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Michalis Moriopoulos
01-03-2021, 06:20 PM
We're everywhere. Even frozen in Roopkund Lake.

ThaYamamoto
01-03-2021, 06:41 PM
I found this interesting Facebook page that explores the Greek presence in East Africa during the colonial era from Kenya to Rwanda to Mozambique. It sounds like the Greeks were on their way to becoming the “Lebanese of East Africa”, I wonder what impeded them from establishing sizable communities in the region. It looks like most of them departed once these countries gained independence.

https://m.facebook.com/Greeks-of-Africa-Grecs-de-l-Afrique-1728228410743413/?__tn__=C-R

Very interesting, perhaps due to post-Amiin xenophobia? Although Kenyatta was quite the opposite and Kenya remained cosmopolitan so maybe not. Conversely I read there there was a massive Indian population in Nigeria prior to the civil war upon once they all left. Seemed to have been a trend.


We're everywhere. Even frozen in Roopkund Lake.

:lol:

XXD
01-03-2021, 07:06 PM
My maternal grandfather lived in Wad Madani, Sudan for 40 years. He was a dentist for the Europeans (Brits, Italians, Armenians and Greeks) and treated the local Sudanese for free. He also brought many young Sudanese to study medicine in Athens. The Greek community in Khartoum and Wad Madani seems to have been significant. They often had problems with Muslim fundamentalists, some even being killed.

He made a little dental Museum in Wad Madani, with photos and samples of the worst cases in his career. I wonder if it still survives.

He was allowed to stay after most Europeans were gone, but his missus was missing the life in Athens, so they left :)

Deftextra
01-03-2021, 08:59 PM
My great uncle studied medicine in Moscow and married a Russian. After his studies they both moved to Mogadishu where he opened a clinic. They lived there up until the start of the war.

This is his daughters ancestry results:

42268

Táltos
01-03-2021, 09:57 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJgy6mgH-OC/?hl=en

Random post. I’d be interested in seeing this old woman’s 23andme results. She’s a rare example of a first generation Nilotic/Mediterranean mix, being half Mundari-South Sudanese half Greek.

I wonder how common Greek traders were in parts of Africa during the colonial era, because this isn’t the first SSA person with recent Greek ancestry. I know a Rwandan family who’s mother is a quarter Greek from her grandfather.

I have to say this is very interesting. Off and on with 23andme updates my mom and I have either had small amounts of East African and or Sudanese. I also remember on Gedmatch we had some SNPs from Eritrea. I forget what that tool was on there to look for that, but I don't think they have it anymore.

Anyway with the the new 23andme update, my mom now has 0.5% Sudanese, and 0.2 Broadly Sub Saharan. I have a tiny 0.2 Sudanese, and 0.1 Broadly Sub Saharan. It stays down to the 90% confidence range. We are part Arbëreshë and get lots of matches to Greeks along with ancestor locations to Greece.

Deftextra
01-04-2021, 12:39 AM
I occasionally come across atypical individuals who score southern European/med percentages like this individual:


42271


I was able to contact this individual and she is not aware of any European ancestry other than the typical middle-eastern, south or west Asian ancestry we carry. She claims her ancestors have been in Somalia for centuries.

I usually just assume its coming via some type of Mediterranean Arab ancestry we might be carrying. But the amount she is scoring is quite atypical on Ancestry. Before the update she was 14% Italian, which got me thinking that it might be coming from a colonial Italian ancestor since Our clan was one of the first to establish relations with the Italians in 1880.

drobbah
01-04-2021, 12:50 AM
I occasionally come across atypical individuals who score southern European/med percentages like this individual:


42271


I was able to contact this individual and she is not aware of any European ancestry other than the typical middle-eastern, south or west Asian ancestry we carry. She claims her ancestors have been in Somalia for centuries.

I usually just assume its coming via some type of Mediterranean Arab ancestry we might be carrying. But the amount she is scoring is quite atypical on Ancestry. Before the update she was 14% Italian, which got me thinking that it might be coming from a colonial Italian ancestor since Our clan was one of the first to establish relations with the Italians in 1880.
How common was intermixing between Somalis from Somalia and the Italian colonial settlers? Have you seen other results with traces of Italian?

Deftextra
01-04-2021, 01:33 AM
How common was intermixing between Somalis from Somalia and the Italian colonial settlers?

Very rare from what I have heard and can make out. If any intermixing occurred it was usually the main Somali clans I have been told by the older people who lived through those times. (Not sure If they are being biased there though).


Have you seen other results with traces of Italian?
On ancestry trace amounts of med ancestry is very rare. I have only come across a couple out of a dozen. But if there is any trace amounts present it is usually Italian.

On 23andMe, trace amounts of med ancestry is quite common, but can easily come from our middle-eastern ancestry.

Med ancestry in general on My Heritage is very common (I score 2.4% Greek there), but My heritage is very unreliable (almost a joke) on most ancestral categories.

drobbah
01-04-2021, 03:23 AM
Very rare from what I have heard and can make out. If any intermixing occurred it was usually the main Somali clans I have been told by the older people who lived through those times. (Not sure If they are being biased there though).

There was 30,000 Italians in Somalia by 1930, intermarriage between the Italian men and Somali women was bound to happen.Besides the rebellions led by the Dir Biyomaal it seems the local Hawiye/Darood didn't put up much resistance to the settlers and the Italian colonial government.





On ancestry trace amounts of med ancestry is very rare. I have only come across a couple out of a dozen. But if there is any trace amounts present it is usually Italian.

On 23andMe, trace amounts of med ancestry is quite common, but can easily come from our middle-eastern ancestry.

Med ancestry in general on My Heritage is very common (I score 2.4% Greek there), but My heritage is very unreliable (almost a joke) on most ancestral categories.
Some of the med ancestry could be from Turks/Turkish admixed MENA individuals who arrived in the Horn.In Berbera there are some families who have maternal "Turkish" ancestry probably from a few generations ago and Net Nomad posted a Harari sample on this thread with substantial Anatolian ancestry.Those Turks are probably Arabs or Egyptians who have Turkish origin though

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_Dynasty_map_en.png/1200px-Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_Dynasty_map_en.png

Deftextra
01-04-2021, 02:13 PM
There was 30,000 Italians in Somalia by 1930, intermarriage between the Italian men and Somali women was bound to happen.Besides the rebellions led by the Dir Biyomaal it seems the local Hawiye/Darood didn't put up much resistance to the settlers and the Italian colonial government.


Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. I know it must have happened since there are many historical records of it. I remember reading about a metro station in Rome being named after an Italian-Somali Anti-Nazi fighter a couple of months back:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53837708

BalkanKiwi
01-04-2021, 11:05 PM
I have to say this is very interesting. Off and on with 23andme updates my mom and I have either had small amounts of East African and or Sudanese. I also remember on Gedmatch we had some SNPs from Eritrea. I forget what that tool was on there to look for that, but I don't think they have it anymore.

Anyway with the the new 23andme update, my mom now has 0.5% Sudanese, and 0.2 Broadly Sub Saharan. I have a tiny 0.2 Sudanese, and 0.1 Broadly Sub Saharan. It stays down to the 90% confidence range. We are part Arbëreshë and get lots of matches to Greeks along with ancestor locations to Greece.

Even though not specifically related to your question, you may find my previous threads relating to SSA helpful in some way (I see you've viewed the Ashkenazi one):

Ashkenazi and Sub-Saharan ancestry tracing using segment matches and G25 modelling (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20374-Ashkenazi-and-Sub-Saharan-ancestry-tracing-using-segment-matches-and-G25-modelling)

Discovering father's minor Sub-Saharan African (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21443-Discovering-father-s-minor-Sub-Saharan-African)

maroco
01-04-2021, 11:32 PM
Even though not specifically related to your question, you may find my previous threads relating to SSA helpful in some way (I see you've viewed the Ashkenazi one):

Ashkenazi and Sub-Saharan ancestry tracing using segment matches and G25 modelling (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20374-Ashkenazi-and-Sub-Saharan-ancestry-tracing-using-segment-matches-and-G25-modelling)

Discovering father's minor Sub-Saharan African (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21443-Discovering-father-s-minor-Sub-Saharan-African)

East Africans and Eritreans can be heavily mixed with Levantine component, this is probably the reason behind the shared snps. I also scored some East African on my test which is due to Levantine component I believe

42321

gihanga.rwanda
01-06-2021, 02:52 PM
I came across these results on Reddit; the user is Toubou with a Chadian father and Libyan mother. I want to encourage her to run her raw data through Gedmatch and G25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/krewuq/my_results_tubuchad/

pgbk87
01-06-2021, 05:32 PM
I'd wager that this Toubou individual plots somewhere between a Sudanese Arab and a Fulani. They seem to have minimal West African ancestry and it seems strictly Senegambian in nature.

maroco
01-06-2021, 07:44 PM
I came across these results on Reddit; the user is Toubou with a Chadian father and Libyan mother. I want to encourage her to run her raw data through Gedmatch and G25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/krewuq/my_results_tubuchad/

Why is most of her dna showing up as Sudanese

Angoliga
01-06-2021, 08:19 PM
I'd wager that this Toubou individual plots somewhere between a Sudanese Arab and a Fulani.

Seems about right based on this PCA with the Daza (Toubou) appearing more or less intermediate between Fulani and Sudanese Arabs/Nubians -- pulling towards the upper-left midpoint here:

https://i.imgur.com/LXzOrPl.png


(Triska, 2015 (https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/7/12/3484/2467338#89469011))
There's some overlap with fellow Nilo-Saharan speakers (Samburu, Turkana).





They seem to have minimal West African ancestry and it seems strictly Senegambian in nature.

ADMIXTURE runs from this paper have them averaged around ~15-20% West-African, and they do appear to have more of the Senegambian variety you point out; heightened among West-Atlantic Africans (Mandenka, Gambians..).

Some WA-ancestry could also be embedded within "Sudanese" - 23andme's "Sudanese" seems to be a catchall for a wide range of North/South-Sudanese ancestry including the West-Central WA-African affinity found in Nilotes like Dinka but also including the North-African/Levantine affinities more commonplace in North-Sudanese pops.

DonFelipe observed the "Broad West-African" cluster having affinity with participants of Sahelian ancestry (Northern-Nigerians, Hausa and the like) - might be the same case for this guy

gihanga.rwanda
01-06-2021, 10:37 PM
Why is most of her dna showing up as Sudanese

Based on what we’ve seen from formal studies, the Toubou’s ancestry is similar to the Dinka and other Nilotes, but they have elevated West African and Maghrebi-related ancestry. This makes them similar but quite distinct from Fulanis and Sudanese Arabs/Nubians; the former are primarily West African (as opposed to Dinka-like) and the latter are more Eurasian shifted and have probably experienced multiple pulses of Eurasian admixture.

maroco
01-07-2021, 11:17 AM
I ended up pm Him he said he took the g25 test and scored And I ended up getting 29.09% Ibero, shocked his only Getting 3 percent North African in his 23 and me autosomal they need to sort that out

gihanga.rwanda
01-07-2021, 02:05 PM
I ended up pm Him he said he took the g25 test and scored And I ended up getting 29.09% Ibero, shocked his only Getting 3 percent North African in his 23 and me autosomal they need to sort that out

What were the rest of his results if you don’t mind me asking? And do you mean he scored 29% “Iberomaurusian”?

maroco
01-07-2021, 02:46 PM
What were the rest of his results if you don’t mind me asking? And do you mean he scored 29% “Iberomaurusian”?

Yes, I’ll ask for the rest of the results

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-07-2021, 04:15 PM
He has ancestry from the three coastal counties of Kenya ( Mombasa, Kilifi and Kwale )

Sub-Saharan African 72.6%
Western Asian & North African 20.3%
Central & South Asian 5.9%
East Asian & Native American 0.2%
Unassigned 1.0%

Individual from Mombasa I'm not sure what his ethnicity is however, his AC does look very similar to what the Bajuni people have.

Sub-Saharan African 58.8%
Central & South Asian 28.0%
Western Asian & North African 10.8%
East Asian & Native American 0.4%
Unassigned 2.0%

A Digo man from the Mijikenda tribe of Msambweni the south coast of Kenya

Sub-Saharan African 98.5%
Western Asian & North African 0.7%
Central & South Asian 0.3%
Unassigned 0.5%

She appears to be 1/2 Kikuyu 1/4 Eastern Ugandan and 1/4 ancestry coastal coming from Mombasa county.

Sub-Saharan African 99.9%
Congolese & Southern East African 82.8%
Northern East African 15.3%
West African 0.7%
African Hunter-Gatherer 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.7%
Unassigned 0.1%

His last name is very Congolese he is also Muslim. He has 0.8% Western Asian & North African ancestry perhaps he has a distant Zanzibari slave trader ancestor or he could just be from the coast of Kenya since a Bantu last name of an individual from one country can also be found in another country.

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.3%
Congolese & Southern East African 86.3%
Northern East African 12.2%
West African 0.1%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

Western Asian & North African 0.8%
Iranian, Caucasian & Mesopotamian 0.7%
Peninsular Arab 0.1%

A Kikuyu lady

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%
Congolese & Southern East African 66.9%
Northern East African 29.5%
West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 3.2%

gihanga.rwanda
01-07-2021, 04:36 PM
He has ancestry from the three coastal counties of Kenya ( Mombasa, Kilifi and Kwale )

Sub-Saharan African 72.6%
Western Asian & North African 20.3%
Central & South Asian 5.9%
East Asian & Native American 0.2%
Unassigned 1.0%

Individual from Mombasa I'm not sure what his ethnicity is however, his AC does look very similar to what the Bajuni people have.

Sub-Saharan African 58.8%
Central & South Asian 28.0%
Western Asian & North African 10.8%
East Asian & Native American 0.4%
Unassigned 2.0%

A Digo man from the Mijikenda tribe of Msambweni the south coast of Kenya

Sub-Saharan African 98.5%
Western Asian & North African 0.7%
Central & South Asian 0.3%
Unassigned 0.5%

She appears to be 1/2 Kikuyu 1/4 Eastern Ugandan and 1/4 ancestry coastal coming from Mombasa county.

Sub-Saharan African 99.9%
Congolese & Southern East African 82.8%
Northern East African 15.3%
West African 0.7%
African Hunter-Gatherer 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.7%
Unassigned 0.1%

His last name is very Congolese he is also Muslim. He has 0.8% Western Asian & North African ancestry perhaps he has a distant Zanzibari slave trader ancestor or he could just be from the coast of Kenya since a Bantu last name of an individual from one country can also be found in another country.

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.3%
Congolese & Southern East African 86.3%
Northern East African 12.2%
West African 0.1%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

Western Asian & North African 0.8%
Iranian, Caucasian & Mesopotamian 0.7%
Peninsular Arab 0.1%

A Kikuyu lady

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%
Congolese & Southern East African 66.9%
Northern East African 29.5%
West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 3.2%

I think it’s safe to assume he’s from somewhere in SE Africa since he has some minor NE African ancestry.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-08-2021, 09:35 PM
Zimbabwean - Paternal Haplogroup E-M4254 Maternal Haplogroup L2b2

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 97.4%

Angolan & Congolese 72.3%

Southern East African 20.3%

Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 4.8%

West African 1.4%

Nigerian 0.7%

Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.1%


Luo - Maternal Haplogroup R0a2

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%

Southern East African 87.9%

Northern East African 10.9%

Sudanese 7.5%

Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Broadly Northern East African 1.8%

West African 0.6%

Nigerian 0.2%

Senegambian & Guinean 0.2%

Broadly West African 0.2%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

ThaYamamoto
01-08-2021, 09:50 PM
Zimbabwean - Paternal Haplogroup E-M4254 Maternal Haplogroup L2b2

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 97.4%

Angolan & Congolese 72.3%

Southern East African 20.3%

Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 4.8%

West African 1.4%

Nigerian 0.7%

Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.1%


Luo - Maternal Haplogroup R0a2

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%

Southern East African 87.9%

Northern East African 10.9%

Sudanese 7.5%

Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Broadly Northern East African 1.8%

West African 0.6%

Nigerian 0.2%

Senegambian & Guinean 0.2%

Broadly West African 0.2%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

Very interesting mtdna for the Luo, must be mediated through Nandi ancestry perhaps? Or maybe via some other means...

drobbah
01-08-2021, 10:26 PM
There is a decent amount of cushitic uniparentals found in Western Kenya.On yfull for example there is a Luo E-V32 male sample ( E-Y37091)

ThaYamamoto
01-08-2021, 11:45 PM
There is a decent amount of cushitic uniparentals found in Western Kenya.On yfull for example there is a Luo E-V32 male sample ( E-Y37091)

I didn't know that, I do wonder how it got there. Although I have started to understand that a lot of groups were Luo-ized and perhaps this lineage was intermediated before a cultural/linguistic assimilation took place.

pgbk87
01-09-2021, 01:08 AM
Zimbabwean - Paternal Haplogroup E-M4254 Maternal Haplogroup L2b2

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 97.4%

Angolan & Congolese 72.3%

Southern East African 20.3%

Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 4.8%

West African 1.4%

Nigerian 0.7%

Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.1%


Luo - Maternal Haplogroup R0a2

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%

Southern East African 87.9%

Northern East African 10.9%

Sudanese 7.5%

Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Broadly Northern East African 1.8%

West African 0.6%

Nigerian 0.2%

Senegambian & Guinean 0.2%

Broadly West African 0.2%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

The Zimbabwean man has the same uniparental markers as me haha

drobbah
01-09-2021, 02:31 AM
I didn't know that, I do wonder how it got there. Although I have started to understand that a lot of groups were Luo-ized and perhaps this lineage was intermediated before a cultural/linguistic assimilation took place.
There are Luhya samples as well on yfull who are E-V32 & E-M293.It seems these groups have more cushitic uniparentals compared to groups like the Kikuyu who have actual minor cushitic admixture

Justnotyou
01-09-2021, 12:47 PM
There are Luhya samples as well on yfull who are E-V32 & E-M293.It seems these groups have more cushitic uniparentals compared to groups like the Kikuyu who have actual minor cushitic admixture

What I find interesting is the subclades for the Luhya & Luo samples vary enough to indicate to me they're from different sources, & each seem distinct enough to have not come directly from a cushitic community maybe that explains the lack of cushitic admixture in these groups?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V12/

The Luo & Luhya E-V32 variant clades.

drobbah
01-09-2021, 02:32 PM
What I find interesting is the subclades for the Luhya & Luo samples vary enough to indicate to me they're from different sources, & each seem distinct enough to have not come directly from a cushitic community maybe that explains the lack of cushitic admixture in these groups?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V12/

The Luo & Luhya E-V32 variant clades.
The Luhya clades are literally E-Z813; I would go as far as to predict that they descend from men who once spoke an East Cushitic language

ThaYamamoto
01-09-2021, 03:53 PM
The Luhya clades are literally E-Z813; I would go as far as to predict that they descend from men who once spoke an East Cushitic language

In the case of the Luhya it has to be Bukusu who have intermingled with Kalenjin heavily, now far as I know Kalenjin have many Cushitic uniparentals?

drobbah
01-09-2021, 09:28 PM
In the case of the Luhya it has to be Bukusu who have intermingled with Kalenjin heavily, now far as I know Kalenjin have many Cushitic uniparentals?
I couldn't find anything specific to the Kalenjin but there is a study that had Western Nilotics of Kenya at 45% E-M35/M78 with 9% E-V12 (forefather of V32), 18% E-M293 & V22 but not any E-V32.The masai and Luhya do show significant percentages of V32 tho which suggests that East Cushitic men were absorbed by Masai/Kalenjin type PIA looking peoples who were then also absorbed by the Luhya

Justnotyou
01-10-2021, 09:29 AM
I couldn't find anything specific to the Kalenjin but there is a study that had Western Nilotics of Kenya at 45% E-M35/M78 with 9% E-V12 (forefather of V32), 18% E-M293 & V22 but not any E-V32.The masai and Luhya do show significant percentages of V32 tho which suggests that East Cushitic men were absorbed by Masai/Kalenjin type PIA looking peoples who were then also absorbed by the Luhya

Can I get the study, all the articles I have right now with some Nilosaharan haplogroups are https://www.nature.com/articles/5201408 &

Justnotyou
01-10-2021, 09:58 AM
The Luhya clades are literally E-Z813; I would go as far as to predict that they descend from men who once spoke an East Cushitic language

I'm a novice here, the registered users shouldn't confuse you or anyone here, lol I'm junior member till maybe 2022 so thank you for the insightful response. I oversimplified the context of my excerpt by not taking into account the implications of regarding the subclades as distinct enough. Still there is need for more samples to be included.

Isn't E-V12* a proto-cushitic haplogroup, or at least proto-North Cushites like the beja & their ancestors the medjey? So it really wasn't up for debate if these or any E-V32 clades were from Cushites imo, I believe an intermediate group like the Kalenjin Yamamoto or the Pastoral_IA you've described would be more sensible to explain how it permeated into these western Kenyan communities?

Even if it didn't carry any substantial cushitic admixture it probably came with the high KEN_LSA that's usually picked up in your models, No?

drobbah
01-10-2021, 11:07 PM
Isn't E-V12* a proto-cushitic haplogroup, or at least proto-North Cushites like the beja & their ancestors the medjey?

E-V12 and the sub branches of this haplogroup was probably prominent among Egyptians,later migrations of Cushitic speakers and probably early Chadic speakers.



So it really wasn't up for debate if these or any E-V32 clades were from Cushites imo, I believe an intermediate group like the Kalenjin Yamamoto or the Pastoral_IA you've described would be more sensible to explain how it permeated into these western Kenyan communities?

I clearly said in a previous post that E-Z813 which looks to be a solid proto-East Cushitic lineage only made it's way into the Luhya because the Nilotes absorbed these men and they (the Nilotes) were absorbed by the incoming Bantu Luhya.



Even if it didn't carry any substantial cushitic admixture it probably came with the high KEN_LSA that's usually picked up in your models, No?
I wouldn't be surprised if specific sections of the Luhya who descend from recently absorbed Nilo-Hamites have a decent amount of Cushitic ancestry unlike the rest of the Luhya.The Luhya are an interesting case as they have lineages that belong to South Cushites (E-M293) and East Cushites (E-V32) like the Masai

ThaYamamoto
01-11-2021, 01:19 AM
E-V12 and the sub branches of this haplogroup was probably prominent among Egyptians,later migrations of Cushitic speakers and probably early Chadic speakers.


I clearly said in a previous post that E-Z813 which looks to be a solid proto-East Cushitic lineage only made it's way into the Luhya because the Nilotes absorbed these men and they (the Nilotes) were absorbed by the incoming Bantu Luhya.



I wouldn't be surprised if specific sections of the Luhya who descend from recently absorbed Nilo-Hamites have a decent amount of Cushitic ancestry unlike the rest of the Luhya.The Luhya are an interesting case as they have lineages that belong to South Cushites (E-M293) and East Cushites (E-V32) like the Masai

In the case of Bukusu/Webuye Luhyas as mentioned there is the clear Cushitic-link, however I haven't seen evidence for anything more than 2-4% Cushitic ancestry in them. I can't see Maragoli (heavily Nilotic if not the most Nilotic-admixed of all), or Luhyas from Vihiga, Kakamega etc having anything more than noise levels if the Webuye Luhya [i.e. Bukusu] on the g25 barely register any. The only probable link is intermarriage and assimilation of Nandi/Kikuyu/Masai as well as migrants from Uganda all of which we know through oral history and even observations of the British [usually very credible] otherwise the Cushitic component would be far more visible/significant. Now in terms of the Luo peoples exhibiting these uniparentals and even Cushitic ancestral components based on the commercial tests etc, you might very well be on to something. Luo's are odd in that some Luo peoples seem to be barely Nilotic at all [Homa Bay]. Assimilation seems to be the game.

Justnotyou
01-11-2021, 07:22 AM
In the case of Bukusu/Webuye Luhyas as mentioned there is the clear Cushitic-link, however I haven't seen evidence for anything more than 2-4% Cushitic ancestry in them. I can't see Maragoli (heavily Nilotic if not the most Nilotic-admixed of all), or Luhyas from Vihiga, Kakamega etc having anything more than noise levels if the Webuye Luhya [i.e. Bukusu] on the g25 barely register any. The only probable link is intermarriage and assimilation of Nandi/Kikuyu/Masai as well as migrants from Uganda all of which we know through oral history and even observations of the British [usually very credible] otherwise the Cushitic component would be far more visible/significant. Now in terms of the Luo peoples exhibiting these uniparentals and even Cushitic ancestral components based on the commercial tests etc, you might very well be on to something. Luo's are odd in that some Luo peoples seem to be barely Nilotic at all [Homa Bay]. Assimilation seems to be the game.

Kenyan & Tanzanian Luos are even today continually absorbing the Suba-Bantu in the Kavirondo region so the communities that are nearby should undoubtedly be more Bantu.

Their oral accounts even suggest of only three distinct nilotic migrations yet today they have over 30 clans & from their language it's easy to deduce its mostly a Pathola Ugandan Luo dialect. I suspect with more commercialized tests & a larger sample size their will be collaborating evidence of this.

Justnotyou
01-11-2021, 07:39 AM
E-V12 and the sub branches of this haplogroup was probably prominent among Egyptians,later migrations of Cushitic speakers and probably early Chadic speakers.


I clearly said in a previous post that E-Z813 which looks to be a solid proto-East Cushitic lineage only made it's way into the Luhya because the Nilotes absorbed these men and they (the Nilotes) were absorbed by the incoming Bantu Luhya.



I wouldn't be surprised if specific sections of the Luhya who descend from recently absorbed Nilo-Hamites have a decent amount of Cushitic ancestry unlike the rest of the Luhya.The Luhya are an interesting case as they have lineages that belong to South Cushites (E-M293) and East Cushites (E-V32) like the Masai

Yes & that's picked up in spite of the not so good sample size.

I've noticed while I was in Kenya, unlike most of the Northern Kenyan communities the southerners tend to be less endogormous especially the more urban ones, the shift that is currently taking place in these communities can not be understated.

I bet in a few generations the Luhya will be more like the Kikuyu today & both by the turn of this century might become the new Maasais.

Deftextra
01-13-2021, 03:08 AM
My heritage match. My heritage is quite popular among my relatives for some reason. We are likely related on my fathers side:


East Africa: 27.9%
Somali 17.3%
Kenyan 4.4%
Massai 6.2%
West Africa 8.2%
Nigerian 4.0%
Sierra Leonean 2.2%
West African 2.0%

South Asian 21.8%
West Asian 18.0%
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi 10%
West Asian 7.1%

Middle East 19.5%

East Europe 2.1%
Balkan 2.1%

Indigenous Amazonian 1.6%


He tested at My heritage. Uploads tend to give weird results from what I have noticed.

ThaYamamoto
01-22-2021, 02:15 AM
My most recent 23andme match, from Cape Verde, seems a standard Cape Verdean result from what I've seen.

42746

What's interesting is I never score any Senegambian on any test, suggesting no IBS between myself and Senegambian populations and yet me and her share 2 large segments on African portions of our chromosomes. Haven't run a segment calculation yet but will be interesting to see. I guess there is a shared haplotype/IBD segment with Atlantic-Congo peoples and myself that gets lost in most analyses, possibly going some way in explaining my high Afram/Afro-Carribbean number of matches. Will run some oracles on the chromosome positions and see what's up. I could post a hundred of these from Ancestry its crazy lol.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-22-2021, 06:32 PM
My heritage match. My heritage is quite popular among my relatives for some reason. We are likely related on my fathers side:


East Africa: 27.9%
Somali 17.3%
Kenyan 4.4%
Massai 6.2%
West Africa 8.2%
Nigerian 4.0%
Sierra Leonean 2.2%
West African 2.0%

South Asian 21.8%
West Asian 18.0%
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi 10%
West Asian 7.1%

Middle East 19.5%

East Europe 2.1%
Balkan 2.1%

Indigenous Amazonian 1.6%


He tested at My heritage. Uploads tend to give weird results from what I have noticed.

I wonder where the Bantu ancestry in Reer Xmars comes from I'm guessing its from Swahili merchants. Was common for Swahili merchants in the past settle in Mogadishu & along Somalia's Coast and marry into the Reer Xamar community?

The new feature genetic groups I don't know what this shows does it show historical genetic groups an individual matches? Portugal is highlighted on mine the Portuguese did rule Mombasa violently from 1593 to 1729 I wonder if that could be why its highlighted :noidea:

42756

My-Heritage DNA results from the 23andme raw data I uploaded.

42755

AFRICA
Kenyan
48.9%
Eastern Africa (Rwanda, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Burundi)
Nigerian
28.2%
Maasai
17.3%
Central African
1.4%

ASIA
West Asian
4.2%

ADDITIONAL GENETIC GROUPS
Suriname, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago and Africa (Nigeria, Liberia, Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana)
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Croatia and Turkey

drobbah
01-22-2021, 06:42 PM
I wonder where the Bantu ancestry in Reer Xmars comes from I'm guessing its from Swahili merchants. Was common for Swahili merchants in the past settle in Mogadishu & along Somalia's Coast and marry into the Reer Xamar community?

The new feature genetic groups I don't know what this shows does it show historical genetic groups an individual matches? Portugal is highlighted on mine the Portuguese did rule Mombasa violently from 1593 to 1729 I wonder if that could be why its highlighted :noidea:

42756

My-Heritage DNA results from the 23andme raw data I uploaded.

42755

AFRICA
Kenyan
48.9%
Eastern Africa (Rwanda, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Burundi)
Nigerian
28.2%
Maasai
17.3%
Central African
1.4%

ASIA
West Asian
4.2%

ADDITIONAL GENETIC GROUPS
Suriname, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago and Africa (Nigeria, Liberia, Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana)
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Croatia and Turkey
I think there are Swahili speakers on the Banadir coast and on an island close to Kismayo.Tbh Southern Somalia's coast can be considered historically to be an extension of the Swahili coast

Deftextra
01-23-2021, 03:37 AM
I wonder where the Bantu ancestry in Reer Xmars comes from I'm guessing its from Swahili merchants. Was common for Swahili merchants in the past settle in Mogadishu & along Somalia's Coast and marry into the Reer Xamar community?

The new feature genetic groups I don't know what this shows does it show historical genetic groups an individual matches? Portugal is highlighted on mine the Portuguese did rule Mombasa violently from 1593 to 1729 I wonder if that could be why its highlighted :noidea:

42756

My-Heritage DNA results from the 23andme raw data I uploaded.

42755

AFRICA
Kenyan
48.9%
Eastern Africa (Rwanda, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Burundi)
Nigerian
28.2%
Maasai
17.3%
Central African
1.4%

ASIA
West Asian
4.2%

ADDITIONAL GENETIC GROUPS
Suriname, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago and Africa (Nigeria, Liberia, Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana)
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Croatia and Turkey


I am not sure to what extend, but I believe there always has been population movement from the north to the south of the coast in particular. For example there are Swahili speaking Benadari in Baarwa, and my mothers clan also has a connection to Tanzania, since there was a migration of the clan to the mrima coast in the 18th and 17th century who are no locally referred to as Shonvi or Jomvu if I remember correctly.

There is also historical evidence of my mothers clan in particular migrating from Yemen to pate via Brava around the sixteenth century (according to the locals there).

drobbah
01-23-2021, 01:09 PM
I think there are Swahili speakers on the Banadir coast and on an island close to Kismayo.Tbh Southern Somalia's coast can be considered historically to be an extension of the Swahili coast
It is also possible some of their Bantu admixture came from Somalia's large Bantu community which has been there for generations.The estimates I seen, they make up 10% of Somalia's (Somaliland excluded) population.The Bantus are diverse themselves with the Bajuni basically being Swahili people while others originally hail from as far South as Tanzania.

pgbk87
01-23-2021, 07:15 PM
It is also possible some of their Bantu admixture came from Somalia's large Bantu community which has been there for generations.The estimates I seen, they make up 10% of Somalia's (Somaliland excluded) population.The Bantus are diverse themselves with the Bajuni basically being Swahili people while others originally hail from as far South as Tanzania.

I met a few Bajunis when I was in Watamu, Kenya. Ridiculously pretty place by the way. The rock formations, cove beaches, quartz/coral mixed sand and water color are world class.

The Bajunis I saw looked Somali-admixed and some could very well pass as Somali. They looked minimally Bantu influenced.

drobbah
01-23-2021, 07:26 PM
I met a few Bajunis when I was in Watamu, Kenya. Ridiculously pretty place by the way. The rock formations, cove beaches, quartz/coral mixed sand and water color are world class.

The Bajunis I saw looked Somali-admixed and some could very well pass as Somali. They looked minimally Bantu influenced.
I met only one in my life, he did some work on my family's house couple years back in Somaliland, dude was complaining about the marginalization of his people by the local Somalis in Kismayo but he looked like those Afro-Arabs from Hadhramawt and Saudi.They are probably a very heterogenous bunch

ThaYamamoto
01-23-2021, 10:12 PM
My most recent 23andme match, from Cape Verde, seems a standard Cape Verdean result from what I've seen.

42746

What's interesting is I never score any Senegambian on any test, suggesting no IBS between myself and Senegambian populations and yet me and her share 2 large segments on African portions of our chromosomes. Haven't run a segment calculation yet but will be interesting to see. I guess there is a shared haplotype/IBD segment with Atlantic-Congo peoples and myself that gets lost in most analyses, possibly going some way in explaining my high Afram/Afro-Carribbean number of matches. Will run some oracles on the chromosome positions and see what's up. I could post a hundred of these from Ancestry its crazy lol.

Will run the segment analysis a little later just getting the HapMap calculator to work as it includes a YRI and LWK component which is perfect. Here's a few more of my Afram (and one Caribbean from Antigua) matches on 23andme (all of whom are haplogroup L2 ladies). I don't match any dudes on 23andme but there are a few on Ancestry.

42815 - Afram - Texas roots

42816 - Afram - Texas roots

42820- Afro-Caribbean - Antigua roots

42818 - Afram - Virginia and the Carolina's roots

42819 - Afram - Unspecified roots possibly Texas or Virginia waiting on a response

gihanga.rwanda
01-23-2021, 10:54 PM
I’ve never met any Bajunis myself but from what I can tell, most of them don’t look very different from other native northern Swahili speakers, ranging from a typical coastal Eastern Bantu to a more admixed “Afro-Arab” phenotype. That being said, a study from a few years back (see below) did find a few individuals who identified as Swahili but clustered with Somalis, which suggests the recent/ongoing integration of Somali or other East Cushitic (e.g. Orma, etc.) individuals into established Swahili communities in Kenya and perhaps Somalia.

You can’t find too many videos of Bajunis but I found a few on YouTube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kP56xv1NP_Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zOSQQibW8RQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOpSUxefiaY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgHYsevqXs8

^ The girl on the left is the native Bajuni speaker. I am not sure about the guy’s ethnicity, but if I had to guess, I’d bet he’s Kikuyu.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcqxMLYTEQA

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322259881_The_Comoros_Show_the_Earliest_Austronesi an_Gene_Flow_into_the_Swahili_Corridor


Whereas Comor-ians cluster together genetically according to their respec-tive islands, the three Kenyan Swahili communities areundifferentiated and form a single cluster. Nine Swahili in-dividuals fall outside this main cluster and instead groupwith Somali individuals and perhaps reflecting recent mi-grants (Figure S3). These individuals are also outliers inthe PCA plot and were excluded from subsequent analysesof the Swahili because these data would bias analyses onpast demographic processes. However, we note that theyrepresent a non-negligible number of individuals in oursampling (9 out of 91), suggesting a relatively importantnumber of recently integrated individuals of Somali origin,many of whom are present in Kenya,56into Swahiligroups.”


The Swahili populations have onemajor component (dark green in Figure 2) that is alsopresent in other Bantu-speaking groups, but in higherpercentages, similar those in South Africa. Other minorancestries are shared with populations from the Horn ofAfrica (brown gradient) and western Bantu speakers (lightgreen). No Asian or Middle Eastern genetic ancestry isdistinguishable in the Kenyan Swahili, highlighting theindigenous African origins of the Swahili people. Thisabsence is the main difference between the Kenyan Swahiliand Comorians, who do share genetic ancestry withMiddle Eastern (purple gradient: 6%–7%) and IslandSoutheast Asian individuals (yellow gradient: 8%–9%).

I found it interesting that this sample group of Swahilis appear to be overwhelmingly Bantu and not as cosmopolitan as some of the Swahili individuals I’ve seen on 23andme. This isn’t really surprising, I think we should expect to see some substructure in the Swahili, given their recent history and widespread distribution.

Is Bantu ancestry present in the Reer Xamar or only Bravanese? The minor (10-20%) presence in the latter could be attributed to an early and more generic Swahili founding population (possibly related to the Bajuni or a similar population) that would later receive gene flow from neighboring Somalis and Arabian/South Asian merchants, etc.

drobbah
01-23-2021, 11:23 PM
I think the vast majority of the Cushitic ancestry in the Banadiri is probably of Raxanweyn Af-Maay Maay origin and other related Omo-Tana speakers not actual af-maxay tidhi Somali ancestry from the North.

I think it was only in the middle ages when the first powerful Somali groups from the North (Somaliland) took hold of Somalia's coast for the first time like the Ajuuraan and other succeeding waves of pastoralist Somali clans like the Hiraab (Hawiye) with the last wave of Somalis like the Darood who pushed the Orma deep into Kenya and continuing their own expansion into modern Kenya up untill the British arrived.

The Darood expansion is so recent that the Somali spoken in Garissa is more similar to what is now being spoken in Jigjiga (Ethiopia),Hargeisa (Somaliland) and Djibouti compared to the distinct dialect of Banadir's coast who's Af-Maxay Somalis have been settled there for many centuries.

ThaYamamoto
01-24-2021, 12:06 AM
I’ve never met any Bajunis myself but from what I can tell, most of them don’t look very different from other native northern Swahili speakers, ranging from a typical coastal Eastern Bantu to a more admixed “Afro-Arab” phenotype. That being said, a study from a few years back (see below) did find a few individuals who identified as Swahili but clustered with Somalis, which suggests the recent/ongoing integration of Somali or other East Cushitic (e.g. Orma, etc.) individuals into established Swahili communities in Kenya and perhaps Somalia.

You can’t find too many videos of Bajunis but I found a few on YouTube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kP56xv1NP_Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zOSQQibW8RQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOpSUxefiaY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgHYsevqXs8

^ The girl on the left is the native Bajuni speaker. I am not sure about the guy’s ethnicity, but if I had to guess, I’d bet he’s Kikuyu.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcqxMLYTEQA

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322259881_The_Comoros_Show_the_Earliest_Austronesi an_Gene_Flow_into_the_Swahili_Corridor





I found it interesting that this sample group of Swahilis appear to be overwhelmingly Bantu and not as cosmopolitan as some of the Swahili individuals I’ve seen on 23andme. This isn’t really surprising, I think we should expect to see some substructure in the Swahili, given their recent history and widespread distribution.

Is Bantu ancestry present in the Reer Xamar or only Bravanese? The minor (10-20%) presence in the latter could be attributed to an early and more generic Swahili founding population (possibly related to the Bajuni or a similar population) that would later receive gene flow from neighboring Somalis and Arabian/South Asian merchants, etc.

Yeah he's kikuyu lol...dude looks exactly like crenshaw rapper Buddy...who doesn't look Afram hisself...weird.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-24-2021, 06:08 PM
I met a few Bajunis when I was in Watamu, Kenya. Ridiculously pretty place by the way. The rock formations, cove beaches, quartz/coral mixed sand and water color are world class.

The Bajunis I saw looked Somali-admixed and some could very well pass as Somali. They looked minimally Bantu influenced.

Yeah here in Mombasa almost all the Bajunis ive seen look Bantu-Arab & also Bantu + Somali + Yemeni which is what makes them distinct from the local Swahili community clans in Mombasa like the one im from the ( Wa-Jomvu), Wa-Chagamwe, Wa-Kilindini, Wa-Mvita & Wa-Tangana who most of the time look pure Bantu.

The Bajunis themselves consider themselves distinct from other Swahili communities despite many similarities we have with them.

A few of my Bajuni friends also have this Cushitic + Yemeni + Significant Bantu phenotype I'd like to post their pictures and discuss it further but I guess ill just have to follow the rules of Anthrogenica.

Deftextra
01-25-2021, 04:16 AM
It is also possible some of their Bantu admixture came from Somalia's large Bantu community which has been there for generations.The estimates I seen, they make up 10% of Somalia's (Somaliland excluded) population.The Bantus are diverse themselves with the Bajuni basically being Swahili people while others originally hail from as far South as Tanzania.

Yeah. My guess is that most of our bantu admixture comes via our other ancestry and we likely already had bantu admixture before we obtained our Somali admixture, which my guess came from a later events. Also, the majority of us have recent Somali admixture (grand mothers and fathers), which is very common.

Deftextra
01-25-2021, 04:19 AM
Yeah here in Mombasa almost all the Bajunis ive seen look Bantu-Arab & also Bantu + Somali + Yemeni which is what makes them distinct from the local Swahili community clans in Mombasa like the one im from the ( Wa-Jomvu), Wa-Chagamwe, Wa-Kilindini, Wa-Mvita & Wa-Tangana who most of the time look pure Bantu.

The Bajunis themselves consider themselves distinct from other Swahili communities despite many similarities we have with them.

A few of my Bajuni friends also have this Cushitic + Yemeni + Significant Bantu phenotype I'd like to post their pictures and discuss it further but I guess ill just have to follow the rules of Anthrogenica.

I have seen a few Banjuni results. They are very similar to Benadiris minus our Cushitic Admixutre. If it wasn't for our Cushitic admixture, we would almost be identical.

drobbah
01-25-2021, 11:21 AM
Yeah. My guess is that most of our bantu admixture comes via our other ancestry and we likely already had bantu admixture before we obtained our Somali admixture, which my guess came from a later events. Also, the majority of us have recent Somali admixture (grand mothers and fathers), which is very common.
You think prior to the last three generations the Benadiris didn't mix with the local Somalis & Raxanweyn (Tunni for example)?

Deftextra
01-25-2021, 03:55 PM
You think prior to the last three generations the Benadiris didn't mix with the local Somalis & Raxanweyn (Tunni for example)?

No. Most likely we did, considering our maternal lineages is mostly local to the area. However, after independence especially, there has been allot more intermixing with local Somalis from what I have heard and can make out. My guess is this directly coincides with the urbanization of towns like Mogadishu in the last century.

drobbah
01-25-2021, 04:37 PM
No. Most likely we did, considering our maternal lineages is mostly local to the area. However, after independence especially, there has been allot more intermixing with local Somalis from what I have heard and can make out. My guess is this directly coincides with the urbanization of towns like Mogadishu in the last century.
From the 23andme results I've seen from Southern Somalis & Raxanweyn is that many of them have higher frequencies of trace South Asian & West Asian ancestry compared to other Somalis.Some of that could be from Banadiri females especially the old coastal clans but also the interior clans could have been impacted by Benadiri-like Sheekhash/Sheekhaal individuals could have also spread said ancestry in the interior.It probably was a bi-directional geneflow, the biyomaal sultan that signed a treaty with the Italians looked very Benadiri admixed himself.

Deftextra
01-26-2021, 09:55 PM
From the 23andme results I've seen from Southern Somalis & Raxanweyn is that many of them have higher frequencies of trace South Asian & West Asian ancestry compared to other Somalis.Some of that could be from Banadiri females especially the old coastal clans but also the interior clans could have been impacted by Benadiri-like Sheekhash/Sheekhaal individuals could have also spread said ancestry in the interior.It probably was a bi-directional geneflow, the biyomaal sultan that signed a treaty with the Italians looked very Benadiri admixed himself.

Yeah. I have many Somali matches. The ones I match closest with almost always have minor south/west Asian ancestry.

I have also read somewhere that it was common for bandari clans to form alliances with the main clans through marriage in return for things like protection.

Deftextra
01-27-2021, 10:29 PM
Distant Myheritage match from the Comoros Islands:
Surprising how similar we are.


42891
42892

East Africa 30.1%
Kenyan 30.1%
Central African 3.8%
West Africa 17.9%
Nigerian 15.2%
West African2.7%
South Asia 15.4%%
South Asian 13.0%
Nepali 2.4%
West Asia 1.9%
East Asia 2.0%
Filipino, Indonesian and Malay 1.0%
Chinese and Vietnamese 1.0%
Middle-Eastern 21.7%
Europe 1.8%
Ashkenazi jew 1.8%

gihanga.rwanda
01-27-2021, 11:42 PM
Distant Myheritage match from the Comoros Islands:
Surprising how similar we are.


42891
42892

East Africa 30.1%
Kenyan 30.1%
Central African 3.8%
West Africa 17.9%
Nigerian 15.2%
West African2.7%
South Asia 19.3%
South Asian 13.0%
Nepali 2.4%
West Asia 1.9%
East Asia 2.0%
Filipino, Indonesian and Malay 1.0%
Chinese and Vietnamese 1.0%


Are those your results in the screenshot?

Edit: Do you know what’s up with the second set of results? The bold text only adds up to 75%.

Deftextra
01-28-2021, 05:03 PM
Are those your results in the screenshot?

Edit: Do you know what’s up with the second set of results? The bold text only adds up to 75%.

Thanks for pointing that out. Her results are on the right and I forgot to add her Middle-eastern percentage.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-28-2021, 08:43 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917

drobbah
01-28-2021, 08:50 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally[ from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917
Have they tested or is this just based off phenotype?

Deftextra
01-28-2021, 09:02 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally[ from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917

Could be that they look pseudo Cushitic. The My heritage match from the Comoros looks also very Cushitic like but has no Cushitic admixture in her results.

I have not yet seen Banjuni results with Cushitic admixture, but would not be surprised if there are some who do, since we obviously do not have many Banjuni results.

drobbah
01-28-2021, 09:29 PM
They look like regular Afro-Arabs (Bantu-Arabian mixes) imo except the third dude.Guy looks like your average highland Habesha/ Northern shifted Oromo lmao.I highly doubt many Bajunis have Somali ancestry considering the Darood,Dir and Samaale Somalis are relatively recent to Jubaland (been there only for the last 2 centuries) plus Somalis tend to be very xenophobic and discriminatory when it comes to intermixing with Bantus.The regular Bantus of the south themselves probably don't carry much Somali ancestry just like the Bajuni.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-29-2021, 04:50 AM
Have they tested or is this just based off phenotype?

Yup based on their phenotype in my opinion

gihanga.rwanda
01-29-2021, 06:05 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917

I can see why one could mistake these guys for Somali at first glance or from a distance but I agree with drobbah. If I met these guys in person, I’d probably mistake number 1 for Sudanese Arab/Nubian and number 3 for Habesha. The other two look more typically Swahili “Arab”, especially number 4 with his swag... he looks like a lot of the hipster guys I met in Mombasa on my last visit to Kenya. lol

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-01-2021, 01:23 PM
My-Heritage match she gets 19.1% Ethiopian Jewish plus 14.6% Kenyan and 3.3% Sierra Leonean I wonder what ethnicity & tribe she might be.

Africa
37.0%
East Africa
33.7%
Kenyan
14.6%
Ethiopian Jewish
19.1%
West Africa
3.3%
Sierra Leonean
3.3%

Middle East
37.8%

Asia
24.2%
West Asia
15.6%
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
15.6%
South Asian
8.6%

Europe
1.0%
Ashkenazi Jewish
1.0%

ThaYamamoto
02-05-2021, 10:21 PM
Found this on my phone - Congolese from Kinshasa relative match. Almost 100% Cameroonian/Congolese

43069

mpatsibihugu89
02-05-2021, 11:43 PM
Found this on my phone - Congolese from Kinshasa relative match. Almost 100% Cameroonian/Congolese

43069

Great. Their cameroon/congo component is good. Have you seen anyone do well on the 'Angolan & Congolese' from 23andme?

ThaYamamoto
02-06-2021, 12:20 AM
Great. Their cameroon/congo component is good. Have you seen anyone do well on the 'Angolan & Congolese' from 23andme?

I haven't, I did see an Angolan on reddit once but I think she hit around 70-80%. Same with a girl from DRC but I'm can't recall fully. The problem with 23andme imo is they don't include any Cameroonians which is a big mistake.

mpatsibihugu89
02-06-2021, 06:06 AM
I haven't, I did see an Angolan on reddit once but I think she hit around 70-80%. Same with a girl from DRC but I'm can't recall fully. The problem with 23andme imo is they don't include any Cameroonians which is a big mistake.

True...i have seen some cameroonian get assigned recent ancestor location thru Broadly West Africa. So weird.
43086

Deftextra
02-06-2021, 02:39 PM
Distant AncestryDNA Ethiopian match. His name is Amharic, not sure about his ethnicity.
43093

ThaYamamoto
02-06-2021, 02:57 PM
Distant AncestryDNA Ethiopian match. His name is Amharic, not sure about his ethnicity.
43093

Wow he must be virtually identical to the reference sample

drobbah
02-06-2021, 02:58 PM
My father has a bunch of pure Oromo matches there but they all score 40-50% Somali.I assume the reference sample is Tigray or Amhara

Deftextra
02-06-2021, 07:45 PM
My father has a bunch of pure Oromo matches there but they all score 40-50% Somali.I assume the reference sample is Tigray or Amhara

I recently discovered that there are Benadiri with Amhara great grand mothers. I am not sure how common this is, but my guess is that our Ethiopian percentage is not entirely false, but mostly likely over-inflated, because we are mixed with populations who have overlapping deep ancestry which throws off many calculators.

drobbah
02-06-2021, 07:58 PM
I recently discovered that there are Benadiri with Amhara great grand mothers. I am not sure how common this is, but my guess is that our Ethiopian percentage is not entirely false, but mostly likely over-inflated, because we are mixed with populations who have overlapping deep ancestry which throws off many calculators.
That's very weird, especially for southerners like Benadiris who are extremely far away from the highlands main population centers.I haven't read any historical interactions between the central and northern Ethiopian highlands and South Somalia besides the presence of the Orma Oromos in the South at one point.I have heard that Eritreans moved to South Somalia during the Italian colonization tho and vice versa

Deftextra
02-06-2021, 08:18 PM
That's very weird, especially for southerners like Benadiris who are extremely far away from the highlands main population centers.I haven't read any historical interactions between the central and northern Ethiopian highlands and South Somalia besides the presence of the Orma Oromos in the South at one point.I have heard that Eritreans moved to South Somalia during the Italian colonization tho and vice versa

Yeah, what I was thinking as well. My first thought was that it must have come during the Italian period, but your guess is as best as mine. I have met exactly 3 people who claim have such ancestry. I also have been told a story by my grand mother of her grand father travelling to a mountains area deep inland and marrying a local there, she explicitly stated that she was not Somali, but did not know here ethnicity.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-13-2021, 04:06 PM
My 23andme DNA relative his Y haplogroup is E-M78 his Sudanese % is also very high

Sub-Saharan African 84.3%

Northern East African 50.3%
Sudanese 50.2%
Broadly Northern East African 0.1%

Congolese & Southern East African 31.5%
Angolan & Congolese 15.0%
Southern East African 13.6%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 2.9%

West African 1.2%
Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.7%
Nigerian 0.1%
Senegambian & Guinean 0.0%
Broadly West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.3%

Western Asian & North Africa 14.6%

Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 13.1%
Peninsular Arab 13.1%
Northern West Asian 0.8%
Cypriot 0.8%
North African 0.5%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 0.2%

Central & South Asian 1.0%

Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%

Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%
Southern Indian Subgroup 0.2%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.6%

Unassigned 0.1%

mpatsibihugu89
02-14-2021, 12:50 AM
My 23andme DNA relative his Y haplogroup is E-M78 his Sudanese % is also very high

Sub-Saharan African 84.3%

Northern East African 50.3%
Sudanese 50.2%
Broadly Northern East African 0.1%

Congolese & Southern East African 31.5%
Angolan & Congolese 15.0%
Southern East African 13.6%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 2.9%

West African 1.2%
Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.7%
Nigerian 0.1%
Senegambian & Guinean 0.0%
Broadly West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.3%

Western Asian & North Africa 14.6%

Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 13.1%
Peninsular Arab 13.1%
Northern West Asian 0.8%
Cypriot 0.8%
North African 0.5%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 0.2%

Central & South Asian 1.0%

Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%

Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%
Southern Indian Subgroup 0.2%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.6%

Unassigned 0.1%

What peoples does he identify with? Very Interesting breakdown.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-14-2021, 10:15 AM
What peoples does he identify with? Very Interesting breakdown.

I dont know but I'm guessing that he is Tanzanian because his last name is commonly found in Tanzania plus also in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

swhl
02-23-2021, 09:41 AM
Uploaded my FTDNA results to MyHeritage since all the advanced features are free for everyone this week! Again very logical because of my country's history but the percentages are extremely different from FamilyTreeDNA. Very impressed that they were able to pinpoint the Comoros precisely.
43465
43466
43467
43468

Tsakhur
02-23-2021, 12:59 PM
Uploaded my FTDNA results to MyHeritage since all the advanced features are free for everyone this week! Again very logical because of my country's history but the percentages are extremely different from FamilyTreeDNA. Very impressed that they were able to pinpoint the Comoros precisely.
43465
43466
43467
43468

Wow you have minor East Asian (Philippine-Indonesia-Malaysia) ancestry! Is that common for Comorians? What's the highest East Asian that a Comorian can score? Moreover, how common is it for Comorians to score South Asian?

Brwn_trd
02-23-2021, 01:34 PM
Wow you have minor East Asian (Philippine-Indonesia-Malaysia) ancestry! Is that common for Comorians? What's the highest East Asian that a Comorian can score? Moreover, how common is it for Comorians to score South Asian?

Could be related to Madagascar? They are not that far apart and there is history of maritime contact.

swhl
02-23-2021, 02:59 PM
Wow you have minor East Asian (Philippine-Indonesia-Malaysia) ancestry! Is that common for Comorians? What's the highest East Asian that a Comorian can score? Moreover, how common is it for Comorians to score South Asian?

SEA is relatively common for Comorians, we're very close to Madagascar and traded/intermarried with them. Some studies also say that the Austronesian ancestors of the Malagasies came in the Comoros Archipelago first before going to Madagascar, meaning the SEA component is older in our country.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929717304640
The highest percentage for a Comorian would be 13-15 something percent with 7-10% on average. The only ones who would score more would be on the island of Mayotte, they have a very great history of trade with Madagascar and their culture is very much implanted there, more than in the other islands. A great part of their population speak Shibushi which is a dialect of Malagasy. Same for South Asian, we've been greatly influenced by Indian culture just like the rest of the Swahili Coast, they were great merchants and travelled all over East Africa so it isn't surprising or unusual, actually most of us do score it.

Tsakhur
02-23-2021, 03:23 PM
SEA is relatively common for Comorians, we're very close to Madagascar and traded/intermarried with them. Some studies also say that the Austronesian ancestors of the Malagasies came in the Comoros Archipelago first before going to Madagascar, meaning the SEA component is older in our country.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929717304640
The highest percentage for a Comorian would be 13-15 something percent with 7-10% on average. The only ones who would score more would be on the island of Mayotte, they have a very great history of trade with Madagascar and their culture is very much implanted there, more than in the other islands. A great part of their population speak Shibushi which is a dialect of Malagasy. Same for South Asian, we've been greatly influenced by Indian culture just like the rest of the Swahili Coast, they were great merchants and travelled all over East Africa so it isn't surprising or unusual, actually most of us do score it.

Very interesting.

Are there Comorians who virtually don't score any SE Asian? Do you know if ethnic Swahilis from Kenya, Tanzania (including Zanzibar) and probably Northern Mozambique also have SE Asian ancestry?

Off topic, can Comorians understand and also speak the Swahili language spoken in Kenya and Tanzania? Also I heard that the locals in Comoros have separate languages from Swahili?

swhl
02-23-2021, 05:39 PM
Very interesting.

Are there Comorians who virtually don't score any SE Asian? Do you know if ethnic Swahilis from Kenya, Tanzania (including Zanzibar) and probably Northern Mozambique also have SE Asian ancestry?

Off topic, can Comorians understand and also speak the Swahili language spoken in Kenya and Tanzania? Also I heard that the locals in Comoros have separate languages from Swahili?

I honestly don't think that's possible. All the Comorians who posted their results on the internet have minor SE Asian ancestry, all my Comorian matches also have it. I haven't seem a lot of results from Zanzibaris or coastal Kenyans (which really is a shame) but from what I know it's not as common as us. The ones who had interactions with Comorian merchants may have it, a lot of coastal Somalis have little SE Asian admixture due to that, I know a Benadiri who found Comorian ancestors and had little Austronesian DNA.

Shikomori and Swahili are closely related languages, a LOT of Comorian vocabulary is derived from swahili/pokomo/mijikenda and we share ancestral roots with them, we just decided to leave the coast and created our own distinct language on our islands. Some people say we basically had the same dialect as the Zanzibaris until the 12th century, there also are old manuscripts (18-19th century) saying that Zanzibaris and Comorians did not have any trouble understanding each other at one point. It's also interesting to point out that Swahili was one of our government's languages until as late as the 20th century, we slowly started to abandon it for French.
As a Comorian who speaks Shingazidja I understand and recognize lots of words when I hear swahili and I heard it's the same for them, we don't really have trouble communicating but the differences particularly grammatically are clear. I'd say both languages are cousins, same influences (arabic, persian, indian) and a lot of vocabulary in common which makes comprehension from both sides very easy.

Deftextra
02-24-2021, 12:05 PM
I honestly don't think that's possible. All the Comorians who posted their results on the internet have minor SE Asian ancestry, all my Comorian matches also have it. I haven't seem a lot of results from Zanzibaris or coastal Kenyans (which really is a shame) but from what I know it's not as common as us. The ones who had interactions with Comorian merchants may have it, a lot of coastal Somalis have little SE Asian admixture due to that, I know a Benadiri who found Comorian ancestors and had little Austronesian DNA.

Shikomori and Swahili are closely related languages, a LOT of Comorian vocabulary is derived from swahili/pokomo/mijikenda and we share ancestral roots with them, we just decided to leave the coast and created our own distinct language on our islands. Some people say we basically had the same dialect as the Zanzibaris until the 12th century, there also are old manuscripts (18-19th century) saying that Zanzibaris and Comorians did not have any trouble understanding each other at one point. It's also interesting to point out that Swahili was one of our government's languages until as late as the 20th century, we slowly started to abandon it for French.
As a Comorian who speaks Shingazidja I understand and recognize lots of words when I hear swahili and I heard it's the same for them, we don't really have trouble communicating but the differences particularly grammatically are clear. I'd say both languages are cousins, same influences (arabic, persian, indian) and a lot of vocabulary in common which makes comprehension from both sides very easy.

Yeah, small amounts of SE-Asian/E-Asian is very common among us, but because of our mixture, it's quite difficult to know from which ancestry this is mediated from. My guess is, it comes from a mixture of all our ancestries, and can vary from person to person and clan to clan.

Angoliga
02-24-2021, 04:31 PM
Interesting results from a half maternal Zagawah (Sudanese)/Oromo and paternal Kakwa (South-Sudanese) Ancestry match:

I'm guessing she's related from my maternal side since my mother's a Ugandan Kakwa

https://i.imgur.com/YtBJJUn.png

Had to ask in PM for the rest of her results, Ethiopia & Eritriea 25%, Somalia 5%, they were hidden when viewing shared results for some reason (a privacy feature?)

Aside from the direct Oromo-related ancestry, fractionally I'm guessing part of the "Ethiopia & Eritriea" is being rendered from Zagawah-related ancestry - as well as part of her "Senegal" affinity being somehow Sahelian derived for Zagawah.



Some other observations (*taken with a grain of salt of course):


As seen with other Nilotic matches on Ancestry (I believe this is the 3rd or 4th), there's a pattern of either moderate "Senegal" or "Mali" affinities, presumably sahelian for their deeper West-African affinity?


Oddly in this person's case, her Sudanese Zagawah-related ancestry appears to be rendered as "Senegal"? One would think the Mali affinity would be higher for her Zagawah-related ancestry since "Mali (https://imgur.com/v3LMLSM)" on Ancestry geographically encompasses neighboring Chad (where Zagawah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaghawa_people)are heavily found).


- this might be a marginal error on Ancestry's part; they've left out labeling Chad in their description for "Mali" despite it being geographically circled -- only the following nations are mentioned ("Burkina Faso, Guinea, Mali, Sierra Leone, Cote D'Ivoire")


Also peculiar, unlike results from other Nilotes, her Nilo-Saharan admixture from Zagawah-related ancestry isn't rendered as Khoisan, Aka & Mbuti Peoples (https://imgur.com/t73UPZZ) and Eastern Bantu Peoples (https://imgur.com/2U9TQHK), as was the case with nilotes from South-Sudan and Uganda (Dinka, Kakwa etc). I'm curious what sample groups were included in the database for these clusters.

Ajeje Brazorf
02-24-2021, 07:25 PM
I honestly don't think that's possible. All the Comorians who posted their results on the internet have minor SE Asian ancestry, all my Comorian matches also have it. I haven't seem a lot of results from Zanzibaris or coastal Kenyans (which really is a shame) but from what I know it's not as common as us. The ones who had interactions with Comorian merchants may have it, a lot of coastal Somalis have little SE Asian admixture due to that, I know a Benadiri who found Comorian ancestors and had little Austronesian DNA.

Shikomori and Swahili are closely related languages, a LOT of Comorian vocabulary is derived from swahili/pokomo/mijikenda and we share ancestral roots with them, we just decided to leave the coast and created our own distinct language on our islands. Some people say we basically had the same dialect as the Zanzibaris until the 12th century, there also are old manuscripts (18-19th century) saying that Zanzibaris and Comorians did not have any trouble understanding each other at one point. It's also interesting to point out that Swahili was one of our government's languages until as late as the 20th century, we slowly started to abandon it for French.
As a Comorian who speaks Shingazidja I understand and recognize lots of words when I hear swahili and I heard it's the same for them, we don't really have trouble communicating but the differences particularly grammatically are clear. I'd say both languages are cousins, same influences (arabic, persian, indian) and a lot of vocabulary in common which makes comprehension from both sides very easy.

Could you share your scaled Global25 coordinates? It'd be interesting to see the results of Comorians.

swhl
02-24-2021, 11:11 PM
Could you share your scaled Global25 coordinates? It'd be interesting to see the results of Comorians.

How do I do that?

Angoliga
02-25-2021, 01:48 AM
How do I do that?

Hi swhl, welcome to the forum!

If interested in getting your G25 cords, send your request and autosomal genotype data (from either AncestryDNA, FTDNA, LivingDNA, MyHeritage, 23andMe etc.) to [email protected] and send money via PayPal to the same e-mail address" (current price is $12 USD). More info on how to use G25 can be found from the creator, here (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html).

We also have an all Africa G25 PCA thread with members on the forum compared against modern and ancient samples, it would be great to have a first Comorian!

- no pressure though

mpatsibihugu89
02-26-2021, 10:03 PM
Erithrean Tigre paternal E-m293 & Kunama maternal L4b2a2a

43561

Erithrean Tigrinya paternal E-m293 & Tigray maternal K1a

43562

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-27-2021, 02:15 AM
Ethiopian ( 3/4 from the Ogaden region & 1/4 Harari )
43573

Bravanese?

https://youtu.be/6IUx-BhC-vs

Adam A
02-27-2021, 03:27 PM
A half Nigerian-American relative

https://i.gyazo.com/012531fe6283844036907811cf4aa436.png

NetNomad
02-27-2021, 08:33 PM
Erithrean Tigre paternal E-m293 & Kunama maternal L4b2a2a

43561

Hmm, I expected Kunamas to be more mixed with Habeshas, but it looks like they are autosomally closer to Sudanese populations (either North or South)?


Ethiopian ( 3/4 from the Ogaden region & 1/4 Harari )
43573

Looks like he is part Malagasy or Comorian. Harar region has some exotic trace ancestry. The green South Asian cluster also shows up there occasionally.

swhl
03-03-2021, 05:36 PM
Hi swhl, welcome to the forum!

If interested in getting your G25 cords, send your request and autosomal genotype data (from either AncestryDNA, FTDNA, LivingDNA, MyHeritage, 23andMe etc.) to [email protected] and send money via PayPal to the same e-mail address" (current price is $12 USD). More info on how to use G25 can be found from the creator, here (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html).

We also have an all Africa G25 PCA thread with members on the forum compared against modern and ancient samples, it would be great to have a first Comorian!

- no pressure though

Thanks for the info, i'll try to do that!

drobbah
03-08-2021, 01:10 AM
Somali Bantu results (23&me):
40.4% Angolan & Congolese
Southern Eastern African 31.4%
Broadly Congolese & Southern Eastern African 4.3%

14.6% Somali
3 2% Ethiopian&Eritrean
0.6% Sudanese
3.5% Broadly NE African

West African
0.9% Nigerian
0.9% Broadly SSA

Can Somalis from the South explain how this individual has such a large amount of Somali ancestry?

maroco
03-08-2021, 01:32 AM
43739
North African match with high Mali percentage

Deftextra
03-08-2021, 03:01 AM
Somali Bantu results (23&me):
40.4% Angolan & Congolese
Southern Eastern African 31.4%
Broadly Congolese & Southern Eastern African 4.3%

14.6% Somali
3 2% Ethiopian&Eritrean
0.6% Sudanese
3.5% Broadly NE African

West African
0.9% Nigerian
0.9% Broadly SSA

Can Somalis from the South explain how this individual has such a large amount of Somali ancestry?

I have not seen any Somali Bantu results, but had close family friends who were Bantu Somali. They look mostly 100% bantu, but sometimes you would come across individuals who look like they were at least Cushitic admixed. Not sure if this comes directly from Somalis, but I suspects it will come up to varying degrees.

I doubt this individuals Cushitic admixture came directly from Benadiris, since he does not score any south-Asian or middle-eastern percentage. Perhaps through other types of city folk communities?

drobbah
03-08-2021, 03:08 AM
I have not seen any Somali Bantu results, but had close family friends who were Bantu Somali. They look mostly 100% bantu, but sometimes you would come across individuals who look like they were at least Cushitic admixed. Not sure if this comes directly from Somalis, but I suspects it will come up to varying degrees.

I doubt this individuals Cushitic admixture came directly from Benadiris, since he does not score any south-Asian or middle-eastern percentage. Perhaps through other types of city folk communities?
Most Somali Bantus from the little I know live deep in the interior in interrivine areas.Clearly Somali or Af-Maay speakers are responsible for her ancestry.Some users here denied any genetic interactions between the two groups and claimed a strict form of xenophobia was a social barrier.Clearly they admixed with Somalis although I doubt with the powerful more nasab (noble) clans

JFWinstone
03-08-2021, 10:55 AM
KA - A New Malagasy Match to my mum

Southeast Asia 33%
Northern Philippines 24%
Southern Bantu People 17%
Southern Philippines 12%
Eastern Bantu Peoples 8%
Cameroon, Congo & Western Bantu Peoples 4%

capsian
03-09-2021, 08:49 AM
this my result in My heritage and ftdna4375843759

capsian
03-09-2021, 08:54 AM
Target: capsianscaled
Distance: 1.9461% / 0.01946090
48.0 TUR_Barcin_N
22.8 Ancestral_N_African
10.6 Baltic_LTU_Narva
5.0 Caspian
4.0 ITA_Villabruna
2.8 Basal_West_African
2.0 Ancient_Arabian
2.0 Basal_East_African
0.8 Basal_Central-East_African
0.8 Basal_South_African
0.8 Malaysia_LN_2550BP
0.4 Papuan

drobbah
03-12-2021, 07:19 AM
Somali Bantu results, she's around 40% Horner.


https://youtu.be/8eme2p4BO84

mpatsibihugu89
03-12-2021, 02:32 PM
Somali Bantu results, she's around 40% Horner.


https://youtu.be/8eme2p4BO84

Yet she is only 35% bantu (same amount I have). 50% horner components +6% BNEA with very low sudanese. On G25% she would probably score 55 to 60% modern Somali. Does she represent a good average for Somali bantus?

drobbah
03-12-2021, 03:07 PM
Yet she is only 35% bantu (same amount I have). 50% horner components +6% BNEA with very low sudanese. On G25% she would probably score 55 to 60% modern Somali. Does she represent a good average for Somali bantus?
I don't know much about them tbh.They live in Somalia so users from there would probably know more about this minority group then me.This result and the other result I posted are the only two Bantu minority results I have seen.

From the discussions I have had with southerners, they usually deny any intermarriage occured with the Bantu but clearly based on these two results posted there was heavy intermixing going on.

NetNomad
03-12-2021, 06:02 PM
Yet she is only 35% bantu (same amount I have). 50% horner components +6% BNEA with very low sudanese. On G25% she would probably score 55 to 60% modern Somali. Does she represent a good average for Somali bantus?

The second one is either part Bravanese (a more Asian leaning Swahili minority) or possibly a full Bajuni (a more typical Swahili group). I doubt she is a standard Somali Bantu. The earlier result is probably more normative.


From the discussions I have had with southerners, they usually deny any intermarriage occured with the Bantu but clearly based on these two results posted there was heavy intermixing going on.

Most Somalis who say that mixing is uncommon mean that geneflow from Somali Bantus into ethnic Somali communities is uncommon, not the inverse. The vast majority of Southern ethnic Somalis I have seen on 23andMe score either zero or sub 1% Bantu components.

Moreover, as an analogy: African Americans have high European admixture, yet European American Southerners have low African admixture or you can use Romanis vs native Balkan people as another example. Admixture can flow primarily in one direction between two populations.

drobbah
03-12-2021, 07:40 PM
We haven't seen enough Raxanweyn or Hawiye results from all their subclans to come to that conclusion.There was even one Raxanweyn who literally had E-M2 as his haplogroup yet was autosomally Horner.I think the vast majority of these Bantu admixed southern "Somalis" from Somalia are actually Af-Maay speakers.

Deftextra
03-12-2021, 09:24 PM
The second one is either part Bravanese (a more Asian leaning Swahili minority) or possibly a full Bajuni (a more typical Swahili group). I doubt she is a standard Somali Bantu. The earlier result is probably more normative.

Most Somalis who say that mixing is uncommon mean that geneflow from Somali Bantus into ethnic Somali communities is uncommon, not the inverse. The vast majority of Southern ethnic Somalis I have seen on 23andMe score either zero or sub 1% Bantu components.

Moreover, as an analogy: African Americans have high European admixture, yet European American Southerners have low African admixture or you can use Romanis vs native Balkan people as another example. Admixture can flow primarily in one direction between two populations.

Banjuni results I have seen usually have much higher south-Asian/Arabian admixture on the same level has Bravenese and Benadiris, but usually have zero or minor Cushitic admixture. I think most of them were from Kenya though.

If she had Bravenese admixture it was likely from a grandparent or great grant parent judging from her results.

radioavdelning
03-12-2021, 11:26 PM
We haven't seen enough Raxanweyn or Hawiye results from all their subclans to come to that conclusion.
Earlier:

but clearly based on these two results posted there was heavy intermixing going on

why do you think that NetNomad's data set of hundreds of Southern ethnic Somalis on 23and is not enough to reach a conclusion but just two results is?


The second one is either part Bravanese (a more Asian leaning Swahili minority) or possibly a full Bajuni (a more typical Swahili group). I doubt she is a standard Somali Bantu. The earlier result is probably more normative.



Most Somalis who say that mixing is uncommon mean that geneflow from Somali Bantus into ethnic Somali communities is uncommon, not the inverse. The vast majority of Southern ethnic Somalis I have seen on 23andMe score either zero or sub 1% Bantu components.

Moreover, as an analogy: African Americans have high European admixture, yet European American Southerners have low African admixture or you can use Romanis vs native Balkan people as another example. Admixture can flow primarily in one direction between two populations.


This analogy is pretty much spot on.

drobbah
03-13-2021, 01:02 AM
Earlier:


why do you think that NetNomad's data set of hundreds of Southern ethnic Somalis on 23and is not enough to reach a conclusion but just two results is?




This analogy is pretty much spot on.
There are probably certain sections of the Hawiye Somali and a large portion of the Raxanweyn Af-Maay Maay people who admixed with the Bantus.I don't understand why this is a sensitive topic for certain reer konfureed.There's already been one Raxanweyn who was autosomally Horner with a Bantu paternal lineage and you want to tell me no mixing occured? Clearly we need more Raxanweyn samples to see how much mixing occured between the Maay people and the Bantus.

radioavdelning
03-13-2021, 01:43 AM
There are probably certain sections of the Hawiye Somali and a large portion of the Raxanweyn Af-Maay Maay people who admixed with the Bantus.I don't understand why this is a sensitive topic for certain reer konfureed.There's already been one Raxanweyn who was autosomally Horner with a Bantu paternal lineage and you want to tell me no mixing occured? Clearly we need more Raxanweyn samples to see how much mixing occured between the Maay people and the Bantus.


why do you think that NetNomad's data set of hundreds of Southern ethnic Somalis on 23and is not enough to reach a conclusion but just two results is?


can you answer my question before moving goalposts?

nobody said that no mixing ever occurred, that's obviously statistically impossible and a disingenuous argument.

Typic
03-13-2021, 03:20 AM
can you answer my question before moving goalposts?

nobody said that no mixing ever occurred, that's obviously statistically impossible and a disingenuous argument.

There could be biases in the pool of Southern Somali samples on 23andMe. People who do these ancestry tests are not locals in southern Somalia but diaspora, meaning this might not be random, i.e, show biases in samples, overrepresent certain sections of the total, and underrepresenting others by way of unequal sampling probability wherever these people live outside Somalia. Don't you think we need to at least consider this potential oversight before making conclusions?

drobbah
03-13-2021, 03:33 AM
can you answer my question before moving goalposts?

nobody said that no mixing ever occurred, that's obviously statistically impossible and a disingenuous argument.
There's no question to answer.How do I know NetNomad's list is representative? How many Raxanweyn or Somali matches that hail from clans that live with the Bantus does he have in the list?

Which is why I want to see more samples from the Maay people and Somalis that live with Bantus like sections of the Hawiye,biyoomaal etc.The dna testing so far is dominated as of this moment by Northern descended Daroods,Northern Dirs and Isaaqs.Before getting G25 coordinates how many of us would have known the genetic diversity within Northern Somalis (DJB,SL,PL & Ethiopia)?

radioavdelning
03-13-2021, 04:00 AM
There could be biases in the pool of Southern Somali samples on 23andMe. People who do these ancestry tests are not locals in southern Somalia but diaspora, meaning this might not be random, i.e, show biases in samples, overrepresent certain sections of the total, and underrepresenting others by way of unequal sampling probability wherever these people live outside Somalia. Don't you think we need to at least consider this potential oversight before making conclusions?

That's my point without empirical data nobody should be making claims like southerners are "heavily mixed" with bantus based on a sample size of 2, while dismissing 23andme which is infinitely a better data source than the former.

drobbah
03-13-2021, 04:05 AM
Nobody said southerners are heavily admixed.This is why discussing Bantus in Somalia with southerners is tricky.It's a very sensitive topic for many for all the wrong reasons

radioavdelning
03-13-2021, 04:18 AM
For sure it's a sensitive topic but I think you're kinda projecting when you label those reasons as "wrong". For me it's as simply as sticking to the truth, doesn't matter which population we're talking about Bantu or Chinese...I'm gonna call out spreading misinformation.

drobbah
03-13-2021, 04:51 AM
For sure it's a sensitive topic but I think you're kinda projecting when you label those reasons as "wrong". For me it's as simply as sticking to the truth, doesn't matter which population we're talking about Bantu or Chinese...I'm gonna call out spreading misinformation.
How is saying that we need more Raxanweyn and Somalis from areas where Bantus heavily settle considered misinformation? Or saying that it's possible many sections of the Raxanweyn are Bantu admixed or specific somali clans is misinformation? There is a clear terrible reason this irks southerners.You are entitled to believe that I'm spreading misinformation purposely about Bantu-Maay/Somali interactions but there's no need to attack my personal character brother

Axios
03-16-2021, 09:01 PM
FTDNA

https://i.ibb.co/4dQQ28G/ftdna.jpg

MyHeritage

https://i.ibb.co/TYfghq1/uyu.jpg

Hurricane
03-17-2021, 06:12 PM
FTDNA

https://i.ibb.co/4dQQ28G/ftdna.jpg

MyHeritage

https://i.ibb.co/TYfghq1/uyu.jpg

Where does the North European comes from? Is it related to the Barbary slave trade?

I was watching this video just yesterday


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPYC8TC8BM

Axios
03-17-2021, 06:26 PM
Where does the North European comes from? Is it related to the Barbary slave trade?

I was watching this video just yesterday


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPYC8TC8BM

I have no idea, people suggested it could be vandals (i dont think so), a recent european relative, slavery trade, pirates, some weird ashkenazi relative or just that i inherited more common componentes that some berbers share with europeans.

Aben Aboo
03-17-2021, 06:58 PM
As Salāmu'Alaykum, hello, could be from slavery, "renégats" or some colonial European ancestor(but this last case is not common)

Hurricane
03-17-2021, 10:11 PM
I have no idea, people suggested it could be vandals (i dont think so), a recent european relative, slavery trade, pirates, some weird ashkenazi relative or just that i inherited more common componentes that some berbers share with europeans.

Vandals? Unless you were ressurected from the Middle Ages, yes. :confused: The admixture is definitely more recent.

This is not a normal occurence because most North Africans dont score North European on commercial tests.

Axios
03-17-2021, 10:43 PM
Vandals? Unless you were ressurected from the Middle Ages, yes. :confused: The admixture is definitely more recent.

This is not a normal occurence because most North Africans dont score North European on commercial tests.

It could be some great great grandfather

Aben Aboo
03-17-2021, 11:15 PM
It could be some great great grandfather

yeah, i think if it's mixed case, probably from a great grandparent or a great great grandparent

ThaYamamoto
03-18-2021, 12:32 AM
I have no idea, people suggested it could be vandals (i dont think so), a recent european relative, slavery trade, pirates, some weird ashkenazi relative or just that i inherited more common componentes that some berbers share with europeans.

If not a colonial era ancestor then Barbary slave trade makes sense. What's your maternal haplogroup, U6?

Axios
03-18-2021, 12:39 AM
If not a colonial era ancestor then Barbary slave trade makes sense. What's your maternal haplogroup, U6?

I dont have my maternal haplogroup

ThaYamamoto
03-18-2021, 01:48 AM
I dont have my maternal haplogroup

that's something you should get looked at then.

Axios
03-18-2021, 02:09 AM
that's something you should get looked at then.

is there any predictor similar to morley for maternal haplo?

ThaYamamoto
03-18-2021, 05:07 AM
is there any predictor similar to morley for maternal haplo?

Yeah, here: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

You might need to convert your raw file into the right format depending on where you got tested.

Axios
03-18-2021, 03:24 PM
Yeah, here: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

You might need to convert your raw file into the right format depending on where you got tested.

Seems like it doesnt work for MyHeritage raw data

ThaYamamoto
03-18-2021, 11:42 PM
Afram or Afro-Carrib 23andme match - seem to get a lot more Caribbeans recently which is surprising but haven't confirmed yet with this gentleman but close to ~90% tropical African + my last few matches being Caribbean hints at this.

Mtdna: L3f1b4
Y: E-CTS736
43913

capsian
03-20-2021, 01:08 AM
FTDNA

https://i.ibb.co/4dQQ28G/ftdna.jpg

MyHeritage

https://i.ibb.co/TYfghq1/uyu.jpg

what this your H.g

Axios
03-20-2021, 03:46 AM
what this your H.g

Probably e-m81 i cant remember exactly

Axios
03-20-2021, 03:49 AM
what this your H.g

E1b
E-CTS1545 (E-CTS119, E-CTS1446)

ThaYamamoto
03-23-2021, 01:54 AM
Rarely get any new matches on Ancestry anymore - this one has shocked me. She is originally Christian from Adamawa State, Nigeria Didn't respond to any further questions :lol: Can't wait for my uncles result to come through. Apparently there are some Jarawan speakers in Adamawa, a Bantu language according to Blench. A bunch of other very interesting languages there too. The high Cameroonian doesn't surprise me that much, bordering Cameroon and all. I guess there are no north-easterners in the reference pops.

4397443975

If you wanna see the uncropped results pm me.

mpatsibihugu89
03-26-2021, 04:56 PM
My buddy from South Carolina, near Charleston, AncestryDNA results show 0% European ancestry. No recent ancestry from Africa or the Carribbeans to his knowledge. Both parents families have been in South Carolina for many many years. Here is a screenshot below.

44026

ThaYamamoto
03-26-2021, 07:07 PM
My buddy from South Carolina, near Charleston, AncestryDNA results show 0% European ancestry. No recent ancestry from Africa or the Carribbeans to his knowledge. Both parents families have been in South Carolina for many many years. Here is a screenshot below.

44026

Wow I thought that's practically unheard of. Crazy.

altvred
03-26-2021, 07:17 PM
Wow I thought that's practically unheard of. Crazy.

Definitely unusual but it doesn't surprise me that out of all the states, an African American from SC shows the most African ancestry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah).

ThaYamamoto
03-26-2021, 07:45 PM
Definitely unusual but it doesn't surprise me that out of all the states, an African American from SC shows the most African ancestry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullah).

That's true but I've seen other Gullah/Geechee results and they had Euro ancestry as usual.

ThaYamamoto
03-27-2021, 01:55 AM
My cousins Ancestry results came through! This is one of my maternal uncle's daughters. I'm still waiting on his brother's 23andme test. Her moms is local mixed/mchotara too, but notice the 4% Nigeria that is very uncommon in eastern folks post-update, in fact I haven't seen it any any of my east or southern matches since. I had 2% prior.

44034

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
03-30-2021, 05:23 AM
A Hadhrami Yemeni from Mombasa

44071

Western Asian & North African 98.3%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 98.0%
Peninsular Arab 78.7%
Egyptian 9.6%
Coptic Egyptian 4.1%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 5.5%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 0.3%

Sub-Saharan African 1.0%
Congolese & Southern East African 0.7%
Southern East African 0.7%

drobbah
03-30-2021, 05:34 AM
A Hadhrami Yemeni from Mombasa

44071

Western Asian & North African 98.3%
Peninsular Arab 78.7%
Egyptian 9.6%
Coptic Egyptian 4.1%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 5.5%

Sub-Saharan African 1.0%
Congolese & Southern East African 0.7%
Southern East African 0.7%
Haplogroups?

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
03-30-2021, 05:58 AM
Haplogroups?

He didn't post his haplogroups unfortunately

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
03-30-2021, 09:15 AM
I ran some Mijikenda samples against the 23andme G25 model they all score minor Middle Eastern, South East Asian, Indian & Western Asian. From what sources say they migrated to the coast from the Tana river area (mythical Shungwaya) in the 17th century. I didn't know they had any trade history with the Arabs, Persians, etc that's a new find. The Swahili, Mijikenda & Pokomo are all very related similar results should be expected.

Target: Kenya_GIRIAMA:per57
Distance: 1.4839% / 0.01483916
52.4 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
41.0 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
2.2 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Mursi
1.2 Broadly_Melanesian:Papuan
1.0 North_African:Berber_Algeria
1.0 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka
0.8 Indonesian_Khmer_Thai_&_Myanma:Indonesian_Java
0.4 Iranian_Caucasian_&_Mesopotamian:Turkish_Trabzon

Spanish Andalucia??
Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per6
Distance: 1.7784% / 0.01778362
45.4 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
33.4 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
13.6 Nigerian:Igbo
2.0 Spanish_&_Portuguese:Spanish_Andalucia
1.8 Ghanaian_Liberian_&_Sierra_Leonean:Mende_Sierra_Leone
1.4 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Ari
1.2 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka
1.0 North_African:Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.2 Broadly_Melanesian:Papuan


Target: Kenya_GIRIAMA:per49
Distance: 2.1830% / 0.02183010
53.0 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
41.6 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
2.8 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Ari
1.0 Peninsular_Arab:Saudi
0.8 Japanese
0.6 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka
0.2 Nigerian:Igbo


Target: Kenya_GIRIAMA:per48
Distance: 2.2294% / 0.02229436
39.2 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
36.4 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
6.4 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Mursi
6.0 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Ari_blacksmith
4.8 Nigerian:Yoruba
4.2 Nigerian:Igbo
2.6 Peninsular_Arab:Saudi
0.4 Broadly_Melanesian:Papuan

Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per45
Distance: 2.0857% / 0.02085697
48.6 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
23.8 Nigerian:Igbo
22.8 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
3.2 Levantine:Lebanese_Druze
0.6 Gujarati_Patidar:Gujarati
0.6 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Mbuti
0.4 Chinese:Han_Zhejiang

Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per41
Distance: 1.4611% / 0.01461061
50.4 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
37.2 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
7.6 Ghanaian_Liberian_&_Sierra_Leonean:Mende_Sierra_Leone
2.0 Iranian_Caucasian_&_Mesopotamian:Iranian_Mazandarani
1.2 Chinese:Han_Guangdong
0.6 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka
0.4 Iranian_Caucasian_&_Mesopotamian:Armenian_Hemsheni
0.4 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Mbuti
0.2 Broadly_Melanesian:Papuan

Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per39
Distance: 2.0242% / 0.02024217
44.6 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
35.0 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
10.6 Ghanaian_Liberian_&_Sierra_Leonean:Mende_Sierra_Leone
2.6 Peninsular_Arab:Saudi
2.4 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Ari
1.4 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Mbuti
1.0 Vietnamese:Kinh_Vietnam
0.8 Iranian_Caucasian_&_Mesopotamian:Iranian_Mazandarani
0.8 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Ari_blacksmith
0.4 Iranian_Caucasian_&_Mesopotamian:Armenian_Hemsheni
0.4 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka

Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per34
Distance: 1.9338% / 0.01933805
53.6 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
35.6 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
5.0 Nigerian:Igbo
2.4 Peninsular_Arab:Saudi
1.6 Gujarati_Patidar:Gujarati
1.6 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Mbuti
0.2 Chinese_Dai:Dai

Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per31
Distance: 1.9138% / 0.01913828
47.4 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
28.6 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
15.2 Nigerian:Igbo
3.6 Ethiopian_&_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Gumuz
2.6 Peninsular_Arab:Saudi
1.0 North_African:Berber_MAR_TIZ
0.6 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Mbuti
0.4 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka
0.4 Broadly_Melanesian:Papuan
0.2 Chinese_Dai:Dai

Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per30
Distance: 1.8956% / 0.01895550
48.4 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
43.4 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
3.6 Ghanaian_Liberian_&_Sierra_Leonean:Mende_Sierra_Leone
1.4 Indonesian_Khmer_Thai_&_Myanma:Indonesian_Java
1.0 Peninsular_Arab:Saudi
1.0 North_African:Berber_Algeria
0.6 Native_American:Mayan
0.4 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka
0.2 North_African:Moroccan

Target: Kenya_CHONYI:per29
Distance: 1.7055% / 0.01705506
60.2 Southern_East_African:Bantu_Kenya
17.4 Angolan_&_Congolese:Kongo
16.8 Nigerian:Igbo
2.8 Iranian_Caucasian_&_Mesopotamian:Armenian_Hemsheni
1.8 African_Hunter-Gatherer:Biaka
0.8 Native_American:Mayan
0.2 Gujarati_Patidar:Gujarati

drobbah
03-31-2021, 10:00 PM
My mother surprisingly has three Maghrebi matches but only a single person was able to message back with info stating she was Libyan from Tripoli.I need help in pinpointing which Maghrebi countries these two matches results resemble the most as I also no clue why they are matching my mother. The only foreign ancestry my mother has is a distant Yemeni ancestor (her gg grandmother) and she has tons of Arab matches from the Peninsula & 1 from Palestine which makes sense genealogically, perhaps she matches with these North Africans because of some shared very distant medieval peninsular Arab ancestry or somehow a few Somalis made it to the Maghreb a very long time ago lol? Before AncestryDNA got rid of matches under 8cm she had a lot more Maghrebi matches that scored huge amounts of the North African component.

https://i.imgur.com/enjxuza.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fymjgS3.jpg

Targum
03-31-2021, 11:00 PM
Vandals? Unless you were ressurected from the Middle Ages, yes. :confused: The admixture is definitely more recent.

This is not a normal occurence because most North Africans dont score North European on commercial tests.

Don't let the geography of recent Ashkenazi Dispersion (last 800 years) mislead you, if that is the "North European" you are reacting to; we are mainly Levant+Greek/So Italy mestizos with relatively little E Europe admix. All Western Jews, AJ included, have measurable Berber/Amazigh in the mix as well. So AJ affinities fit in with MENA and Mediterranean generally.

Axios
04-01-2021, 10:56 AM
Don't let the geography of recent Ashkenazi Dispersion (last 800 years) mislead you, if that is the "North European" you are reacting to; we are mainly Levant+Greek/So Italy mestizos with relatively little E Europe admix. All Western Jews, AJ included, have measurable Berber/Amazigh in the mix as well. So AJ affinities fit in with MENA and Mediterranean generally.

It doesnt have anything to do with the ashkenazi jew MyHeritage shows, its actually north european from G25, i get an unusual Steppe for a Berber and weird northern euro admixture (shetland, koitag, siberian, north sea etc)

Axios
04-01-2021, 11:01 AM
Yeah, here: https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

You might need to convert your raw file into the right format depending on where you got tested.

Seems like FTDNA raw data works, my mtdna is H2a2a1

Deftextra
04-01-2021, 02:25 PM
Seems like FTDNA raw data works, my mtdna is H2a2a1

I am pretty sure that is the default one that will show up if the raw data does not have enough snps.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20878-How-accurate-is-Jamesclick-Mt-haplogroup-perdictor

Axios
04-01-2021, 02:48 PM
I am pretty sure that is the default one that will show up if the raw data does not have enough snps.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20878-How-accurate-is-Jamesclick-Mt-haplogroup-perdictor

This mtdna is very common amongst moroccan berbers (up to 40-46%) so it may be accurate in my case, but yeah idk if this predictor is reliable at all. I used FTDNA raw data.

Deftextra
04-01-2021, 03:16 PM
This mtdna is very common amongst moroccan berbers (up to 40-46%) so it may be accurate in my case, but yeah idk if this predictor is reliable at all. I used FTDNA raw data.

If you didn't get any warning messages, then yeah, its probably accurate.

Axios
04-01-2021, 03:21 PM
If you didn't get any warning messages, then yeah, its probably accurate.

I did get warnings:

https://i.ibb.co/9Y6V0mX/mtdna.jpg

I'll just get a 23andme kit to make sure.

Deftextra
04-01-2021, 04:22 PM
Latest match on FTDNA:

He is Shekaale from Baraawe paternally, but looks like his paternal side is originally from Mogadishu (xamar).

Paternal haplogroup: G-FGC595


44104
44105
44108

drobbah
04-01-2021, 04:41 PM
Latest match on FTDNA:

He is Shekaale from Baraawe paternally, but looks like his paternal side is originally from Mogadishu (xamar).

Paternal haplogroup: G-FGC595


44104
44105

No South Asian whatsoever.Is that normal for coastal Sheikhaal?

Mnemonics
04-01-2021, 04:45 PM
I did get warnings:

https://i.ibb.co/9Y6V0mX/mtdna.jpg

I'll just get a 23andme kit to make sure.

There are no markers analyzed you are getting the reference mtdna

Deftextra
04-01-2021, 04:48 PM
No South Asian whatsoever.Is that normal for coastal Sheikhaal?

His south Asian percentage fits the continuum for coastal benadiris, but is a bit on the low side:

44107

drobbah
04-02-2021, 11:09 PM
Got my ftdna results and it seems more accurate than 23&me tbh.It accurately gave me 6% Yemeni when most Somalis get 100% Somali.My mother's results will be available tomorrow or the day after and if she gets double the Yemeni than this just further confirms my maternal's family story which has been in Aden for a couple generations, as my mother has a bunch of 100% Middle East Yemeni/Saudi matches on AncestryDNA (ranging from 8-11cm).I wish they separated the Somali component from the Habeshas though.

https://i.imgur.com/QighaO1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ocfBE9t.jpg

Deftextra
04-03-2021, 12:37 AM
Got my ftdna results and it seems more accurate than 23&me tbh.It accurately gave me 6% Yemeni when most Somalis get 100% Somali.My mother's results will be available tomorrow or the day after and if she gets double the Yemeni than this just further confirms my maternal's family story which has been in Aden for a couple generations, as my mother has a bunch of 100% Middle East Yemeni/Saudi matches on AncestryDNA (ranging from 8-11cm).I wish they separated the Somali component from the Habeshas though.

https://i.imgur.com/QighaO1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ocfBE9t.jpg

From the results I have seen, FTDNA can be pretty accurate when separating Arabian and horn-African regional ancestries, which most companies are terrible at.

drobbah
04-03-2021, 12:54 AM
From the results I have seen, FTDNA can be pretty accurate when separating Arabian and horn-African regional ancestries, which most companies are terrible at.
The fact that they pinpointed it to Yemen & not the other Arabian Peninsula component is another great example of it's accuracy.My great great grandmother was a Yemeni from Al Hodeyda so based on genealogy, I am supposed to be around 6% Yemeni.Kudos to ftdna for doing a great job

On G25 I could only replicate such results by using Somalis that are similar to my maternal grandmother (less Eurasian on average & more mota) and excluding Somalis samples that seem Arabian admixed themselves.

Tomenable
04-03-2021, 01:03 PM
Have you perhaps seen any DNA results from the following countries?:

Guinea-Bissau
Eswatini
Mayotte
Sao Tome and Principe
Seychelles

drobbah
04-04-2021, 02:30 AM
Mother's ftdna results
44140
https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44132&d=1617465835

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
04-04-2021, 02:30 PM
Mother's ftdna results
44140
https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44132&d=1617465835

Your Yemeni appears to be real, on 23andMe did you score any Peninsular Arab? I've also noticed that with 23andmes updates they randomly remove authentic ethnicities above noise level and assign weird ones that are noise

drobbah
04-04-2021, 02:42 PM
Your Yemeni appears to be real on 23andMe did you score any Peninsular Arab? I've also noticed that with 23andmes updates they randomly remove authentic ethnicities above noise level and assign weird ones that are noise
23&me gave me 100% Somali and ancestrydna gave my mother 95% Somali & 5% Ethio/Eritrean (Habesha).As Defextera said, ftdna might be the best company when it comes to differentiating Horner & Arabian ancestry.

drobbah
04-05-2021, 01:05 AM
Your Yemeni appears to be real, on 23andMe did you score any Peninsular Arab? I've also noticed that with 23andmes updates they randomly remove authentic ethnicities above noise level and assign weird ones that are noise
There's a very close clan relative of mine (Sacad Muuse) that I have both on 23&me and ftdna.He gets 98% Somali with noise level Italian & Habesha but on ftdna he gets 8% Egyptian and the rest Horner (presumably Somali).I think 23&me is extremely accurate at getting one's predominant recent ancestry but it certainly difficult for them to accurately get minor ancestry.

They have some work to do when it comes to African components as well.For the Horn + Sudan they obviously need to split the Sudanese component between North (maybe base it on Nubians) and South Sudanese.They should also add a Borana/Wolayta Southern Ethiopian component and remove the Kenyan Somali sample from their reference so it can help Oromo admixed Somalis and Somali admixed Oromos & Hararis.They should also recreate the Ethio/Eritrean component into a Northern Horn component exclusively with Tigray & Eritrean samples and remove the Amharas who are very heterogenous.

My father's ftdna results
44151

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
04-05-2021, 01:40 PM
There's a very close clan relative of mine (Sacad Muuse) that I have both on 23&me and ftdna.He gets 98% Somali with noise level Italian & Habesha but on ftdna he gets 8% Egyptian and the rest Horner (presumably Somali).I think 23&me is extremely accurate at getting one's predominant recent ancestry but it certainly difficult for them to accurately get minor ancestry.

They have some work to do when it comes to African components as well.For the Horn + Sudan they obviously need to split the Sudanese component between North (maybe base it on Nubians) and South Sudanese.They should also add a Borana/Wolayta Southern Ethiopian component and remove the Kenyan Somali sample from their reference so it can help Oromo admixed Somalis and Somali admixed Oromos & Hararis.They should also recreate the Ethio/Eritrean component into a Northern Horn component exclusively with Tigray & Eritrean samples and remove the Amharas who are very heterogenous.

My father's ftdna results
44151

Let's hope that they will broaden the African components, especially the East African components in the next update if not then any time soon. I like your idea on how 23andMe can improve by splitting the Sudanese category into North Sudan & South Sudan also Ethiopian --> South Ethiopian --> Borana, Wolayta it sounds more interesting than what 23andme currently has. I think they should also expand on the Southern East African category and maybe add Western Kenya --> Luhya, Kenyan Nilotic tribes ---> Masai & Luo, Central Kenya ---> Kikuyu, Coastal Kenya --> Mijikenda. It will be better than the way they combine Southern East African + Angolan & Congolese for coastal folks for example.

mpatsibihugu89
04-05-2021, 03:59 PM
Mother's ftdna results
44140
https://anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44132&d=1617465835

Is this from raw data upload or you bought a kit w/ ftdna? I have been wondering if buying a kit gets you more accurate results.

44160

Mine is an upload. Not sure what to think.

drobbah
04-05-2021, 04:34 PM
Is this from raw data upload or you bought a kit w/ ftdna? I have been wondering if buying a kit gets you more accurate results.

44160

Mine is an upload. Not sure what to think.
All three were uploads but both my parents had Ancestry kits that I converted into 23&me format.How accurate are the results for you? Are you usually ~30% Horner?

mpatsibihugu89
04-05-2021, 04:59 PM
All three were uploads but both my parents had Ancestry kits that I converted into 23&me format.How accurate are the results for you? Are you usually ~30% Horner?

Well i think that might be on the lower side. 23andme gives 34% + 9%BNEA. Imo Broadly is high because they dont have any S.cushites in their database.

44161

drobbah
04-05-2021, 05:34 PM
Well i think that might be on the lower side. 23andme gives 34% + 9%BNEA. Imo Broadly is high because they dont have any S.cushites in their database.

44161
Maybe ftdna used some cushitic admixed populations in their Lake Victoria Basin components which is hiding some of your cushitic admixture

mpatsibihugu89
04-05-2021, 07:26 PM
Maybe ftdna used some cushitic admixed populations in their Lake Victoria Basin components which is hiding some of your cushitic admixture

Ya that seems to be the case. They mentioned SW UG and Rwanda in the description. I also find strange that i don't show any Nile Basin or any nilotic. Traces of Bedouin and Maghreb are interesting.

Deftextra
04-06-2021, 10:48 PM
My uncles 23andMe result. He has a recent Indian ancestry from a great, great.. grandmother. He is not sure exactly where on his line. It looks like this is true, since 23andMe was able to assign a region for him.


44182
44183


What surprised me was his timeline. How accurate are these timelines on 23andMe?

Tomenable
04-06-2021, 10:56 PM
Any Mauritanian results perhaps?

drobbah
04-06-2021, 11:06 PM
Any Mauritanian results perhaps?
I think there was one on Angoliga's African G25 thread

Wangari
04-07-2021, 12:08 AM
Ya that seems to be the case. They mentioned SW UG and Rwanda in the description. I also find strange that i don't show any Nile Basin or any nilotic. Traces of Bedouin and Maghreb are interesting.

What would the Bedouin and Maghreb be indicative of? Do all NEA and Great lakes groups have this?

My results also show minor Maghrebi ancestry. It would be interesting to see and compare the results of other Great Lakes/Rift Valley ethnicities.

44184

drobbah
04-07-2021, 12:35 AM
Maybe the minor Maghrebi & Egypt represents your increased Anatolian affinity that doesn't exist in the Horn.Both those populations despite being different both share heavy amounts of Neolithic Barcin ancestry.

capsian
04-07-2021, 12:43 PM
44188

mpatsibihugu89
04-07-2021, 05:45 PM
What would the Bedouin and Maghreb be indicative of? Do all NEA and Great lakes groups have this?

My results also show minor Maghrebi ancestry. It would be interesting to see and compare the results of other Great Lakes/Rift Valley ethnicities.

44184

I don't know. Among my relatives on ftdna some GL tutsi/hutu and one Kenyan, it's hit or miss. I don't see any pattern other Western Lake Victoria reference might have some Nilote and S.cushite ancestry. I wonder if this Bedouin/Maghrebi/Egyptian affinity shows as 'Sudanese' on 23andme for the North Sudan reference? Coz North Sudanese and S. Sudanese all are included in that reference group. It works well for both from my observations on reddit and elsewhere.

drobbah
04-07-2021, 05:59 PM
I'm assuming the Bedouin in this category is the BedouinA (Levantine Bedouin) which again also carry significant Barcin ancestry like the Egyptians & Maghrebis.Arabians have two components Arabian Peninsula (BedouinB/Saudi) and Yemenite Jewish.

mpatsibihugu89
04-07-2021, 06:08 PM
Your Yemeni appears to be real, on 23andMe did you score any Peninsular Arab? I've also noticed that with 23andmes updates they randomly remove authentic ethnicities above noise level and assign weird ones that are noise

@Swahili_prince16 knows this. We have come accross many ethiopian/erithreans and Somali with yemeni ancestors. And it tends to be accurate the majority of the time. I will add that the previous update '19 did better at showing the actual % due to less smoothing from what I understand. Still the '20 is better than most in showing other minor ethnicities/ancestry imo. I invite @drobbah to check out Reddit '23andme' page if you haven't already. Many africans post there.

drobbah
04-07-2021, 07:05 PM
@Swahili_prince16 knows this. We have come accross many ethiopian/erithreans and Somali with yemeni ancestors. And it tends to be accurate the majority of the time. I will add that the previous update '19 did better at showing the actual % due to less smoothing from what I understand. Still the '20 is better than most in showing other minor ethnicities/ancestry imo. I invite @drobbah to check out Reddit '23andme' page if you haven't already. Many africans post there.
For me and my family, ftdna is much better.As my kind of Somali ancestry is different than the other Somalis (less Eurasian and more Mota).23&me is good for certain people but if it wasn't for familytreedna,G25 or qpadm.I would have never known my father and I carry substantial amounts of Borana-like Ethio admixture nor would I think my mother's Arab ancestry was real despite the many MENA matches especially the Arabians.I think 23&me is accurate but just not in my specific case

mpatsibihugu89
04-07-2021, 09:19 PM
For me and my family, ftdna is much better.As my kind of Somali ancestry is different than the other Somalis (less Eurasian and more Mota).23&me is good for certain people but if it wasn't for familytreedna,G25 or qpadm.I would have never known my father and I carry substantial amounts of Borana-like Ethio admixture nor would I think my mother's Arab ancestry was real despite the many MENA matches especially the Arabians.I think 23&me is accurate but just not in my specific case

What about your pca position, are you plotting near other Somalis? I would expect your mother to be extra eurasian shifted with that 11% peninsular arab.

drobbah
04-07-2021, 11:24 PM
What about your pca position, are you plotting near other Somalis? I would expect your mother to be extra eurasian shifted with that 11% peninsular arab.
I plot away from the main bunch of Somalis since I'm less Eurasian (and more Mota) and my father is less Eurasian than me and plots near me while my mother plots with the Somali G25 samples that are Arabian admixed, my parents are first cousins so it's easy to pinpoint where the foreign admixture comes from.

My Southern Ethiopian ancestry is from my paternal grandmother (she was probably 40-50% Borana-like) and from what my father just told me last week, she has some family in Sidamo region including a sister who was married there and had children, but is not sure if she has any blood from there.As far as he knows she's pure Somali. My maternal grandmother (sister of my paternal grandfather) is probably like me with similar or little less Mota.

The Arab ancestry is from my maternal grandfather who was probably around a quarter Yemeni from his grandmother from the Tihamah region which is a very African admixed part of Yemen.He had no full siblings or half siblings that had the same mother as him and he had passed away when I was a teen, so there's no one else I can test to further confirm same goes for my paternal grandmother.My paternal grandfather side lived in the non-Somali parts of Ethiopia for a long time (direct g granpa buried in Oromia capital south of Addis) and my maternal grandfather side lived in Yemen specifically Sheikh Othman village (now a neighbourhood) of Aden established by the British


You can see these people all have some form of African ancestry whether Horner or Bantu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1OwwxobOE

mpatsibihugu89
04-07-2021, 11:57 PM
[Deleted]

mpatsibihugu89
04-08-2021, 12:09 AM
I plot away from the main bunch of Somalis since I'm less Eurasian (and more Mota) and my father is less Eurasian than me and plots near me while my mother plots with the Somali G25 samples that are Arabian admixed, my parents are first cousins so it's easy to pinpoint where the foreign admixture comes from.

My Southern Ethiopian ancestry is from my paternal grandmother (she was probably 40-50% Borana-like) and from what my father just told me last week, she has some family in Sidamo region including a sister who was married there and had children, but is not sure if she has any blood from there.As far as he knows she's pure Somali. My maternal grandmother (sister of my paternal grandfather) is probably like me with similar or little less Mota.

The Arab ancestry is from my maternal grandfather who was probably around a quarter Yemeni from his grandmother from the Tihamah region which is a very African admixed part of Yemen.He had no full siblings or half siblings that had the same mother as him and he had passed away when I was a teen, so there's no one else I can test to further confirm same goes for my paternal grandmother.My paternal grandfather side lived in the non-Somali parts of Ethiopia for a long time (direct g granpa buried in Oromia capital south of Addis) and my maternal grandfather side lived in Yemen specifically Sheikh Othman village (now a neighbourhood) of Aden established by the British


You can see these people all have some form of African ancestry whether Horner or Bantu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1OwwxobOE

Ftdna's Southern Ethiopia doesn't work too well then for your family. Coz I don't think any of you have it according to ftdna. I happened to have 6%. Is that like an Ari_blacksmith type admixture or Something else?

drobbah
04-08-2021, 12:37 AM
Ftdna's Southern Ethiopia doesn't work too well then for your family. Coz I don't think any of you have it according to ftdna. I happened to have 6%. Is that like an Ari_blacksmith type admixture or Something else?
The regular Horner component on Ftdna probably has Oromos and Somali Kenyans as well which me and my father can be modelled on G25 quite well with.I have no clue what the Southern Ethiopian component is based on, maybe you're correct and it's those omotic Aris

Modelling myself and father with Somali (Somali15 & Somali2) & Somali_Kenya (minus those who cluster with Northern Somalis)


Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 1.5856% / 0.01585592
55.8 Somali_Kenya
44.2 Somali


Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 1.5590% / 0.01558958
58.8 Somali_Kenya
41.2 Somali


Using Borana-like Oromo samples & the same previous Somali samples

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 1.9438% / 0.01943761
77.6 Somali
22.4 Borana_Oromo

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 1.6951% / 0.01695106
71.2 Somali
28.8 Borana_Oromo



On g25 my father gets less Mota than me which explains the last result but on qpadm (thanks to Mnemonics) my father has 8.2% Mota and I have 4% which means my grandmother would have been around 15% Mota which is basically Oromo level Mota right there

drobbah
04-08-2021, 01:08 AM
Results of a Northern Egyptian from Ismailia:
https://i.imgur.com/monv6x3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/SrG6awR.jpg

drobbah
04-08-2021, 01:57 AM
An Egyptian match of mine from 23&me, he has other Somali matches as well.Perhaps he had a Somali ancestor who was a merchant,student at Al-Azhar or an Islamic scholar.

44202
44203

gihanga.rwanda
04-09-2021, 03:48 PM
An Egyptian match of mine from 23&me, he has other Somali matches as well.Perhaps he had a Somali ancestor who was a merchant,student at Al-Azhar or an Islamic scholar.

44202
44203

That definitely appears to be the case. I've seen several Egyptian 23andme results and their detectable SSA ancestry is almost always "Sudanese", which is to be expected.

drobbah
04-09-2021, 04:34 PM
That definitely appears to be the case. I've seen several Egyptian 23andme results and their detectable SSA ancestry is almost always "Sudanese", which is to be expected.
There are Somalis and other Horners who went to Cairo to study at Al-Azhar which was the greatest center of Islamic learning for centuries.It was kind of like the Harvard of it's era.There are many recorded Somali scholars who studied there like Fakhr al-Din al-Zayla'i,Abd al-Rahman al-Jabarti and many other scholars teaching fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence),ahaadith, nahwu (classical Arabic grammar).

Riwaq al Zayla'i was the college for Somali students in Al-Azhar, I have even read Somali scholars reaching as far as Damascus like Muhammad Ash-shams al Zayli'i.I wouldn’t be surprised if the Libyan E-Y18637 is a direct descendant of a Somali jurist.Somalis spread all over the Islamic world especially once kingdoms needed educated people in their administrations, if you were educated you could literally be employed in any part of the Islamic world.

mpatsibihugu89
04-10-2021, 02:15 AM
The regular Horner component on Ftdna probably has Oromos and Somali Kenyans as well which me and my father can be modelled on G25 quite well with.I have no clue what the Southern Ethiopian component is based on, maybe you're correct and it's those omotic Aris

Modelling myself and father with Somali (Somali15 & Somali2) & Somali_Kenya (minus those who cluster with Northern Somalis)


Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 1.5856% / 0.01585592
55.8 Somali_Kenya
44.2 Somali


Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 1.5590% / 0.01558958
58.8 Somali_Kenya
41.2 Somali


Using Borana-like Oromo samples & the same previous Somali samples

Target: Father_scaled
Distance: 1.9438% / 0.01943761
77.6 Somali
22.4 Borana_Oromo

Target: Drobbah_scaled
Distance: 1.6951% / 0.01695106
71.2 Somali
28.8 Borana_Oromo



On g25 my father gets less Mota than me which explains the last result but on qpadm (thanks to Mnemonics) my father has 8.2% Mota and I have 4% which means my grandmother would have been around 15% Mota which is basically Oromo level Mota right there

Half Somali(mother)/ half yemeni arab (father)

Somali and Peninsular arab clusters worked pretty good on this one.

44227

drobbah
04-10-2021, 02:32 AM
Half Somali(mother)/ half yemeni arab (father)

Somali and Peninsular arab clusters worked pretty good on this one.

44227
Good for them I guess....My Yemeni ancestry is from a distant great great grandmother and my Somali/Horner ancestry is probably very different from that individual as I explained earlier.I guess it works for regular Somalis

mpatsibihugu89
04-10-2021, 02:50 AM
Good for them I guess....My Yemeni ancestry is from a distant great great grandmother and my Somali/Horner ancestry is probably very different from that individual as I explained earlier.I guess it works for regular Somalis

Ya of course I know. Just sharing I thought you would be interested in those two mixed ancestry groups at work since it hits close to home for you.

All I know is that Somali ancestry seems very easy to isolate or detect for 23andme. Almost at the same level of accuracy as Ashkenazi_Jewish ancestry. Habesha/ethio may be not as easy as somali. Oromos I have seen get varying degrees of ethiopia% and %somali. Amhara & tigray , ethiopian jewish types people do very well on the Ethio reference.100% almost always. I see many on reddit.

drobbah
04-10-2021, 03:06 AM
Ya of course I know. Just sharing I thought you would be interested in those two mixed ancestry groups at work since it hits close to home for you.

All I know is that Somali ancestry seems very easy to isolate or detect for 23andme. Almost at the same level of accuracy as Ashkenazi_Jewish ancestry. Habesha/ethio may be not as easy as somali. Oromos I have seen get varying degrees of ethiopia% and %somali. Amhara & tigray , ethiopian jewish types people do very well on the Ethio reference.100% almost always. I see many on reddit.
I already know that it works well for those who have regular Somali ancestry.My irl 2nd paternal cousin who's 50% Somali (her father is my dad's first cousin) and her mother is half Yemeni/Northern Oromo.She gets 21% Arabian but doesn't get Yemen as a region tho

Ftdna seems to be the most accurate imo for pointing out distant Arabian ancestry unlike 23&me.Some other Somalis who have minor Arabian or Egyptian ancestry get better results on ftdna when they score almost 100% on 23&me with weird noise levels components like European or get 100% Somali.

Deftextra
04-10-2021, 03:07 AM
Half Somali(mother)/ half yemeni arab (father)

Somali and Peninsular arab clusters worked pretty good on this one.

44227

23andMe from what I have seen from the results in my community, if you have Arabian ancestry from a more distant source and/or one that comes from multiple recombination's, it usually gets mistaken as ethio-eritrean. But some of my cousins who are recently admixed and have one grand parent who was Yemeni for example, it usually can detect this quite easily.

ThaYamamoto
04-10-2021, 03:09 AM
A Hadhrami Yemeni from Mombasa

44071

Western Asian & North African 98.3%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 98.0%
Peninsular Arab 78.7%
Egyptian 9.6%
Coptic Egyptian 4.1%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 5.5%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 0.3%

Sub-Saharan African 1.0%
Congolese & Southern East African 0.7%
Southern East African 0.7%

Nimeshanga nilifikiri warabu watakuwa na asili zaidi za mwafrika...at least the same as me minimum.

drobbah
04-10-2021, 03:18 AM
23andMe from what I have seen from the results in my community, if you have Arabian ancestry from a more distant source and/or one that comes from multiple recombination's, it usually gets mistaken as ethio-eritrean. But some of my cousins who are recently admixed and have one grand parent who was Yemeni for example, it usually can detect this quite easily.
AncestryDNA does the same, my mother scores 5% Northern Horner Ethio/Eritrean when she doesn't have any ancestry from that region and has zero Mota ancestry.AncestryDNA does seem good when it comes to matching I only really suspected my father had Oromo ancestry when I started realizing that some of his Somali matches are in fact Oromos since they got similar muslim names as Somalis.

drobbah
04-10-2021, 03:28 AM
Uploaded my imputed kit which increases the amount of snps (from 60k 160k) on to ftdna.It seems more noisey and I get unreasonable latino/euro matches. I still get 5-6% Yemeni tho & the 22% Maghreb is probably just my Horner ancestry since imputation is essentially just educated guessing.The interesting part is the Victoria Basin Bantu component shows up but again it's probably just noise.

44228
44229

My original results from Family Finder:
https://i.imgur.com/QighaO1.jpg

drobbah
04-10-2021, 03:45 AM
I have Brazilian matches with predominately SSA ancestry who score Somali 1 in single population distance. Is not close distance though due to them having chunk of SW European ancestry, I would have to check but probably around 20 distance but still favors Somali before others.
Afro-Brazilians have nothing to do with Somalis

drobbah
04-10-2021, 04:06 AM
I don't know if your wrong, but probably you are is my educated opinion. Recombination happens, and it has nothing to do with being directly related one nation with another nation or one culture with another culture. I'm not saying that.
You can believe whatever you want but there was no such thing of Somali slaves let alone Somali slaves sent to the New World

drobbah
04-10-2021, 04:21 AM
I not said that again I repeat again.

Ok how you match Brazilian?
I don't match Brazilians....what are you talking about?

drobbah
04-10-2021, 04:28 AM
You have matches:
The keyword there is imputed kit not my original kit.The imputed kit is very noisey which gives me 22% Maghrebi and Euro & Latino matches.It's not reliable as imputation is essentially guessing large chunks of dna.I don't have any Euro matches that don't have a Somali parent or grandparent on my original kit and also my parents kit.We also don't have any Latino matches.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
04-10-2021, 02:50 PM
Nimeshanga nilifikiri warabu watakuwa na asili zaidi za mwafrika...at least the same as me minimum.

Sijui mengi juu ya waarabu wa pwani wenye asili ya Yemen but I think the amount of African admixture varies. A Yemeni who has ancestors who've lived along the coast going back 1000 years is more likely to have more Bantu admixture than a pure Yemeni who has great grandparents & 2xgreat grandparents that arrived on the coast more recently.

ThaYamamoto
04-10-2021, 06:05 PM
Sijui mengi juu ya waarabu wa pwani wenye asili ya Yemen but I think the amount of African admixture varies. A Yemeni who has ancestors who've lived along the coast going back 1000 years is more likely to have more Bantu admixture than a pure Yemeni who has great grandparents & 2xgreat grandparents that arrived on the coast more recently.

Ahh lakini it makes sense then I didn't know there were more recent migrants like that lol

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
04-10-2021, 07:56 PM
This Reddit post was from a while back: Indian-Tanzanian (Punjabi Khatri) Results (he probably has a Tanzanian great great grandparent)

91.8% South Asian (Pakistan)

6.3% Sub-Saharan African
3.4% Southern East African
1.2% Sudanese
1.1% Congolese
0.2% Coastal West African
0.1% Ethiopian & Eritrean
0.1% Broadly West African
0.3% Broadly Sub-Saharan African

0.7% Western Asian

0.3% Broadly Southern European

0.2% East Asian & Native American

44231

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
04-10-2021, 08:03 PM
A Somali with some admixture (South Asian, Arab, and a few trace % ones)

44232
44233

JFWinstone
04-13-2021, 10:29 AM
My mum's FTDNA results (from an upload can't remember if it was 23andme or ancestry). The African ancestry is interesting for her East African and Malagasy ancestry.

Europe - 49%

Western Europe
Scandinavia - 28%
England, Wales, and Scotland - 19%

Eastern Europe
East Slavic2%

Asia - 30%

Indian Subcontinent
Eastern India - 21%

Island Southeast Asia
Malaysia & Western Indonesia - 3%
Philippine Lowlands - <1%

Myanmar
Myanmar - 3%

Central Asia
Mongolia - <2%

Southeast Asia
Southern Han - <2%

Africa- 17%

East Africa
Western Lake Victoria Basin - 9%
Eastern Lake Victoria Basin - 3%

Horn of Africa
Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia - 4%

South Africa
Southern Africa - <2%

Central Africa
Atlantic Equatorial Africa - <1%
Southern Congo Basin - <1%

Middle East & North Africa - <4%

North Africa
Maghreb & Egypt - <4%

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
04-14-2021, 07:09 PM
My mum's FTDNA results (from an upload can't remember if it was 23andme or ancestry). The African ancestry is interesting for her East African and Malagasy ancestry.

Europe - 49%

Western Europe
Scandinavia - 28%
England, Wales, and Scotland - 19%

Eastern Europe
East Slavic2%

Asia - 30%

Indian Subcontinent
Eastern India - 21%

Island Southeast Asia
Malaysia & Western Indonesia - 3%
Philippine Lowlands - <1%

Myanmar
Myanmar - 3%

Central Asia
Mongolia - <2%

Southeast Asia
Southern Han - <2%

Africa- 17%

East Africa
Western Lake Victoria Basin - 9%
Eastern Lake Victoria Basin - 3%

Horn of Africa
Eritrea, Northern Ethiopia & Somalia - 4%

South Africa
Southern Africa - <2%

Central Africa
Atlantic Equatorial Africa - <1%
Southern Congo Basin - <1%

Middle East & North Africa - <4%

North Africa
Maghreb & Egypt - <4%

Is your mum 1/2 Malagasy? that 4% Horner Admix is unique, all of the Malagasy results I've seen show none to noise trace levels of Horner admixture.


GedrosiaDNA World 25

SAN_PYGMY 4.58%
ALTAIAN 0.06%
NEAR_EASTERN 0.99%
SSA 72.29%
OCEANIAN 0.64%
W_STEPPE 0.10%
S_INDIAN 1.29%
E_AFRICAN_HADZA 6.70%
MBUTI 4.60%
N_AMERINDIAN 0.37%
N_AFRICAN 2.38%
BALOCHI 2.00%
E_STEPPE 0.70%
C_AFRICAN_BIAKA 3.29%
PAPUAN 0.01%

All the Gedrosia calculators are picking out Balochi + South Indian in my results perhaps I have genuine Pakistani ancestry? It's only the Gedrosia calculators and DNA Land which pick it up. DNA Land interpreted it as Kalash. Its strange how 23andme doesn't show it...

JFWinstone
04-15-2021, 08:40 AM
Is your mum 1/2 Malagasy? that 4% Horner Admix is unique, all of the Malagasy results I've seen show none to noise trace levels of Horner admixture

She's half Mauritian Creole, her African ancestry is via Malagasy and East African enslaved people. It's difficult unpicking exactly where they were from though due to difficulty accessing records. I suspect the Horner in this may be inflated though, she does score a small amount on 23andme but only 0.3%.

Deftextra
04-20-2021, 03:51 PM
A Somali with some admixture (South Asian, Arab, and a few trace % ones)

44232
44233

I have similar matches and the ones I have been able to get in contact with all had one benadiri grand parent or great grand parent. Some also were benadiri on their direct paternal line, but had only one grand parent or great grand-parent who was full benadiri.

Deftextra
04-22-2021, 06:10 PM
There are Somalis and other Horners who went to Cairo to study at Al-Azhar which was the greatest center of Islamic learning for centuries.It was kind of like the Harvard of it's era.There are many recorded Somali scholars who studied there like Fakhr al-Din al-Zayla'i,Abd al-Rahman al-Jabarti and many other scholars teaching fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence),ahaadith, nahwu (classical Arabic grammar).

Riwaq al Zayla'i was the college for Somali students in Al-Azhar, I have even read Somali scholars reaching as far as Damascus like Muhammad Ash-shams al Zayli'i.I wouldn’t be surprised if the Libyan E-Y18637 is a direct descendant of a Somali jurist.Somalis spread all over the Islamic world especially once kingdoms needed educated people in their administrations, if you were educated you could literally be employed in any part of the Islamic world.

Might explain why many Somali Bandaris are more Egyptian&Levantive than peninsular Arab on 23andMe. The highest I have seen:
44457

drobbah
04-22-2021, 06:44 PM
Might explain why many Somali Bandaris are more Egyptian&Levantive than peninsular Arab on 23andMe. The highest I have seen:
44457
There definitely was a bidirectional geneflow, Somalis went there for study or work opportunities in the administration from the Ayyubid period onwards and Egyptians came to modern Somaliland ( previously under Ottoman rule) & Harar.Perhaps some Egyptian merchants decided to go further south to Somalia for better opportunities as your coasts were more habitable (better climate) and therefore more cosmopolitan.

I've seen Harari and even Somalilanders with Egyptian ancestry on 23&me and ftdna.My maternal cousin has a great grandmother from Egypt.So these people up North probably had recent Egyptian ancestry, I suspect those Benadiris with Egyptian ancestry is quite recent (within 6 generations) aswell.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_Dynasty_map_en.png/1280px-Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_Dynasty_map_en.png

44458

Deftextra
04-23-2021, 12:03 AM
1/2 sheekale (likely from the interior) 1/4 Somali (from the north) and 1/4 Benadiri on her direct paternal line.


44464

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
04-24-2021, 09:40 PM
Zanzibari

Sub-Saharan African 65.7%
Congolese & Southern East African 63.5%
Angolan & Congolese 42.8%
Southern East African 17.1%

Northern East African 1.2%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 0.7%
Somali 0.2%
Broadly Northern East African 0.3%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.0%

Western Asian & North African 30.7%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 28.4%
Peninsular Arab 21.4%
Levantine 2.0%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 5.0%

Northern West Asian 0.5%
Iranian, Caucasus & Mesopotamian 0.4%
Broadly Nothern West Asian 0.1%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 1.8%

Central & South Asian 2.4%
Northern Indian & Pakistani 1.3%
Broadly Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.3%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.8%

Trace Ancestry

Indonesian, Thai, Khmer & Myanma 0.2%
British & Irish 0.1%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%

Kenyan Kamba

Sub-Saharan African 99.8%
Congolese & Southern East African 36.2%
Southern East African 12.6%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 23.6%

Northern East African 18.8%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 2.1%
Sudanese 0.4%
Broadly Northern East African 16.3%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 44.8%

Unassigned 0.2%

Chadian Toubou

Sub-Saharan African 97.4%
Northern East African 88.2%
Sudanese 88.2%

West African 7.9%
Senegambian & Guinean 2.2%
Ghanian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.8%
Broadly West African 4.9%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.3%

Western Asian & North African 2.4%
North African 2.4%

Unassigned 0.2%

I don't know what he/shes ethnic background is

Sub-Saharan African 96.2%
West African 96.2%
Senegambian & Guinean 96.2%

Western Asian & North African 3.5%
North African 3.2%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 0.3%
Peninsular Arab 0.3%

Trace Ancestry 0.2% (N/A)
Unassigned 0.1%

Eritrean?

Sub-Saharan African 96.3%
Northern East African 96.3%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 57.1% ( Anseba Eritrea )
Sudanese 39.2%

Western Asian & North African 2.6%
Northern West Asian 2.6%
Iranian, Caucasus & Mesopotamian 2.6%

Central & South Asian 1.1%
Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 1.1%
Bengali & Northeast Indian 0.6%
Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.5%

Luhya

Sub-Saharan African 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 99.9%
Southern East African 97.4%
Angolan & Congolese 2.5%

Trace Ancestry 0.1%
Sardinian 0.1%

Ethiopian

Sub-Saharan African 96.3%
Northern East African 96.3%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 92.3%
Sudanese 3.8%
Broadly Northern East African 0.2%

Western Asian & North African 3.7
Arab,Egyptian & Levantine 3.7%
Peninsular Arab 3.7%

Sudanese

Sub-Saharan African 99.6%
Northern East African 99.6%
Sudanese (Khartoum Sudan + 1 other region) 98.0%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Trace Ancestry 0.4%
Siberian 0.2%
Eastern European 0.2%

drobbah
04-25-2021, 04:33 AM
Somali with a direct Turkish ancestor (Ottoman)

Haplogroups R-P25_1 & L2a1j

82.2 Somali
2.7 Ethio/Eritrean
0.3 Nigerian

11.2% Anatolian
3.4% Iranian

Deftextra
05-12-2021, 10:30 PM
New match from Baraawe:


44674
44675

mpatsibihugu89
05-12-2021, 11:59 PM
Zanzibari

Sub-Saharan African 65.7%
Congolese & Southern East African 63.5%
Angolan & Congolese 42.8%
Southern East African 17.1%

Northern East African 1.2%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 0.7%
Somali 0.2%
Broadly Northern East African 0.3%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.0%

Western Asian & North African 30.7%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 28.4%
Peninsular Arab 21.4%
Levantine 2.0%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 5.0%

Northern West Asian 0.5%
Iranian, Caucasus & Mesopotamian 0.4%
Broadly Nothern West Asian 0.1%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 1.8%

Central & South Asian 2.4%
Northern Indian & Pakistani 1.3%
Broadly Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.3%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.8%

Trace Ancestry

Indonesian, Thai, Khmer & Myanma 0.2%
British & Irish 0.1%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%

Kenyan Kamba

Sub-Saharan African 99.8%
Congolese & Southern East African 36.2%
Southern East African 12.6%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 23.6%

Northern East African 18.8%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 2.1%
Sudanese 0.4%
Broadly Northern East African 16.3%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 44.8%

Unassigned 0.2%

Chadian Toubou

Sub-Saharan African 97.4%
Northern East African 88.2%
Sudanese 88.2%

West African 7.9%
Senegambian & Guinean 2.2%
Ghanian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.8%
Broadly West African 4.9%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.3%

Western Asian & North African 2.4%
North African 2.4%

Unassigned 0.2%

I don't know what he/shes ethnic background is

Sub-Saharan African 96.2%
West African 96.2%
Senegambian & Guinean 96.2%

Western Asian & North African 3.5%
North African 3.2%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 0.3%
Peninsular Arab 0.3%

Trace Ancestry 0.2% (N/A)
Unassigned 0.1%

Eritrean?

Sub-Saharan African 96.3%
Northern East African 96.3%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 57.1% ( Anseba Eritrea )
Sudanese 39.2%

Western Asian & North African 2.6%
Northern West Asian 2.6%
Iranian, Caucasus & Mesopotamian 2.6%

Central & South Asian 1.1%
Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 1.1%
Bengali & Northeast Indian 0.6%
Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.5%

Luhya

Sub-Saharan African 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 99.9%
Southern East African 97.4%
Angolan & Congolese 2.5%

Trace Ancestry 0.1%
Sardinian 0.1%

Ethiopian

Sub-Saharan African 96.3%
Northern East African 96.3%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 92.3%
Sudanese 3.8%
Broadly Northern East African 0.2%

Western Asian & North African 3.7
Arab,Egyptian & Levantine 3.7%
Peninsular Arab 3.7%

Sudanese

Sub-Saharan African 99.6%
Northern East African 99.6%
Sudanese (Khartoum Sudan + 1 other region) 98.0%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Trace Ancestry 0.4%
Siberian 0.2%
Eastern European 0.2%

I wish we saw more Tazanians on these streets.

gihanga.rwanda
05-13-2021, 06:45 PM
Zanzibari

Sub-Saharan African 65.7%
Congolese & Southern East African 63.5%
Angolan & Congolese 42.8%
Southern East African 17.1%

Northern East African 1.2%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 0.7%
Somali 0.2%
Broadly Northern East African 0.3%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.0%

Western Asian & North African 30.7%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 28.4%
Peninsular Arab 21.4%
Levantine 2.0%
Broadly Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 5.0%

Northern West Asian 0.5%
Iranian, Caucasus & Mesopotamian 0.4%
Broadly Nothern West Asian 0.1%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 1.8%

Central & South Asian 2.4%
Northern Indian & Pakistani 1.3%
Broadly Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.3%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.8%

Trace Ancestry

Indonesian, Thai, Khmer & Myanma 0.2%
British & Irish 0.1%
Ashkenazi Jewish 0.1%

Kenyan Kamba

Sub-Saharan African 99.8%
Congolese & Southern East African 36.2%
Southern East African 12.6%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 23.6%

Northern East African 18.8%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 2.1%
Sudanese 0.4%
Broadly Northern East African 16.3%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 44.8%

Unassigned 0.2%

Chadian Toubou

Sub-Saharan African 97.4%
Northern East African 88.2%
Sudanese 88.2%

West African 7.9%
Senegambian & Guinean 2.2%
Ghanian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.8%
Broadly West African 4.9%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.3%

Western Asian & North African 2.4%
North African 2.4%

Unassigned 0.2%

I don't know what he/shes ethnic background is

Sub-Saharan African 96.2%
West African 96.2%
Senegambian & Guinean 96.2%

Western Asian & North African 3.5%
North African 3.2%
Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 0.3%
Peninsular Arab 0.3%

Trace Ancestry 0.2% (N/A)
Unassigned 0.1%

Eritrean?

Sub-Saharan African 96.3%
Northern East African 96.3%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 57.1% ( Anseba Eritrea )
Sudanese 39.2%

Western Asian & North African 2.6%
Northern West Asian 2.6%
Iranian, Caucasus & Mesopotamian 2.6%

Central & South Asian 1.1%
Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 1.1%
Bengali & Northeast Indian 0.6%
Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.5%

Luhya

Sub-Saharan African 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 99.9%
Southern East African 97.4%
Angolan & Congolese 2.5%

Trace Ancestry 0.1%
Sardinian 0.1%

Ethiopian

Sub-Saharan African 96.3%
Northern East African 96.3%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 92.3%
Sudanese 3.8%
Broadly Northern East African 0.2%

Western Asian & North African 3.7
Arab,Egyptian & Levantine 3.7%
Peninsular Arab 3.7%

Sudanese

Sub-Saharan African 99.6%
Northern East African 99.6%
Sudanese (Khartoum Sudan + 1 other region) 98.0%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Trace Ancestry 0.4%
Siberian 0.2%
Eastern European 0.2%

I remember seeing the Eritrean’s results. He mentioned he was half Tigrinya and half Kunama, which would explain his elevated Sudanese results. The person with the high Senegambian results is Fulani.

mpatsibihugu89
05-14-2021, 12:14 AM
I remember seeing the Eritrean’s results. He mentioned he was half Tigrinya and half Kunama, which would explain his elevated Sudanese results. The person with the high Senegambian results is Fulani.

He also carried E-M293 surprisingly if I recall correctly all the way up in Erithrea.

Lank
05-16-2021, 11:34 AM
I remember seeing the Eritrean’s results. He mentioned he was half Tigrinya and half Kunama, which would explain his elevated Sudanese results. The person with the high Senegambian results is Fulani.
He actually stated he is half Tigre, not Tigrinya, on his father's side (Y-DNA E-M293) and half Kunama (mtDNA L4b2a2a). Very interesting results!

Alfa
05-16-2021, 03:47 PM
He actually stated he is half Tigre, not Tigrinya, on his father's side (Y-DNA E-M293) and half Kunama (mtDNA L4b2a2a). Very interesting results!

E-M293 in Eritrea is interesting. I am wondering how the E-M293 haplo got there.

If I recall correctly, I remember seeing another Eritrea guy results on reddit who was 100% Tigrinya and also carried E-M293.

Lank
05-16-2021, 05:28 PM
E-M293 in Eritrea is interesting. I am wondering how the E-M293 haplo got there.

If I recall correctly, I remember seeing another Eritrea guy results on reddit who was 100% Tigrinya and also carried E-M293.
4/164 on my list of "relatives" are E-M293. All of them look like Tigrinya Eritreans based on their names, results, and shared relatives (and none of them are closely related to each other).

It is interesting. If these tentative results are to be trusted, it seems like M293 is more frequent in Eritrea than in Ethiopia or Somalia. Eritrea seems to have a lot of V1515 diversity in general. M293 is pretty much absent or very rare in most parts of the Horn, although there are academic M293-related samples from different parts of the Horn, which I guess might be represented by the Arabian Z1267 (https://yfull.com/tree/E-Z1267/)(xM293) samples at YFull.

mpatsibihugu89
05-16-2021, 08:51 PM
4/164 on my list of "relatives" are E-M293. All of them look like Tigrinya Eritreans based on their names, results, and shared relatives (and none of them are closely related to each other).

It is interesting. If these tentative results are to be trusted, it seems like M293 is more frequent in Eritrea than in Ethiopia or Somalia. Eritrea seems to have a lot of V1515 diversity in general. M293 is pretty much absent or very rare in most parts of the Horn, although there are academic M293-related samples from different parts of the Horn, which I guess might be represented by the Arabian Z1267 (https://yfull.com/tree/E-Z1267/)(xM293) samples at YFull.
This Somali guy on the link below has nearly 100% Somali and also carries E-m293. See in comments, he deleted his post. My point is there might some remnants of Em293 lineages that are still alive and kicking in Somalia as well. I haven't seen any Ethiopian with it so far.

https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/hg1jzp/somali_dna_result/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Awale
05-16-2021, 09:28 PM
Might explain why many Somali Bandaris are more Egyptian&Levantive than peninsular Arab on 23andMe. The highest I have seen:
44457

Interesting to note that when Ibn Battuta was in Xamar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogadishu) in 1331 he noted that while the Sultan was a "Berbera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis)" a local prominent judge was Egyptian:

The sultan of Mogadishu was Abu Bakr ibn Shaikh Umar. He was Barbara and spoke the local language of Mogadishu, but he also knew Arabic. Battuta was introduced to the Sultan by the “qadi” Ibn al-Burhăn, an Egyptian. After sending a message via a student to the Sultan, the student returned with a plate containing betel leaves and areca nuts, and a sprinkler that contained Damascas rose water. - source (https://www.visitmogadishu.com/ibn-battuta-travels-to-mogadishu-city-in-1331/#:~:text=Because%20Battuta%20was%20a%20learned,the %20%E2%80%9Cqadi%E2%80%9D%20of%20Mogdishu.&text=The%20sultan%20of%20Mogadishu%20was%20Abu%20B akr%20ibn%20Shaikh%20Umar.&text=The%20Sultan%20ordered%20Battuta%20to,student s%2C%20and%20sent%20him%20food.)

Alfa
05-17-2021, 01:10 PM
This Somali guy on the link below has nearly 100% Somali and also carries E-m293. See in comments, he deleted his post. My point is there might some remnants of Em293 lineages that are still alive and kicking in Somalia as well. I haven't seen any Ethiopian with it so far.

https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/hg1jzp/somali_dna_result/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

In Ethiopia, if I recall correctly, there is genetic study that found E-M293 among Wolyata. There are also some members here who claimed that E-M293 was found among Oromo. But, it is very rare. I guess these commercials(23andme..) dna results have more surprises for us.

drobbah
05-17-2021, 03:04 PM
Interesting to note that when Ibn Battuta was in Xamar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogadishu) in 1331 he noted that while the Sultan was a "Berbera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis)" a local prominent judge was Egyptian:

The sultan of Mogadishu was Abu Bakr ibn Shaikh Umar. He was Barbara and spoke the local language of Mogadishu, but he also knew Arabic. Battuta was introduced to the Sultan by the “qadi” Ibn al-Burhăn, an Egyptian. After sending a message via a student to the Sultan, the student returned with a plate containing betel leaves and areca nuts, and a sprinkler that contained Damascas rose water. - source (https://www.visitmogadishu.com/ibn-battuta-travels-to-mogadishu-city-in-1331/#:~:text=Because%20Battuta%20was%20a%20learned,the %20%E2%80%9Cqadi%E2%80%9D%20of%20Mogdishu.&text=The%20sultan%20of%20Mogadishu%20was%20Abu%20B akr%20ibn%20Shaikh%20Umar.&text=The%20Sultan%20ordered%20Battuta%20to,student s%2C%20and%20sent%20him%20food.)
The Futuh which two centuries later mentions Egyptian archers participating in the war as well like Abd' as-Salam Ar-Rifi and his brother Hasb an-Nabi

Tsakhur
05-21-2021, 06:14 PM
Don't know if it is the right thread to post here. These individuals are from Malaysia but they seem to have some African ancestry, which is rare as most SE Asian results that I saw don't score any African. I wonder if they have recent Swahili ancestors from East Africa as a result of Indian Ocean trade? Or could there be some African soldiers who were recruited by the British in the Malay Peninsula and settled down there? Because there seem to be a similar historical phenomenon in Indonesia called the Belanda Hitam (Black Dutchmen) where thousands of Africans primarily of Akan or Fante were recruited by the Dutch while they were still colonizing East Indies. Several of them also settled down in modern day Indonesia after finishing their service and marry locals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belanda_Hitam

Btw I only have the gedmatch results.

1. Malay from Kuala Lumpur. She seem to have around 12% African admixture.

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 62.08
2 South_Asian 15.09
3 Sub-Saharan 10.1
4 Oceanian 3.8
5 West_Asian 3.44
6 Baltic 2.3
7 Northeast_African 1.92
8 Amerindian 0.78
9 Red_Sea 0.49

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Malay 16.69
2 Tibeto-Burman_Burmese 18.44
3 Cambodian 19.11
4 Lahu 27
5 Vietnamese 29.68
6 Yizu 30.5
7 Miaozu 31.36
8 Naxi 31.64
9 Tujia 31.9
10 She 32.82
11 Dai 32.92
12 Tu 34.32
13 Japanese 37.54
14 Xibo 45
15 Hezhen 46.69
16 Uygur 48.68
17 Hazara 53.44
18 Aghan_Hazara 55.29
19 Uzbeki 57.27
20 Kirgiz 57.79

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.5% Malay + 13.5% Biaka_Pygmy @ 3.88
2 86.9% Malay + 13.1% Bantu_S.E. @ 3.94
3 85.9% Malay + 14.1% Bantu_N.E. @ 3.96
4 86% Malay + 14% Luhya @ 3.96
5 87% Malay + 13% Bantu_S.W. @ 4.02
6 87.3% Malay + 12.7% Mandenka @ 4.26
7 85.9% Malay + 14.1% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 4.7
8 88% Malay + 12% Yoruban @ 4.74
9 85.7% Malay + 14.3% San @ 5.66
10 84.4% Cambodian + 15.6% Bantu_N.E. @ 5.86
11 84.6% Cambodian + 15.4% Luhya @ 5.88
12 85.1% Cambodian + 14.9% Biaka_Pygmy @ 5.95
13 85.6% Cambodian + 14.4% Bantu_S.E. @ 6.13
14 85.8% Cambodian + 14.2% Bantu_S.W. @ 6.22
15 84.4% Cambodian + 15.6% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 6.38
16 86.1% Cambodian + 13.9% Mandenka @ 6.48
17 86.8% Cambodian + 13.2% Yoruban @ 6.99
18 84.1% Cambodian + 15.9% San @ 7.05
19 85.8% Malay + 14.2% Sandawe @ 8.43
20 87% Malay + 13% Sudanese @ 8.81


Her MDLP K16 results


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SouthEastAsian 65.1
2 Indian 13.07
3 Subsaharian 9.83
4 Australian 2.1
5 Oceanic 2.03
6 NearEast 1.87
7 EastAfrican 1.78
8 Siberian 1.74
9 Amerindian 0.94
10 Caucasian 0.55
11 Ancestor 0.54
12 Arctic 0.42
13 NorthAfrican 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Thai (Thailand) 13.48
2 Batak (Philippines) 14.22
3 Cambodian (Cambodia) 14.78
4 Garo (Meghalaya) 16.37
5 Aeta (Philippines) 16.42
6 Bajo (Indonesia) 16.74
7 Burmese (Burma) 17.35
8 Vizayan (Borneo) 17.91
9 Lebbo (Borneo) 19.49
10 Mizo (Burma) 19.56
11 Kuki (Burma) 20.2
12 Filipino (Philippines) 20.61
13 Vietnamese (NorthVietnam) 21.26
14 Vietnamese (CentralVietnam) 22.03
15 Dusun (Borneo) 22.36
16 Lahu (Yunnan) 22.68
17 Luzon (Philippines) 23.24
18 Vietnamese (SouthVietnam) 23.38
19 Khasi (Meghalaya) 23.72
20 Yi (Yunnan) 23.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 16.1% Siddi (Makran) @ 2.17
2 86.5% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 13.5% Bantu (Kenya) @ 3.04
3 86.4% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 13.6% Luhya (Kenya) @ 3.05
4 86.3% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 13.7% Luo (Kenya) @ 3.1
5 87.6% Thai (Thailand) + 12.4% Bantu (Kenya) @ 3.11
6 87.5% Thai (Thailand) + 12.5% Luhya (Kenya) @ 3.17
7 86.3% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 13.7% Afroamerican (Denver) @ 3.18
8 87.4% Thai (Thailand) + 12.6% Luo (Kenya) @ 3.22
9 88.4% Thai (Thailand) + 11.6% Bantu (SA_Herero) @ 3.26
10 89% Thai (Thailand) + 11% Gambian (Gambia) @ 3.3
11 88.9% Thai (Thailand) + 11.1% Mandenka (Gambia) @ 3.32
12 89.1% Thai (Thailand) + 10.9% Mende (Sierra_Leone) @ 3.36
13 89.4% Thai (Thailand) + 10.6% Esan (Nigeria) @ 3.43
14 89.4% Thai (Thailand) + 10.6% Yoruba (Nigeria) @ 3.44
15 87.4% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 12.6% Bantu (SA_Herero) @ 3.47
16 87.5% Thai (Thailand) + 12.5% Afroamerican (Denver) @ 3.47
17 85.4% Thai (Thailand) + 14.6% Siddi (Makran) @ 3.52
18 88.1% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 11.9% Gambian (Gambia) @ 3.76
19 88% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 12% Mandenka (Gambia) @ 3.79
20 88.2% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 11.8% Mende (Sierra_Leone) @ 3.86


2. Her cousin I believe. She score very low African (3-4%) compared to the first woman.

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 66.88
2 South_Asian 18.63
3 Sub-Saharan 3.75
4 West_Asian 3.22
5 Oceanian 3.11
6 Baltic 2.46
7 Northeast_African 0.62
8 Amerindian 0.57
9 Red_Sea 0.42
10 East_Med 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Malay 8.95
2 Cambodian 11.81
3 Tibeto-Burman_Burmese 16.12
4 Lahu 22.55
5 Vietnamese 24.57
6 Miaozu 27.72
7 Dai 27.84
8 Tujia 28.68
9 Yizu 28.74
10 She 29.04
11 Naxi 30.11
12 Tu 34.14
13 Japanese 36.98
14 Xibo 45.62
15 Hezhen 47.32
16 Uygur 51.84
17 Hazara 56.53
18 Aghan_Hazara 58.53
19 Uzbeki 60.58
20 Kirgiz 60.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.6% Cambodian + 12.4% Brahmin_UP @ 4.31
2 87.8% Cambodian + 12.2% Gujarati @ 4.35
3 87.8% Cambodian + 12.2% Kshatriya @ 4.35
4 87.6% Cambodian + 12.4% Punjabi_Jat @ 4.37
5 87.8% Cambodian + 12.2% Sindhi @ 4.42
6 91% Malay + 9% Sindhi @ 4.48
7 87.5% Cambodian + 12.5% Pathan @ 4.5
8 91.2% Malay + 8.8% Makrani @ 4.53
9 86.5% Cambodian + 13.5% Bangladeshi @ 4.56
10 90.9% Malay + 9.1% Pathan @ 4.56
11 90.4% Malay + 9.6% Burusho @ 4.6
12 91% Malay + 9% Punjabi_Jat @ 4.61
13 91.1% Malay + 8.9% Kalash @ 4.67
14 91.5% Malay + 8.5% Brahui @ 4.68
15 88.1% Cambodian + 11.9% Dharkar @ 4.7
16 91.5% Malay + 8.5% Balochi @ 4.7
17 88.1% Cambodian + 11.9% Kanjar @ 4.71
18 86.9% Cambodian + 13.1% Burusho @ 4.72
19 91.3% Malay + 8.7% Gujarati @ 4.76
20 90.9% Malay + 9.1% Afghan_Pashtun @ 4.81



Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SouthEastAsian 69.19
2 Indian 15.98
3 Siberian 3.32
4 Subsaharian 3.22
5 Caucasian 2.48
6 Oceanic 2.23
7 Australian 1.75
8 EastAfrican 1.08
9 Ancestor 0.39
10 Neolithic 0.21
11 Amerindian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Thai (Thailand) 6.32
2 Cambodian (Cambodia) 8.54
3 Batak (Philippines) 13.73
4 Garo (Meghalaya) 13.75
5 Vizayan (Borneo) 13.77
6 Bajo (Indonesia) 14.07
7 Burmese (Burma) 14.95
8 Lebbo (Borneo) 15.5
9 Filipino (Philippines) 16.66
10 Aeta (Philippines) 16.71
11 Vietnamese (NorthVietnam) 16.88
12 Mizo (Burma) 17.02
13 Vietnamese (CentralVietnam) 17.3
14 Kuki (Burma) 17.73
15 Dusun (Borneo) 17.8
16 Lahu (Yunnan) 18.4
17 Vietnamese (SouthVietnam) 18.81
18 Luzon (Philippines) 18.97
19 Murut (Borneo) 19.82
20 Kinh (Vietnam) 19.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.8% Thai (Thailand) + 6.2% Siddi (Makran) @ 3.03
2 76.6% Kinh (Vietnam) + 23.4% Kapu (Telangana) @ 3.29
3 77.9% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.1% Scheduled_Caste (Tamil_Nadu) @ 3.41
4 76.5% Kinh (Vietnam) + 23.5% Orissa (India) @ 3.46
5 78% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22% Velama (Andhra_Pradesh) @ 3.47
6 77.5% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.5% Balija (Andhra_Pradesh) @ 3.48
7 77.8% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.2% Piramalai_Kallars (Tamil_Nadu) @ 3.52
8 70.8% Filipino (Philippines) + 29.2% Juang (Odisha) @ 3.53
9 77.3% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.7% Kurumba (Karnataka) @ 3.54
10 86.5% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 13.5% Brahmin (Uttaranchal) @ 3.55
11 93.6% Thai (Thailand) + 6.4% Makrani (Pakistan) @ 3.55
12 77.8% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.2% Tharu (Nepal) @ 3.56
13 77.6% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.4% Naidu (Tamil_Nadu) @ 3.57
14 93.1% Thai (Thailand) + 6.9% Meena (Rajasthan) @ 3.58
15 77.5% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.5% Hallaki ( Uttara_Kannada) @ 3.59
16 77.9% Kinh (Vietnam) + 22.1% Gupta (Rajput) @ 3.6
17 80.9% Filipino (Philippines) + 19.1% Sakilli (Tamil_Nadu) @ 3.6
18 73% Igorot (Philippines) + 27% Kapu (Telangana) @ 3.6
19 93.7% Thai (Thailand) + 6.3% Brahui (Baluchistan) @ 3.62
20 93.7% Thai (Thailand) + 6.3% Balochi (Baluchistan) @ 3.62


3. Another cousin of the first lady. She score around 6-7% African or more it seems:

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 62.71
2 South_Asian 20.49
3 Sub-Saharan 6.35
4 Oceanian 4.12
5 West_Asian 2.02
6 Baltic 2.02
7 West_Med 0.7
8 Northeast_African 0.62
9 Amerindian 0.5
10 East_Med 0.48


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Malay 13.75
2 Tibeto-Burman_Burmese 16.07
3 Cambodian 16.97
4 Lahu 27.06
5 Vietnamese 29.52
6 Yizu 30.93
7 Miaozu 31.86
8 Naxi 32.1
9 Tujia 32.52
10 Dai 32.83
11 She 33.34
12 Tu 35.12
13 Japanese 38.34
14 Xibo 45.83
15 Hezhen 47.46
16 Uygur 49.38
17 Hazara 54
18 Aghan_Hazara 55.83
19 Uzbeki 57.87
20 Austroasiatic_Ho 58.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 89.7% Malay + 10.3% Bantu_N.E. @ 7.06
2 89.8% Malay + 10.2% Luhya @ 7.07
3 90.2% Malay + 9.8% Biaka_Pygmy @ 7.1
4 90.5% Malay + 9.5% Bantu_S.E. @ 7.14
5 90.6% Malay + 9.4% Bantu_S.W. @ 7.17
6 90.8% Malay + 9.2% Mandenka @ 7.23
7 89.7% Malay + 10.3% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 7.29
8 86.6% Malay + 13.4% Kshatriya @ 7.42
9 86.4% Malay + 13.6% Brahmin_UP @ 7.43
10 91.3% Malay + 8.7% Yoruban @ 7.44
11 85.1% Malay + 14.9% Bangladeshi @ 7.45
12 86.7% Malay + 13.3% Gujarati @ 7.46
13 86.8% Malay + 13.2% Dharkar @ 7.51
14 89.6% Malay + 10.4% San @ 7.57
15 86.9% Malay + 13.1% Kanjar @ 7.59
16 87.2% Malay + 12.8% Velamas @ 7.63
17 86.8% Malay + 13.2% Sindhi @ 7.64
18 86.9% Malay + 13.1% Uttar_Pradesh @ 7.64
19 87.3% Malay + 12.7% Kurumba @ 7.64
20 87.1% Malay + 12.9% Dusadh @ 7.67


Her MDLP K16 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SouthEastAsian 66.11
2 Indian 17.11
3 Subsaharian 6.57
4 Australian 2.98
5 Siberian 1.97
6 Oceanic 1.73
7 Caucasian 0.74
8 NorthAfrican 0.63
9 Arctic 0.54
10 Ancestor 0.52
11 EastAfrican 0.48
12 NearEast 0.37
13 Amerindian 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Thai (Thailand) 10.82
2 Cambodian (Cambodia) 12.39
3 Batak (Philippines) 12.86
4 Garo (Meghalaya) 14.32
5 Aeta (Philippines) 15.39
6 Burmese (Burma) 15.42
7 Bajo (Indonesia) 15.56
8 Vizayan (Borneo) 17.38
9 Mizo (Burma) 18.69
10 Lebbo (Borneo) 18.74
11 Kuki (Burma) 19.31
12 Filipino (Philippines) 20.41
13 Vietnamese (NorthVietnam) 20.74
14 Vietnamese (CentralVietnam) 21.27
15 Khasi (Meghalaya) 21.38
16 Dusun (Borneo) 21.63
17 Lahu (Yunnan) 22.11
18 Vietnamese (SouthVietnam) 22.63
19 Luzon (Philippines) 22.68
20 Murut (Borneo) 23.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.7% Thai (Thailand) + 11.3% Siddi (Makran) @ 4.04
2 87.1% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 12.9% Siddi (Makran) @ 4.09
3 91.6% Thai (Thailand) + 8.4% Bantu (SA_Herero) @ 5.2
4 90.9% Thai (Thailand) + 9.1% Afroamerican (Denver) @ 5.21
5 92.1% Thai (Thailand) + 7.9% Gambian (Gambia) @ 5.31
6 92% Thai (Thailand) + 8% Mandenka (Gambia) @ 5.32
7 91% Thai (Thailand) + 9% Luo (Kenya) @ 5.32
8 91.1% Thai (Thailand) + 8.9% Luhya (Kenya) @ 5.33
9 92.1% Thai (Thailand) + 7.9% Mende (Sierra_Leone) @ 5.35
10 92.4% Thai (Thailand) + 7.6% Esan (Nigeria) @ 5.41
11 92.4% Thai (Thailand) + 7.6% Yoruba (Nigeria) @ 5.42
12 89.6% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 10.4% Afroamerican (Denver) @ 5.82
13 89.7% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 10.3% Luo (Kenya) @ 6.03
14 89.8% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 10.2% Luhya (Kenya) @ 6.04
15 90.5% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 9.5% Bantu (SA_Herero) @ 6.05
16 90.5% Thai (Thailand) + 9.5% Kikuyu (Kenya) @ 6.24
17 91.1% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 8.9% Gambian (Gambia) @ 6.28
18 91.1% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 8.9% Mandenka (Gambia) @ 6.29
19 91.2% Cambodian (Cambodia) + 8.8% Mende (Sierra_Leone) @ 6.33
20 90.1% Thai (Thailand) + 9.9% Maasai (Ayodo) @ 6.35


Here are their pics. Already asked their permssion: please don't quote, will remove it soon:
https://i.imgur.com/dPiRIKZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/VHUk2k0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BbCeTNC.jpg


4. This individual is not related to the three ladies above. He seems to have genuine Swahili ancestry as he also have a relative who is from Mombasa. He is approximately 13-14% African. Surprisingly, he seem to have a lot of South Asian admixture, but his lastname seems to be Indian in origin.

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 32.74
2 South_Asian 27.54
3 Sub-Saharan 10.06
4 West_Asian 6.65
5 East_Med 6.23
6 Northeast_African 3.86
7 Oceanian 3.78
8 Baltic 3.49
9 Amerindian 2.71
10 Red_Sea 2.47
11 North_Atlantic 0.47


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Uygur 33.02
2 Tibeto-Burman_Burmese 35.73
3 Aghan_Hazara 35.75
4 Hazara 36.36
5 Uzbeki 37.87
6 Afghan_Tadjik 40.21
7 Bangladeshi 40.35
8 Austroasiatic_Ho 40.79
9 Burusho 42.47
10 Turkmen 43.15
11 Tadjik 43.31
12 Afghan_Turkmen 43.52
13 Malay 45.21
14 Nogay 45.74
15 Afghan_Pashtun 45.89
16 Pathan 45.9
17 Brahmin_UP 46.31
18 Punjabi_Jat 46.45
19 Kirgiz 47.4
20 Kazakh 47.4

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.7% Malay + 49.3% Brahmin_UP @ 16.88
2 55.7% Brahmin_UP + 44.3% Lahu @ 17.09
3 51.4% Brahmin_UP + 48.6% Cambodian @ 17.11
4 50.4% Malay + 49.6% Pathan @ 17.17
5 51.5% Malay + 48.5% Kshatriya @ 17.3
6 50.8% Malay + 49.2% Punjabi_Jat @ 17.32
7 54.9% Kshatriya + 45.1% Lahu @ 17.42
8 57.4% Brahmin_UP + 42.6% Vietnamese @ 17.42
9 57.9% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese + 42.1% Brahmin_UP @ 17.45
10 59% Brahmin_UP + 41% Dai @ 17.51
11 50.6% Kshatriya + 49.4% Cambodian @ 17.58
12 51.8% Malay + 48.2% Sindhi @ 17.65
13 52% Malay + 48% Gujarati @ 17.66
14 58% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese + 42% Punjabi_Jat @ 17.67
15 51.7% Pathan + 48.3% Cambodian @ 17.75
16 57.3% Brahmin_UP + 42.7% Miaozu @ 17.77
17 51.3% Punjabi_Jat + 48.7% Cambodian @ 17.78
18 56.7% Kshatriya + 43.3% Vietnamese @ 17.82
19 58.8% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese + 41.2% Kshatriya @ 17.82
20 58.1% Brahmin_UP + 41.9% She @ 17.87

His MDLP K16 result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SouthEastAsian 36.37
2 Indian 27.93
3 Caucasian 8.35
4 Subsaharian 8.29
5 EastAfrican 5.51
6 Australian 4.34
7 NorthEastEuropean 1.87
8 Oceanic 1.45
9 Amerindian 1.4
10 NearEast 1.22
11 Ancestor 1.04
12 NorthAfrican 0.95
13 Neolithic 0.67
14 Steppe 0.61
[spoiler]
Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Great_Andamanese (Andaman_Islands) 16.39
2 Onge (Andaman_Islands) 18.31
3 Bonda (Malkangiri ) 19.26
4 Juang (Odisha) 19.5
5 Khasi (Meghalaya) 19.81
6 Gadaba (Odisha) 20.74
7 Kharia (Bihar) 22.09
8 Munda (Tripura) 22.34
9 Brahmin (Uttaranchal) 23.09
10 Kusunda (Nepal) 23.4
11 Ho (Jharkhand) 23.83
12 Savara (Odisha) 24.48
13 Dhurwa (Orissa) 25.53
14 Bhunjia (Odisha) 26.01
15 Mawasi (Maharashtra) 26.22
16 Aeta (Philippines) 27.62
17 Sahariya (Madhya_Pradesh) 28.96
18 Tamang (Nepal) 29.55
19 Santhal (Jharkhand) 30.18
20 Batak (Philippines) 30.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57% Batak (Philippines) + 43% Jatt (Muslim) @ 10.75
2 56.1% Batak (Philippines) + 43.9% Brahmin (India) @ 10.77
3 58% Batak (Philippines) + 42% Meena (Rajasthan) @ 10.92
4 55.3% Batak (Philippines) + 44.7% Jew (Cochin) @ 10.93
5 51.9% Brahmin (India) + 48.1% Bajo (Indonesia) @ 10.98
6 51% Jatt (Muslim) + 49% Bajo (Indonesia) @ 10.98
7 60% Batak (Philippines) + 40% Sindhi (Sindh) @ 10.98
8 59.6% Aeta (Philippines) + 40.4% Jatt (Muslim) @ 10.99
9 58.8% Aeta (Philippines) + 41.2% Brahmin (India) @ 11.07
10 62.6% Aeta (Philippines) + 37.4% Sindhi (Sindh) @ 11.12
11 60.6% Aeta (Philippines) + 39.4% Meena (Rajasthan) @ 11.13
12 62.3% Batak (Philippines) + 37.7% Kalash (Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa) @ 11.14
13 52.7% Jew (Cochin) + 47.3% Bajo (Indonesia) @ 11.24
14 56.7% Batak (Philippines) + 43.3% Kshatriya (India) @ 11.24
15 59% Batak (Philippines) + 41% Gujjar (Punjab) @ 11.24
16 50% Meena (Rajasthan) + 50% Bajo (Indonesia) @ 11.25
17 56.7% Batak (Philippines) + 43.3% Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) @ 11.25
18 59.2% Batak (Philippines) + 40.8% Pathan (Punjab) @ 11.25
19 58% Aeta (Philippines) + 42% Jew (Cochin) @ 11.28
20 59.4% Aeta (Philippines) + 40.6% Kashmiri_Pandit (Kashmir) @ 11.32


His pics. I already asked for his permission. Please don't quote, will remove it soon:

https://i.imgur.com/eVnWt2J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Mw84Lrr.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eVnWt2J.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QCuccr3.jpg

Deftextra
05-22-2021, 05:49 PM
Another interesting new Match match:

44766


MT: T1, Y: L-M27.

Any idea what causes such high broadly categories? They are very common among us.

gihanga.rwanda
05-23-2021, 05:33 PM
Don't know if it is the right thread to post here. These individuals are from Malaysia but they seem to have some African ancestry, which is rare as most SE Asian results that I saw don't score any African. I wonder if they have recent Swahili ancestors from East Africa as a result of Indian Ocean trade? Or could there be some African soldiers who were recruited by the British in the Malay Peninsula and settled down there? Because there seem to be a similar historical phenomenon in Indonesia called the Belanda Hitam (Black Dutchmen) where thousands of Africans primarily of Akan or Fante were recruited by the Dutch while they were still colonizing East Indies. Several of them also settled down in modern day Indonesia after finishing their service and marry locals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belanda_Hitam


These are really interesting results. Were they aware of their distant African ancestry or did it come as a surprise?

Tsakhur
05-23-2021, 09:56 PM
These are really interesting results. Were they aware of their distant African ancestry or did it come as a surprise?

I have to ask them more. For the last guy he already knows it, he told me he has a relative from Mombasa but the three women doesn't seem to know.

Btw its interesting how the last dude reminds me of some Igbos in some pictures due to his light skin, facial features combined with shaved head despite his very low African ancestry. (I know that discussions regarding phenotype/typology isn't allow in this forum but I found it to be interesting)

For example look at these pics (already asked for his permission, will deleted it):

Him on the left https://i.imgur.com/yNNAhTk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Mw84Lrr.jpg

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
05-28-2021, 10:05 AM
My mother's DNA Land results

African 92%
East African 66%
West African 12%
Ambiguous 1.4%

West Eurasian 7.8%
Ashkenazi 6.0%
Ambiguous 1.8%

drobbah
05-29-2021, 01:37 PM
Got my ftdna results and it seems more accurate than 23&me tbh.It accurately gave me 6% Yemeni when most Somalis get 100% Somali.My mother's results will be available tomorrow or the day after and if she gets double the Yemeni than this just further confirms my maternal's family story which has been in Aden for a couple generations, as my mother has a bunch of 100% Middle East Yemeni/Saudi matches on AncestryDNA (ranging from 8-11cm).I wish they separated the Somali component from the Habeshas though.

https://i.imgur.com/QighaO1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ocfBE9t.jpg
So those previous results were based on my 23&me data but a few weeks back I decided to buy an actual FF kit and told ftdna to delete my autosomal transfer.The results are practically the same only difference is the Yemenite Jewish decreases by 3% which isn't the correct amount according to my genealogy.I also found two Peninsular Arab (Emirati) matches including one from a very prominent family in Dubai with the longest shared segment being 18cm with that individual

44827


Considering the Yemeni results I seen posted online predominantly get the Arabian Peninsula component (probably based on Saudis/BedouinB) makes me suspect if my female ancestor was from a family that was forcibly converted by the Zaydi Imamate of Northern Yemen.

From what I read it was uncommon for the regular Yemeni Muslims to give ther daughters in marriage to the poor immigrant Somali men who migrated for opportunities.So my current theory is my Habar Yoonis Somali great great grandfather married an orphaned jewish girl and didn't have to pay much for in dowry.



The Orphans' Decree was a law in Yemen mandating the forced conversion of Jewish orphans to Islam promulgated by the Zaydi. According to one source, the decree has "no parallel in other countries".



Shalom Shabazi, a Jewish poet who lived in 17th century Yemen, wrote in one of his poems about "stealing orphans". A translation of the poem runs thus: "Thousands of orphaned souls, both boys and girls, were wrested from the arms of their parents, grandfather and grandmother, by force by the nations all the days of the many kings of Yemen."

Rabbi Hayyim Habshush writes that by the end of Al-Mansur Ali I's rule in 1809 the Imam built palaces for his sons "and when he settled his sons in those palaces he ordered that the orphaned Jewish children be seized and converted and made servants and scribes in the palaces." In the same account Habshush testifies that there were some "who concealed the children in their homes until they were fully grown."





After getting out of the orphanage, converted Jewish boys were often enlisted as soldiers. The girls made a valuable asset as brides because there were no relatives who needed to be paid a bride price in order to marry them.

mpatsibihugu89
05-30-2021, 01:41 AM
So those previous results were based on my 23&me data but a few weeks back I decided to buy an actual FF kit and told ftdna to delete my autosomal transfer.The results are practically the same only difference is the Yemenite Jewish decreases by 3% which isn't the correct amount according to my genealogy.I also found two Peninsular Arab (Emirati) matches including one from a very prominent family in Dubai with the longest shared segment being 18cm with that individual

44827


Considering the Yemeni results I seen posted online predominantly get the Arabian Peninsula component (probably based on Saudis/BedouinB) makes me suspect if my female ancestor was from a family that was forcibly converted by the Zaydi Imamate of Northern Yemen.

From what I read it was uncommon for the regular Yemeni Muslims to give ther daughters in marriage to the poor immigrant Somali men who migrated for opportunities.So my current theory is my Habar Yoonis Somali great great grandfather married an orphaned jewish girl and didn't have to pay much for in dowry.

Nice to see a comparison. I have wondered myself what the difference would be. I might do that too see what I get. Some my GL matches on ftdna score between 7-18% Maghreb & Egypt which is hard for me to believe. I only get less than 1%. I use my 23andme upload.

drobbah
05-30-2021, 01:51 AM
Nice to see a comparison. I have wondered myself what the difference would be. I might do that too see what I get. Some my GL matches on ftdna score between 7-18% Maghreb & Egypt which is hard for me to believe. I only get less than 1%. I use my 23andme upload.
Does FTDNA have a component based on Tutsis?

Typic
05-30-2021, 02:07 AM
So those previous results were based on my 23&me data but a few weeks back I decided to buy an actual FF kit and told ftdna to delete my autosomal transfer.The results are practically the same only difference is the Yemenite Jewish decreases by 3% which isn't the correct amount according to my genealogy.I also found two Peninsular Arab (Emirati) matches including one from a very prominent family in Dubai with the longest shared segment being 18cm with that individual

44827


Considering the Yemeni results I seen posted online predominantly get the Arabian Peninsula component (probably based on Saudis/BedouinB) makes me suspect if my female ancestor was from a family that was forcibly converted by the Zaydi Imamate of Northern Yemen.

From what I read it was uncommon for the regular Yemeni Muslims to give ther daughters in marriage to the poor immigrant Somali men who migrated for opportunities.So my current theory is my Habar Yoonis Somali great great grandfather married an orphaned jewish girl and didn't have to pay much for in dowry.

I did transfer my raw data from 23andMe and uploaded it on ftdna to see if their assessment could define things that I overlooked. Interestingly, it seems their calculator assorted things in the manner of putting the majority of my SSA ancestry in the Horn of Africa and the rest in Arabian and North African. I suspect this particular assortment strategy on their end because the MENA was at 49% (Arabian Peninsula 28%, Yemenite Jewish 16%, Maghreb & Egypt 5%), while Horner at 51%.

My actual score from 23andMe is the most approximate reflection of my true ancestry at 72,6% Somali, 5,4% Ethiopian & Eritrean, and 21,8% Peninsular Arab. It's strange how radically different ftdna chose to interpret my ancestry compared to other Somalis, including your results above, when the differences are but a quarter ancestry differences on my end, the majority being Yemeni and minor Ethiopian-related stuff.

drobbah
05-30-2021, 06:56 AM
Their horner component seems to be very accurate for those of us who are mostly pure Somali/Horner.Majority of the Somali myorigin matches are 99-100% Somali with a handfull scoring minor Maghreb & Egypt (5-15%).The only
minor Arabian scoring Somali I seen was the user Almagest although he gets 3% Arabian Peninsula not Yemenite Jewish.

Deftextra
05-30-2021, 12:50 PM
FTDNA can be a bit of a hit and miss. Sometimes it shows reasonably accurate results and other times they are very far off.

This is my uncles result who is 1/2 full Somali and 1/2 Benadiri, so he should be around 70% Horner which 23andMe accurately predicts. But FTDNA are quite far off:


44842
44843

mpatsibihugu89
05-30-2021, 02:06 PM
Does FTDNA have a component based on Tutsis?

Not Tutsis. But the West Rift Valley is our largest ancestry component. So it's probably based on our neighbors who also carry minor ancestral East African ancestry. We also score Southern Ethiopia which is interesting. So far I haven't seen horners get it. Also weird that we don't get any any Sahel or Nile valley.

drobbah
05-30-2021, 06:22 PM
Not Tutsis. But the West Rift Valley is our largest ancestry component. So it's probably based on our neighbors who also carry minor ancestral East African ancestry. We also score Southern Ethiopia which is interesting. So far I haven't seen horners get it. Also weird that we don't get any any Sahel or Nile valley.
I have two Somali matches who get trace level West Victoria Basin which is probably equivalent to the SE African component on 23&me.You are probably right that it is a Bantu component with minor Cushitic affinities

As for the Tutsis scoring Southern Ethiopia, perhaps the Tutsis Cushitic ancestors were heavily Mota admixed that makes it resemble the Southern Ethiopians (Wolayta,Borana)?

Alfa
05-30-2021, 09:58 PM
Not Tutsis. But the West Rift Valley is our largest ancestry component. So it's probably based on our neighbors who also carry minor ancestral East African ancestry. We also score Southern Ethiopia which is interesting. So far I haven't seen horners get it. Also weird that we don't get any any Sahel or Nile valley.

West Rift Valley has cushitic ancestry embedded in it according to FTDNA. Someone shared it on this thread not long ago

Alfa
05-30-2021, 10:27 PM
I have two Somali matches who get trace level West Victoria Basin which is probably equivalent to the SE African component on 23&me.You are probably right that it is a Bantu component with minor Cushitic affinities

As for the Tutsis scoring Southern Ethiopia, perhaps the Tutsis Cushitic ancestors were heavily Mota admixed that makes it resemble the Southern Ethiopians (Wolayta,Borana)?

It is possible Tutsi/Hima ancestors were heavily Mota admixed. But Vahaduo may have limits, it may require a more knowledgeable person to verify it.

When Uganda_Munsa is added as West Africa source, Mota is preferred instead of KEN_LSA:

Tutsi/Hima with Uganda_Munsa
44859


According to:

@Chad, Mota is 85% Ken_LSA + ~15% Nilo_Sahara

@Mnemonics said Ken_LSA is predominently Mota with minor ZAF admixtures.

It looks like this Ken_LSA may be an extension of Mota like people from Ethiopia who used to live in Kenya.

This LSA was splitting Tutsi/Hima Mota like ancestry in half.

Tutsi definitely have sthg similar to Mota.

Tutsi/Hima with Iraqw + Luo + Luhya as Source
44861




Tutsi seems to have stronger affinities towards modern cushites like "KEN_MoloCave_1500BP" and "Iraqw"who are heavily Mota admixed and seem to lack ZAF admixtures(which I find hard to beleive according to these G25 samples). Only way this can happen if Tutsi/Hima have Mota.

The FTDNA South Ethiopia signal in Tutsi may be legit.

Alfa
05-30-2021, 11:22 PM
It is possible Tutsi/Hima ancestors were heavily Mota admixed. But Vahaduo may have limits, it may require a more knowledgeable person to verify it.

When Uganda_Munsa is added as West Africa source, Mota is preferred instead of KEN_LSA:

Tutsi/Hima with Uganda_Munsa
44859


According to:

@Chad, Mota is 85% Ken_LSA + ~15% Nilo_Sahara

@Mnemonics said Ken_LSA is predominently Mota with minor ZAF admixtures.

It looks like this Ken_LSA may be an extension of Mota like people from Ethiopia who used to live in Kenya.

This LSA was splitting Tutsi/Hima Mota like ancestry in half.

Tutsi definitely have sthg similar to Mota.

Tutsi/Hima with Iraqw + Luo + Luhya as Source
44861




Tutsi seems to have stronger affinities towards modern cushites like "KEN_MoloCave_1500BP" and "Iraqw"who are heavily Mota admixed and seem to lack ZAF admixtures(which I find hard to beleive according to these G25 samples). Only way this can happen if Tutsi/Hima have Mota.

The FTDNA South Ethiopia signal in Tutsi may be legit.

Even when Sudanese and Dinka are added, Iraqw is preferred. It seems like Tutsi can be successful modelled as


Modern South Cushites Iraqw/ KEN_MoloCave_1500BP + Modern Bantoue Luhya without an additional Sudanese/Dinka source(not needed).

44864

drobbah
05-30-2021, 11:50 PM
Could you do the run again but only insert Dinka instead of putting both Dinka & Sudanese? Also do you and the Tutsis members think it's possible this Sahelian ancestry came from a Bantu population that was significantly Nilotic admixed?

mpatsibihugu89
05-31-2021, 12:05 PM
Could you do the run again but only insert Dinka instead of putting both Dinka & Sudanese? Also do you and the Tutsis members think it's possible this Sahelian ancestry came from a Bantu population that was significantly Nilotic admixed?

I only speak for myself. I don't see that happening. The problem is we don't see other bantu groups with significant "Sudanese" ancestry in the broader rift valley and GL. The "Southern East African" contains the "Sudanese" admixture that Eastern Bantu have and other minor EA geneflow. I think that's all it is.

Alfa
05-31-2021, 01:05 PM
Could you do the run again but only insert Dinka instead of putting both Dinka & Sudanese? Also do you and the Tutsis members think it's possible this Sahelian ancestry came from a Bantu population that was significantly Nilotic admixed?

South East Africa bantoue/ Great Lakes Bantoue(not all of them) seem to carry sthg similar to Dinka in small amount. A more knowledgeable person can confirm it.

Tutsi/Hima with only Dinka as Nilotic source

44875

Tutsi/Hima with both Gumuz & Dinka
44876

It seems like both Tutsi/Hima and Datoga descended from same South Cushites groups from Tanzania (most likely). As Datog ancestors became more nilotic, Tutsi/Hima became more bantoue as they migrated West deeper to North East Rwanda and South of Uganda from Tanzania.

This should not be suprising at all, because according to Tishkoff study, South Cushites like Iraqw (only ones in her study if I recall) form their own cushitic cluster that's different from Horner Cushitic cluster.

drobbah
05-31-2021, 05:40 PM
I thought Datooga are just Nilotes who admixed with their Iraqw neighbors.I think it makes more sense to see the Datooga and Masai as being descend from the same Nilotic population but admixed with different Cushitic groups.

We know who the Datooga admixed with and we know the Masai admixed with both South & East Cushites but the Tutsis seem more complicated.Can Tutsis be modelled as Datooga + Bantu?

Alfa
05-31-2021, 09:42 PM
I thought Datooga are just Nilotes who admixed with their Iraqw neighbors.I think it makes more sense to see the Datooga and Masai as being descend from the same Nilotic population but admixed with different Cushitic groups.

We know who the Datooga admixed with and we know the Masai admixed with both South & East Cushites but the Tutsis seem more complicated.Can Tutsis be modelled as Datooga + Bantu?

Tutsi can also be modelled as Datoga + Bantoue as well.

Datoga have much smaller amount of Dinka than Masai who look almost like 50/50% South Cushites/Dinka

Yes, Datoga are South Nilotes speakers same as Kalenjin. But their autosomal dna looks like South Cushites who absorbed Nilotes. I believe many Datoga looks like they probably cluster closer to Iraqw than many South Cushites speakers in Kenya/Tanzania overall. Datog live among South Cushite&Iraqw, it is amazing how they managed to keep their language. Unbelievable.

drobbah
05-31-2021, 10:29 PM
Tutsi can also be modelled as Datoga + Bantoue as well. Do you think your ancestors prior to shifting to a Bantu language probably spoke a Nilotic language?



Datoga have much smaller amount of Dinka than Masai who look almost like 50/50% South Cushites/Dinka

The Masai seem to be very heterogenous with many of them carrying East Cushitic lineages and ancestry especially the Samburu who neighbour the Rendille.Even one of my close maternal matches was from a Kikuyu who's maternal ancestors were from Northern Tanzania (possible Masai contact).I think there are a substantial amount of even more Cushitic leaning Masai's in comparison to the samples we have on G25.The Masai like the Datoog have individuals that are similar to the IA sample which imo is probably the ancestors of these South Nilotic expansionists

https://i.imgur.com/EtNQsCz.jpg



Yes, Datoga are South Nilotes speakers same as Kalenjin. But their autosomal dna looks like South Cushites who absorbed Nilotes. I believe many Datoga looks like they probably cluster closer to Iraqw than many South Cushites speakers in Kenya/Tanzania overall. Datog live among South Cushite&Iraqw, it is amazing how they managed to keep their language. Unbelievable.
The Datog seem to be exactly like the IA KEN_Pastoral sample except for one sample that is probably a recent Iraqw language shifter.I was mistaken to think the Datog owe their cushitic ancestry to the heavily HG admixed Iraqw.

https://i.imgur.com/4ufr97J.jpg

Modelling Datog as Iraqw + KEN_IA

Target: Datog:GOR067
Distance: 2.3768% / 0.02376818
71.0 KEN_Pastoral_IA
29.0 Iraqw

Target: Datog:GOR063
Distance: 2.7679% / 0.02767881
56.0 Iraqw
44.0 KEN_Pastoral_IA

Target: Datog:GOR049
Distance: 2.3725% / 0.02372509
61.4 KEN_Pastoral_IA
38.6 Iraqw




Using TZA_Luxmanda & KEN_IA

Target: Datog:GOR067
Distance: 2.3312% / 0.02331245
83.0 KEN_Pastoral_IA
17.0 TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP

Target: Datog:GOR063
Distance: 3.3224% / 0.03322428
71.8 KEN_Pastoral_IA
28.2 TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP

Target: Datog:GOR049
Distance: 2.3790% / 0.02379003
78.2 KEN_Pastoral_IA
21.8 TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP

Alfa
06-01-2021, 01:12 PM
Do you think your ancestors prior to shifting to a Bantu language probably spoke a Nilotic language?


The Masai seem to be very heterogenous with many of them carrying East Cushitic lineages and ancestry especially the Samburu who neighbour the Rendille.Even one of my close maternal matches was from a Kikuyu who's maternal ancestors were from Northern Tanzania (possible Masai contact).I think there are a substantial amount of even more Cushitic leaning Masai's in comparison to the samples we have on G25.The Masai like the Datoog have individuals that are similar to the IA sample which imo is probably the ancestors of these South Nilotic expansionists

https://i.imgur.com/EtNQsCz.jpg


The Datog seem to be exactly like the IA KEN_Pastoral sample except for one sample that is probably a recent Iraqw language shifter.I was mistaken to think the Datog owe their cushitic ancestry to the heavily HG admixed Iraqw.

https://i.imgur.com/4ufr97J.jpg

Modelling Datog as Iraqw + KEN_IA

Target: Datog:GOR067
Distance: 2.3768% / 0.02376818
71.0 KEN_Pastoral_IA
29.0 Iraqw

Target: Datog:GOR063
Distance: 2.7679% / 0.02767881
56.0 Iraqw
44.0 KEN_Pastoral_IA

Target: Datog:GOR049
Distance: 2.3725% / 0.02372509
61.4 KEN_Pastoral_IA
38.6 Iraqw




Using TZA_Luxmanda & KEN_IA

Target: Datog:GOR067
Distance: 2.3312% / 0.02331245
83.0 KEN_Pastoral_IA
17.0 TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP

Target: Datog:GOR063
Distance: 3.3224% / 0.03322428
71.8 KEN_Pastoral_IA
28.2 TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP

Target: Datog:GOR049
Distance: 2.3790% / 0.02379003
78.2 KEN_Pastoral_IA
21.8 TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP


Samburu can be described as Masai, but they are different from Masai.

Datog are not Masai, Datog speak a South Nilotic language, therefore are more related to Kalenjin.

To be honest, those models you use can be misleading.

Here an example, I used same Source population:

Tutsi/Hima:
44898
44896
44896

You can see some Tutsi individuals look like a recent Iraqw descendants, which is misleading.

Tutsi/Hima using PN+PIA +Dinka
44897

You can see, when Dinka is added, some of Tutsi looks like straight PN direct descendants. I wouod be cautious about these type of models because they can be misleading.

Regarding if Tutsi/Hima are descendants, we definitely don't look like PIA descendants, especially when you have to account for our real Bantoue admixtures % which tend to change based on Source population used.

Since there is no linguistic evidence or studies regarding loans words or cushitic influence in all bantoue groups who are cushitic admixed, only linguistics experts will tell us more in the future.

But only me still beleive, that there were once a PN like groups genetically in Great Lakes/Sudan who used to speak a nilosaharian language.

drobbah
06-01-2021, 01:32 PM
Samburu can be described as Masai, but they are different from Masai.
Samburu are Masai, there's no debate about it.They speak a dialect of the Maa language



Datog are not Masai, Datog speak a South Nilotic language, therefore are more related to Kalenjin.

Where did I say the Datog were Masai?




To be honest, those models you use can be misleading.

Here an example, I used same Source population:

Tutsi/Hima:
44898
44896
44896

You can see some Tutsi individuals look like a recent Iraqw descendants, which is misleading.

Iraqw and the Datog neighbour each other and apparently inter-marry.It was only right to see if there was any geneflow from the Iraqw to their neighbours.There's nothing misleading about it! It would make no sense to use Iraqw or any contemporary Cushitic population to model Tutsis since there is no modern Cushites in your region of Africa nor did I suggest using the Iraqw for the Tutsis.




You can see, when Dinka is added, some of Tutsi looks like straight PN direct descendants. I wouod be cautious about these type of models because they can be misleading.

Regarding if Tutsi/Hima are descendants, we definitely don't look like PIA descendants, especially when you have to account for our real Bantoue admixtures % which tend to change based on Source population used.
The PIA sample is literally just PN with substantial Nilotic admixture.All evidence points to Tutsis being descendants of the PIA like the Datog,Masai and others like them. The only group that is similar to a PN sample in SE Africa is the Iraqw who are genetically similiar to Tanzanian Luxmanda




Since there is no linguistic evidence or studies regarding loans words or cushitic influence in all bantoue groups who are cushitic admixed, only linguistics experts will tell us more in the future.

But only me still beleive, that there were once a PN like groups genetically in Great Lakes/Sudan who used to speak a nilosaharian language.
I highly doubt there were genetically predominately Cushitic population that spoke a Nilo-Saharan language.Most likely the ancestors of the Tutsis was something similar to the PIA