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meir.t
05-31-2016, 09:21 AM
Here is my dna.land results following my 23andme results

meir.t
05-31-2016, 09:33 AM
what's interesting is that this hardly has any north African in it despite me having two grandparents from northern Africa.

There is however 8.8% Sardinian which could explain the north African results partially perhaps given that I have a Tunisian side and its quite close to it

Shaikorth
05-31-2016, 09:39 AM
what's interesting is that this hardly has any north African in it despite me having two grandparents from northern Africa.

There is however 8.8% Sardinian which could explain the north African results partially perhaps given that I have a Tunisian side and its quite close to it

23andMe's North African includes populations that are "Arab/Egyptian" in DNAland as well as those that are North African in it.

meir.t
05-31-2016, 09:50 AM
23andMe's North African includes populations that are "Arab/Egyptian" in DNAland as well as those that are North African in it.

I suppose that's true. Still, I would have thought I would have at bit more North African in me since Jews of North Africa do have quite a long presence in the area. It goes up to perhaps 2,000 years supposedly

kingjohn
05-31-2016, 10:17 AM
very cool results
14% southwest european {sardinian+iberian you got it from your sefhardic ancestors who got it by mixing with iberians}
you score indo-iranian and also central indoeuropean these components are probably from your uzbekistan side.
no explanation in my part for your balkan 11% maybe something neolithic in your genome.
and some aschenazi 8% cool man .....
best regards
adam


p.s i am surprised you didn't scored the italian component
will see what the full sefhardi from greece will get .
if i was you i would take the first flight to sardinia so cool ...... :)

tippy
05-31-2016, 10:24 AM
North African in my opinion actually draws out East/NorthEast/Central/SSA African and not 'North African' in the Berber/Arab/Jew sense. Most people who score North African seem to actually be scoring the same amount that gedmatch tests label 'other african' (which once again covers northeast african,, east african, west african, south african).

The Arab/Egyptian component seems to cover southwest asian/north african.

meir.t
05-31-2016, 10:52 AM
kingjohn - Sardinia is part of Italy no? It is separate physically from mainland Italy so it could be a bit different I suppose. Yes I don't know where the Balkan could possibly be from maybe from my maternal side somehow.

For the central indoeuropean it said that it includes Includes: Abkhasian in Abkhazia; Armenian in Armenia; Georgian/Megrels in Georgia; Iranian in Iran; Druze in (Carmel) Israel; Balkar, Chechen, Kumyk, Lezgin, North Ossetian and Adygei in (Caucasus and 5 other sites) Russia and Turkish in (Adana, Aydin, Balikesir, Istanbul, Kayseri, Trabzon and 1 other site) Turkey

That doesn't have Uzbekistan there I don't know if that counts or not.


'

meir.t
05-31-2016, 10:53 AM
Why is there such a big difference in the Ashkenazi percentage? Here its 8% and 23andme said about 1.5% or something. That's a big difference its not really clear which is more accurate

tippy
05-31-2016, 11:29 AM
My general advise is to ignore 23andme's ancestry composition, stick with dna.land and gedmatch.


Uzbeks are not quite similar to Uzbek Jews. Uzbek Jews are more West/SouthWest Asian and less Central and North/East Asian and less North East European too. I think Uzbek jews would score quite hightly on Central Indo European but they would have other components too. For comparison, uzbek v uzbek jew scores from MDLP World.

Uzbek v Uzbek Jew

Caucaus_Parsia 27.27 v 41.85 (Roughly corresponds to Central Indo European)
MidEast 5.62 v 32.89 (Arab/Egyptian + Mediterranean Islander)
Indian 8.00 v 2.75 (Indo-Iranian or Indus Valley)
SW Euro 10.48 v 18.98 (Italian + maybe Ashkenazi?)
NE Euro 11.30 v 1.93 (Atlantic)
East Asian 19.76 v 0.09
North Asian 15.71 v 0.59

kingjohn
05-31-2016, 11:39 AM
i think 23and me is more presice on decide how much aschenazi you have
/
you just match on certin allells that are common for aschenazi refrence thats what i understand {from kurd}.
afcorse sardinian are also italian
but dna land put them in another category under south west european category
while the italian{refrence: tuscan ,bergamo} and balkan{refrence :greek ,albanian,bulgarian} are under another category south european category

best regards
adam

p.s other than the aschenazi your results look logic

Morges
05-31-2016, 11:46 AM
I had to imagine more Ashkenazi admix.

tippy
05-31-2016, 12:08 PM
I'm not an expert on this but aren't ashkenazis highly mixed anyway? In the sense that aren't they basically a three way mix of 'East Central Euro', 'Italian' and 'Cypriot/Levant/ENF'? If that is the case, how is anyone going to ever be able to determine their specific Ashkenazi admix? let's say you wanted to determine how much Bedouin ancestry you have, this would be easy as the Bediouns have a component that is pretty much all there's or that peaks in them (Red Sea), you could also easily tell how much Samaritan ancestry you had (East Med component), whereas with a people who are a rough blend of multiple and different components - is determining specific Ashkenazi admix - especially when your ancestry is from groups with similar components to the ashkenazi - is this going to be doable?

I can imagine it would be easy if you were lets say mixed Chinese and Ashkenazi, whereas if you are mixed Sephardi/uzbeki jewish how can you determine which of the component scores come from your ashkenazi admix and which don't?

Genuine question - not a rhetorical point.

Ignis90
05-31-2016, 12:10 PM
DNA land highly underestimates Northwest African/Berber related ancestry in non-Northwest Africans. You should use gedmatch.com instead and you might also be able to get an answer from Dr McDonald if you mention your "rare" ancestry in the title of your e-mail.

tippy
05-31-2016, 12:30 PM
I think that component is hidden in Arab/Egyptian but I'm yet to see any berber dna land results.

meir.t
05-31-2016, 12:48 PM
DNA land highly underestimates Northwest African/Berber related ancestry in non-Northwest Africans. You should use gedmatch.com instead and you might also be able to get an answer from Dr McDonald if you mention your "rare" ancestry in the title of your e-mail.

Who is Dr Macdonald? And how would I get hold of him?

tippy
05-31-2016, 01:23 PM
He's a university professor who has an interest in population genetics, he used to run his own analysis project but he doesn't seem to respond to people except those who he finds exotic or rare (so you may have a chance). I'd recommend you send an email with a vague description of your ethnic background, a request for a plot/analysis and your 23andme raw data. His email address is: jdmcdona@illinois.edu

Have a look at this thread for some example results from users here:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?22-Your-Dr-McDonald-Results/page21&highlight=mcdonald

Also I would recommend interpretome to look at some PCA plots and where you'd fit on them

http://interpretome.com/#pca

George Chandler
05-31-2016, 02:13 PM
It's amazing the difference in the analysis from one to the next. My DNA.Land results show 49% Eastern European/Northern Slavic (Belorussian, Estonian, Lithuanian, Russian and Ukranian) which is correct on my maternal side. It's showing 29% North Central European (Scottish Argyll, Bute, England, Icelandic in Iceland, Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian) as positive matches. It also shows 21% Italian which I never seen before until now (Italian Bergamo, & Italian Tuscany for a few). Another 1.2% Ambig (Egypt and Levantine Israel).

If there are Italian matches then they must be from my maternal side because I don't see any Italian ancestry on my paternal side that would give a 21% return? Given the high percentage of Eastern European from my mothers side I'm guessing this only goes back 5-7 generations in terms of a profile?

George

kingjohn
05-31-2016, 03:03 PM
there are some french in this forum who score italianand the russian forum molgen there are also some eastern european .
god knows what this component represent
could be roman soldiers , latin blood, the italian component also exist in some balkan
groups so it could be present in balkan pre slavic migration.
so george chandler you are not alone !!!:)
regards
adam

p.s take a look buttom of the page member don http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,8508.390.html

Táltos
05-31-2016, 05:17 PM
no explanation in my part for your balkan 11% maybe something neolithic in your genome



DNA Land is overestimating Balkan for many people. Myself included. They are supposed to be working on this issue.

E_M81_I3A
06-03-2016, 06:22 PM
I am posting also in this thread the Algerian Jew results I posted on "DnaLand Update" :

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/953159AlgerianJewDnaLand.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=953159AlgerianJewDnaLand.jpg)

wandering_amorite
06-03-2016, 06:42 PM
^ The lack of Iberian/SW European is kind of surprising.

E_M81_I3A
06-03-2016, 06:54 PM
^ The lack of Iberian/SW European is kind of surprising.

Yes I noticed that in fact North African Jews show almost no Iberian ancestry at 23andme as well :

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5048-23andme-results-of-North-African-Jews&p=154179#post154179

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?5048-23andme-results-of-North-African-Jews&p=160564#post160564

wandering_amorite
06-03-2016, 07:07 PM
I'm wondering: is there any test that indicates substantial Iberian ancestry for Sephardim? Or, as with Ashkenazim, is the largest piece of European ancestry definitely Italian, with Iberian ancestry corresponding to French/German/Polish-Lithuanian ancestry in Ashkenazim?

meir.t
06-10-2016, 01:14 AM
^ The lack of Iberian/SW European is kind of surprising.

I did find that a bit odd as well. I did however read of a migration of Jews from Livorno to Tunisia so that could partially explain the Italian origin (although it was Sardinian)

My dad did tell me (independently) of his grandfather having an old Livorno Siddur (prayer book) so there could be something there.

The lack of a more significant Spanish origin still is a bit surprising

meir.t
06-10-2016, 05:04 PM
Does anyone know what the Central Indo-European possibly related to for my ancestry?

wandering_amorite
06-10-2016, 05:22 PM
Central Indo-European is a really terribly named, and terribly-conceived, category. It could just be indicating any elevated Northern Near Eastern/Caucasus ancestry — as kingjohn said earlier, this is pretty normal for Uzbek Jews, who, like Iraqi and Iranian Jews, are particularly genetically close to Assyrians and Armenians. Also, fwiw, Druze are included in the Central Indo-European reference group, which is completely nonsensical, but must be kept in mind.

Swiss
08-06-2016, 02:09 PM
https://s20.postimg.org/jt4r13qal/dna_land_ancestry_composition_hq_censored.png

Morges
08-06-2016, 02:48 PM
https://s20.postimg.org/jt4r13qal/dna_land_ancestry_composition_hq_censored.png

Sephardi?

Swiss
08-06-2016, 08:59 PM
Sephardi?

i have no idea -.-

Morges
08-06-2016, 10:46 PM
Are these your results?

Swiss
08-07-2016, 10:34 AM
Are these your results?

yes, these are my results.

Swiss
08-07-2016, 09:18 PM
how reliable are the results from gedmatch and dna.land? i also share dna segments with people who are 100% ashkenazi but i dont know of any jewish ancestry.

regards

AJL
08-07-2016, 09:35 PM
how reliable are the results from gedmatch and dna.land? i also share dna segments with people who are 100% ashkenazi but i dont know of any jewish ancestry.

regards

We can say your results are quite inconsistent with typical Swiss ancestry. I am guessing you may be adopted or descended from a recently adopted person. In this case the most informative thing will be patterns of who you match at the highest thresholds (preferably at or over, say, 14 centimorgans).

kingjohn
08-07-2016, 10:01 PM
dear swiss,
tell you the truth your results look like
a typical kurd only your balkan is higher other than that it fit
very well.
i wish you best in your jorney to find out
the indo-iranian and indus valley push you to middle east and maybe even eastern than that:)
best regards
adam

p.s cool results by the way thanks for sharing.

Morges
08-07-2016, 10:45 PM
dear swiss,
tell you the truth your results look like
a typical kurd only your balkan is higher other than that it fit
very well.
i wish you best in your jorney to find out
the indo-iranian and indus valley push you to middle east and maybe even eastern than that:)
best regards
adam

p.s cool results by the way thanks for sharing.

I agree, take a look into his GEDmatch scores and Kurds are usually among the first Oracle's populations.

Swiss
08-07-2016, 10:49 PM
We can say your results are quite inconsistent with typical Swiss ancestry. I am guessing you may be adopted or descended from a recently adopted person. In this case the most informative thing will be patterns of who you match at the highest thresholds (preferably at or over, say, 14 centimorgans).

my ethnicity isn't swiss. im just a swiss citizen. can i send you the myorigins map from ftdna via pm?

regards

Swiss
08-07-2016, 11:17 PM
dear swiss,
tell you the truth your results look like
a typical kurd only your balkan is higher other than that it fit
very well.
i wish you best in your jorney to find out
the indo-iranian and indus valley push you to middle east and maybe even eastern than that:)
best regards
adam

p.s cool results by the way thanks for sharing.

thank you!

yes, i'm a kurd but i didn't order a dna analysis to find out something that i already know :D

here is the myorigins map:

https://s20.postimg.org/ai7i6csf1/myoriginsmap_censored.png

and my family finder shows eastern european people from slovakia, hungary, ukraine etc. i din't expect that.

best regards

AJL
08-07-2016, 11:39 PM
If you have matches to Ashkenazim, the most likely explanation is both of you share Kurdish Jewish ancestry. If it is just a component on DNA.land though, then it is might just be ancient ancestry from the Near East.

Swiss
08-08-2016, 12:16 AM
If you have matches to Ashkenazim, the most likely explanation is both of you share Kurdish Jewish ancestry. If it is just a component on DNA.land though, then it is might just be ancient ancestry from the Near East.

i have matches to ashkenazim on gedmatch. dna.land just shows me the "4,3% ashkenazi". but that doesn't mean anything. i've heard that dna.land gives to much ashkenazi anyway.

regards

Lorence
08-26-2016, 12:39 AM
Every company uses different individuals as references and the populations are heterogeneous, hence the difference

coffeeprince
05-05-2017, 12:13 PM
As requested by kingjohn, here are my DNA Land results. Paper trail is 50% Ashkenazi/50% North African Sephardic. I'm very surprised by the amount of Balkan. From history, we know that many Iberian Jews immigrated to the Balkans/Italy, and not the other way around. So it's very interesting to see the lack of Iberian here. On Gedmatch, I do get around ~15% West Med which I assume is Iberian.

15594

Shadogowah
05-05-2017, 12:44 PM
^ The lack of Iberian/SW European is kind of surprising.

Nop. It is not.

kingjohn
05-05-2017, 02:36 PM
maybe there is a little diffrence between north african sefhardi and
balkan sefhardi in the amount of iberian
as i said before i know a full turkish sefhardi who score 9% iberia and this is even though there is sefhardic refrence in my origins 2.0.

about your balkan from what i understand and i am not expert but as shikaroth from this forum explain the balkan and the italian components are realy realy close...very cool results thanks for sharing
and you do have west med which appear here sardinian .....
p.s
i send richard those ftdna clusters he didn't answere me
but if dna land wants to be more presice they have to have sefhardic refrence...

coffeeprince
05-05-2017, 02:45 PM
maybe there is a little diffrence between north african sefhardi and
balkan sefhardi in the amount of iberian
as i said before i know a full turkish sefhardi who score 9% iberia and this is even though there is sefhardic refrence in my origins 2.0.

about your balkan from what i understand and i am not expert but as shikaroth from this forum explain the balkan and the italian components are realy realy close...very cool results thanks for sharing
and you do have west med which appear here sardinian .....
p.s
i send richard those ftdna clusters he didn't answere me
but if dna land wants to be more presice they have to have sefhardic refrence...

Yes, Sardinia here is the West Med category. I think FTDNA puts Sardinia under Southeast European.. I'm not sure if Sardinian appears as West Med or East Med in GEDmatch.

wandering_amorite
05-05-2017, 08:07 PM
Why is it not? "Pure" Sephardim are Levantine + Italian + Iberian.

Targum
05-05-2017, 08:39 PM
Why is it not? "Pure" Sephardim are Levantine + Italian + Iberian.

Except that all Western Jews greatly overlap, and families who believe they are Ashkenazi or Sefaradi have crossover at some point. Kevin Brook has researched this and written about it:

http://www.khazaria.com/sephardim-galitzia.html

http://www.khazaria.com/sephardim-galitzia.html


Mr. Brook, in addition, has contacted me about 6 or so (presently) non-Jewish Mexicans with whom he and I share DNA segments, which when analyzed indicate a common ancestor a number of generations ago. The only explanation is that the common ancestors were Sefaradim who in their post-expulsion migration had descendants some of whom came to Mexico as Annussim(crypto-Jews) and became "Mexicans", and other descendants who became absorbed among Ashkenazim.

kingjohn
05-05-2017, 09:51 PM
but most pure aschenazi i mean all 4 grandparents are getting
only 2% sefhardic on avarge thats extremely small % .{ maybe there few segments here in there but overall not big at all }
there was more aschenazi geneflow to the sefhardic communities
than there was geneflow from the sefhardic to the aschenazi direction
as the full sefhardi turkish i know score 9% aschenazi ........

wandering_amorite
05-06-2017, 12:08 AM
Except that all Western Jews greatly overlap, and families who believe they are Ashkenazi or Sefaradi have crossover at some point. Kevin Brook has researched this and written about it:

http://www.khazaria.com/sephardim-galitzia.html

http://www.khazaria.com/sephardim-galitzia.html


Mr. Brook, in addition, has contacted me about 6 or so (presently) non-Jewish Mexicans with whom he and I share DNA segments, which when analyzed indicate a common ancestor a number of generations ago. The only explanation is that the common ancestors were Sefaradim who in their post-expulsion migration had descendants some of whom came to Mexico as Annussim(crypto-Jews) and became "Mexicans", and other descendants who became absorbed among Ashkenazim.

You're speaking past me completely. I agree. I've seen it in my own results.

My point was simply that it's surprising that a Sephardi Jew would score high Balkan, and very low SW European/Iberian. A common trope I've seen on places like Eurogenes (his own nMonte experiment contradicted it) is that Sephardim are entirely East Mediterranean. The topic hasn't been researched in great depth, but the obvious West Med/Atlantic pull is coming largely from Iberia.

kingjohn
05-06-2017, 12:25 AM
where did you see it do you have mexican matches in some chromosomes ?

did you score sefhardic in my origins 2.0 ?
and if you do how much ?

Shadogowah
05-06-2017, 06:12 AM
Most of the Spanish Jews converted to Christianity and were never expulsed.

Even a big number of the ones that resettled in North Africa, came back and also converted years later.

These "new Christians" were watched by the Inquisition and suffered discrimination but I guess they were eventually absorbed and diluted among Spaniards. the spanish Jews were the most numerous Jew community of Western Europe but they were still very few compared to the whole Spanish population.

ffoucart
05-06-2017, 08:12 AM
Most of the Spanish Jews converted to Christianity and were never expulsed.

Even a big number of the ones that resettled in North Africa, came back and also converted years later.

These "new Christians" were watched by the Inquisition and suffered discrimination but I guess they were eventually absorbed and diluted among Spaniards. the spanish Jews were the most numerous Jew community of Western Europe but they were still very few compared to the whole Spanish population.

You are probably right.

Some studies have been published for Provence by Daničle IANCU-ANGO, as the Jewish community was forced to convert in the early XVIth century.
https://crm.revues.org/12058

She concluded that on the remaining Jews living in Provence in the late XVth century (as some Jews converted to Catholicism before, as the family of Nostradamus), half converted and integrated the Christian society, and half choose exile (mostly to Turkey). Among the converted, most of them choose grooms or brides in the same community in the firsts generations (childs, grandchilds of the converted), but it is no more the case after. It must also be said that some of the converted integrated nobilty, sometimes early (even before 1500).

Maquiladora
07-15-2017, 11:27 PM
Here is my dna.land results following my 23andme results

Assuming you are 100% Sephardic, this helps both you and me. :) I'm roughly 1/16, and I got fairly similar results that you did. I got ambiguous Ashkenazi (DNA companies are soooo great at detecting Sephardic blood, aren't they? :( ), along with the Balkan, Southwestern European, Sardinian, and Central Indoeuropean. I guess that is typical admixture for someone of Sephardic origins.

kingjohn
07-16-2017, 06:15 AM
Meir t
is half Sephardi Algerian
and half Bukhara Jews

Maquiladora
07-16-2017, 02:28 PM
Ohhh, okay. If the DNA results are accurate, I'm Sephardi Italian.

coffeeprince
07-17-2017, 03:17 AM
Yes, DNA.Land usually gives out Balkan, Southwestern European, and Sardinian for Sephardics (perhaps Egyptian too because I received a lot of that). I actually deleted my account because I thought the results were very inaccurate.

Maquiladora
07-17-2017, 03:34 AM
Analyzing my DNA in depth with so many websites is going to give me a quarter-life identity crisis. :laugh:

Shadogowah
07-17-2017, 12:09 PM
Why is it not? "Pure" Sephardim are Levantine + Italian + Iberian.

There's not such a thing as "pure sefhardim".

The term, as far as I know, indeed means something like "Spanish" as Sefarad is the name the Jews have to Spain (thus nothing to do with Italy) but in genetic terms it seems to cover a wider spectrum and includes all non-ashkenazi Jews that happen to have their roots within the lands that were part of the Roman Empire.

Sefhardi jews are indeed those of Spanish descent but there were already "sefhardi" Jews in Morocco before the Granada decree.

As I mentioned in other posts, most of Spanish Jews that settled in Morocco after the expulsion suffered there harsher repression and social rejection (even at hands of the Jews already there)and later came back as converts others moved eastward in order to be under the protection of the Ottomans and others indeed remained in the Maghreb.

Claudio
07-20-2017, 06:55 PM
I am posting also in this thread the Algerian Jew results I posted on "DnaLand Update" :

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/953159AlgerianJewDnaLand.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=953159AlgerianJewDnaLand.jpg)

The label Ashkenazi/Levantine intrigues me?
I take it has something to do with shared levantine ancestry of med islanders and jews?
I scored 36% italy Greece
6% Ashkenazi and 3% middle east on my Ancestry DNA test,the rest being west European..
Yet when I uploaded to DNAland I scored 36% southeast europe(italy Greece,Balkans) which is exactly the same..
16% Ashkenazi/Levantine split into 12% Mediterranean islander 4%Ashkenazi..
Then a further 5% Sardinian and 1% iberian.. basically an extra 15% southern European lol ?

Claudio
07-20-2017, 07:11 PM
There's not such a thing as "pure sefhardim".

The term, as far as I know, indeed means something like "Spanish" as Sefarad is the name the Jews have to Spain (thus nothing to do with Italy) but in genetic terms it seems to cover a wider spectrum and includes all non-ashkenazi Jews that happen to have their roots within the lands that were part of the Roman Empire.

Sefhardi jews are indeed those of Spanish descent but there were already "sefhardi" Jews in Morocco before the Granada decree.

As I mentioned in other posts, most of Spanish Jews that settled in Morocco after the expulsion suffered there harsher repression and social rejection (even at hands of the Jews already there)and later came back as converts others moved eastward in order to be under the protection of the Ottomans and others indeed remained in the Maghreb.

I agree..
Was gonna mention that the reason separdi's may score more italian than iberian could be that a large amount of the Jews that went to Spain were from the older jewish populations leaving italy after the persecutions due to the romans converting to Christianity.. by this point the jews who went to spain may have been Half italian half Jewish from hundreds of years living in italy.. if the spanish jews kept mostly to themselves for there 500 year stint in spain before they left for north africa they may have retained the majority of that italian ancestry? Then again what you mentioned above seems a more likely reason.. though could be a combo? lol

eolien
09-08-2017, 12:48 PM
I agree..
Was gonna mention that the reason separdi's may score more italian than iberian could be that a large amount of the Jews that went to Spain were from the older jewish populations leaving italy after the persecutions due to the romans converting to Christianity.. by this point the jews who went to spain may have been Half italian half Jewish from hundreds of years living in italy.. if the spanish jews kept mostly to themselves for there 500 year stint in spain before they left for north africa they may have retained the majority of that italian ancestry? Then again what you mentioned above seems a more likely reason.. though could be a combo? lol


I think we should stop propagating such a pseudo-history. I am not aware of any such migration from Italy to Spain. In fact it is well known that there was already a significant jewish community in Iberic peninsula and Septimania who were rather persecuted under Visigoths. It is difficult to know if they moved from Italy there (why?). After the Muslim conquest for sure more Maghrebian jews moved to Spain. We need also to find out why in admixture results the Sefardic jews come out as closest to sicilians and to southern italians but not to romans or central italians. In any case after the expulsion, the majority of the spanish jews moved to italy (and later to balkans) and ottoman lands, but significant part of the andalusian jews moved to northern africa due to language knowledge and cultural similarity. It is well known that some northern morrocan towns were settled by jewish and muslim emigrants from granada. The situation is definitely complex because there was a large movement of people within the mediterranean basin under pax ottomanica.

Coming to 'pure' sefarads that could keep their iberian culture and customs: As i have written in other posts, this population is a mixture of Iberian jews, south italian jews, byzantine jews and ashkenazim from hungary. The distinctions, separate customs and synagogues seem to disappear in the 18th century and for sure in the 19th century. The iberian jews made no clear distinction according to the origins and integrated all these communities successfully based just on religion. Later examples of integration include the georgian jews and mizrachi jews that migrated to Istanbul in the 20th century.

Below I add my DNA.land result

18614

coffeeprince
09-08-2017, 09:42 PM
I think we should stop propagating such a pseudo-history. I am not aware of any such migration from Italy to Spain. In fact it is well known that there was already a significant jewish community in Iberic peninsula and Septimania who were rather persecuted under Visigoths. It is difficult to know if they moved from Italy there (why?). After the Muslim conquest for sure more Maghrebian jews moved to Spain. We need also to find out why in admixture results the Sefardic jews come out as closest to sicilians and to southern italians but not to romans or central italians. In any case after the expulsion, the majority of the spanish jews moved to italy (and later to balkans) and ottoman lands, but significant part of the andalusian jews moved to northern africa due to language knowledge and cultural similarity. It is well known that some northern morrocan towns were settled by jewish and muslim emigrants from granada. The situation is definitely complex because there was a large movement of people within the mediterranean basin under pax ottomanica.

Coming to 'pure' sefarads that could keep their iberian culture and customs: As i have written in other posts, this population is a mixture of Iberian jews, south italian jews, byzantine jews and ashkenazim from hungary. The distinctions, separate customs and synagogues seem to disappear in the 18th century and for sure in the 19th century. The iberian jews made no clear distinction according to the origins and integrated all these communities successfully based just on religion. Later examples of integration include the georgian jews and mizrachi jews that migrated to Istanbul in the 20th century.

Below I add my DNA.land result

18614

Interesting - your Ashkenazi score is at 21%. Are you pure Sephardi?
Also, once again, DNA.Land giving a decent score of Balkan to Sephardis.

kingjohn
09-08-2017, 10:05 PM
Sephardi Jews from the Balkan are different from Sephardi Jews in morocco
as they had contact with aschenazi communities
that's why he score 21% very logical
i am sure my maternal grandfather which was full Sephardi Balkan also would have scored close to eolian %

p.s
nice to see the the 3.8% south west europe very cool
and the med- islander is huge like Algerian jews and ancient Stuttgart
huge neolithic farmer in eolian :)

eolian what are your results in my heritage ?
and my origins 2.0 ?
do you score Iberian there ?
kind regards
adam

ddloe
01-31-2018, 09:48 AM
I'm 100% Cypriot and here is my dna.land results (raw data from 23andme)

100% West Eurasian
34% South European (18% Balkan and 16% South/Central European)
26% Ashkenazi/Levantine (14% Ashkenazi and 11% Mediterranean Islander)
19% Arab/Egyptian
12% Sardinian
6.2% Central Indoeuropean
3.2% Indo-Iranian

Any ideas on how to interpret this?

kingjohn
01-31-2018, 01:41 PM
I'm 100% Cypriot and here is my dna.land results (raw data from 23andme)

100% West Eurasian
34% South European (18% Balkan and 16% South/Central European)
26% Ashkenazi/Levantine (14% Ashkenazi and 11% Mediterranean Islander)
19% Arab/Egyptian
12% Sardinian
6.2% Central Indoeuropean
3.2% Indo-Iranian

Any ideas on how to interpret this?

if you are full cypriote
the aschenazi might be false
but since there is a huge overlapp in markers between the aschenazi and the med -islander refernces
dna land algoritm could have mistaken your med-islander genes as aschenazi
beyond this i don't see anything wierd in the results all look logic to me {even the arab egyption % since cypriotes do score red sea in eurogenes k13 }
and the big southern european elment also logic
regards
adam

ddloe
01-31-2018, 01:48 PM
Yes, I'm 100% Cypriot (all 4 grandparents and 8 great-grandparents). I do think the Ashkenazi is wrong because I don't have any known Jewish ancestry.
There must be an issue with their algorithm and I do not understand why the grouped Ashkenazi and Mediterranean Islander together.


Thanks for clarifying :)

SlytherclawRavenpuff
02-11-2018, 07:13 PM
hi my dad's side is romaniote with possible sephardic as well. would sardinian be considered sephardic? i only got .1% iberian but the sardinian i had no clue i would get. Do you know of any history with jews from sardinia coming to greece?

kingjohn
02-11-2018, 07:20 PM
hi my dad's side is romaniote with possible sephardic as well. would sardinian be considered sephardic? i only got .1% iberian but the sardinian i had no clue i would get. Do you know of any history with jews from sardinia coming to greece?

your father his romaniote B)
you and your father are tresure :beerchug:
please upload your father raw data to dna land and my heritage and if you can
also to my origins 2.0
there aren't many romaniotes out there .....
especialy not in genetic forums
kind regards
adam

p.s
can you post your and your father dna land result ? :)
sardinain could be early european farmer in you ..... :)
the 1% is normal from what i saw mainly sefhardi jews from balkan get iberian in dna land among jewish groups
i score some so do my mother and also eolian which is full sefhardi turkish .....

SlytherclawRavenpuff
02-11-2018, 07:29 PM
my father just sent his dna to 23 and me recently we are waiting for results. I will have to talk to him before uploading his data anywhere

kingjohn
02-11-2018, 07:33 PM
my father just sent his dna to 23 and me recently we are waiting for results. I will have to talk to him before uploading his data anywhere

ok can you please post your dna land results :)
we can get and idea what he will score more or less since you are half romaniote half aschenazi :)

SlytherclawRavenpuff
02-12-2018, 02:03 AM
i got my results back from dna land (1/2 romaniote 1/2 ashkenazi)

75 % Ashkenazi
5.5% mediteranean islander
6.2% Arab/egyptian
5.4 % Balkan
3.1 % Central Indo-European
4.8 % North African

kingjohn
02-12-2018, 10:31 AM
i got my results back from dna land (1/2 romaniote 1/2 ashkenazi)

75 % Ashkenazi
5.5% mediteranean islander
6.2% Arab/egyptian
5.4 % Balkan
3.1 % Central Indo-European
4.8 % North African


very weird if you are half aschenazi how can you score 75% aschenazi
if your father is full romaniote .....
the only explain i have is that they read part of your med islander as aschenazi
as there is overlap in genetic signatures between the med-islander cluster and the aschenazi cluster
i saw this case also with a full cypriote results
something fishy is going in dna land lately :\

SlytherclawRavenpuff
02-13-2018, 03:13 AM
very weird if you are half aschenazi how can you score 75% aschenazi
if your father is full romaniote .....
the only explain i have is that they read part of your med islander as aschenazi
as there is overlap in genetic signatures between the med-islander cluster and the aschenazi cluster
i saw this case also with a full cypriote results
something fishy is going in dna land lately :\

on 23 and me it showed italian and a little bit of sardinian .i know way back one the family lines was from italy before greece. could that have shown up as askenazi?

kingjohn
02-13-2018, 01:26 PM
on 23 and me it showed italian and a little bit of sardinian .i know way back one the family lines was from italy before greece. could that have shown up as askenazi?

i need to see another results of your upload raw data can you upload it to my heritage https://faq.myheritage.com/DNA/Upload-DNA-data/951693061/How-can-I-upload-a-DNA-file-to-MyHeritage.htm 24 hours
and you have results there :)
23and me is more relaible than dna land so i think your real aschenazi % is 54% as you got in 23andme and not 75% here .....
anyway my heritage also have sardinain refernce so it could be cool to see if you score it .... :)

SlytherclawRavenpuff
02-13-2018, 04:26 PM
i dont know when ill have my myheritage dna results i got this message when i uploaded it the other day
"The file you have uploaded is in a format that we do not currently support. We are working to add support for this file type soon and will notify you by email once your results are ready."

kingjohn
02-13-2018, 04:30 PM
i dont know when ill have my myheritage dna results i got this message when i uploaded it the other day
"The file you have uploaded is in a format that we do not currently support. We are working to add support for this file type soon and will notify you by email once your results are ready."

maybe it is because it is 23and me v5 :\
anyway thanks for sharing
kind regards
adam

IberianHilary
03-13-2018, 06:22 AM
I don’t understand my results. Likely a v5 issue?

Genealogical ancestry:
1/2 Portuguese
1/4 Norwegian
1/8 English
1/8 German (potentially some Jewish bc of surname spelling).

DnaLand:

64% NW European
17% Ashkenazi
14% Baltic
2.2 ambiguous
1.5% Finnish
1.3% Hadza

* Not a single drop of SW European? Why?

23andme: unphased
23.4% Iberian
15.4% French German
13% Scandinavian
9.9% British/Irish
2.8 Eastern European
1.6% Italian
< .1% Ashkenazi
21.2% broadly NW European
8.3% Southern European
4.2% broadly European
.2% West African

23 says my NW European (according to DnaLand variables) should be about 42.1% - 46.3%.

Is it confusing Portuguese (SW European) with NW European? I can see the Baltic being in Portuguese (as it uses Greek) and my dads haplotype is E-V13. But there’s not even one single drop of SW European in my report.

I should add when I looked up the Hadza people I about died. Those are my eyes! Which are different than anyone in my family.

AstralProtection
07-19-2018, 04:56 PM
Here are my grandmother's test results
https://files.catbox.moe/42mjcq.jpg

Here are my moms
https://files.catbox.moe/4bvssv.jpg


Mine
https://files.catbox.moe/3qhbrl.jpg


My half sister
https://files.catbox.moe/r74nth.jpg

I don't know if this even COUNTS as Jewish, 23andme only gave us 0.6 Ashkenazi in the results, but DNA land is more forgiving? I assume if this is correct, my grandmother is half Jewish and it splinters from there? I should use GEDmatch for my grandmother to see what the North African is comprised of?

kingjohn
07-19-2018, 05:58 PM
Here are my grandmother's test results
https://files.catbox.moe/42mjcq.jpg

Here are my moms
https://files.catbox.moe/4bvssv.jpg


Mine
https://files.catbox.moe/3qhbrl.jpg


My half sister
https://files.catbox.moe/r74nth.jpg

I don't know if this even COUNTS as Jewish, 23andme only gave us 0.6 Ashkenazi in the results, but DNA land is more forgiving? I assume if this is correct, my grandmother is half Jewish and it splinters from there? I should use GEDmatch for my grandmother to see what the North African is comprised of?

you are part mexican ?
regards
Adam

AstralProtection
07-19-2018, 07:02 PM
Hello Adam! Thanks for the fast response. Why, yes, we are part Native Mexican. Hence the half Jewish assumption, unless the north African are from islamic tribes during Spanish times. Though, the Ashkenazi throws me off. Here is a Gedrosia K3 admixture test I used in my grandmothers data.
https://pastebin.com/xnmpdvLa

Do you recommend I use different calculators instead? If so, is there a specific one in mind?
Cheers, Cris.

AstralProtection
07-19-2018, 09:43 PM
you are part mexican ?
regards
Adam
Now I've done a different test, the "puntDNAL K8 African only" to see specifically her North African side.
Unsure if this really means anything big, but here you go.

This is what I've obtained.
#PopulationPercent
1 Western_Semitic 74. 09
2 E_Benue_Congo 7. 98
3 W_Benue_Congo 7. 32
4 Omotic 5. 98
5 Eastern_HG 4. 63
pastebin.com/bpqVMyZB

kingjohn
07-19-2018, 10:08 PM
Hello Adam! Thanks for the fast response. Why, yes, we are part Native Mexican. Hence the half Jewish assumption, unless the north African are from islamic tribes during Spanish times. Though, the Ashkenazi throws me off. Here is a Gedrosia K3 admixture test I used in my grandmothers data.
https://pastebin.com/xnmpdvLa

Do you recommend I use different calculators instead? If so, is there a specific one in mind?
Cheers, Cris.

if you think you have some sefhardi heritage
dna land won't tell you this ....[ because they dont have sefhardi refernce}
i suggest that you look at your family finder matches if you see some jewish matches ashkenazi or sephardi
than you could have real jewish segments.....
you should upload your raw data to my heritage it is free they have sefhardi refernce {moroccan jew though } and this can also be a sign

AstralProtection
07-19-2018, 11:14 PM
I've just tried My Heritage and Family Tree DNA, they both tell my raw data isn't supported. Is it because I have a v5 chip type file? Are there other sites I can upload the data in?

PoxVoldius
07-20-2018, 01:01 AM
I've just tried My Heritage and Family Tree DNA, they both tell my raw data isn't supported. Is it because I have a v5 chip type file? Are there other sites I can upload the data in?

I also got the "not supported" message from My Heritage when trying to upload 23andMe v5 chip raw data.

I suppose you could try Gencove & Geneplaza (inexpensive apps, including some of Kurd's admixture calculators), but I don't know if those ones have Sephardi references.

edit

Correction: Gencove is no longer free and they closed down the data uploads last month.

AstralProtection
07-21-2018, 07:42 PM
Darn. Gencove doesn't accept samples anymore. I'll see about using another paid service then, by the way, I recall reading about about Jewish segments being in certain chromosomes (I.E 14, 15, 16) and that being a certainty of Jewish heritage.
If anyone knows what I'm talking about, I'd be very grateful if you've helped me.

talombo
11-11-2018, 06:16 AM
My colorful results:

27044

Charlie X
12-08-2018, 11:58 PM
great thread - here are my DNAL results based upon FTDNA which contained 7% Sephardic Jew in MyOrigins

27574

Charlie X
12-09-2018, 12:01 AM
here's my mother's DNAL results based upon 23&Me V5 - note Ashkenazi 8.1%

27575

my DNAL results based on 23&Me V4

27576

Wolf
12-09-2018, 04:19 AM
interesting