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meir.t
05-29-2016, 07:00 PM
I have received my results today from 23andme but they are not as detailed as I would have imagined

Results:

85% Middle eastern and North African:
- 70% Middle eastern
- 13% North African
- 1.5% broadly middle eastern and north African

14.0% European
- 6.2% Italian
- 3.3% Broadly southern European
- 1.2% Ashkenazi
- 3.2% Broadly European

0.3% East Asian and Native American

This is not what I expected because two of my grandparents are from north Africa and two other are from Uzbekistan (all sides are Jewish)

Does anyone have any opinion on this? What things could I do to get more information out of my results from 23andme?

These are the haplotypes on the paternal and maternal side:

maternal -
http://i65.tinypic.com/1zvtwuv.png

paternal -

http://i65.tinypic.com/swtil0.png

kingjohn
05-29-2016, 07:15 PM
dear meir ,
upload your 23 and me raw data data to dna land https://dna.land/
it is more preicise
and it is chance to see uniqe results
maybe your uzbekistan side will show up.
best regards
adam

tippy
05-29-2016, 07:20 PM
Also, go on gedmatch. Do eurogenes jtest, dodecad v3 and puntdnal k10 or k12.

Táltos
05-29-2016, 07:24 PM
I have received my results today from 23andme but they are not as detailed as I would have imagined

Results:

85% Middle eastern and North African:
- 70% Middle eastern
- 13% North African
- 1.5% broadly middle eastern and north African

14.0% European
- 6.2% Italian
- 3.3% Broadly southern European
- 1.2% Ashkenazi
- 3.2% Broadly European

0.3% East Asian and Native American

This is not what I expected because two of my grandparents are from north Africa and two other are from Uzbekistan (all sides are Jewish)

Does anyone have any opinion on this? What things could I do to get more information out of my results from 23andme?

These are the haplotypes on the paternal and maternal side:

maternal -
http://i65.tinypic.com/1zvtwuv.png

paternal -

http://i65.tinypic.com/swtil0.png

Welcome to Anthrogenica meir.t! Thank you for sharing your results. What is your paternal Y DNA? It is not listed in your link.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 07:43 PM
Thanks I've uploaded my data to dna.land and gedmatch I'll see what the results are when they're done

Taltos - I am not an expert in genetics. My paternal haplogroup is R1a1a

Táltos
05-29-2016, 07:57 PM
Thanks I've uploaded my data to dna.land and gedmatch I'll see what the results are when they're done

Taltos - I am not an expert in genetics. My paternal haplogroup is R1a1a

Thanks and great! A lot of people are interested in Sephardic DNA. So we all look forward to what your results will show with the other admixture calculators.

warwick
05-29-2016, 08:01 PM
I have received my results today from 23andme but they are not as detailed as I would have imagined

Results:

85% Middle eastern and North African:
- 70% Middle eastern
- 13% North African
- 1.5% broadly middle eastern and north African

14.0% European
- 6.2% Italian
- 3.3% Broadly southern European
- 1.2% Ashkenazi
- 3.2% Broadly European

0.3% East Asian and Native American

This is not what I expected because two of my grandparents are from north Africa and two other are from Uzbekistan (all sides are Jewish)

Does anyone have any opinion on this? What things could I do to get more information out of my results from 23andme?

These are the haplotypes on the paternal and maternal side:

maternal -
http://i65.tinypic.com/1zvtwuv.png

paternal -

http://i65.tinypic.com/swtil0.png

There aren't any tools tailored to Sephardic Jews. However, GEDMATCH can be useful It would also be useful to do a plot of your data on a PCA map.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 08:09 PM
Taltos - I didn't realise people knew much about Sephardic Jews. Most people wouldn't know there are different kinds of Jews

Warwick - I'm not sure what a PCA map is. My field of specialty is really not in genetics! I do delve in science but nothing surrounding this topic. Your link doesn't work

tippy
05-29-2016, 08:18 PM
A fellow r1a1a eh? I'm a syrian sunni arab from damascus but a lot of my 23andme cousins are syrian sephardim or mizrahim so I have a keen interest in jewish groups. Looking forward to seeing your results! Welcome and nice to meet you btw.

Artmar
05-29-2016, 08:24 PM
I would've gladly seen your R1a result in higher resolution ! :)

We have many results of R1a Askhenazi Levites and other Ashkenazis but not of known Sephardim

meir.t
05-29-2016, 08:34 PM
Tippy - How does your ancestry look like? It is interesting because Syria is quite a heterogenous country you have some Syrians I've seen that look very European and others who look a lot more arab.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 08:42 PM
Artmar - I've heard of Ashkenazi Levites that a lot of them have that haplotype which is interesting. It seems to be that one that is seen across many countries but predominantly in eastern Europe.

The resolution is pretty bad here's another link but its not much better

http://i67.tinypic.com/2vngbgo.png

tippy
05-29-2016, 08:46 PM
23andme is crap for its ancestry composition really (hence why the recommendations for dna land and gedmatch itt).

My 23andme composition isn't that dissimilar to yours. My gedmatch results vary by the run but I cluster closer to iraqi jews and lebanese muslims and even druze than syrians usually. Anyway here's my gedmatch kit number feel free to have a look: M719392

9519

Artmar
05-29-2016, 08:46 PM
Artmar - I've heard of Ashkenazi Levites that a lot of them have that haplotype which is interesting. It seems to be that one that is seen across many countries but predominantly in eastern Europe.
Almost one of two Levites are R1a, most of them are Y2619.


The resolution is pretty bad here's another link but its not much better

http://i67.tinypic.com/2vngbgo.png

I know that map :). Unfortunately, you would have to take a separate Y-DNA test with different company to see which subclade you represent.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 08:53 PM
Tippy - Very similar to mine in fact yes except that I am not fully 'middle eastern'. My maternal side is all from Uzbekistan of Jewish origin. They do as far as oral history goes have apparently a middle eastern origin specifically Iran so perhaps that explains it.

The kit number doesn't work it says its not marked as 'public'. it would be interesting to see how gedmatch looks I've never used it before

tippy
05-29-2016, 08:55 PM
Tippy - How does your ancestry look like? It is interesting because Syria is quite a heterogenous country you have some Syrians I've seen that look very European and others who look a lot more arab.


I would argue that a lot of near eastern peoples fit your physical descriptions (ie a mix of looking very european and very middle eastern) :)

tippy
05-29-2016, 08:56 PM
Sorry I'll fix it and get back to you. In the meantime ill pm you some examples later.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 08:57 PM
Yes but there are two Syrian women I know who look like southern Europeans. I wouldn't have known they were Syrian had they told me (if I didn't know their names). Hell I know Italians who look more middle eastern then they do. There are Italians who look very Arab which I suppose is down to the moor history in southern Italy

tippy
05-29-2016, 08:58 PM
btw the middle eastern component on 23 and me is badly named. It should be called a west Asian component. Uzbek jews usually score this quite highly hence why this is included in your composition.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 09:03 PM
I always imagined the middle east as kind of including northern Africa. I didn't think Northern Africa was that much different ethnically from the proper middle east. What's odd is that I hardly have 'North Africa' showing up and mostly middle eastern origin being observed.

What me a bit sceptical about the results is that when I change it from 'speculative' to 'standard' and 'conservative' the % of unassigned ancestry goes to 17.5% for 'standard' and an ever worse 61.1% for conservative

kingjohn
05-29-2016, 09:04 PM
meir your dna land result will have indo-iranian and central indoeuropean
components on the sefhardic side i dont take a gamble who knows one of the southern european components.{italian, balkan, med-islander}
i think i am more excited than you to see the results.
best regards
adam

p.s when you will have your results post them on updated dna land forum

crossover
05-29-2016, 09:13 PM
Thanks I've uploaded my data to dna.land and gedmatch I'll see what the results are when they're done

Taltos - I am not an expert in genetics. My paternal haplogroup is R1a1a

what's your gedmatch kit number? i'd like to see how your dna compares to grandpa, my greatgreat uncle, and their other close matches

meir.t
05-29-2016, 09:15 PM
Kingjohn - I've never even heard of Indo-Iranians. On the Uzbekistan side (called Bukharan Jewish) that could be the case given their possible Iranian origin but I don't have any history in my paternal side of origin from that area.

I was more sure that I would have Iberian origin as opposed to Italian because North African Jews particularly Morrocoans and Algerians have a partial origin from Spain following the Alhambra decree. There was an immigration of Jews from Italy to northern Africa but I think more specifically to Libya though after they were expelled if I'm not mistaken

Why are my results exciting to you? :) I bought my DNA testing kit out of curiosity to see whether I could have some origin in the Levant. if the story of the Jewish people is accurate then I should theoretically have that background because Jews in North Africa for a lot of them migrated directly from the Kingdom of Israel roughly 2000 years ago

crossover
05-29-2016, 09:17 PM
23andme is crap for its ancestry composition really (hence why the recommendations for dna land and gedmatch itt).

My 23andme composition isn't that dissimilar to yours. My gedmatch results vary by the run but I cluster closer to iraqi jews and lebanese muslims and even druze than syrians usually. Anyway here's my gedmatch kit number feel free to have a look: M719392

9519

dna.land isn't that great either, they overestimate balkan by a lot

meir.t
05-29-2016, 09:17 PM
Crossover - It's still not finished yet apparently my batch is being compared now. Kit number is M722730

What is your family's background?

crossover
05-29-2016, 09:24 PM
Crossover - It's still not finished yet apparently my batch is being compared now. Kit number is M722730

What is your family's background?

my mom's side is mexican, but my grandpa appears to have a least a little converso/sephardic since he matches multiple ashkenazi jewish people on the same dna segment region. his uncle doesn't match those same jewish people but he does have a sephardic match on chromosome 3.

kingjohn
05-29-2016, 09:25 PM
they fixed the balkan {my grandmother is bulgarian and they used bulgarian for refrence yet i score only 7.5% balkan i should have scored 15-20%}
meir t i am excited because ther are not many sefhardics in gedmatch or in dna land .{most aschenazi}.
i was wrong you are correct that more likely your southern european component will be iberian
lets wait .
regards
adam

meir.t
05-29-2016, 09:29 PM
Crossover - Yes many people of Hispanic background have Sephardic origin. In spain there was a very significant Jewish population up until roughly 500 years ago. They were often mass conversion and rape and so there area a significant percentage of Hispanics with Sephardic Jewish background

meir.t
05-29-2016, 09:32 PM
Kingjohn - Yeah there shouldn't be many considering that most Jews are Ashkenazi and there most Sephardic Jews don't live in English speaking countries. So you think they weren't accurate about the Italian origin? I found the 1% Ashkenazi jewish a bit odd as well but I suppose if Jews are related to each other there should be some similarities

Is your Bulgarian side Jewish? There was a big Bulgarian Sephardic community back before the second world war its one of the few communities that wasn't massacred in Europe. But there was also an Ashkenazi jewish community as well if I'm not mistaken

kingjohn
05-29-2016, 09:38 PM
part jewish part gentile.
yes bulgarian jews are sefhardics i score 7% south west european in dna land
and it must be from my sefhardic side .
i dont know lets wait maybe you score iberian maybe italian
you will probably score some north african
reagrds
adam

meir.t
05-29-2016, 09:44 PM
Yep I would be surprised if don't have any North African since that's half of my origin. I did imagine that I would have a greater percentage of European since two grandparents of mine have blue and green eyes although I'm not sure if those are necessarily European historically

AJL
05-29-2016, 09:55 PM
Welcome to Anthrogenica.

I'd encourage you to test your yDNA at Family Tree DNA. So far we have several main clusters of Jewish R1a:

(1) An Algerian-specific group;
(2) A mainly Ashkenazi Levite group with a single Mizrahi member from Anbar Province, Iraq; and
(3) A completely Ashkenazi Israelite group.

Please PM me if you would like more specifics.

kingjohn
05-29-2016, 09:59 PM
your eurogenes k36 results :
5% italian !!!!
8% south central asian {must be from your uzbek side }
very cool.

M722730 Elapsed Time: 30.38 seconds


Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 8.63
Armenian 7.29
Basque 0.71
Central_African -
Central_Euro 1.40
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 2.45
East_Med 22.04
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian -
French -
Iberian 8.69
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 5.14
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 19.72
North_African 1.35
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 7.12
North_Sea 0.29
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.09
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 8.29
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.93
West_Med 1.87


regards
adam

Agamemnon
05-29-2016, 10:11 PM
Your Eurogenes K13 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.33
2 West_Asian 23.56
3 West_Med 13.79
4 Red_Sea 9.99
5 North_Atlantic 7.08
6 Baltic 5.04
7 South_Asian 4.53
8 Oceanian 0.84
9 Amerindian 0.68
10 Northeast_African 0.6
11 Sub-Saharan 0.56

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese_Muslim 7.3
2 Syrian 7.99
3 Turkish 9.75
4 Cyprian 10.19
5 Assyrian 11.55
6 Iranian_Jewish 12.02
7 Kurdish_Jewish 12.17
8 Georgian_Jewish 13.11
9 Jordanian 13.24
10 Azeri 13.75
11 Sephardic_Jewish 14.13
12 Samaritan 14.17
13 Tunisian_Jewish 14.33
14 Lebanese_Druze 14.38
15 Palestinian 14.45
16 Lebanese_Christian 14.49
17 Libyan_Jewish 14.84
18 South_Italian 15
19 Armenian 15.03
20 East_Sicilian 15.11

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.2% Algerian_Jewish + 47.8% Iranian @ 3.3
2 63.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 36.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.47
3 77.5% Kurdish_Jewish + 22.5% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.55
4 64.2% Iranian_Jewish + 35.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.65
5 77.8% Iranian_Jewish + 22.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.65
6 80% Iranian_Jewish + 20% Southwest_French @ 3.76
7 51.6% Italian_Jewish + 48.4% Iranian @ 3.77
8 56.2% Iranian_Jewish + 43.8% East_Sicilian @ 3.78
9 56.9% Iranian_Jewish + 43.1% Central_Greek @ 3.82
10 55.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 44.6% Iranian @ 3.83
11 79.8% Kurdish_Jewish + 20.2% Southwest_French @ 3.83
12 77.2% Kurdish_Jewish + 22.8% Portuguese @ 3.86
13 79.4% Iranian_Jewish + 20.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.91
14 86% Lebanese_Muslim + 14% Moldavian @ 3.92
15 78.6% Kurdish_Jewish + 21.4% French @ 3.94
16 73.6% Iranian_Jewish + 26.4% North_Italian @ 3.95
17 71.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 28.1% Romanian @ 3.96
18 88.4% Lebanese_Muslim + 11.6% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.96
19 79.2% Kurdish_Jewish + 20.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.96
20 77.5% Iranian_Jewish + 22.5% Portuguese @ 3.97
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.33
2 West_Asian 23.56
3 West_Med 13.79
4 Red_Sea 9.99
5 North_Atlantic 7.08
6 Baltic 5.04
7 South_Asian 4.53


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Lebanese_Muslim @ 8.323812
2 Syrian @ 8.833948
3 Turkish @ 10.762280
4 Cyprian @ 11.606896
5 Assyrian @ 13.299462
6 Iranian_Jewish @ 13.829526
7 Kurdish_Jewish @ 14.031480
8 Jordanian @ 14.367128
9 Georgian_Jewish @ 15.124764
10 Azeri @ 15.512093
11 Sephardic_Jewish @ 16.181969
12 Palestinian @ 16.183664
13 Samaritan @ 16.269993
14 Tunisian_Jewish @ 16.340734
15 Lebanese_Druze @ 16.710640
16 Libyan_Jewish @ 16.751993
17 Lebanese_Christian @ 16.756718
18 South_Italian @ 16.979399
19 East_Sicilian @ 17.203209
20 Armenian @ 17.275728

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Algerian_Jewish +50% Iranian @ 3.461394


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Kurdish_Jewish +25% Romanian +25% Syrian @ 3.074610


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish + Syrian + Syrian @ 1.798797
2 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Lebanese_Muslim + Syrian @ 1.838478
3 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Syrian + Syrian @ 1.877960
4 Central_Greek + Iranian + Syrian + Syrian @ 2.066750
5 Azeri + Central_Greek + Syrian + Syrian @ 2.115937
6 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Samaritan + Syrian @ 2.173692
7 Central_Greek + Iranian + Lebanese_Muslim + Syrian @ 2.194152
8 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish + Lebanese_Muslim + Syrian @ 2.216718
9 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish + Samaritan + Syrian @ 2.235360
10 Central_Greek + Kurdish + Syrian + Syrian @ 2.284985
11 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Lebanese_Christian + Syrian @ 2.300389
12 Assyrian + Bedouin + Iranian + Tuscan @ 2.342890
13 East_Sicilian + Iranian + Lebanese_Muslim + Syrian @ 2.380493
14 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Lebanese_Muslim + Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.390507
15 Iranian + Italian_Abruzzo + Syrian + Syrian @ 2.396935
16 Central_Greek + Cyprian + Iranian + Syrian @ 2.438559
17 Azeri + East_Sicilian + Syrian + Syrian @ 2.442918
18 Iranian + Lebanese_Muslim + Syrian + West_Sicilian @ 2.448671
19 Azeri + Central_Greek + Lebanese_Muslim + Syrian @ 2.464479
20 Cyprian + Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Syrian @ 2.468106

Your Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.02
2 West_Asian 20.85
3 West_Med 11.54
4 Red_Sea 10.05
5 North_Sea 5.79
6 Eastern_Euro 5.2
7 South_Asian 4.73
8 Baltic 2.92
9 Atlantic 2.88
10 Northeast_African 0.73
11 Oceanian 0.58
12 Sub-Saharan 0.41
13 Amerindian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 7.88
2 Lebanese_Muslim 7.94
3 Cyprian 9.61
4 Assyrian 11.61
5 Turkish 11.77
6 Iranian_Jewish 12.17
7 Kurdish_Jewish 12.27
8 Jordanian 12.99
9 Samaritan 13
10 Sephardic_Jewish 13.14
11 Lebanese_Christian 13.24
12 Ashkenazi 13.25
13 Libyan_Jewish 13.52
14 Tunisian_Jewish 13.61
15 Georgian_Jewish 13.93
16 Italian_Jewish 14.05
17 Azeri 14.11
18 Palestinian 14.46
19 Lebanese_Druze 14.89
20 South_Italian 14.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.1% Kurdish_Jewish + 47.9% Ashkenazi @ 3.95
2 52.4% Iranian_Jewish + 47.6% Ashkenazi @ 4.15
3 62.6% Kurdish_Jewish + 37.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.39
4 55.1% Libyan_Jewish + 44.9% Iranian @ 4.65
5 72.7% Samaritan + 27.3% Tabassaran @ 4.71
6 63.1% Iranian_Jewish + 36.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.79
7 53.9% Assyrian + 46.1% Ashkenazi @ 4.81
8 72.1% Samaritan + 27.9% Tadjik @ 4.82
9 72.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 27.1% Serbian @ 4.83
10 75.4% Kurdish_Jewish + 24.6% Moldavian @ 4.86
11 54.6% Libyan_Jewish + 45.4% Kurdish @ 4.92
12 74.2% Samaritan + 25.8% Afghan_Pashtun @ 4.94
13 70.8% Kurdish_Jewish + 29.2% Romanian @ 5.04
14 76.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 23.1% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.12
15 51.2% Libyan_Jewish + 48.8% Azeri @ 5.17
16 77.1% Kurdish_Jewish + 22.9% Hungarian @ 5.19
17 78.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 21.1% East_German @ 5.2
18 69.5% Kurdish_Jewish + 30.5% Bulgarian @ 5.2
19 77.1% Kurdish_Jewish + 22.9% Croatian @ 5.2
20 77.2% Iranian_Jewish + 22.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.28
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 34.02
2 West_Asian 20.85
3 West_Med 11.54
4 Red_Sea 10.05
5 North_Sea 5.79
6 Eastern_Euro 5.20
7 South_Asian 4.73
8 Baltic 2.92
9 Atlantic 2.88


Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
15 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Syrian @ 8.777555
2 Lebanese_Muslim @ 9.198961
3 Cyprian @ 11.072799
4 Turkish @ 13.268753
5 Assyrian @ 13.496954
6 Jordanian @ 14.088278
7 Iranian_Jewish @ 14.189206
8 Kurdish_Jewish @ 14.369298
9 Samaritan @ 15.109488
10 Libyan_Jewish @ 15.185630
11 Sephardic_Jewish @ 15.223449
12 Ashkenazi @ 15.396897
13 Lebanese_Christian @ 15.551406
14 Tunisian_Jewish @ 15.568830
15 Azeri @ 15.929153
16 Italian_Jewish @ 16.164074
17 Georgian_Jewish @ 16.187410
18 Palestinian @ 16.355612
19 South_Italian @ 17.082060
20 Algerian_Jewish @ 17.128464

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.545045


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese_Christian +25% Libyan_Jewish +25% Tadjik @ 4.542963


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Samaritan + Syrian @ 3.886095
2 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Lebanese_Christian + Syrian @ 3.974244
3 Ashkenazi + Iranian + Kurdish_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 3.996491
4 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Kurdish_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.096829
5 Libyan_Jewish + Samaritan + Samaritan + Tabassaran @ 4.191914
6 Ashkenazi + Iranian + Iranian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.239257
7 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish + Samaritan + Syrian @ 4.259237
8 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Iranian + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.351279
9 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Lebanese_Muslim + Samaritan @ 4.366422
10 Bedouin + Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.384488
11 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Kurdish_Jewish + Samaritan @ 4.397290
12 Ashkenazi + Kurdish_Jewish + Samaritan + Turkmen @ 4.397513
13 Bedouin + Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Kurdish_Jewish @ 4.417098
14 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish + Lebanese_Christian + Syrian @ 4.417845
15 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Turkmen @ 4.418050
16 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Turkmen @ 4.419189
17 Ashkenazi + Cyprian + Iranian + Syrian @ 4.427413
18 Ashkenazi + Kurdish + Kurdish_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.431665
19 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Jordanian + Lebanese_Christian @ 4.437106
20 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian + Iranian_Jewish + Libyan_Jewish @ 4.442416

Your Punt K12 (Modern) results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus_HG 33.29
2 Anatolian_NF 32.2
3 Near_East 18.66
4 European_HG 8.6
5 South_Asian 4.61
6 Sub-Saharan 1.16
7 Oceanian 0.72
8 East_Asian 0.52
9 Beringian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Assyrian 7.79
2 Lebanese 8.36
3 Syrian 9.75
4 Turkish 9.75
5 Cypriot 10.74
6 Druze 10.86
7 Turkish_Kayseri 10.89
8 Palestinian 11.14
9 Iranian_Jew 11.3
10 Kurdish 11.9
11 Iraqi_Jew 11.95
12 Turkish_Aydin 13.03
13 Jordanian 13.06
14 Ashkenazi_Jew 13.55
15 Georgian_Jew 13.57
16 Sicilian_East 13.98
17 Armenian 14.23
18 Iranian 14.71
19 Laz 14.98
20 Turkish_Trabzon 15.5

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.4% Lebanese + 40.6% Kurdish @ 2.67
2 54.3% Lebanese + 45.7% Turkish @ 2.89
3 54.3% Iranian + 45.7% Libyan_Jew @ 2.94
4 52.5% Iranian + 47.5% Moroccan_Jew @ 2.94
5 54.1% Iranian + 45.9% Turkish_Jew @ 3.27
6 75.2% Lebanese + 24.8% Chechen @ 3.32
7 71.6% Lebanese + 28.4% Kumyk @ 3.63
8 75.6% Lebanese + 24.4% Adygei @ 3.64
9 74.5% Lebanese + 25.5% Balkar @ 3.89
10 54.5% Iranian + 45.5% Tunisian_Jew @ 3.91
11 79.6% Lebanese + 20.4% Lezgin @ 3.91
12 58.7% Kurdish + 41.3% BedouinA @ 3.93
13 60.2% Kurdish + 39.8% Libyan_Jew @ 4.07
14 53.9% Turkish + 46.1% Palestinian @ 4.07
15 50% Turkish + 50% Syrian @ 4.08
16 60.3% Kurdish + 39.7% Tunisian_Jew @ 4.12
17 77.2% Lebanese + 22.8% North_Ossetian @ 4.17
18 70% Turkish_Jew + 30% Makrani @ 4.17
19 64.4% Turkish + 35.6% BedouinA @ 4.2
20 52.1% Iranian + 47.9% Sicilian_West @ 4.23
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus_HG 33.29
2 Anatolian_NF 32.20
3 Near_East 18.66
4 European_HG 8.60
5 South_Asian 4.61
6 Sub-Saharan 1.16


Finished reading population data. 135 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Assyrian @ 8.445592
2 Lebanese @ 8.847222
3 Syrian @ 10.262872
4 Turkish @ 10.417705
5 Cypriot @ 11.457776
6 Druze @ 11.583295
7 Turkish_Kayseri @ 11.753484
8 Palestinian @ 11.812516
9 Iranian_Jew @ 12.207092
10 Iraqi_Jew @ 12.859916
11 Kurdish @ 12.953309
12 Jordanian @ 13.773320
13 Turkish_Aydin @ 13.845391
14 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 14.498486
15 Georgian_Jew @ 14.798142
16 Sicilian_East @ 15.010034
17 Armenian @ 15.541002
18 Iranian @ 16.029522
19 Laz @ 16.396257
20 Turkish_Trabzon @ 17.015564

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese +50% Turkish @ 3.058607


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Kurdish +25% Sicilian_East +25% Yemenite_Jew @ 1.371802


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Iranian + Kurdish + Tuscan + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.169200
2 Ashkenazi_Jew + Kurdish + Kurdish + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.308784
3 Kurdish + Kurdish + Sicilian_East + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.371802
4 Kurdish + Kurdish + Sicilian_West + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.569803
5 Chechen + Kurdish + Turkish_Jew + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.682304
6 Greek + Iranian + Kurdish + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.716131
7 Albanian + Iranian + Kurdish + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.761609
8 Ashkenazi_Jew + Kurdish + Turkish + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.768442
9 Chechen + Kurdish + Moroccan_Jew + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.824652
10 Iranian + Turkish + Tuscan + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.921180
11 Iranian + Iranian + Italian_Bergamo + Yemenite_Jew @ 1.942147
12 Greek + Iranian + Turkish + Yemenite_Jew @ 2.015057
13 BedouinA + Iranian + Kurdish + Sicilian_West @ 2.026682
14 Kurdish + Sicilian_East + Turkish + Yemenite_Jew @ 2.063694
15 Chechen + Kurdish + Libyan_Jew + Yemenite_Jew @ 2.118935
16 Greek + Kurdish + Kurdish + Yemenite_Jew @ 2.134785
17 Chechen + Kurdish + Tunisian_Jew + Yemenite_Jew @ 2.163428
18 Assyrian + BedouinA + Greek + Iranian @ 2.170272
19 Iranian + Iranian + Libyan_Jew + Sicilian_West @ 2.171920
20 Albanian + Iranian + Turkish + Yemenite_Jew @ 2.182283

Basically half-Sephardic/Western Jewish half-Mizrahi, makes sense.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 10:14 PM
kingjohn - where did you get those results from? And are the numbers just percentages?

meir.t
05-29-2016, 10:17 PM
Agamenmnon - are these my results? I've no idea how you guys got those results!

Morges
05-29-2016, 10:17 PM
These results sounds intriguing, can you post various MDLP, Dodecad and others Eurogenes calculator like ANE K7 or Hunther vs Farmers?You look a lot like a typical Levantine. Are you Sephardi Jewish from?

meir.t
05-29-2016, 10:19 PM
Morges - I have no idea what all those things are yet. This is only my first few hours of looking at my genetic results! My background is Algerian/Tunisian Jewish paternally and Bukharan Jew (Uzbekistan) on the maternal side.

Morges
05-29-2016, 10:21 PM
Morges - I have no idea what all those things are yet. This is only my first few hours of looking at my genetic results! My background is Algerian/Tunisian Jewish paternally and Bukharan Jew (Uzbekistan) on the maternal side.

Well, also your haplogroups are interesting ;)

meir.t
05-29-2016, 10:22 PM
Morges - but how did you all get that data? I have no idea where you got it from. When I go to the gedmatch website it doesn't show anything

kingjohn
05-29-2016, 10:26 PM
you gave your kit number in previews pages
any way it was rude on my behalf
i should have asked your premession to show results.
i am sorry
regards
adam

very cool result now lets wait for dna land.

Morges
05-29-2016, 10:27 PM
Don't you have got your kit number on GEDmatch?

meir.t
05-29-2016, 10:31 PM
kingjohn - No its fine the results do look pretty cool. But where do you go on GEDmatch to get those results? I couldn't find it

And could you explain me what those things are? Eurogenes 36 and all the rest? I am just completely on the topic of researching ancestry and all that I've never done this before

How would these results exactly know things like the percentage of Iranian Jewish or Tunisian Jewish origin? I didn't know that there was such a test that could find that out. And why is it so different from my 23andme results?

Morges
05-29-2016, 10:33 PM
GEDmatch site--->>>Log in--->>>Admixture (heritage)--->>Select the project--->>Continue--->>Enter your kit number--->>Continue--->>Results

Agamemnon
05-29-2016, 10:33 PM
Agamenmnon - are these my results? I've no idea how you guys got those results!

I'm assuming the kit number kingjohn posted (M722730) is yours, I just checked and it seems quite likely since you don't have the "one-to-many matches" yet (which means you've just uploaded your data on gedmatch). These certainly look like your results, one thing you must understand is that, from a genetic standpoint, you are a mixture between two Jewish clusters: The Western Jewish cluster (which comprises Ashkenazi, Italian, Romaniote, Sephardic, Maghrebi & Syrian Jews) and the Mizrahi Jewish cluster (Iraqi, Persian, Kurdish/Assyrian, Georgian and Uzbek Jews), the former is East Mediterranean in nature and therefore similar to South Italians, Sicilians, Cretans, Maltese and Cypriots while the latter is primarily Mesopotamian and similar to Assyrians, Armenians, Kurds and Iranians. This dichotomy is likely to reflect the division between the Greek-speaking part of the diaspora (Hellenistic Jewry) and the Aramaic-speaking part of the diaspora (Mesopotamian Jewry).

So let's highlight the populations belonging to or closely ressembling the two different clusters (Blue for Mizrahi and Red for Western Jewish) in your K15 results:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.1% Kurdish_Jewish + 47.9% Ashkenazi @ 3.95
2 52.4% Iranian_Jewish + 47.6% Ashkenazi @ 4.15
3 62.6% Kurdish_Jewish + 37.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.39
4 55.1% Libyan_Jewish + 44.9% Iranian @ 4.65
5 72.7% Samaritan + 27.3% Tabassaran @ 4.71
6 63.1% Iranian_Jewish + 36.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 4.79
7 53.9% Assyrian + 46.1% Ashkenazi @ 4.81
8 72.1% Samaritan + 27.9% Tadjik @ 4.82
9 72.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 27.1% Serbian @ 4.83
10 75.4% Kurdish_Jewish + 24.6% Moldavian @ 4.86
11 54.6% Libyan_Jewish + 45.4% Kurdish @ 4.92
12 74.2% Samaritan + 25.8% Afghan_Pashtun @ 4.94
13 70.8% Kurdish_Jewish + 29.2% Romanian @ 5.04
14 76.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 23.1% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.12
15 51.2% Libyan_Jewish + 48.8% Azeri @ 5.17
16 77.1% Kurdish_Jewish + 22.9% Hungarian @ 5.19
17 78.9% Kurdish_Jewish + 21.1% East_German @ 5.2
18 69.5% Kurdish_Jewish + 30.5% Bulgarian @ 5.2
19 77.1% Kurdish_Jewish + 22.9% Croatian @ 5.2
20 77.2% Iranian_Jewish + 22.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 5.28

The number you see on the right stands for genetic distance (GD), the closer to 0 the more accurate the fits tend to be. For instance, I can see you're mixed just by looking at the high GDs you get in the single population mode, notice the gap between the GDs in your fits and the GDs in the "single population sharing".

meir.t
05-29-2016, 10:38 PM
Aganeman - Yes that number is mine

Why are there these comparisons between all these ethnic groups? Are these all ones in my ancestry? Why are they being compared to one another?

Morges
05-29-2016, 10:40 PM
Try with MDLP K13 since there are many populations for Oracle there.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 10:41 PM
I will go on to study the software so I'll know how to interpret all this.

So what does all this say about my ancestry in terms of actual proportions from each background?

Agamemnon
05-29-2016, 10:47 PM
Aganeman - Yes that number is mine

Why are there these comparisons between all these ethnic groups? Are these all ones in my ancestry? Why are they being compared to one another?

The calculator is using these populations to proxy your ancestry based on the different components you have, this feature is called an "oracle". For example "Kurdish Jewish" is certainly due to your Bukharan Jewish ancestry while "Ashkenazi" is due to your Maghrebi Jewish ancestry, this is because Kurdish Jews cluster with Bukharan Jews, likewise Ashkenazim cluster with Maghrebi Jews.

If you have a hard time picturing this, just have a look at this crude yet useful PCA plot (a "genetic map" of sorts):

http://pichoster.net/images/2016/05/30/5jbkEdu.png


So what does all this say about my ancestry in terms of actual proportions from each background?

I'd say the Libyan Jewish + Iranian/Kurdish/Azeri fits make a lot of sense in your case, since Tunisian and Algerian Jews tend to resemble Libyan Jews more closely, while Bukharan Jews certainly seem to be on the Iranian-leaning part of the Mizrahi cluster. Like I said, you're basically half-Western Jewish half-Mizrahi. Nothing out of the usual here, I have a half-Moroccan Jewish half-Iraqi Jewish friend from Israel who is pretty much identical to you.

Agamemnon
05-29-2016, 11:04 PM
Try with MDLP K13 since there are many populations for Oracle there.

Here are his MDLP K13 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucas-Gedrosia 32.29
2 ENF 24.47
3 ANE 17.87
4 NearEast 16.58
5 WHG-UHG 3.28
6 Subsaharian 2.79
7 ASI 2.72

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian_Jew 4.59
2 Lebanese_Muslim 6.19
3 Lebanese_Druze 6.95
4 Greek-Islands 8.31
5 Cypriot 9.16
6 Lebanese 9.25
7 Muslim-Arabs-Israel 9.69
8 Jew_Tat 9.94
9 Lebanese_Christian 10.01
10 Sephardic 10.07
11 Cretan 10.13
12 Samaritian 10.13
13 Christian-Arabs-Israel 10.68
14 Azerbaijani_Jew 10.75
15 Sephardi_Jew 10.76
16 Turk 11.13
17 Algerian_Jewish 11.15
18 Palestinian 11.23
19 Turk_Jew 11.54
20 Syrian 11.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.7% Syrian_Jew + 16.3% Roma_Slovenian @ 1.18
2 82.8% Syrian_Jew + 17.2% Roma_BH @ 1.25
3 83.4% Syrian_Jew + 16.6% Roma @ 1.29
4 82.1% Syrian_Jew + 17.9% Roma_Bulgarian @ 1.31
5 55% Algerian_Jewish + 45% Uzbekistani_Jew @ 1.39
6 52% Moroccan_Jew + 48% Uzbekistani_Jew @ 1.43
7 83.6% Syrian_Jew + 16.4% Roma_Macedonian @ 1.55
8 93.3% Syrian_Jew + 6.7% GujaratiA_GIH @ 1.64
9 77.8% Christian-Arabs-Israel + 22.2% Tajik_Rushan @ 1.69
10 93.5% Syrian_Jew + 6.5% GujaratiB_GIH @ 1.72
11 93.5% Syrian_Jew + 6.5% Tiwari @ 1.73
12 76.8% Christian-Arabs-Israel + 23.2% Tajik_Rushanvanch @ 1.79
13 56.5% Libyan_Jew + 43.5% Baku_WGA @ 1.79
14 92.9% Syrian_Jew + 7.1% Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh @ 1.79
15 93% Syrian_Jew + 7% Marathi @ 1.82
16 93.3% Syrian_Jew + 6.7% Srivastava @ 1.86
17 77.3% Kurdish_Jew + 22.7% Spanish_Canarias_IBS @ 1.87
18 93% Syrian_Jew + 7% Vaish @ 1.87
19 74.3% Christian-Arabs-Israel + 25.7% Tajik_Yagnobi @ 1.88
20 93.4% Syrian_Jew + 6.6% Telugu_Kannada @ 1.9
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucas-Gedrosia 32.29
2 ENF 24.47
3 ANE 17.87
4 NearEast 16.58
5 WHG-UHG 3.28
6 Subsaharian 2.79
7 ASI 2.72


Finished reading population data. 662 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Syrian_Jew @ 5.080710
2 Lebanese_Muslim @ 6.663853
3 Lebanese_Druze @ 7.540388
4 Greek-Islands @ 8.789794
5 Muslim-Arabs-Israel @ 9.850910
6 Lebanese @ 10.159440
7 Cypriot @ 10.259125
8 Cretan @ 10.609815
9 Sephardic @ 10.882317
10 Jew_Tat @ 10.949626
11 Lebanese_Christian @ 11.003994
12 Samaritian @ 11.106111
13 Sephardi_Jew @ 11.667522
14 Turk @ 11.670788
15 Azerbaijani_Jew @ 11.823997
16 Christian-Arabs-Israel @ 11.873750
17 Azov_Greek @ 11.973619
18 Syrian @ 12.016846
19 Palestinian @ 12.029569
20 Jordanian @ 12.071122

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Moroccan_Jew +50% Uzbekistani_Jew @ 1.642135


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cypriot +25% Roma_BH +25% Syrian @ 1.212124


Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Georgian_Jews + Lebanese + Roma_BH + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.026204
2 Georgian_Jews + Roma_BH + Samaritian + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.032273
3 Algerian_Jewish + Assyrian_WGA + Roma_BH + Samaritian @ 1.034273
4 Georgian_Jew + Roma_BH + Samaritian + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.088898
5 Georgian_Jews + Lebanese_Christian + Libyan_Jew + Roma_BH @ 1.102339
6 Georgian_Jew + Lebanese + Roma_BH + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.119314
7 Assyrian_WGA + Lebanese + Roma_BH + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.124798
8 Georgian_Jew + Libyan_Jew + Roma_BH + Samaritian @ 1.143674
9 Georgian_Jew + Lebanese_Christian + Libyan_Jew + Roma_BH @ 1.153438
10 Assyrian_WGA + Lebanese + Libyan_Jew + Roma_BH @ 1.164096
11 Greek_Coriell + Libyan_Jew + Parsi + Samaritian @ 1.168531
12 Greek_Coriell + Palestinian + Parsi + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.170431
13 Iraqi_Jew + Lebanese + Roma_BH + Sephardi_Jew @ 1.179749
14 Georgian_Jew + Lebanese + Libyan_Jew + Roma_BH @ 1.186903
15 Assyrian_WGA + Roma_BH + Samaritian + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.197280
16 Iraqi_Jew + Roma_BH + Syrian_Jew + Tunisian_Jew @ 1.205313
17 Georgian_Jews + Libyan_Jew + Roma_BH + Samaritian @ 1.209458
18 Cypriot + Cypriot + Roma_BH + Syrian @ 1.212124
19 Georgian_Jews + Lebanese + Libyan_Jew + Roma_BH @ 1.221594
20 Druze + Moroccan_Jew + Moroccan_Jew + Parsi @ 1.223591

Some of the fits are spot on, I highlighted these in red.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 11:05 PM
Agamemnon - I think I kind of understand the logic of how its worked out but I won't go as far as to say that I fully understand it yet. This is really not my area of expertise I have no education at all in the area

Agamemnon
05-29-2016, 11:12 PM
Agamemnon - I think I kind of understand the logic of how its worked out but I won't go as far as to say that I fully understand it yet. This is really not my area of expertise I have no education at all in the area

Well, we all have to start somewhere don't we? By the way, did you see your MDLP K13 results? Some of the fits are spot on, here let me post them:

5 55% Algerian_Jewish + 45% Uzbekistani_Jew @ 1.39
6 52% Moroccan_Jew + 48% Uzbekistani_Jew @ 1.43
[...]
1 50% Moroccan_Jew +50% Uzbekistani_Jew @ 1.642135

meir.t
05-29-2016, 11:20 PM
Aganmenon - Yes thanks for your help in this. Are you educated in this fields of geneology or is this just a hobby?

Yes they look very accurate. The GD has gotten much lower. Moroccan Jews and Algerian Jews aren't that different. My maternal great grandmother even had a surname of 'Attias' which is Moroccan if I'm not mistaken

So this software's goal is to categorize you into a class. I was trying to see exactly my composition of backgrounds was as a matter of percentages. perhaps the dna.land does that

Morges
05-29-2016, 11:22 PM
Your backgroud fits close to actual Levantines indeed.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 11:33 PM
Morges - How do you reach that conclusion? I don't know if I'm looking at it right or not but on the Eurogenes K13 the results are:


Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.33
2 West_Asian 23.56
3 West_Med 13.79
4 Red_Sea 9.99
5 North_Atlantic 7.08
6 Baltic 5.04
7 South_Asian 4.53
8 Oceanian 0.84
9 Amerindian 0.68
10 Northeast_African 0.6
11 Sub-Saharan 0.56

East Mediterranean I suppose is the Levant which is the majority. Is that typical for northern African Jews?

West Asian would include gulf countries and Iran as well I suppose

West Mediterranean would be the Iberian and Italian parts

The red sea I'm not sure exactly what countries they would be talking about that they haven't discussed before maybe Egypt

Is there something that actually can break this down into individual countries?

Agamemnon
05-29-2016, 11:39 PM
Aganmenon - Yes thanks for your help in this. Are you educated in this fields of geneology or is this just a hobby?

Yes they look very accurate. The GD has gotten much lower. Moroccan Jews and Algerian Jews aren't that different. My maternal great grandmother even had a surname of 'Attias' which is Moroccan if I'm not mistaken

So this software's goal is to categorize you into a class. I was trying to see exactly my composition of backgrounds was as a matter of percentages. perhaps the dna.land does that

Population genetics has been a personal hobby of mine for nearly 10 years now, I'm a student in linguistics (with an interest in comparative and historical linguistics).

Actually there are subtle differences between Moroccan Jews and Algerian Jews, the former tend to be somewhat more similar to Ashkenazi and other Sephardic Jews for example, but this is hair-splitting for the most part.

Morges
05-29-2016, 11:39 PM
Morges - How do you reach that conclusion?
With Oracle scores.

meir.t
05-29-2016, 11:50 PM
Agamemron - Wow that's quite a leap from languages to science. I don't think it makes much of a difference in this case. I have worked in science in areas of DNA but not genetics and this is completely relatively new

In my case the Algerian I would say is closer with my Tunisian side because they were close to the shared border

meir.t
05-30-2016, 12:14 AM
Agamrenon - Just out of interest, which one (23andme or GEDmatch) would you say is more accurate?

This is the Eurogenes K36 admixture:

Population Percent
Arabian 8.63
Armenian 7.29
Basque 0.71
Central_Euro 1.40
East_Central_Euro 2.45
East_Med 22.04
Iberian 8.69
Italian 5.14
Near_Eastern 19.72
North_African 1.35
North_Caucasian 7.12
North_Sea 0.29
Oceanian 0.09
South_Central_Asian 8.29
West_Caucasian 4.93
West_Med 1.87


This is MUCH different from the 23andme results I've got a lot more European and less northern African

Luis
05-30-2016, 12:21 AM
I'm curious to know your JTest results.

meir.t
05-30-2016, 12:28 AM
I'm curious to know your JTest results.

EUtest Oracle results:
EUtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Kit M722730

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 35.09
2 WEST_ASIAN 19.81
3 MIDDLE_EASTERN 17.27
4 WEST_MED 9.23
5 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.91
6 ATLANTIC 3.9
7 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.63
8 SOUTH_BALTIC 3.58
9 EAST_EURO 2.36
10 EAST_AFRICAN 1.22

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 IQ 9.33
2 Mandean 10.33
3 Assyrian 10.5
4 TR 12.59
5 AJ 13.9
6 Armenian 14.29
7 GR 14.58
8 Kurdish 15.15
9 Samaritan 15.35
10 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 15.86
11 IR 16.23
12 Druze 17.55
13 Tuscan 26.96
14 GE 30.01
15 RO 30.12
16 North_Italian 31.08
17 Lezgin 31.6
18 Serbian 31.87
19 Algerian 32.92
20 Moroccan 35.71

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.7% Mandean + 42.3% AJ @ 2.58
2 61.6% IQ + 38.4% GR @ 2.71
3 79.2% Mandean + 20.8% PT @ 3.57
4 61.6% Mandean + 38.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 3.77
5 80.2% Mandean + 19.8% ES @ 3.85
6 76.3% Mandean + 23.7% North_Italian @ 3.9
7 64.6% IQ + 35.4% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.09
8 74% Mandean + 26% Tuscan @ 4.34
9 81.4% Mandean + 18.6% FR @ 4.49
10 59.9% Mandean + 40.1% GR @ 4.53
11 58.2% Assyrian + 41.8% AJ @ 4.61
12 76.7% IQ + 23.3% Tuscan @ 4.69
13 68.2% Samaritan + 31.8% Lezgin @ 4.77
14 79.2% Assyrian + 20.8% Moroccan @ 4.91
15 62.2% IQ + 37.8% AJ @ 5.01
16 55.7% TR + 44.3% Samaritan @ 5.03
17 81% Mandean + 19% AT @ 5.03
18 76.7% Mandean + 23.3% RO @ 5.03
19 77.9% Assyrian + 22.1% Algerian @ 5.05
20 79.7% Mandean + 20.3% Moroccan @ 5.06

I've done it through the website although from what I've read this test is more applicable for Ashkenazi Jews

Luis
05-30-2016, 01:19 AM
Your results reflect the EuTest, but not the Jtest. The JTest would give you an AJ score too. I wonder how much you would score.

meir.t
05-30-2016, 02:54 AM
Your results reflect the EuTest, but not the Jtest. The JTest would give you an AJ score too. I wonder how much you would score.

Oh sorry my bad

Here's the one you wanted:

Jtest Oracle results:
Jtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Kit M722730

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 33.68
2 WEST_ASIAN 19.07
3 MIDDLE_EASTERN 16.28
4 WEST_MED 8.56
5 ASHKENAZI 5.54
6 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.87
7 SOUTH_BALTIC 3.46
8 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.27
9 ATLANTIC 3.17
10 EAST_EURO 1.96
11 EAST_AFRICAN 1.13

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 IQ 9.42
2 Mandean 10.04
3 Assyrian 10.38
4 TR 12.31
5 Armenian 14.25
6 GR 14.65
7 Samaritan 15
8 Kurdish 15.03
9 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 15.49
10 IR 16.09
11 Druze 17.47
12 Tuscan 26.98
13 AJ 27.57
14 GE 29.76
15 RO 29.99
16 North_Italian 31.01
17 Lezgin 31.25
18 Serbian 31.63
19 Algerian 32.81
20 Moroccan 35.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.5% IQ + 38.5% GR @ 2.8
2 79.7% Mandean + 20.3% PT @ 3.67
3 61.7% Mandean + 38.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 3.68
4 80.7% Mandean + 19.3% ES @ 3.93
5 76.9% Mandean + 23.1% North_Italian @ 3.93
6 63.8% IQ + 36.2% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.07
7 74.7% Mandean + 25.3% Tuscan @ 4.38
8 60.8% Mandean + 39.2% GR @ 4.52
9 81.9% Mandean + 18.1% FR @ 4.53
10 55.6% TR + 44.4% Samaritan @ 4.71
11 68.5% Samaritan + 31.5% Lezgin @ 4.8
12 76.6% IQ + 23.4% Tuscan @ 4.83
13 79.5% Assyrian + 20.5% Moroccan @ 5.01
14 77.3% Mandean + 22.7% RO @ 5.01
15 81.5% Mandean + 18.5% AT @ 5.04
16 80.2% Mandean + 19.8% Moroccan @ 5.04
17 81.2% Mandean + 18.8% HU @ 5.07
18 78.2% Assyrian + 21.8% Algerian @ 5.1
19 78.3% Mandean + 21.7% Serbian @ 5.14
20 85.6% Mandean + 14.4% French_Basque @ 5.21

It seems that I do have significant Ashkenazi makeup at 5.54% which is odd because on 23andme it said 1.3%. I really am not an expert in this so I don't what exactly constitutes an accurate result but I think this might be less accurate because population origins in the mixed mode population sharing don't exactly reflect my background

crossover
05-30-2016, 03:09 AM
they fixed the balkan {my grandmother is bulgarian and they used bulgarian for refrence yet i score only 7.5% balkan i should have scored 15-20%}
meir t i am excited because ther are not many sefhardics in gedmatch or in dna land .{most aschenazi}.
i was wrong you are correct that more likely your southern european component will be iberian
lets wait .
regards
adam

nah my grandpa's balkan component hasn't change since last update

meir.t
05-30-2016, 03:13 AM
Could anyone with sufficient knowledge help me to actually summarise what all this means? I get quite varying results with each test and its not clearest which is in fact the one that is the most accurate

Táltos
05-30-2016, 03:53 AM
I always imagined the middle east as kind of including northern Africa. I didn't think Northern Africa was that much different ethnically from the proper middle east. What's odd is that I hardly have 'North Africa' showing up and mostly middle eastern origin being observed.

What me a bit sceptical about the results is that when I change it from 'speculative' to 'standard' and 'conservative' the % of unassigned ancestry goes to 17.5% for 'standard' and an ever worse 61.1% for conservative

The conservative mode is the worst. Basically it is saying they are only 50% sure they can assign a certain ancestry. I share with several African Americans at 23andme and their Unassigned in conservative is from 65-70%. My mom in conservative gets 20.7% Unassigned, my result is 11.3 Unassigned. I feel my result in Speculative is not too bad. For me personally I don't mind 23andme's results; though I realize they have a way to go with perfecting their calculator. Out of all the commercial companies I have liked 23andme the best.

I do have a DNA match there who is a Moroccan Jew. He receives 63% Unassigned in conservative view. Here are his results in speculative.


61.0% Middle Eastern & North African
46.1% North African
9.8% Middle Eastern
5.1% Broadly Middle Eastern & North African

37.5% European

Southern European
17.1% Italian
1.4% Iberian
7.5% Broadly Southern European
5.4% Ashkenazi
0.1% Eastern European

6.1% Broadly European
1.4% Unassigned

On a personal note for me I was not aware of having any Jewish ancestry. When I first did an autosomal test with FTDNA four years ago I received several Jewish matches on one of my chromosomes. When my brother tested his Y DNA he turned out to have a certain subclade of Q1b that is carried by Jewish men. I wasn't completely surprised by these results as my father has roots in Lithuania and Poland. My 23andme result also shows a small amount of Middle Eastern. My mother was tested there too, and in split mode surprisingly almost all of my small amount of Middle Eastern was assigned to be from my father. I say surprisingly as my mother has ancestry from Southern Italy, and people from there tend to have Middle Eastern in their admixture results.

I became intrigued with the Sephardic DNA when Dr. McDonald indicated that some of my results had Sephardic DNA that my mother did not have. The first time he analyzed my results he said I had no Jewish DNA. I asked him to read them again when I heard he had new samples from Poland, Sicily. He had also obtained Sephardic ones at that time too. Dr. McDonald rarely does readings anymore though. He is a legend among us die hard DNA calculator fans. :) Here is a link from 23andme that helps people look for Sephardic DNA in their tests. It will help explain about the Southern European element. https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/12795/ (Though might be outdated because Countries of Ancestry is gone on 23andme. Also Dr. McDonald rarely gives readings anymore). EDIT- adding the newer link to this mega thread on 23andme. https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/16383/

I may never really be able to link up when my direct paternal ancestor converted to Christianity. I think I have some loose links to the past through my DNA matches. I was able to confirm that one of my Jewish matches at FTDNA (who I share the largest amount of DNA among my Jewish matches) is a Romanian Jew. Once this became apparent I was able to see that the other Jews this match also had in common are with other Romanian Jews. This *might* account for the apparent Sephardic DNA that I have found in my admixture tests, and among my matches. http://www.yivoencyclopedia.org/article.aspx/sephardim

So again thank you for testing, and sharing your results! And I told you a lot of people are very interested in Sepharidc DNA. You already have 7 pages in your thread here. :)

crossover
05-30-2016, 03:53 AM
Could anyone with sufficient knowledge help me to actually summarise what all this means? I get quite varying results with each test and its not clearest which is in fact the one that is the most accurate

the best way i can explain the oracle is that it predicts what population(or in the case of multi-component oracles,populations) is your dna most similar too, in regards to what populations did the admix calculator get averages of. for example eurogenes oracles got the averages of more european populations than compared to those eslewhere

i.e. if someone gets 1 50% Mayan +50% Spanish_Murcia @ 6.512455 in the two populations oracle, they are the most similar to someone is who is half native half european.

Táltos
05-30-2016, 03:59 AM
Could anyone with sufficient knowledge help me to actually summarise what all this means? I get quite varying results with each test and its not clearest which is in fact the one that is the most accurate

All the calculators will give different results. They just depend on what populations they are using. They try to put you into a "best fit" with the ones they are using. The best thing to do is to look for patterns across all of them such as same populations that keep coming up.

Look at Agamemnon's explanations again. They are really good! Don't try to force all of it in at once. Don't worry it will start to make sense eventually. We all had to learn and we keep learning which makes this such an exciting hobby!

E_M81_I3A
05-30-2016, 05:46 AM
Morges - How do you reach that conclusion? I don't know if I'm looking at it right or not but on the Eurogenes K13 the results are:


Population Percent
1 East_Med 33.33
2 West_Asian 23.56
3 West_Med 13.79
4 Red_Sea 9.99
5 North_Atlantic 7.08
6 Baltic 5.04
7 South_Asian 4.53
8 Oceanian 0.84
9 Amerindian 0.68
10 Northeast_African 0.6
11 Sub-Saharan 0.56

East Mediterranean I suppose is the Levant which is the majority. Is that typical for northern African Jews?

West Asian would include gulf countries and Iran as well I suppose

West Mediterranean would be the Iberian and Italian parts

The red sea I'm not sure exactly what countries they would be talking about that they haven't discussed before maybe Egypt

Is there something that actually can break this down into individual countries?

Here are some Algerian/Tunisian Jews Eurogenes K13 results to compare with :

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/427433AlgerianJew1.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=427433AlgerianJew1.jpg)

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/440980TunisianJew.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=440980TunisianJew.jpg)

The main difference is that they have some small West/East African percentages.

kingjohn
05-30-2016, 07:27 AM
another diffrence is that they have higher north atlantic than meir
13% in the algerian guy is much closer to aschenazi and balkan sefhardi values who show 15%.{more southern european genes }
it is expected since meir is only half algerian/tunisian.
meir t some explanation on eurogenes k36.
http://bga101.blogspot.co.il/2013/03/eurogenes-k36-at-gedmatch.html
regards
adam

Odyss
05-30-2016, 08:18 AM
You're basically mixed, so at the end of the day , your results are going to be blurred because calculators arent made to analyze a heavy mixed person like you.

tippy
05-30-2016, 08:58 AM
Sorry I didn't get back to you. It seems everyone's done a better job explaining things anyway. Do you wanna see something scary though?


your eurogenes eutest

# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 35.09
2 WEST_ASIAN 19.81
3 MIDDLE_EASTERN 17.27
4 WEST_MED 9.23
5 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.91
6 ATLANTIC 3.9
7 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.63
8 SOUTH_BALTIC 3.58
9 EAST_EURO 2.36
10 EAST_AFRICAN 1.22

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 IQ 9.33
2 Mandean 10.33
3 Assyrian 10.5
4 TR 12.59
5 AJ 13.9
6 Armenian 14.29
7 GR 14.58
8 Kurdish 15.15
9 Samaritan 15.35
10 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 15.86

Mine

# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 35.86
2 WEST_ASIAN 23.96
3 MIDDLE_EASTERN 17.79
4 WEST_MED 7.2
5 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.48
6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.24
7 ATLANTIC 2.51
8 EAST_AFRICAN 2.4
9 EAST_ASIAN 1.22
10 WEST_AFRICAN 1.03
11 EAST_EURO 0.95
12 SIBERIAN 0.34
13 SOUTH_BALTIC 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Mandean 7.31
2 Assyrian 7.84
3 IQ 8.6
4 TR 11.93
5 Armenian 11.95
6 Kurdish 13.42
7 IR 14.7
8 Samaritan 16.41
9 Druze 18.05
10 AJ 18.36

Your JTest

# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 33.68
2 WEST_ASIAN 19.07
3 MIDDLE_EASTERN 16.28
4 WEST_MED 8.56
5 ASHKENAZI 5.54
6 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.87
7 SOUTH_BALTIC 3.46
8 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 3.27
9 ATLANTIC 3.17
10 EAST_EURO 1.96
11 EAST_AFRICAN 1.13

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 IQ 9.42
2 Mandean 10.04
3 Assyrian 10.38
4 TR 12.31
5 Armenian 14.25
6 GR 14.65
7 Samaritan 15
8 Kurdish 15.03
9 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 15.49
10 IR 16.09


Mine


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 33.4
2 WEST_ASIAN 22.58
3 MIDDLE_EASTERN 16.03
4 ASHKENAZI 9.72 (I'm more ashkenazi than you lol :D)
5 WEST_MED 6.02
6 SOUTH_ASIAN 3.4
7 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 2.61
8 EAST_AFRICAN 2.17
9 EAST_ASIAN 1.17
10 WEST_AFRICAN 1.16
11 ATLANTIC 1.13
12 SIBERIAN 0.34
13 EAST_EURO 0.28
14 SOUTH_BALTIC 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Mandean 8.08
2 Assyrian 8.99
3 IQ 10.14
4 TR 12.37
5 Armenian 12.51
6 Kurdish 13.94
7 IR 15.22
8 Samaritan 17.12
9 GR 18.85
10 Druze 18.9
11 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 19.32



We are still similar on other tests but these eurogenes ones are uncanny. Basically it looks like our middle east/Mediterranean/south asian results are all very similar but you have a bit more central euro and I have a little bit more east/other african. I fixed my kit if you want to compare results: M719392

kingjohn
05-30-2016, 09:35 AM
just for you guys to see the picture
here is eurogenes k13 results of pure sefhardic jew from greece who i match on x chromosome:

North_Atlantic 16.26
Baltic 0.85 {extremely low the main diffrence between aschenazi and sefhardics is that eastern aschenazi score 10% baltic}
West_Med 21.44
West_Asian 14.64
East_Med 34.23
Red_Sea 10.28
South_Asian 0.09
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.07
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.24
Northeast_African 1.37
Sub-Saharan 0.53

regards
adam

p.s i ask his cousin to upload is raw data to dna land
we got a great chance to see results of pure sefhardics and i expect some southern european components to show up.

meir.t
05-30-2016, 09:36 AM
You're basically mixed, so at the end of the day , your results are going to be blurred because calculators arent made to analyze a heavy mixed person like you.

Basically you have Levantine(Jewish) , North African(Berber) , Southern European (not sure what kind specificially) , Mesopotamian(Mandean-like) and Iranic (ancient pre-Turkic Uzbekistan/Central Asian) ancestry all mixed at once.

What makes you think that the Levantine is Jewish?

What I'm interested in is how these results would compare to non-Jews from those same countries, as in whether there is a significant difference

meir.t
05-30-2016, 09:40 AM
tippy - Does this in fact mean that you have Ashkenazi background? I'm just asking because my JTest results don't relate to the 23andme results so much

meir.t
05-30-2016, 09:42 AM
What countries does the 'North Atlantic' correspond to?

tippy
05-30-2016, 10:09 AM
No it just means that slightly more of my dna 'looks' similar to the populations that the ashkenazi component peaks in (I'm assuming that means ashkenazi jews). These calculators (as far as my limited understanding goes) don't tell you what percentage of your ancestry comes from which areas. What they do is setup a number of components using some fairly uniform sample groups, they then slice up your dna into bits and tell you roughly which components those bits look most similar to. So in this one jtest calculator 6% of your dna looks like or is most similar to the ashkenazi component while 9% of mine does. What you can then do with your sliced up dna is compare yourself to other groups and individuals (ie how similar or different your composition looks like theres) and then the oracles can model you as a mix of two or more populations.

I don't have any recent jewish ancestry, I have a distant jewish ancestor but I think the reason I have lots of jewish cousins on 23andme is because a lot of jewish folks have ancient/medieval and even recent levantine ancestry.

tippy
05-30-2016, 10:12 AM
North Atlantic peaks in Danes, Dutch, French Basque, Irish, West Scottish, South Eastern English. I imagine it's just a north western European component.

kingjohn
05-30-2016, 10:19 AM
the north atlantic is european component
but to know which genes are behaind it you need eurogenes k36.
in your case the north atlantic has{iberian and italian behaind}
if a german or english person will do eurogens k36{ behaind will be north atlantic {refrence sample cornwall england}and north sea {refrence sample kent }northen european components}
i can tell you this sefhardi show 0% north atlantic and 0% north sea in eurogenes k36 but he has high italian and iberian .
best regards
adam

Luis
05-30-2016, 07:52 PM
@meir.t

I do not have AJ ancestry, but the Jtest gives me almost 8%, actually 7.89% AJ, and 7.43% Middle Eastern. Based on their charts, Moroccans, other North Africans and Sicilians/Southern Italians come close to that AJ average, mine is a little higher than their average. However, I'm neither Moroccan nor Sicilian, most of my ancestry is Iberian/Southern European and I'm Cuban. 23andMe, on the other hand, gives me 0.1 AJ. FTDNA's My Origins gives me 7% North African and so does Ancestry. DNA Land gives me 9% North African and 18% "Ashkenazi-Levantine", of which 15% is Mediterranean Islands and 3% is "Ambiguous". On the other hand, I've read of some people who hava bona fide AJ ancestry, but their Jtest % is lower than mine. So I would say that your Jtest "AJ"% is normal. I think Tippy gave a good explanation as to why that happens.

meir.t
05-31-2016, 09:17 AM
I've obtained the results of the dna.land. I'll put them on now on the DNA.land page

MINARD777
07-27-2016, 06:28 AM
Interesting... This is not typical, but maybe because the results I saw were from Turkey. They scored slightly higher Ashkenazi and Italian. It was more like an Italkim result.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 06:30 AM
Sephardim are somewhere between southern Italians and Ashkenazim on one hand, and Cypriots on the other. They are less admixed with Europeans though they have the same founder population as Ashkenazim. They split off in Europe, after the diaspora.

MINARD777
07-27-2016, 06:34 AM
Sephardim are somewhere between southern Italians and Ashkenazim on one hand, and Cypriots on the other. They are less admixed with Europeans though they have the same founder population as Ashkenazim. They split off in Europe, after the diaspora.

Yes. I know, but this low Ashkenazi score is weird. Syrian Jews score more "Ashkenazi" than this, and so do some Samaritans. Isn't that a bit odd? I've seen he 10-30% range for Sephardi and Syrian Jews as well as Samaritans.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 06:37 AM
Yes. I know, but this low Ashkenazi score is weird. Syrian Jews score more "Ashkenazi" than this, and so do some Samaritans. Isn't that a bit odd? I've seen he 10-30% range for Sephardi and Syrian Jews as well as Samaritans.

Moroccan Jews might not be from that same split that occurred in Europe. Ashkenazim are very interrelated in a way Moroccan Jews are probably not.

MINARD777
07-27-2016, 06:49 AM
Moroccan Jews might not be from that same split that occurred in Europe. Ashkenazim are very interrelated in a way Moroccan Jews are probably not.

On Gedmatch he is basically Lebanese... I don't know about this guy's ancestry. I even have Assyrians sharing with me with 9% Ashkenazi, and Syrian Jews with 30%.

MINARD777
07-27-2016, 06:53 AM
Why is your Ashkenazi so low? Are you sure you are not adopted or something? I have a half Sephardi person (other half is Bosniak) who scored 14% even on 23nme.

kingjohn
07-27-2016, 09:05 AM
because sefhardi populations{morroco , algeria} didn't mixed with aschenazi community
on contrary to turkish and bulgarian jews who did
aschenazi jews from bavaria 1470 and from hungary 1376 came to bulgaria
and i guess there was also a migration of asachenazi to turkey since turkish jews do show aschenazi in 23and me.
regards
adam

p.s
morrocan and algerian jews were less efected by migration of aschenazi jews who run a way most of them arrived to the balkan instead

MINARD777
07-29-2016, 09:51 PM
because sefhardi populations{morroco , algeria} didn't mixed with aschenazi community
on contrary to turkish and bulgarian jews who did
aschenazi jews from bavaria 1470 and from hungary 1376 came to bulgaria
and i guess there was also a migration of asachenazi to turkey since turkish jews do show aschenazi in 23and me.
regards
adam

p.s
morrocan and algerian jews were less efected by migration of aschenazi jews who run a way most of them arrived to the balkan instead

You do not plot near Sephardi, even Samaritans have more Ashkenazi, and the admixture doesn't match up well. Are you sure you were not adopted and are Lebanese? XD.

kingjohn
07-29-2016, 09:57 PM
i assumed you are talking to meir t
because i am 30 % aschenazi :)
any way what i explain to you is why morocan jews and algerian jews score so low%
aschenazi in 23and me or dna land read above .
best regards
adam


p.s
from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Turkey
The number of native Jews was soon bolstered by small groups of Ashkenazi Jews that immigrated to the Ottoman Empire between 1421 and 1453.[14] Among these new Ashkenazi immigrants was Rabbi Yitzhak Sarfati, a German-born Jew of French descent[16] (Hebrew: צרפתי – Sarfati, meaning: "French"), who became the Chief Rabbi of Edirne and wrote a letter inviting the European Jewry to settle in the Ottoman Empire, in which he stated that: "Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking" and asking: "Is it not better for you to live under Muslims than under Christians?"[16][17]

MINARD777
08-02-2016, 02:48 AM
i assumed you are talking to meir t
because i am 30 % aschenazi :)
any way what i explain to you is why morocan jews and algerian jews score so low%
aschenazi in 23and me or dna land read above .
best regards
adam


p.s
from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Turkey
The number of native Jews was soon bolstered by small groups of Ashkenazi Jews that immigrated to the Ottoman Empire between 1421 and 1453.[14] Among these new Ashkenazi immigrants was Rabbi Yitzhak Sarfati, a German-born Jew of French descent[16] (Hebrew: צרפתי – Sarfati, meaning: "French"), who became the Chief Rabbi of Edirne and wrote a letter inviting the European Jewry to settle in the Ottoman Empire, in which he stated that: "Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking" and asking: "Is it not better for you to live under Muslims than under Christians?"[16][17]

No, that does not explain. Listen, closely. Samaritans score around 25%, Assyrians (not even Jews!) have scored 9%, I share with some of these people on 23nme, I know. It is not possible for a sephardic Jew from anywhere to have such a low %.

meir.t
04-23-2017, 09:13 AM
To MINARD777:

Sorry, only saw this post now roughly a year after it was sent! I am definitely half of sephardic descent that is not disputed and half of Bukharan Jewish descent (which may be why the Ashkenazi percentage is so low?)

Perhaps it could be that my grandparents came from a region of Algeria that did not have many migrating from Europe? The city if I'm not mistaken that my grandfather was from is called "El Oued" which is more southern than the main cities that you would expect migrants to go to.

meir.t
04-23-2017, 09:15 AM
It should also be taken to mind that not all Sephardic populations are the same. Based on where they lived geographically I imagine that there would be significant differences ancestry wise. Sephardim from Turkey and Bulgaria I imagine would be extremely different from Sephardim from Algeria and Tunisia

aef
07-19-2017, 05:23 PM
I have received my results today from 23andme but they are not as detailed as I would have imagined

Results:

85% Middle eastern and North African:
- 70% Middle eastern
- 13% North African
- 1.5% broadly middle eastern and north African

14.0% European
- 6.2% Italian
- 3.3% Broadly southern European
- 1.2% Ashkenazi
- 3.2% Broadly European

0.3% East Asian and Native American

This is not what I expected because two of my grandparents are from north Africa and two other are from Uzbekistan (all sides are Jewish)

Does anyone have any opinion on this? What things could I do to get more information out of my results from 23andme?

These are the haplotypes on the paternal and maternal side:

maternal -


paternal -




Hi meir.t, I'm a reporter at the Forward (you can verify by searching 'ari feldman' at forward[dot]com). I'm working on an article about 23andMe, and I'm interested in your experience as a Sephardic Jew who only got a few percent Jewish on 23andMe's analysis. Would you be willing to speak to me about that? Feel free to email at feldman[at]forward[dot]com.

Thanks!
Ari

Claudio
07-20-2017, 06:10 PM
It should also be taken to mind that not all Sephardic populations are the same. Based on where they lived geographically I imagine that there would be significant differences ancestry wise. Sephardim from Turkey and Bulgaria I imagine would be extremely different from Sephardim from Algeria and Tunisia

Upload your 23andMe raw data to FTDNA will cost $20 for ethnicity report but they test for Separdic..
Also upload your 23andMe data for free to MyHeritage as they test for both Separdic and Mizrati Jewish and few other varietys of Jew and ethnicity report is also free 🍻

Agamemnon
07-20-2017, 06:39 PM
Hi meir.t, I'm a reporter at the Forward (you can verify by searching 'ari feldman' at forward[dot]com). I'm working on an article about 23andMe, and I'm interested in your experience as a Sephardic Jew who only got a few percent Jewish on 23andMe's analysis. Would you be willing to speak to me about that? Feel free to email at feldman[at]forward[dot]com.

Thanks!
Ari

It's been a long time since he last was online.

Targum
07-21-2017, 02:46 PM
To MINARD777:

Sorry, only saw this post now roughly a year after it was sent! I am definitely half of sephardic descent that is not disputed and half of Bukharan Jewish descent (which may be why the Ashkenazi percentage is so low?)

Perhaps it could be that my grandparents came from a region of Algeria that did not have many migrating from Europe? The city if I'm not mistaken that my grandfather was from is called "El Oued" which is more southern than the main cities that you would expect migrants to go to.

The answer is, IMHO, the Bukharan Jewish component. Bukharans are Mizrahi outliers, far-flung descendants of Persian Jews, but separated from the core of Iraq-Iran Mizrahi Jewry for a long time. Mizrahi Jews anyway lack most of the Greco-Italian and N. African admixture that Western Jews have.

kingjohn
07-21-2017, 10:01 PM
the mizrahi also lack the Iberian element that western Jews have
in eurogenes k36 they score 3%
modern levantines score between 0-3% iberian in eurogenes k36 extremely low .
while western Jews much higher
and Sephardi Balkan Jews score 13-16% Iberian in k36 so the element is there and the western jews acquired it in Europe probably in Mediterranean Europe