wombatofthenorth
07-24-2016, 04:23 AM
I haven't really looked into it but I hear that many say the Balkan hear is doled out very differently than at 23 and wrong here.... but what if the DNA.LAND stuff makes more sense?
At 23 someone has a half 100% Romanian ancestor who tests as 30% Balkan on 23 but a perfect 52% at DNA.LAND.
Granted I haven't looked into it so perhaps the DNA.LAND Balkan is often just crazy or very different in it's own way on average though.
But someone else on 23 brought up an interesting point "I don't understand, Slovenia on 23andMe is not same blue like Balkan. It is in East Europe. Why?"
Why indeed if they do that. That doesn't seem to match stuff I had just been reading.
I looked into it and it seems they do and what they do is apparently:
Eastern European (Belarusians, Czechs, Hungarians, Polish, Russian, Slovak, Slovene, Ukrainian)
Balkan (Albanian, Bosnian and Herzegovinian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Greek, Macedonian, Maltese, Montenegrin, Romanian, Serbian)
This would appear to be entirely contrary to a study published 9/2/15 on PLOS where they say that the South Slavic/non-far southern Balkan countries have a closer genetic match to each other than to West/East/North Slavic or Baltic groups and much closer than to Albanians and Greeks. It says that while some divides are a soft gradient (such as Czechs with directly over the border Germans) that others are much harder walls (such as Polish people with just over the border Germans or Polish groups within Germany such as Sorbs with their surrounding Germans or such as between South Slavic people with Macedonians and Greeks).
So why are Slovenians and Hungarians mixed into their Eastern European (Baltic plus West/East/North Slavic) group and why are Albanians and Greeks put into the same Balkan category as many in the South Slavic group?
Maybe this is why it is unstable at times between Eastern European and Balkan and between South Slavic Balkan and Greek Balkan and doesn't always work so well.
According to the study I read they should have grouped them as:
--------------------------
1. Eastern European:
based upon three sub categories
West Slavic - Polish, Sorbs, Czechs, Slovakians
East Slavic - Belorussians, Ukrainians, North Russians, Central Russians, Southern Russians (with apparently Belorussians, Ukrainians and South Russians the closest matching)
Baltic - Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians (although the Estonians have a merge into Finland and much closer ties to Finland than the two Baltic speaking Baltic countries they do still have an overall considerably closer autosomal tie to to the Baltic speaking Baltic countries; interestingly all three Baltic nations, going by Y DNA only are tied together and with the Finns much more than to any of the Slavic groups)
-------------------------
2. Balkan (made up of South Slavic and a few non-Slavic speakers who are autosomally fully related to the South Slavic speakers- see a few posts back for explanation):
Slovenians, Croatians, Bosnians, Bulgarians, Montenegrians, Serbians, Hungarians, Romanians and probably Macedonians
-------------------
And Albanians and Greeks into a not sure what to call it Greek? Greek/Greek Balkan? Greek/Albanian? Southern Balkan? group of their own that apparently would be as from the South Slavic Group as the Broadly Northwestern European group is from the Eastern European group above and that they are farther from the South Slavic Group than the South Slavic Group is from the Eastern European Group.
--------------
At 23 someone has a half 100% Romanian ancestor who tests as 30% Balkan on 23 but a perfect 52% at DNA.LAND.
Granted I haven't looked into it so perhaps the DNA.LAND Balkan is often just crazy or very different in it's own way on average though.
But someone else on 23 brought up an interesting point "I don't understand, Slovenia on 23andMe is not same blue like Balkan. It is in East Europe. Why?"
Why indeed if they do that. That doesn't seem to match stuff I had just been reading.
I looked into it and it seems they do and what they do is apparently:
Eastern European (Belarusians, Czechs, Hungarians, Polish, Russian, Slovak, Slovene, Ukrainian)
Balkan (Albanian, Bosnian and Herzegovinian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Greek, Macedonian, Maltese, Montenegrin, Romanian, Serbian)
This would appear to be entirely contrary to a study published 9/2/15 on PLOS where they say that the South Slavic/non-far southern Balkan countries have a closer genetic match to each other than to West/East/North Slavic or Baltic groups and much closer than to Albanians and Greeks. It says that while some divides are a soft gradient (such as Czechs with directly over the border Germans) that others are much harder walls (such as Polish people with just over the border Germans or Polish groups within Germany such as Sorbs with their surrounding Germans or such as between South Slavic people with Macedonians and Greeks).
So why are Slovenians and Hungarians mixed into their Eastern European (Baltic plus West/East/North Slavic) group and why are Albanians and Greeks put into the same Balkan category as many in the South Slavic group?
Maybe this is why it is unstable at times between Eastern European and Balkan and between South Slavic Balkan and Greek Balkan and doesn't always work so well.
According to the study I read they should have grouped them as:
--------------------------
1. Eastern European:
based upon three sub categories
West Slavic - Polish, Sorbs, Czechs, Slovakians
East Slavic - Belorussians, Ukrainians, North Russians, Central Russians, Southern Russians (with apparently Belorussians, Ukrainians and South Russians the closest matching)
Baltic - Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians (although the Estonians have a merge into Finland and much closer ties to Finland than the two Baltic speaking Baltic countries they do still have an overall considerably closer autosomal tie to to the Baltic speaking Baltic countries; interestingly all three Baltic nations, going by Y DNA only are tied together and with the Finns much more than to any of the Slavic groups)
-------------------------
2. Balkan (made up of South Slavic and a few non-Slavic speakers who are autosomally fully related to the South Slavic speakers- see a few posts back for explanation):
Slovenians, Croatians, Bosnians, Bulgarians, Montenegrians, Serbians, Hungarians, Romanians and probably Macedonians
-------------------
And Albanians and Greeks into a not sure what to call it Greek? Greek/Greek Balkan? Greek/Albanian? Southern Balkan? group of their own that apparently would be as from the South Slavic Group as the Broadly Northwestern European group is from the Eastern European group above and that they are farther from the South Slavic Group than the South Slavic Group is from the Eastern European Group.
--------------