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rock hunter
06-04-2016, 08:01 AM
Did Marilyn Monroe have links to an ancient Scottish clan?

MARILYN Monroe was descended from a Scottish soldier, according to new research.

A DNA investigation is currently being carried out by the Clan Munro USA, who found that the American sex bomb has roots in Ross-shire.

They discovered that Monroe, who would have turned 90 this week, descended from a Scots soldier exiled to America after the English Civil War.

And now the search is on for her relatives - with free DNA tests being offered to Munros with Ross-shire and Highland origins.

The American icon was born as Norma Jeane Mortenson but took her screen name from her mother, Gladys Pearl Monroe.

The research made use of DNA provided by a male-line relative Marilyn Monroe’s grandfather, Otis Elmer Monroe.

It suggested a link to a John Munro from the Tain area who traveled to America in the mid-17th century.

Many Scots fought as mercenaries in the English Civil War, most of them on the Parliament side. Munro may have fought with the Royalist troops of King Charles I.

It is likely he was sent to Boston to be sold into forced servitude after being captured following Charles’s defeat by Cromwell at the battle of Worcester in 1651.

It is believed that John, who eventually settled in Bristol, Rhode Island, was the son of a Robert Munro from Aldie, near Tain.

Mark Monroe of Austin, Texas said: “Like all clans, Munro men, however they spell the name, have a mix of male genetic lines. Last year we found that many Scots Munros are related to US President James Monroe.

“Descendants of John of Rhode Island also form a large genetic group in present-day America and it would be good to find their relatives among present-day Scots men.”

The project also has the backing of Colin Munro, who belongs to the Foulis male line based in Ross-shire.

He said: “In addition to trying to prove a Ross-shire origin for Marilyn’s ancestor, it would be good to establish the main male ancestral DNA types in the Munro home territory.”

“The expatriate Monroes and so on of whatever DNA pattern, who form the majority of those tested, are very keen to prove their Scots ancestry.”

DNA testing for the Munro DNA Project is carried out by Family Tree DNA, Inc. of Houston, Texas. Project administrators are volunteers on behalf of Clan Munro USA and state that they have no commercial interest in the project.

All testing was paid for by participants themselves, or by members of Clan Munro USA.

Margaret Bardin, volunteer administrator of the Munro DNA project at Family Tree DNA, added: “We have a limited number of free tests and it’ll be first-come first-served!”

fridurich
06-05-2016, 05:36 AM
Did Marilyn Monroe have links to an ancient Scottish clan?

MARILYN Monroe was descended from a Scottish soldier, according to new research.

A DNA investigation is currently being carried out by the Clan Munro USA, who found that the American sex bomb has roots in Ross-shire.

They discovered that Monroe, who would have turned 90 this week, descended from a Scots soldier exiled to America after the English Civil War.

And now the search is on for her relatives - with free DNA tests being offered to Munros with Ross-shire and Highland origins.

The American icon was born as Norma Jeane Mortenson but took her screen name from her mother, Gladys Pearl Monroe.

The research made use of DNA provided by a male-line relative Marilyn Monroe’s grandfather, Otis Elmer Monroe.

It suggested a link to a John Munro from the Tain area who traveled to America in the mid-17th century.

Many Scots fought as mercenaries in the English Civil War, most of them on the Parliament side. Munro may have fought with the Royalist troops of King Charles I.

It is likely he was sent to Boston to be sold into forced servitude after being captured following Charles’s defeat by Cromwell at the battle of Worcester in 1651.

It is believed that John, who eventually settled in Bristol, Rhode Island, was the son of a Robert Munro from Aldie, near Tain.

Mark Monroe of Austin, Texas said: “Like all clans, Munro men, however they spell the name, have a mix of male genetic lines. Last year we found that many Scots Munros are related to US President James Monroe.

“Descendants of John of Rhode Island also form a large genetic group in present-day America and it would be good to find their relatives among present-day Scots men.”

The project also has the backing of Colin Munro, who belongs to the Foulis male line based in Ross-shire.

He said: “In addition to trying to prove a Ross-shire origin for Marilyn’s ancestor, it would be good to establish the main male ancestral DNA types in the Munro home territory.”

“The expatriate Monroes and so on of whatever DNA pattern, who form the majority of those tested, are very keen to prove their Scots ancestry.”

DNA testing for the Munro DNA Project is carried out by Family Tree DNA, Inc. of Houston, Texas. Project administrators are volunteers on behalf of Clan Munro USA and state that they have no commercial interest in the project.

All testing was paid for by participants themselves, or by members of Clan Munro USA.

Margaret Bardin, volunteer administrator of the Munro DNA project at Family Tree DNA, added: “We have a limited number of free tests and it’ll be first-come first-served!”

Very interesting. Does anyone know for sure what YDNA haplogroup the chiefly line of Foulis is?

EvanM
06-20-2016, 07:51 PM
Very interesting. Does anyone know for sure what YDNA haplogroup the chiefly line of Foulis is?

I understood some of the words in your question, and am new here, but let me take a stab at this:

Most of the matches in the Foulis group of the Munro FTDNA project are in I-P37. A few with supposed documented lineages to Donald Munro of Foulis are I-Y12073, which is downstream of I-P37 via I-L161.1.

fridurich
06-21-2016, 05:02 AM
I understood some of the words in your question, and am new here, but let me take a stab at this:

Most of the matches in the Foulis group of the Munro FTDNA project are in I-P37. A few with supposed documented lineages to Donald Munro of Foulis are I-Y12073, which is downstream of I-P37 via I-L161.1.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, you did understand what I was asking. Also is I-P37 a Viking haplogroup? I know one or some subdivisions of the I haplogroup indicate Viking descent.

EvanM
06-21-2016, 08:00 PM
Also is I-P37 a Viking haplogroup? I know one or some subdivisions of the I haplogroup indicate Viking descent.

I spent the better part of the morning trying to figure this out, but I've been consistently thwarted by different names for the same haplogroup on different sites. :/ It looks like all but the youngest couple links in the chain back to I-P37 are much older than the Viking age (8th - 11th century, or 900-1200 years ago).

From what I can tell, I-P37 is the same thing as I2a, which Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438) says "may be the haplogroup pertaining to the first anatomically modern humans to inhabit Europe, Cro-Magnon." A 13,000 year old Cro-magnon tested in I2a. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon#Genetics) That's obviously well before the Viking period, though admittedly the Vikings would have descended from Cro-Magnon with the rest of us. This got confusing to me, because I1, a "brother" mutation of I2, is significantly younger: something like 3500-5000 years TMRCA (versus ~22k years for I2).

I'm still trying to figure out if there are any geographical locations with the last few links in the chain (I-Y11765Y -> I-Y12059).

Working backwards, I see some websites claiming everybody in R1a to be "Viking" which seems pretty preposterous given the age of that group (~18ky TMRCA). Haplogroup I1-M253 (I1a?) seems to be associated with Norway and Viking expansion, and covers a similar area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M253), though it's still older (~4700 yrs TMRCA) than the Viking era. I suppose if I broadly interpreted "Viking" to mean "Scandanavian" then a case could be made, but I've heard that's heresy in historic circles. ;)

fridurich
08-04-2016, 06:30 PM
I spent the better part of the morning trying to figure this out, but I've been consistently thwarted by different names for the same haplogroup on different sites. :/ It looks like all but the youngest couple links in the chain back to I-P37 are much older than the Viking age (8th - 11th century, or 900-1200 years ago).

From what I can tell, I-P37 is the same thing as I2a, which Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M438) says "may be the haplogroup pertaining to the first anatomically modern humans to inhabit Europe, Cro-Magnon." A 13,000 year old Cro-magnon tested in I2a. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon#Genetics) That's obviously well before the Viking period, though admittedly the Vikings would have descended from Cro-Magnon with the rest of us. This got confusing to me, because I1, a "brother" mutation of I2, is significantly younger: something like 3500-5000 years TMRCA (versus ~22k years for I2).

I'm still trying to figure out if there are any geographical locations with the last few links in the chain (I-Y11765Y -> I-Y12059).

Working backwards, I see some websites claiming everybody in R1a to be "Viking" which seems pretty preposterous given the age of that group (~18ky TMRCA). Haplogroup I1-M253 (I1a?) seems to be associated with Norway and Viking expansion, and covers a similar area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I-M253), though it's still older (~4700 yrs TMRCA) than the Viking era. I suppose if I broadly interpreted "Viking" to mean "Scandanavian" then a case could be made, but I've heard that's heresy in historic circles. ;)

I did some research myself and I see clearly now that the haplogroup the Foulis Monroes have I2a-L161 and the subdivision downstream of it PF4135, that they also have doesn't appear to have anything to do with the Vikings. I-P37 may be the same thing as I2A?, which I2A would be an upstream ancestor haplogroup for I2a-L161,

A real surprise is to see that the Monroes of Foulis are related to the O'Driscolls/Driscolls of Cork in southwest Ireland! The O'Driscolls also are I2a-L161 and at least some of them have PF4135!

The Munroes have a tradition of being descended from an Irishman, but their tradition says he was Donald son of an O'Kane. However, the common ancestor for the Munroes of Foulis and the O'Driscolls of Cork is thought to have lived about 1500 years ago, give or take 300 years. So the common ancestor for both families at that time, had no surname. This doesn't rule out that a nearer in time ancestor of the Munroes didn't have the surname O'Driscoll. We don't know when the Irish ancestor immigrated all the way to Foulis in Northeast Scotland, or perhaps he landed in another part of Scotland and in stages the family came to Foulis.

However, the Monroe clan tradition says that Donald came from Fermanagh Ireland and fought for Scottish king Malcolm II and was rewarded with lands in Easter Ross.

http://www.electricscotland.com/familytree/newsletters/munro/MunroDec2015.pdf

Schanulleke
08-26-2016, 01:17 PM
Without doubt very interesting...