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rock hunter
05-28-2016, 05:22 AM
Robert the Bruce Unique genetic marker found for Scottish king's great grandson

Researchers in Glasgow have identified a genetic marker that is unique to the male line of those descended from King Robert III of Scotland
Robert III ruled 1390-1406 and was the great grandson of Robert the Bruce
Geneticists have found a Scottish businessman who is a direct descendant


Robert the Bruce is one of the most famous kings of Scotland, known for his resilient tendencies and encounters with spiders.

Now researchers have found a Scottish businessman is the direct living descendant of one of the popular king's great, great grandsons.

The scientists have identified a genetic marker that is unique to those who are descended from King Robert III of Scotland, whose was Robert the Bruce's great grandson.
The tests found he carried a distinct genetic marker that has not been found in any of the descendants of Robert III's brothers.

This is particularly significant as it means that anyone who carries this marker is also descended from Robert III and, in turn, his great grandfather Robert the Bruce.

Robert the Bruce was crowned King of Scotland in 1306, and went on to try and free his country from English rule.

His eldest daughter Marjorie married Walter Stewart, one of Robert the Bruce's commanders and High Steward of Scotland.

Their eldest son went on to become Robert II and established the Stewart line of kings, who would later inherit the throne of both England and Scotland, uniting the two countries.

The researchers say the genetic marker they have found appears to be unique to the family line of Robert II's son, Robert III.

'The marker is not found in descendants of the king's brothers, showing that a mutation in the DNA occurred in either Robert III himself or one of his descendants,' said Graham Holton, principal tutor with the programme.

'It is not yet known in which generation this took place but we are delighted to have been able to confirm Archie Shaw Stewart's place in medieval royal lineage, and acknowledge his contribution to furthering research into the branches of the Stewarts.'

Mr Shaw Stewart, who runs Scottish electronics company Pan Controls, said: 'This is wonderful to be able to discriminate with a high level of confidence between some branches of families by the ability to trace genetic mutations.

'My great uncle, Patrick Shaw Stewart, produced an extensive family tree over 100 years ago, extending back to Robert III.

'He would be very satisfied to see this part of it Stewart - verified by new technology.'
Donald Stewart, a retired mechanical engineering draughtsman from Lanark, who also carries the marker, said: 'I turned to DNA testing when my genealogy research ran out of documentation and I hit a brick wall.

'My brick wall was John Stewart, tenant farmer on the Duke of Argyll's estate at High Park, Kintyre, from 1710.

'This discovery, without doubt, confirms tradition and links my High Park family to King Robert III. It has been so worthwhile.'
HOW THE MARKER WAS FOUND

DNA tests undertaken as part of a study led by the University of Strathclyde, proved a businessman named Archie Shaw Stewart is in the family line of King Robert III, who reigned from 1390 until his death in 1406.

Mr Shaw Stewart was confirmed as a descendant and was also found to be a carrier of a distinct genetic marker, which had not been found in descendants of Robert III's brothers.

This is particularly significant as it means that anyone who carries this marker is also descended from Robert III and, in turn, his great grandfather Robert the Bruce.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3612966/Are-descendant-Robert-Bruce-Unique-genetic-marker-Scottish-king-s-great-

rms2
05-28-2016, 03:36 PM
It appears they are talking about descent from Robert the Bruce's eldest daughter Marjorie, but then they switch over to Royal Stewart y-dna, since Marjorie married Walter Stewart, and the actual "unique genetic marker" is L746, which characterizes a subclade of DF41, like this: P312>L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41>S775>L746. So, it's a bit confusing, because that "unique genetic marker" does not actually come from Robert the Bruce but rather from the Stewarts.

Stewart Y-DNA (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/genetic-ancestry/guff_pages/guff_documents/Stewart_DNA.pdf)

The article at the link above goes into detail about the line of Sir John Stewart of Bonkyll, who was Walter Stewart's paternal uncle. That line has its own SNP, S781, in addition to L746.

Jean M
05-28-2016, 03:51 PM
The story has already been reported over here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7316-Businessman-s-DNA-link-to-medieval-king-revealed

One source says the marker in question is ZZ52.

rms2
05-28-2016, 04:10 PM
The story has already been reported over here: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7316-Businessman-s-DNA-link-to-medieval-king-revealed

One source says the marker in question is ZZ52.

Apparently that's a new y-dna SNP downstream of L746 and on the S781- line that descends from Robert III or one of his descendants. It's still Stewart y-dna, and the line's descent from Robert the Bruce comes via his daughter Marjorie.

rms2
05-28-2016, 04:20 PM
Here's another little article on ZZ52 from The Stewart Society.

http://www.stewartsociety.org/



Marker for male line descendants of King Robert III (1337-1406):
The results of the Big Y test for a documented male line descendant of Sir John Stewart of Blackhall & Ardgowan, d. c.1412, an illegitimate son of King Robert III, have now been received and analysed. Alex Williamson, author of The Big Tree http://www.ytree.net/ has identified a new SNP carried by this individual, which has been given the name ZZ52. Our two other Big Y test results, that is one for Earl Castle Stewart, a descendant of Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany, and the other for a documented descendant of Sir John Stewart, Sheriff of Bute, do not carry this SNP. Robert Stewart, Duke of Albany, and Sir John Stewart, Sheriff of Bute are both brothers of King Robert III. This means that ZZ52 must have occurred in Robert III or one of his male line descendants. In other words, ZZ52 is a distinct marker identifying descendants of Robert III.


So, evidently the SNPs for that line go P312>L21>DF13>Z39589>DF41>S775>L746>Z38845>ZZ52. DF41 Big Tree (http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=7)

If you scroll to the right a few inches, you'll see the really important part of the DF41 Tree. ;)

9501

MikeWhalen
05-28-2016, 06:08 PM
thanks for taking that up rms2
when I read the OP, my first impression was confusion, they either wrote it very poorly or are plain wrong!

this is not the story of Robert the Bruce, but that of his son in law, Walter Stewart and eventually King Robert III, who was not a direct y line descendant of the Bruce, but rather, the y line grandson of Stewart whose royal legitimacy comes from the Bruce's daughter Marjorie.

whew

Mike

Saetro
05-29-2016, 10:49 PM
A Breton line then, rather than a Norman or Flemish one (opinion divided on Bruce).

Resasi
05-31-2016, 09:37 AM
How likely is it that people with family tree connections to Walter High Steward/Robert would be able to get DNA testing done to confirm a link?

A number of family trees were produced by members of varying detail, two of which go back that far. It would be interesting to see if their accuracy could be in some way confirmed

rms2
05-31-2016, 11:13 AM
How likely is it that people with family tree connections to Walter High Steward/Robert would be able to get DNA testing done to confirm a link?

A number of family trees were produced by members of varying detail, two of which go back that far. It would be interesting to see if their accuracy could be in some way confirmed

Pretty likely, apparently, since y-dna testing of various individual males whose only known relationship is the paper trails they have to royal Stewart ancestors has produced the same results.

As I recall, this began a few years ago with the y-dna testing by ScotlandsDNA of Richard Scott, the 10th Duke of Buccleuch, a y-line descendant of Charles II. The Duke matched another Stewart who is the y-line descendant of Charles Stewart of Ardshiel, who fought at the Battle of Culloden. Other Stewart matches followed, and the then-terminal SNP L746 downstream of S775 and DF41 was discovered. Since then, S781 was discovered in the y-dna line of Sir John Stewart of Bonkyll and now ZZ52 in the y-dna line of King Robert III.

If the paper trails were entirely faulty, these Stewart men would not be matching each other and displaying the same string of y-dna SNPs.

idextrus
04-13-2017, 04:07 PM
Hello all,

I just had my DNA tested via YSEQ.net and I'm not sure how to interpret the results. I did it to see if I have the marker that would identify me as a descendent of Robert The Bruce. Here is what I have:

15226

Can someone help?

Thanks! Chris

rms2
04-13-2017, 05:07 PM
Hello all,

I just had my DNA tested via YSEQ.net and I'm not sure how to interpret the results. I did it to see if I have the marker that would identify me as a descendent of Robert The Bruce. Here is what I have:

15226

Can someone help?

Thanks! Chris

You could be a descendant of Robert the Bruce, but I don't think anyone knows what his y haplogroup was. The subject of this thread is really Royal Stewart y-dna, and that line's descent from Robert the Bruce comes via his daughter Marjorie.

You are negative for the Stewart line's L746.

MacUalraig
04-13-2017, 05:08 PM
Hello all,

I just had my DNA tested via YSEQ.net and I'm not sure how to interpret the results. I did it to see if I have the marker that would identify me as a descendent of Robert The Bruce. Here is what I have:

15226

Can someone help?

Thanks! Chris

You are negative for all the markers in the screenshot (3 different positions).

jamie007
04-18-2017, 11:55 PM
Thank you all in advance for your time and help.

Chris is my cousin (our fathers are first cousins) and we are attempting to determine lineage to Robert the Bruce.

Although I am a microbiologist and worked in research labs for many years ago, I am only vaguely familiar with the emerging scientific crossroads in genetic genealogy and need help interpreting our family's results and filling in the gaps of my understanding.

You mentioned in your reply that Chris is negative for the markers.
Would that be from reading the allele column (C- and A-?)

If I understand correctly L746 is a SNP from Stewart lineage as mentioned by another user.
But what are the other markers?
Also, which gene are these alleles?

Again, thank you for your time and help!

Jamie

jamie007
04-18-2017, 11:58 PM
Thank you all in advance for your time and help.

Chris is my cousin (our fathers are first cousins) and we are attempting to determine lineage to Robert the Bruce.

Although I am a microbiologist and worked in research labs for many years ago, I am only vaguely familiar with the emerging scientific crossroads in genetic genealogy and need help interpreting our family's results and filling in the gaps of my understanding.

You mentioned in your reply that Chris is negative for the markers.
Would that be from reading the allele column (C- and A-?)

If I understand correctly L746 is a SNP from Stewart lineage as mentioned by another user.
But what are the other markers?
Also, which gene are these alleles?

I realize that this thread is Stewart stuff...that will be my husband's side, but first I have to have a little bit better understanding of the markers involved.

Again, thank you for your time and help!

Jamie

Dubhthach
04-19-2017, 01:56 PM
There is an overview of the main Stewart Phylogenetic block here:
http://www.ytree.net/BlockInfo.php?blockID=86

Here's the Block diagram built using BigY data from 46 men who fall within the Stewart STR cluster. As can be seen the central block of SNP's (found in all men in cluster) has over 30 SNP's in it.
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=86&star=false

In case of L746 it's where a molecule of Cytosine (C) has mutated to a molecule of Thymine (T) at position 14515450 on the Y-Chromosome. In your brothers case he has a C at this position so he has the ancestral value and thus is negative for L746.

SNP's by themselves don't actually have to be part of genes they can be in the intergenic areas (Eg. non-encoding DNA)