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Wing Genealogist
07-17-2016, 05:53 PM
The Wiki project is also looking to explore autosomal DNA testing to see if it may be possible to identify autosomal DNA segments from Mayflower passengers & crew. This is an ambitious goal, which may end up not coming to fruition.

As I stated elsewhere, we only inherit autosomal DNA from some of our ancestors. More likely than not, we would not share any autosomal DNA with any one Mayflower passenger. But given the large population of folks who are interested in Pilgrim ancestry, it is likely that some of them would share such DNA from some passengers.

Wing Genealogist
07-17-2016, 05:56 PM
One possible type of "autosomal" DNA may be able to be utilized. The X-Chromosome has a unique inheritance where men receive only one copy from their mother, while women receive a pair of X-Chromosomes, one from each parent. This unique inheritance means that for some lines, there have been less recombination (and a higher chance of retaining DNA from the Mayflower passenger).

The key to X-Chromosome inheritance is that in you cannot have two generations of male descent (as a man only receives X-DNA from their mother). In an extreme example, going back and forth between male & female descents, we may be able to detect fairly significant DNA segments coming from the Mayflower passenger.

Pegasusphm1
09-14-2016, 05:31 AM
The Wiki project is also looking to explore autosomal DNA testing to see if it may be possible to identify autosomal DNA segments from Mayflower passengers & crew. This is an ambitious goal, which may end up not coming to fruition.

As I stated elsewhere, we only inherit autosomal DNA from some of our ancestors. More likely than not, we would not share any autosomal DNA with any one Mayflower passenger. But given the large population of folks who are interested in Pilgrim ancestry, it is likely that some of them would share such DNA from some passengers.

I dunno, I'm getting matches all the time on Ancestry from Barber line (Rhode Island) which is from Susannah Soule descendants. You have a wiki link?

Kwheaton
09-14-2016, 01:35 PM
I think it will be difficult to isolate atDNA inherited from Mayflower ancestors as there is much difficulty in ascribing to a particular ancestor this far back. It seems to me YDNA and mtDNA might be much more successful.

Wing Genealogist
09-14-2016, 03:47 PM
I think it will be difficult to isolate atDNA inherited from Mayflower ancestors as there is much difficulty in ascribing to a particular ancestor this far back. It seems to me YDNA and mtDNA might be much more successful.

No doubt it would be much more difficult to isolate autosomal DNA than it would Y-DNA and mtDNA. However, it would also be exponentially more important to isolate atDNA if at all possible (even if we are able to only isolate small fragments). Y-DNA and mtDNA only help a very small fraction of the descendants of Mayflower Passengers.

In the end, it may or may not be possible to isolate any atDNA, but we won't know unless it is attempted.

curiousII
09-17-2016, 12:53 AM
I've got my FF back today, pretty fast result as I ordered it on 8/30. MyOrigins isn't done yet, that's supposed to be in tomorrow, but I have found Doty listed as a 2nd-4th Cousin on page 3 of my results, 51 cM,longest block 22. That's the only instantly recognizable Mayflower name I spotted in my matches. The three most common match names are Smith, Moore, and Davis. That's "Moore" with 2 o's, not the More listed on the Mayflower site. Did that change to 2 o's over time?

I have 1,316 matches, the top listed at 180 cMs, a couple at 96 and 95. These three all have the same family name, one I've never heard of before.

So, I guess I notify Mrs. Savage of this and let her try to figure things out? This could possibly help my paper trail, right?

Wing Genealogist
09-17-2016, 08:04 AM
I've got my FF back today, pretty fast result as I ordered it on 8/30. MyOrigins isn't done yet, that's supposed to be in tomorrow, but I have found Doty listed as a 2nd-4th Cousin on page 3 of my results, 51 cM,longest block 22. That's the only instantly recognizable Mayflower name I spotted in my matches. The three most common match names are Smith, Moore, and Davis. That's "Moore" with 2 o's, not the More listed on the Mayflower site. Did that change to 2 o's over time?

I have 1,316 matches, the top listed at 180 cMs, a couple at 96 and 95. These three all have the same family name, one I've never heard of before.

So, I guess I notify Mrs. Savage of this and let her try to figure things out? This could possibly help my paper trail, right?

At the present time, autosomal DNA cannot be used for lineage societies, such as the Mayflower Society or the DAR/SAR. While you matched up with someone who has a Doty surname, this does not mean you match on this surname. It simply means you and this other person share some ancestry. You would still need to do further "paper" genealogy research to determine what lines you are matching. His Doty line is only one of many lines he has (much like you have many more lines than your surname). The odds your match are from his Doty surname are extremely low.

curiousII
09-17-2016, 12:17 PM
The odds your match are from his Doty surname are extremely low.

You're right, I agree, odds are there's no relationship there at all. I sent off an email to Mrs. Savage and cc'ed it to a couple of the FTDNA Mayflower admins. Maybe help speed things up a little.

But they do have that Society DNA project. Your answer is somewhat correct, but if there's a chance my DNA could help further that research, that's good, isn't it? Your comment is curious in that regard.

Wing Genealogist
09-17-2016, 12:57 PM
You're right, I agree, odds are there's no relationship there at all. I sent off an email to Mrs. Savage and cc'ed it to a couple of the FTDNA Mayflower admins. Maybe help speed things up a little.

But they do have that Society DNA project. Your answer is somewhat correct, but if there's a chance my DNA could help further that research, that's good, isn't it? Your comment is curious in that regard.

The odds are you do have a relationship with Doty, but this relationship is less than 0.1% likely to be from the Mayflower Passenger Edward Doty. Doty was born about 1599 and doing a rough estimate of 30 years/generation and assuming your match was born circa 1950, there would be about 12 generations between your match and his likely ancestor, Edward Doty. At 12 generations, an individual would have 4,096 ancestral lines (most likely with some ancestors coming through multiple lines).

curiousII
09-17-2016, 04:18 PM
Ok, I agree. But you would assume then that I probably have no known relations with any of the Mayflower passengers? Are you one of the FTDNA Society project's admins? As Mrs. Savage has taken an undue amount of time with my application, perhaps you'd wish to process it yourself?

I can send all my documents to you, if you wish. Those, coupled with my recent FF results, should make for an interesting study, don't you think?

I think that'd be a fine idea. Want to start on it now?

Wing Genealogist
09-17-2016, 08:30 PM
Ok, I agree. But you would assume then that I probably have no known relations with any of the Mayflower passengers? Are you one of the FTDNA Society project's admins? As Mrs. Savage has taken an undue amount of time with my application, perhaps you'd wish to process it yourself?

I can send all my documents to you, if you wish. Those, coupled with my recent FF results, should make for an interesting study, don't you think?

I think that'd be a fine idea. Want to start on it now?

I am not assuming you do not have any Mayflower passenger ancestry. In fact, a recent Facebook posting stated roughly 1 in 8 Americans are descended from a Mayflower passenger. I am only stating your autosomal match to a Doty does not automatically mean you do have Mayflower ancestry. Much like almost everyone else, you would need to do research in order to discover whether you do have a Mayflower line.

I am not a project administrator for the FTDNA Mayflower Society project and actually do not have any involvement with the project. It is my understanding they are currently only interested in folks who have a Y-DNA ancestry (strictly paternal line) to a Mayflower passenger, or have mtDNA ancestry (strictly maternal line). Much like the vast majority of folks who do have Mayflower ancestry, I do not fall into either of the above categories, so do not qualify to join this project.

I had mentioned autosomal DNA and possibly being able to use it in the future for joining the Mayflower Society as the Mayflower wiki project (https://mayflowerdna.org/) has stated they hope to be able to explore whether this may be possible in the future or not. This wiki has stated they have a goal of at least presenting the Y-DNA (and hopefully mtDNA) pages in time for the 400 year celebration in 2020.

curiousII
09-23-2016, 04:45 PM
Anyway, another week goes by and no news from Mrs. Savage. She knows I've taken my Family Finder, she's had sufficient time to go through my application and tell me if and where it's defective at all. I sent my application fee off to her over a year ago.

So, this is my FF map. I've put it in a couple of spots, mostly because it's so attractive. Isn't it? See how nice the blob over the UK is, how clean and empty Iberia and the lower Italian boot is of any color? In fact, there isn't any color mostly anywhere other than the British Islands with mere tinges, just hints of color, over just a couple spots in Europe. Western and Central Europe at 11%, Eastern Europe at 13%, that's close to 1/4 of my genetic makeup. And that 9% Finland and Northern Siberia could be from my paternal Grandmother Bogotke and not from my mom's side of the family, which is the Mayflower-side. There's a 2% pink spot over Turkey which gives a little break from the monochrome monotony, but that's a rare spot of life there, isn't it?

Back to Doty, I'm said to be a 2nd-4th cousin of one of the Doty's on my list with 51 shared cM's, one a 3rd-5th cousin, the other one's a distant relation if at all. I haven't tried to contact any of these people yet so I have no idea if they're the Mayflower Doty's or not, but that's the only other place I've seen this name. Other than my mom's old attorney's office, of course, which added a Doty junior partner after my mom's estate was probated. But that's another story.

Yes, according to this test I'm just about all British with very little influence from anywhere else. Isn't that odd? Is this what Mayflower autosomal maps look like?

11797

Piquerobi
09-24-2016, 04:24 PM
.......

Alphabetzy
01-29-2017, 12:50 AM
Edward Doty was my 10th g-grandfather, and to my great surprise I have a number of AncestryDNA matches with other descendants of his. The odds are so small, but the descendants so numerous, that it's not impossible--in fact it's probable there are autosomal relationships between at least some
distant Doty cousins. It's a numbers game. GEDmatch kit M193745 (my mother's kit--shes closer generationally)

LadyAlaise
02-01-2017, 10:09 AM
This is interesting! And who knows perhaps it will be possible to identify small segments of DNA from a Common Mayflower ancestor; my Mom (descendant of William Brewster and Stephen Hopkins) for instance has a DNA match who is her 7th cousin 1x removed; the ONLY common ancestor identified from their trees is George Hadley; Grandson of Susannah North Martin who was hung at the Salem Witch Trials: unfortunately Ancestry only shows how much DNA they share over x amount of chromosomes; if I could find this match on my Mom's Gedmatch list and then isolate the segment say in Genomemate pro for instance and mark it and then further sift through matches who also share this segment of DNA and do the research to see if they too are descendants of Susannah....while tricky and sure, could have hiccups...can you see the potential for this to be a possibility?

Wing Genealogist
02-01-2017, 10:50 AM
This is interesting! And who knows perhaps it will be possible to identify small segments of DNA from a Common Mayflower ancestor; my Mom (descendant of William Brewster and Stephen Hopkins) for instance has a DNA match who is her 7th cousin 1x removed; the ONLY common ancestor identified from their trees is George Hadley; Grandson of Susannah North Martin who was hung at the Salem Witch Trials: unfortunately Ancestry only shows how much DNA they share over x amount of chromosomes; if I could find this match on my Mom's Gedmatch list and then isolate the segment say in Genomemate pro for instance and mark it and then further sift through matches who also share this segment of DNA and do the research to see if they too are descendants of Susannah....while tricky and sure, could have hiccups...can you see the potential for this to be a possibility?

I do see this kind of work as a possibility, but do not know if it will come to fruition.

Grossvater
02-01-2017, 06:46 PM
One must be very careful about making assumptions. Like LadyAlaise, I, too, am a descendant of Stephen Hopkins (on my father's side). Several years ago, I had a match on chromosome one with a very nice lady who was also a descendant. We were initially quite thrilled because, after looking at both of our extensively researched family trees, Stephen Hopkins was our only common ancestor.

But then it all unraveled after I had my half-sister on my father's side tested. She matched with me at the same place on chromosome one but did not match with the other lady at all. That told me the other lady and I shared on my mother's side and not on the Stephen Hopkins' side. I said "bummer." She, being more well-bred than I, probably said, "alas..."

Dewsloth
02-01-2017, 07:37 PM
I can see Cooke/Warren people in my FF queue or distant relatives. Most of them split off to other Cooke kids that I don't descend from.