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DMXX
03-06-2013, 04:10 PM
Jean M posted about the different mutations for lactase persistence which are currently known. 13910T has been observed in Europe and other Eurasian populations (i.e. the Indian subcontinent) prompting a correlation with the distribution of Indo-European languages.

22018A is another mutation which seems to code for lactase persistence. To try and understand the distribution and origins of this mutation through this thread, current literature will be shared and discussed. Inferences/summaries are included below the studies cited. Jean has already stated elsewhere much of the conclusions of what is stated here, although it is useful to view the source material.

A study on genetic test of lactase persistence in relation to milk consumption in regional groups of India.
Baadkar SV, Mukherjee MS, Lele SS. Genet Test Mol Biomarkers. 2012 Dec;16(12):1413-8. doi: 10.1089/gtmb.2012.0191. Epub 2012 Oct 3.

... The two SNPs were present in a strong linkage disequilibrium. LP prevalence varied in these Indian regional groups. The LP frequency was highest for North Indians and lowest for Parsis (p=0.03 CC vs. CT+TT, p=0.008 GG vs. GA+AA). South Indians had a lower LP frequency compared to North Indians (p=0.07 for each SNP). The milk consumption pattern varied in these Indian subgroups, with the Gujaratis exhibiting the highest milk intake and Parsis the lowest (p=0.04).
CONCLUSION:
Our study indicates that the milk intake in Indians might be influenced by their dietary habits in addition to their ancestral history. An overall correlation, however, between milk consumption and LP genotypes was not observed.

13910T and 22018A are strongly linked with one another and the overall frequency of lactase persistence was higher in north India rather than the south. As the two were lumped together it isn't possible to tell whether one predominated over the other, but their "strong linkage disequilibrium" makes this a moot point.


Correlation of G/A -22018 single-nucleotide polymorphism with lactase activity and its usefulness in improving the diagnosis of adult-type hypolactasia among North Indian children.
Kuchay RA, Anwar M, Thapa BR, Mahmood A, Mahmood S. Genes Nutr. 2013 Jan;8(1):145-51. doi: 10.1007/s12263-012-0305-7. Epub 2012 Jul 5.

... There was a significant correlation between lactase activity and different genotypes of G/A -22018 SNP. Children with G/G -22018 genotype had low lactase activity. With a reference value of <10 U/g protein (lactase activity) to be indicative of AtH, the sensitivity and specificity of genetic test based on G/A -22018 SNP was 94.4 and 94.1 %, respectively. Furthermore, the consumption of milk was lower in children with G/G -22018 genotype. Flatulence was the only symptom significantly more frequent among the children with G/G -22018 genotype compared to those with G/A and A/A -22018 genotypes. However, most of the children with G/G -22018 genotype seem to tolerate small amounts of milk without any significant difference in gastrointestinal symptoms from those with G/A and A/A -22018 genotypes.

This paper also implies a connection between 13910T and 22018A, although it states 22018A is "strongly, but not completely" related to lactase persistence. North Indian children found to carry the A/C allele mutation on 22018 were, for all intents and purposes, lactose tolerant. Those who were homozygous for G/T had low lactase activity and reported flatulence compared to the other groups, although some still could "tolerate small amounts of milk". As a medical student I imagine this has something to do with intestinal gut flora converting the lactose themselves rather than the in-situ presence of lactase in the body.


Frequency of LCT -13910c/T And LCT - 22018 G/A Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms Associated with Adult-Type Hypolactasia /Lactase Persistence Among Israelis of Different Ethnic Groups.
Raz M, Sharon Y, Yerushalmi B, Birk R. Gene. 2013 Feb 12. pii: S0378-1119(13)00122-4. doi: 10.1016/j.gene.2013.01.049. [Epub ahead of print]

Primary lactase deficiency (PLD), the physiological decline of lactase, is associated with the LC-13910C/T and LCT-22018G/A polymorphisms. PLD is the most common phenotype in humans and varies widely as a function of ethnicity. Israel is a multiethnic country. We analyzed the genetic frequencies of PLD in different Israeli ethnicities. Ethnicity-related frequencies were analyzed in 439 Israelis: Ashkenazi (n=96), Iraqi-(n= 96) and Moroccan (n=96) Jews and Bedouin-Arabs (n=151). DNA was extracted from leukocytes; LCT-13910C/T , -22018G/A and -13915 T/G(in Bedouin-Arabs) polymorphisms were analyzed by PCR-restriction fragment length polymorphism analysis. There was a significant association between ethnicity and genotype in both polymorphic LCT SNPs (-13910C/T and -22018). Prevalence of the CC (LCT-13910C/T) genotype associated with adult hypolactasia was 97%, 93%, 83% and 82% among Bedouin-Arabs and Iraqi, Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews, respectively. The prevalence of the GG (LCT-22018G/A) adult hypolactasia genotype among those groups was identical to that of the CC genotype in each group, except for Iraqi-Jews, of which only 83% carried the GG genotype. The prevalence of heterozygous and homozygous genotypes associated with lactase persistence (CT , TT for -13910C/T and GA, AA for -22018G/A) were 3%, 7%, 17% and 18% and 3%, 17%, 17% and 18% for Bedouin-Arabs, Ashkenazi, Iraqi and Moroccan Jews, respectively. A significant correlation between SNPs was found. PLD prevalence is high among different ethnic groups in Israel and varies between ethnicities. The prevalence of the -13915*G allele, indicative of lactose persistence in African and Arab populations, was 41% in the Bedouin-Arabs group. Lactase persistence genotype prevalence was found to vary between Israeli ethnicities (4-18%). SNPs (-13910C/T and -22018) showed significant correlation in detecting genotype prevalence in Israeli Jews. We suggest adjusting nutritional recommendations accordingly.

Once more 13910T and 22018A are connected. These mutations were found in a small minority of Israeli populations (Bedouin Arab, Ashkenazi, Iraqi Jewish, Moroccan Jewish) on average ascending from 3% to 18% respectively for both alleles. This indicates Bedouin Arabs in Israel who are lactose tolerant are so due to different genes. 22018A has almost the exact same distributive range as 13910T in this part of the Middle-East, again solidifying the statement of "strong linkage disequilibrium" from the first study.

The -22018A allele matches the lactase persistence phenotype in northern Chinese populations.
Xu L, Sun H, Zhang X, Wang J, Sun D, Chen F, Bai J, Fu S. Scand J Gastroenterol. 2010;45(2):168-74. doi: 10.3109/00365520903414176.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
It has been reported that some single-nucleotide polymorphisms (-13910C/T, -22018G/A, -13907C/G, -13915T/G, and -14010G/C) within the lactase gene are associated with lactase persistence. In our previous study, we found that -13910C/T is not a good predictor of lactase persistence in Chinese populations. To obtain a better understanding of the mechanism of lactase persistence, we examined the frequencies in Northern China of the four other alleles that are associated with lactase persistence.
MATERIAL AND METHODS:
We evaluated the allele frequencies of -22018G/A, -13907C/G, -13915T/G, and -14010G/C in six northern Chinese populations (Manchu, Mongol, Hezhen, Oroqen, Kazak, and northern Han) using the methods of polymerase chain reaction-restriction fragment length polymorphism and resequencing.
RESULTS:
By genotyping 1092 chromosomes, we found that the frequency of the -22018A allele was highest in the Kazak population and extremely low in the northern Han population. Although there are little available data about the frequency of lactase persistence in northern Chinese populations, we compared the allele frequencies with the phenotype frequencies that have been published previously. We found that the frequency of the -22018A allele was basically consistent with the reported frequencies of lactase persistence in Northern China. With respect to the -13907C/G, -13915T/G, and -14010G/C polymorphisms, we found no individuals with the derived allele.
CONCLUSIONS:
The frequency of the -22018A allele differed significantly among the six populations and the frequency reflected the frequency of lactase persistence. Taking into consideration the results of previous studies, we believe that the origins of lactase persistence-associated alleles are different in different pastoral populations.

22018A is greatest in north China's Kazakh population and lowest in the Han, which, according to the study, perfectly compliments the reported occurrence of lactase persistence there. One intriguing comment came with regard to the 13910T mutation, which was found to "not [be] a good predictor of lactase persistence in Chinese populations". This is the first reported non-correlation between lactase persistence, 13910T and 22018A as a whole in any given population. It is tempting to speculate that demic events in north China resulted in 22018A (for what ever reason) being selected through the generations rather than 13910T.


It appears 22018A is the "sister" mutation to 13910T and has a very similar distribution and lactose tolerance pattern to it in the Near-East, the Indian Subcontinent and north China. It is reasonable to presume the point of origin was similar to 13910T's, wherever that may be.

AJL
03-07-2013, 01:08 AM
Is there an rs-number for the SNP (i.e. is it tested through 23andme)? If so it might be fun to see who is likely tolerant.

DMXX
03-07-2013, 08:00 AM
This is the main one - rs182549. See here (http://snpedia.com/index.php/Rs182549). The mutation is C->T, so those with any T alleles are going to be lactose tolerant.

AJL
03-08-2013, 12:51 AM
Thanks! Among the kits I manage:

AJL's grandfather (Near Eastern):
rs182549:CT
rs4988235:AG

AJL's mother (West Euro):
rs182549:TT
rs4988235:AA

AJL:
rs182549:CT
rs4988235:AG

I'm not sure what to make of that, other than that none of us is intolerant.

newtoboard
03-08-2013, 03:21 PM
I think 22018A predominates over 13910T in Asia and among Indo-Iranian speakers. Given lactose tolerance frequencies of 70-100% for South Asia (I believe Palisto posted the Pakistani studies on Molgen) and the lack of 13910T over frequencies of 30-40% this makes the most sense. Are there any independent mutations that originated in West Asia besides the ones found in Arabs?

DMXX
03-08-2013, 04:12 PM
I think 22018A predominates over 13910T in Asia and among Indo-Iranian speakers. Given lactose tolerance frequencies of 70-100% for South Asia (I believe Palisto posted the Pakistani studies on Molgen) and the lack of 13910T over frequencies of 30-40% this makes the most sense. Are there any independent mutations that originated in West Asia besides the ones found in Arabs?

Yes, I also saw Palisto's link. I am quite certain Iranians and Kurds also have similar rates of lactose tolerance with one another. Palisto posted on another thread here showing the majority of Kurds he is sharing with on 23andMe are homozygous CC (technically "intolerant") for 22018A.

All of this leads me to believe another lactase persistence gene is responsible for the Iranian and Kurdish consumption of milk. It probably also accounts for some of the lactose tolerance also seen in South Asia.

That being said, as you stated, it's quite possible 22018A has a greater standing in South Asia than 13910T, much is the case in north China.

(This post accompanies a 400ml mug of skimmed powdered milk tea.)

newtoboard
03-08-2013, 04:40 PM
So you think there is another mutation that is local to West/Central/South Asia?
What about 13910T in Iranians and Kurds?

Is there any reason why either 22018A seems to dominate 13910T in Asia? I'm just guessing it dominates given the lactose tolerance of South Asians to be similar to that of Western Europeans without the high frequencies of 13910T of Western Europeans.

That said I couldn't imagine a diet without dairy. Milk, ice cream, cheese, cream, yogurt consumption are an important part of most South Asian diets.

DMXX
03-09-2013, 12:14 AM
So you think there is another mutation that is local to West/Central/South Asia?
What about 13910T in Iranians and Kurds?

Is there any reason why either 22018A seems to dominate 13910T in Asia? I'm just guessing it dominates given the lactose tolerance of South Asians to be similar to that of Western Europeans without the high frequencies of 13910T of Western Europeans.

That said I couldn't imagine a diet without dairy. Milk, ice cream, cheese, cream, yogurt consumption are an important part of most South Asian diets.

13910T isn't very common among Iranians and Kurds I don't think. Palisto provided the information on that too IIRC.

An educated guess would be there must be another mutation local to West-Central Asia. How else could dairy products make up such a large amount of Iranian, Kurdish and from the sound of it South Asian diets? It surely cannot be a multi-societal refusal to admit a population-wide issue with flatulence over generations!

Jean M
03-12-2013, 11:09 PM
Here's an article of interest, mainly for its maps: Global Geography of Milk Consumption and Lactose (In)Tolerance


To North Americans and especially Europeans, both drinking and eating dairy products is very common, but this is far from the global norm, as can be seen in the map reposted on the left from FoodBeast.com. Nordic countries, such as Finland and Sweden, top the list of milk consumption per capita, with over 350 kg (770 lbs) of dairy per person per year. ... The highest ranking non-European country by dairy consumption is Kazakhstan, which ranks #13 with over 260 kg (573 lbs) of milk per capita. For centuries, Kazakhs were herders who raised fat-tailed sheep, Bactrian camels, and horses, relying on these animals for transportation, clothing, and food, in the form of both meat and dairy.

...As can be seen from some of these maps, in the U.S. the levels of lactose (in)tolerance differ by race, with Caucasians being most lactose tolerant, followed by Hispanics and African Americans; Native Americans are said to have the highest levels of lactose intolerance.


Source: http://geocurrents.info/cultural-geography/culinary-geography/global-geography-of-milk-consumption-and-lactose-intolerance

ADW_1981
03-20-2013, 03:07 AM
Here's an article of interest, mainly for its maps: Global Geography of Milk Consumption and Lactose (In)Tolerance





I'm also TT for rs182549 as well as AA on 13910T.

lgmayka
03-21-2013, 03:06 PM
That said I couldn't imagine a diet without dairy. Milk, ice cream, cheese, cream, yogurt consumption are an important part of most South Asian diets.
The issue is not dairy in general, but lactose in particular. Different dairy products have widely varying levels of lactose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#Dairy_products
---
Clarified butter, however, contains very little lactose and is safe for most lactose-intolerant people.
...
People can be more tolerant of traditionally made yogurt than milk, because it contains lactase produced by the bacterial cultures used to make the yogurt.
...
In addition, the aging methods of traditional cheeses (sometimes over two years) reduce their lactose content to practically nothing.
---

DMXX
03-21-2013, 05:43 PM
From the above and Wikipedia, the percentage of lactose in whey protein is slightly higher (~5%) than in bovine milk (~4.7%). I presumed there would be less lactose in whey protein than more compared to cow's milk for instance.

rms2
09-14-2013, 02:36 PM
13910T is also known as the SNP rs4988235. It can be found in one's FTDNA Family Finder data. The nucleotide results for rs4988235 are read from the complementary dna strand (dna is double stranded), however, so it is an "A" at rs4988235 that represents lactase persistence rather than a "T" as at 13910 (A is always opposite T on the dna strands; C is opposite G).

I have "AA" at rs4988235 and so am lactase persistent, which I already knew from experience.

I am also homozygous ("TT") at rs182549 or 22018A. Since I see an "A" in 22018A, it looks like the same sort of opposite strand reading is going on between rs182549 and 22018A as is done with rs4988235 and 13910T.

In each case, where the T indicates lactase persistence, a C indicates lactose intolerance, or at least the absence of lactase persistence; where an A indicates lactase persistence, a G indicates lactose intolerance or the absence of lactase persistence.

So, A and T are the LP nucleotides. C an G are the non-LP or lactose intolerant nucleotides.

Ignis90
03-07-2014, 01:34 PM
rs182549:TT
rs4988235:AA

I'm very non-Asian ancestry-wise.

newtoboard
03-07-2014, 02:05 PM
rs182549:TT
rs4988235:AA

I'm very non-Asian ancestry-wise.

Lactase Persistence exists in Asia?

BMG
03-09-2014, 05:52 AM
From my family finder data
rs182549:GG
rs4988235:CC
So I am supposed to be lactose intolerant But my daily diet includes curd , cream and curd based dishes and other milk/cream based sweets especially since both my sides of family comes from farmers . That said i dont really prefer milk but rather have it form of coffee ,tea or chocolate drinks .

rms2
03-09-2014, 02:29 PM
I think an adverse reaction would depend on the amount of lactose in the dishes and/or drinks you are consuming. Even lactose intolerant people can tolerate small amounts of lactose.

I have an African-American friend who is lactose intolerant but who loves drinking lattés. He told me they give him really bad gas but he puts up with it because he likes them so much (but I wonder how his wife likes the consequences).

soulblighter
03-09-2014, 02:35 PM
I am
RS182549: CC
RS4988235:GG

I go through a gallon of milk in 3 days and have a diet rich in milk. No issues whatsoever.
Yogurt/cheese are ok for those with lactose intolerance because the bacterial cultures remove it.

The issue is not dairy in general, but lactose in particular. *Different dairy products have widely varying levels of lactose.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#Dairy_products
---
Clarified butter, however, contains very little lactose and is safe for most lactose-intolerant people.
...
People can be more tolerant of traditionally made yogurt than milk, because it contains lactase produced by the bacterial cultures used to make the yogurt.
...
*In addition, the aging methods of traditional cheeses (sometimes over two years) reduce their lactose content to practically nothing.
---


Coming from a strong dairy culture where "dugdham" or "ksheeram" (milk in Sanskrit) played a vital role in daily rituals and diet..... and the cow was revered and protected, I strongly doubt that I have 50+ generations of ancestors who were "gas giants" and had severe digestive issues with milk, but were foolish enough to stick to it....but you never know when it comes to beliefs!

rms2
03-09-2014, 02:55 PM
Perhaps you have one of the other LP variants.

soulblighter
03-10-2014, 11:49 PM
Perhaps you have one of the other LP variants.


oot, if My ancestors were truly lactose intolerant, i do think there is a good opportunity for an SNL like skit with a bunch of fat priests sitting around a sacred fire chanting hymns and making offerings to the sacred fire, all the while farting musically.
here is an example for a visual (scroll to 2 mins) without the farts :rofl:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s3l5kmm9EBI

DMXX
01-01-2015, 03:05 PM
I've had problems with cow's milk since I was a child and would frequently experience either gastrointestinal or allergy-resembling symptoms with it. Some of my doctors were very quick to rush towards lactose intolerance as the cause despite the episodes happening since I was a baby and there's some sort of allergic component to it.

The pieces have slowly been falling into place the past few years (noticed I'm problematic with fresh cow's milk only; not whey, or even powdered/evaporated skimmed cow's milk). Had a blood test done recently confirming I'm not allergic to cow's milk protein (casein). That left either the fat or the lactose as the main culprit. I don't carry any of these LP mutations despite clearly tolerating lactose and I come from a family of fresh cow's milk drinkers (younger brother used to consume a half gallon every day). Muddying the picture further was a diagnosis of mild IBS recently.

I've just completed a "non-lab" lactose tolerance test by completely fasting overnight and drank 16 ounces (~450ml) of 1% fat fresh cow's milk this morning. The window of lactose intolerance symptoms has passed without a single symptom. Looks like I have some sort of milk fat allergy/intolerance instead. This makes sense, because I absolutely can't tolerate dessert treats from fast food venues any more.

Now the phenotype of lactose tolerance is established, I'm still left wondering what other mutations have conferred this to my family. Is anyone aware of any new studies into lactase persistence which has picked up new mutations?

kenji.aryan
01-03-2015, 06:52 PM
Acording to 23andme If you are GG then you are Lactose Intolerant and are not able to drink more than a glass of milk a day.





So according to 23andme I'm Lactose Tolerant.

apophis99942
01-04-2015, 03:03 AM
Hypolactasia without symptoms = regular milk consumption. Having the gene for lactase non-persistence is not deterrent enough to cause dairy aversion.

Estonian study : link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4087492/)

Palisto
02-25-2015, 12:46 AM
See my latest post about lactase persistence:
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.de/2015/02/lactose-intolerance-six-mcm6-variants.html

Please share your complete MCM6 data (from 23andme) with me and tell me if you can tolerate milk or not.

DMXX
02-25-2015, 01:33 AM
I can generally tolerate milk (varies with form and time). Full MCM6 genotype data below:



MCM6 136604210 rs4988262 C or T CC
MCM6 136606741 rs2082730 G or T TT
MCM6 136608466 rs4954492 A or C AA
MCM6 136608644 rs4988236 A or G GG
MCM6 136608646 rs4988235 A or G GG
MCM6 136608673 rs4988234 C or T CC
MCM6 136608747 rs4988233 A or G GG
MCM6 136609320 rs2304369 A or G GG
MCM6 136609671 rs4988232 A or G GG
MCM6 136610598 rs4988226 A or G AG
MCM6 136614255 rs309180 A or G AG
MCM6 136614813 rs309181 C or G CG
MCM6 136616323 rs4988203 C or T CC
MCM6 136616754 rs182549 C or T CC
MCM6 136621858 rs4988186 G or T GG
MCM6 136622216 rs309176 C or T CT
MCM6 136622543 rs3087343 G or T GT
MCM6 136623717 rs3087353 C or T CC
MCM6 136624947 rs1435577 C or G CG
MCM6 136626078 rs3769001 A or G AG
MCM6 136633771 rs191079 C or T no call
MCM6 136633962 rs1057031 A or G AG


[Edit]: Just figured I am a mix between your ht1+6. Reading into your entry regarding these now.

MfA
02-25-2015, 01:40 AM
See my latest post about lactase persistence:
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.de/2015/02/lactose-intolerance-six-mcm6-variants.html

Please share your complete MCM6 data (from 23andme) with me and tell me if you can tolerate milk or not.

ht6, no problem with milk.

DMXX
02-25-2015, 09:30 PM
Palisto, you made the following statement in your entry:



I suspect that lactase persistence is also present among a subgroup of ht6 and/or ht1.


I'm curious what evidence has pushed you to suspect this was the case?

Palisto
02-27-2015, 07:54 PM
Palisto, you made the following statement in your entry:



I'm curious what evidence has pushed you to suspect this was the case?

First of all, the number of individuals that I can look at is very limited.
But after researching a little bit more I came to the conclusion that at least a subgroup of ht6 (if not all of ht6) must be lactose tolerant. So far, all Kurds that carry at least one allele of ht6 do have lactase persistence. As a close neighbor it is not surprising that this observation fits to you, too.
I have one Kurdish individual with ht1/ht1 and lactose tolerance. However, for ht1 the picture is less clear suggesting that there are at least 2 subgroups of ht1.
ht4 seems to be intolerant towards lactose.

Unfortunately, I do not have 23andme data of the Bedouin type of lactose tolerance. So far, I believe that Bedouin type of lactose tolerance is close to ht1, ht4, ht5, or ht6 (but not to ht2, ht3 or ht7). If you know anyone that carries rs41380347 = AC or CC, then let me know.

DMXX
03-05-2015, 09:47 PM
First of all, the number of individuals that I can look at is very limited.
But after researching a little bit more I came to the conclusion that at least a subgroup of ht6 (if not all of ht6) must be lactose tolerant. So far, all Kurds that carry at least one allele of ht6 do have lactase persistence. As a close neighbor it is not surprising that this observation fits to you, too.
I have one Kurdish individual with ht1/ht1 and lactose tolerance. However, for ht1 the picture is less clear suggesting that there are at least 2 subgroups of ht1.
ht4 seems to be intolerant towards lactose.


I suppose this discussion is complicated by the lack of clarity on what "lactose tolerance" entails. A lot of people from regions of the world without known lactase persistence genes seem to do just fine with a bit of milk in their tea for instance.

It could be the case that, as per your phylogenetic chart, ht1 carriers are lactose tolerant, just not to the same extent as ht2/3. Or, as you've suggested, there is internal variation within these haplotypes (perhaps additional markers contribute to this diversity).

There's no way of quantifying this until a future paper has a study design that tests a dose-dependent response to varying administrations of lactose to people with different haplotypes. Great work nonetheless.

Varun R
06-18-2015, 12:50 AM
Also ht6 (but no call on last SNP); seem to be ok drinking moderate quantities of milk.

Juba
06-18-2015, 01:13 AM
I am homozygous for both of the ancestral alleles in rs182549 and rs4988235 (CC and GG respectively).
I drink a whole lot of milk every day though, since I was a toddler, and I never had an adverse effect from it. So I'm obviously lactase persistent, at least phenotypically.
I tried looking for the west African mutation, but FTDNA doesn't sequence it apparently.

Are there any others? I know there are, but I don't know where they're located.

Ignis90
06-18-2015, 12:46 PM
See my latest post about lactase persistence:
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.de/2015/02/lactose-intolerance-six-mcm6-variants.html

Please share your complete MCM6 data (from 23andme) with me and tell me if you can tolerate milk or not.


rs4988283 CC
rs4988262 CC
rs2082730 TT
rs4988243 TT
rs4954492 AA

rs41525747 GG
rs4988236 GG
rs4988235 AA ht3
rs41380347 AA
rs4988234 CC

rs4988233 GG
rs2304369 GG
rs4988232 GG
rs4988226 GG
rs309180 AA

rs309181 GG
rs3213871 CC
rs4988203 CC
rs182549 TT
rs4988199 AA

rs4988189 TT
rs4988186 GG
rs309176 CC
rs3087343 TT
rs4988177 TT

rs3087353 CC
rs2289049 GG
rs2070068 GG
rs1435577 CC
rs3769001 AA

rs1057031 no call


So ht3. I am lactose tolerant.

George
08-01-2015, 09:06 PM
Checked this out of curiosity:

My numbers== rs182549: CC
rs4988235: GG

No problems ever with milk drinking etc.. Just love the "straight from the cow's udder" unprocessed variety, when I can get it... Is there any other thing we should be looking at to explain lactose intolerance?

rms2
08-01-2015, 09:29 PM
Checked this out of curiosity:

My numbers== rs182549: CC
rs4988235: GG

No problems ever with milk drinking etc.. Just love the "straight from the cow's udder" unprocessed variety, when I can get it... Is there any other thing we should be looking at to explain lactose intolerance?

Given those alleles, you should be lactose intolerant. Maybe you have another of the LP variants?

lgmayka
08-01-2015, 09:39 PM
No problems ever with milk drinking etc.
Although listed as lactose-intolerant by 23andMe, I had no diffculty drinking milk until my 50th year, when I suddenly lost that ability. My brother is likewise listed as lactose-intolerant by 23andMe, but is still drinking milk at the age of 61.

George
08-02-2015, 01:02 AM
Given those alleles, you should be lactose intolerant. Maybe you have another of the LP variants?

Which rs should I check out?

Juba
08-02-2015, 07:21 AM
Checked this out of curiosity:

My numbers== rs182549: CC
rs4988235: GG

No problems ever with milk drinking etc.. Just love the "straight from the cow's udder" unprocessed variety, when I can get it... Is there any other thing we should be looking at to explain lactose intolerance?

Heh, same deal with me.
And it's not like I don't drink a lot of milk. I easily drank an average of 2.5 big glasses of milk per day during my lifetime, without of course having any problems with its digestion.

rms2
08-03-2015, 01:28 AM
Which rs should I check out?

Honestly, I'm not sure what the other variants are, although I know there are some others out there.

DMXX
08-03-2015, 12:18 PM
George, check out SNPedia for the other known lactase persistence risk variants.

I should note that, aside from the mutation discussed above, no other West Eurasian SNPs have been discovered yet, so don't be surprised if you're negative for the several shown on SNPedia (covers Africa, Arabia and Asia mostly).

kjjohnston
08-04-2015, 04:20 PM
It looks like there are many people of European descent who are predicted to be lactose intolerant (with the rs182549 CC) result who are able to ingest milk just fine. My sister is one of them. It would seem to me that this subset of the population should be tested further to see if there is another explanation. Maybe there is a no-call on one of these alleles and they should actually be CT. Maybe lactose intolerance is not as clear as we once thought. Maybe there is another nearby allele on the chromosome that is more important. Maybe there is another gene elsewhere. Maybe there is something else that is protective. Maybe they have non-European variants or a previously unreported gene that would be important in a minority of people. Perhaps people are symptomatic and they just don't know what is causing their milder-than-average gastrointestinal distress.

I wonder if there have been studies already done. For example what happens when you do a hydrogen breath test, a lactose tolerance test and extensive GWAS on this particular population of people who are predicted to be lactose intolerant who are actually tolerant? I am just throwing it out there to see if anyone has expertise in this area because I don't. It would seem to be a relatively easy (but costly) investigation to do. Maybe 23andMe is already looking into this issue but I think true lactose tolerance needs to be established in a clinical setting.

Kathy

Megalophias
08-04-2015, 04:59 PM
An acquaintance of mine lost her ability to digest milk suddenly in her twenties when she had her second child - who is also lactose intolerant. Her first child is lactose tolerant. Don't know what alleles they have (they are of northern European ancestry).

She semi-seriously blames her lactose intolerance on her second child. :D Who knows, she may be right.

DMXX
08-04-2015, 05:16 PM
There's something called secondary lactase deficiency, where your small intestine's ability to produce lactase is diminished by some sort of condition. This can range from biological causes (inflammatory bowel disease, coeliac disease, acute/chronic gastroenteritis) to "induced" (alcoholism, prolonged antibiotic use).

There is, of course, the possibility ageing itself leads to diminished lactase production, as some of our members have shared here (I doubt there was serious pathology going on as is the case with above). Much the same way collagen production slows down over time (unless there's some supplementation and years of resistance training), it makes sense that the same phenomenon is observed in older folks.

First I've heard of pregnancy causing lactose intolerance, though.

khanabadoshi
08-04-2015, 05:32 PM
The issue is not dairy in general, but lactose in particular. Different dairy products have widely varying levels of lactose.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#Dairy_products
---
Clarified butter, however, contains very little lactose and is safe for most lactose-intolerant people.
...
People can be more tolerant of traditionally made yogurt than milk, because it contains lactase produced by the bacterial cultures used to make the yogurt.
...
In addition, the aging methods of traditional cheeses (sometimes over two years) reduce their lactose content to practically nothing.
---

Most people in South Asia drink buffalo milk not cow milk; I have to imagine this has something to do with it.

I grew up in the US and drank ridiculous amounts of milk. Never had an issue, my mother sometimes did. When I moved to Pakistan for a few years, I drank buffalo milk; quite different in taste, much sweeter and it is usually unpasteurized. Upon returning to the US, I have a much lower tolerance for milk now. If I haven't drunk any milk for a while and decide to drink a glass, I will bloat, get nausesous, vomit the life out of me, and then not have an appetite for days. However, if I drink a little consistently, and build up the amount, then I am back to normal. I have no issue with cheeses or yogurt though.

Me:

rs182549 CT
rs4988235 AG

On a sidenote: I was taught during the course of my studies that Europeans have a high allergic response to Celery; unheard of in the US or Asia, Africa -- while the US has a high allergic response to Peanuts; unheard of in Europe, Asia, Africa.

They used to think it might be genetic, but all it takes to acquire the allergy is be born and live in that region for a while. Crazy isn't it?

EDIT: Human milk has a high lactose content, around 9%. Unprocessed cow milk is about 4.7% lactose. Unprocessed milk from other bovids contains a similar fraction of lactose (goat milk 4.7%,[36] buffalo 4.86%,[37] yak 4.93%,[38] sheep 4.6%)

So this helps explain the pregnancy issue of tolerance; but makes the buffalo vs. cow milk issue more convoluted. Perhaps, processed cow milk has less lactose?

khanabadoshi
08-04-2015, 05:52 PM
An acquaintance of mine lost her ability to digest milk suddenly in her twenties when she had her second child - who is also lactose intolerant. Her first child is lactose tolerant. Don't know what alleles they have (they are of northern European ancestry).

She semi-seriously blames her lactose intolerance on her second child. :D Who knows, she may be right.

Lactose tolerance IMPROVES with pregnancy; even in those who are intolerant. If a woman discovers she is "more" intolerant during pregnancy it is a sign she just didn't know the extent of her intolerance. This is because she was unlikely consuming much milk in her diet before (women notoriously do not drink much milk -- hence the huge osteoporosis risk in old age), with the sudden production of milk on her own (far more than she ever consumed in recent years), she felt the full effect of intolerance. With the birth of the baby, it is likely it got "worse" -- because tolerance decreases again after pregnancy. Most likely after she is done breast-feeding, and is no longer producing milk, she will return to her pre-pregnancy level of tolerance (which is actually the same tolerance level... minus the amount of milk in her body).

In case you are thinking, "but she isn't drinking her own milk" -- the lactiferous duct tree extends into the lymph nodes and circulates through the body via this system. (Now why/how that would result in a stronger response -- I don't know -- I imagine the body senses the presence of milk and is now tuned and "primed" to react accordingly to the first drop that finds it's way to the intestines; more knowledgeable people will probably correct this and undo my theory).

Generally speaking, lactose intolerance in the baby and in the adults is NOT related. You can read up on Mayo Clinic or NIH websites for more detailed information. WebMD and other sites, aren't detailed and reliable.

Of course I am no expert yet in these matters, so don't take what I say as "fact". This is just my theory on what's going on.

DMXX
08-06-2015, 06:32 PM
EDIT: Human milk has a high lactose content, around 9%. Unprocessed cow milk is about 4.7% lactose. Unprocessed milk from other bovids contains a similar fraction of lactose (goat milk 4.7%,[36] buffalo 4.86%,[37] yak 4.93%,[38] sheep 4.6%)

So this helps explain the pregnancy issue of tolerance; but makes the buffalo vs. cow milk issue more convoluted. Perhaps, processed cow milk has less lactose?

This is even more confusing for me.

Last night, I re-trialled cow's milk after last trying some months back. Drank 150ml semi-skimmed (~7.5g lactose). Stomach was disturbed in the way I'd expect from fast food dairy treats (McFlurry's from McDonalds, can't handle these any more).

In the space of 6-7 hours, I've had 100ml full fat goat's milk (~4.5g lactose), 2 scoops of whey protein (~4g lactose total) and around 400g 0% fat cow's milk yoghurt (~25g lactose, no cultures added). That's nearly 34g of lactose. Absolutely nothing. For whatever reason, it's specifically whole cow's milk in any state I can't handle. Very weird.

Aside from the "problem-solving" element of this, the main reason I keep trialling cow's milk is cost. I'm still a perpetually broke student. Goat's milk is very expensive in the UK (1L = 1.30 pounds), whereas cow's milk is nearly half that (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=252207537).

khanabadoshi
08-06-2015, 08:25 PM
This is even more confusing for me.

Last night, I re-trialled cow's milk after last trying some months back. Drank 150ml semi-skimmed (~7.5g lactose). Stomach was disturbed in the way I'd expect from fast food dairy treats (McFlurry's from McDonalds, can't handle these any more).

In the space of 6-7 hours, I've had 100ml full fat goat's milk (~4.5g lactose), 2 scoops of whey protein (~4g lactose total) and around 400g 0% fat cow's milk yoghurt (~25g lactose, no cultures added). That's nearly 34g of lactose. Absolutely nothing. For whatever reason, it's specifically whole cow's milk in any state I can't handle. Very weird.

Aside from the "problem-solving" element of this, the main reason I keep trialling cow's milk is cost. I'm still a perpetually broke student. Goat's milk is very expensive in the UK (1L = 1.30 pounds), whereas cow's milk is nearly half that (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=252207537).

There is something more going on than just Lactose content. I have to imagine its similar to the mechanism of nicotine in tobacco. Nicotine in and of itself isn't nearly as addictive or euphoric; it's combination with MAOIs in tobacco is what allows the synergistic effect. This is why many people don't feel "satisfied" with a nicotine patch or e-cig.

If we apply similar logic to the milk dilemma, I have to imagine in cow's milk there is Lactose + _______ that causes a stronger response OR in other bovids there is Lactose + __________ that mitigates the response.

EDIT: These "+ _________ " could also be a result of how the milk is processed as well.

rms2
08-07-2015, 01:07 PM
Here (http://www.paardenmelkerij.info/n/en/horse-milk/composition) is an interesting web site for a Paardenmelkerij or horse dairy in Belgium. Apparently the lactose level in horse milk is 6.3%.

That makes sense to me because I have drunk a fair amount of horse milk, and it is noticeably sweeter than cow's milk or goat's milk. I have never had a problem with it or any of the other kinds of milk I have drunk.

GTC
08-07-2015, 01:18 PM
Aside from the "problem-solving" element of this, the main reason I keep trialling cow's milk is cost. I'm still a perpetually broke student. Goat's milk is very expensive in the UK (1L = 1.30 pounds), whereas cow's milk is nearly half that (http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=252207537).

FWIW: A Chinese friend of mine is lactose intolerant, however, he accidentally found that by drinking some Yakult that his wife buys for their daughter, he obtained a temporary tolerance to (processed) cow's milk that lasted some 24 hours. He likes eat cereals with milk for breakfast (like his wife and daughter do) as he says that gives him more energy throughout the mornings than he gets from his traditional Chinese breakfast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakult

Could be worth a try. (Your mileage may vary.)

khanabadoshi
08-07-2015, 01:52 PM
Here (http://www.paardenmelkerij.info/n/en/horse-milk/composition) is an interesting web site for a Paardenmelkerij or horse dairy in Belgium. Apparently the lactose level in horse milk is 6.3%.

That makes sense to me because I have drunk a fair amount of horse milk, and it is noticeably sweeter than cow's milk or goat's milk. I have never had a problem with it or any of the other kinds of milk I have drunk.

I've noticed every type of milk I have drank outside the US was noticeably sweeter, even in the UK. This must be a result of processing. Every country has different laws on what must done for certain foods. ie. in the UK eggs may not be washed, but in the US they must be; so each country's eggs are illegal in the other. I will have to look into regulations pertaining to milk in the EU vs the US. Even the cow's milk packaged by Nestle I drank in Pakistan tasted different. It was difficult to get used to at first, but it was more similar to me than actual fresh-out-the-udder-buffalo milk. It also took a while to get used to that, especially with all the curds floating in it. LOL. I never had an issue digesting it though, cow/buffalo/goat/camel or otherwise -- all issues began when I came back.

This might be useful for DMXX, I didn't think to mention it before. I started taking probiotics once daily and antacids (14-day course of omeprazole every other month), since then most of my dairy digestion (..and red meat) issues have been pretty much resolved. The probiotics replenish gut flora (gastric and intestinal bacteria) that aid in degradation and metabolism (gut flora can diminish for a variety of reasons...but we won't get into that); the Omeprazole decreases acidity (blocks H+ion production in the stomach), which is usually the main response of a sour stomach (Inc. acidity = gas = bloating/nausea = retching/vomiting and/or flatulence/diarrhea). The combination of these two OTC drugs also is useful for anyone who drinks alcohol regularly, has GERD, regularly uses an NSAID (ibuprofen, acetaminophen etc... though you really shouldn't!), or eats very spicy food daily and pays for it later at the toilet.

DMXX
08-07-2015, 02:02 PM
I've tried probiotics (khana jan, I'm in the medical world as well), including the extremely potent ones with a dozen flora. They've never worked for me (Yakult gives me the same issue as normal cow's milk).

I'm fairly certain at this point it isn't a lactose tolerance issue, but something to do with the fat content. I've never responded well to high dairy fat meals.

Off-topic, but I do periodically take short course probiotics with other validated herbal intestinal anti-inflammatories (ginger and green tea are amazing for gut health, pro tip) on account that my disruptive lifestyle (khana probably knows the "work hard, play harder" adage among med students ;) ) is probably skewing my gut microbiome, a topic that's only recently receiving attention in the literature.

rms2
08-07-2015, 02:05 PM
When I was a kid we used to get fresh whole milk right from the cow (well, after a stop in the refrigerator long enough to get it cold) when we visited my maternal grandmother, who lived out in the country on a small farm. I remember the milk tasted way better than anything we ever got from the store. I seem to remember that it was a bit sweeter but not overwhelmingly sweeter.

GTC
08-07-2015, 02:21 PM
I'm fairly certain at this point it isn't a lactose tolerance issue, but something to do with the fat content. I've never responded well to high dairy fat meals.

That's interesting, because my friend still could not eat ice cream despite the Yakult. Whereas milk makes him feel unwell, standard commercial ice cream sends him to the toilet in short order.

DMXX
08-07-2015, 02:37 PM
That's interesting, because my friend still could not eat ice cream despite the Yakult. Whereas milk makes him feel unwell, standard commercial ice cream sends him to the toilet in short order.

Yes, that's in line with my experience. The less fatty the dairy is, the better I can tolerate it.

For years, I had absolutely no problems adding copious amounts of 0% fat powdered cow's milk (which was 60% lactose) to my tea (unsurprising for a Brit, I knock back at least seven a day). Semi-skimmed cow's milk just gives me some discomfort. The one time I tried double-cream cow's milk? Blood was involved.

Megalophias
08-07-2015, 03:58 PM
Lactose tolerance IMPROVES with pregnancy; even in those who are intolerant. If a woman discovers she is "more" intolerant during pregnancy it is a sign she just didn't know the extent of her intolerance. This is because she was unlikely consuming much milk in her diet before (women notoriously do not drink much milk -- hence the huge osteoporosis risk in old age), with the sudden production of milk on her own (far more than she ever consumed in recent years), she felt the full effect of intolerance. With the birth of the baby, it is likely it got "worse" -- because tolerance decreases again after pregnancy. Most likely after she is done breast-feeding, and is no longer producing milk, she will return to her pre-pregnancy level of tolerance (which is actually the same tolerance level... minus the amount of milk in her body).

In case you are thinking, "but she isn't drinking her own milk" -- the lactiferous duct tree extends into the lymph nodes and circulates through the body via this system. (Now why/how that would result in a stronger response -- I don't know -- I imagine the body senses the presence of milk and is now tuned and "primed" to react accordingly to the first drop that finds it's way to the intestines; more knowledgeable people will probably correct this and undo my theory).

She never returned to being lactose tolerant (her children are grown), and it was her second pregnancy when it happened - she was still tolerant after having her first a few years earlier. Anyway, it may just have been a coincidence, of course.

I didn't know about the milk glands being hooked up to the lymphatic system, that is interesting.

The lactose intolerant people I know also react much worse to fatty dairy than to lean dairy.

khanabadoshi
08-07-2015, 05:05 PM
I've tried probiotics (khana jan, I'm in the medical world as well), including the extremely potent ones with a dozen flora. They've never worked for me (Yakult gives me the same issue as normal cow's milk).

I'm fairly certain at this point it isn't a lactose tolerance issue, but something to do with the fat content. I've never responded well to high dairy fat meals.

Off-topic, but I do periodically take short course probiotics with other validated herbal intestinal anti-inflammatories (ginger and green tea are amazing for gut health, pro tip) on account that my disruptive lifestyle (khana probably knows the "work hard, play harder" adage among med students ;) ) is probably skewing my gut microbiome, a topic that's only recently receiving attention in the literature.

EDIT: For those who read my previous post, may not want to jump to the antacids so fast. The Cleveland Clinic just put me in my place: "Lactose is also present in about 20 percent of prescription medications, such as birth control pills (oral contraceptives), and about 6 percent of over-the-counter medications, such as some tablets for stomach acid and gas. Viactiv® calcium chews contain lactose and should be avoided while following a lactose-free diet." So maybe double-check before taking antacids haha.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mir DMXX, I did what I could :)

Metabolism and gastric health is confusing, difficult, hard to diagnose and harder to fix -- that's why the gastroenterologists make the big bucks. To be totally honest, Biochemistry's metabolism units were the bane of my existence... I get shudders thinking about it!

I, myself, have been considering doing an endoscopy, perhaps it's something you may want to look into as well? However, my adverse responses to meat and dairy are quite serious in the rare occasions that I do have them. This is the only reason I am considering such an invasive procedure. I'm sure you've done all your blood tests, I guess you'll just have to hold back on the heavy cream!

[I was about to click "Submit"... but I went off on this wild goose chase instead.]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.... So after a little light reading and delving into the various breeds of cow that produce milk for the UK populace... I've decided not to summarize too much. Why? Because the wonderful folks at the non-profit UK Dairy Council (http://milk.co.uk) have a detailed PDF on The Nutritional Composition of Dairy Products (http://www.milk.co.uk/resources/resource.aspx?intResourceID=55).

In case people don't want to read the lengthy PDF, some salient points:

Jersey and Guernsey breeds (of cow) have a significant increase in whole-milk fat-content @ 5.2% vs. other cow breeds @ ~3.5%. Their milk is generally marketed in the UK as "Breakfast Milk", but not all breakfast milk is exclusively from these breeds.

UK Dairy Council Published Values per 100ml
(sugar = lactose; Fats = total saturated; mono/poly-unsaturated; transfat)

Whole Milk: 4.7g sugar; 4.0 g Fat
Semi-Skimmed: 4.8g sugar; 1.7g Fat
Skimmed: 4.9g sugar; 0.3g Fat
Channel Island: 4.9g sugar; 5.3g Fat
Breakfast Milk: 4.4g sugar; 4.8g Fat
Condensed (Whole): 55.5g sugar; 10.1g Fat
Condensed (Skimmed): 60g sugar; 0.2g Fat
Flavoured Milk: 9.2g sugar (of 9.9g Carbs); 1.2g Fat
Milkshake: 11.1g sugar (of 15.3g Carbs); 1.8g Fat

The rest I am too lazy to list, you guys can read the publication :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I don't understand, is that you, Agha DMXX, have an issue with either fat or lactose -- yet, both have similar quantities in goat/cow whole-milk:

https://i.gyazo.com/4b4ecc97a87e9e5975d731bea9088138.png

Perhaps, those few 10ths of a percent is where your threshold lies?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For anyone who still feels they haven't learned enough about Milk today and thirsts for more.... let me quench you with this beauty I pulled off Wikipedia -- The Dairy Family Tree.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Milkproducts_v2.svg
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I have spent far too much time today obsessing over milk production/regulation in the UK and the various pedigrees of bovids in Europe. Enough for now.

But before I do.... Raw Milk is illegal in the UK?

https://i.gyazo.com/093186e5d636c7d6af5b0446aec4edb7.png

Seriously, not looking at this thread again. (:angel:)

khanabadoshi
08-07-2015, 05:27 PM
She never returned to being lactose tolerant (her children are grown), and it was her second pregnancy when it happened - she was still tolerant after having her first a few years earlier. Anyway, it may just have been a coincidence, of course.

I didn't know about the milk glands being hooked up to the lymphatic system, that is interesting.

The lactose intolerant people I know also react much worse to fatty dairy than to lean dairy.

But it seems based on all the publications I've been reading that in standard varieties of drinking milk, the higher the fat content, lower the lactose; ie. whole vs. skimmed. So either the fatty-milk that people are having issues with is condensed, evaporated, flavored, fortified, or something else (that has significantly more lactose)... ? OR maybe they are slightly lactose intolerant AND have slight lipid-metabolism issues?

I don't know, my brain hurts... if ^ was the case; butter and pancakes would be a lethal combination to a good chunk of the world. If it's just a fat-digestion issue, then eating an avocado should elicit some response. That's probably a good test, have DMXX eat a few avocados and see what happens.

Other than that... pancreas/gall-bladder enzyme deficiencies is the only other thing I can think of that makes fat digestion difficult, but that has nothing to do with lactose. Celiac disease?

Meh, my brainstorming isn't such a good idea, I should stop. Let me go finish medschool, then I'll get back to you. :)
I might have to become a gastroenterologist now because of this thread.

DMXX
08-08-2015, 01:25 AM
What I don't understand, is that you, Agha DMXX, have an issue with either fat or lactose -- yet, both have similar quantities in goat/cow whole-milk:


Which is why I always stick to semi-skimmed/fully skimmed goat's milk and 0% fat dairy products. Even full fat chocolate's beginning to give me problems these days.

Endoscopies? That's very drastic. Other than this dairy issue, I don't have any other GI quandaries that'd justify such a procedure.

khanabadoshi
08-08-2015, 01:29 AM
Which is why I always stick to semi-skimmed/fully skimmed goat's milk and 0% fat dairy products. Even full fat chocolate's beginning to give me problems these days.

Endoscopies? That's very drastic. Other than this dairy issue, I don't have any other GI quandaries that'd justify such a procedure.


I'm a drastic individual, what can I say? I mean I did move to Pakistan on a whim... LOL!

vettor
08-13-2015, 06:01 AM
Reading this paper ( nice map on neolithic ages for Europe )

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3048992/

they stated...identified 9 different haplotypes (H8, H9, H11, H12, H48, H49, H95, H97, and H98) with alleles carrying the T-13910 LP variant ............Of which one of these I belong too.

does it matter in regards to which animal this milk is drawn from

here is another paper which states also my marker originates from either Parsi or Saami ( big distance from each other !?!?!)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1950831/

DMXX
09-14-2015, 10:27 AM
Posting this here for the sake of putting khana's medical mind at ease. :P

I've finally been sleeping properly and decided to test and see whether it's affected my tolerance for cow's milk. On top of the usual yoghurt and goat's milk, I've been drinking 200-300ml of fresh cow's milk just fine for a week now without any problems. Been adding things up and I'm having well over 40g lactose per day without a hitch... That amount would make a lactose intolerant person camp out in their toilet all day long.

Diagnosis? I think all of this came from disrupted sleep making the IBS flare up indefinitely. This puts me in the same genotypically-intolerant-phenotypically-tolerant category as the South Asian users here.

khanabadoshi
09-14-2015, 10:52 AM
Posting this here for the sake of putting khana's medical mind at ease. :P

I've finally been sleeping properly and decided to test and see whether it's affected my tolerance for cow's milk. On top of the usual yoghurt and goat's milk, I've been drinking 200-300ml of fresh cow's milk just fine for a week now without any problems. Been adding things up and I'm having well over 40g lactose per day without a hitch... That amount would make a lactose intolerant person camp out in their toilet all day long.

Diagnosis? I think all of this came from disrupted sleep making the IBS flare up indefinitely. This puts me in the same genotypically-intolerant-phenotypically-tolerant category as the South Asian users here.

Thank you for updating me; I was about to pull a House MD and just scream SARCOIDOSIS for no reason.
I am glad you are feeling better. Let's not jinx this and /endthread. :D

(I still kinda wanna make you eat lots of Avacados -- just to see....so...curious. hahahaha! :behindsofa:)

DMXX
09-14-2015, 11:05 AM
Thank you for updating me; I was about to pull a House MD and just scream SARCOIDOSIS for no reason.


That or Lupus, right? Kind of the wrong demographic for both. :P



I still kinda wanna make you eat lots of Avacados ...

Sorry man, I'd prefer our friendship to not go down that path (http://www.josephmcconnell.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/funny-pictures-auto-fat-people-woman-384121.png)

khanabadoshi
09-14-2015, 11:08 AM
That or Lupus, right? Kind of the wrong demographic for both. :P



Sorry man, I'd prefer our friendship to not go down that path (http://www.josephmcconnell.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/funny-pictures-auto-fat-people-woman-384121.png)

If anyone ever asks me,"Khana, what is love"? I now have a link to send them. Thank you so much.

Sangarius
09-14-2015, 11:17 AM
I'm lactose tolerant, both in genotype and phenotype.

rs182549: CT
rs4988235: AG

My maternal grandparents on the other hand are both lactose-intolerant genotype-wise. They have no problems digesting dairy products, though. My mother certainly doesn't.

Jessie
09-17-2015, 01:22 PM
For my 3 family members and myself tested we are all the same: We all can drink milk and eat dairy with no problems. My mother's family were dairy farmers. :)

rs182549:TT
rs4988235:AA

Palisto
10-18-2015, 02:50 PM
Please help:
Is there any ancient or present individual that has 22018A (rs182549: "T" at 23andme), but not 13910T (rs4988235: "A" at 23andme)? This is the ancestral allele.
rs182549:TT
rs4988235:AG or GG

jesus
10-20-2015, 09:21 AM
Mine:
Rs182549 CT
Rs4988235 AG

My sister gets the same as well. No problems with dairy products, or any food related allergies.

parasar
10-20-2015, 02:53 PM
Same here:
rs182549 CT
rs4988235 AG

Mbantua
10-21-2015, 03:59 AM
I don't have any of the lactase persistence SNPs, but it makes no difference to me. I eat and drink whatever dairy products are obtainable from the market place, the effect on me of consuming all these different types of dairy product is nil or negligible. Consequently I do not understand all the hype on a these lactase persistence SNPs. Personally drinking more than a pint or 600 mL of milk at one time is enough for me as I have a problem with consuming what is essentially the exudation of some smelly animal, like its sweat or spittle, I have a problem with consuming honey as well, think where the honey comes from the bee.

DMXX
10-23-2015, 01:41 AM
Consequently I do not understand all the hype on a these lactase persistence SNPs.

Several reasons:
- Genome-wide scans of various populations have shown lactase persistence has emerged independently across the world at differing times, though all are likely implicated with the agricultural era of humanity (how many hunter-gatherers beforehand consumed milk, I wonder?)
- 23andMe (one of the most popular testing venues) has only ever showcased one of these.
- From above, that gene region best explains North European (and South Asian to a lesser extent) lactose tolerance. Not other parts of West Eurasia.



Personally drinking more than a pint or 600 mL of milk at one time is enough for me as I have a problem with consuming what is essentially the exudation of some smelly animal, like its sweat or spittle


To each their own. Any ideas how you developed this perspective? I cannot eat any meat that isn't well done after being ill several times thanks to poorly cooked ones as a child. I anticipate you might have an experience-based narrative on that also.

Megalophias
10-23-2015, 02:40 AM
Genome-wide scans of various populations have shown lactase persistence has emerged independently across the world at differing times, though all are likely implicated with the agricultural era of humanity (how many hunter-gatherers beforehand consumed milk, I wonder?)
I don't know of any foragers that milked live animals, but some considered the curdled milk from a suckling buffalo calf's stomach a real treat. Wolves also enjoy it, I'm told.

parasar
10-23-2015, 03:18 PM
I don't have any of the lactase persistence SNPs, but it makes no difference to me. I eat and drink whatever dairy products are obtainable from the market place, the effect on me of consuming all these different types of dairy product is nil or negligible. Consequently I do not understand all the hype on a these lactase persistence SNPs. Personally drinking more than a pint or 600 mL of milk at one time is enough for me as I have a problem with consuming what is essentially the exudation of some smelly animal, like its sweat or spittle, I have a problem with consuming honey as well, think where the honey comes from the bee.

It is more than just the phenotype and the different independent types of LP. It is −13910*T's connection to the Indo-European spread (a major draw if you have not already noticed) that holds this fascination.
Herders of Indian and European Cattle Share Their Predominant Allele for Lactase Persistence
"-13910*T allele ...We confirm that the mutation is identical by descent" http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/29/1/249.full

ViktorL1
10-29-2015, 01:34 PM
I am CC for rs182549, and I am lactose intolerant phenotypically.

Huntergatherer1066
10-31-2015, 06:45 PM
I wrote this paper for my Ancient Diets class back in graduate school in 2011 I think, it is likely somewhat out of date now but some of it may be interesting: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B03cHJJNkmyaYzR1dEVnTklJenM/view?usp=sharing

Baltimore1937
11-24-2015, 08:54 AM
A simplified version (Lactase persistence):

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-24/europeans-drink-milk-tolerate-lactose-dates/6955414

Kurumim
07-09-2017, 04:13 PM
Me:

rs182549 CT
rs4988235 AG

I can drink milk, but moderately, too much gibs me gases

Pappy
08-13-2017, 10:07 PM
I wish I could pick this up, dairy is so yummy. Doesn't agree with the whole family.
It odd that Drs refers to it as a disease, same with our celiac issues.

rms2
08-14-2017, 01:52 AM
On the LP side, I can do dairy until the cows come home. However, on the cardiac side, I have to watch my cholesterol, so it's skim milk, fat free sour cream, and fat free frozen yogurt for me.

paoloferrari
08-15-2017, 08:43 AM
The Evolution of Lactose Tolerance in Dairying Populations

http://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199694013.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199694013-e-12

"Abstract and Keywords

Among the biocultural innovations associated with the Neolithic, dairying and the evolution of lactose tolerance is the most studied. Expression of the enzyme lactase, which digests the milk sugar lactose, decreases after weaning in mammals, including most humans. However, some humans express lactase throughout adulthood—a trait known as lactase persistence (LP). Striking observations about LP evolution include: (i) a strong correlation between LP frequency and a history of herding and dairying; (ii) genetic patterns indicating LP-associated variants have increased in frequency through natural selection; (iii) two of these variants have been experimentally shown to affect lactase expression in adults; and (iv) archaeological and ancient DNA data indicate dairying pre-dated the rise of LP-associated variants. This chapter reviews the biology and archaeology of LP, examines some of the hypotheses formulated to explain its distribution, and outlines how simulation modelling has contributed to our understanding of its evolution."

Trixster
08-22-2017, 01:04 AM
I love to see the appropriate name for this condition. Which is actually not the norm (though all these lactaid commercials would have one think so called lactose intolerance is a problem).

Nothing normal about drinking the milk of another mammal meant for its calf. Though I can imagine it started in times of famine but it makes no sense to do so now.

Saetro
08-22-2017, 09:58 PM
I love to see the appropriate name for this condition. Which is actually not the norm (though all these lactaid commercials would have one think so called lactose intolerance is a problem).

Nothing normal about drinking the milk of another mammal meant for its calf. Though I can imagine it started in times of famine but it makes no sense to do so now.

Yes, deviant but advantageous.
(And try telling your lactose tolerant friends that they are deviant.)

The true advance was probably not lactose tolerance, but the invention of low lactose dairy such as yoghurt and cheeses.
The softer forms improved calcium uptake for expectant mothers and the hard cheeses provided protein through winter.

Nevertheless, the fact that lactose tolerance moved through the population swifter than just about anything else means there was a definite advantage.
Decades ago, my first job was with a company with a wing making infant formulas, one of which contained lactase, so could provide lactose-free milk for infants.
Was this the genetic drive?
That there were also some infants with lactose intolerance?
(Sorry about the following ignorant question, but I have not yet found which, if any, of my library subscriptions allows access to that seminal book chapter.)
There must be some sort of switch that in normal humans (lactose intolerance) switches off the lactase gene sometime in adolescence or young adulthood.
Is this what the lactose intolerant infants had, a switch that was already off for them?
Or did they have a faulty or inactive form of the lactase gene?

Would Some Kind Genetecist please enlighten me?

Trixster
08-23-2017, 12:59 AM
Yes, deviant but advantageous.
(And try telling your lactose tolerant friends that they are deviant.)

The true advance was probably not lactose tolerance, but the invention of low lactose dairy such as yoghurt and cheeses.
The softer forms improved calcium uptake for expectant mothers and the hard cheeses provided protein through winter.

Nevertheless, the fact that lactose tolerance moved through the population swifter than just about anything else means there was a definite advantage.
Decades ago, my first job was with a company with a wing making infant formulas, one of which contained lactase, so could provide lactose-free milk for infants.
Was this the genetic drive?
That there were also some infants with lactose intolerance?
(Sorry about the following ignorant question, but I have not yet found which, if any, of my library subscriptions allows access to that seminal book chapter.)
There must be some sort of switch that in normal humans (lactose intolerance) switches off the lactase gene sometime in adolescence or young adulthood.
Is this what the lactose intolerant infants had, a switch that was already off for them?
Or did they have a faulty or inactive form of the lactase gene?

Would Some Kind Genetecist please enlighten me?

That is a truly interesting question. This is all relatively new to me, but I am going to follow this thread. Interestingly enough, all 3 of my children were considered "lactose intolerant" and had all sorts of tummy issues in infancy. I was not able to nurse (go figure as I am a nurse) so they were all reared on soy formulas.

From what I know the lactase gene is to switch off by the time a child is weaned (about 3 years old on average) . This is inclusive of all milk (including human milk) as it is presumed that by that time, a human (or animal) is expected to be eating on their own. Hence, there would be no need to continue producing the enzyme to digest it. I've also read a few studies that indicate (sorry I do not know how to post a link) but roughly upwards of 70% of adults around the world do not have the lactase persistent gene (or as we in the western world like to refer to it "lactose intolerant". The lactase persistent populations are primarily those in Northern Europe.

misanthropy
11-13-2018, 07:07 AM
Lactase persistent looks like due to the T allele in rs182549. AG on rs49882235 also appears to be lactase persistent to an extent, but not as much as AA. I do drink at least a glass of milk every day. I want to figure out which part of my ancestry is most likely contributing to this lactase persistence.

misanthropy & misanthropy_brother

rs4988235 - AG (aka 13910T)

rs182549 - CT (aka 22018A)


Mine:
Rs182549 CT
Rs4988235 AG

My sister gets the same as well. No problems with dairy products, or any food related allergies.


Same here:
rs182549 CT
rs4988235 AG



I'm lactose tolerant, both in genotype and phenotype.

rs182549: CT
rs4988235: AG




Me:

rs182549 CT
rs4988235 AG

I can drink milk, but moderately, too much gibs me gases
Hey, we all have the same results! That's interesting. All non-Euro Asians or West Asians too.

Edit: Oh I see this is the Euro ht3 LP phenotype, which is what we probably share.

misanthropy
11-13-2018, 08:00 AM
Look at panel B, which shows the distribution of the common 13910*T allele associated with LP. Only scantily present in Asia in low frequencies. Is this a case of convergent evolution, or could ancient Indo-Europeans have spread them into Asia? Not sure about the timelines.

http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/royptb/366/1566/863/F1.medium.gif

Figure 1.
Interpolated maps of the distribution of LP and the −13910*T allele in the ‘old world’. (a) LP phenotype distribution. Data points (dots) were taken from the literature (see text and [14] for details). (b) Distribution of the allele −13910*T, associated to LP. Dots represent sample data taken from a previous review [14,26–30]; crosses represent data for new locations not previously tested and diamonds correspond to locations where additional data have been added. Regularly updated frequency data are available at http://www.ucl.ac.uk//mace-lab/GLAD/ website.

*bolded mine
source (http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1566/863)

Edit: Why Indians and Europeans Tolerate Milk (https://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011/09/15/why-indians-and-europeans-tolerate-milk/)


“To our surprise we found that the -13910T mutation was also common in India – especially in those populations with a tradition of milk drinking,” added Toomas Kivisild, a senior author of the study.

“Not only that, but by looking at nearby genetic regions we could show that the Indian -13910T has the same origin as that found in Europeans; that it could lead back to the same few people who may have migrated between Europe and India,” Mr. Kivisild said.

Mark Thomas, a professor from University College London who was also involved in the study, added that just a few migrants would’ve carried the genetic mutation to India, where it then quickly spread. “Genetic data doesn’t support some sort of large migration of people from Europe to India in the last 10,000 years," he said in the statement.

The lactase persistent mutation, however, is spread unevenly in India. It is sparse among people in southern and eastern regions, the study found, noting that the spread of the gene variant was highly dependent on the mobility of people who kept cattle and the extent to which they reproduced with people who didn’t keep cattle.

Hmm, well my mom's side did have a North Indian origin before they migrated to South Central India.

DMXX
11-13-2018, 08:26 AM
I love to see the appropriate name for this condition. Which is actually not the norm (though all these lactaid commercials would have one think so called lactose intolerance is a problem).

Nothing normal about drinking the milk of another mammal meant for its calf. Though I can imagine it started in times of famine but it makes no sense to do so now.

Lactose intolerance is a medical term, and both tolerance and intolerance don't have any particular connotations in the medical world. For example, increasing tolerance to isosorbide mononitrate for people with stable angina isn't a good thing. Lactose intolerance only has the capacity of having a negative connotation among lay people/the general public.

The inverse medical term (lactase persistence) is neither globally positive or negative, for that matter. Persistent atrial fibrillation isn't a good thing.

Besides, what constitutes as "normal" is, in some respects, relative. Pretty sure your or my ancestors from four centuries ago wouldn't find Westerners sitting for over 5 hours a day to be particularly normal or healthy (certainly isn't the latter!).

drobbah
11-13-2018, 10:02 AM
T/G-13915 rs41380347- AA

This is the lactose persistence snp in pastoralists populations of Arabia,Sudan and the Horn

Ruderico
11-13-2018, 10:46 AM
Tested with 23andme:

Me:
Rs182549 CT
Rs4988235 AG


Missus:
Rs182549 TT
Rs4988235 AA


She can drink milk but her stomach gets a bit upset, however she does have a rather sensitive stomach - coffee also has the same effect - but otherwise she can drink it like a champ.
I pretty much don't drink milk, but a year and a half ago when I had my tonsils removed I had to resort to a milk-heavy diet (around 1L per day) in order to ingest some protein otherwise my weigh would drop too much, and I was okay

msmarjoribanks
11-14-2018, 01:52 PM
I have to figure out how to look at the 23andMe raw more easily, but from their lactase persistence results:

Rs4988235 AA -- likely lactose tolerant/lactase persistent.

Which I am, and the places where my ancestors come from are places where the vast majority of the populations are, so that's not surprising. I don't drink milk that often (I eat yogurt and cheese all the time), but when I do I've never had an issue, in fact I just impulse bought some whole milk from a local farm at the farmer's market this past weekend, so am including it in my breakfasts. For a while I'd drink a glass of milk and eat a banana before going out running in the morning, since anything else would mess up my stomach, but milk never did. (I now mostly run before eating anything unless it's a long run.)

My dad has the same results I do, and drank milk off and on all his life, but has recently decided that he feels better not consuming it. I slightly think it's because his Korean-American significant other sold him on the idea and it's more mental than real, but if he's happy just using soy milk, that's cool (he avoided anything but skim anyway, for cholesterol reasons).

JFWinstone
11-14-2018, 07:21 PM
For rs4988235 mum got A/G and mine is A/A. Both of us have trouble digesting dairy, switching to lactose free products have helped us a lot.

JoeyP37
11-16-2018, 09:09 PM
RS182549-T/T
RS4988235-A/A.
Ancestry-88% Northwest European.
My stepfather, who is 88% Italian (and mostly south Italian) has some trouble digesting dairy, but every other family member is in the lactose tolerant group.

Temir
11-16-2018, 10:27 PM
i am Turkish and i have lactose intolerance,i can not drink ayran also :D

JoeyP37
11-25-2018, 01:41 PM
Browsing my data from 23andMe, I observed that I have two copies of the gene for lactose tolerance, which makes sense as I am predominantly of Northwest European descent. My stepfather, who is predominantly of southern Italian descent, has problems digesting lactose so I believe he may be heterozygous, having one copy of the tolerance gene and one copy of the intolerance gene.

Rethel
11-25-2018, 02:00 PM
i am Turkish and i have lactose intolerance,i can not drink ayran also :D

So, when you drink milk, what happend? Are you vomiting or what?

rms2
12-08-2018, 12:15 AM
So, when you drink milk, what happend? Are you vomiting or what?

I have a friend who is lactose intolerant, but he loves lattes. He says they upset his stomach and give him massive gas, to which his wife objects.

Beans do the same thing to me, but I still eat them.

Milk I have no problem with; in fact, it calms me.

jdean
12-08-2018, 12:19 AM
I have a friend who is lactose intolerant, but he loves lattes. He says they upset his stomach and give him massive gas, to which his wife objects.

Beans do the same thing to me, but I still eat them.

Milk I have no problem with; in fact, it calms me.

My wife banned me from drinking Newcastle Brown : )

spruithean
12-08-2018, 01:35 PM
So, when you drink milk, what happend? Are you vomiting or what?

Likely not vomiting so much but some lactose intolerant folks find themselves spending extra time on the porcelain throne.


I have a friend who is lactose intolerant, but he loves lattes. He says they upset his stomach and give him massive gas, to which his wife objects.

Beans do the same thing to me, but I still eat them.

Milk I have no problem with; in fact, it calms me.

I wouldn't recommend drinking milk (or consuming products with lactose) if you are lactose intolerant. While I myself am not lactose intolerant those around me who are do not have a good time after having ice cream, milk or other things. It's also not quite the same as eating beans the magical fruit.

rms2
12-08-2018, 04:11 PM
I'm lactase persistent myself and homozygous for LP on both of the most common European LP variants. I've had cow's milk (obviously), goat's milk, and mare's milk, and none of them has ever troubled me in the least. I love dairy products.

In fact, of the three types of milk I named, horse milk is the highest in lactose, which must be why it tastes sweeter than cow's milk and goat's milk.

27571

I've also eaten my share of evaporated milk and sweetened condensed milk on blini (Russian pancakes), and they're loaded with lactose.

Never had a problem with any of it.

DMXX
12-08-2018, 04:41 PM
A lot of people have an intolerance to another component of cow's milk than the lactose part. Anecdotally, a lot of the general physicians in the UK think "lactose intolerance" is actually a cow's milk allergy (usually to the protein component, either the whey or casein) in most people here.

It's pretty easy to test for true lactose intolerance in a clinical setting - Give someone at least 10g of lactose orally and wait up to 4 hours for either side-effects to manifest (bloating, diarrhoea, constipation, cramping etc.) or (preferable objectively) take a blood sample to see whether the anticipated elevation in glucose takes place (since lactose is digested by lactase into glucose and galactose).

We hear a lot about dairy intolerance (catch-all term) in the West these days - A big chunk of the cases don't have anything to do with a true intolerance of lactose. Instead, they're allergy-related (I'm one of these people). The rates of "true" lactose intolerance are going to increase mostly due to either changing demographics (more pronounced in the "New World" countries) or an increased awareness of it. Gastrointestinal diseases will contribute (e.g. Coeliac), but I don't know whether the incidence of these are rising or not.

In the UK, I would guess the rise in dairy intolerance is due to the aforementioned allergies, which we know has been on the rise since the 80's onwards. I'm embedded in those stats, but that's okay (goat's milk saved me from a lifetime of buying the questionable sounding "nut milk").

Principe
12-08-2018, 05:22 PM
A lot of people have an intolerance to another component of cow's milk than the lactose part. Anecdotally, a lot of the general physicians in the UK think "lactose intolerance" is actually a cow's milk allergy (usually to the protein component, either the whey or casein) in most people here.

It's pretty easy to test for true lactose intolerance in a clinical setting - Give someone at least 10g of lactose orally and wait up to 4 hours for either side-effects to manifest (bloating, diarrhoea, constipation, cramping etc.) or (preferable objectively) take a blood sample to see whether the anticipated elevation in glucose takes place (since lactose is digested by lactase into glucose and galactose).

We hear a lot about dairy intolerance (catch-all term) in the West these days - A big chunk of the cases don't have anything to do with a true intolerance of lactose. Instead, they're allergy-related (I'm one of these people). The rates of "true" lactose intolerance are going to increase mostly due to either changing demographics (more pronounced in the "New World" countries) or an increased awareness of it. Gastrointestinal diseases will contribute (e.g. Coeliac), but I don't know whether the incidence of these are rising or not.

In the UK, I would guess the rise in dairy intolerance is due to the aforementioned allergies, which we know has been on the rise since the 80's onwards. I'm embedded in those stats, but that's okay (goat's milk saved me from a lifetime of buying the questionable sounding "nut milk").

I just found out i’m Lactose Intolerant two weeks ago, I did the clinical the Clinical test, it was a long and enduring procedure, I had to fast the night before and consume a liquid containing 50 g of Lactose (surprisingly tasted of Ginger Ale), and had to take blood tests before consuming, and every half an hour after consuming for two hours, in total 6 vials of blood were taken. I have a true Lactose Intolerance, not only did the symptoms manifest (went to the washroom 3 times in a span of 3 hours) my blood glucose levels dropped from my fasting 5.3 to 4.6 after the 2 hour mark. It’s unfortunate because I have change the way I eat, even being of Italian background many of our dishes contain dairy products.

DMXX
12-08-2018, 05:56 PM
I just found out i’m Lactose Intolerant two weeks ago, I did the clinical the Clinical test, it was a long and enduring procedure, I had to fast the night before and consume a liquid containing 50 g of Lactose (surprisingly tasted of Ginger Ale), and had to take blood tests before consuming, and every half an hour after consuming for two hours, in total 6 vials of blood were taken. I have a true Lactose Intolerance, not only did the symptoms manifest (went to the washroom 3 times in a span of 3 hours) my blood glucose levels dropped from my fasting 5.3 to 4.6 after the 2 hour mark. It’s unfortunate because I have change the way I eat, even being of Italian background many of our dishes contain dairy products.

50g? Damn, that's excessive and arguably pretty cruel.

The few clinicians I've spoken to here in England who've performed the procedure told me 10g suffices. This randomised-control trial corroborates. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4481453/)

Yeah, you can probably handle small quantities of lactose in your diet with some probiotics (l. bacilli being the main one). Cultured yoghurts and drinks like ayran/keffir/dugh (all names for the same drink) contain it, if you'd prefer not to use a pill supplement.

With probiotic supplementation, you could probably get away with cheese and yoghurts, though anything that's mostly milk-derived will give you issues either way. Lactose-free milk is a very viable substitute.

Principe
12-08-2018, 06:09 PM
50g? Damn, that's excessive and arguably pretty cruel.

The few clinicians I've spoken to here in England who've performed the procedure told me 10g suffices. This randomised-control trial corroborates. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4481453/)

Yeah, you can probably handle small quantities of lactose in your diet with some probiotics (l. bacilli being the main one). Cultured yoghurts and drinks like ayran/keffir/dugh (all names for the same drink) contain it, if you'd prefer not to use a pill supplement.

With probiotic supplementation, you could probably get away with cheese and yoghurts, though anything that's mostly milk-derived will give you issues either way. Lactose-free milk is a very viable substitute.

Yeah I agree, that’s the procedure in at least Canada.

10 g would have been much easier on the stomach, but at least I was able to get the accurate result.

My doctors told me the same thing Kefir is okay, there is even Ghee butter which contains very little or none at all depending the brand. My doctor told me not use the Lactaid pill more than once a week, as over using it can cause intestinal issues, so I got to be careful and plan before I consuming anything.

I am bit lucky in that sense because I work for a Dairy company (I know ironic) and we make many Lactose Free products aside from Milk, like cheese slices, I have to test and see what my body will and will not accept, for me the main concern now is to get the right amount of Calcium, I have been playing it safe and eating vegetable and fruit sources that are high Calcium to get to the recommended amount.

tipirneni
12-09-2018, 07:31 AM
Looks like I have more rare lactose tolerant profile that is present in 10% of Some South Asian population & in Iberia & Tuscany & China & in Latino population

rs4988243 -> CT

tipirneni
12-09-2018, 01:38 PM
Looks like I have more rare lactose tolerant profile that is present in 10% of Some South Asian population & in Iberia & Tuscany & China & in Latino population

rs4988243 -> CT

Some more stats


Qatar108-Genome 216 29 36 0.43519
Qatar1005-All 176 20 31 0.40341

1000 Genomes : 0.0892572

DA125 125 ERS2374368 Kangju Tian Shan 1738 T-Y13279 T-Y13279 = FULL CC

DMXX
12-11-2018, 02:27 AM
I don't know much about that particular mutation. There was a paper I found several years ago that determined it correlated strongly with lactase persistence, but couldn't find any mechanistic evidence that the mutation itself caused it.

Which is the derived (causative) allele, C or T?

I'm a bit confused by my own biological make-up now, as I've been consuming organic (pasteurised non-homogenised) local cow's milk for a day now without any issues (no goat's milk at my local store and I refuse to ingest "nut milk")... I'm one of those annoying allergic people, so it's usually hard to determine what's giving me issues.

It's not the casein, the lactose or the whey. What is it? I'm back to square one again!

tipirneni
12-11-2018, 05:08 PM
I don't know much about that particular mutation. There was a paper I found several years ago that determined it correlated strongly with lactase persistence, but couldn't find any mechanistic evidence that the mutation itself caused it.

Which is the derived (causative) allele, C or T?

I'm a bit confused by my own biological make-up now, as I've been consuming organic (pasteurised non-homogenised) local cow's milk for a day now without any issues (no goat's milk at my local store and I refuse to ingest "nut milk")... I'm one of those annoying allergic people, so it's usually hard to determine what's giving me issues.

It's not the casein, the lactose or the whey. What is it? I'm back to square one again!

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2015/02/lactose-intolerance-six-mcm6-variants.html gives all these genes based on this article http://biologiaevolutiva.org/dcomas/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Enattah2008.pdf http://www.ebd.csic.es/ECOGENES/Eaaswar_Qatar_Poster.pdf

rare gene < 10% lp in some South Asian populations & Middle East & African & Tuscany/iberia/CEU & China/Japan & Finns (ht5 profile)

For rs4988243 -> CT

T is ancestral & C is the derivative that is req for persistence.

There is also SNP that also causes LP in South Asian South India (35% of lp) (ht4 & 5 profile)

rs3213871 -> CT

Our part of South India is high in Milk consumption 5th after UP(real big state)/Rajasthan(high milk consumption)/Gujarat(high milk consumption)/MP(big state).

tipirneni
12-11-2018, 05:55 PM
http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2015/02/lactose-intolerance-six-mcm6-variants.html gives all these genes based on this article http://biologiaevolutiva.org/dcomas/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Enattah2008.pdf http://www.ebd.csic.es/ECOGENES/Eaaswar_Qatar_Poster.pdf

rare gene < 10% lp in some South Asian populations & Middle East & African & Tuscany/iberia/CEU & China/Japan & Finns (ht5 profile)

For rs4988243 -> CT

T is ancestral & C is the derivative that is req for persistence.

There is also SNP that also causes LP in South Asian South India (35% of lp) (ht4 & 5 profile)

rs3213871 -> CT

Our part of South India is high in Milk consumption 5th after UP(real big state)/Rajasthan(high milk consumption)/Gujarat(high milk consumption)/MP(big state).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2253962/ paper shows


rs4988243 -> CT present in Korean groups but not Saudi
Kurdish site shows this is present 41% in Qatar population

rs3213871 -> CT present in both Korean & Saudi groups

surbakhunWeesste
12-11-2018, 08:54 PM
I am genetically lactose intolerant, milk products have caused problems for me all my life but I love cheese, yogurt, dogh, so I always took the magic pills. Recently, I have been drinking raw milk and munching on raw butter from a farm with no problems at all.
Weird but awesome for me.

tipirneni
12-11-2018, 09:13 PM
The prevalence of heterozygous and homozygous genotypes associated with lactase persistence
according to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23415628 (jewish & arab compared, arab different from more Euro Jew profile)

Bedouin-Arabs, Ashkenazi, Iraqi Jew, Moroccan Jews
CT, TT for -13910C/T 3%, 7%, 17% and 18%
GA, AA for -22018G/A 3%, 17%, 17% and 18%

tipirneni
12-12-2018, 04:14 PM
https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/43398607/Multiple_Rare_Variants_as_a_Cause_of_a_C20160305-1505-1c17frw.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1544634208&Signature=%2FUl%2BNP0xnswDNhEabIEK7P9QkpA%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DMultiple_Rare_V ariants_as_a_Cause_of_a_C.pdf

The most striking outcome of this study is the finding that
the LCT enhancer sequence is significantly more heterogeneous in the lactase persistent Somali than in the nonpersistent members of the cohort. These findings are in dramatic contrast to the situation in Europe, where a single allele causal of lactase persistence is found, at very high frequency, in a genomic region of reduced genetic diversity, and which is a ‘‘textbook example’’ of the classical signal for a positive selective sweep. Here we argue that the increased degree of genetic diversity seen in the lactase persistent group resulting from multiple advantageous mutations is also a consequence of selection. The clustering of the lactase persistence associated variants in a single short sequence region, the fact that they
occur on different haplotype backgrounds, and the substantial degree of genetic differentiation of this region between phenotypically distinct groups, taken together support the conclusion that these changes are of functional importance, but also suggest that the enhancer region affects LCT expression in a complex manner.

Population group n P -14025A>G -14010G>C -14009T>G -13915T>G -13913T>C -13910C>T -13907C>G -13806A>G
Afar 37 y 0.000 0.000 0.013 ± 0.01 0.122 ± 0.04 0.013 ± 0.01 0.013 ± 0.01 0.297 ± 0.05 0.014 ± 0.01
Amhara 19 n 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.132 ± 0.05 0.000 0.000 0.053 ± 0.04 0.000
Beni Amer 81 0.641 0.000 0.000 0.105± 0.02 0.247 ± 0.03 0.000 0.006 ± 0.01 0.006 ± 0.01 0.000
Bedouin - Israeli 19 y 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.132 ± 0.05 0.000 0.026 ± 0.03 0.000 0.000
Bedouin - Jordanian 23 0.511 0.022 ± 0.02 0.000 0.000 0.348 ± 0.07 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Bedouin – Saudi Arabian 47 0.591 0.011 ± 0.01 0.000 0.000 0.479 ± 0.05 0.011 ± 0.01 0.000 0.000 0.000
Druze 14 n 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.107 ± 0.06 0.000 0.036 ± 0.04 0.000 0.000
Dunglawi 6 n 0.083 ± 0.08 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.083 ± 0.08 0.000
N. European 55 0.801 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.618 ± 0.05 0.000 0.000
S. European 33 0.181 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.091 ± 0.04 0.000 0.000
Fulani 55 0.531 0.009 ± 0.01 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.036 ± 0.02 0.391 ± 0.05 0.000 0.000
Israeli non-Bedouin Arab 80 n 0.000 0.000 0.006 ± 0.01 0.050 ± 0.02 0.025 ± 0.01 0.000 0.000 0.000
Jaali 86 0.272 0.000 0.000 0.064 ± 0.02 0.134 ± 0.03 0.006 ± 0.01 0.006 ± 0.01 0.006 ± 0.01 0.000
Mambila 37 n 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Palestinians 18 n 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Shaigi 9 n 0.000 0.000 0.167 ± 0.09 0.056 ± 0.05 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Shuwa Arab 15 y 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.133 ± 0.06 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Somali 37 0.132 0.000 0.027 ± 0.02 0.013 ± 0.01 0.041 ± 0.02 0.013 ± 0.01 0.000 0.095 ± 0.03 0.019 ± 0.02
Somali (phenotyped) 109 0.132 0.000 0.005 ± 0.01 0.014 ± 0.01 0.050 ± 0.01 0.000 0.018 ± 0.01 0.055 ± 0.02 0.009 ± 0.02
Wolof 59 0.293 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000

Table 3. Allele frequencies of all intron 13 variants observed in the populations genotyped. Standard error was calculated using the formula s = √(pq/2n), where n is the number of individuals genotyped. The column entitled P indicates whether the population is considered to be pastoralist (y) or not (n), or, if known, lactase persistence allele frequency (calculated from published phenotype frequency: source references; 1Holden & Mace 1997, 2data presented here, 3Arnold et al., 1980. Allele frequencies >0.05 are indicated in bold. 13730T>G is not included here as complete data is not available in all populations.

rms2
12-20-2018, 01:01 AM
My oldest boy got his Family Finder results yesterday. The raw data became available for download this evening and reveal that he is, like me, homozygous for both of the two most common European LP variants: rs4988325 (AA) and rs182549 (TT).

In other words, he is, like me, lactase persistent genetically, and I know from experience that he also has no problems with milk and other dairy products.

Lupriac
12-20-2018, 05:08 PM
Why do Middle Easterners have high levels of Lactose intolerance yet many livestock were domesticated there, and also the first collection of Milk happened at Mesopotamia (Iraq)..?

msmarjoribanks
12-28-2018, 05:57 PM
Why do Middle Easterners have high levels of Lactose intolerance yet many livestock were domesticated there, and also the first collection of Milk happened at Mesopotamia (Iraq)..?

Probably lacked the pressure to rely on dairy that people in colder climates had?

Saetro
12-29-2018, 02:19 AM
Probably lacked the pressure to rely on dairy that people in colder climates had?

In other words, there were other sources of Vitamin D.
More sunlight would improve natural conversion so external sources were not required.
That seems to be the feeling of many involved with other phenomena against which Vitamin D may help protect.

halfalp
12-29-2018, 11:49 AM
My oldest boy got his Family Finder results yesterday. The raw data became available for download this evening and reveal that he is, like me, homozygous for both of the two most common European LP variants: rs4988325 (AA) and rs182549 (TT).

In other words, he is, like me, lactase persistent genetically, and I know from experience that he also has no problems with milk and other dairy products.

Gotta feed him those Banana Milk-Shake with Whole Milk for Diamond Bones.

Lupriac
01-11-2019, 07:58 PM
Well, I am lactose tolerant which feels good, Probably because all of my ancestors were farmers who raised livestock (Sheep, Cattle and Goats) and consumed dairy products daily :)

drobbah
01-11-2019, 08:26 PM
Apparently Somalis/Cushites have our own LP-associated allele G-14009 (rs869051967).The Beja have it around 23% but I have a feeling Somalis probably have it at a much higher frequency due to obvious fact Arabs did not affect us genetically the way they did in the Sudan.


Well, I am lactose tolerant which feels good, Probably because all of my ancestors were farmers who raised livestock (Sheep, Cattle and Goats) and consumed dairy products daily :)
Perhaps you also have camel raising bedouin ancestors? Check out what you get on the Arabian rs41380347

Emilio Delfin Vang B
01-12-2019, 05:01 PM
Im from United States and I am lactase tolerant but I meet a lot of Latin Americans and the grand part of the Latin Americans are intolerant

halfalp
02-25-2019, 09:50 PM
So if on MCM6 / rs182549 i have C/T does that mean that i can digest Lactose?

tipirneni
02-25-2019, 10:25 PM
So if on MCM6 / rs182549 i have C/T does that mean that i can digest Lactose?

http://biologiaevolutiva.org/dcomas/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Enattah2008.pdf says you are partly tolerant & can digest

halfalp
02-26-2019, 07:37 AM
I can't really digest milk tho.

tipirneni
02-26-2019, 05:19 PM
I can't really digest milk tho.

Check all the SNPs listed. may be you have something not compatible combination in the MDM6 snps

halfalp
02-26-2019, 07:24 PM
Check all the SNPs listed. may be you have something not compatible combination in the MDM6 snps

Yes but it's probably not about genetic, because i drinked milk all my childhood, but about something in my adult era.

Ruderico
02-26-2019, 07:28 PM
Yes but it's probably not about genetic, because i drinked milk all my childhood, but about something in my adult era.

All children are able to digest milk, it's adults who lose the ability - I've read about people suddenly being unable to digest milk after their 50s. Your case seems like classic lactose intolerance

halfalp
02-27-2019, 08:07 AM
All children are able to digest milk, it's adults who lose the ability - I've read about people suddenly being unable to digest milk after their 50s. Your case seems like classic lactose intolerance

No i'm neither Lactose or Gluten intolerant ( after medical tests ) but i can't barely digest any anymore. I think it's because alcohol or food abuse wich attacked like my Intestine Wall or something, i know my Colon have inflammation, but it's not linked with any hard deceases like Crohn. I used until 18 years old, always eat at noon, just a few bread slices soaked into hot chocolate milk and i was fine. Good ole days :(