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ancestryfan1994
05-08-2016, 05:33 PM
This thread is intended for the discussion of Persian/Iranian anthropology and genetic discussions, mainly as a way for us to discuss what we have found from academic studies into Iranian genetics (hardly any unfortunately), and also our own personal families ancestral genetic findings, and see how it correlates with what we know about past and present day Iran and its ethnic demographics. And also a way to discuss and debate historical events that shaped Iran's past and future, as well as posting different aspects of Persian/Iranian culture.

Ill start by referencing an online book I found which explains the relatively recent Armenian expansion into Abadan in the 1930's to 50's. Whats interesting is Armenians are known for mainly being in a tight knit communities of Iran, and Abadan (my parents home town), certainly isn't one of them, yet there seems to be a presence of Armenians in the area that appear to be relatively recent.

https://books.google.com/books?id=3SapTk5iGDkC&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=armenians+in+abadan&source=bl&ots=8tZFe0Va-r&sig=2t-lUGlF7NBdAvAmLi65n47J-dk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjV9aeP-8rMAhUDlh4KHQwqAvEQ6AEIOzAE#v=onepage&q=armenians%20in%20abadan&f=false

I most likely can't connect this certain event to my own Armenian connections as I'm fairly confident that non of my first grandparents are Armenian, so its probably a bit further back, however its interesting to note just how much of an appeal the oil refineries had on Iranians of all ethnic origins who would travel from across the country to get jobs. My own family are a product of this, many of them originally came from the nearby Bushehr provinces before landing in Abadan.

Demographic statistics in Iran are something that probably wasn't taken as seriously until quite recently, as I'm sure there has been contact and movement with other nations and ethnic groups that have never been documented thoroughly. Though i will be unearthing a few of these from the extremely helpful "iranica" encyclopedia and posting them here in due time.

ancestryfan1994
05-08-2016, 07:09 PM
While on the subject of undocumented contact with other nations/ethnic groups, I want to delve a bit into the interesting and fairly unknown Dutch influence in recent Iranian history. What sparked my interest in this was the fact that there seems to be some distant dutch connections in our family based on the fact that we have a fair amount of dutch cousins, and i wanted to see whether there was any historical information to make sense of how they came to be. The iranica encyclopedia has a very informative section which details the early contact between the Dutch and Persians, mainly by way of trade which makes sense in my families case as they were merchants. However a very interesting development was that aside from commercial relations, art became a huge point of contact between the dutch and persians, as cited from the iranica site below.


Apart from commercial relations, the main point of contact between Persia and the Netherlands in the 17th century was art. Especially in the forty-five years after 1029/1620 a number of Dutch painters were active in Persia, though their possible influence on Persian painting has not yet been studied. From available sources it is clear that Dutch artists were employed by the shahs and members of the Persian political and commercial elite. For example, Jan van Hasselt, who lived in Isfahan from 1029/1620 to 1038/1628, was appointed court artist and executed paintings for Shah ʿAbbās’ palace at Ašrāf in Māzandarān (see BEHŠAHR). When he returned home the shah appointed him his political agent in the Netherlands.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/dutch-persian-relations

Its common notion that Iranian culture like paintings etc, have been traditionally influenced by the obvious culprits like Persian, Turks, Arabs and so on, but the Dutch being another possible influence in Persian art is vert interesting, and serves as a point of reference to my claim that there is much more we don't know about past population movement and contact, especially in Iran.

ancestryfan1994
05-09-2016, 03:59 PM
The exodus of zoroastrians from islamic Persia hundreds of years ago still remains a significant event in recent Persian history. I think that its something that Iranians should be grateful to the indians for, as they allowed the preservation of this religion to survive in their own country. Its probably one of the best examples of two different peoples putting aside religious differences for the sake of moral freedom and the right to practice faith without fear of prosecution. Here is an extract detailing the beginnings of the exodus.


The Qeṣṣa is, however, important as an indicator of the Parsis’ own perception of their settlement in India. The account of the exodus begins by describing how a group of devout Zoroastrians in Persia went into hiding in the mountains during a time of fierce Islamic persecution. After a hundred years they moved on to Hormuz, but still remained under threat of oppression. “At last a wise dastur, who was also an astrologer, read the stars and said: 'The time Fate had allotted us in this place is now coming to an end, we must go at once to India.’” They sailed to Diu in western India, where they settled for nineteen years: “[t]hen a priest-astrologer, after reading the stars, said to them: 'Our destiny lies elsewhere, we must leave Diu and seek another place of refuge.’” But a storm came while they were at sea, endangering their lives, so they prayed “O Almighty God! Help us to get out of this danger. O Victorious Bahrām! Come to our aid” and they vowed to consecrate a Bahrām fire if they arrived safely in India. “Their prayers were heard; the victorious fire of Bahrām abated the storm,” so they arrived safely in India (Qeṣṣa, tr., pp. 49-50). There they sought permission to settle from the local ruler, Jadi Rana. He asked for an account of their religion and laid down four pre-conditions before agreeing to grant them sanctuary: They should use only the local language, the women should adopt the local dress, they must put down their weapons and vow never to use them and, finally, their marriage ceremonies should be conducted only in the evening; the dastur agreed. In his account of their religion he emphasized the features that accorded with Hinduism, for instance, reverence for the sun and the moon, fire and water, and the cow. He also stressed that their women observed strict purity laws. In short, the settlement in India was written in the stars, their safe arrival was due to divine aid, and they were not asked to forsake any significant aspects of their religion; indeed Zoroastrianism shared much in common with that of the Hindus. Oral tradition relates that Jadi Rana felt apprehensive about granting sanctuary to people of such warrior-like appearance, but the priests convinced the king that they would be 'like sugar in a full cup of milk, adding sweetness but not causing it to overflow’ (a variant relates the placing of a gold ring in the cup of milk; see Axelrod). Tradition states that the Parsi affirmations of their religion were delivered in sixteen statements (Skt. ṡlokas; though the oldest manuscripts date from the 17th century; Qeṣṣa, tr., pp. 60-80). They emphasized the points where their religion was consistent with Hindu tradition, but some details do not reflect Hindu practice; for example, there was no reason why weddings should be held at night. It has, therefore, been plausibly argued (Eduljee, 1995, pp. 60-70) that these traditions seek to explain why certain Parsi practices have evolved by imbuing them with an aura of historical legitimacy and authority, harking back to the covenant reached with the Hindu ruler when they first settled in India.

Taken from the iranica encyclopedia.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/parsi-communities-i-early-history

It would be really interesting to see some genetic profiles of Parsi people, i wonder how much ethnic Persian ancestry was retained from the time they migrated, and how much south asian ancestry they absorbed after hundreds of years in India. A recent article I read stated that the Parsi community are finding it hard to marry within their own culture and have resorted to looking outside the gene pool. I think that may have been something that occurred even before now, but I'm still intrigued to see what their genome looks like. If anybody has some, please feel free to post them here.

jesus
05-09-2016, 10:47 PM
Paris are around anything around 65-85% Iranian from what Ive seen. They just have higher South Indian.

ancestryfan1994
05-09-2016, 11:07 PM
Paris are around anything around 65-85% Iranian from what Ive seen. They just have higher South Indian.

Which is an indicator that they interbred with local indians probably?

vatan
05-10-2016, 01:11 AM
The exodus of zoroastrians from islamic Persia hundreds of years ago still remains a significant event in recent Persian history. I think that its something that Iranians should be grateful to the indians for, as they allowed the preservation of this religion to survive in their own country. Its probably one of the best examples of two different peoples putting aside religious differences for the sake of moral freedom and the right to practice faith without fear of prosecution. Here is an extract detailing the beginnings of the exodus.



Taken from the iranica encyclopedia.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/parsi-communities-i-early-history

It would be really interesting to see some genetic profiles of Parsi people, i wonder how much ethnic Persian ancestry was retained from the time they migrated, and how much south asian ancestry they absorbed after hundreds of years in India. A recent article I read stated that the Parsi community are finding it hard to marry within their own culture and have resorted to looking outside the gene pool. I think that may have been something that occurred even before now, but I'm still intrigued to see what their genome looks like. If anybody has some, please feel free to post them here.


They're not that different from us, but i believe they are maternally gujarati.

ancestryfan1994
05-10-2016, 01:19 AM
They're not that different from us, but i believe they are maternally gujarati.


I also find it hard to believe they don't have any recent south asian ancestry just going by some of their looks. Not all of them, but theres a fair amount that i would say are evidently admixed. Freddy mercury for example, is highly unlikely to be one, but then his parents looked pretty admixed. Who knows.

vatan
05-10-2016, 01:23 AM
I also find it hard to believe they don't have any recent south asian ancestry just going by some of their looks. Not all of them, but theres a fair amount that i would say are evidently admixed. Freddy mercury for example, is highly unlikely to be one, but then his parents looked pretty admixed. Who knows.

Oh they do. More than the average Iranian of course.

ancestryfan1994
05-11-2016, 04:27 PM
The kingdom of Pontus

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/PonticKingdom.png

An interesting concept, a kingdom that was built on the idea that both Persian and Greek culture/people would form one unified state. The empire was basically made up of Kings of mixed Greek and Persian ancestry, the population is said to have experienced close ties with one another and engaged in regular mixing/intermarriage with one another. While both Greeks and Persians go way back, I think this is probably the most intimate relationship we've had with one another in all the time that both peoples have known one another, alongside Alexander the greats fondness for the Persians.


http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/pontus

The last king of pontus, Mithradates.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Mithridates_VI_Louvre.jpg


He captured the essence of what the empire was basically made up of, as detailed in the following excerpt from iranica


Mithradates’ ancestors may well have been an offshoot of the Achaemenid royal family (Bosworth and Wheatley, 1998). They were certainly Iranian nobility who took part in the Persian colonization of Asia Minor, and in the 5th and 4th centuries BCE ran a fiefdom on the shore of the Propontis (the Sea of Marmara) and western end of the south coast of the Black Sea. Shortly before 300 BCE the family became involved in intrigues at the court of Antigonos and they were forced to flee further east into Paphlagonia, where, accompanied by six knights in a manner surely meant to recall the circumstances in which Darius became king of Persia, Mithradates I Ktistes founded what came to be known as the kingdom of Pontus and the line of Pontic kings (Diod. 20.111.4). Greek-style diplomacy, including a consistent policy of intermarriage with the Seleucids, established the kingdom’s Hellenistic credentials, but there was no attempt to hide the family’s Iranian origins: indeed it was precisely the mixture of Greek and Persian background that Mithradates Eupator later publicized, when he claimed (with some justification) to be descended from Cyrus and Darius, and (less convincingly) from Alexander the Great and Seleukos (Justin, Epit. 38.8.1). Stories of his birth and early life—comets, lightning, riding a dangerous horse, retreat to the wilderness for seven years—reflect this mixed Persian and Macedonian lineage (McGing, 1986, pp. 43-46).


The kingdom was very short-lived, but still a very interesting concept nonetheless.

parasar
05-11-2016, 05:50 PM
The exodus of zoroastrians from islamic Persia hundreds of years ago still remains a significant event in recent Persian history. I think that its something that Iranians should be grateful to the indians for, as they allowed the preservation of this religion to survive in their own country. Its probably one of the best examples of two different peoples putting aside religious differences for the sake of moral freedom and the right to practice faith without fear of prosecution. Here is an extract detailing the beginnings of the exodus ...

Besides the Arab period and later Parsi migrants to India, there remains another deep connection between Zoroastrians and Sakaldwipi Brahmans of eastern India. I had mentioned on another thread that there was a remote connection of Zarathustra to the Usigs (mentioned in the Gathas).

"Ahunavaiti 1 [Y 29] reflects a time of strife of political and military conflict, where tribes of pastoralists raided one another's herds of cattle. These activities were accompanied by sacrifice requiring slaughter of cattle. In this atmosphere of violence and insecurity, the soul of the cow, representing all good living creation, complains to the Divinity and asks for protection.... There are three non-theological terms-which appear in several of the Gathic verses, they are Kavi, Karpan, and Usig. They are all used in a pejorative sense. In Gathic vocabulary, Kavi meant a chief of a tribe, or a prince, a ruler and military chief of the socio-political organization among the Indo-Iranians. Karpan meant a mumbling priest, a priest whose function was to utter sacred words, usually not comprehensible to the laity, which were supposed to have magical effects in promoting the interest of the rulers. Usig was probably the ritual performing priest who prepared and executed the sacrifice and offerings." http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/gathas_the_hymns_of_zarathushtra.htm

These Usigs occupied the same regions of India - Magadh - that the Sakaldwipis occupy today.

Some practices of these Sakaldwipis are similar to but not the same as Zoroastrians. Zarathustra ~ Jarasabda (cf. Jarasandha) https://books.google.com/books?id=EZOu04e1bNQC&pg=PA488

They are famed for astronomy and astrology. In fact the writer/astronomer/geographer Varahamihira was likely one of them as he is referred to as Magadha-dvija. https://books.google.com/books?id=7VR8iriWmzUC&pg=PA758

DMXX
05-13-2016, 11:57 PM
Indeed; after accounting for the inevitable founder effects and introgression of local lines, very broadly speaking, Gujarati Parsis are chiefly Iranian paternally and Subcontinental maternally.

I spoke to an Iranian Zoroastrian some years ago who was more familiar with Parsi history who informed me that interpretation of the genetic data coincided with the early social practices of the Medieval Zoroastrian immigrants. Of course, anecdotes lie at the bottom of the hierarchy of evidence. Would be interesting to see some primary sources regarding this.

DMXX
05-16-2016, 03:49 PM
[ADMIN] The tangent regarding the implications on social dynamics after Islam's rise following the Byzantine-Sassanid fall can be found here (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7224-Split-Post-Islam-Demographic-Changes-in-Asia).

ancestryfan1994
07-09-2016, 09:26 PM
I think we have found sufficient evidence to conclude that there is some Iberian like ancestry in the family, or at least some sort of link to Iberia/Hispanic america. With my fathers genome phasing with ours in 23andme, one interesting development which occurred, was my brother picking up some Iberian segments. This most likely correlates with why we share so many segments with hispanic people, and to a lesser extent, Iberians from Spain and Portugal. At first it became a possibility that the high sharing with hispanic people could be via shared Lebanese ancestry, however none of our hispanic relatives have any middle eastern ancestry, with some of them even posting family trees going back to the early 1800s, all were of Spanish names, no signs of middle eastern ancestry in their admixture results, or paper trails. So that became pretty evident to not be the smoking gun, I think this provides a very realistic and interesting conclusion. The signals have become too frequent now to simply shelf as coincidence.

ancestryfan1994
07-22-2016, 05:34 PM
Iranica has a very detailed section based on the presence of Zoroastrianism in Iran from the last couple hundred years.

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/Zoroastrians-in-Iran-04


In the mid 19th century, a few Zoroastrians began settling in Tehran to take advantage of new commercial opportunities. They also were eager to escape the prejudice and persecution suffered by Zoroastrians in the southern provinces of Yazd and Kerman. However, travel was difficult and precarious, and the early numbers of migrants were small. The Gazette estimates that there were 450 Zoroastrians in Tehran in 1877 (Ruz-nāma-ye Irān, no. 318, 9 Rabiʿ II 1294, p. 6, apud Kondo, p. 20).

A building survey carried out in 1899-1900 indicates that there were forty-five Zoroastrian homeowners in Tehran concentrated in two districts. In the Grand Bazaar, there were a Zoroastrian caravansary, used as a small bazaar and rest house, and a Zoroastrian commercial district in the districts of Aḵtar Taʾin va Sab Sangilaj (Kondo, pp. 20-21). A number of Zoroastrians worked as gardeners in northern Tehran (Ošidari, apud Kestenberg Amighi, p. 143).

The above is just the introduction, I encourage anybody who has interest in the religion to read the whole thing as it includes some very in depth information.

ancestryfan1994
07-22-2016, 05:40 PM
The Persian community in Britain

The article below pretty much nails the demographic details regarding the Iranians who migrated to the UK, my family being part of the first wave of the mass exodus of Iranians to flee the revolution/war, I can attest to the accuracy of the information provided.


Persian emigration to Britain began in the 1950s and consisted mainly of students holding temporary visas from middle to upper class families who were sent overseas for higher education. The majority of Persians living in Britain left Persia due to the events surrounding the Revolution of 1978-1979 and its aftermath. The 1981 population census found a total of 28,617 Persians who were born in Persia living in Britain, with 18,132 males and 10,485 females living in London and 3,295 males and 2,683 females living outside of London (OPCS/GRO(S), 1983). Between 1979 and 1984, an estimated 8,000 Persians arrived in Britain, generating the largest percentage of asylum seekers in the country. The 1991 census indicated that there were 32,262 Persians who were born in Persia who were resident in Britain, 16,856 of whom were living in inner and outer London. The figures listed above do not include the children born to Persian parents, nor those whose immigration status is unclear. The 1991 census, which was the first to include a question on ethnic groups, classified Persians in the Other-Other ethnic category, a residual category made up of 290,000 people (0.5 per cent of the population in Britain) from a number of ethnic groups. Persians cannot be independently distinguished in the census classification, but with the North Africans and Arabs they make up 22.5 per cent (58,720) of the Other-Other category (OPCS/GRO(s), 1993). According to the Persian consulate in London there are approximately 75,000 Persians living in Britain, half of whom live in the London area. They also reported that around 35,000 Persians are registered at the consulate (Interview, Iranian consulate, 12 December, 1999).

The 1979 Revolution and the waves of migration. Persians living in Britain are from a range of political, socio-economic, religious and ethnic backgrounds. In order to shed light on the settlement experience of this heterogeneous group, it is necessary to refer briefly to the relationship between the series of power struggles leading up to the establishment of the Islamic Republic and the waves of Persians who came to Britain. The first movement of Persians arrived around the time Moḥammed Reżā Shah was overthrown in February 1979, and consisted mainly of families who had benefited from the socio-economic developments of the Pahlavi era and their political positioning at that time. Many were already fluent in English and familiar with the London lifestyle and reside in affluent boroughs of London, such as Kensington and Chelsea, Knightsbridge, Richmond, Hampstead, Swiss Cottage and the City of Westminster.


http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/great-britain-xii1

ancestryfan1994
07-24-2016, 01:29 PM
The Egyptian influence on the Persians



According to the building inscription of Darius I from Susa, Egyptian architects and workmen took part in the building of Darius’ palace at Persepolis and worked the gold from Sardis and Bactria (DSf 35-37, 49-51 [Kent, Old Persian, p. 143]). The famous headless statue of Darius found at Susa, which is clearly Egyptian in style, should not be considered a “Persian” statue, though (Kervran et al.; Stronach; Porada, pp. 816-18; Calmeyer, p. 296 with a synoptic summary of Egyptian and Persian elements on the statue). Rather, it is a product of Egyptian workmanship which was imported into Persia (Helck, p. 867 n. 13). The wording of the Old Persian inscription on the statue’s base leaves no doubt that the order for its making had been given by Darius (to Egyptian artists) while he was in Egypt (for the possible time of Darius’ stay in Egypt see Hinz and contra Tuplin, pp. 247-56; Calmeyer, p. 286 Anm. 1).

The statue which is mentioned in the text above, is found below.

10598

Another very interesting Egyptian influence on the Persians might have also came in the form of the Avesta calendar.


it is highly probable that the Later Avestan calendar, which might have been introduced on 27 March 503 B.C.E., is based on the much older Egyptian calendar, in use by the beginning of the third millennium. Both calendar systems operate within an invariable year of 365 days subdivided into twelve months of thirty days, plus five epagomenal days at the end of the year. Moreover, the first month of the Later Avestan calendar (Farvardīn) coincided at all times with the fourth month of the Egyptian calendar (Khoyak). Thus, the close connection between the two calendar systems seems firmly established (for a detailed discussion see Hartner, pp. 764-72).


http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/egypt-ii

Also the Temple of Hibis

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Darius_II_cartouche_at_Hibis_d1.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Hibis

The image below depicts Darius of Persia, as the pharaoh of Egypt.
10599

ancestryfan1994
07-26-2016, 10:49 AM
Ive recently decided to come back to the specific case regarding possible Iberian connections, due to interesting developments which have occurred in the last 5 months or so making it almost impossible to ignore. First off, by testing my father, and in return phasing his genome with ours in 23andme, one of my brothers scored some Iberian. Given that 23andme has a very good Iberian calculator, and that this happened AFTER phasing, tells me that its very much real, and basically verifies the previous findings that there is some sort of Iberian connection in my family. The other development came after ancestryDNA decided to update their matching algorithm, to date, i count 3 Mexican cousins that showed up after this update, and one or two disappeared due to not meeting the threshold. So this Mexican signal is now persistently showing up across 23andme, GEDmatch, and now AncestryDNA. One of these Mexicans in Ancestrydna have their family tree up going back to around 200-300 years, and all the names are Spanish, no sign of middle eastern ancestry in their trees or genetic results. The middle eastern populations moved to those parts fairly recently, which makes me think that any ME ancestry in Mexicans would be easily found among them if they have any. The final interesting development was when i was checking to see the origins of some segments shared between myself and Mexicans in GEDmatch, out of the random bunch i checked, 3-4 happened to be amerindian segments we shared i.e. we matched on amerindian segments.

Now GEDmatch happens to be my least confident one of the latest developments, because everybody matches and scores whatever they wish for on there. But when you put all of these individual genetic clues together, its clearly evident that something is going on here, the question is, there's definitely some Iberian/latin like connection in my family, but how it got there is a toss up between two possibilities, Iberia itself, or Mexico. If all of the above are valid, then one would say that the genetic results point to a more likely Mexican source, but a more realistic option would be Iberian, however, neither, especially a Mexican origin, have any historic backing. In fact, an Iranian having Mexican connections sounds absurd, buts its what we are possibly looking at here. Another thing to take note is that the Iberian signals alone in terms of cousins seem to be from both Spain and Portugal. I highly doubt that both entered the frame at separate times individually in my family. They must have come from a single source. The genetic signals would then conclude that its highly likely that this is a Mexican source we're seeing here, in which case if it is, I'm at a loss to explain how it came to be, one possibility may be that this is connected to my possible (not verified) filipino ancestry.

A more simple way of looking at this is..

If GEDmatch is to be believed = likely to be mexican.

If GEDmatch is false = all evidence points to shared Iberian ancestry which brings these cousins up.

ancestryfan1994
09-02-2016, 11:27 PM
As a huge fan of the food travel shows hosted by Bourdain and Andrew zimmern, it was nice to see Bourdain finally visit Iran. I think this video displays the youth culture of Iran very well, you will also notice words like "contradicting" and "confusing" thrown around. Both i think, describe the Iran of today. But more importantly it reminds me of the great and unknown culinary heritage of Iran. Video is somewhat distorted, due to the screen reducing in size, but its good enough.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Atbx5wxBHOY

ancestryfan1994
11-27-2016, 04:44 PM
The Ossetians have been a topic of intrigue for me recently, as there seems to be a decent amount of historical, cultural and genetic(?) similarities between them and Iranians. Ive found a few bits of information here and there that have interested me, but they seem a bit outdated, so if anybody has more recently studied information that refutes these ones, then feel free to post them.

A recent summary of the Ossetians from wikipedia.


In recent history, the Ossetians participated in Ossetian-Ingush conflict (1991–1992) and Georgian–Ossetian conflicts (1918–1920, early 1990s) and in the 2008 South Ossetia war between Georgia and Russia.

Key events:

1774 — The Iranian Afsharid Dynasty starts to disintegrate. (The scientific evidence points to their descendants being to some degree integrated into modern day Ossetian Islamic minorities). North Ossetia becomes part of the Russian Empire.[19]
1801 — Following the Treaty of Georgievsk and the abjuring of Georgia from Persian suzerainty, the modern-day South Ossetia territory becomes part of the Russian Empire, along with Georgia.[20]
1922 — Ossetia is divided[21][22] into two parts: North Ossetia remains a part of Russian SFSR, South Ossetia remains a part of Georgian SSR.
20 September 1990 – independent Republic of South Ossetia. The republic remained unrecognized, yet it detached itself from Georgia de facto. In the last years of the Soviet Union, ethnic tensions between Ossetians and Georgians in Georgia's former Autonomous Oblast of South Ossetia (abolished in 1990) and between Ossetians and the Ingush in North Ossetia evolved into violent clashes that left several hundreds dead and wounded and created a large tide of refugees on both sides of the border.[23][24]

A brief summary of Ossetian genetics via wikipedia


The Ossetians are a unique ethnic group of the Caucasus, speaking an Indo-European language surrounded by Caucasian ethnolinguistic groups. The Y-haplogroup data indicate that North Ossetians are more similar to other North Caucasian groups, and South Ossetians are more similar to other South Caucasian groups, than to each other. Also, with respect to mtDNA, Ossetians are significantly more similar to Iranian groups than to Caucasian groups. It is thus suggested that there is a common origin of Ossetians from Iran, followed by subsequent male-mediated migrations from their Caucasian neighbours.[35] Their genetic make-up is relatively heterogeneous as a result of extensive intermarriage with other ethnic groups in the region. In the Medieval, Imperial Russian, Soviet and contemporary periods it has been and is common to find Christian Orthodox Ossetian intermarriage with Georgians, Russians, Armenians, and Pontic Greeks, and Muslim Ossetian intermarriage with Meskhetian Turks, Kabardays, Ingushes, Chechens, and other Muslim communities of especially the North Caucasus.


A pretty old genetic study of their haplogroups


Ivan Nasidze, D. Quinque, I. Dupanloup, S. Rychkov, O. Naumova, O. Zhukova, and Mark Stoneking. "Genetic evidence concerning the origins of South and North Ossetians." Annals of Human Genetics (November 2004) 68 (Part 6): pages 588-599. (mirror) As the article's title indicates, they used data from both South Ossetians and North Ossetians. They studied the mtDNA and Y-DNA of 70 people from 3 previously unstudied North Ossetian populations and combined that data with previously published data about other North Ossetian and South Ossetian populations. (The previously published data came from the articles "Deep common ancestry of Indian and western-Eurasian mitochondrial DNA lineages", "Haplotypes from the Caucasus, Turkey and Iran for nine Y-STR loci", "Mitochondrial DNA and Y-Chromosome Variation in the Caucasus", and "The Eurasian heartland: a continental perspective on Y-chromosome diversity".)

Excerpts from the "Results" section, "MtDNA HVI Sequence Variability" subsection:
"Overall, Ossetians are more distant from the other Indo-European-speaking populations from the Caucasus (Armenians; average Fst = 0.030) than from Caucasian-speaking populations (average Fst = 0.026), although these values are not significantly different (t = 1.430, p = 0.212). However, Ossetians are significantly closer to Iranian-speaking populations from Isfahan and Tehran (average Fst = 0.019) than to Caucasianspeaking populations (average Fst = 0.027; t = -2.564, p = 0.026). The same trend holds when we compare haplotype sharing between Ossetian and Iranian populations versus Ossetians and their closest geographic neighbors from the Caucasus. South Ossetians share just 4% of their mtDNA sequences with Georgians, whereas they share 12% and 19% of their mtDNA sequences with Iranian-speaking groups from Isfahan and Tehran respectively. The haplotype sharing between North Ossetians and Iranian groups varies from 13% to 31%. With Ingushians, their closest eastern geographic neighbours, North Ossetians share from 22% to 33% of their mtDNA sequences. With Kabardinians, their closest western geographic neighbours, North Ossetians share 26% to 54% of their mtDNA sequences. This relatively high percentage of shared haplotypes between North Ossetians and their closest geographic neighbours can be explained by recent gene exchange among these groups."

If I'm reading this correctly, the Ossetians do have some maternal genetic ties to Iran, of course, todays peoples are probably a mishmash of multiple other ethnic groups that blended in with them since. An interesting ethnic group nonetheless.

Arame
01-11-2017, 08:36 AM
Hi
What archaelogical culture is usually linked with Kassites in Zagros?

ancestryfan1994
10-26-2017, 05:35 AM
Does anybody know what the genetic profile of the Armenian/Georgian populations of Iran are like? Have they absorbed any local admixture over the years or remained intact?