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Alfa
06-02-2021, 12:19 AM
Samburu are Masai, there's no debate about it.They speak a dialect of the Maa language


Where did I say the Datog were Masai?



Iraqw and the Datog neighbour each other and apparently inter-marry.It was only right to see if there was any geneflow from the Iraqw to their neighbours.There's nothing misleading about it! It would make no sense to use Iraqw or any contemporary Cushitic population to model Tutsis since there is no modern Cushites in your region of Africa nor did I suggest using the Iraqw for the Tutsis.



The PIA sample is literally just PN with substantial Nilotic admixture.All evidence points to Tutsis being descendants of the PIA like the Datog,Masai and others like them. The only group that is similar to a PN sample in SE Africa is the Iraqw who are genetically similiar to Tanzanian Luxmanda



I highly doubt there were genetically predominately Cushitic population that spoke a Nilo-Saharan language.Most likely the ancestors of the Tutsis was something similar to the PIA

I understand what you are saying. But PIA is a fake cluster. We don't even know what what type of Eurasian make up in those nilosaharians groups. That's why I said we have to be cautious about those models.

Regarding if PN like pastoralists genetically who spoke nilosaharians languages existed, ancient dna will tell us more.

drobbah
06-02-2021, 09:53 PM
How are those two PIA samples fake? It seems clear for the Masai & Datog that they are predominantly descendants of populations similiar to the PIA samples.The Tutsis are only different because they have a significant amount of Bantu ancestry which isn't present in the other Cushitic admixed Nilotes.Perhaps Tutsis are PIA + Bantu

Alfa
06-02-2021, 10:43 PM
How are those two PIA samples fake? It seems clear for the Masai & Datog that they are predominantly descendants of populations similiar to the PIA samples.The Tutsis are only different because they have a significant amount of Bantu ancestry which isn't present in the other Cushitic admixed Nilotes.Perhaps Tutsis are PIA + Bantu

Our ancestors were most likely PNs who later mixed with bantoue.

I don't understand why you keep insisting like when you said "all available evidence", really? You have no strong evidence, let leave it.

These Tutsi sample from 23andme are low coverage reason why this G25 tool may be having hard time

- differentiating Dinka (embedded west africa)admixtures vs Bantoue admixtures

Nilotic sources are absorbing our Bantoues

Secondly, there is no linguistic evidence to back up your claims. You are just speculating.

Wait for linguistic evidence and genetic evidence from a reliable study before we can claim anything.

Alfa
06-02-2021, 10:46 PM
Might explain why many Somali Bandaris are more Egyptian&Levantive than peninsular Arab on 23andMe. The highest I have seen:
44457



https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/nom04f/i_was_adopted_by_my_parents_in_1984_i_heard_my/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

From Rwanda.

100% Somali according to 23andme
Paternal E-V32
Maternal L3f1a

A Somali born and raised in Rwanda. He was adopted as a baby by Banyarwanda parents. Growing up, he was told his parents were foreigners until he decided to do a DNA test. He was shocked.

Apparently, his father was military man and his mum was a Dr. who passed away giving birth. His parents fled Somalia 1980s

He is looking for relatives.

There were/are still Somali immigrants or refugees happely living in Rwanda since 1970s or 1980s until today.

44931

mpatsibihugu89
06-02-2021, 11:06 PM
All evidence points to Tutsis being descendants of the PIA like the Datog,Masai and others like them. The only group that is similar to a PN sample in SE Africa is the Iraqw who are genetically similiar to Tanzanian Luxmanda

What evidence? PIA's PN ancestry is not that much higher than Tutsi's and this is w/o removing the bantu ancestry. When the latter is removed, the proportions don't work out.

So far all Tutsi E-M293 branches on ftdna/yfull split with Kenyan and Tanzanian samples between 2600-3500ybp (including 2 PN samples at around ~2700ybp). We don't have many kits but early iron age ish is the period in which ancestors of tutsis probably started moving west of Lake Victoria. imo our ancestor were very likely PN like. This is just based on genetics. Archeologists found cattle remains in Southern Rwanda dated to 600BC.

However I do concede that PIA may have had some influence in the region. Around the PIA period, there was a noticeable increase in pastoral activities in the Great Lakes region.

drobbah
06-03-2021, 12:12 AM
Our ancestors were most likely PNs who later mixed with bantoue.

I don't understand why you keep insisting like when you said "all available evidence", really? You have no strong evidence, let leave it.

These Tutsi sample from 23andme are low coverage reason why this G25 tool may be having hard time

- differentiating Dinka (embedded west africa)admixtures vs Bantoue admixtures

Nilotic sources are absorbing our Bantoues

Secondly, there is no linguistic evidence to back up your claims. You are just speculating.

Wait for linguistic evidence and genetic evidence from a reliable study before we can claim anything.
How can you be PN + Bantu when you are heavily Dinka? All the results you have been posting from G25 just goes to show that Tutsis are nothing more than Nilotes (PIA) that admixed with Bantus.

drobbah
06-03-2021, 12:40 AM
What evidence? PIA's PN ancestry is not that much higher than Tutsi's and this is w/o removing the bantu ancestry. When the latter is removed, the proportions don't work out.
First of all the PN you are mentioning are not a monolith.Which PN samples best represent the Tutsis? If you can post a run with that PN & Bantus without the need to add Dinka/Sudanese

Target: KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I12398
Distance: 7.2493% / 0.07249321
49.8 Sudanese
44.2 Levant_PPNB
6.0 ETH_4500BP

Target: TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP
Distance: 5.3442% / 0.05344162
38.0 Levant_PPNB
32.4 ETH_4500BP
29.6 Sudanese

Target: KEN_Pastoral_N:I8830
Distance: 8.3527% / 0.08352668
58.6 Sudanese
41.4 Levant_PPNB

Target: KEN_LuKENHill_3500BP:LUK001
Distance: 7.5666% / 0.07566577
42.6 Sudanese
39.2 Levant_PPNB
18.2 ETH_4500BP





So far all Tutsi E-M293 branches on ftdna/yfull split with Kenyan and Tanzanian samples between 2600-3500ybp (including 2 PN samples at around ~2700ybp). How does that disprove my theory of PIA Nilotic ancestry dominating the Tutsis? Ofcourse you will have substantial amount of South Cushitic lineages by proxy ofcourse.

mpatsibihugu89
06-03-2021, 01:30 AM
First of all the PN you are mentioning are not a monolith. Which PN samples best represent the Tutsis? If you can post a run with that PN & Bantus without the need to add Dinka/Sudanese

Target: KEN_Pastoral_N_Elmenteitan:I12398
Distance: 7.2493% / 0.07249321
49.8 Sudanese
44.2 Levant_PPNB
6.0 ETH_4500BP

Target: TZA_Luxmanda_3100BP
Distance: 5.3442% / 0.05344162
38.0 Levant_PPNB
32.4 ETH_4500BP
29.6 Sudanese

Target: KEN_Pastoral_N:I8830
Distance: 8.3527% / 0.08352668
58.6 Sudanese
41.4 Levant_PPNB

Target: KEN_LuKENHill_3500BP:LUK001
Distance: 7.5666% / 0.07566577
42.6 Sudanese
39.2 Levant_PPNB
18.2 ETH_4500BP



Your fits are terrible and just prove G25's limitations. Dinka might not be a great proxy for the AEA ancestry in PN which as result inflates the Mota like ancestry (at least compared to what prendergast et al found). on the PCA they plot very close to each other except the 2 early PN. All the PN individuals carried Mota/HG related ancestry (including I8830 shown in your run w/o Mota) according to Prendergast et al '19.

44941


G25 gives the tutsi individuals way too much Dinka like ancestry. You put too much faith in G25 runs. It does not reflect our true ancestry. 23andme gives us way less. Ftdna does not even give us any (no more than 2%).


How does that disprove my theory of PIA Nilotic ancestry dominating the Tutsis? Ofcourse you will have substantial amount of South Cushitic lineages by proxy ofcourse. For one, none of the of the PIA lineages of E-M293 were related to us so far. They are different branches. So far known PN individuals related to a tutsi lineage are: I12384 (PN) & I13762 (Tz PN) TMRCA ~2700ybp from Prendergast'19 and LUK001 from Wang '20. Just FYI. Doesn't prove much but that is more than you have shown for your case.

drobbah
06-03-2021, 01:48 AM
Your fits are terrible and just prove G25's limitations. Dinka might not be a great proxy for the AEA ancestry in PN which as result inflates the Mota like ancestry (at least compared to what prendergast et al found). on the PCA they plot very close to each other except the 2 early PN. All the PN individuals carried Mota/HG related ancestry (including I8830 shown in your run w/o Mota) according to Prendergast et al '19.
You can't disregard G25 as limited and then afterwards mention how close the PN samples are on a PCA plot, you are contradicting yourself.As for the PN they are all mostly heavily Mota from what Mnemonics has said on qpadm so you tell me where exactly this large percentage of Dinka in the Tutsis is coming from?






G25 gives the tutsi individuals way too much Dinka like ancestry. You put too much faith in G25 runs. It does not reflect our true ancestry. 23andme gives us way less. Ftdna does not even give us any (no more than 2%).
Unless you are claiming that extra Dinka is actually HG ancestry from the PNs (which I don't buy) then that Dinka ancestry can only come from one source lol



For one, none of the of the PIA lineages of E-M293 were related to us so far. They are different branches. So far known PN individuals related to a tutsi lineage are: I12384 (PN) & I13762 (Tz PN) TMRCA ~2700ybp from Prendergast'19 and LUK001 from Wang '20. Just FYI. Doesn't prove much but that is more than you have shown for your case. Yes, so far but we only have two PIA samples from Kenya so clearly we don't have much to go by for you to make grandiose statements like Tutsis having nothing to do with the PIA/PIA-like Nilotic populations

Alfa
06-03-2021, 03:43 AM
You can't disregard G25 as limited and then afterwards mention how close the PN samples are on a PCA plot, you are contradicting yourself.As for the PN they are all mostly heavily Mota from what Mnemonics has said on qpadm so you tell me where exactly this large percentage of Dinka in the Tutsis is coming from?





Unless you are claiming that extra Dinka is actually HG ancestry from the PNs (which I don't buy) then that Dinka ancestry can only come from one source lol

Yes, so far but we only have two PIA samples from Kenya so clearly we don't have much to go by for you to make grandiose statements like Tutsis having nothing to do with the PIA/PIA-like Nilotic populations

Tutsi significant Bantoue admixtures make them plot closer to PIA because Dinka/Nilotic plot close to each other anyway. Never mind about PCA, Tutsi sample are low coverage, those estimates results could also be due to low SNPs of those Tutsi samples.


***Pastoral Iron Age starts around 1200 BP after Pastoral Neolithic ended if I recall correctly.

****A Rwandese member mentionned already that there is archeological evidence of pastoralism practices before 600 BC in Rwanda.

****Why you keep assuming that those pastoralists people who were responsible for pastoralism in Rwanda before 600 BC (pastoralism in Uganda most likely older) were not likely PNs, when 600BC is clearly before Iron Age.

****Based on archeological evidence of pastoralism practices in Rwanda before 600BC, it is most likely that it was a 1st successful migration wave of PNs people West of Lake Victoria.

Yes, that's 1 of the reason why I said PIA is a fake cluster.

I don't know what your talking about.

Tutsi/Hima dinka averages may be slighlty higher than what modern cushitics score since you have to account for Tutsi/Hima bantoue admixtures which G25 is clearly failing to spot. Tutsi are not Nilotic speakers, they are bantoue speakers.

****Remember about what Tiskoff study mentionned about modern South Cushites in Kenya/Tanzania forming their own cluster that different from Cushitic from the Horn.

Stop assuming that all ancient PN were high in Mota, there is not evidence of that. Ancient dna will tell us more in the future.

G25 make Tutsi/Hima closer to Iraqw(according to G25) than Horners, do you know why? I doubt you do. Reliable genetic study will tell us more.

It is also possible that Tutsi ancestors may have been heavy on Mota as well, but other reliable studies in the future will tell us more.

Here an example of Razib Khan analysis on Tutsi sample, when he used same method as in Pendergast 2019 PN study.

http://www.razib.com/wordpress/category/tutsi/

****Compare Tutsi Mota amount to PN's Mota, almost about the same considering Tutsi have West Africa about 20-35+%(G25 not so reliable).

****Deduct Tutsi 20-35+% West Africa from that that 61% Dinka admixtures in Razib Khan runs, you have an about same amount of Dinka as PN.

Remember about my earlier comments about KEN_LSA being similar to Mota.

@ Chad mentionned Mota is about 85% LSA, 15% Sahara

@Mnemonics stated LSA is predominently Mota with minor ZAF.

G25 may be picking LSA for Tutsi due to our ZAF admixtures, LSA is not needed for us to measure our Mota since both Mota/LSA are almost similar, this may be making Dinka admixtures spike, which is misleading.

Tutsi/Hima
44942

You can see above, that G25 is clearly struggling. Our West Africa is much lower than what I would expect from Bantoue group like Tutsi/Hima which are more West Africa admixed than Masai according to Razib Khan.

G25 is struggling to differentiate

- Dinka from Mota
- Dinka from West Africa

These Great Lakes pastoralists are so admixed that already complicated to rush to quick conclusions. Reason why instead of relying on your non-existant evidences, I clearly mentioned to wait for a reliable genetic study and ancient dna in Great Lakes in Rwanda/Burundi, Uganda, Tanzania.

Done discussing this, you are free to believe what you want, but you are just speculating.

Tomenable
06-03-2021, 03:51 PM
Tutsi/Hima
44942

Do you have Hutu for comparison?

mpatsibihugu89
06-03-2021, 05:42 PM
You can't disregard G25 as limited and then afterwards mention how close the PN samples are on a PCA plot, you are contradicting yourself. As for the PN they are all mostly heavily Mota from what Mnemonics has said on qpadm so you tell me where exactly this large percentage of Dinka in the Tutsis is coming from?


We clearly have a lot of AEA (which peaks in Dinka). But I very much doubt it is from a single source of Dinka like people. We get it from many sources such as PN like, Eastern Bantus and iron age nilote expansion (probably dinka like). You can't just put it all together and say that it came from one source as some g25 runs suggest.


I am not contradicting myself. G25 pca positions are accurate and I don't dismiss g25 calculators entirely. They are useful up to a point. I just don't agree with conclusions drawn from some deep layer runs. Daviski's conversion method isn't comparable to your basic runs. The coordinates match other published genetics materials. You just need to know what you are looking at and interpret correctly. Here is my run. I keep it simple. This run is informed by haplogroup distribution of tutsis. What you suggest, cannot be backed up by haplogroups.

44958

This run gives us about the same amount of Sudanese we get on 23andme.

See Y-dna distribution of Tutsi individuals from 23andme. Our admixture seems to line with Y-dna distribution.

44959
mtdna

44960



Unless you are claiming that extra Dinka is actually HG ancestry from the PNs (which I don't buy) then that Dinka ancestry can only come from one source lol
Not necessarily and I know you know better from the migrations that took place in East Africa. Nough said see above.

Mirix
06-10-2021, 12:08 PM
I found a very interesting recent results posted by a Somali 23andMe user, who was perplexed by how an Amhara suddenly could be his 3rd cousin.


How is it possible that an Ethiopian Amhara is my third cousin on 23andMe?

This person has either lost his connection to a Somali grandparent or there was deception and lie that happened somewhere in his lineage.
https://www.somalispot.com/attachments/screenshot-3-png.188333/

https://www.somalispot.com/attachments/screenshot-2-png.188334/

Test results of his Amhara relative shows up as 20% Somali. The fact that he has no recollection of any recent family members being Somali, might b elude to it being an ancestry derived from a few centuries or generations back in time .

What do you guys think can be an explanation for this?

I believe the historical explanation for this could be that we know a few Somali Darood clans aside from Harla was living in Showa plateu around/near Awash as neighbors of the Amhara. They were assimilated or Amharanized probably after the fall of Awfat or most likely after the collapse of Awdal. (Al-Jabarti). Because we know some of those clans names from sources like Moora, Gabal, Warjeex, Wargur, Hagar, Hargaya, Gaatur, Shawa, Gadaya-Geri (These were Jabarti/Darod clans) , some others ones were assimilated by migrating Oromo's no doubt. Amhara much like the Oromo are quite a heterogenous group of people comprimised of people of different origins that had a language shift to either Amharic or Oromo. See: Nature of Amhara ethnicity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amhara_people#Nature_of_Amhara_ethnicity), regarded as a multi-ethnic group or a fused stock.

Similarly their genetic make up shows the same thing. When they did a study on the the Y chromosome marker that characterizes Somalis High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males (https://www.nature.com/articles/5201390), this marker has it's origins in the Somali male population in East Africa 5000 years ago.

They found that 2nd to the Ethiopian Oromos, Amhara had the 2nd highest frequency of E3b1 Y marker.

The frequency of E3b1 was significantly lower in Ethiopian Oromos (35.9%), Ethiopian Amharas (22.9%), Egyptians (20.0%), Sudanese (17.5%), Kenyans (15.1%),10 Iraqis (6.3%), Northern Africans (6.1%), Southern Europeans (0.5–5.1%) and sub-Saharan populations (below 1%).

Which shows substantial gene flow from the Somali population to them. Possibly the Somali groups they assimilated near them in the deep western regions.

Wangari
06-14-2021, 01:35 AM
[Deleted]

drobbah
07-20-2021, 07:21 PM
I found a very interesting recent results posted by a Somali 23andMe user, who was perplexed by how an Amhara suddenly could be his 3rd cousin.


https://www.somalispot.com/attachments/screenshot-3-png.188333/

https://www.somalispot.com/attachments/screenshot-2-png.188334/

Test results of his Amhara relative shows up as 20% Somali. The fact that he has no recollection of any recent family members being Somali, might b elude to it being an ancestry derived from a few centuries or generations back in time .

What do you guys think can be an explanation for this?

I believe the historical explanation for this could be that we know a few Somali Darood clans aside from Harla was living in Showa plateu around/near Awash as neighbors of the Amhara. They were assimilated or Amharanized probably after the fall of Awfat or most likely after the collapse of Awdal. (Al-Jabarti). Because we know some of those clans names from sources like Moora, Gabal, Warjeex, Wargur, Hagar, Hargaya, Gaatur, Shawa, Gadaya-Geri (These were Jabarti/Darod clans) , some others ones were assimilated by migrating Oromo's no doubt. Amhara much like the Oromo are quite a heterogenous group of people comprimised of people of different origins that had a language shift to either Amharic or Oromo. See: Nature of Amhara ethnicity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amhara_people#Nature_of_Amhara_ethnicity), regarded as a multi-ethnic group or a fused stock.

Similarly their genetic make up shows the same thing. When they did a study on the the Y chromosome marker that characterizes Somalis High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males (https://www.nature.com/articles/5201390), this marker has it's origins in the Somali male population in East Africa 5000 years ago.

They found that 2nd to the Ethiopian Oromos, Amhara had the 2nd highest frequency of E3b1 Y marker.


Which shows substantial gene flow from the Somali population to them. Possibly the Somali groups they assimilated near them in the deep western regions.
My father and I have a handful of Amhara matches as well but a lot more Oromos.The only explanation I can think of is that those Amharas probably have been recently Amharized or come from Amhara region with heavy contact with the Oromos.Perhaps this Somali individual has some Oromo ancestry?

Also many Somalis including my own family lived among the Oromos and Amharas in places like Nazareth (modern Adama) creating these trading colonies/outposts in the 18th & 19th century.I have very distant family members who are Orthodox Christians and became Amharized themselves but paternally trace ancestry to my great grandfather.My paternal grandmother who was from the same Habar Awal subclan as me had family members in Sidama region probably for business opportunities and this might explain her extremely high Mota percentage although my father denies she had any Sidamo/Southern Ethiopian recent ancestry.My paternal grandmother’s sister was married to a Somali there and I’m pretty sure they became assimilated into the local population

kanye
07-24-2021, 03:29 AM
I came across these results on Reddit; the user is Toubou with a Chadian father and Libyan mother. I want to encourage her to run her raw data through Gedmatch and G25.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/krewuq/my_results_tubuchad/

Most likely a fault on 23andMe's end. Not having a Chadian category and all.

drobbah
08-01-2021, 11:09 AM
Female Somali (probably Southerner) with Bantu admixture and a Bantu maternal haplogroup L3d1a1

95.3% Somali
1.1% Ethiopian&Eritrean
Angolan & Congolese 2.0%
SE African 1.3%
Broadly Congolese & SE Africa 0.3%

mpatsibihugu89
08-05-2021, 04:41 PM
Somali bantu

https://youtu.be/i-pSZu1x8qQ

Angoliga
08-06-2021, 05:21 AM
Interesting 23andMe results of a half Darfurian Baggara (Sudanese) and half Kakwa (South-Sudanese) from reddit -- her "Sudanese" seems strikingly quite low:
https://i.imgur.com/VR92D8g.png

For comparison, here's my results as a half Kakwa (Ugandan)/ half neighbouring Aringa (Ugandan):
https://i.imgur.com/gfjWHoh.png


This update seems to be assigning a significant amount of her Darfurian Baggara ancestry to the cluster "Southern East-African" as opposed to "Sudanese". For context, ADMIX results have the Baggara (Messiria) with an Ancestral East-African affinity typically within ~40-60% (Hollfelder, 2017, Tishkoff, 2009).

We've seen similar mixups among Great-Lake pops with sizeable Nilo-Saharan ancestry being grouped within "Southern East-African", which might've been somewhat more permissible for samples within Central-East-Africa -- but among pops as far out as the Sahel region seems a stretch

This is a pretty serious flaw, I hope they have it corrected in their next update -- I submitted a suggestion sometime ago but doubt it landed anywhere.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
08-06-2021, 09:37 AM
A Kenyan from the Embu tribe (he said that he gets told that he's Somali even in Embu lol)


https://youtu.be/5IrTu1Mq3p8

His 23andme results

SSA 99.6%
Congolese & Southern East African 81.1%
Southern East African 74.5%
Angolan & Congolese 3.8%
Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 2.8%

Northern East African 16.7%
Ethiopian & Eritrean 10.8%
Sudanese 0.9%
Broadly Northern East African 5.0%
Broadly SSA 1.8%

Trace Ancestry
Broadly European 0.1%

Unassigned 0.4%

mpatsibihugu89
08-06-2021, 02:08 PM
Interesting 23andMe results of a half Darfurian Baggara (Sudanese) and half Kakwa (South-Sudanese) from reddit -- her "Sudanese" seems strikingly quite low:
https://i.imgur.com/VR92D8g.png

For comparison, here's my results as a half Kakwa (Ugandan)/ half neighbouring Aringa (Ugandan):
https://i.imgur.com/gfjWHoh.png


This update seems to be assigning a significant amount of her Darfurian Baggara ancestry to the cluster "Southern East-African" as opposed to "Sudanese". For context, ADMIX results have the Baggara (Messiria) with an Ancestral East-African affinity typically within ~40-60% (Hollfelder, 2017, Tishkoff, 2009).

We've seen similar mixups among Great-Lake pops with sizeable Nilo-Saharan ancestry being grouped within "Southern East-African", which might've been somewhat more permissible for samples within Central-East-African -- but among pops as far out as the Sahel region seems a stretch.
https://youtu.be/KYtwa4qD7GA
This is a pretty serious flaw, I hope they have it corrected in their next update -- I submitted a suggestion sometime ago but doubt it landed anywhere.

Quite right. You will find this video interesting as well. 100% Iteso Ugandan lady.

https://youtu.be/KYtwa4qD7GA

Angoliga
08-07-2021, 12:48 AM
Quite right. You will find this video interesting as well. 100% Iteso Ugandan lady.

https://youtu.be/KYtwa4qD7GA

Wow! thanks for sharing -- I actually happen to know her : ) Our families are well acquainted. My mother even happened to message her mom just yesterday -- what a coincidence!

I thought she looked familiar, then saw she's also from Toronto -- the Ugandan community isn't that big here... I'll see if she's interested in getting G25 cords



Interestingly, within the East-Nilotic branch of NS languages, Teso and Kakwa (Bari) are nearly mutually intelligible. Turkana, Maa and other Rift-Valley E-Nilotic speakers less so, perhaps they adopted more words from neighboring South Nilotic/Cushitic speakers?... I haven't done any research on the topic but would be curious to find out

I'm late to the game: Reddit/Youtube seem to be good sources of finding newly tested Africans! I'm keen on finding stalk North-Sudanese testers in particular -- they *might be the missing piece-of-the-puzzle for the non-negligible anatolian affinities we're seeing among some Rift-Valley pops.

mpatsibihugu89
08-07-2021, 04:05 AM
Wow! thanks for sharing -- I actually happen to know her : ) Our families are actually well acquainted. My mother even happened to message her mom just yesterday -- what a coincidence!

I thought she looked familiar, then saw she's also from Toronto -- the Ugandan community isn't that big here... I'll see if she's interested in getting G25 cords



Interestingly, within the East-Nilotic branch of NS languages, Teso and Kakwa (Bari) are nearly mutually intelligible. Turkana, Maa and other Rift-Valley E-Nilotic speakers less so, perhaps they adopted more words from neighboring South Nilotic/Cushitic speakers?... I haven't done any research on the topic but would be curious to find out

I'm late to the game: Reddit/Youtube seem to be good sources of finding newly tested Africans! I'm keen on finding stalk North-Sudanese testers in particular -- they *might be the missing piece-of-the-puzzle for the non-negligible anatolian affinities we're seeing among some Rift-Valley pops.

She def has that Nilote look. Surprised she didn't score more Sudanese. Ya man do your thing. I would be curious to see if she plots near Luhya/Luo or other S.Sudanese.

drobbah
08-09-2021, 01:06 AM
A North & East Shewa Oromo match of mine

45977

Angoliga
09-02-2021, 06:31 PM
My girlfriend's ftdna results, Batutsi (Burundi) -- finally convinced her to take a test:

https://i.imgur.com/0qwxjxc.png


My results for comparison, Aringa/Kakwa (Uganda):

https://i.imgur.com/GqEcoc1.png

... quite the contrast : )

Espoir
09-04-2021, 06:47 PM
On the right is a DNA relative of mine. Left is me.
He is from the same tribe(Banyamulenge)
46405

Quite high Ethiopia, there is a trend here in our people.

mpatsibihugu89
09-05-2021, 03:24 PM
My girlfriend's ftdna results, Batutsi (Burundi) -- finally convinced her to take a test:

https://i.imgur.com/0qwxjxc.png


My results for comparison, Aringa/Kakwa (Uganda):

https://i.imgur.com/GqEcoc1.png

... quite the contrast : )

Thanks for sharing. what do you think about your ftdna results? seems like a good estimate. Majority Eastern Sahel.

As for your girlfriend, seems her results are in line with most batutsi I have seen. Surprised I don't have her as relative. Did you all test directly with ftdna? or are those uploads.

Mine changed quite a bit when I switched to ftdna kit and removed 23andme upload.

here is mine in comparison, New result.

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check out 23andme upload.Old results

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drobbah
09-05-2021, 08:54 PM
So those previous results were based on my 23&me data but a few weeks back I decided to buy an actual FF kit and told ftdna to delete my autosomal transfer.The results are practically the same only difference is the Yemenite Jewish decreases by 3% which isn't the correct amount according to my genealogy.I also found two Peninsular Arab (Emirati) matches including one from a very prominent family in Dubai with the longest shared segment being 18cm with that individual

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Considering the Yemeni results I seen posted online predominantly get the Arabian Peninsula component (probably based on Saudis/BedouinB) makes me suspect if my female ancestor was from a family that was forcibly converted by the Zaydi Imamate of Northern Yemen.

From what I read it was uncommon for the regular Yemeni Muslims to give ther daughters in marriage to the poor immigrant Somali men who migrated for opportunities.So my current theory is my Habar Yoonis Somali great great grandfather married an orphaned jewish girl and didn't have to pay much for in dowry. When back up to 6% Yemeni and finally got the Chromosome painting

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mpatsibihugu89
09-09-2021, 06:37 PM
When back up to 6% Yemeni and finally got the Chromosome painting

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Interesting. Saw another 100% somali 23andme upload on ftdna who scored 11% "Maghreb & Egypt". How common is it for 100% somali to score WANA on ftdna? which pop is reference for that Ethiosomali region o ftdna?

drobbah
09-10-2021, 03:27 PM
Interesting. Saw another 100% somali 23andme upload on ftdna who scored 11% "Maghreb & Egypt". How common is it for 100% somali to score WANA on ftdna? which pop is reference for that Ethiosomali region o ftdna?
Most of my Somali matches are 100% Horner on Ftdna but the Maghreb & Egypt is probably just some noise or something unless the individual knows of family history from that region.I have seen an Egyptian on ftdna and they don’t even score the Maghreb & Egypt component but rather Southern Levant.

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
09-12-2021, 09:52 AM
23andMe G25 UNSCALED calculator (Gergő Marosvári)

Target: Me
Distance: 0.9060% / 0.00906017
34.8 Angolan_CongoleseNyaneka
26.8 Southern_East_African:Luo
13.4 Sudanese:Sudanese
9.2 Ethiopian_Eritrean:Ethiopian_Jew
8.0 Nigerian:Yoruba
3.0 Iranian_Caucasian_Mesopotamian:Georgian
2.8 Siberian:Ket
2.0 Nigerian:Fulani

mpatsibihugu89
09-14-2021, 01:18 PM
Most of my Somali matches are 100% Horner on Ftdna but the Maghreb & Egypt is probably just some noise or something unless the individual knows of family history from that region.I have seen an Egyptian on ftdna and they don’t even score the Maghreb & Egypt component but rather Southern Levant.

Strange but I have seen tutsis getting 10+% Maghreb & Egypt splitting the horn affinity in half sometimes. Ftdna might still have issue distinguishing the two in some cases.

Sabz
09-16-2021, 12:10 AM
23 and Me G25 Unscaled Calculator
Target: Sabz
Distance: 0.8760% / 0.00876044
83.8 Angolan_Congolese
11.8 Southern_East_African
2.4 Nigerian
1.4 Japanese
0.6 Sardinian

Seems like there is alot misleading dna here though.

Angoliga
09-17-2021, 05:07 PM
Thanks for sharing. what do you think about your ftdna results? seems like a good estimate. Majority Eastern Sahel.

My pleasure! Yes, I'd say so far FTDNA has the most accurate results for testers of my region.

Though I wouldn't put too faith into the "Nile River Basin"/"East African Savana" breakdown as I've seen siblings with widely contrasting results -- IIRC (+-20% ) so, it's quite fickly.



As for your girlfriend, seems her results are in line with most batutsi I have seen. Surprised I don't have her as relative. Did you all test directly with ftdna? or are those uploads.

Yes, she tested directly. Anonymously, I can say her acronyms are "G M"; her paternal clan is Rorero (from the north) if that means anything to you.

I think she had a little over a dozen matches, most I'm guessing from the same region judging by those who provided their names... even matched with some diasporans from the Americas, I think I recall a Brazilian, along with an Arab.



Mine changed quite a bit when I switched to ftdna kit and removed 23andme upload.

here is mine in comparison, New result.

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check out 23andme upload.Old results

46418

Wow! that's quite the change, the "East/West Lake Victoria Basin" seems super erratic.

Angoliga
09-17-2021, 06:09 PM
New ancestry results:
https://i.imgur.com/6Cged48.png

Old :
https://i.imgur.com/rRvrUUZ.png

Not much has changed for me, Nilotic ancestry still doesn't have it's own cluster, erroneously taken up mostly by "Khoisan, Aka & Mbuta Peoples" (shown within South Sudan according to Ancestry *sigh*)
"Eastern Bantu Peoples" seems to have eaten up some of the Malian/Senegalese sahelian from the previous update.


*Hopefully, their new "Egypt" cluster will at least be an improvement for persons of Egyptian/Northern East-African ancestry:

https://i.imgur.com/NkTuStz.png
(Other regions (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?24650-AncestryDNA-update-coming-in-September&p=801376&viewfull=1#post801376))

...otherwise quite the letdown atm overall.

Deftextra
09-17-2021, 10:10 PM
I'm 82% Horner now
51% ethio-eritrean
31% Somali.

I'm interested in what type of references they are using for their ethio-eritrean, because this is the highest I've ever got on any calculator and is to over-blown and far to inaccurate. I was hoping the new algorithm would be able to distinguish my Somali + middle eastern ancestry and not just assign ethio-eritrean.

Hurricane
09-18-2021, 09:03 AM
G25 Modern averages scaled

Original run

Distance: 1.1663% / 0.01166323
26.2 Toubou_Chad
17.0 Fulani
13.4 Gambian
10.8 BedouinB
8.2 Cameroon_Aghem
7.8 Sena
6.6 Mada
3.2 Jatt_Pathak
2.4 Tunisian_Rbaya
1.8 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
1.4 Kubachinian
0.6 Papuan
0.4 Mlabri
0.2 Jehai

Targeted run (minus intermediate pops)
Distance: 1.5756% / 0.01575567
20.8 Yoruba
19.2 Berber_MAR_TIZ
17.8 Gambian
12.4 Rendille
7.8 Luhya_Kenya
6.2 Somali
5.6 BedouinB
3.6 Bantu_Kenya
3.0 Kalash
1.0 Dinka
1.0 Gujar_India
0.8 Lak
0.4 Mlabri
0.4 Papuan

Tomenable
09-18-2021, 10:38 AM
An example of Mauritius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius) GEDmatch results:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritians

MDLP World22:

Population
Pygmy 0.78 Pct
West-Asian 8.71 Pct
North-European-Mesolithic 1.44 Pct
Indo-Tibetan 0.2 Pct
Mesoamerican 0.34 Pct
Arctic-Amerind -
South-America_Amerind 0.63 Pct
Indian 17.59 Pct
North-Siberean -
Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 12.15 Pct
Samoedic -
Indo-Iranian 2.92 Pct
East-Siberean 4.2 Pct
North-East-European 14.24 Pct
South-African 1 Pct
North-Amerind -
Sub-Saharian 15.24 Pct
East-South-Asian 17.97 Pct
Near_East 2.01 Pct
Melanesian 0.32 Pct
Paleo-Siberian 0.27 Pct
Austronesian -

HarappaWorld:

Population
S-Indian 18.68 Pct
Baloch 11.6 Pct
Caucasian 1.23 Pct
NE-Euro 15.9 Pct
SE-Asian 11.23 Pct
Siberian -
NE-Asian 8.94 Pct
Papuan -
American 0.93 Pct
Beringian 0.38 Pct
Mediterranean 13.23 Pct
SW-Asian 0.21 Pct
San 1.61 Pct
E-African 1.31 Pct
Pygmy 1.2 Pct
W-African 13.53 Pct

Dodecad Africa9:

Population
Europe 45.82 Pct
NW_Africa 3.08 Pct
SW_Asia 23.92 Pct
E_Africa 2.58 Pct
S_Africa 4.54 Pct
Mbuti 2.06 Pct
W_Africa 14.07 Pct
Biaka 0.92 Pct
San 3.01 Pct

Dodecad K12b:

Population
Gedrosia 11.92 Pct
Siberian 0.44 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 12.41 Pct
Atlantic_Med 15.41 Pct
North_European 12.55 Pct
South_Asian 18.42 Pct
East_African 3.23 Pct
Southwest_Asian -
East_Asian 8.21 Pct
Caucasus 2.54 Pct
Sub_Saharan 14.86 Pct

Eurogenes K13:

North_Atlantic 17.91 Pct
Baltic 4.67 Pct
West_Med 8.45 Pct
West_Asian 5.64 Pct
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 23.94 Pct
East_Asian 17.35 Pct
Siberian 2.51 Pct
Amerindian 1.13 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 3.1 Pct
Sub-Saharan 15.25 Pct

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 10.55 Pct
Atlantic 12.41 Pct
Baltic 1.9 Pct
Eastern_Euro 0.74 Pct
West_Med 6.46 Pct
West_Asian 3.73 Pct
East_Med -
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 24.76 Pct
Southeast_Asian 17.55 Pct
Siberian 2.43 Pct
Amerindian 1.04 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 3.06 Pct
Sub-Saharan 15.38 Pct

Hurricane
09-19-2021, 09:27 AM
Afroroots will allow autosomal transfers soon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCWO9WP6g0

Deftextra
09-25-2021, 07:30 PM
My fathers cousin 23andMe results. They share the same mt haplogroup.


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