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pantheratigris
05-26-2016, 01:01 AM
I am south asian by ethnicity but 23andme indicates my Y-haplogroup as J1, which came as a surprise to me since I do not have any known middle eastern ancestors. I am new to this, but my question is that does J1 predate the arrival of islam in south Asia?

Agamemnon
05-26-2016, 01:13 AM
Are you J1e or just J1? And yes, technically-speaking it's quite likely that J1 predates the arrival of Islam in South Asia.

pantheratigris
05-26-2016, 01:25 AM
Thank you Agamemnon. I only got a J1 estimate with no further information about sub divisions. I looked at where it is more frequent and it appears to peak in Caucasus and in Yemen with a little bit of NorthWestern part of the Indian subcontinent along the Indian Ocean coast, where my ancestors were from.

ADW_1981
05-26-2016, 01:32 AM
I'm not sure if the later 23andMe chips report J1e or just J1.

Agamemnon
05-26-2016, 01:34 AM
OK, go to "Browse Raw Data" and search the following SNP: rs34043621

If you get a "no call", you could still be P58+ (J1e).

pantheratigris
05-26-2016, 01:43 AM
I searched for that SNP and got a result. Could you help me understand what that means?

Agamemnon
05-26-2016, 01:45 AM
I searched for that SNP and got a result. Could you help me understand what that means?

Sure, just tell me the result.

pantheratigris
05-26-2016, 01:48 AM
Genes: ARSDP1
Marker (SNP): rs34043621
Genomic Position: 14486667
Variants: C or T
Your Genotype: T

Agamemnon
05-26-2016, 02:18 AM
You're definitely P58-, that's for sure. I'm asking because we had an Indian member here who carried a relatively basal branch of P58 (ZS3668). P58's TMRCA is about 10,000 years old so despite comprising an overwhelming majority of SW Asian J1, it really doesn't mean much by itself. I've just checked the J1 project and I noticed that we have an Indian -from Gujarat- and a Pakistani -Balochi- sample under F1614 (TMRCA ~14 kya old), this is intriguing since F1614 is a branch of F4306, Satsurblia (the 13,500 year-old Epigravettian hunter-gatherer from Georgia) was FGC42175 which is another branch of F4306. At first glance, this suggests that J1 was present in South Asia during the Neolithic at the very least, if not earlier than that, and this is seemingly consistent with the high CHG scores in NW India and Pakistan. On the other hand, the Indian individual seems to share a common ancestor with two Omani samples roughly a thousand years ago, it isn't exactly clear where this common ancestor came from so this individual's paternal ancestors potentially could've come from SW Asia (alternatively, the Omani individuals' paternal ancestors might've come from South Asia).

Either way, I think it's pretty safe to conclude that your ancestors were in India thousands of years before Islam even existed... We just can't be entirely sure for the time being. 23andMe uses ISOGG's 2009 haplotree, needless to say it's seriously outdated, I can only encourage you to test with FTDNA if you want to learn more, that would really shed light on your paternal line's origins.

pantheratigris
05-26-2016, 02:44 AM
Thank you for the useful information Agamemnon. My ancestors were from Sindh which is now in modern day Pakistan. In your opinion is there any more information that I can get from the 23andme data without further testing for now?

J1 DYS388=13
05-26-2016, 03:39 AM
See if you have results for i4000111 (M365). G would indicate M365+.

pantheratigris
05-26-2016, 11:48 AM
Hi J1 DYS388=13, I searched for that marker but nothing was found.

J1 DYS388=13
05-26-2016, 12:41 PM
When you get your SNP results, look at this experimental J1 tree made from BigY results. http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree

You will match some SNP above and to the right of P58, for which you are negative.

RCO
05-26-2016, 05:45 PM
We have HG03767 PJL - Punjabi in Lahore - Pakistan (Thousand Genomes Project). He is positive to Z2215 and negative to Z2217/Z1828

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2215*/

J1 tree
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J1/

Agamemnon
05-26-2016, 07:09 PM
Thank you for the useful information Agamemnon. My ancestors were from Sindh which is now in modern day Pakistan. In your opinion is there any more information that I can get from the 23andme data without further testing for now?

Like I said, I can only encourage you to test with FTDNA for the time being, if you do so be sure to join the J1 project once you get your results. That would be the best way of uncovering the origins of your paternal lineage.

The more I see results like yours, the more I tend to think they ultimately narrow down J1's cradle to the Iranian plateau or the Pleistocene Gulf Oasis (or both). It would only make sense that J1 has a long history throughout the Central Asian corridor and in South Asia, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if we found J1 in Mehrgarh, Rakhigarhi and other pre/early-IVC sites.

pantheratigris
09-13-2016, 02:25 PM
11598
Hello. I managed to compare my Y-SNPs (whatever was tested by 23andme) with the 2016 ISOGG Y-tree and this is what I found. So from the image it means that P58 or P56 and all of their downstream subclades are negative? So by deduction this leaves only J-Z2215, M365, L136, Z1828, Z1842 as the remaining options. Is this correct ?

Pegasusphm1
12-16-2016, 06:51 PM
Like I said, I can only encourage you to test with FTDNA for the time being, if you do so be sure to join the J1 project once you get your results. That would be the best way of uncovering the origins of your paternal lineage.

The more I see results like yours, the more I tend to think they ultimately narrow down J1's cradle to the Iranian plateau or the Pleistocene Gulf Oasis (or both). It would only make sense that J1 has a long history throughout the Central Asian corridor and in South Asia, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if we found J1 in Mehrgarh, Rakhigarhi and other pre/early-IVC sites.

You know I had a similar question with 23andMe results I just received last evening. J-M267 with 0% Middle-East.

Ancestry had 3% ME, 3% Asia Minor, with FTDNA 12% Asia Minor Levant, also tested Y67 and SNPs, with my subclade J-PF4872 from Bari Italy. Agamemnon, you might remember me from the J1 Italian thread. J1 Project - 145-01. J-PF4869 Cluster C2 [DYS568=10, DYS19=15] kit B41840.

Gurni
03-07-2017, 09:52 PM
Well it doesnt necessarily mean that you have any recent Middle eastern ancestry, one way to get a clue if you might have any recent Middle eastern ancestry is to look at your relatives and you autosomal DNA.

Yaroslav
05-27-2017, 09:34 AM
Hope pantheratigris will order the FTDNA test since 23&me says almost nothing concerning Y-haplogroup results.

I am J1a3a-Z1842>ZS3114. We have got several results from the Southern Asia:

1. id:ERR445281 from the Simon base. It is known he is from India and his language is Hindi.


ERR445281
Sex male
Age 62 Years
Country of Birth India
Religion Hindu
Language Hindi

https://yfull.com/tree/J-ZS3114/

2. Kit# 242114 from Afghanistan in the J1 FTDNA Project is predicted as J-ZS3114 by his 67 STRs.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-M267/default.aspx?section=yresults

3. Kit# 564154 from Pakistan (if I am not wrong) in the J1 FTDNA Project has got 8 steps distance at 37 markers from 242114 from Afghanistan. I think he is from the same branch too.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-M267/default.aspx?section=yresults

4. QDNTD Singh from the YSearch base who lives in Brazil has got 13 steps distance at 67 markers from 242114 from Afghanistan. Looks like ZS3114 too.

http://www.ysearch.org/search_view.asp?uid=GNZ9N&viewuid=QDNTD&p=0