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lifeisdandy
06-29-2016, 06:42 PM
My father's ydna is J1-P58 and we are egyptian copts...I wanted to make mention of where most of my dna relatives are from.

My father clusters with 2 other saudi males who we share a common paternal ancestor with within the last 900 years and I have a lot of Coptic and Jewish relates... The fact that I have jewish relatives makes me believe that its possible we all share a jewish relative whose descendants ended up in saudi and egypt...

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Babylon_74
06-30-2016, 04:36 AM
My father's ydna is J1-P58 and we are egyptian copts...I wanted to make mention of where most of my dna relatives are from.

My father clusters with 2 other saudi males who we share a common paternal ancestor with within the last 900 years and I have a lot of Coptic and Jewish relates... The fact that I have jewish relatives makes me believe that its possible we all share a jewish relative whose descendants ended up in saudi and egypt...

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Did you add your sample to FTDNA DNA project?...and in case you did in which project if you don't mind?

Babylon_74
06-30-2016, 04:43 AM
What is your most recent SNP under P58?

By the way J1 Haplogroup is NOT rare at all in Copts,Nubians and Baja people

10017

RCO
06-30-2016, 12:54 PM
Everything is possible. Collect more data and compare. You need Big Y or FGC SNPs.

lifeisdandy
06-30-2016, 02:33 PM
What is your most recent SNP under P58?

By the way J1 Haplogroup is NOT rare at all in Copts,Nubians and Baja people

10017

Our terminal snp is p-58...nothing below that... why are you clustering copts, nubians and beja people? Is it fair to say that the J1 in these peoples came from intermingling with arabian people in ancient times?

lifeisdandy
06-30-2016, 02:34 PM
Did you add your sample to FTDNA DNA project?...and in case you did in which project if you don't mind?

I am in the ydna j1 project with ftdna... https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-M267/default.aspx?section=yresults

Babylon_74
06-30-2016, 11:47 PM
Our terminal snp is p-58...nothing below that... why are you clustering copts, nubians and beja people? Is it fair to say that the J1 in these peoples came from intermingling with arabian people in ancient times?

Dear Lifeisdandy,

J1 Haplogroup is much older than of all those relatively "modern" historic names such as Arabs,Copts,Hebrews,Nubians and Beja people...etc.
Actually I didn't cluster your sample.I do not even know what your kit number is!.I'm just stating that the presence of J1 haplogroup in Copts and Nubians is fairly normal according to genetic studies (Hassan ET AL).Your case doesn't need to be an "Arabized" or "judaized" Copt scenario in your case ,unless you have a clear genetic cluster with historical recent terminal SNP.


I am in the ydna j1 project with ftdna... https://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-M267/default.aspx?section=yresults

Kindly, can you give your (kit number) and mention your closest genetic match if you don't mind,inorder to give better assessment?

lifeisdandy
07-01-2016, 01:11 AM
265928 please take a look and let me know please.

Babylon_74
07-01-2016, 03:02 AM
265928 please take a look and let me know please.

your kit seems "Upstream" and belong to a very old genetic line near the basal split of the mutation P-58
It has clear distinction away from old Yemeni genetic lines such as the Khawlani (Y4067) and Mehri (L93) and may represent an early prehistoric migration from the Levant towards the Nile valley via the Sinai peninsula (may have Isolated traces around both sides of the Red Sea ?).As I already told you before upstream J1 lines are not rare in your region ,and the limited data base for J1 Copts ,Nubians ...etc may harden the possibility of giving a strong preliminary assessment for your current cluster (YACII=17-22).Unfortunately the information available by your current test is limited and it may need further test such as the Big Y test.

Regards

lifeisdandy
07-01-2016, 06:37 PM
Thank you for that. What will a big y test show?

lifeisdandy
07-01-2016, 07:06 PM
What do you mean by upstream and how do you know the snp came from the levant?

Babylon_74
07-02-2016, 11:49 AM
What do you mean by upstream and how do you know the snp came from the levant?

Upstream is an expression meaning it's on a higher and older SNP stream. Concerning the J1-P58 hypothetical pre-historic route it depends on probable path from Anatolia/Fertile crescent via a Levantine corridor to reach the Sinai peninsula

10100

Babylon_74
07-02-2016, 02:38 PM
Here another J1>P58>L858 Copts result

417067 Lotf Allah (لطف الله) عائلة لطف الله، أقباط مصر، سوهاج (Egyptian Copts) J-M267 12 23 14 10 13-19 9 15 11 12 11 29

lifeisdandy
07-02-2016, 06:13 PM
Thank you for that. So the origin of my cluster is the levant through the sinai peninsula?

Agamemnon
07-02-2016, 10:26 PM
While Egypt certainly does have some pretty rare J1 lineages, most of the J1 in Upper Egypt (and Sinai) is of Arabian origin and is tied to clusters with TMRCAs which do not predate the last 2,000 years (BY86, FGC1696, etc). Obviously, the latter doesn't count for your marker while the former does. I checked your sample and it seems your cluster's TMRCA is roughly 4,500 years old, several possible scenarios can explain its distribution, all involve an arrival into Egypt from the Sinai and the Levant (unless J1 emerged in North Africa, which would be quite unusual and unexpected).

Babylon_74
07-03-2016, 03:15 AM
Thank you for that. So the origin of my cluster is the levant through the sinai peninsula?

Most probably,Since we didn't find any Anatolian or Yemeni samples in your cluster (YACII=17-22),Keeping in mind that Sinai peninsula was probably a geographical path not a place of origin of your cluster and we already know that currently The Sinai/Upper Egypt-as already mentioned by Agamemnon-is filled with Tribal Arab samples that belongs to another J1>L858>YSC76 line

10125

By the way do you know the exact geographical location of you Saudi match samples?

lifeisdandy
07-03-2016, 05:23 AM
They are both from medina - hejaz

lifeisdandy
07-03-2016, 05:29 AM
But where would the place of origin be for our cluster?

Babylon_74
07-03-2016, 05:40 AM
They are both from medina - hejaz


But where would the place of origin be for our cluster?

So that makes sense .So as I assumed before your cluster J1-P58 (YACII=17-22) is found on both side of the Red Sea.Personally I believe in a Pre-historic Levantine origin and I disregard a probable Red Sea crossing route hypothesis similar to the one happened with J-L222

lifeisdandy
07-03-2016, 05:44 AM
So our paternal ancestor originated in the levant region and some descendants when south into arabia and some into egypt via sinai... I dunno if I mentioned but these two saudis are from the same tribe which is interesting

lifeisdandy
07-04-2016, 03:28 PM
Would these levantines who migrated be considered neolithic? What language would they have spoken.. what civilizations did these Levantines belong to?

royking
07-04-2016, 03:56 PM
So that makes sense .So as I assumed before your cluster J1-P58 (YACII=17-22) is found on both side of the Red Sea.Personally I believe in a Pre-historic Levantine origin and I disregard a probable Red Sea crossing route hypothesis similar to the one happened with J-L222

We have two samples from Rhodes/Kos region who are J1-P58 with YCII=17-22.

lifeisdandy
07-04-2016, 04:41 PM
We have two samples from Rhodes/Kos region who are J1-P58 with YCII=17-22.

What are there kit numbers? Are they in the j1 ftdna project? Is one of them antonaros?

royking
07-05-2016, 02:00 AM
What are there kit numbers? Are they in the j1 ftdna project? Is one of them antonaros?
One is from Kos and the other from the island of Symi--they are my Stanford research samples in collaboration with Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, and, of course, not in ftDNA.

lifeisdandy
07-05-2016, 03:39 AM
While Egypt certainly does have some pretty rare J1 lineages, most of the J1 in Upper Egypt (and Sinai) is of Arabian origin and is tied to clusters with TMRCAs which do not predate the last 2,000 years (BY86, FGC1696, etc). Obviously, the latter doesn't count for your marker while the former does. I checked your sample and it seems your cluster's TMRCA is roughly 4,500 years old, several possible scenarios can explain its distribution, all involve an arrival into Egypt from the Sinai and the Levant (unless J1 emerged in North Africa, which would be quite unusual and unexpected).

So is my cluster originally from what is present day arabia?

lifeisdandy
07-05-2016, 03:40 AM
One is from Kos and the other from the island of Symi--they are my Stanford research samples in collaboration with Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, and, of course, not in ftDNA.

Is their DYS436=11?

Babylon_74
07-05-2016, 06:07 AM
We have two samples from Rhodes/Kos region who are J1-P58 with YCII=17-22.


One is from Kos and the other from the island of Symi--they are my Stanford research samples in collaboration with Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, and, of course, not in ftDNA.

1016610167

Interesting stuff Roy,It seems those semi-genetically isolated "Doric" islands in Eastern Mediterranean sea hold some old isolated Anatolian J1-P58 lines.

Wouldn't surprise ma at all since we already knew from old genetic study (Paleolithic Y-haplogroup heritage predominates
in a Cretan highland plateau) that Crete island hold also some upstream J2a lines.

10168

Unfortunately we can not track the terminal SNP of (Heraklion) and (Lasithi) J1 traces.

royking
07-05-2016, 01:06 PM
Is their DYS436=11?
We don't have DYS436 for these samples genotyped.

nee4speed111
07-12-2016, 11:44 PM
While Egypt certainly does have some pretty rare J1 lineages, most of the J1 in Upper Egypt (and Sinai) is of Arabian origin and is tied to clusters with TMRCAs which do not predate the last 2,000 years (BY86, FGC1696, etc). Obviously, the latter doesn't count for your marker while the former does. I checked your sample and it seems your cluster's TMRCA is roughly 4,500 years old, several possible scenarios can explain its distribution, all involve an arrival into Egypt from the Sinai and the Levant (unless J1 emerged in North Africa, which would be quite unusual and unexpected).

Are there any studies on Egyptian and Sudanese J1 haplogroups and their origins?

lifeisdandy
07-13-2016, 05:22 PM
Are there any studies on Egyptian and Sudanese J1 haplogroups and their origins?

J1 most likely entered Sudan and Ethiopia in neolithic times.. or 2k years ago through arabian tribes...

Agamemnon
07-13-2016, 09:15 PM
Are there any studies on Egyptian and Sudanese J1 haplogroups and their origins?

None that I'm aware of, no.

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 12:23 PM
My best assumption-till date- concerning those early J1 migrations to Africa

10627

10628

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 01:35 PM
My best assumption-till date- concerning those early J1 migrations to Africa

10627

10628

thats a very cool map..thanks for that..is that how it would have happened?

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 02:25 PM
thats a very cool map..thanks for that..is that how it would have happened?

This is my hypothetical scenario (The Afroasiatic J1 Loop),a theoretical J1 early migrations map .It's not finalized and still under studies and successive updates ,keeping in mind that the Amharic results were probably your genetic cousins and P56 positive due to their distinctive modal

DYS393=12
DYS390=24
DYS19=14
DYS391=11
DYS385=12-19
DYS388=15
DYS439=11
DYS389i=13
DYS392=11

10630

while some of the J1 Ethiopian/Dawro people are more likely P58 positive and maybe even positive to one of its early derivatives(Z1865?)due to their distinctive modal

DYS390=26
DYS385=12-17


10631

On the other hand the subclades of J1 Nubians and J1 Beja People are still a undiscovered unlike the recent Arabized J1 migrations of Gaalien (J1>P58>L858>FGC11>FGC1695>L222>By2) and Masalit (J1>P58>L858>YSC0000076)

10632

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 03:32 PM
This is my hypothetical scenario (The Afroasiatic J1 Loop),a theoretical J1 early migrations map .It's not finalized and still under studies and successive updates ,keeping in mind that the Amharic results were probably your genetic cousins and P56 positive due to their distinctive modal

DYS393=12
DYS390=24
DYS19=14
DYS391=11
DYS385=12-19
DYS388=15
DYS439=11
DYS389i=13
DYS392=11

10630

while some of the J1 Ethiopian/Dawro people are more likely P58 positive and maybe even positive to one of its early derivatives(Z1865?)due to their distinctive modal

DYS390=26
DYS385=12-17


10631

On the other hand the subclades of J1 Nubians and J1 Beja People are still a undiscovered unlike the recent Arabized J1 migrations of Gaalien (J1>P58>L858>FGC11>FGC1695>L222>By2) and Masalit (J1>P58>L858>YSC0000076)

10632

so based on this you are saying my results are closer to nubian j1 than arabian j1?

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 03:47 PM
so based on this you are saying my results are closer to nubian j1 than arabian j1?

Even though what you said may looks tempting, I can not assure that 100% since we do not know the terminal SNP of any J1 Nubians .
I can only predict with some certainty that Nubians "can" be an upstream J1>P58 line and probably the Beja J1>P58 or J1>P56 .Only By testing J1 Beja and J1 Nubians their secrets can be unfold!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beja_people

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 04:22 PM
Even though what you said may looks tempting, I can not assure that 100% since we do not know the terminal SNP of any J1 Nubians .
I can only predict with some certainty that Nubians "can" be an upstream J1>P58 line and probably the Beja J1>P58 or J1>P56 .Only By testing J1 Beja and J1 Nubians their secrets can be unfold!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nubians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beja_people

Agamemnon told me that the likely origin of my cluster was northern arabia with an entrance into sinai peninsula at some point... and that my ancestors were very likely the earliest semitic speakers who probably spoke an ancient north arabian language...

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 04:47 PM
Agamemnon told me that the likely origin of my cluster was northern arabia with an entrance into sinai peninsula at some point... and that my ancestors were very likely the earliest semitic speakers who probably spoke an ancient north arabian language...

Since we are all setting and testing theoretical hypothesis each researcher has his own set of evidences and his own geographical explanations for your genetic line.

Personally I do not find anything "Arabian" or "Proto-Semitic" in your genetic Coptic sample philologically speaking.Actually I'm tempted to say even your Arabic matches are probably "Arabized".

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 05:11 PM
Since we are all setting and testing theoretical hypothesis each researcher has his own set of evidences and his own geographical explanations for your genetic line.

Personally I do not find anything "Arabian" or "Proto-Semitic" in your genetic Coptic sample philologically speaking.Actually I'm tempted to say even your Arabic matches are probably "Arabized".

what tempts you to say this? I ordered a big y test so would the results be able to tell us more?

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 05:26 PM
what tempts you to say this? I ordered a big y test so would the results be able to tell us more?




J1 Haplogroup is much older than of all those relatively "modern" historic names such as Arabs,Copts,Hebrews,Nubians and Beja people...etc.

Dear lifeisdandy .You can see it this way.How old your P58 sub-clade ? then compare it with the oldest mention in history for (Arabs)?


a big Y test will definitely help clarifying the details of your sample ,But if further J1 Copts and J1 Nubians and J1 Beja will test their terminal SNP in the future this will help much more.

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 05:39 PM
Dear lifeisdandy .You can see it this way.How old your P58 sub-clade ? then compare it with the oldest mention in history for (Arabs)?


a big Y test will definitely help clarifying the details of your sample ,But if further J1 Copts and J1 Nubians and J1 Beja will test their terminal SNP in the future this will help much more.

My main goal with all of this is to know the origin of my cluster and what civilization is associated with my cluster...that is what I want to know

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 05:53 PM
My main goal with all of this is to know the origin of my cluster and what civilization is associated with my cluster...that is what I want to know

Great....

I can say with confidence that your relatively closest ((Arabic/Yemeni)) genetic line are the Khawlani Tribal line from (Jebr/Khawlan).

This South Arabian Yemeni tribe was mentioned in an ancient Sabaean inscription named Sirwah inscription and numbered ((Glaser 1000B))describing the conquerers and campaigns by king Karib'il Watar.

"جبرم" "جبر" أتباع "يعتق ذ خولن" "يعتق ذو خولان"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirwah

This P58 genetic line is mentioned in my map.Kindly check it again for further details.

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 06:25 PM
Great....

I can say with confidence that your relatively closest ((Arabic/Yemeni)) genetic line are the Khawlani Tribal line from (Jebr/Khawlan).

This South Arabian Yemeni tribe was mentioned in an ancient Sabaean inscription named Sirwah inscription and numbered ((Glaser 1000B))describing the conquerers and campaigns by king Karib'il Watar.

"جبرم" "جبر" أتباع "يعتق ذ خولن" "يعتق ذو خولان"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirwah

This P58 genetic line is mentioned in my map.Kindly check it again for further details.

so what does this say about the origin of my cluster?

Agamemnon
07-25-2016, 06:34 PM
Dear lifeisdandy .You can see it this way.How old your P58 sub-clade ? then compare it with the oldest mention in history for (Arabs)?

The TMRCA of her cluster is around 2,100 years old, in other words about the same TMRCA estimates we get for loads of other Arabian lineages under FGC1723, YSC76 and other branches of YSC234. Taking this cluster's basal status on the P58 tree into account, it is quite similar to L93, the only major difference is its more northerly distribution.


Great....

I can say with confidence that your relatively closest ((Arabic/Yemeni)) genetic line are the Khawlani Tribal line from (Jebr/Khawlan).

This South Arabian Yemeni tribe was mentioned in an ancient Sabaean inscription named Sirwah inscription and numbered ((Glaser 1000B))describing the conquerers and campaigns by king Karib'il Watar.

"جبرم" "جبر" أتباع "يعتق ذ خولن" "يعتق ذو خولان"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirwah

This P58 genetic line is mentioned in my map.Kindly check it again for further details.

Her cluster is equally close to the cluster formed by the Bani Shihhuh under Z1885 (M7651), now you could tentatively argue that this suggests a Qahtanite origin, nevertheless tribal pedigree ought not to be taken literally.

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 06:46 PM
This is fun. It's like detective work. Although I would still like a more clear idea on whether or not my paternal ancestors were arabians or not...

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 06:58 PM
The TMRCA of her cluster is around 2,100 years old, in other words about the same TMRCA estimates we get for loads of other Arabian lineages under FGC1723, YSC76 and other branches of YSC234. Taking this cluster's basal status on the P58 tree into account, it is quite similar to L93, the only major difference is its more northerly distribution.



Her cluster is equally close to the cluster formed by the Bani Shihhuh under Z1885 (M7651), now you could tentatively argue that this suggests a Qahtanite origin, nevertheless tribal pedigree ought not to be taken literally.

but if my cluster is more northernly..dont we fall under the north arabian tribal confederations?

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 10:42 PM
The TMRCA of her cluster is around 2,100 years old, in other words about the same TMRCA estimates we get for loads of other Arabian lineages under FGC1723, YSC76 and other branches of YSC234. Taking this cluster's basal status on the P58 tree into account, it is quite similar to L93, the only major difference is its more northerly distribution.


I can not compare an extremely rare Hijazi P58 genetic line to the huge Arabian genetic clusters under YSC76 or L93.
This can be an isolated limited African migration to western Arabia .A deported soldier during Aelius Gallus expedition or a frankincense and myrrh merchant/sailor who knows?




Her cluster is equally close to the cluster formed by the Bani Shihhuh under Z1885 (M7651), now you could tentatively argue that this suggests a Qahtanite origin, nevertheless tribal pedigree ought not to be taken literally


Absolutely,tribal or religious pedigree ought not to be taken literally.
Actually the Omani Shihuh tribe falls under different Haplogroups (E-V22) and different J1 subclades (Z644 and Z1885).I wouldn't be tempted to suggest a Qahtanite origin for a basal split P58 Coptic sample.This doesn't make sense at all.

lifeisdandy
07-25-2016, 10:51 PM
I can not compare an extremely rare Hijazi P58 genetic line to the huge Arabian genetic clusters under YSC76 or L93.
This can be an isolated limited African migration to western Arabia .A deported soldier during Aelius Gallus expedition or a frankincense and myrrh merchant/sailor who knows?





Absolutely,tribal or religious pedigree ought not to be taken literally.
Actually the Omani Shihuh tribe falls under different Haplogroups (E-V22) and different J1 subclades (Z644 and Z1885).I wouldn't be tempted to suggest a Qahtanite origin for a basal split P58 Coptic sample.This doesn't make sense at all.

You still havent answered where my cluster would have originated though and how I share a common paternal ancestor with two hijazis. This is also assuming my cluster originated in africa and then went to arabia....

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 11:02 PM
You still havent answered where my cluster would have originated though and how I share a common paternal ancestor with two hijazis. This is also assuming my cluster originated in africa and then went to arabia....

I already answered that in the map and in a PM.I don't believe that your cluster is an "Arabian" genetic cluster .I believe your MRCA is part of prehistoric afro-asiatic J1 migration.I thought I already told you that more than once?

Having genetic matches on the other shores of the Red Sea can not be only a unidirectional migration from Arabia to ancient Egyptian geography,It can be the other way around.

Babylon_74
07-25-2016, 11:12 PM
I already answered that in the map and in a PM.I don't believe that your cluster is an "Arabian" genetic cluster .I believe your MRCA is part of prehistoric afro-asiatic J1 migration.I thought I already told you that more than once?

Having genetic matches on the other shores of the Red Sea can not be only a unidirectional migration from Arabia to ancient Egyptian geography,It can be the other way around.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romans_in_Arabia

lifeisdandy
07-26-2016, 02:34 AM
I already answered that in the map and in a PM.I don't believe that your cluster is an "Arabian" genetic cluster .I believe your MRCA is part of prehistoric afro-asiatic J1 migration.I thought I already told you that more than once?

Having genetic matches on the other shores of the Red Sea can not be only a unidirectional migration from Arabia to ancient Egyptian geography,It can be the other way around.

Ah ok thats very different from what agamemnon is saying... I guess we have to wait for the big y test results to know furthef

lifeisdandy
07-27-2016, 06:27 PM
You still havent answered where my cluster would have originated though and how I share a common paternal ancestor with two hijazis. This is also assuming my cluster originated in africa and then went to arabia....

But you are saying this merchant or sailor was egyptian in origin?

Babylon_74
07-28-2016, 01:52 PM
But you are saying this merchant or sailor was egyptian in origin?

Yes. He could possibly had J1 Coptic Egyptian origins

lifeisdandy
07-28-2016, 03:07 PM
Yes. He could possibly had J1 Coptic Egyptian origins

I guess we will find out the truth once I get my big y test... so far most people think that my line is ancient north west arabian so we will see which is more likely...

lifeisdandy
07-29-2016, 07:02 PM
anyone else have any other explanations?

lifeisdandy
08-03-2016, 08:06 PM
I already answered that in the map and in a PM.I don't believe that your cluster is an "Arabian" genetic cluster .I believe your MRCA is part of prehistoric afro-asiatic J1 migration.I thought I already told you that more than once?

Having genetic matches on the other shores of the Red Sea can not be only a unidirectional migration from Arabia to ancient Egyptian geography,It can be the other way around.

When would this afro asiatic j1 migration have happened? In what part of time?

lifeisdandy
08-05-2016, 03:31 PM
I dont know if this means anything but my father also has 2 matches on ftdna of 2 other saudis ... im not sure of their tribes but they both belong to j2.. so we dont share a common paternal ancestor but the connections to saudis are strong.. .

lifeisdandy
08-16-2016, 02:56 AM
I got the big y results for my bro... Who can analyze it and how?

King
08-16-2016, 03:04 AM
I got the big y results for my bro... Who can analyze it and how?

Try Victar from the ftdna J1 Project.

RCO
08-16-2016, 11:15 AM
YFull is also a very good option
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J1/

lifeisdandy
08-16-2016, 11:48 AM
YFull is also a very good option
https://www.yfull.com/tree/J1/

what does yfull do?

RCO
08-16-2016, 12:42 PM
I think it's the best interpretation of your Y-DNA Big Y or FGC BAM.file and they have a simplified and user-friendly SNP workflow platform with the best public phylogenetic tree. In my J1 FGC6064 case they are years ahead of ISOGG or FTDNA.

You can read and take a tour there
https://www.yfull.com/

lifeisdandy
08-16-2016, 02:33 PM
I think it's the best interpretation of your Y-DNA Big Y or FGC BAM.file and they have a simplified and user-friendly SNP workflow platform with the best public phylogenetic tree. In my J1 FGC6064 case they are years ahead of ISOGG or FTDNA.

You can read and take a tour there
https://www.yfull.com/

thank you..I just requested my bam file which will take about a week or two to receive and then ill upload it to yfull.com...

lifeisdandy
09-30-2016, 02:42 PM
Is J1-p58 considered a semitic marker?

lifeisdandy
10-02-2019, 09:44 PM
So I had a bigy test done on my brother for our ydna and no matches to be found nor any extra insight into where our clade comes from. Also the ydna j1 ftdna project wont open for me so I cant see if anyone has been added to our cluster. Very shitty that we still dont know where j1-p58 comes from.

hartaisarlag
10-02-2019, 10:06 PM
So I had a bigy test done on my brother for our ydna and no matches to be found nor any extra insight into where our clade comes from. Also the ydna j1 ftdna project wont open for me so I cant see if anyone has been added to our cluster. Very shitty that we still dont know where j1-p58 comes from.

I would suggest uploading to YFull.

lifeisdandy
10-02-2019, 10:13 PM
I would suggest uploading to YFull.

Ok ill try that now

lifeisdandy
10-02-2019, 10:39 PM
I would suggest uploading to YFull.

Damn its not free. Guess I have to wait.

Táltos
10-05-2019, 04:57 AM
So I had a bigy test done on my brother for our ydna and no matches to be found nor any extra insight into where our clade comes from. Also the ydna j1 ftdna project wont open for me so I cant see if anyone has been added to our cluster. Very shitty that we still dont know where j1-p58 comes from.

Wow, so he wasn't anything downstream of J1-P58? I know the J1 Project has lots of issues loading for me too. Try changing the markers to view on the project page to 25 or 37 from the default 12 marker. That should get some results to load for you.

lifeisdandy
10-05-2019, 04:59 AM
Wow, so he wasn't anything downstream of J1-P58? I know the J1 Project has lots of issues loading for me too. Try changing the markers to view on the project page to 25 or 37 from the default 12 marker. That should get some results to load for you.

It loads for me now. Our cluster is still just my brother and these two saudi guys from hejaz. We are negative for anything below j1-p58.

Táltos
10-05-2019, 05:05 AM
It loads for me now. Our cluster is still just my brother and these two saudi guys from hejaz. We are negative for anything below j1-p58.

Hopefully Y Full can determine more if you decide to upload there.

lifeisdandy
11-01-2019, 07:58 PM
I still have no matches :(

Alanson
11-01-2019, 08:06 PM
I still have no matches :(

Hey 7abibty. It's me, Moody900 from the ABF and theapricity. Do you have the spreadsheet that you used in the other thread?
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18464-I-m-a-Copt-and-these-are-my-G25-results

I want to experiment with some things in G25.

lifeisdandy
11-01-2019, 10:32 PM
Hey 7abibty. It's me, Moody900 from the ABF and theapricity. Do you have the spreadsheet that you used in the other thread?
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18464-I-m-a-Copt-and-these-are-my-G25-results

I want to experiment with some things in G25.

Do you mean my coordinates habibi?

Alanson
11-02-2019, 09:27 AM
Do you mean my coordinates habibi?

No, the spreadsheet that you used in the thread like Ancient_Egypt, SSA and etc.

lifeisdandy
11-03-2019, 04:21 PM
No, the spreadsheet that you used in the thread like Ancient_Egypt, SSA and etc.

Someone had done it for me.. do you know jemeldz from anthroscape?

Squad
11-08-2019, 06:58 AM
I still have no matches :(

Please do a big Y, what are you waiting for ?

lifeisdandy
11-08-2019, 06:11 PM
Please do a big Y, what are you waiting for ?

I did do it!

Squad
11-15-2019, 07:24 AM
I did do it!

Are you on the tree or not yet?

lifeisdandy
11-16-2019, 07:29 PM
How do i check
Are you on the tree or not yet?

Theramster
11-22-2019, 04:50 PM
Hi Llifeisdandy,

Nice to see your posts again.

How did you do on the new 23andme update? They now have 'Coptic Egyptian' as a distinct category.

lifeisdandy
12-29-2019, 12:16 AM
Hey there... i am 67.7% coptic, 10.4% egyptian, 10.4% levantine and 6.67% peninsular arab... nothing else.. u??

lifeisdandy
03-20-2020, 11:32 PM
Ftdna change my brothers ydna to j-ZS12454. Anyone know anything about it?

RCO
03-21-2020, 02:12 AM
You are the first branch dowstream of P58, a rare group !
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/J;name=J-ZS12454

ShpataEMadhe
04-16-2020, 10:39 AM
People forget what an impact the Muslim conquests had on north Africa and middle East, they changed cultures and languages forever and of course they also would have changed dna for 2 reasons:

1. Populations were much smaller back then, easier to leave a long lasting genetic imprint. Especially with such long lasting conquests over 700 years

2. The arabs killed off a lot of males and so a lot of their women were left behind, naturally they would have kids with some of these women. Especially when you factor that they took land and money from the inhabitants, money makes the world go round

I think people also need to be careful in only assuming P58 or FGC12 being linked to arab expansion, arabs have more diversity than that in their dna

lifeisdandy
04-28-2020, 08:42 PM
I reached out to FTDNA to ask 2 questions.

At 12 markers, I share a common paternal ancestor with a man from Saudi Arabia who I am waiting to share his tribe with me. I don't want to reveal his name but his last name is a tribal one.

On my big y test, I share my block tree with an anonymous person but who also shares my father's rare ydna. I asked ftdna what the likely origin of my dad's snp is and this is what he said:

"Hello,

All Y-DNA matches are strictly paternal ancestors.

The most likely place of origin of J-ZS12454 per current data is Egypt around the mid-late 3rd millennium B.C.

Please see attached image.

Best regards, "
https://imgur.com/LyF2qHv

lifeisdandy
06-05-2020, 07:28 PM
ok so there is another person in my cluster now who is from Iraq... southern Iraq to be exact. This changes the origin of my cluster they said.

lifeisdandy
06-06-2020, 01:23 AM
Any thought?

lifeisdandy
06-06-2020, 07:42 PM
Guys this is important because he is more basal than we are...

RCO
06-06-2020, 09:00 PM
J1-L136 and J1-P58 came from the North, they came from NW Iraq, N Syria, SE Anatolia, W Iran, so the first basal branch dowstream of P58 were born around that regions and moved to the South, SW and just like several other rare J1 branches we still can find some in Iraq.

lifeisdandy
06-06-2020, 09:18 PM
J1-L136 and J1-P58 came from the North, they came from NW Iraq, N Syria, SE Anatolia, W Iran, so the first basal branch dowstream of P58 were born around that regions and moved to the South, SW and just like several other rare J1 branches we still can find some in Iraq.

But how is our parent subclass from Iraq and i am from Egypt? Is the origin of that subclade Iraqi? What is the trmca between me and the Iraqi?

RCO
06-06-2020, 09:45 PM
You can join YFull or try to calculate the SNPs in FTDNA's Y-DNA Haplotree.

lifeisdandy
07-05-2020, 07:47 PM
I have new updates on my cluster. I reached out to a ydna big y specialist at FTDNA to help me find the origin of my cluster. I share my cluster with two saydi guys from mecca and medina and an iraqi..he confirmed the origin of my cluster to be northern saudi arabia based on migrations routes. What are your thoughts? My kit is now in yfull as well.

RagingBull
08-01-2020, 02:22 PM
You are descended from Arab people like most Copts today. I wonder what happened to the original Egyptians.

TheIncredibleHulk
09-24-2020, 10:27 AM
I have new updates on my cluster. I reached out to a ydna big y specialist at FTDNA to help me find the origin of my cluster. I share my cluster with two saydi guys from mecca and medina and an iraqi..he confirmed the origin of my cluster to be northern saudi arabia based on migrations routes. What are your thoughts? My kit is now in yfull as well.

Then you have an Arabian ancestor that migrated to Egypt. When did it happen exactly is unknown at this point. Southern Iraqis are mostly of Arabian origins based on their genetics due on the fact that the Mongols created a demographic vacuum in Mesopotamia where we see Kurds and Arabians begin to fill the lands. Of course, there are few survivors in the region like Assyrians and Northern Iraqi Arabs who are Arabized natives, but they're not the majority. Copts like Jews are an ethnoreligious grouping, and anyone can be ethnically Coptic by converting to the Coptic church which is not unusual for a foreigner like an Arabian to do either.