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vettor
05-18-2016, 06:50 PM
I was viewing the T ydna tree in Yfull and wanting to know the accuracy of the dates.......as per below ( red )

T-CTS54 ..CTS54 * Z19896 * Z19926+23 SNPsformed 6400 ybp, TMRCA 2800 ybpinfo

T-CTS54*
id:NA20758TSI
T-CTS8489 ..CTS10538 * CTS8489 * CTS9984+3 SNPsformed 2800 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybpinfo
T-CTS8489*
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS
T-Y17493.. Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPsformed 2200 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo
id:YF04232
id:YF04203USA [US-NC]

now, ybp = the year 1950, so
1950 - 375 = 1575AD
since T-Y17493 are only people from the USA and we know europeans first settled in USA ~1600 then is not this TMRCA for this SNP in error. ?

I imagine T-Y17493 was only created in the USA as no other areas that I know of in the world has it.

BYW.....as per Yfull, the oldest T ydna in the Arabian peninsula is only from 550AD ..................that is an eye-opener

gotten
05-18-2016, 07:44 PM
95% confidence interval is from 850 to 150 ybp so it is consistent with a common ancestor living in the USA. But then again, you can't exclude a common ancestor back in the "original" (pre-migration/colonization) region either based on the confidence interval.

Edit: Let me add to that that the TMRCA estimate is based on the listed kits that are positive for a certain mutation. If you have a US-biased testing community you can end up with too low true TMRCAs. A kit from somewhere else in the world can completely change the TMRCA.

vettor
08-03-2016, 07:05 AM
I see that the site semargl

is now using Yfull notations

I am

T1a2 L131>Y6033/L446>CTS933>CTS11984>CTS8862+ Europe

are they the same people?

vettor
08-27-2016, 06:27 PM
A branch of mine recently placed in yfull from Sardinia

T-CTS8489CTS10538 * CTS8489 * CTS9984+3 SNPsformed 2800 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybpinfo

T-CTS8489*
id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]new
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS

ArmandoR1b
08-28-2016, 12:51 PM
I see that the site semargl

is now using Yfull notations

I am

T1a2 L131>Y6033/L446>CTS933>CTS11984>CTS8862+ Europe

are they the same people?

As I had explained in another thread they have a person from Semargl on the YFull team


(aka Semargl): active participant of the DNA genealogical community, the DNA database "semargl.me" developer, FTDNA group administrator and co-administrator, developer of the Z-series SNPs (for R1a, I, J2b), developer of the Y-series SNPs (for R1a, J2b, R2a, Q, O etc).
http://www.isogg.org/wiki/YFull

ArmandoR1b
08-28-2016, 12:58 PM
A branch of mine recently placed in yfull from Sardinia

T-CTS8489CTS10538 * CTS8489 * CTS9984+3 SNPsformed 2800 ybp, TMRCA 2200 ybpinfo

T-CTS8489*
id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]new
id:HG01051PUR
id:HG01530IBS

I had also explained two weeks ago in another thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8187-The-Insoluble-Dilemma-of-Commercial-Haplogroup-Predictors-used-by-FTDNA-Genographic&p=179413&viewfull=1#post179413) that id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]new is from Cagliari.

vettor
08-28-2016, 05:58 PM
I had also explained two weeks ago in another thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8187-The-Insoluble-Dilemma-of-Commercial-Haplogroup-Predictors-used-by-FTDNA-Genographic&p=179413&viewfull=1#post179413) that id:ERS256892ITA [IT-CA]new is from Cagliari.

yes you did, so what are you trying to say?

That this sardinian is incorrectly placed on the tree?

vettor
10-12-2016, 05:35 PM
I have purchased a Big Y ( ready in early December )..............I was wondering if the ftdna project people initiate my data to go to Yfull or is that my decision only ( I know I pay yfull at the end ). or ?


On a side note:
I recently discovered that the person in the link below sits next to me in a group of only 3 people in the ftdna project
http://leefamily.biz/my-dna/

we share very similar markers ( maybe we are over 1000 years apart )
His ancestors are part of the Drakes of Plymouth and also the Jamison family ( which was noted in past Faux papers as Vikings from Iceland IIRC )

lgmayka
10-12-2016, 07:36 PM
I have purchased a Big Y ( ready in early December )..............I was wondering if the ftdna project people initiate my data to go to Yfull or is that my decision only ( I know I pay yfull at the end ). or ?
Only you, or someone to whom you have given your password, can access your BAM file. Project administrators cannot.

vettor
10-21-2016, 05:01 AM
I have purchased a Big Y ( ready in early December )..............I was wondering if the ftdna project people initiate my data to go to Yfull or is that my decision only ( I know I pay yfull at the end ). or ?


On a side note:
I recently discovered that the person in the link below sits next to me in a group of only 3 people in the ftdna project
http://leefamily.biz/my-dna/

we share very similar markers ( maybe we are over 1000 years apart )
His ancestors are part of the Drakes of Plymouth and also the Jamison family ( which was noted in past Faux papers as Vikings from Iceland IIRC )

I received my big y results....... I am z19945.......same as a French person.
We seem to have the same Ancestor from about, 100bc to 100ad

Ft DNA did the results in about 3 weeks......is that too quick?

vettor
10-21-2016, 09:57 PM
I received my big y results....... I am z19945.......same as a French person.
We seem to have the same Ancestor from about, 100bc to 100ad

Ft DNA did the results in about 3 weeks......is that too quick?
I also match a puert rican which might mean from Spain.
I have very poor Iberian numbers both from ftdna my origins and every other testing program.
I have more French/German/alpine at 47percent than ant south European number.
I can only think that this Puerto Rican must be southern French or even Genoese than Spanish.
Also as my t marker is rarely found in southern Spain I see an issue with this prican ancestry

Principe
10-22-2016, 12:39 AM
I also match a puert rican which might mean from Spain.
I have very poor Iberian numbers both from ftdna my origins and every other testing program.
I have more French/German/alpine at 47percent than ant south European number.
I can only think that this Puerto Rican must be southern French or even Genoese than Spanish.
Also as my t marker is rarely found in southern Spain I see an issue with this prican ancestry

Vettor, dont worry that is not too quick they did mine in 5 weeks, transfer your results to Yfull, they will place you in your proper line, Y-Dna only takes up 2% of your dna, so even if you match a Puerto Rican (he would be Spanish origin) it doesnt really reflect your autosomal only 2%, do you have Southern European or Asia Minor? You 3 could have shared an ancestor living in the Mediterranean around that time frame 100 AD- 100BC like the TMRCA suggests his line ended up in Spain and you and the French match ended up in central Europe, yours went to Northern Italy and the other to France.

ArmandoR1b
10-26-2016, 06:51 PM
I received my big y results....... I am z19945.......same as a French person.
We seem to have the same Ancestor from about, 100bc to 100ad

Ft DNA did the results in about 3 weeks......is that too quick?

Have you and the French person sent your BAM file to YFull to have it analyzed? They might find more or less SNPs in common that FTDNA was not able to find if both of you do it. The FTDNA site does an extremely poor job in the matching and determining which novel SNPs downstream of a specific SNP are really shared.

vettor
10-26-2016, 08:17 PM
Have you and the French person sent your BAM file to YFull to have it analyzed? They might find more or less SNPs in common that FTDNA was not able to find if both of you do it. The FTDNA site does an extremely poor job in the matching and determining which novel SNPs downstream of a specific SNP are really shared.

I have requested my Bam from Ftdna today...............the french person ...Francois Bernot ~17th century has already done his YFULL

Gareth from T project basically said this to me via email

I am writing to both of you to let you know that you have a shared SNP - Z19945 (8397337 C to T) - which is not (yet) shared by anyone else in the Haplogroup T Project.The two Scottish-Irish members who are in your matches lists do not appear to share this SNP. Their branch T-Y17493 is a separate branch of T-CTS8662.

As this is your only shared SNP below CTS8862 it doesn't make you close relatives - your common ancestor probably lived around 100 BC - 100 AD. I have put you together in a new project group Gamma-1.1-D but it may be that as more T-Z19945 lines the group will be split.

I expect your designation will be updated when the next version of the tree is released.

Bernot is YF07168 on YFull?


Note: CTS8862 in ftdna is equal to yFull CTS8489

GarethH
11-06-2016, 08:45 PM
I have requested my Bam from Ftdna today...............the french person ...Francois Bernot ~17th century has already done his YFULL

Gareth from T project basically said this to me via email

I am writing to both of you to let you know that you have a shared SNP - Z19945 (8397337 C to T) - which is not (yet) shared by anyone else in the Haplogroup T Project.The two Scottish-Irish members who are in your matches lists do not appear to share this SNP. Their branch T-Y17493 is a separate branch of T-CTS8662.

As this is your only shared SNP below CTS8862 it doesn't make you close relatives - your common ancestor probably lived around 100 BC - 100 AD. I have put you together in a new project group Gamma-1.1-D but it may be that as more T-Z19945 lines the group will be split.

I expect your designation will be updated when the next version of the tree is released.

Bernot is YF07168 on YFull?


Note: CTS8862 in ftdna is equal to yFull CTS8489

Vettor, YFull has updated its tree and Z19945 has been added (the only new branch for T this time). The age estimate is 2,600 years before present i.e. 400 BC. The ages of CTS8862 and CTS54 have been pushed back in time by the results for YF07168.
Note that YFull show CTS1848 as equivalent to Z19945. You are negative for this SNP but it is recurrent and possibly unreliable.

vettor
11-07-2016, 05:15 PM
Vettor, YFull has updated its tree and Z19945 has been added (the only new branch for T this time). The age estimate is 2,600 years before present i.e. 400 BC. The ages of CTS8862 and CTS54 have been pushed back in time by the results for YF07168.
Note that YFull show CTS1848 as equivalent to Z19945. You are negative for this SNP but it is recurrent and possibly unreliable.

Thanks
YF07168 wrote to me yesterday and stated
he is from - the ancient region of Thiérage, which in those days was partly in France (County of Vermandois) and partly in the Spanish Netherlands (County of Hainaut)

he also stated he is positive for CTS1848 ................I know you said this SNP is unreliable, but could this SNP be the initial split between myself and Ed?

vettor
11-19-2016, 10:54 PM
My yfull data is currently being analysed , yet since it started 4 days ago, the completion date is being put back every day .......so, it was to be completed on the 12 December, then went to 18th , then 20th and now 21st ........is this normal ?

also stated is that my STR will be complete in July 2017 :\ ...........7 months time!

vettor
11-23-2016, 08:34 PM
My yfull tests are being put further back .
I currently sit under T-CTS8489

vettor
12-19-2016, 06:47 AM
I just got my results for Yfull

I have a question

Novel SNPs (49)

• Best qual (20)
• Acceptable qual (8)
Ambiguous qual (20)
Low qual (0)
One reading! (0)
• INDELs (1)

What does INDEL represent in the Novel SNP section?

Afshar
12-19-2016, 07:28 AM
I just got my results for Yfull

I have a question

Novel SNPs (49)

• Best qual (20)
• Acceptable qual (8)
Ambiguous qual (20)
Low qual (0)
One reading! (0)
• INDELs (1)

What does INDEL represent in the Novel SNP section?

INsertions/DELetions

vettor
12-21-2016, 06:33 PM
INsertions/DELetions

Thanks

How does one contact the yfull team to ask questions? .............I do not know what their recipient username is ( let alone my username )

vettor
12-25-2016, 05:11 PM
My Yfull is done except for the STR ( which is due February 2017 )

results are

Y-Haplogroup: T-CTS8489
Hg variants: T-CTS8489*, T-Z19945
Terminal SNPs: CTS10538 • CTS8489 • CTS8862 • CTS9984 • Y26649 • Z19944 • Z19951 • Z19953
* Based on YFull YTree v4.10

There is a Z19945 branch in Yfull with positive CTS1848

I have Z19945 as positive , but CTS1848 as negative

I assume when the new tree comes out , I should be a branch off the Z19945 group ...................would this thinking be correct?

There are only 2 of us with Z19945 in the entire T project..............a French person whose ancestors are from Lorraine/Champagne and myself whose ancestors are from Veneto and south-tyrol in Italy.................would the negative CTS1848 indicate that my line is younger than his line with the positive CTS1848

MfA
12-27-2016, 12:06 PM
My yfull data is currently being analysed , yet since it started 4 days ago, the completion date is being put back every day .......so, it was to be completed on the 12 December, then went to 18th , then 20th and now 21st ........is this normal ?

also stated is that my STR will be complete in July 2017 :\ ...........7 months time!

Have you tried this tool, you can also read your STR values using it. It's pretty straight forward to use. http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/bam-analysis-kit.html

vettor
12-27-2016, 06:07 PM
Have you tried this tool, you can also read your STR values using it. It's pretty straight forward to use. http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/bam-analysis-kit.html

No, I have not tried it .................how does it work?

Thanks for link


All I see from Yfull, is that they have still not finished ..........the yreport now only has one negative SNP ( L445) for me and many "neutral" ones.

the "my news " section indicates that my data has changed 5 areas of the T tree

and other information

MfA
12-27-2016, 06:16 PM
No, I have not tried it .................how does it work?

Thanks for link

It's pretty straightforward. You select your unzipped bam file, and tick only Y chr below along with calculate y-str setting and hit "Start Analysis". Depending on your PC's CPU power it should be done in a while. You can then find your str results in "out" folder in the main folder.

https://abload.de/img/bamfaoksvs.png

vettor
12-27-2016, 06:41 PM
It's pretty straightforward. You select your unzipped bam file, and tick only Y chr below along with calculate y-str setting and hit "Start Analysis". Depending on your PC's CPU power it should be done in a while. You can then find your str results in "out" folder in the main folder.

https://abload.de/img/bamfaoksvs.png

Thanks again

haha.......my PC is 6 years old ..........when I retire in the next one or two years, is when I will upgrade it.

Thanks for reputation ..........I do not have facebook so do not know what you said.
I actually do not know what the reputation is for in this site.

All the best

vettor
01-04-2017, 08:14 PM
Under the new yfull v 5 tree ............i have been changed to

T-CTS8489 CTS10538 * CTS8489 * Z19953+5 SNPs formed 3700 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
id:ERS256892 ITA [IT-CA]
T-CTS8489*

T-Y17493Y17497 * Y17499 * Y17500+11 SNPs formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 375 ybpinfo
id:YF04232
id:YF04203 USA [US-NC]

T-Z19945 Z19945 formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 3100 ybpinfo
T-Z19945*
id:YF07608 ITA [IT-TV]

T-CTS1848 CTS1848 formed 3100 ybp, TMRCA 2500 ybpinfo
id:YF07168 BEL
id:HG01051 PUR
id:HG01530 IBS

plus they added another 500 years on the TMRCA .....................if I calculate this correctly it should mean [B]1150BC bronze age collapse , sea peoples !.....and oldest Venetic people in Italy are dated at 1155BC by archaeology ...lol

my negative CTS1848 with positive Z19945 makes me older by 600 years over the BEL person who has CTS1848 positive as well as Z19945 positive
- negative SNP indicate = older than positive ??......puzzling

vettor
01-17-2017, 05:31 PM
Looking at some of my STR in Yfull, I checked on the important DYS390 which for my branch has the number 22 . .............Over 95% of all T-L446 who have DYS390=22 are only of European stock. The other sit around the south caucasus or originated from there.

Yfull states that I changed from number 23 to number 22 at 6300years ago ..............I am still #22 today

What is the norm in time period for changes for DYS390 ?

vettor
01-25-2017, 06:41 AM
I do not fully understand the STR variants in YFull

I have these ........just to indicate the first few that appear in ftdna order ( the not listed in the top 12 never changed/or ? )

changed in haplogroup ............A1 [Alleles frequencies] DYS393 [Mutation rate] 12 → 13 ..............13 is my current number

T-CTS54 [Alleles frequencies] DYS390 [Mutation rate] 23 → 22

T-L131 [Alleles frequencies] DYS19 [Mutation rate] 15 → 13

A1b [Alleles frequencies] DYS391 [Mutation rate] 11 → 10

BT [Alleles frequencies] DYS426 [Mutation rate] 12 → 11

T-L206 [Alleles frequencies] DYS439 [Mutation rate] 12 → 11

K [Alleles frequencies] DYS392 [Mutation rate] 11 → 13



These above too me, indicate that my STR changed early on ....and the last change of this group was under CTS54 ~4368byp ................is this the correct way to read these STR mutations?

vettor
04-15-2017, 06:37 PM
I finally got my STR from yFull and only have 3 distant matches, a east-french person, an Irish person ( ancestry was initially Hessian, Germany ) and an unknown

I have queries on DYS385.1 = 13 and DYS385.2 = 15 as ftdna gave me 13-13

and my private mutations with 4 or 5 stars
HG/SAMPLES STRs Detected Mutation rate ANC DER
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS613 [Mutation rate] 8 → 8.a
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS435 [Mutation rate] 11 → 12 ..................this seems the most important
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS618 [Mutation rate] 13 → 12
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS434 [Mutation rate] 8 → 9
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYR10 [Mutation rate] 10 → 11
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS588 [Mutation rate] 14 → 13
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS638 [Mutation rate] 12 → 11
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYR14 [Mutation rate] 12 → 11


I understand that STR are only valuable within the same haplogroup

GarethH
04-17-2017, 04:11 PM
I finally got my STR from yFull and only have 3 distant matches, a east-french person, an Irish person ( ancestry was initially Hessian, Germany ) and an unknown

I have queries on DYS385.1 = 13 and DYS385.2 = 15 as ftdna gave me 13-13

and my private mutations with 4 or 5 stars
HG/SAMPLES STRs Detected Mutation rate ANC DER
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS613 [Mutation rate] 8 → 8.a
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS435 [Mutation rate] 11 → 12 ..................this seems the most important
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS618 [Mutation rate] 13 → 12
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS434 [Mutation rate] 8 → 9
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYR10 [Mutation rate] 10 → 11
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS588 [Mutation rate] 14 → 13
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYS638 [Mutation rate] 12 → 11
− private mutation [Alleles frequencies] DYR14 [Mutation rate] 12 → 11


I understand that STR are only valuable within the same haplogroup

Several branches of T-CTS11984 have three copies of DYS385 instead of the usual two. FTDNA has an advanced test called DYS385a/b(K) - the K is for Kittler, the geneticist who first published results based on distinguishing the two palindrome arms on which the usual two copies sit. As well as separating the different variants it can detect extra copies more reliably than the standard test.

vettor
05-15-2017, 06:29 PM
In my Yfull data , I only have one confirmed negative SNP in the thousands which are listed.....my question is ....does Yfull not list these negative SNP ?

vettor
07-05-2017, 06:21 PM
russian site semargyl .............I think it is the yfull team or part of the team that run this site

My snp of CTS8862 and Z19945

https://s24.postimg.org/ou1o6onh1/cts8862_z19945.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/q938veok1/)

All of italy markers represent 1 person per 1 place ( one italian from he heal part , place called Foggia , states from ancient Daunians people )

Germany = 4 people ...........with 5 digit ID eg. 96359 ( what testing company uses this ? )

Belgium = 3 people ( same family)

Macedonia = 1 but origins are in Russia ( place called Erzya ), attached with russian marked spot

all the americas represent 1 person per 1 place

Ireland = 3 people

england = 1 person per 1 place

vettor
09-03-2017, 05:41 PM
https://s20.postimg.org/dupg0akjh/my_new_plot.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/q9c80mc1l/)

Plotting myself from Semargyl site which is run by the yfull team

Note all are T1a2 branch except the others noted as T1a1

Names of countries are from the kit owner

vettor
09-11-2017, 06:17 PM
More Germans and another belgium which has my snp Z19945

https://s20.postimg.org/bpynfyxrx/z19945_german.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

unsure if the 5 digit kit number is from nat-geno ................if so , then this is more proof on nat-geno statment that T ydna is between 10 and 24% in South germany

with the above all being postive for CTS1848 and myself being negative for it, then I sit in the T ydna below

https://s20.postimg.org/cnlnpujjx/t_tree.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/fug79h3zt/)

as T1a2a1a1a2b

vettor
10-21-2017, 05:17 PM
experimenting with the main negative first SNP of a branch , then a positive SNP, then a main negative etc etc............... as per Yfull "formed" age with samples from Yfull and ftdna

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12230-Big-Y-changes&p=299413&viewfull=1#post299413

I get this order for my known marker, T1a2-Z19945 ( 3400ybp)

oldest to youngest in SNP trail
1 - Central Germany 6800 ybp

2 - Ireland and Bulgaria 3700 ybp

3 - eastern and central Alps 3400 ybp

4 - Belgium 3100 ybp

5 - northern Spain , similar to Belgium at 3100 ybp

vettor
11-02-2017, 05:13 PM
After a year of having joined yfull .........I went from zero matches to 6 matches ( is this to do with Hg38 ?)

the, matches from Belgium/east French, Hessian Germany, Scottish and galician/spain , I have already contacted and spoke to , missing are the tyrolese Italian and another german ( south german )

Things are looking up :)

vettor
12-04-2017, 06:07 PM
in Yfull , I have the following under ambigous,

L49.1 • L49.2 • PF6276 • S349 • L49 • M12188 • S349.1 R1b1a2a

what does this refer to ?