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Angoliga
07-12-2016, 05:33 AM
The purpose of this thread is to share any indirect SSA linguistic similarities you've observed in other parts of the world.




Below are a few words I've found to have either a literal or similar meaning in either my mother (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakwa_people) or father's tongue (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aringa_language) in Uganda:


Ayiko (Lugbara\Aringa, Uganda) = Happiness, Joy (common male name; female derivative = Ayikoru (http://pitchingthetentinuganda.blogspot.ca/2015/04/ayikoru.html))
Aiko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiko)(Japanese) = Child of Love (common female name)

Kakwa (Kakwa, Uganda\Sudan\DRC) = thorns, sharp bite (http://kwekudee-tripdownmemorylane.blogspot.ca/2013/07/kakwa-people-african-nilotic-warrior.html)
Kakwa (Cree, Canada) = Porcupine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakwa)

Kanada (Kakwa, Uganda\Sudan\DRC) = whose land? (posed as a question)
Kanata (Iroquois, Canada) = settlement, village





I've heard of Nilotic languages having linguistic similarities to other East-Asian languages but haven't come across any other specific words. More often than not, it's Japanese words that sound\look the most familiar to Ugandan\Kenyan surnames. Some East-Asians have mistaken me for Japanese before meeting in person; a few other Ugandans have jokingly shared the same experience.

Given the limited permutations of letters in these short words, I suppose it wouldn't be a surprise to find similar meanings in several other languages -- I still find some of these coincidences to be quite chilling.

Agamemnon
07-12-2016, 06:56 PM
Coincidental similarities are more common than what most people think, IMO the funniest ones are found between ancient and modern languages.

Morci
07-12-2016, 08:55 PM
The phonetic similarity between Semitic, African, and European languages for onion is interesting.

Hebrew, Arabic: bṣl
Hausa: albasa
Yoruba: alubosa (unsure about the origin)
Portuguese, Spanish: cebola, cebolla

Angoliga
07-14-2016, 02:32 AM
The phonetic similarity between Semitic, African, and European languages for onion is interesting.

Hebrew, Arabic: bṣl
Hausa: albasa
Yoruba: alubosa (unsure about the origin)
Portuguese, Spanish: cebola, cebolla

Perhaps the Spanish\Portuguese\Arabic connection is through the Morrish occupation in the Iberian Peninsula? -- az˙car (sugar), arroz (rice), aceite (oil) would be other food related examples taken from Arabic that are still used in Spanish.

I recall the word "abuela" in Spanish class for the word grandma; in my mother's tongue which borrows many words from southern Sudanese Arabic, it's "abuba". Thinking there might be an Arabic connection, I'd ask other friends who spoke Arabic what their equivalent was, but Egyptians, Jordanians, Lebanese etc. all had different variants -- I recently bumped into a few Northern Sudanese who've confirmed they use "Habuba".

Then again perhaps that's sheer coincidence -- I've heard "baluba" is used in polish *a bit harder to make a connection there lol

Angoliga
07-14-2016, 02:33 AM
IMO the funniest ones are found between ancient and modern languages.

Oh really? That's cool - feel free to share any examples :pop2:

Almagest
07-25-2016, 08:04 PM
I remember watching a man speaking in Japanese with English subtitles. The word I think he used to describe rope/wire sounded like 'harig', similar to the Somali word 'xarig'.

I also find that the word sugar sounds similar in a lot of languages. Sonkor (Somali), Cukr (Czech), Cukier (Polish) etc

Ebizur
07-26-2016, 06:42 AM
I remember watching a man speaking in Japanese with English subtitles. The word I think he used to describe rope/wire sounded like 'harig', similar to the Somali word 'xarig'.You have good ears, but the similarity is superficial. The Japanese word used in this case should be 針金 harigane "wire" < Japanese 針 hari "needle" + Japanese 金 kane "metal (especially gold = "yellow kane," silver = "white kane," iron = "black kane," or copper = "red kane"); money; a large bell (especially one at a temple that is struck by swinging a hammer that is suspended with ropes) or various other sorts of metallic percussion instruments; a carpenter's square; (to take something or someone as) a model, an exemplary ideal; being perpendicular, being at a right angle (to something), straight across (a river, etc.); a branding iron (for horses or cattle); a solution of iron filings dissolved in tea, vinegar, sake, etc. used to stain the teeth black (the inhabitants of the Japanese islands have long had habits of knocking out, ripping out, or otherwise damaging teeth or painting teeth black)."


I also find that the word sugar sounds similar in a lot of languages. Sonkor (Somali), Cukr (Czech), Cukier (Polish) etcThe European words for "sugar" are all ultimately derived from Sanskrit via Persian and Arabic (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sugar).

Agamemnon
07-28-2016, 02:22 PM
Oh really? That's cool - feel free to share any examples :pop2:

The Ge'ez 2nd person singular-masculine pronoun አንተ (ʾanta) is identical to the Japanese personal pronoun あんた (anta), also meaning "you".

drobbah
07-28-2016, 03:31 PM
The phonetic similarity between Semitic, African, and European languages for onion is interesting.

Hebrew, Arabic: bṣl
Hausa: albasa
Yoruba: alubosa (unsure about the origin)
Portuguese, Spanish: cebola, cebolla

Somalis also say basal for onion.I think it is just Arabic influence not a mere coincidence

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
09-05-2016, 08:49 PM
As a Swahili speaking Kenyan I've noticed similarities in my language with Arabic, Portuguese and Persian words. You'll thank me later for teaching you Swahili :P

Swahili comes from the Arabic word Sahil which means coasts
Sita comes from the Arabic word sita which means six
Tisa comes from the Arabic word Tisa which means Seven
Chai comes from the Persian word Chai which means Tea
Achari comes from the Persian word Achari which means Pickle
Diwani comes from the Persian word Diwani which means Councillor
Serikali comes from the Persian word Serikali which means Government
Meza comes from the Portuguese word Meza which means Table
Gereza comes from the Portuguese word Gereza which means Prison
Pesa comes from the Portuguese word Peso which means Money

ThirdTerm
09-07-2016, 08:19 PM
Robert Mugabe and Shinzo Abe have similar surnames and the suffix '-be' denotes a tribe in Japanese. Muga is a popular last name mostly concentrated in Kenya, which means being confident in one truth in Kisii and ecstasy or rupture in Japanese. Eurasian haologroups M and R can be found at a frequency of 10% in Kenya compared to 45% in Ethiopia. M is the single most common mtDNA haplogroup in Asia, which represents on average about 70% of the maternal lineage in Japan. M is also the most common maternal haplogroup for the Dravidians and the Dravidian languages are quite similar to the Japanese language. The Dravidians are thought to have originated in Nubia (Winters 2008) and the M people could have spoken the same ancient language for some time before splitting into different language groups.



The archaeological and molecular evidence provides footprints of a recent hg M ancestral migration from Nubia to India. The existence of the L3a-M motif in the Senegambia characterized by the DdeI site np 10394 and AluI site np 10397 in haplotype AF24; the presence of the nucleotides characteristic of the Indian macrohaplogroup M in Africa and Arabia; and the reality that M1 does not descend from an Asian M macrohaplogroup (Sun et al. 2005) make a ‘back migration’ of M1 to Africa highly unlikely.

The presence of Indian M sequences in Africa, Arabia, Iran and Yemen (Gonzalez et al.. 2006) in conjunction with the linguistic (Aravanan 1976, 1979; Upadhyaya and Upadhyaya 1976, 1979), archaeological (Lal 1963; Lahovary 1963; Rao 1972) and anthropological (Nayar 1977; Sergent 1995; Sastri 1966) evidences suggest that the Dravidian speakers formerly lived in Nubia and migrated to India over 5000 years ago and the Indian M macrohaplogroups do not have an in situ origin.

http://faculty.ferris.edu/ISAR/krepublishers.pdf

Power77
11-03-2016, 07:56 PM
I've heard of Nilotic languages having linguistic similarities to other East-Asian languages but haven't come across any other specific words. More often than not, it's Japanese words that sound\look the most familiar to Ugandan\Kenyan surnames. Some East-Asians have mistaken me for Japanese before meeting in person; a few other Ugandans have jokingly shared the same experience.

Y-DNA DE connection perhaps:P?

Ebizur
11-04-2016, 08:06 AM
Y-DNA DE connection perhaps:P?Most likely it is an illusory effect of the similar phonologies of Japonic and African languages. Austronesian languages also tend to be similar in many aspects: a very simple phonology with few distinctive vowel and consonant phonemes, an overwhelming predominance of open syllables, multisyllabic word forms, a tendency to have prenasalized voiced consonants, and so forth. In addition, Japonic languages have a register tone or so-called "pitch accent" prosody that is similar to that of many African languages. (As far as I know, this last similarity is not shared with Austronesian languages; it is shared with Ainu and, historically, with Korean, but these last two languages tend to be quite different in regards to other aspects of phonology.) Anyway, the phonological resemblance between Japanese and African languages is almost certainly coincidental, though it may result in a greater-than-average rate of false friends (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend).

Angoliga
03-01-2017, 01:15 AM
Robert Mugabe and Shinzo Abe have similar surnames and the suffix '-be' denotes a tribe in Japanese. Muga is a popular last name mostly concentrated in Kenya, which means being confident in one truth in Kisii and ecstasy or rupture in Japanese. Eurasian haologroups M and R can be found at a frequency of 10% in Kenya compared to 45% in Ethiopia. M is the single most common mtDNA haplogroup in Asia, which represents on average about 70% of the maternal lineage in Japan. M is also the most common maternal haplogroup for the Dravidians and the Dravidian languages are quite similar to the Japanese language. The Dravidians are thought to have originated in Nubia (Winters 2008) and the M people could have spoken the same ancient language for some time before splitting into different language groups.

Funny you mentioned this long ago - I glanced up at your post before posting this youtube clip relating Tamil to a Chadic language spoken in far northern Cameroon: Cameroonians Speak Tamil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk)

The similarities demonstrated by the narrator are quite shocking -- What chance that this was the top comment:

"One of my friend who had been working near a place called YEI in South Sudan for almost 3 years was amazed to see the tribal people speak pure Tamil words mixed with their slang. for Ex. Maangai for Mango, Nilavuu for Moon, Megam for Cloud, Mazhai for Rain. Its really interesting to know the connection between Tamil in Africa."


I saw this clip sometime ago but it came back to memory after all the Ancestral_South_Eurasian (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?9831-Ancient-Eurasia-K6-Deducing-Traces-of-Back-to-Africa-Migrations&p=216648#post216648)-talk -- I wonder if this relates in anyway shape or form to the discussed non-negligible affinity of the ancient south indian cluster among nilotes and other Africans.

This is all rather serendipitous, the predominant ethnic group in Yei speak a similar dialect to my father's Central-Sudanic language, my family actually fled to Yei as refugees following the Idi Amin conflict in the 80s (*my eldest sister was born in Yei). There's been a proven connection between Central-Sudanic speakers in S-Sudan/Uganda and current Chadic speakers in Central/West Africa ~2500kya (Tishkoff, 2010 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2947357/#SD2)) :

"These results are consistent with linguistic and
archeological data, suggesting a possible common ancestry of Nilo-Saharan speaking
populations from an eastern Sudanese homeland within the past ~10,500 years, with
subsequent bi-directional migration westward to Lake Chad and southward into modernday
southern Sudan, and more recent migration eastward into Kenya and Tanzania
~3,000 ya (giving rise to Southern Nilotic speakers) and westward into Chad ~2,500 ya
(giving rise to Central Sudanic speakers) (S62, S65, S67, S74). A proposed migration of
proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers ~7,000 ya from the central Sahara into the Lake Chad
Basin may have caused many western Nilo-Saharans to shift to Chadic languages (S99).
Our data suggest that this shift was not accompanied by large amounts of Afroasiatic
16 gene flow. Analyses of mtDNA provide evidence for divergence ~8,000 ya of a distinct
mtDNA lineage present at high frequency in the Chadic populations and suggest an East
African origin for most mtDNA lineages in these populations (S100)"


Here's an mtDNA thread (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?241-L2d2-in-French-Guiana-and-beyond) with posts I made demonstrating the "Chadic" connection to my paternal-grandmother's rare L2e haplogroup.

Deftextra
03-18-2017, 04:33 PM
I was watching a film which contained the hindi language.
Was suprised to hear the word dukaan meaning shop in somali. So I did a quick google search:
dukaan ∼ दूकान
iiraan ∼ ईरान

There are many more loan words like this which are sometimes interchangable and have origin in arabic\hindi(&urdu)\persian .

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
03-18-2017, 05:41 PM
I was watching a film which contained the hindi language.
Was suprised to hear the word dukaan meaning shop in somali. So I did a quick google search:
dukaan ∼ दूकान
iiraan ∼ ईरान

There are many more loan words like this which are sometimes interchangable and have origin in arabic\hindi(&urdu)\persian .

Intetesting, in swahili we call shop duka wont be suprised if it borrowed from the hindi language considering my countries history.

kikkk
03-18-2017, 10:13 PM
Dukkan is the Arabic word for shop, it's interesting that the word traveled so far to India and Kenya.
In Tunisia we use the word dukkan to describe cellar, while shop is called maghaza.

Deftextra
03-19-2017, 03:02 AM
Dukkan is the Arabic word for shop, it's interesting that the word traveled so far to India and Kenya.
In Tunisia we use the word dukkan to describe cellar, while shop is called maghaza.

Thats funny. In somali (at least xamar dialect) dukaan refers to a shop, while magaazin refers to a cellar. I guess this also varies in different arabic speaking countries?

Edit: Never really checked, but always wondered if the word magazine in english was related to the word magaazin (in somali) and apprentely it is:


late 16th century: from French magasin, from Italian magazzino, from Arabic maḵzin, maḵzan ‘storehouse’, from ḵazana ‘store up’. The term originally meant ‘store’ and was often used from the mid 17th century in the title of books providing information useful to particular groups of people, whence sense 1 (mid 18th century). Sense 3, a contemporary specialization of the original meaning, gave rise to sense 2 in the mid 18th century.

Targum
03-19-2017, 04:40 AM
Thats funny. In somali (at least xamar dialect) dukaan refers to a shop, while magaazin refers to a cellar. I guess this also varies in different arabic speaking countries?

Edit: Never really checked, but always wondered if the word magazine in english was related to the word magaazin (in somali) and apprentely it is:


In Hebrew dukhan דוכן, used in the Mishnah, means platform or podium; makhsan מכסן means warehouse or storehouse, borrowed from Arabic in approx. 10th century.Store, as in shop is hhanut חנות, also fom the Mishnah period (200 B.C.E to about 200 C.E.)

Angoliga
03-24-2017, 04:02 AM
This excerpt from an abstract of an older paper amuses me:

"...Phylogeographic analyses suggest that a large component of the present Khoisan gene pool is eastern African in origin and that Asia was the source of a back migration to sub-Saharan Africa. Haplogroup IX Y chromosomes (R1-M173 ?) appear to have been involved in such a migration, the traces of which can now be observed mostly in northern Cameroon."

*it's worth noting, this was examined from a pool of 608 male subjects from 22 African populations -- not the widest array of desirable population references but still extensive enough to emphasize the particularity with northern Cameroon; the full list of populations can be found in the paper.

A Back Migration from Asia to Sub-Saharan Africa Is Supported by High-Resolution Analysis of Human Y-Chromosome Haplotypes (http://www.cell.com/ajhg/abstract/S0002-9297(07)62513-0) (Cruciani, Fulvio et al. - The American Journal of Human Genetics , Volume 70 , Issue 5 , 1197 - 1214).




... youtube clip relating Tamil to a Chadic language spoken in far northern Cameroon: Cameroonians Speak Tamil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk)
The similarities demonstrated by the narrator are quite shocking...[/spoiler]

What a coincidence that supposed strong South-Asian (Tamil) linguistic similarities would be found in the same region (Northern Cameroon) where Y-DNA evidence suggests an Asian back-to-Africa migration.

Here's an excerpt from a more recent paper (2013) that supports the same claim:

"Mother language or father language:

...The back migration of DE-M1 (YAP insertion) from Asia to Africa have already been proposed by Altheide and Hammer[48] and Hammer et al.[49, 50]; however, this has been questioned by Underhill et al.[51] and Underhill and Roseman[52]. Nevertheless, the high frequencies of haplogroup R1-M173 in Cameroon also supported the back migration from Asia to sub-Saharan Africa[53].

Inferring human history in East Asia from Y chromosomes. (http://investigativegenetics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2041-2223-4-11) (Investigative Genetics, 2013, Volume 4, Number 1, Page 1 - Chuan-Chao Wang, Hui Li).




...is this all sheer coincidence or a confluence of stacking evidence?




----------------

What chance that this was the top comment:

"One of my friend who had been working near a place called YEI in South Sudan for almost 3 years was amazed to see the tribal people speak pure Tamil words mixed with their slang. for Ex. Maangai for Mango, Nilavuu for Moon, Megam for Cloud, Mazhai for Rain. Its really interesting to know the connection between Tamil in Africa."


Concerning the same alleged linguistic similarities found across the Sahel in Southern Sudan, I asked a few local speakers of Nilotic dialects spoken south of Yei in the West-Nile region of Uganda (my mother and a few family friends:) - one noted that the Pojulu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pojulu_people)(Eastern Nilotic Speakers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Nilotic_languages)) of Yei use the term "Maanga" for mangos; however, they couldn't recognize any of the other words mentioned from that youtuber's comment -- I was hoping for something a little more astounding... "manga/mangaii" just seems like a word-play on "mango"

Angoliga
04-13-2017, 06:09 PM
This might be a stretch -- I'm not sure if these expressions would fall under linguistics but their presence outside of Africa fascinates me:



"Kissing of the teeth": “Le tchip” as the French call it, is a mark of annoyance, disapproval or disdain made by sucking air through the teeth through pursed lips while moving the tongue. Academics describe it as "velaric ingressive airstream involving closure at two points in the mouth".

This seems to be omnipresent throughout the African diaspora, IMO it's usually used more often and accentuated best by women -- African languages from the old world might have been outlawed and forgotten but this definitely stuck around.




Ululation: is a long, wavering, high-pitched vocal sound resembling a howl with a trilling quality. It is produced by emitting a high pitched loud voice accompanied with a rapid back and forth movement of the tongue and the uvula.

"Ululation is commonly practised in most of Africa, the Middle East and Central-to-South Asia. It occurs a few places in Europe, like Serbia, Cyprus, Malta and parts of Spain. It likewise takes place among the diaspora community originating from these areas. Ululation also occurs among Mizrahi Jews at all joyous occasions such as at a hachnasat sefer Torah (the dedication of a Torah scroll), circumcisions,[4] communal celebrations, weddings,[5][6] bar mitzvah[7] celebrations, and most of all at henna celebrations."

I thought this was a strictly African thing but later in life found it's done all over the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ululation#Around_the_world) -- there's still somewhat of a tropical pull for places where this traditional-expression exists, *minus a few exceptions.

I'd hear this on special occasions, weddings, praise and worship along with other celebrations. Interestingly enough, there's different techniques in different regions; some use more of the tongue than the throat to accentuate the sound -- some groups have men rather than women doing the ululation. I claim complete bias, I find nilotes do it the best -- this woman from Darfur (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1XADMZc8M) does it with the same gesture as Acholi women I've seen in Uganda; I guess raising of the hand gives some kind of added effect.




Tsk-tsk: sound effect made expressing disapproval or annoyance.

This one is pretty much everywhere but my folks do it very loudly, growing up it was nearly impossible to hear the news when watching a tragic breaking news event on TV. A Palestinian colleague at work is fond of making this expression, not quite as loud as my folks but still more audible than most Canadians :) I always tease her about it -- I'm guessing the amplification isn't that different throughout Africa and the Middle-East?

SWAHILLI_PRINCE16
12-08-2017, 01:14 PM
This might be a stretch -- I'm not sure if these expressions would fall under linguistics but their presence outside of Africa fascinates me:



"Kissing of the teeth": “Le tchip” as the French call it, is a mark of annoyance, disapproval or disdain made by sucking air through the teeth through pursed lips while moving the tongue. Academics describe it as "velaric ingressive airstream involving closure at two points in the mouth".

This seems to be omnipresent throughout the African diaspora, IMO it's usually used more often and accentuated best by women -- African languages from the old world might have been outlawed and forgotten but this definitely stuck around.




Ululation: is a long, wavering, high-pitched vocal sound resembling a howl with a trilling quality. It is produced by emitting a high pitched loud voice accompanied with a rapid back and forth movement of the tongue and the uvula.

"Ululation is commonly practised in most of Africa, the Middle East and Central-to-South Asia. It occurs a few places in Europe, like Serbia, Cyprus, Malta and parts of Spain. It likewise takes place among the diaspora community originating from these areas. Ululation also occurs among Mizrahi Jews at all joyous occasions such as at a hachnasat sefer Torah (the dedication of a Torah scroll), circumcisions,[4] communal celebrations, weddings,[5][6] bar mitzvah[7] celebrations, and most of all at henna celebrations."

I thought this was a strictly African thing but later in life found it's done all over the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ululation#Around_the_world) -- there's still somewhat of a tropical pull for places where this traditional-expression exists, *minus a few exceptions.

I'd hear this on special occasions, weddings, praise and worship along with other celebrations. Interestingly enough, there's different techniques in different regions; some use more of the tongue than the throat to accentuate the sound -- some groups have men rather than women doing the ululation. I claim complete bias, I find nilotes do it the best -- this woman from Darfur (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1XADMZc8M) does it with the same gesture as Acholi women I've seen in Uganda; I guess raising of the hand gives some kind of added effect.




Tsk-tsk: sound effect made expressing disapproval or annoyance.

This one is pretty much everywhere but my folks do it very loudly, growing up it was nearly impossible to hear the news when watching a tragic breaking news event on TV. A Palestinian colleague at work is fond of making this expression, not quite as loud as my folks but still more audible than most Canadians :) I always tease her about it -- I'm guessing the amplification isn't that different throughout Africa and the Middle-East?

Interesting, in Swahili we call the kiss teeth expression (Kusonya). The Swahili language has a lot of similarities with Congo Bantu languages as well as other languages. The Congo Bantu similaritis could be due to the Bantu Migration when on the Eastern part of Congo people started to migrate East words of Africa. Therefore, many of these migrants from the East part of Congo came to East Africa and tweaked a few words here and there but some of the words stayed the same.

This map below might be clearer than what I said above:

20317

I also wanted to share a few words from my language:

Farasi=Horse
Kabila=Tribe/clan
Asili=Ancestry
Simba=Lion
Salama=Peace
Surali=Trousers