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DMXX
03-25-2013, 11:16 PM
Whilst revisiting The Origin of the Indo-Iranians (E.E Kuz'mina) the Dandybay culture was mentioned several times and, in my opinion, was incorrectly ascribed to a specific ethno-linguistic group:



Sites of the Dandybay culture date to the very end of the 11th-8th centuries BC and they are distributed over central Kazakhstan. Individual Dandybay pots are found in the Kirgiz..., in Khorezm..., in northern Kazakhstan..., in various sites of the northern Caspian... and from the Il'evskiy cemetary in the Volgograd region.

...Neither in form, decorative motifs nor manufacturing technique is the pottery similar to Alakul' or Fedorovo. ... A.H. Margulan that the Begazy-Dandybay culture represented a direct continuation of Andronovo and was the prototype of the Saka. This conclusion is disputable. Taking into account the technological, formal and ornamental peculiarities of Dandybay ceramics and their relation to Karasuk, [B]the Dandybay complex should be seen as a seperate culture which is genetically unrelated to Andronovo.

A ceramic technique similar to Dandybay is still employed by the Turkic peoples of Siberia - the Yakuts and Shorts. ... This is a peculiar technique and is known in Siberia only among Turkic peoples which makes this technique of beating out the clay an important ethnic characteristic relating to the Turkish language family and suggests a probable migration from Siberia or Central Asia of the Dandybay peoples.


The authors are stating that the 1st millennia BC Dandybay culture of Central Asia is inherently Turkish, despite this being the era when (via the mainstream Eurasian steppe theory) Indo-European tribes speaking East Iranic dialects dominated over much of this region.

I do not see why this ceramic tradition now being associated with Turkic speakers means it was developed by Turkic speakers. In the rest of her book, Kuz'mina explains how the Lurs of Iran are predominantly the descendants of native West Asian pastoralists who simply adopted the language and name traditions of early West Iranian tribes. The situation may well be analogous with Siberian Turks, who acquired that ceramic tradition from elsewhere.

I've been looking for more material on the Dandybay but can't find anything specific regarding their burial practices or artefacts.

AJL
03-26-2013, 02:20 PM
I do not see why this ceramic tradition now being associated with Turkic speakers means it was developed by Turkic speakers.

Yes, that's quite a leap of faith.

newtoboard
03-28-2013, 12:21 PM
Turks adopted a lot from Central Asian Iranians who themselves adopted a lot from the Neolithci peoples. By the logic above Nowuz is Turkic in origin because Turkic tribes started celebrating it after interacting with Iranian ones.

DMXX
03-28-2013, 12:50 PM
Again, by the same logic, some authors claim that Nowruz was a direct imitation by the early West Iranian tribes of native Mesopotamian spring festivals. Did it not occur to them that both pastoral and agricultural populations would celebrate the symbolism of cyclical regrowth?

newtoboard
03-29-2013, 06:40 PM
Again, by the same logic, some authors claim that Nowruz was a direct imitation by the early West Iranian tribes of native Mesopotamian spring festivals. Did it not occur to them that both pastoral and agricultural populations would celebrate the symbolism of cyclical regrowth?

Honestly the people who actually believes this argument are just Assyrian Nationalist website authors.

Spring festivals are common in many cultures. North India has the Vaisakhi festival. I am sure someone out there will argue its Mughal origins although the only thing it has to do with Mughals is its importance in Punjab being linked to anti Mughal movements.