View Full Version : Brahmin Y-DNA results from Jammu-Kashmir

03-26-2013, 05:41 PM
Posted on the minor Y-DNA R results just now but the full results can be viewed in this thread. Raw Y-STR haplotypes (17) put through Urasin's YPredictor. Only those results with >60% prediction probability shown.

These results are from Genetic polymorphisms for 17 Y-chromosomal STR haplotypes in Jammu and Kashmir Saraswat Brahmin population by Yadav et al. (2010).

Kashmiri Brahmins have more Y-DNA haplogroup diversity and seem to have more of the markers one would expect from Near-Eastern populations (G2a-P15, J1c3-P58 etc.). Also worth pointing out both sets of Brahmins are over 10% "P-M45", which is interesting.

n=58 n=54
C3-M217 1.9%
_DE-M1 5.2%
E1b1a1g-U175 1.9%
F-M89 1.7% 3.7%
G1*-M285(xP20) 3.7%
G2a-P15 1.9%
H*-M69(xM82) 1.7% 9.3%
H1a-M82 3.4% 1.9%
H-M69 1.7% 3.7%
J1*-M267*(xM365,L136) 1.9%
J1c3-P58 1.9%
J2a4-L26 8.6% 16.7%
L1c-M357 1.7% 3.7%
O3-M122 1.7%
P-M45 10.3% 18.5%
Q1a-MEH2 5.6%
Q1b-M378 6.9%
R1a1a1*-M17 48.3% 14.8%
R1b1*-P25*(xP297) 1.9%
R1b1b2-M269 1.7%
R2a-M124 6.9% 1.9%
R2a1*-L295(xL294) 5.6%


03-30-2013, 12:04 PM
The R1b-M269 in the Jammu Brahmins is intriguing. What’s up with the F and DE though? No J2a-M92 (which is from Anatolia but extends to Iran and even Pakistani Balochistan). It is probably related to NW Iranian langauges movements. Jammu is just an extension of Punjab( as are Haryana, Azad Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Western Uttar Pradesh, NW Rajasthan and portion of NWFP), and these results support that imo. Like you said the Near Eastern specific lineages [J1c3-P58 (the Semtic J1), J1-M267*, G1*-M285(xP20), E1ba1g-U175, and R1b1*-P25*(xP297)].

03-30-2013, 03:29 PM
The R1b-M269 in the Jammu Brahmins is intriguing. What’s up with the F and DE though?

DE has been found in microscopic amounts in the Near East. But my guess is this is D-M174* which is known to occur in northern South Asia into Central Asia.

F and its subclades are not rare in South Asia.

03-30-2013, 06:18 PM
Where did D come from? Tiebtan invaders?

03-30-2013, 06:38 PM
Where did D come from? Tiebtan invaders?

Not likely. It's found throughout India, including in the Andaman Islands.

03-30-2013, 06:43 PM
Where did D come from? Tiebtan invaders?

I was reading this in the The Tarim Mummies last night as it happens. In ancient times, the Chinese empire's expansionist intentions further west were hampered by Tibetan tribes who periodically attacked the lands further north around the Tarim Basin.

One branch of the Yuezhi also mingled among the Tibetans after their displacement by the Xiongnu (came to be known as the "Lesser Yuezhi" at this point).

I'm not so sure that any Tibetans in Kashmir should be characterised as "invaders", but I don't know if that's a possibility. Though some of the families seem to have moved from Tibet to Kashmir more recently. http://www.tibetsun.com/features/2012/07/23/indo-tibetans-of-kashmir

In any event, as AJL stated, these results aren't out of the ordinary for land situated around the Indian Subcontinent.

03-31-2013, 09:24 PM
They are invaders. Ladkh was known to be Kashmiri like before Tibetan expansion. There are still Dards in some districts and mixed Dardic-Tibetan people.Even the Baltis ar eno different from regular Pakistanis n terms of ydnaand very high on R1a and J2 showing that Tibetans managed to force their language on more West Eurasian populations. It is out of the ordinary because the Himalayas in general have been a more effective barrier against foreign admixture than the Zagros imo and the populations on both sides are the complete opposites of each other.