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Michalis Moriopoulos
01-03-2021, 06:20 PM
We're everywhere. Even frozen in Roopkund Lake.

ThaYamamoto
01-03-2021, 06:41 PM
I found this interesting Facebook page that explores the Greek presence in East Africa during the colonial era from Kenya to Rwanda to Mozambique. It sounds like the Greeks were on their way to becoming the “Lebanese of East Africa”, I wonder what impeded them from establishing sizable communities in the region. It looks like most of them departed once these countries gained independence.

https://m.facebook.com/Greeks-of-Africa-Grecs-de-l-Afrique-1728228410743413/?__tn__=C-R

Very interesting, perhaps due to post-Amiin xenophobia? Although Kenyatta was quite the opposite and Kenya remained cosmopolitan so maybe not. Conversely I read there there was a massive Indian population in Nigeria prior to the civil war upon once they all left. Seemed to have been a trend.


We're everywhere. Even frozen in Roopkund Lake.

:lol:

XXD
01-03-2021, 07:06 PM
My maternal grandfather lived in Wad Madani, Sudan for 40 years. He was a dentist for the Europeans (Brits, Italians, Armenians and Greeks) and treated the local Sudanese for free. He also brought many young Sudanese to study medicine in Athens. The Greek community in Khartoum and Wad Madani seems to have been significant. They often had problems with Muslim fundamentalists, some even being killed.

He made a little dental Museum in Wad Madani, with photos and samples of the worst cases in his career. I wonder if it still survives.

He was allowed to stay after most Europeans were gone, but his missus was missing the life in Athens, so they left :)

Deftextra
01-03-2021, 08:59 PM
My great uncle studied medicine in Moscow and married a Russian. After his studies they both moved to Mogadishu where he opened a clinic. They lived there up until the start of the war.

This is his daughters ancestry results:

42268

Táltos
01-03-2021, 09:57 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJgy6mgH-OC/?hl=en

Random post. I’d be interested in seeing this old woman’s 23andme results. She’s a rare example of a first generation Nilotic/Mediterranean mix, being half Mundari-South Sudanese half Greek.

I wonder how common Greek traders were in parts of Africa during the colonial era, because this isn’t the first SSA person with recent Greek ancestry. I know a Rwandan family who’s mother is a quarter Greek from her grandfather.

I have to say this is very interesting. Off and on with 23andme updates my mom and I have either had small amounts of East African and or Sudanese. I also remember on Gedmatch we had some SNPs from Eritrea. I forget what that tool was on there to look for that, but I don't think they have it anymore.

Anyway with the the new 23andme update, my mom now has 0.5% Sudanese, and 0.2 Broadly Sub Saharan. I have a tiny 0.2 Sudanese, and 0.1 Broadly Sub Saharan. It stays down to the 90% confidence range. We are part Arbëreshë and get lots of matches to Greeks along with ancestor locations to Greece.

Deftextra
01-04-2021, 12:39 AM
I occasionally come across atypical individuals who score southern European/med percentages like this individual:


42271


I was able to contact this individual and she is not aware of any European ancestry other than the typical middle-eastern, south or west Asian ancestry we carry. She claims her ancestors have been in Somalia for centuries.

I usually just assume its coming via some type of Mediterranean Arab ancestry we might be carrying. But the amount she is scoring is quite atypical on Ancestry. Before the update she was 14% Italian, which got me thinking that it might be coming from a colonial Italian ancestor since Our clan was one of the first to establish relations with the Italians in 1880.

drobbah
01-04-2021, 12:50 AM
I occasionally come across atypical individuals who score southern European/med percentages like this individual:


42271


I was able to contact this individual and she is not aware of any European ancestry other than the typical middle-eastern, south or west Asian ancestry we carry. She claims her ancestors have been in Somalia for centuries.

I usually just assume its coming via some type of Mediterranean Arab ancestry we might be carrying. But the amount she is scoring is quite atypical on Ancestry. Before the update she was 14% Italian, which got me thinking that it might be coming from a colonial Italian ancestor since Our clan was one of the first to establish relations with the Italians in 1880.
How common was intermixing between Somalis from Somalia and the Italian colonial settlers? Have you seen other results with traces of Italian?

Deftextra
01-04-2021, 01:33 AM
How common was intermixing between Somalis from Somalia and the Italian colonial settlers?

Very rare from what I have heard and can make out. If any intermixing occurred it was usually the main Somali clans I have been told by the older people who lived through those times. (Not sure If they are being biased there though).


Have you seen other results with traces of Italian?
On ancestry trace amounts of med ancestry is very rare. I have only come across a couple out of a dozen. But if there is any trace amounts present it is usually Italian.

On 23andMe, trace amounts of med ancestry is quite common, but can easily come from our middle-eastern ancestry.

Med ancestry in general on My Heritage is very common (I score 2.4% Greek there), but My heritage is very unreliable (almost a joke) on most ancestral categories.

drobbah
01-04-2021, 03:23 AM
Very rare from what I have heard and can make out. If any intermixing occurred it was usually the main Somali clans I have been told by the older people who lived through those times. (Not sure If they are being biased there though).

There was 30,000 Italians in Somalia by 1930, intermarriage between the Italian men and Somali women was bound to happen.Besides the rebellions led by the Dir Biyomaal it seems the local Hawiye/Darood didn't put up much resistance to the settlers and the Italian colonial government.





On ancestry trace amounts of med ancestry is very rare. I have only come across a couple out of a dozen. But if there is any trace amounts present it is usually Italian.

On 23andMe, trace amounts of med ancestry is quite common, but can easily come from our middle-eastern ancestry.

Med ancestry in general on My Heritage is very common (I score 2.4% Greek there), but My heritage is very unreliable (almost a joke) on most ancestral categories.
Some of the med ancestry could be from Turks/Turkish admixed MENA individuals who arrived in the Horn.In Berbera there are some families who have maternal "Turkish" ancestry probably from a few generations ago and Net Nomad posted a Harari sample on this thread with substantial Anatolian ancestry.Those Turks are probably Arabs or Egyptians who have Turkish origin though

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_Dynasty_map_en.png/1200px-Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_Dynasty_map_en.png

Deftextra
01-04-2021, 02:13 PM
There was 30,000 Italians in Somalia by 1930, intermarriage between the Italian men and Somali women was bound to happen.Besides the rebellions led by the Dir Biyomaal it seems the local Hawiye/Darood didn't put up much resistance to the settlers and the Italian colonial government.


Yeah, exactly what I was thinking. I know it must have happened since there are many historical records of it. I remember reading about a metro station in Rome being named after an Italian-Somali Anti-Nazi fighter a couple of months back:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-53837708

BalkanKiwi
01-04-2021, 11:05 PM
I have to say this is very interesting. Off and on with 23andme updates my mom and I have either had small amounts of East African and or Sudanese. I also remember on Gedmatch we had some SNPs from Eritrea. I forget what that tool was on there to look for that, but I don't think they have it anymore.

Anyway with the the new 23andme update, my mom now has 0.5% Sudanese, and 0.2 Broadly Sub Saharan. I have a tiny 0.2 Sudanese, and 0.1 Broadly Sub Saharan. It stays down to the 90% confidence range. We are part Arbëreshë and get lots of matches to Greeks along with ancestor locations to Greece.

Even though not specifically related to your question, you may find my previous threads relating to SSA helpful in some way (I see you've viewed the Ashkenazi one):

Ashkenazi and Sub-Saharan ancestry tracing using segment matches and G25 modelling (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20374-Ashkenazi-and-Sub-Saharan-ancestry-tracing-using-segment-matches-and-G25-modelling)

Discovering father's minor Sub-Saharan African (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21443-Discovering-father-s-minor-Sub-Saharan-African)

maroco
01-04-2021, 11:32 PM
Even though not specifically related to your question, you may find my previous threads relating to SSA helpful in some way (I see you've viewed the Ashkenazi one):

Ashkenazi and Sub-Saharan ancestry tracing using segment matches and G25 modelling (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?20374-Ashkenazi-and-Sub-Saharan-ancestry-tracing-using-segment-matches-and-G25-modelling)

Discovering father's minor Sub-Saharan African (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21443-Discovering-father-s-minor-Sub-Saharan-African)

East Africans and Eritreans can be heavily mixed with Levantine component, this is probably the reason behind the shared snps. I also scored some East African on my test which is due to Levantine component I believe

42321

gihanga.rwanda
01-06-2021, 02:52 PM
I came across these results on Reddit; the user is Toubou with a Chadian father and Libyan mother. I want to encourage her to run her raw data through Gedmatch and G25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/krewuq/my_results_tubuchad/

pgbk87
01-06-2021, 05:32 PM
I'd wager that this Toubou individual plots somewhere between a Sudanese Arab and a Fulani. They seem to have minimal West African ancestry and it seems strictly Senegambian in nature.

maroco
01-06-2021, 07:44 PM
I came across these results on Reddit; the user is Toubou with a Chadian father and Libyan mother. I want to encourage her to run her raw data through Gedmatch and G25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/krewuq/my_results_tubuchad/

Why is most of her dna showing up as Sudanese

Angoliga
01-06-2021, 08:19 PM
I'd wager that this Toubou individual plots somewhere between a Sudanese Arab and a Fulani.

Seems about right based on this PCA with the Daza (Toubou) appearing more or less intermediate between Fulani and Sudanese Arabs/Nubians -- pulling towards the upper-left midpoint here:

https://i.imgur.com/LXzOrPl.png


(Triska, 2015 (https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/7/12/3484/2467338#89469011))
There's some overlap with fellow Nilo-Saharan speakers (Samburu, Turkana).





They seem to have minimal West African ancestry and it seems strictly Senegambian in nature.

ADMIXTURE runs from this paper have them averaged around ~15-20% West-African, and they do appear to have more of the Senegambian variety you point out; heightened among West-Atlantic Africans (Mandenka, Gambians..).

Some WA-ancestry could also be embedded within "Sudanese" - 23andme's "Sudanese" seems to be a catchall for a wide range of North/South-Sudanese ancestry including the West-Central WA-African affinity found in Nilotes like Dinka but also including the North-African/Levantine affinities more commonplace in North-Sudanese pops.

DonFelipe observed the "Broad West-African" cluster having affinity with participants of Sahelian ancestry (Northern-Nigerians, Hausa and the like) - might be the same case for this guy

gihanga.rwanda
01-06-2021, 10:37 PM
Why is most of her dna showing up as Sudanese

Based on what we’ve seen from formal studies, the Toubou’s ancestry is similar to the Dinka and other Nilotes, but they have elevated West African and Maghrebi-related ancestry. This makes them similar but quite distinct from Fulanis and Sudanese Arabs/Nubians; the former are primarily West African (as opposed to Dinka-like) and the latter are more Eurasian shifted and have probably experienced multiple pulses of Eurasian admixture.

maroco
01-07-2021, 11:17 AM
I ended up pm Him he said he took the g25 test and scored And I ended up getting 29.09% Ibero, shocked his only Getting 3 percent North African in his 23 and me autosomal they need to sort that out

gihanga.rwanda
01-07-2021, 02:05 PM
I ended up pm Him he said he took the g25 test and scored And I ended up getting 29.09% Ibero, shocked his only Getting 3 percent North African in his 23 and me autosomal they need to sort that out

What were the rest of his results if you don’t mind me asking? And do you mean he scored 29% “Iberomaurusian”?

maroco
01-07-2021, 02:46 PM
What were the rest of his results if you don’t mind me asking? And do you mean he scored 29% “Iberomaurusian”?

Yes, I’ll ask for the rest of the results

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-07-2021, 04:15 PM
He has ancestry from the three coastal counties of Kenya ( Mombasa, Kilifi and Kwale )

Sub-Saharan African 72.6%
Western Asian & North African 20.3%
Central & South Asian 5.9%
East Asian & Native American 0.2%
Unassigned 1.0%

Individual from Mombasa I'm not sure what his ethnicity is however, his AC does look very similar to what the Bajuni people have.

Sub-Saharan African 58.8%
Central & South Asian 28.0%
Western Asian & North African 10.8%
East Asian & Native American 0.4%
Unassigned 2.0%

A Digo man from the Mijikenda tribe of Msambweni the south coast of Kenya

Sub-Saharan African 98.5%
Western Asian & North African 0.7%
Central & South Asian 0.3%
Unassigned 0.5%

She appears to be 1/2 Kikuyu 1/4 Eastern Ugandan and 1/4 ancestry coastal coming from Mombasa county.

Sub-Saharan African 99.9%
Congolese & Southern East African 82.8%
Northern East African 15.3%
West African 0.7%
African Hunter-Gatherer 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.7%
Unassigned 0.1%

His last name is very Congolese he is also Muslim. He has 0.8% Western Asian & North African ancestry perhaps he has a distant Zanzibari slave trader ancestor or he could just be from the coast of Kenya since a Bantu last name of an individual from one country can also be found in another country.

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.3%
Congolese & Southern East African 86.3%
Northern East African 12.2%
West African 0.1%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

Western Asian & North African 0.8%
Iranian, Caucasian & Mesopotamian 0.7%
Peninsular Arab 0.1%

A Kikuyu lady

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%
Congolese & Southern East African 66.9%
Northern East African 29.5%
West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 3.2%

gihanga.rwanda
01-07-2021, 04:36 PM
He has ancestry from the three coastal counties of Kenya ( Mombasa, Kilifi and Kwale )

Sub-Saharan African 72.6%
Western Asian & North African 20.3%
Central & South Asian 5.9%
East Asian & Native American 0.2%
Unassigned 1.0%

Individual from Mombasa I'm not sure what his ethnicity is however, his AC does look very similar to what the Bajuni people have.

Sub-Saharan African 58.8%
Central & South Asian 28.0%
Western Asian & North African 10.8%
East Asian & Native American 0.4%
Unassigned 2.0%

A Digo man from the Mijikenda tribe of Msambweni the south coast of Kenya

Sub-Saharan African 98.5%
Western Asian & North African 0.7%
Central & South Asian 0.3%
Unassigned 0.5%

She appears to be 1/2 Kikuyu 1/4 Eastern Ugandan and 1/4 ancestry coastal coming from Mombasa county.

Sub-Saharan African 99.9%
Congolese & Southern East African 82.8%
Northern East African 15.3%
West African 0.7%
African Hunter-Gatherer 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.7%
Unassigned 0.1%

His last name is very Congolese he is also Muslim. He has 0.8% Western Asian & North African ancestry perhaps he has a distant Zanzibari slave trader ancestor or he could just be from the coast of Kenya since a Bantu last name of an individual from one country can also be found in another country.

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.3%
Congolese & Southern East African 86.3%
Northern East African 12.2%
West African 0.1%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

Western Asian & North African 0.8%
Iranian, Caucasian & Mesopotamian 0.7%
Peninsular Arab 0.1%

A Kikuyu lady

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%
Congolese & Southern East African 66.9%
Northern East African 29.5%
West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 3.2%

I think it’s safe to assume he’s from somewhere in SE Africa since he has some minor NE African ancestry.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-08-2021, 09:35 PM
Zimbabwean - Paternal Haplogroup E-M4254 Maternal Haplogroup L2b2

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 97.4%

Angolan & Congolese 72.3%

Southern East African 20.3%

Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 4.8%

West African 1.4%

Nigerian 0.7%

Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.1%


Luo - Maternal Haplogroup R0a2

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%

Southern East African 87.9%

Northern East African 10.9%

Sudanese 7.5%

Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Broadly Northern East African 1.8%

West African 0.6%

Nigerian 0.2%

Senegambian & Guinean 0.2%

Broadly West African 0.2%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

ThaYamamoto
01-08-2021, 09:50 PM
Zimbabwean - Paternal Haplogroup E-M4254 Maternal Haplogroup L2b2

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 97.4%

Angolan & Congolese 72.3%

Southern East African 20.3%

Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 4.8%

West African 1.4%

Nigerian 0.7%

Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.1%


Luo - Maternal Haplogroup R0a2

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%

Southern East African 87.9%

Northern East African 10.9%

Sudanese 7.5%

Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Broadly Northern East African 1.8%

West African 0.6%

Nigerian 0.2%

Senegambian & Guinean 0.2%

Broadly West African 0.2%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

Very interesting mtdna for the Luo, must be mediated through Nandi ancestry perhaps? Or maybe via some other means...

drobbah
01-08-2021, 10:26 PM
There is a decent amount of cushitic uniparentals found in Western Kenya.On yfull for example there is a Luo E-V32 male sample ( E-Y37091)

ThaYamamoto
01-08-2021, 11:45 PM
There is a decent amount of cushitic uniparentals found in Western Kenya.On yfull for example there is a Luo E-V32 male sample ( E-Y37091)

I didn't know that, I do wonder how it got there. Although I have started to understand that a lot of groups were Luo-ized and perhaps this lineage was intermediated before a cultural/linguistic assimilation took place.

pgbk87
01-09-2021, 01:08 AM
Zimbabwean - Paternal Haplogroup E-M4254 Maternal Haplogroup L2b2

Sub-Saharan Africa 99.9%

Congolese & Southern East African 97.4%

Angolan & Congolese 72.3%

Southern East African 20.3%

Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 4.8%

West African 1.4%

Nigerian 0.7%

Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.1%


Luo - Maternal Haplogroup R0a2

Sub-Saharan Africa 100%

Southern East African 87.9%

Northern East African 10.9%

Sudanese 7.5%

Ethiopian & Eritrean 1.6%

Broadly Northern East African 1.8%

West African 0.6%

Nigerian 0.2%

Senegambian & Guinean 0.2%

Broadly West African 0.2%

Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.6%

The Zimbabwean man has the same uniparental markers as me haha

drobbah
01-09-2021, 02:31 AM
I didn't know that, I do wonder how it got there. Although I have started to understand that a lot of groups were Luo-ized and perhaps this lineage was intermediated before a cultural/linguistic assimilation took place.
There are Luhya samples as well on yfull who are E-V32 & E-M293.It seems these groups have more cushitic uniparentals compared to groups like the Kikuyu who have actual minor cushitic admixture

Justnotyou
01-09-2021, 12:47 PM
There are Luhya samples as well on yfull who are E-V32 & E-M293.It seems these groups have more cushitic uniparentals compared to groups like the Kikuyu who have actual minor cushitic admixture

What I find interesting is the subclades for the Luhya & Luo samples vary enough to indicate to me they're from different sources, & each seem distinct enough to have not come directly from a cushitic community maybe that explains the lack of cushitic admixture in these groups?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V12/

The Luo & Luhya E-V32 variant clades.

drobbah
01-09-2021, 02:32 PM
What I find interesting is the subclades for the Luhya & Luo samples vary enough to indicate to me they're from different sources, & each seem distinct enough to have not come directly from a cushitic community maybe that explains the lack of cushitic admixture in these groups?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V12/

The Luo & Luhya E-V32 variant clades.
The Luhya clades are literally E-Z813; I would go as far as to predict that they descend from men who once spoke an East Cushitic language

ThaYamamoto
01-09-2021, 03:53 PM
The Luhya clades are literally E-Z813; I would go as far as to predict that they descend from men who once spoke an East Cushitic language

In the case of the Luhya it has to be Bukusu who have intermingled with Kalenjin heavily, now far as I know Kalenjin have many Cushitic uniparentals?

drobbah
01-09-2021, 09:28 PM
In the case of the Luhya it has to be Bukusu who have intermingled with Kalenjin heavily, now far as I know Kalenjin have many Cushitic uniparentals?
I couldn't find anything specific to the Kalenjin but there is a study that had Western Nilotics of Kenya at 45% E-M35/M78 with 9% E-V12 (forefather of V32), 18% E-M293 & V22 but not any E-V32.The masai and Luhya do show significant percentages of V32 tho which suggests that East Cushitic men were absorbed by Masai/Kalenjin type PIA looking peoples who were then also absorbed by the Luhya

Justnotyou
01-10-2021, 09:29 AM
I couldn't find anything specific to the Kalenjin but there is a study that had Western Nilotics of Kenya at 45% E-M35/M78 with 9% E-V12 (forefather of V32), 18% E-M293 & V22 but not any E-V32.The masai and Luhya do show significant percentages of V32 tho which suggests that East Cushitic men were absorbed by Masai/Kalenjin type PIA looking peoples who were then also absorbed by the Luhya

Can I get the study, all the articles I have right now with some Nilosaharan haplogroups are https://www.nature.com/articles/5201408 &

Justnotyou
01-10-2021, 09:58 AM
The Luhya clades are literally E-Z813; I would go as far as to predict that they descend from men who once spoke an East Cushitic language

I'm a novice here, the registered users shouldn't confuse you or anyone here, lol I'm junior member till maybe 2022 so thank you for the insightful response. I oversimplified the context of my excerpt by not taking into account the implications of regarding the subclades as distinct enough. Still there is need for more samples to be included.

Isn't E-V12* a proto-cushitic haplogroup, or at least proto-North Cushites like the beja & their ancestors the medjey? So it really wasn't up for debate if these or any E-V32 clades were from Cushites imo, I believe an intermediate group like the Kalenjin Yamamoto or the Pastoral_IA you've described would be more sensible to explain how it permeated into these western Kenyan communities?

Even if it didn't carry any substantial cushitic admixture it probably came with the high KEN_LSA that's usually picked up in your models, No?

drobbah
01-10-2021, 11:07 PM
Isn't E-V12* a proto-cushitic haplogroup, or at least proto-North Cushites like the beja & their ancestors the medjey?

E-V12 and the sub branches of this haplogroup was probably prominent among Egyptians,later migrations of Cushitic speakers and probably early Chadic speakers.



So it really wasn't up for debate if these or any E-V32 clades were from Cushites imo, I believe an intermediate group like the Kalenjin Yamamoto or the Pastoral_IA you've described would be more sensible to explain how it permeated into these western Kenyan communities?

I clearly said in a previous post that E-Z813 which looks to be a solid proto-East Cushitic lineage only made it's way into the Luhya because the Nilotes absorbed these men and they (the Nilotes) were absorbed by the incoming Bantu Luhya.



Even if it didn't carry any substantial cushitic admixture it probably came with the high KEN_LSA that's usually picked up in your models, No?
I wouldn't be surprised if specific sections of the Luhya who descend from recently absorbed Nilo-Hamites have a decent amount of Cushitic ancestry unlike the rest of the Luhya.The Luhya are an interesting case as they have lineages that belong to South Cushites (E-M293) and East Cushites (E-V32) like the Masai

ThaYamamoto
01-11-2021, 01:19 AM
E-V12 and the sub branches of this haplogroup was probably prominent among Egyptians,later migrations of Cushitic speakers and probably early Chadic speakers.


I clearly said in a previous post that E-Z813 which looks to be a solid proto-East Cushitic lineage only made it's way into the Luhya because the Nilotes absorbed these men and they (the Nilotes) were absorbed by the incoming Bantu Luhya.



I wouldn't be surprised if specific sections of the Luhya who descend from recently absorbed Nilo-Hamites have a decent amount of Cushitic ancestry unlike the rest of the Luhya.The Luhya are an interesting case as they have lineages that belong to South Cushites (E-M293) and East Cushites (E-V32) like the Masai

In the case of Bukusu/Webuye Luhyas as mentioned there is the clear Cushitic-link, however I haven't seen evidence for anything more than 2-4% Cushitic ancestry in them. I can't see Maragoli (heavily Nilotic if not the most Nilotic-admixed of all), or Luhyas from Vihiga, Kakamega etc having anything more than noise levels if the Webuye Luhya [i.e. Bukusu] on the g25 barely register any. The only probable link is intermarriage and assimilation of Nandi/Kikuyu/Masai as well as migrants from Uganda all of which we know through oral history and even observations of the British [usually very credible] otherwise the Cushitic component would be far more visible/significant. Now in terms of the Luo peoples exhibiting these uniparentals and even Cushitic ancestral components based on the commercial tests etc, you might very well be on to something. Luo's are odd in that some Luo peoples seem to be barely Nilotic at all [Homa Bay]. Assimilation seems to be the game.

Justnotyou
01-11-2021, 07:22 AM
In the case of Bukusu/Webuye Luhyas as mentioned there is the clear Cushitic-link, however I haven't seen evidence for anything more than 2-4% Cushitic ancestry in them. I can't see Maragoli (heavily Nilotic if not the most Nilotic-admixed of all), or Luhyas from Vihiga, Kakamega etc having anything more than noise levels if the Webuye Luhya [i.e. Bukusu] on the g25 barely register any. The only probable link is intermarriage and assimilation of Nandi/Kikuyu/Masai as well as migrants from Uganda all of which we know through oral history and even observations of the British [usually very credible] otherwise the Cushitic component would be far more visible/significant. Now in terms of the Luo peoples exhibiting these uniparentals and even Cushitic ancestral components based on the commercial tests etc, you might very well be on to something. Luo's are odd in that some Luo peoples seem to be barely Nilotic at all [Homa Bay]. Assimilation seems to be the game.

Kenyan & Tanzanian Luos are even today continually absorbing the Suba-Bantu in the Kavirondo region so the communities that are nearby should undoubtedly be more Bantu.

Their oral accounts even suggest of only three distinct nilotic migrations yet today they have over 30 clans & from their language it's easy to deduce its mostly a Pathola Ugandan Luo dialect. I suspect with more commercialized tests & a larger sample size their will be collaborating evidence of this.

Justnotyou
01-11-2021, 07:39 AM
E-V12 and the sub branches of this haplogroup was probably prominent among Egyptians,later migrations of Cushitic speakers and probably early Chadic speakers.


I clearly said in a previous post that E-Z813 which looks to be a solid proto-East Cushitic lineage only made it's way into the Luhya because the Nilotes absorbed these men and they (the Nilotes) were absorbed by the incoming Bantu Luhya.



I wouldn't be surprised if specific sections of the Luhya who descend from recently absorbed Nilo-Hamites have a decent amount of Cushitic ancestry unlike the rest of the Luhya.The Luhya are an interesting case as they have lineages that belong to South Cushites (E-M293) and East Cushites (E-V32) like the Masai

Yes & that's picked up in spite of the not so good sample size.

I've noticed while I was in Kenya, unlike most of the Northern Kenyan communities the southerners tend to be less endogormous especially the more urban ones, the shift that is currently taking place in these communities can not be understated.

I bet in a few generations the Luhya will be more like the Kikuyu today & both by the turn of this century might become the new Maasais.

Deftextra
01-13-2021, 03:08 AM
My heritage match. My heritage is quite popular among my relatives for some reason. We are likely related on my fathers side:


East Africa: 27.9%
Somali 17.3%
Kenyan 4.4%
Massai 6.2%
West Africa 8.2%
Nigerian 4.0%
Sierra Leonean 2.2%
West African 2.0%

South Asian 21.8%
West Asian 18.0%
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi 10%
West Asian 7.1%

Middle East 19.5%

East Europe 2.1%
Balkan 2.1%

Indigenous Amazonian 1.6%


He tested at My heritage. Uploads tend to give weird results from what I have noticed.

ThaYamamoto
01-22-2021, 02:15 AM
My most recent 23andme match, from Cape Verde, seems a standard Cape Verdean result from what I've seen.

42746

What's interesting is I never score any Senegambian on any test, suggesting no IBS between myself and Senegambian populations and yet me and her share 2 large segments on African portions of our chromosomes. Haven't run a segment calculation yet but will be interesting to see. I guess there is a shared haplotype/IBD segment with Atlantic-Congo peoples and myself that gets lost in most analyses, possibly going some way in explaining my high Afram/Afro-Carribbean number of matches. Will run some oracles on the chromosome positions and see what's up. I could post a hundred of these from Ancestry its crazy lol.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-22-2021, 06:32 PM
My heritage match. My heritage is quite popular among my relatives for some reason. We are likely related on my fathers side:


East Africa: 27.9%
Somali 17.3%
Kenyan 4.4%
Massai 6.2%
West Africa 8.2%
Nigerian 4.0%
Sierra Leonean 2.2%
West African 2.0%

South Asian 21.8%
West Asian 18.0%
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi 10%
West Asian 7.1%

Middle East 19.5%

East Europe 2.1%
Balkan 2.1%

Indigenous Amazonian 1.6%


He tested at My heritage. Uploads tend to give weird results from what I have noticed.

I wonder where the Bantu ancestry in Reer Xmars comes from I'm guessing its from Swahili merchants. Was common for Swahili merchants in the past settle in Mogadishu & along Somalia's Coast and marry into the Reer Xamar community?

The new feature genetic groups I don't know what this shows does it show historical genetic groups an individual matches? Portugal is highlighted on mine the Portuguese did rule Mombasa violently from 1593 to 1729 I wonder if that could be why its highlighted :noidea:

42756

My-Heritage DNA results from the 23andme raw data I uploaded.

42755

AFRICA
Kenyan
48.9%
Eastern Africa (Rwanda, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Burundi)
Nigerian
28.2%
Maasai
17.3%
Central African
1.4%

ASIA
West Asian
4.2%

ADDITIONAL GENETIC GROUPS
Suriname, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago and Africa (Nigeria, Liberia, Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana)
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Croatia and Turkey

drobbah
01-22-2021, 06:42 PM
I wonder where the Bantu ancestry in Reer Xmars comes from I'm guessing its from Swahili merchants. Was common for Swahili merchants in the past settle in Mogadishu & along Somalia's Coast and marry into the Reer Xamar community?

The new feature genetic groups I don't know what this shows does it show historical genetic groups an individual matches? Portugal is highlighted on mine the Portuguese did rule Mombasa violently from 1593 to 1729 I wonder if that could be why its highlighted :noidea:

42756

My-Heritage DNA results from the 23andme raw data I uploaded.

42755

AFRICA
Kenyan
48.9%
Eastern Africa (Rwanda, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Burundi)
Nigerian
28.2%
Maasai
17.3%
Central African
1.4%

ASIA
West Asian
4.2%

ADDITIONAL GENETIC GROUPS
Suriname, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago and Africa (Nigeria, Liberia, Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana)
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Croatia and Turkey
I think there are Swahili speakers on the Banadir coast and on an island close to Kismayo.Tbh Southern Somalia's coast can be considered historically to be an extension of the Swahili coast

Deftextra
01-23-2021, 03:37 AM
I wonder where the Bantu ancestry in Reer Xmars comes from I'm guessing its from Swahili merchants. Was common for Swahili merchants in the past settle in Mogadishu & along Somalia's Coast and marry into the Reer Xamar community?

The new feature genetic groups I don't know what this shows does it show historical genetic groups an individual matches? Portugal is highlighted on mine the Portuguese did rule Mombasa violently from 1593 to 1729 I wonder if that could be why its highlighted :noidea:

42756

My-Heritage DNA results from the 23andme raw data I uploaded.

42755

AFRICA
Kenyan
48.9%
Eastern Africa (Rwanda, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Burundi)
Nigerian
28.2%
Maasai
17.3%
Central African
1.4%

ASIA
West Asian
4.2%

ADDITIONAL GENETIC GROUPS
Suriname, Haiti, Trinidad and Tobago and Africa (Nigeria, Liberia, Cote D'Ivoire and Ghana)
Spain, Portugal, Italy, Croatia and Turkey


I am not sure to what extend, but I believe there always has been population movement from the north to the south of the coast in particular. For example there are Swahili speaking Benadari in Baarwa, and my mothers clan also has a connection to Tanzania, since there was a migration of the clan to the mrima coast in the 18th and 17th century who are no locally referred to as Shonvi or Jomvu if I remember correctly.

There is also historical evidence of my mothers clan in particular migrating from Yemen to pate via Brava around the sixteenth century (according to the locals there).

drobbah
01-23-2021, 01:09 PM
I think there are Swahili speakers on the Banadir coast and on an island close to Kismayo.Tbh Southern Somalia's coast can be considered historically to be an extension of the Swahili coast
It is also possible some of their Bantu admixture came from Somalia's large Bantu community which has been there for generations.The estimates I seen, they make up 10% of Somalia's (Somaliland excluded) population.The Bantus are diverse themselves with the Bajuni basically being Swahili people while others originally hail from as far South as Tanzania.

pgbk87
01-23-2021, 07:15 PM
It is also possible some of their Bantu admixture came from Somalia's large Bantu community which has been there for generations.The estimates I seen, they make up 10% of Somalia's (Somaliland excluded) population.The Bantus are diverse themselves with the Bajuni basically being Swahili people while others originally hail from as far South as Tanzania.

I met a few Bajunis when I was in Watamu, Kenya. Ridiculously pretty place by the way. The rock formations, cove beaches, quartz/coral mixed sand and water color are world class.

The Bajunis I saw looked Somali-admixed and some could very well pass as Somali. They looked minimally Bantu influenced.

drobbah
01-23-2021, 07:26 PM
I met a few Bajunis when I was in Watamu, Kenya. Ridiculously pretty place by the way. The rock formations, cove beaches, quartz/coral mixed sand and water color are world class.

The Bajunis I saw looked Somali-admixed and some could very well pass as Somali. They looked minimally Bantu influenced.
I met only one in my life, he did some work on my family's house couple years back in Somaliland, dude was complaining about the marginalization of his people by the local Somalis in Kismayo but he looked like those Afro-Arabs from Hadhramawt and Saudi.They are probably a very heterogenous bunch

ThaYamamoto
01-23-2021, 10:12 PM
My most recent 23andme match, from Cape Verde, seems a standard Cape Verdean result from what I've seen.

42746

What's interesting is I never score any Senegambian on any test, suggesting no IBS between myself and Senegambian populations and yet me and her share 2 large segments on African portions of our chromosomes. Haven't run a segment calculation yet but will be interesting to see. I guess there is a shared haplotype/IBD segment with Atlantic-Congo peoples and myself that gets lost in most analyses, possibly going some way in explaining my high Afram/Afro-Carribbean number of matches. Will run some oracles on the chromosome positions and see what's up. I could post a hundred of these from Ancestry its crazy lol.

Will run the segment analysis a little later just getting the HapMap calculator to work as it includes a YRI and LWK component which is perfect. Here's a few more of my Afram (and one Caribbean from Antigua) matches on 23andme (all of whom are haplogroup L2 ladies). I don't match any dudes on 23andme but there are a few on Ancestry.

42815 - Afram - Texas roots

42816 - Afram - Texas roots

42820- Afro-Caribbean - Antigua roots

42818 - Afram - Virginia and the Carolina's roots

42819 - Afram - Unspecified roots possibly Texas or Virginia waiting on a response

gihanga.rwanda
01-23-2021, 10:54 PM
I’ve never met any Bajunis myself but from what I can tell, most of them don’t look very different from other native northern Swahili speakers, ranging from a typical coastal Eastern Bantu to a more admixed “Afro-Arab” phenotype. That being said, a study from a few years back (see below) did find a few individuals who identified as Swahili but clustered with Somalis, which suggests the recent/ongoing integration of Somali or other East Cushitic (e.g. Orma, etc.) individuals into established Swahili communities in Kenya and perhaps Somalia.

You can’t find too many videos of Bajunis but I found a few on YouTube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kP56xv1NP_Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zOSQQibW8RQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOpSUxefiaY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgHYsevqXs8

^ The girl on the left is the native Bajuni speaker. I am not sure about the guy’s ethnicity, but if I had to guess, I’d bet he’s Kikuyu.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcqxMLYTEQA

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322259881_The_Comoros_Show_the_Earliest_Austronesi an_Gene_Flow_into_the_Swahili_Corridor


Whereas Comor-ians cluster together genetically according to their respec-tive islands, the three Kenyan Swahili communities areundifferentiated and form a single cluster. Nine Swahili in-dividuals fall outside this main cluster and instead groupwith Somali individuals and perhaps reflecting recent mi-grants (Figure S3). These individuals are also outliers inthe PCA plot and were excluded from subsequent analysesof the Swahili because these data would bias analyses onpast demographic processes. However, we note that theyrepresent a non-negligible number of individuals in oursampling (9 out of 91), suggesting a relatively importantnumber of recently integrated individuals of Somali origin,many of whom are present in Kenya,56into Swahiligroups.”


The Swahili populations have onemajor component (dark green in Figure 2) that is alsopresent in other Bantu-speaking groups, but in higherpercentages, similar those in South Africa. Other minorancestries are shared with populations from the Horn ofAfrica (brown gradient) and western Bantu speakers (lightgreen). No Asian or Middle Eastern genetic ancestry isdistinguishable in the Kenyan Swahili, highlighting theindigenous African origins of the Swahili people. Thisabsence is the main difference between the Kenyan Swahiliand Comorians, who do share genetic ancestry withMiddle Eastern (purple gradient: 6%–7%) and IslandSoutheast Asian individuals (yellow gradient: 8%–9%).

I found it interesting that this sample group of Swahilis appear to be overwhelmingly Bantu and not as cosmopolitan as some of the Swahili individuals I’ve seen on 23andme. This isn’t really surprising, I think we should expect to see some substructure in the Swahili, given their recent history and widespread distribution.

Is Bantu ancestry present in the Reer Xamar or only Bravanese? The minor (10-20%) presence in the latter could be attributed to an early and more generic Swahili founding population (possibly related to the Bajuni or a similar population) that would later receive gene flow from neighboring Somalis and Arabian/South Asian merchants, etc.

drobbah
01-23-2021, 11:23 PM
I think the vast majority of the Cushitic ancestry in the Banadiri is probably of Raxanweyn Af-Maay Maay origin and other related Omo-Tana speakers not actual af-maxay tidhi Somali ancestry from the North.

I think it was only in the middle ages when the first powerful Somali groups from the North (Somaliland) took hold of Somalia's coast for the first time like the Ajuuraan and other succeeding waves of pastoralist Somali clans like the Hiraab (Hawiye) with the last wave of Somalis like the Darood who pushed the Orma deep into Kenya and continuing their own expansion into modern Kenya up untill the British arrived.

The Darood expansion is so recent that the Somali spoken in Garissa is more similar to what is now being spoken in Jigjiga (Ethiopia),Hargeisa (Somaliland) and Djibouti compared to the distinct dialect of Banadir's coast who's Af-Maxay Somalis have been settled there for many centuries.

ThaYamamoto
01-24-2021, 12:06 AM
I’ve never met any Bajunis myself but from what I can tell, most of them don’t look very different from other native northern Swahili speakers, ranging from a typical coastal Eastern Bantu to a more admixed “Afro-Arab” phenotype. That being said, a study from a few years back (see below) did find a few individuals who identified as Swahili but clustered with Somalis, which suggests the recent/ongoing integration of Somali or other East Cushitic (e.g. Orma, etc.) individuals into established Swahili communities in Kenya and perhaps Somalia.

You can’t find too many videos of Bajunis but I found a few on YouTube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kP56xv1NP_Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zOSQQibW8RQ

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yOpSUxefiaY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgHYsevqXs8

^ The girl on the left is the native Bajuni speaker. I am not sure about the guy’s ethnicity, but if I had to guess, I’d bet he’s Kikuyu.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcqxMLYTEQA

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322259881_The_Comoros_Show_the_Earliest_Austronesi an_Gene_Flow_into_the_Swahili_Corridor





I found it interesting that this sample group of Swahilis appear to be overwhelmingly Bantu and not as cosmopolitan as some of the Swahili individuals I’ve seen on 23andme. This isn’t really surprising, I think we should expect to see some substructure in the Swahili, given their recent history and widespread distribution.

Is Bantu ancestry present in the Reer Xamar or only Bravanese? The minor (10-20%) presence in the latter could be attributed to an early and more generic Swahili founding population (possibly related to the Bajuni or a similar population) that would later receive gene flow from neighboring Somalis and Arabian/South Asian merchants, etc.

Yeah he's kikuyu lol...dude looks exactly like crenshaw rapper Buddy...who doesn't look Afram hisself...weird.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-24-2021, 06:08 PM
I met a few Bajunis when I was in Watamu, Kenya. Ridiculously pretty place by the way. The rock formations, cove beaches, quartz/coral mixed sand and water color are world class.

The Bajunis I saw looked Somali-admixed and some could very well pass as Somali. They looked minimally Bantu influenced.

Yeah here in Mombasa almost all the Bajunis ive seen look Bantu-Arab & also Bantu + Somali + Yemeni which is what makes them distinct from the local Swahili community clans in Mombasa like the one im from the ( Wa-Jomvu), Wa-Chagamwe, Wa-Kilindini, Wa-Mvita & Wa-Tangana who most of the time look pure Bantu.

The Bajunis themselves consider themselves distinct from other Swahili communities despite many similarities we have with them.

A few of my Bajuni friends also have this Cushitic + Yemeni + Significant Bantu phenotype I'd like to post their pictures and discuss it further but I guess ill just have to follow the rules of Anthrogenica.

Deftextra
01-25-2021, 04:16 AM
It is also possible some of their Bantu admixture came from Somalia's large Bantu community which has been there for generations.The estimates I seen, they make up 10% of Somalia's (Somaliland excluded) population.The Bantus are diverse themselves with the Bajuni basically being Swahili people while others originally hail from as far South as Tanzania.

Yeah. My guess is that most of our bantu admixture comes via our other ancestry and we likely already had bantu admixture before we obtained our Somali admixture, which my guess came from a later events. Also, the majority of us have recent Somali admixture (grand mothers and fathers), which is very common.

Deftextra
01-25-2021, 04:19 AM
Yeah here in Mombasa almost all the Bajunis ive seen look Bantu-Arab & also Bantu + Somali + Yemeni which is what makes them distinct from the local Swahili community clans in Mombasa like the one im from the ( Wa-Jomvu), Wa-Chagamwe, Wa-Kilindini, Wa-Mvita & Wa-Tangana who most of the time look pure Bantu.

The Bajunis themselves consider themselves distinct from other Swahili communities despite many similarities we have with them.

A few of my Bajuni friends also have this Cushitic + Yemeni + Significant Bantu phenotype I'd like to post their pictures and discuss it further but I guess ill just have to follow the rules of Anthrogenica.

I have seen a few Banjuni results. They are very similar to Benadiris minus our Cushitic Admixutre. If it wasn't for our Cushitic admixture, we would almost be identical.

drobbah
01-25-2021, 11:21 AM
Yeah. My guess is that most of our bantu admixture comes via our other ancestry and we likely already had bantu admixture before we obtained our Somali admixture, which my guess came from a later events. Also, the majority of us have recent Somali admixture (grand mothers and fathers), which is very common.
You think prior to the last three generations the Benadiris didn't mix with the local Somalis & Raxanweyn (Tunni for example)?

Deftextra
01-25-2021, 03:55 PM
You think prior to the last three generations the Benadiris didn't mix with the local Somalis & Raxanweyn (Tunni for example)?

No. Most likely we did, considering our maternal lineages is mostly local to the area. However, after independence especially, there has been allot more intermixing with local Somalis from what I have heard and can make out. My guess is this directly coincides with the urbanization of towns like Mogadishu in the last century.

drobbah
01-25-2021, 04:37 PM
No. Most likely we did, considering our maternal lineages is mostly local to the area. However, after independence especially, there has been allot more intermixing with local Somalis from what I have heard and can make out. My guess is this directly coincides with the urbanization of towns like Mogadishu in the last century.
From the 23andme results I've seen from Southern Somalis & Raxanweyn is that many of them have higher frequencies of trace South Asian & West Asian ancestry compared to other Somalis.Some of that could be from Banadiri females especially the old coastal clans but also the interior clans could have been impacted by Benadiri-like Sheekhash/Sheekhaal individuals could have also spread said ancestry in the interior.It probably was a bi-directional geneflow, the biyomaal sultan that signed a treaty with the Italians looked very Benadiri admixed himself.

Deftextra
01-26-2021, 09:55 PM
From the 23andme results I've seen from Southern Somalis & Raxanweyn is that many of them have higher frequencies of trace South Asian & West Asian ancestry compared to other Somalis.Some of that could be from Banadiri females especially the old coastal clans but also the interior clans could have been impacted by Benadiri-like Sheekhash/Sheekhaal individuals could have also spread said ancestry in the interior.It probably was a bi-directional geneflow, the biyomaal sultan that signed a treaty with the Italians looked very Benadiri admixed himself.

Yeah. I have many Somali matches. The ones I match closest with almost always have minor south/west Asian ancestry.

I have also read somewhere that it was common for bandari clans to form alliances with the main clans through marriage in return for things like protection.

Deftextra
01-27-2021, 10:29 PM
Distant Myheritage match from the Comoros Islands:
Surprising how similar we are.


42891
42892

East Africa 30.1%
Kenyan 30.1%
Central African 3.8%
West Africa 17.9%
Nigerian 15.2%
West African2.7%
South Asia 15.4%%
South Asian 13.0%
Nepali 2.4%
West Asia 1.9%
East Asia 2.0%
Filipino, Indonesian and Malay 1.0%
Chinese and Vietnamese 1.0%
Middle-Eastern 21.7%
Europe 1.8%
Ashkenazi jew 1.8%

gihanga.rwanda
01-27-2021, 11:42 PM
Distant Myheritage match from the Comoros Islands:
Surprising how similar we are.


42891
42892

East Africa 30.1%
Kenyan 30.1%
Central African 3.8%
West Africa 17.9%
Nigerian 15.2%
West African2.7%
South Asia 19.3%
South Asian 13.0%
Nepali 2.4%
West Asia 1.9%
East Asia 2.0%
Filipino, Indonesian and Malay 1.0%
Chinese and Vietnamese 1.0%


Are those your results in the screenshot?

Edit: Do you know what’s up with the second set of results? The bold text only adds up to 75%.

Deftextra
01-28-2021, 05:03 PM
Are those your results in the screenshot?

Edit: Do you know what’s up with the second set of results? The bold text only adds up to 75%.

Thanks for pointing that out. Her results are on the right and I forgot to add her Middle-eastern percentage.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-28-2021, 08:43 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917

drobbah
01-28-2021, 08:50 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally[ from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917
Have they tested or is this just based off phenotype?

Deftextra
01-28-2021, 09:02 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally[ from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917

Could be that they look pseudo Cushitic. The My heritage match from the Comoros looks also very Cushitic like but has no Cushitic admixture in her results.

I have not yet seen Banjuni results with Cushitic admixture, but would not be surprised if there are some who do, since we obviously do not have many Banjuni results.

drobbah
01-28-2021, 09:29 PM
They look like regular Afro-Arabs (Bantu-Arabian mixes) imo except the third dude.Guy looks like your average highland Habesha/ Northern shifted Oromo lmao.I highly doubt many Bajunis have Somali ancestry considering the Darood,Dir and Samaale Somalis are relatively recent to Jubaland (been there only for the last 2 centuries) plus Somalis tend to be very xenophobic and discriminatory when it comes to intermixing with Bantus.The regular Bantus of the south themselves probably don't carry much Somali ancestry just like the Bajuni.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
01-29-2021, 04:50 AM
Have they tested or is this just based off phenotype?

Yup based on their phenotype in my opinion

gihanga.rwanda
01-29-2021, 06:05 PM
Here are the Bajunis who appear to have Somali or other Cushitic related admixture, all of them are originally from Lamu.

42914
42915
42916
42917

I can see why one could mistake these guys for Somali at first glance or from a distance but I agree with drobbah. If I met these guys in person, I’d probably mistake number 1 for Sudanese Arab/Nubian and number 3 for Habesha. The other two look more typically Swahili “Arab”, especially number 4 with his swag... he looks like a lot of the hipster guys I met in Mombasa on my last visit to Kenya. lol

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-01-2021, 01:23 PM
My-Heritage match she gets 19.1% Ethiopian Jewish plus 14.6% Kenyan and 3.3% Sierra Leonean I wonder what ethnicity & tribe she might be.

Africa
37.0%
East Africa
33.7%
Kenyan
14.6%
Ethiopian Jewish
19.1%
West Africa
3.3%
Sierra Leonean
3.3%

Middle East
37.8%

Asia
24.2%
West Asia
15.6%
Mizrahi Jewish - Iranian/Iraqi
15.6%
South Asian
8.6%

Europe
1.0%
Ashkenazi Jewish
1.0%

ThaYamamoto
02-05-2021, 10:21 PM
Found this on my phone - Congolese from Kinshasa relative match. Almost 100% Cameroonian/Congolese

43069

mpatsibihugu89
02-05-2021, 11:43 PM
Found this on my phone - Congolese from Kinshasa relative match. Almost 100% Cameroonian/Congolese

43069

Great. Their cameroon/congo component is good. Have you seen anyone do well on the 'Angolan & Congolese' from 23andme?

ThaYamamoto
02-06-2021, 12:20 AM
Great. Their cameroon/congo component is good. Have you seen anyone do well on the 'Angolan & Congolese' from 23andme?

I haven't, I did see an Angolan on reddit once but I think she hit around 70-80%. Same with a girl from DRC but I'm can't recall fully. The problem with 23andme imo is they don't include any Cameroonians which is a big mistake.

mpatsibihugu89
02-06-2021, 06:06 AM
I haven't, I did see an Angolan on reddit once but I think she hit around 70-80%. Same with a girl from DRC but I'm can't recall fully. The problem with 23andme imo is they don't include any Cameroonians which is a big mistake.

True...i have seen some cameroonian get assigned recent ancestor location thru Broadly West Africa. So weird.
43086

Deftextra
02-06-2021, 02:39 PM
Distant AncestryDNA Ethiopian match. His name is Amharic, not sure about his ethnicity.
43093

ThaYamamoto
02-06-2021, 02:57 PM
Distant AncestryDNA Ethiopian match. His name is Amharic, not sure about his ethnicity.
43093

Wow he must be virtually identical to the reference sample

drobbah
02-06-2021, 02:58 PM
My father has a bunch of pure Oromo matches there but they all score 40-50% Somali.I assume the reference sample is Tigray or Amhara

Deftextra
02-06-2021, 07:45 PM
My father has a bunch of pure Oromo matches there but they all score 40-50% Somali.I assume the reference sample is Tigray or Amhara

I recently discovered that there are Benadiri with Amhara great grand mothers. I am not sure how common this is, but my guess is that our Ethiopian percentage is not entirely false, but mostly likely over-inflated, because we are mixed with populations who have overlapping deep ancestry which throws off many calculators.

drobbah
02-06-2021, 07:58 PM
I recently discovered that there are Benadiri with Amhara great grand mothers. I am not sure how common this is, but my guess is that our Ethiopian percentage is not entirely false, but mostly likely over-inflated, because we are mixed with populations who have overlapping deep ancestry which throws off many calculators.
That's very weird, especially for southerners like Benadiris who are extremely far away from the highlands main population centers.I haven't read any historical interactions between the central and northern Ethiopian highlands and South Somalia besides the presence of the Orma Oromos in the South at one point.I have heard that Eritreans moved to South Somalia during the Italian colonization tho and vice versa

Deftextra
02-06-2021, 08:18 PM
That's very weird, especially for southerners like Benadiris who are extremely far away from the highlands main population centers.I haven't read any historical interactions between the central and northern Ethiopian highlands and South Somalia besides the presence of the Orma Oromos in the South at one point.I have heard that Eritreans moved to South Somalia during the Italian colonization tho and vice versa

Yeah, what I was thinking as well. My first thought was that it must have come during the Italian period, but your guess is as best as mine. I have met exactly 3 people who claim have such ancestry. I also have been told a story by my grand mother of her grand father travelling to a mountains area deep inland and marrying a local there, she explicitly stated that she was not Somali, but did not know here ethnicity.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-13-2021, 04:06 PM
My 23andme DNA relative his Y haplogroup is E-M78 his Sudanese % is also very high

Sub-Saharan African 84.3%

Northern East African 50.3%
Sudanese 50.2%
Broadly Northern East African 0.1%

Congolese & Southern East African 31.5%
Angolan & Congolese 15.0%
Southern East African 13.6%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 2.9%

West African 1.2%
Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.7%
Nigerian 0.1%
Senegambian & Guinean 0.0%
Broadly West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.3%

Western Asian & North Africa 14.6%

Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 13.1%
Peninsular Arab 13.1%
Northern West Asian 0.8%
Cypriot 0.8%
North African 0.5%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 0.2%

Central & South Asian 1.0%

Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%

Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%
Southern Indian Subgroup 0.2%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.6%

Unassigned 0.1%

mpatsibihugu89
02-14-2021, 12:50 AM
My 23andme DNA relative his Y haplogroup is E-M78 his Sudanese % is also very high

Sub-Saharan African 84.3%

Northern East African 50.3%
Sudanese 50.2%
Broadly Northern East African 0.1%

Congolese & Southern East African 31.5%
Angolan & Congolese 15.0%
Southern East African 13.6%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 2.9%

West African 1.2%
Ghanaian, Liberian & Sierra Leonean 0.7%
Nigerian 0.1%
Senegambian & Guinean 0.0%
Broadly West African 0.4%
Broadly Sub-Saharan African 1.3%

Western Asian & North Africa 14.6%

Arab, Egyptian & Levantine 13.1%
Peninsular Arab 13.1%
Northern West Asian 0.8%
Cypriot 0.8%
North African 0.5%
Broadly Western Asian & North African 0.2%

Central & South Asian 1.0%

Central Asian, Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%

Northern Indian & Pakistani 0.2%
Southern Indian Subgroup 0.2%
Broadly Central & South Asian 0.6%

Unassigned 0.1%

What peoples does he identify with? Very Interesting breakdown.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-14-2021, 10:15 AM
What peoples does he identify with? Very Interesting breakdown.

I dont know but I'm guessing that he is Tanzanian because his last name is commonly found in Tanzania plus also in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

swhl
02-23-2021, 09:41 AM
Uploaded my FTDNA results to MyHeritage since all the advanced features are free for everyone this week! Again very logical because of my country's history but the percentages are extremely different from FamilyTreeDNA. Very impressed that they were able to pinpoint the Comoros precisely.
43465
43466
43467
43468

Tsakhur
02-23-2021, 12:59 PM
Uploaded my FTDNA results to MyHeritage since all the advanced features are free for everyone this week! Again very logical because of my country's history but the percentages are extremely different from FamilyTreeDNA. Very impressed that they were able to pinpoint the Comoros precisely.
43465
43466
43467
43468

Wow you have minor East Asian (Philippine-Indonesia-Malaysia) ancestry! Is that common for Comorians? What's the highest East Asian that a Comorian can score? Moreover, how common is it for Comorians to score South Asian?

Brwn_trd
02-23-2021, 01:34 PM
Wow you have minor East Asian (Philippine-Indonesia-Malaysia) ancestry! Is that common for Comorians? What's the highest East Asian that a Comorian can score? Moreover, how common is it for Comorians to score South Asian?

Could be related to Madagascar? They are not that far apart and there is history of maritime contact.

swhl
02-23-2021, 02:59 PM
Wow you have minor East Asian (Philippine-Indonesia-Malaysia) ancestry! Is that common for Comorians? What's the highest East Asian that a Comorian can score? Moreover, how common is it for Comorians to score South Asian?

SEA is relatively common for Comorians, we're very close to Madagascar and traded/intermarried with them. Some studies also say that the Austronesian ancestors of the Malagasies came in the Comoros Archipelago first before going to Madagascar, meaning the SEA component is older in our country.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929717304640
The highest percentage for a Comorian would be 13-15 something percent with 7-10% on average. The only ones who would score more would be on the island of Mayotte, they have a very great history of trade with Madagascar and their culture is very much implanted there, more than in the other islands. A great part of their population speak Shibushi which is a dialect of Malagasy. Same for South Asian, we've been greatly influenced by Indian culture just like the rest of the Swahili Coast, they were great merchants and travelled all over East Africa so it isn't surprising or unusual, actually most of us do score it.

Tsakhur
02-23-2021, 03:23 PM
SEA is relatively common for Comorians, we're very close to Madagascar and traded/intermarried with them. Some studies also say that the Austronesian ancestors of the Malagasies came in the Comoros Archipelago first before going to Madagascar, meaning the SEA component is older in our country.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929717304640
The highest percentage for a Comorian would be 13-15 something percent with 7-10% on average. The only ones who would score more would be on the island of Mayotte, they have a very great history of trade with Madagascar and their culture is very much implanted there, more than in the other islands. A great part of their population speak Shibushi which is a dialect of Malagasy. Same for South Asian, we've been greatly influenced by Indian culture just like the rest of the Swahili Coast, they were great merchants and travelled all over East Africa so it isn't surprising or unusual, actually most of us do score it.

Very interesting.

Are there Comorians who virtually don't score any SE Asian? Do you know if ethnic Swahilis from Kenya, Tanzania (including Zanzibar) and probably Northern Mozambique also have SE Asian ancestry?

Off topic, can Comorians understand and also speak the Swahili language spoken in Kenya and Tanzania? Also I heard that the locals in Comoros have separate languages from Swahili?

swhl
02-23-2021, 05:39 PM
Very interesting.

Are there Comorians who virtually don't score any SE Asian? Do you know if ethnic Swahilis from Kenya, Tanzania (including Zanzibar) and probably Northern Mozambique also have SE Asian ancestry?

Off topic, can Comorians understand and also speak the Swahili language spoken in Kenya and Tanzania? Also I heard that the locals in Comoros have separate languages from Swahili?

I honestly don't think that's possible. All the Comorians who posted their results on the internet have minor SE Asian ancestry, all my Comorian matches also have it. I haven't seem a lot of results from Zanzibaris or coastal Kenyans (which really is a shame) but from what I know it's not as common as us. The ones who had interactions with Comorian merchants may have it, a lot of coastal Somalis have little SE Asian admixture due to that, I know a Benadiri who found Comorian ancestors and had little Austronesian DNA.

Shikomori and Swahili are closely related languages, a LOT of Comorian vocabulary is derived from swahili/pokomo/mijikenda and we share ancestral roots with them, we just decided to leave the coast and created our own distinct language on our islands. Some people say we basically had the same dialect as the Zanzibaris until the 12th century, there also are old manuscripts (18-19th century) saying that Zanzibaris and Comorians did not have any trouble understanding each other at one point. It's also interesting to point out that Swahili was one of our government's languages until as late as the 20th century, we slowly started to abandon it for French.
As a Comorian who speaks Shingazidja I understand and recognize lots of words when I hear swahili and I heard it's the same for them, we don't really have trouble communicating but the differences particularly grammatically are clear. I'd say both languages are cousins, same influences (arabic, persian, indian) and a lot of vocabulary in common which makes comprehension from both sides very easy.

Deftextra
02-24-2021, 12:05 PM
I honestly don't think that's possible. All the Comorians who posted their results on the internet have minor SE Asian ancestry, all my Comorian matches also have it. I haven't seem a lot of results from Zanzibaris or coastal Kenyans (which really is a shame) but from what I know it's not as common as us. The ones who had interactions with Comorian merchants may have it, a lot of coastal Somalis have little SE Asian admixture due to that, I know a Benadiri who found Comorian ancestors and had little Austronesian DNA.

Shikomori and Swahili are closely related languages, a LOT of Comorian vocabulary is derived from swahili/pokomo/mijikenda and we share ancestral roots with them, we just decided to leave the coast and created our own distinct language on our islands. Some people say we basically had the same dialect as the Zanzibaris until the 12th century, there also are old manuscripts (18-19th century) saying that Zanzibaris and Comorians did not have any trouble understanding each other at one point. It's also interesting to point out that Swahili was one of our government's languages until as late as the 20th century, we slowly started to abandon it for French.
As a Comorian who speaks Shingazidja I understand and recognize lots of words when I hear swahili and I heard it's the same for them, we don't really have trouble communicating but the differences particularly grammatically are clear. I'd say both languages are cousins, same influences (arabic, persian, indian) and a lot of vocabulary in common which makes comprehension from both sides very easy.

Yeah, small amounts of SE-Asian/E-Asian is very common among us, but because of our mixture, it's quite difficult to know from which ancestry this is mediated from. My guess is, it comes from a mixture of all our ancestries, and can vary from person to person and clan to clan.

Angoliga
02-24-2021, 04:31 PM
Interesting results from a half maternal Zagawah (Sudanese)/Oromo and paternal Kakwa (South-Sudanese) Ancestry match:

I'm guessing she's related from my maternal side since my mother's a Ugandan Kakwa

https://i.imgur.com/YtBJJUn.png

Had to ask in PM for the rest of her results, Ethiopia & Eritriea 25%, Somalia 5%, they were hidden when viewing shared results for some reason (a privacy feature?)

Aside from the direct Oromo-related ancestry, fractionally I'm guessing part of the "Ethiopia & Eritriea" is being rendered from Zagawah-related ancestry - as well as part of her "Senegal" affinity being somehow Sahelian derived for Zagawah.



Some other observations (*taken with a grain of salt of course):


As seen with other Nilotic matches on Ancestry (I believe this is the 3rd or 4th), there's a pattern of either moderate "Senegal" or "Mali" affinities, presumably sahelian for their deeper West-African affinity?


Oddly in this person's case, her Sudanese Zagawah-related ancestry appears to be rendered as "Senegal"? One would think the Mali affinity would be higher for her Zagawah-related ancestry since "Mali (https://imgur.com/v3LMLSM)" on Ancestry geographically encompasses neighboring Chad (where Zagawah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaghawa_people)are heavily found).


- this might be a marginal error on Ancestry's part; they've left out labeling Chad in their description for "Mali" despite it being geographically circled -- only the following nations are mentioned ("Burkina Faso, Guinea, Mali, Sierra Leone, Cote D'Ivoire")


Also peculiar, unlike results from other Nilotes, her Nilo-Saharan admixture from Zagawah-related ancestry isn't rendered as Khoisan, Aka & Mbuti Peoples (https://imgur.com/t73UPZZ) and Eastern Bantu Peoples (https://imgur.com/2U9TQHK), as was the case with nilotes from South-Sudan and Uganda (Dinka, Kakwa etc). I'm curious what sample groups were included in the database for these clusters.

Ajeje Brazorf
02-24-2021, 07:25 PM
I honestly don't think that's possible. All the Comorians who posted their results on the internet have minor SE Asian ancestry, all my Comorian matches also have it. I haven't seem a lot of results from Zanzibaris or coastal Kenyans (which really is a shame) but from what I know it's not as common as us. The ones who had interactions with Comorian merchants may have it, a lot of coastal Somalis have little SE Asian admixture due to that, I know a Benadiri who found Comorian ancestors and had little Austronesian DNA.

Shikomori and Swahili are closely related languages, a LOT of Comorian vocabulary is derived from swahili/pokomo/mijikenda and we share ancestral roots with them, we just decided to leave the coast and created our own distinct language on our islands. Some people say we basically had the same dialect as the Zanzibaris until the 12th century, there also are old manuscripts (18-19th century) saying that Zanzibaris and Comorians did not have any trouble understanding each other at one point. It's also interesting to point out that Swahili was one of our government's languages until as late as the 20th century, we slowly started to abandon it for French.
As a Comorian who speaks Shingazidja I understand and recognize lots of words when I hear swahili and I heard it's the same for them, we don't really have trouble communicating but the differences particularly grammatically are clear. I'd say both languages are cousins, same influences (arabic, persian, indian) and a lot of vocabulary in common which makes comprehension from both sides very easy.

Could you share your scaled Global25 coordinates? It'd be interesting to see the results of Comorians.

swhl
02-24-2021, 11:11 PM
Could you share your scaled Global25 coordinates? It'd be interesting to see the results of Comorians.

How do I do that?

Angoliga
02-25-2021, 01:48 AM
How do I do that?

Hi swhl, welcome to the forum!

If interested in getting your G25 cords, send your request and autosomal genotype data (from either AncestryDNA, FTDNA, LivingDNA, MyHeritage, 23andMe etc.) to [email protected] and send money via PayPal to the same e-mail address" (current price is $12 USD). More info on how to use G25 can be found from the creator, here (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html).

We also have an all Africa G25 PCA thread with members on the forum compared against modern and ancient samples, it would be great to have a first Comorian!

- no pressure though

mpatsibihugu89
02-26-2021, 10:03 PM
Erithrean Tigre paternal E-m293 & Kunama maternal L4b2a2a

43561

Erithrean Tigrinya paternal E-m293 & Tigray maternal K1a

43562

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
02-27-2021, 02:15 AM
Ethiopian ( 3/4 from the Ogaden region & 1/4 Harari )
43573

Bravanese?

https://youtu.be/6IUx-BhC-vs

Adam A
02-27-2021, 03:27 PM
A half Nigerian-American relative

https://i.gyazo.com/012531fe6283844036907811cf4aa436.png

NetNomad
02-27-2021, 08:33 PM
Erithrean Tigre paternal E-m293 & Kunama maternal L4b2a2a

43561

Hmm, I expected Kunamas to be more mixed with Habeshas, but it looks like they are autosomally closer to Sudanese populations (either North or South)?


Ethiopian ( 3/4 from the Ogaden region & 1/4 Harari )
43573

Looks like he is part Malagasy or Comorian. Harar region has some exotic trace ancestry. The green South Asian cluster also shows up there occasionally.

swhl
03-03-2021, 05:36 PM
Hi swhl, welcome to the forum!

If interested in getting your G25 cords, send your request and autosomal genotype data (from either AncestryDNA, FTDNA, LivingDNA, MyHeritage, 23andMe etc.) to [email protected] and send money via PayPal to the same e-mail address" (current price is $12 USD). More info on how to use G25 can be found from the creator, here (https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html).

We also have an all Africa G25 PCA thread with members on the forum compared against modern and ancient samples, it would be great to have a first Comorian!

- no pressure though

Thanks for the info, i'll try to do that!