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Hivestem
05-29-2016, 12:47 AM
As you can see in my results, I score East Asian ancestry in all three modes, including North Asian in speculative and standard mode, with the rest of it being West Asian and unassigned, so according to 23andme there's 90% probability of me having an East Asian forefather, despite East Asia being located so far away from West Asia/Mideast, unlike a lot of other regions nearby. Does this mean I can denote myself as East Asian by ancestry? Also 0.3% isn't so distant, so I'm quite surprised, is this something I should be surprised of? I'm also wondering if this might be a result of the Mongol and Turk rule which lasted for hundreds of years? Could this be some genetic impact from the Mongol Empire like this (http://www.worldology.com/Iraq/turk_mongol_rule.htm) article says at the bottom?

Speculative mode:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen2_zpsd1tlq4ji.png

Standard mode:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen3_zps20dx8zgv.png

Conservative mode:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen1_zpszaxffyya.png

I've also tried to look at Gedmatch to see if East Asian shows in the same chromosome and it seems like it does, when combining Siberian and East Asian from EUtest, I have the highest amount in the seventh chromosome and this matches the chromosome view in 23andme.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen5_zpsu5bpelgv.png
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen7_zpsxrysxqve.png

Furthermore the Siberian percentage in seventh chromosome on EUtest V2 is the highest of all my chromosomes and that definitely doesn't seem like a coincidence.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen6_zpse1xiinkx.png

All the other small percentages of ancestries on 23andme that aren't shown in conservative mode are obviously noise as they are interpreted in a different way on conservative mode and on Gedmatch.

AppalachianGumbo
06-07-2016, 09:52 PM
Here's the thing. You have quite a few trace amount populations on your autosomal; European, East Asian, Sub-Saharan African and South Asian. They all hover around 0.6 and none go over 1%. Under 1% (trace amounts) is what is considered in the "noise" or "statistical" error range. Even if they show in all three modes with 23andMe. They could be real or just common error.
Trace amounts are very common for all geographical groups to produce from other populations from 0.1 - 0.9. The one way to see if it's a real allele is to test both parents to see where it came from, which parent is the carrier. If one of your parents produce that same segment same chromosome, likely it can be real. Or you are carrying an alleles more common with East Asians in that region of your loci. We all share similar SNP's. These test use SNP patterns found more common in population, however not meaning they are NEVER found in other populations. There is a lot of rooting out here.

To claim our 0.6 East Asian as part of your ancestry is no different than claiming your 0.5 SSA or 0.6 European. To claim an ancestry means you have ties to an actual ancestor(s). These phantom ancestors will do nothing in solidifying the 0.6.

Dorkymon
06-07-2016, 10:22 PM
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/East-Asian-admixture.gif

Hivestem
06-07-2016, 11:20 PM
http://cdn.eupedia.com/images/content/East-Asian-admixture.gif
I have seen that map before. It combines Northeast and Southeast Asian on the Dodecad V3 calculator. The average according to that map is 1% - 2.5%, but I scored 2.63%, so I'm a little bit above average.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen8_zpslphxlyyc.png
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen9_zpscxypsgsb.png

Dorkymon
06-08-2016, 01:37 AM
I have seen that map before. It combines Northeast and Southeast Asian on the Dodecad V3 calculator. The average according to that map is 1% - 2.5%, but I scored 2.63%, so I'm a little bit above average.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen8_zpslphxlyyc.png
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen9_zpscxypsgsb.png

It's an average meaning that there are outliers who would score more and less. Don't worry about it, it's normal for your regeion and virtually everyone should score some East Asian. Heck, I would say that it were more suspicious if you didn't have any because it would point to a more Southern origin for your ancestors. Or it might have indicated complete isolation from a significant part of the population.

BalkanKiwi
06-08-2016, 09:24 PM
Like Dorkymon said, it probably isn't unexpected to score some East Asian. I've seen a few Kurdish results around the place where this is the case. Kurd (http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?2086-Kurd) could be the man to talk to if you have any detailed questions about it.

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 03:40 AM
It's an average meaning that there are outliers who would score more and less. Don't worry about it, it's normal for your regeion and virtually everyone should score some East Asian. Heck, I would say that it were more suspicious if you didn't have any because it would point to a more Southern origin for your ancestors. Or it might have indicated complete isolation from a significant part of the population.
But you wouldn't be surprised if you saw East Asian results with West Asian ancestry? I assume East Asians like Japanese for example score entirely East Asian ancestry and none West Asian for the most part, although they're probably a lot more isolated, so I guess that might be an explanation, but is it possible to be suggested as an ethnicity 100% on all 20 suggestions in the mixed mode on Gedmatch?

I'm not sure, but I would assume, that they mean the most frequent percentage when they say 1 - 2.5%. I assume the ones who score below 2% might just have it either as noise, or as an imaginary or ancient ancestry on Gedmatch, in case they don't show it on 23andme which relies more on recent ancestry. I guess it might be more recent if it also shows on 23andme and on the same chromosome, It makes me curious exactly what population that might be from and unsure if I'm 100% Kurdish, seems like 99.5% according to Eurogenes K13, with a percentage below 1% which is East Asian, 10 of the populations suggested on that calculator are East Asian, but they're all below 1%, so I'm not sure if it would've calculated me as 100% Kurdish if that was the case, although it did do so on 9 of the suggestions on the EUtest.

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen11_zpsyvxozhjh.png
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x407/Atinerwa/screen10_zps1krdmg4m.png

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 04:16 AM
Like Dorkymon said, it probably isn't unexpected to score some East Asian. I've seen a few Kurdish results around the place where this is the case. Kurd (http://www.anthrogenica.com/member.php?2086-Kurd) could be the man to talk to if you have any detailed questions about it.
I can't write him. You have more than 10 posts, so you might want to PM him about this thread, if he can answer questions about it.

ancestryfan1994
06-09-2016, 09:11 AM
This is pretty interesting, as I see some parallels and similarities to my situation with my east Asian ancestry. I've recently noticed a couple middle eastern people score potential non Turkic East Asian ancestry. The problem with mine has been that the signal for my East Asian ancestry isn't so strong and so confirming the origins has been pretty difficult, It seems we're very close but still some fine tuning is required before saying where it's from for certain. Also the thing is, my signal is a bit stronger than yours and it's still been hard to get answers. so I'm not sure if you'll ever be able to find out where it's from exactly. I do however have East Asian cousins detected which helps. Where do your DNA relatives come from? Any East Asians?

Anabasis
06-09-2016, 09:46 AM
Could you post your Harappa and Eurogenes k15 results?

psaglav
06-09-2016, 10:13 AM
umm Mongol invasion and various Khanates in the region might have contributed? I don't think it has to mean it's from Japan.

Plus, Silk Road. Frankly anything below 5% is still pretty low IMO. probably very distant.

Anabasis
06-09-2016, 10:56 AM
umm Mongol invasion and various Khanates in the region might have contributed? I don't think it has to mean it's from Japan.

Plus, Silk Road. Frankly anything below 5% is still pretty low IMO. probably very distant.

Actualy 5% is relatively high for east asian admixture in west Asia but Hivestem has not 5% but 0.6% which seems in noise level. But i would like to see proportions of East asian ancestry in overall scores of Harrappa and Eurogenes k15 as far as Hivestem scored 2.6% in dodecad V3.

And Hivestem, where city are you from?

Kurd
06-09-2016, 11:20 AM
Whereas a score of less than 1% is likely noice in ADMIXTURE, especially if it is a result of many tiny segments of a couple of SNPs, instead of a couple of larger segments, a result of 0.5% with 23andMe is most likely NOT noise. This is because noice filtering is done through their smoothing algorithm, where tiny segments of a couple of SNPs are not considered.

Additionally, they break up the genome into 100 SNP windows, and match those windows with their references. So basically for a segment to be declared E Asian, the majority of the segment (>50 SNPs) would have to match their E Asian reference. So an E Asian score of 0.5% implies that there were a few 100 SNP segments that were majority E Asian.

With regards to Kurds specifically, 2 of the 3 Kurd samples in my project are in the 0.8 to 1.1% E Asian range*. Keep in mind though, that although 23andMe's methodology reduces or eliminates noise, it at the same time eliminates some segments completely that are truly minority component.

Edit: * 23andMe

evon
06-09-2016, 11:25 AM
You might be interested to learn that many cities in the wider west Asia had a sizable Chinese population in the middle ages into more recent times, and I have seen at least one Iraqi with a Chinese YDNA line...In addition to this you have several migrations of peoples from eastern parts of Asia. Steppe peoples are less likely to be the culprit as they tended to be small in numbers and move around allot, not residing in cities and such (Timur being the prime example, he basically spent most his time conquering new and past conquests anew), hence you do not see much evidence of the Mongol presence in Europe etc as an example...

ancestryfan1994
06-09-2016, 11:30 AM
You might be interested to learn that many cities in the wider west Asia had a sizable Chinese population in the middle ages into more recent times, and I have seen at least one Iraqi with a Chinese YDNA line...In addition to this you have several migrations of peoples from eastern parts of Asia. Steppe peoples are less likely to be the culprit as they tended to be small in numbers and move around allot, not residing in cities and such (Timur being the prime example, he basically spent most his time conquering new and past conquests anew), hence you do not see much evidence of the Mongol presence in Europe etc as an example...


Yeah the Chinese as an example got around a lot, much more than what most people assume. Kharg island in Iran as an example, had a fair sized Chinese population who resided there working the crop fields/farms, as reported by the Dutch in the 1700's.

evon
06-09-2016, 11:45 AM
Yeah the Chinese as an example got around a lot, much more than what most people assume. Kharg island in Iran as an example, had a fair sized Chinese population who resided there working the crop fields/farms, as reported by the Dutch in the 1700's.

From memory I have read about both Konya in modern day Turkey and Baghdad in Iraq as cities with Chinese peoples living there, but I am sure there are many more...

Anabasis
06-09-2016, 12:00 PM
From memory I have read about both Konya in modern day Turkey and Baghdad in Iraq as cities with Chinese peoples living there, but I am sure there are many more...

Thats the first time i heard about that although i am from Turkey. It is most probably just a tale.

psaglav
06-09-2016, 12:03 PM
Might not be a tale. The Chinese really did get around a lot re trade.

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 04:02 PM
This is pretty interesting, as I see some parallels and similarities to my situation with my east Asian ancestry. I've recently noticed a couple middle eastern people score potential non Turkic East Asian ancestry. The problem with mine has been that the signal for my East Asian ancestry isn't so strong and so confirming the origins has been pretty difficult, It seems we're very close but still some fine tuning is required before saying where it's from for certain. Also the thing is, my signal is a bit stronger than yours and it's still been hard to get answers. so I'm not sure if you'll ever be able to find out where it's from exactly. I do however have East Asian cousins detected which helps. Where do your DNA relatives come from? Any East Asians?
Right, there are like hundreds or thousands of ethnic groups in East Asia, so it seems pretty hard to tell exactly where it's from, I don't know if the countries of ancestry feature would've helped a bit to pinpoint where it's from. You mean DNA relatives on 23andme? I don't know, I get all kinds of places, I've just looked at it again, I don't seem to get so many good matches, the closest relative is someone who I share 2 segments with (0.21%).

I seem to share a few segments with people from all across Europe, despite having none European ancestry. There's also some relatives from the US, Canada, Iran and Azerbaijan. I guess there aren't that many East Asians who are sharing on 23andme, it would probably also be hard to match if the percentage is low.

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 04:07 PM
Could you post your Harappa and Eurogenes k15 results?
HarappaWorld Oracle results:
23 April 2013 - Oracle reference population percentages revised.

Kit M034321

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 43.42
2 Baloch 25.81
3 SW-Asian 14.33
4 Mediterranean 5.79
5 NE-Euro 3.57
6 SE-Asian 1.95
7 Siberian 1.3
8 S-Indian 1.23
9 E-African 1.15
10 Papuan 0.83
11 NE-Asian 0.61

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 kurd (xing) 3.38
2 kurd (harappa) 3.59
3 kurd (yunusbayev) 3.64
4 iranian (harappa) 5.29
5 iranian (behar) 5.57
6 uzbekistan-jew (behar) 6.97
7 turkish (harappa) 8.51
8 armenian (harappa) 8.84
9 azeri (harappa) 9.26
10 iraqi-mandaean (harappa) 10.66
11 assyrian (harappa) 10.75
12 iraqi-arab (harappa) 11.55
13 iranian-jew (behar) 11.67
14 azerbaijan-jew (behar) 12.67
15 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 12.68
16 turk (behar) 12.69
17 georgia-jew (behar) 13.26
18 iraq-jew (behar) 13.37
19 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 13.82
20 armenian (yunusbayev) 14.39

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.4% kurd (xing) + 11.6% lebanese (behar) @ 2.47
2 87.2% kurd (xing) + 12.8% lebanese-muslim (haber) @ 2.47
3 83.2% kurd (xing) + 16.8% iraqi-arab (harappa) @ 2.49
4 93.8% kurd (xing) + 6.2% egypt (henn2012) @ 2.54
5 90.6% kurd (xing) + 9.4% jordanian (behar) @ 2.55
6 79.3% kurd (xing) + 20.7% armenian (harappa) @ 2.56
7 97.2% kurd (xing) + 2.8% khmer-cambodian (xing) @ 2.57
8 93.7% kurd (xing) + 6.3% egyptian (behar) @ 2.57
9 87.4% kurd (xing) + 12.6% palestinian (harappa) @ 2.57
10 97.4% kurd (xing) + 2.6% cambodian (hgdp) @ 2.58
11 97.4% kurd (xing) + 2.6% singapore-malay (sgvp) @ 2.58
12 97.1% kurd (xing) + 2.9% thai (xing) @ 2.58
13 88.6% kurd (xing) + 11.4% syrian (behar) @ 2.6
14 97.5% kurd (xing) + 2.5% samoan (xing) @ 2.6
15 71.2% iranian (harappa) + 28.8% iranian-jew (behar) @ 2.6
16 97.6% kurd (xing) + 2.4% tongan (xing) @ 2.62
17 97.8% kurd (xing) + 2.2% iban (xing) @ 2.63
18 88.9% kurd (xing) + 11.1% lebanese-druze (haber) @ 2.64
19 89.7% kurd (xing) + 10.3% lebanese-christian (haber) @ 2.64
20 97.6% kurd (xing) + 2.4% dai (hgdp) @ 2.65


Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit M034321

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 36.91
2 East_Med 35.2
3 South_Asian 7.56
4 Eastern_Euro 6.74
5 Red_Sea 4.49
6 North_Sea 2.39
7 West_Med 1.64
8 Southeast_Asian 1.36
9 Northeast_African 1.06
10 Siberian 0.88
11 Baltic 0.79
12 Oceanian 0.79
13 Sub-Saharan 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurdish 5.22
2 Iranian 6.71
3 Azeri 8.75
4 Georgian_Jewish 8.76
5 Armenian 9.06
6 Assyrian 10.84
7 Turkish 12.9
8 Iranian_Jewish 13.41
9 Kurdish_Jewish 14.44
10 Lebanese_Muslim 18.31
11 Turkmen 19.02
12 Kumyk 19.06
13 Syrian 19.93
14 Georgian 21.16
15 Lebanese_Druze 22.44
16 Adygei 22.71
17 Cyprian 22.79
18 Lezgin 22.81
19 Lebanese_Christian 22.82
20 Abhkasian 23.8

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.4% Kurdish + 14.6% Armenian @ 5.06
2 84.9% Kurdish + 15.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 5.07
3 92.4% Kurdish + 7.6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.11
4 91.1% Kurdish + 8.9% Assyrian @ 5.14
5 94.7% Kurdish + 5.3% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.18
6 97.6% Kurdish + 2.4% Abhkasian @ 5.19
7 97.9% Kurdish + 2.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 5.2
8 98.7% Kurdish + 1.3% Georgian @ 5.22
9 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% Dai @ 5.22
10 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% She @ 5.22
11 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% Miaozu @ 5.22
12 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% Tujia @ 5.22
13 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% Vietnamese @ 5.22
14 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% Lahu @ 5.22
15 99.4% Kurdish + 0.6% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.22
16 99.9% Kurdish + 0.1% Papuan @ 5.22
17 99.9% Kurdish + 0.1% NAN_Melanesian @ 5.22
18 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% Yemenite_Jewish @ 5.22
19 99.9% Kurdish + 0.1% Yizu @ 5.22
20 99.9% Kurdish + 0.1% Naxi @ 5.22


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit M034321

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 42.31
2 East_Med 31.32
3 South_Asian 7.07
4 West_Med 5.34
5 Red_Sea 5.14
6 Baltic 3.46
7 East_Asian 1.74
8 Northeast_African 1.53
9 Siberian 1.12
10 Oceanian 0.97

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kurdish 4.55
2 Iranian 6.52
3 Azeri 8.94
4 Armenian 9.66
5 Georgian_Jewish 10.09
6 Assyrian 13.2
7 Turkish 13.89
8 Georgian 14.16
9 Abhkasian 14.6
10 Iranian_Jewish 15.51
11 Kurdish_Jewish 15.91
12 Kumyk 16.02
13 Adygei 17.13
14 Ossetian 18.93
15 Turkmen 19.02
16 Balkar 19.02
17 North_Ossetian 19.38
18 Kabardin 20.38
19 Lezgin 21.33
20 Lebanese_Muslim 21.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.2% Kurdish + 9.8% Abhkasian @ 4.28
2 91.2% Kurdish + 8.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.46
3 94.5% Kurdish + 5.5% Georgian @ 4.48
4 99.4% Kurdish + 0.6% Dai @ 4.51
5 93.7% Kurdish + 6.3% Armenian @ 4.51
6 99.4% Kurdish + 0.6% She @ 4.52
7 99.5% Kurdish + 0.5% Vietnamese @ 4.52
8 99.5% Kurdish + 0.5% Miaozu @ 4.52
9 99.5% Kurdish + 0.5% Tujia @ 4.52
10 99.5% Kurdish + 0.5% Lahu @ 4.52
11 96.9% Kurdish + 3.1% Assyrian @ 4.53
12 74.7% Iranian + 25.3% Abhkasian @ 4.53
13 99.6% Kurdish + 0.4% Yizu @ 4.53
14 97.6% Kurdish + 2.4% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.53
15 99.6% Kurdish + 0.4% Cambodian @ 4.53
16 99.6% Kurdish + 0.4% Naxi @ 4.53
17 99.7% Kurdish + 0.3% NAN_Melanesian @ 4.53
18 99.6% Kurdish + 0.4% Japanese @ 4.54
19 99.6% Kurdish + 0.4% Malay @ 4.54
20 99.8% Kurdish + 0.2% Papuan @ 4.54

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 04:08 PM
The Harappaworld results seems really inaccurate.

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 04:10 PM
Actualy 5% is relatively high for east asian admixture in west Asia but Hivestem has not 5% but 0.6% which seems in noise level. But i would like to see proportions of East asian ancestry in overall scores of Harrappa and Eurogenes k15 as far as Hivestem scored 2.6% in dodecad V3.

And Hivestem, where city are you from?
Slemani.

Anabasis
06-09-2016, 05:37 PM
Slemani.

Your East Euroasian ancestry might come through Iraqi Turkmens then. But its too low.

evon
06-09-2016, 06:14 PM
Thats the first time i heard about that although i am from Turkey. It is most probably just a tale.

It was during the 14-1600's I believe (maybe earlier, it is a long time since I read abut this in a research article), had to do with the growing popularity of "Persian miniature style (http://www.iranchamber.com/art/articles/history_iranian_miniature.php)" in the wider west Asian region, which attracted allot of Chinese artists and their families etc...Can see if I can find something more concrete on the subject if you want, might be buried in one of my books..

evon
06-09-2016, 06:17 PM
Might not be a tale. The Chinese really did get around a lot re trade.

Chinese communities have been found all over Asia and even in Africa before the modern era, so yes they did move around allot, somewhat similar to Greeks, Phoenicians, Sogdians, Jews, Iranian and Indian peoples, who also created communities in various cities in connection with trade and craftsmanship...

evon
06-09-2016, 06:18 PM
Right, there are like hundreds or thousands of ethnic groups in East Asia, so it seems pretty hard to tell exactly where it's from, I don't know if the countries of ancestry feature would've helped a bit to pinpoint where it's from. You mean DNA relatives on 23andme? I don't know, I get all kinds of places, I've just looked at it again, I don't seem to get so many good matches, the closest relative is someone who I share 2 segments with (0.21%).

I seem to share a few segments with people from all across Europe, despite having none European ancestry. There's also some relatives from the US, Canada, Iran and Azerbaijan. I guess there aren't that many East Asians who are sharing on 23andme, it would probably also be hard to match if the percentage is low.

Are you on the new or the old 23andme platform? as on the new platform you should be able to see if you have any DNA cousin matches that overlap with the segment, at least in theory...

psaglav
06-09-2016, 06:38 PM
Chinese communities have been found all over Asia and even in Africa before the modern era, so yes they did move around allot, somewhat similar to Greeks, Phoenicians, Sogdians, Jews, Iranian and Indian peoples, who also created communities in various cities in connection with trade and craftsmanship...

True. There have been Jewish communities as far as in India since antiquity, for example.

I'm currently reading Peter Frankopan's Silk Roads, a good historian I know personally. I highly recommend it to those interested in the history of the region (which is pretty much all of East and West Asia.)

Asimakidis
06-09-2016, 06:57 PM
My maternal grandfather's father travelled with camels on the silk road to China late 1800s from Gumushane. :)

Sorry :D Offtopic!

evon
06-09-2016, 06:58 PM
True. There have been Jewish communities as far as in India since antiquity, for example.

I'm currently reading Peter Frankopan's Silk Roads, a good historian I know personally. I highly recommend it to those interested in the history of the region (which is pretty much all of East and West Asia.)

Have seen that book, but I have not had time to get a copy for myself, it is a must to read it given my field of study..what time frame is it centered around? I recommend Valerie Hansen's book "Silk Road (https://www.bookdepository.com/Silk-Road-Valerie-Hansen/9780190218423)", Christopher Beckwith "Empires of the Silk road (http://www.bookdepository.com/Empires-of-the-Silk-Road-Christopher-I-Beckwith/9780691150345?ref=grid-view)" and Xinru Lui's "The silk road.. (http://www.bookdepository.com/The-Silk-Road-in-World-History-Xinru-Liu/9780195338102?ref=pd_sims_pb_v1)"...

psaglav
06-09-2016, 07:02 PM
Have seen that book, but I have not had time to get a copy for myself, it is a must to read it given my field of study..what time frame is it centered around? I recommend Valerie Hansen's book "Silk Road (https://www.bookdepository.com/Silk-Road-Valerie-Hansen/9780190218423)", Christopher Beckwith "Empires of the Silk road (http://www.bookdepository.com/Empires-of-the-Silk-Road-Christopher-I-Beckwith/9780691150345?ref=grid-view)" and Xinru Lui's "The silk road.. (http://www.bookdepository.com/The-Silk-Road-in-World-History-Xinru-Liu/9780195338102?ref=pd_sims_pb_v1)"...

Thanks for the recommendation. :)

The book is thematic, it's about the Silk RoadS and it spans a large time frame.

ThirdTerm
06-09-2016, 07:48 PM
Family Tree DNA's "Kurdish DNA Project" found the following Y-DNA haplogroups: G2a, G2a3b1, I1, J1, R1a1a1, R1b1a2a1a1b4i, and Q1b1a. Haplogroup Q1b1a, which is associated with Asians and Native Americans, is very rare among the Kurds but approximately 2% of males in Turkey belong to Haplogroup Q. The Kurds historically admixed with the Turks, which may have resulted in the presence of some Asian ancestry in the Kurdish population. Some studies also yielded Haplogroup C in some Kurdish samples from Turkey and Malyarchuk et al. (2013) found that 4% of Iranian Kurds belong to C-RPS4Y which is common in China.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pbgP_5AOnms/UL8R8ENDD8I/AAAAAAAAH1I/9w_1e4eSRzI/s640/iranian_tajik_kurd.png



Haplogroup C
1x C-RPS4Y (Iranian Kurds in Malyarchuk et al., 2013)
1x C-RPS4Y (Zaza from Turkey in Nasidze et al., 2005)
1x C-RPS4Y (Kurmanji from Turkey in Nasidze et al., 2005)

Haplogroup Q
1x Q (Iraqi Kurds in Stenersen et al., 2004)

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 09:31 PM
Your East Euroasian ancestry might come through Iraqi Turkmens then. But its too low.
But don't you think it would have shown in the mixed mode if that was the case? Not a single suggestion on any of the calculators said Iraqi Turkmen. Maybe it's more likely to be one of the ethnic groups suggested on Eurogenes K13 which seems to be the most accurate calculator. I'm not exactly sure about the average East Asian in Kurds on Eurogenes K13, but according to this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dCZldTIfd-EPjDlpQiFNcHwOtZus9Qdll3pB48zdQG0/edit#gid=0) it's 0.36% and I score 1.74% which seems to be a lot more than average on that calculator. Do you have any results of Iraqi Turkmen and their average?

Hivestem
06-09-2016, 11:38 PM
Family Tree DNA's "Kurdish DNA Project" found the following Y-DNA haplogroups: G2a, G2a3b1, I1, J1, R1a1a1, R1b1a2a1a1b4i, and Q1b1a. Haplogroup Q1b1a, which is associated with Asians and Native Americans, is very rare among the Kurds but approximately 2% of males in Turkey belong to Haplogroup Q. The Kurds historically admixed with the Turks, which may have resulted in the presence of some Asian ancestry in the Kurdish population. Some studies also yielded Haplogroup C in some Kurdish samples from Turkey and Malyarchuk et al. (2013) found that 4% of Iranian Kurds belong to C-RPS4Y which is common in China.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pbgP_5AOnms/UL8R8ENDD8I/AAAAAAAAH1I/9w_1e4eSRzI/s640/iranian_tajik_kurd.png
Interesting. So out of the 20 suggestions I got on the Eurogenes K13 calculator, 10 of them are East Asian, 7 out of those 10 are Chinese ethnic groups and matches the results and the percentage I have on 23andme. Do you think that is a coincidence or do you think it's actually a pattern and an indication of a Chinese ancestor given that there are both historical and genetic ties?

These ethnic groups suggested on Gedmatch all originate in China:

Dai
She
Miaozu
Tujia
Yizu
Naxi
Lahu

Only these 3 are not Chinese:

Vietnamese
Cambodian
Japanese

Hivestem
06-11-2016, 01:59 PM
The funny thing is that on 10 of the calculations, it shows the exact same percentage of East Asian ancestry as the ancestry composition of 23andme. Would it have calculated me as 100% Kurdish if that was the case?

Also is there no way I can ever know exactly what ethnic group I have it from?

Táltos
06-11-2016, 02:43 PM
Haplogroup Q1b1a, which is associated with Asians and Native Americans, is very rare among the Kurds but approximately 2% of males in Turkey belong to Haplogroup Q.
No, haplogroup Q1b1a is not associated with Native Americans. That would be Q-M3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M3

This article,(The First Peopling of South America: New Evidence from Y-Chromosome Haplogroup Q Vincenza Battaglia, Viola Grugni, Ugo Alessandro Perego, Norman Angerhofer, J. Edgar Gomez-Palmieri, Scott Ray Woodward, Alessandro Achilli, Natalie Myres, Antonio Torroni, Ornella Semino) had found two samples of Q1b known as Q-M378 samples in Central America (Panama) and South America (Andean Region). They were dismissed as being from conversos.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-M242#cite_note-125

Q1b1a also known as Q-L245 is mostly found in West Asian groups. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_Q-L275

Hivestem
06-12-2016, 03:42 AM
It was during the 14-1600's I believe (maybe earlier, it is a long time since I read abut this in a research article), had to do with the growing popularity of "Persian miniature style (http://www.iranchamber.com/art/articles/history_iranian_miniature.php)" in the wider west Asian region, which attracted allot of Chinese artists and their families etc...Can see if I can find something more concrete on the subject if you want, might be buried in one of my books..

Yep, I've just read your link again. I think I can confirm that I have most likely inherited it from the Timurid Empire (which ruled between 1370-1507) where intermarriages occurred between Iranians and Mongols. 23andme goes back 500 years, so genetic impact from the Timurid Empire would most likely still show.

I’ve just looked up the seven ethnic groups in question and where they live and what surprised me was the fact that they all seem to live primarily in the southern part of China, they seem to be closely related to each other and not live far away from each other in the mountainous regions of South China.

It seems like the East Asian ancestry that I have might trace back to an ancestor from somewhere in South China, I guess likely somewhere in the Yunnan province (5 of the ethnic groups I got calculated as primarily live there) or it could also be somewhere in Fuijan, Sichuan, Hunan, Jiangxi, Guizhou, Guangdong or Guangxi, all of which South Chinese provinces where the ethnic groups in question (that were calculated on Gedmatch) live primarily.

Just a pity that they’ve removed the countries of ancestry feature on 23andme. Having that feature would maybe have been nice.