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Yaroslav
06-19-2016, 06:17 AM
From the preprint of Lazaridis et al. 2016 http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/16/059311

Supplementary table:

http://s010.radikal.ru/i314/1606/84/6892554b93ba.jpg (http://radikal.ru/big/8b2b021eea864197a189eb8171e11817)


I1705 is confirmed J1 (xJ1a).

The three Early Bronze Age samples analyzed in this study were found in a cave high above the East Field of ‘Ain Ghazal and are probably associated with an Early Bronze Age village about 450 meters south of the Neolithic town.

Age: 2198-1966 calBCE

Yaroslav
06-19-2016, 06:44 AM
Here is the map where the sample I1705 is from:

http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/ancient-human-dna_41837#9/32.1907/35.9885

http://s017.radikal.ru/i439/1606/e7/f4b2dc4efb7a.png (http://radikal.ru/big/e4c9f893be6b42f4805508e5e2a1fba5)

RCO
06-19-2016, 06:24 PM
Yes, probably they were from a Southern downstream branch of P58 like https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2324/
All Levantine and Arabian J1 branches are relatively recent and derived with an expansion associated with the Bronze Age.

Yaroslav
06-23-2016, 04:23 AM
Yes, probably they were from a Southern downstream branch of P58 like https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2324/
All Levantine and Arabian J1 branches are relatively recent and derived with an expansion associated with the Bronze Age.

Yes, "The calls show that I1705 belonged to Y haplogroup J1a2b-Z2324".

https://genetiker.wordpress.com/y-snp-calls-for-i1705/

Agamemnon
06-23-2016, 10:33 AM
Yes, probably they were from a Southern downstream branch of P58 like https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z2324/
All Levantine and Arabian J1 branches are relatively recent and derived with an expansion associated with the Bronze Age.

Actually, considering I1705's age, this individual's negative YSC235 status (despite being positive for Z1852, which is a YSC235 approximant) severely underscores the complexity of J1's history in the Levant, you'd expect him to be YSC234 at the very least, in fact I would've vouched for YSC76 or a basal branch of YSC234 like ZS241 or FGC4745, but no, I1705 is YSC235- (therefore YSC234-). There's clearly more to it than meets the eye, a lot was going on for J1 in the Levant at least starting from the Chalcolithic era, which is obvious judging from the very strong correlation between YSC234 and Semitic speakers. I think this goes on to show that Z2324, YSC235, CTS11741 and YSC234 all arose in the Levant, unless proof of the contrary shows up of course (which isn't exactly likely, to say the least).

Yaroslav
06-23-2016, 03:19 PM
Modern day Z2324+ YSC235- people in J1 DNA Project:

http://s019.radikal.ru/i609/1606/53/b71a760367ca.png (http://radikal.ru/big/02009353c8e14f9398448e0e69b2ee70)

Babylon_74
06-25-2016, 08:01 PM
There's clearly more to it than meets the eye, a lot was going on for J1 in the Levant at least starting from the Chalcolithic era, which is obvious judging from the very strong correlation between YSC234 and Semitic speakers.
How about Proto-Arabic or South-Arabian speakers?. would we consider their Language as part of semitic languages? or Proto-semitic?
Obviously they are upstream such as L93

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehri_people

9945

Babylon_74
06-25-2016, 08:11 PM
By the way Gentelmen.

Where would you place this Northern Iraqi L858+ Cluster?....Near the Basal Split of L858? or more downstream?

9946

Same question would be applied to the Jewish -Iraqi Cluster of Zakho?

9947

Their final Placement in the vicinity of L858 is still vague?

Agamemnon
06-25-2016, 10:48 PM
How about Proto-Arabic or South-Arabian speakers?. would we consider their Language as part of semitic languages? or Proto-semitic?
Obviously they are upstream such as L93

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehri_people

9945

It's possible L93 might be associated with Proto-MSA speakers, L93's TMRCA could fit with the latest stages of Proto-Semitic.

Babylon_74
06-26-2016, 12:44 AM
It's possible L93 might be associated with Proto-MSA speakers, L93's TMRCA could fit with the latest stages of Proto-Semitic.

Thanks for your answer dear Agamemnon.

I know my previous question was off-topic,But do you have an approximate answer or preliminary assumption for it?

Agamemnon
06-26-2016, 08:52 PM
Thanks for your answer dear Agamemnon.

I know my previous question was off-topic,But do you have an approximate answer or preliminary assumption for it?

You're talking about the Jewish samples from Zakho right?

Babylon_74
06-26-2016, 10:02 PM
You're talking about the Jewish samples from Zakho right?

Yes ,that was the second part of my question.
The approximate SNP placement of the 3 Jewish Samples from Zakho (Northern Iraq)

Agamemnon
06-27-2016, 11:27 PM
Yes ,that was the second part of my question.
The approximate SNP placement of the 3 Jewish Samples from Zakho (Northern Iraq)

Well, as far as the Iraqi samples go, I'm not even sure they fit in the same cluster, some of these don't even seem to be L858, let alone YSC234 (though they're definitely L147.1+). I've also checked the J1 project on FTDNA and it seems the Jewish samples from Zakho are still unclustered, so all we know so far is that they're YSC234 and that's pretty much it really.

Babylon_74
06-27-2016, 11:51 PM
Well, as far as the Iraqi samples go, I'm not even sure they fit in the same cluster, some of these don't even seem to be L858, let alone YSC234 (though they're definitely L147.1+).

Actually they do form a genetic cluster and one of the samples is definitely L858+(by testing),which makes all of them L858+ automatically

on the other hand 3 of them are actually come from the same Tribe (Bou Nasser) and They all come from the same geographical location between (Mosul) and (Takrit) area in Northern Iraq.The real question is whether they are near the basal split of L858 or further downstream?


I've also checked the J1 project on FTDNA and it seems the Jewish samples from Zakho are still unclustered, so all we know so far is that they're YSC234 and that's pretty much it really

So why they haven't test the L858 yet?

their close genetic proximity to ZS227 and their ancient geographical location in Northern Iraq may have some historical resemblance and may connect them to the theory/assumption of the lost 10 tribes?