3561+, PF5869+, PF5871+, PF5882+, PF5886+, PF5888+, PF5953+, PF5956+, PF5957+, PF5964+, PF5965+, PF5982+, PF6063-, PF6145-, PF6246+, PF6249+, PF6250+, PF6263+, PF6270+, PF6271+, PF6272+, PF6409+, PF6425+, PF6430+, PF6432+, PF6434+, PF6438+, PF6443+, PF6463+, PF6464-, PF6469-, PF6470-, PF6477-, PF6479-, PF6494+, PF6495+, PF6498+, PF6500+, PF6506+, PF6507+, PF6509+, PF6520-, PF6524+, PF6610-, PF6714-, PF7562-, PF7589-, PF7600-, S1026-, S1051-, S11493-, S11601-, S12025-, S1567-, S16264-, S1688-, S18632-, S18827-, s3+, S6317-, S7721-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152+, U152+, U198-, V168+, V186+, V189+, V205+, V241+, V250+, V52+, V88-, V9+, Y5058-, YSC0000075+, YSC0000082+, YSC0000186+, YSC0000191+, YSC0000207-, YSC0000224+, YSC0000225+, YSC0000269+, YSC0000288+, Z156-, Z16500-, Z17-, Z17300-, Z18-, Z1862-, Z195-, Z198-, Z209-, Z2103-, Z2109-, Z225-, Z251 *, Z253-, Z2542-, Z255-, Z2573-, Z295-, Z296-, Z3000-, Z301-, Z302-, Z326-, Z36-, Z367-, Z381-, Z49-, Z8-, Z8052-, Z9-

[gotten]

Thanks for finding that. Is there a way I can view more details about this individual e.g. country of origin for his MDKA?

If possible, contact him through the Big-Y matches screen to get his last name / country of origin.



Is this some sort of a mistake as I thought you could only have one SNP from each "level" of the tree?


Since you match the BY3506 SNP of the 80805 kit, you should be positive for all SNPs in this block (http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1126&star=false) and upstream unless you had a backmutation. The exact time order of the SNPs in each block is unconstrained and therefore the SNPs are shown as equivalent in a single block. Future Full Genome tests may break up these blocks by forming new subbranches that fork off at some SNP.

[DillonResearcher]

Thanks for that advice.

I've had a look to see if I am positive for all the SNPs in that block but there are quite a few which don't feature in my results: 9504913-CT-C, 15078369-A-G, BY1273, 21239359, BY1785, BY1814 and 23649202.

One thing I still don't understand though is why FTDNA chose to give me the haplogroup BY3506 when I tested positive for BY3496 on the same level of the tree?

[gotten]

One thing I still don't understand though is why FTDNA chose to give me the haplogroup BY3506 when I tested positive for BY3496 on the same level of the tree?

Seems that somehow FTDNA decided to split those SNPs into two separate branches in FTDNA's Ytree. L135 also is a separate branch in FTDNA's Ytree.
I tend to trust Alex's tree a lot more than FTDNA's. FTDNA's tree remains shaky even after the recent updates.
Your 'terminal' SNP was chosen by some software algorithm and only FTDNA's IT would know why one takes precedence over the other.

Let Alex take a look at your results and you should get even more insight into your 'shared' and 'private' SNPs.

[DillonResearcher]

Thank you, I think I've got my head around that now!

[Litz]

Hi Dillon, I got my FTDNA U152/L2 SNP pack results back yesterday and I am now R-BY3506. It seems there are about 8 of us now (3 of the 8 are Lutzingers/Litzingers related to me). Our Y-DNA line was around the Koblenz, Germany area from 1200s-1700s. Somewhat close to the other two testers from Luxembourg.

When I looked it up, I found the date of 1200BC for the BY3506 mutation. Where did you find the 500BC date for it?

[DillonResearcher]

Hi Litz,

Thank you for the message it's great to have another BY3506+ tester on here. I saw your test on the U152 project but missed your post until now as I had been on holiday.

The 500BC date is from YFull with YFull (based on Big Y data) (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-BY3506/) estimating BY3506 to be dated 2500 ybp (years before the present). Dr McDonald has also recently released his own age estimate for BY3506 (http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/genetics/p312/table.html) of 698 BC (in a range of 1468 BC — 32 BC).

Have you considered doing a Big Y test yourself? Big Y tests give far more information than SNP packs, they allow new SNPs and branches to be discovered and for more accurate age estimates. Alex Williamson complies a mutation based tree from Big Y data and you can see the tree for our part of the tree here: http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=1126&star=false. The Big Y test is quite expensive but you could chose one Lutzingers as a proxy to do the Big Y test on behalf of the other three Lutzingers/Litzingers since although more Big Y tests would reveal more information a single Big Y would show how your Lutzingers/Litzingers fit in to the BY3506 tree and if you split the cost between four it wouldn't be too expensive.

I'll PM you with my email address.