PDA

View Full Version : Second *RARE* Sicilian result: deep inland Caltanissetta, central Sicily.



Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 05:48 PM
No, I do not intend to make a new thread for every single result. ;) Just the rare ones I want to call attention to.

This person has 4 grandparents from Serradifalco, deep inland, a region basically out in the middle of nowhere, little migration to or from, and with little to no intersection with Greek settlement, Phoenicians, Normans, or anything historically relevant.

It is virtually identical to any other region, but slightly West Asian shifted.

Clearly, the Near Eastern and SW Asian affinities are already there, so it is likely predating Phoenicians. Cretans are a top match, implying yet again that the similarity well predates Greek settlement of the island. North Euro is in typical range, but low.

I have highlighted and bolded anything that is worth calling attention to.

Near East Neolithic K13:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 29.57
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.23
3 NATUFIAN 19.04
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 16.2
5 EHG 5.31
6 SHG_WHG 2.79
7 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 1.33
8 SUB_SAHARAN 1.26
9 PAPUAN 0.91
10 SIBERIAN 0.69
11 KARITIANA 0.65

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Moroccan 6.33
2 Sicilian 6.99
3 Jew_Ashkenazi 7.55
4 Cypriot 8.52
5 Jew_Tunisian 10.66
6 Italian_South 10.71
7 Jew_Libyan 11.2
8 Greek 11.95
9 Turkish 12.99
10 Turkish_Istanbul 13.08
11 Turkish_Adana 13.9
12 Lebanese 13.9
13 Albanian 14.45
14 Turkish_Kayseri 14.74
15 Turkish_Balekesir 16.06
16 Turkish_Aydin 16.09
17 Druze 16.99
18 Jordanian 17.82
19 Syrian 18
20 Turkish_Trabzon 18.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.9% Sicilian + 44.1% Cypriot @ 3.1
2 68.4% Sicilian + 31.6% Lebanese @ 3.1
3 51% Lebanese + 49% Albanian @ 3.77
4 74.8% Sicilian + 25.2% Jordanian @ 3.82
5 76.7% Sicilian + 23.3% Jew_iraqi @ 3.82
6 77.4% Sicilian + 22.6% Palestinian @ 3.87
7 64.7% Cypriot + 35.3% Albanian @ 3.89
8 83.1% Cypriot + 16.9% Europe_LNBA @ 3.96
9 71.3% Cypriot + 28.7% Bulgarian @ 3.99
10 74.3% Sicilian + 25.7% Druze @ 4.04
11 87.3% Jew_Ashkenazi + 12.7% Anatolia_ChL @ 4.06
12 63.4% Sicilian + 36.6% Jew_Tunisian @ 4.07
13 88.2% Sicilian + 11.8% Levant_BA @ 4.09
14 75.6% Sicilian + 24.4% Syrian @ 4.09
15 79.2% Cypriot + 20.8% French @ 4.11
16 54.1% Jew_Moroccan + 45.9% Sicilian @ 4.13
17 85.1% Sicilian + 14.9% Jew_Yemenite @ 4.16
18 78.5% Sicilian + 21.5% Jew_Iranian @ 4.3
19 74.8% Cypriot + 25.2% Romanian @ 4.31
20 53.3% Jew_Tunisian + 46.7% Greek @ 4.34


MDLP K13:

# Population Percent
1 ENF 34.23
2 Caucas-Gedrosia 28.15
3 NearEast 13.51
4 ANE 12.27
5 WHG-UHG 8.8
6 Subsaharian 2.64
7 Oceanian 0.4

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew 1.15
2 AshkenaziJew 1.85
3 Ashkenazy 2.29
4 Italian 3.82
5 Sephardic 4.62
6 Italy_South 4.76
7 Sicilian 4.96
8 Italian_Jew 5.05
9 Italian_EastSicilian 5.16
10 Maltese 5.49
11 Sephardi_Jew 5.58
12 Cretan 5.73
13 Moroccan_Jew 6.14
14 Italian_WestSicilian 6.33
15 Turk_Jew 6.81
16 Algerian_Jewish 7.15
17 Greek-Islands 7.39
18 North_Greek 7.5
19 Italian_South 7.72
20 South_Greek 7.82

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.2% Algerian_Jewish + 48.8% North_Greek @ 0.48
2 52.4% Algerian_Jewish + 47.6% Greek @ 0.54
3 85.8% Ashkenazi_Jew + 14.2% Maltese @ 0.7
4 52.3% Algerian_Jewish + 47.7% South_Greek @ 0.71
5 74% Sephardic + 26% Albanian @ 0.71
6 60.1% Greek + 39.9% Libyan_Jew @ 0.72
7 72.6% Sephardic + 27.4% Greek_Comas @ 0.74
8 85.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 14.1% Italian_EastSicilian @ 0.78
9 61.3% North_Greek + 38.7% Libyan_Jew @ 0.79
10 54.2% Tunisian_Jew + 45.8% Gagauz @ 0.83
11 88.8% Ashkenazi_Jew + 11.2% Italian_WestSicilian @ 0.83
12 51.5% Portugese + 48.5% Druze @ 0.88
13 88% Ashkenazi_Jew + 12% Sicilian @ 0.93
14 98.5% Ashkenazi_Jew + 1.5% Sardinian @ 0.94
15 85.9% Ashkenazi_Jew + 14.1% Italian @ 0.97
16 56.3% Moroccan_Jew + 43.7% Greek @ 0.99
17 55.1% Moroccan_Jew + 44.9% North_Greek @ 1
18 93.7% Ashkenazi_Jew + 6.3% Greek_WGA @ 1
19 96.3% Ashkenazi_Jew + 3.7% Corsican @ 1
20 87.5% Italian + 12.5% BedouinA @ 1.01


MDLP world 22:

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Mediterranean_Neolithic 35.87
2 Near_East 22.68
3 West-Asian 21.27
4 North-East-European 16
5 Sub-Saharian 1.66
6 Indo-Iranian 0.72
7 South-African 0.58
8 Indo-Tibetan 0.44
9 North-Amerind 0.31
10 South-America_Amerind 0.24
11 Austronesian 0.21
12 Arctic-Amerind 0.04

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian (derived) 4.29
2 Italian-South (derived) 5.93
3 Jew_Romania (derived) 5.99
4 Greek_Cretan (derived) 6.83
5 Jew_Francestrale (derived) 6.83
6 Ashkenazim (derived) 6.84
7 Greek_East (derived) 6.86
8 Italian-Center (derived) 6.99
9 Jew_Italia (derived) 7.31
10 Greek_Center (derived) 8.23
11 Jew_Morocco (derived) 9.71
12 Sephardim (derived) 9.84
13 Greek_South (derived) 10.3
14 Greek_North (derived) 11.12
15 Jew_Algeria (derived) 11.26
16 Ashkenazim_V (derived) 11.54
17 Jew_Tunisia (derived) 12.25
18 Jew_Libya (derived) 14.38
19 Cypriot (derived) 15.48
20 Jew_Syria (derived) 15.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.8% Italian-Center (derived) + 14.2% Bedouin (derived) @ 1.07
2 65.6% Jew_Algeria (derived) + 34.4% Gagauz (derived) @ 1.31
3 68.7% Sephardim (derived) + 31.3% Gagauz (derived) @ 1.36
4 67.7% Jew_Algeria (derived) + 32.3% Bulgarian (derived) @ 1.4
5 53.5% Jew_Morocco (derived) + 46.5% Greek_North (derived) @ 1.42
6 52.2% Greek_South (derived) + 47.8% Jew_Algeria (derived) @ 1.42
7 86.7% Italian-Center (derived) + 13.3% Saudi (derived) @ 1.44
8 51.5% Jew_Morocco (derived) + 48.5% Greek_South (derived) @ 1.45
9 52.8% Druze (derived) + 47.2% Iberian (derived) @ 1.49
10 50.3% Druze (derived) + 49.7% Portugese (derived) @ 1.5
11 88% Italian-South (derived) + 12% Bedouin (derived) @ 1.52
12 70.7% Sephardim (derived) + 29.3% Bulgarian (derived) @ 1.54
13 74.9% Jew_Italia (derived) + 25.1% Gagauz (derived) @ 1.54
14 54.2% Greek_Center (derived) + 45.8% Jew_Morocco (derived) @ 1.59
15 78.2% Sephardim (derived) + 21.8% Bosnian (derived) @ 1.61
16 76.7% Jew_Italia (derived) + 23.3% Bulgarian (derived) @ 1.62
17 69.9% Jew_Algeria (derived) + 30.1% Macedonian (derived) @ 1.65
18 59.8% Italian-North (derived) + 40.2% Palestinian (derived) @ 1.69
19 72.8% Sephardim (derived) + 27.2% Macedonian (derived) @ 1.7
20 88.7% Italian-South (derived) + 11.3% Saudi (derived) @ 1.71


Dodecad K12b:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 33.56
2 Atlantic_Med 27.1
3 Southwest_Asian 12.88
4 North_European 12.52
5 Gedrosia 6.82
6 Northwest_African 4.68
7 East_African 1.82
8 East_Asian 0.36
9 Siberian 0.2
10 Sub_Saharan 0.08

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.64
2 Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.69
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 6.53
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 6.72
5 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 8.1
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 9.78
7 Greek (Dodecad) 9.87
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 9.96
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 12.92
10 Tuscan (HGDP) 13.98
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 14.97
12 Cypriots (Behar) 17.86
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 19.68
14 Lebanese (Behar) 20.8
15 N_Italian (Dodecad) 20.8
16 North_Italian (HGDP) 21.94
17 Turks (Behar) 22.03
18 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 22.44
19 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 22.87
20 Syrians (Behar) 23.37

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.1% German (Dodecad) @ 2
2 86.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.2% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.16
3 86.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.2% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.17
4 84.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.9% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 2.17
5 84.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.3% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 2.27
6 71.3% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 28.7% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.28
7 68.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 31.9% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.46
8 83.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.9% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.47
9 85.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.9% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.48
10 85.2% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.8% English (Dodecad) @ 2.51
11 85.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.3% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.51
12 86% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.54
13 85% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 2.55
14 85.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.4% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.59
15 85.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.1% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.61
16 85.9% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.1% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.65
17 58.4% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 41.6% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.72
18 62.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 37.6% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.76
19 85.6% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.4% British (Dodecad) @ 2.76
20 91.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 8.8% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.78


Dodecad World9:

# Population Percent
1 Southern 37.95
2 Atlantic_Baltic 34.06
3 Caucasus_Gedrosia 24.78
4 African 1.9
5 Australasian 0.79
6 Siberian 0.28
7 Amerindian 0.19
8 East_Asian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 1.71
2 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 1.84
3 S_Italian (Dodecad) 1.86
4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 1.93
5 Ashkenazy_Jews 2.27
6 Greek (Dodecad) 6.69
7 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 7.45
8 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 9.23
9 C_Italian (Dodecad) 9.98
10 O_Italian (Dodecad) 12.67
11 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.53
12 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.44
13 Cypriots (Behar) 16.52
14 Turkish (Dodecad) 18.77
15 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 22.56
16 Romanians (Behar) 22.75
17 Turks (Behar) 23.19
18 Lebanese (Behar) 23.45
19 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 23.6
20 North_Italian (HGDP) 24.2

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.7% Druze (HGDP) + 46.3% Extremadura (1000 Genomes) @ 0.68
2 97.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 2.7% Ethiopian_Jews (Behar) @ 0.68
3 97.4% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 2.6% Ethiopians (Behar) @ 0.7
4 97.6% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 2.4% Somali (Dodecad) @ 0.73
5 53.1% Druze (HGDP) + 46.9% Andalucia (1000 Genomes) @ 0.75
6 53.9% Druze (HGDP) + 46.1% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 0.82
7 54.4% Druze (HGDP) + 45.6% Galicia (1000 Genomes) @ 0.85
8 95.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 4.3% Yemenese (Behar) @ 0.85
9 93.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.8% Lebanese (Behar) @ 0.88
10 93.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6.2% Syrians (Behar) @ 0.89
11 57.9% Druze (HGDP) + 42.1% Cantabria (1000 Genomes) @ 0.91
12 95.3% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 4.7% Egyptans (Behar) @ 0.91
13 54.9% Druze (HGDP) + 45.1% Castilla_La_Mancha (1000 Genomes) @ 0.92
14 56.3% Druze (HGDP) + 43.7% Spanish (Dodecad) @ 0.93
15 94% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 6% Jordanians (Behar) @ 0.93
16 73.1% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 26.9% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 0.93
17 96.2% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) + 3.8% Moroccans (Behar) @ 0.94
18 63.6% Bulgarian (Dodecad) + 36.4% Yemen_Jews (Behar) @ 0.95
19 55.3% Druze (HGDP) + 44.7% Spaniards (Behar) @ 0.96
20 55.2% Druze (HGDP) + 44.8% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000 Genomes) @ 0.98

Eurogenes K15:

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 27.07
2 West_Med 18.08
3 West_Asian 14.92
4 Atlantic 13.54
5 North_Sea 11.05
6 Red_Sea 7.64
7 Baltic 4.3
8 Northeast_African 2.82
9 Siberian 0.24
10 Oceanian 0.22
11 Southeast_Asian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 3.44
2 South_Italian 4.9
3 Central_Greek 5.57
4 Italian_Abruzzo 6.21
5 Ashkenazi 6.76
6 West_Sicilian 6.89
7 Italian_Jewish 7.17
8 Sephardic_Jewish 8.49
9 Algerian_Jewish 9.45
10 Tuscan 10.58
11 Greek_Thessaly 10.63
12 Greek 11.25
13 Tunisian_Jewish 12.15
14 Libyan_Jewish 13.11
15 Cyprian 15.51
16 North_Italian 17
17 Bulgarian 17.92
18 Lebanese_Muslim 18.16
19 Syrian 18.54
20 Turkish 19.2

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.1% East_Sicilian + 8.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.2
2 84% East_Sicilian + 16% Italian_Jewish @ 3.21
3 98.1% East_Sicilian + 1.9% Ethiopian_Tigray @ 3.24
4 98.2% East_Sicilian + 1.8% Ethiopian_Amhara @ 3.25
5 98.5% East_Sicilian + 1.5% Somali @ 3.26
6 98.5% East_Sicilian + 1.5% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 3.27
7 98.5% East_Sicilian + 1.5% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 3.28
8 96.2% East_Sicilian + 3.8% Moroccan @ 3.3
9 98.9% East_Sicilian + 1.1% Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator @ 3.3
10 93.1% East_Sicilian + 6.9% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.33
11 96.4% East_Sicilian + 3.6% Algerian @ 3.34
12 97.1% East_Sicilian + 2.9% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.36
13 97.2% East_Sicilian + 2.8% Egyptian @ 3.36
14 92.1% East_Sicilian + 7.9% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.37
15 99.3% East_Sicilian + 0.7% Ethiopian_Gumuz @ 3.38
16 97.2% East_Sicilian + 2.8% Tunisian @ 3.38
17 99.3% East_Sicilian + 0.7% Maasai @ 3.39
18 99.4% East_Sicilian + 0.6% Hadza @ 3.39
19 94.2% East_Sicilian + 5.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.39
20 98.6% East_Sicilian + 1.4% Saudi @ 3.4


PuntDNA-L:

# Population Percent
1 Anatolian_NF 41.57
2 Caucasus_HG 25.13
3 European_HG 15.47
4 Near_East 13.47
5 Oceanian 1.92
6 Sub-Saharan 1.07
7 South_Asian 0.84
8 South_African_HG 0.45
9 Amerindian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian_East 2.76
2 Sicilian_West 2.94
3 Ashkenazi_Jew 4.41
4 Turkish_Jew 8.45
5 Moroccan_Jew 8.57
6 Tuscan 9.2
7 Greek 9.57
8 Albanian 11.15
9 Libyan_Jew 12.96
10 Cypriot 13.94
11 Tunisian_Jew 14.54
12 Turkish_Aydin 15
13 Lebanese 16.34
14 Bulgarian 16.72
15 Italian_Bergamo 18.36
16 Spanish_Canaries 18.84
17 Turkish 19.05
18 Druze 19.29
19 Turkish_Kayseri 19.52
20 Syrian 19.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.5% Sicilian_East + 1.5% Papuan @ 2.01
2 98.2% Sicilian_East + 1.8% Bougainville @ 2.02
3 54.2% Sicilian_East + 45.8% Sicilian_West @ 2.27
4 51.3% Druze + 48.7% Spanish_Southwest @ 2.27
5 91.3% Sicilian_West + 8.7% Turkish_Kayseri @ 2.29
6 92.3% Sicilian_West + 7.7% Kurdish @ 2.31
7 92.9% Sicilian_West + 7.1% Armenian @ 2.32
8 94.7% Sicilian_West + 5.3% Georgian @ 2.32
9 93.1% Sicilian_West + 6.9% Laz @ 2.34
10 91.4% Sicilian_West + 8.6% Turkish @ 2.34
11 98.6% Sicilian_West + 1.4% Papuan @ 2.37
12 93% Sicilian_West + 7% Iranian_Jew @ 2.38
13 95.5% Sicilian_West + 4.5% Abkhasian @ 2.39
14 93.8% Sicilian_West + 6.2% Turkish_Trabzon @ 2.4
15 98.4% Sicilian_West + 1.6% Bougainville @ 2.4
16 92.2% Sicilian_West + 7.8% Assyrian @ 2.41
17 97% Sicilian_West + 3% Brahui @ 2.43
18 94.4% Sicilian_West + 5.6% Iranian @ 2.43
19 96.8% Sicilian_West + 3.2% Balochi @ 2.43
20 94% Sicilian_East + 6% Spanish_Southwest @ 2.44

Morges
07-26-2016, 05:50 PM
Every Sicilian or Calabrese you post is more southern than average :noidea:

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 05:53 PM
Every Sicilian or Calabrese you post is more southern than average :noidea:

I think the averages are not from representative regions. Syracuse shifts northeast due to Greek input, Trapani northwest from Norman input. Neither should be the reference for East and West Sicilian.

But anyway, there you go... this should show that little change has taken place on much of the island. Caltanissetta, non-Lombard areas of Enna, Messina, and Catania are probably virtually untouched for the most part.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 07:02 PM
whoops, Dodecad world9 is in there twice.

Morges
07-26-2016, 07:09 PM
I think the averages are not from representative regions. Syracuse shifts northeast due to Greek input, Trapani northwest from Norman input. Neither should be the reference for East and West Sicilian.

But anyway, there you go... this should show that little change has taken place on much of the island. Caltanissetta, non-Lombard areas of Enna, Messina, and Catania are probably virtually untouched for the most part.

I've seen many Sicilian results as well as others from Southern Italy and all of them fit into the average honestly.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 07:58 PM
I've seen many Sicilian results as well as others from Southern Italy and all of them fit into the average honestly.

I have not. The only ones I see converging toward the averages are Trapani and the southeast corner of Sicily, the two most "northern" shifted regions where, noncoincidentally, the samples were taken.

And I've seen at least 30, if not closer to 50 results. I may even have a larger number of them than the samples making up the average consist of.

I think Trapani at least should never be the sample, as they often plot uncharacteristically north for the island.

Thunor
07-26-2016, 08:06 PM
He is clearly mixed.

Look at the Oracle.

1 55.9% Sicilian + 44.1% Cypriot @ 3.1
2 68.4% Sicilian + 31.6% Lebanese @ 3.1
3 51% Lebanese + 49% Albanian @ 3.77
4 74.8% Sicilian + 25.2% Jordanian @ 3.82
5 76.7% Sicilian + 23.3% Jew_iraqi @ 3.82
6 77.4% Sicilian + 22.6% Palestinian @ 3.87
7 64.7% Cypriot + 35.3% Albanian @ 3.89
8 83.1% Cypriot + 16.9% Europe_LNBA @ 3.96
9 71.3% Cypriot + 28.7% Bulgarian @ 3.99
10 74.3% Sicilian + 25.7% Druze @ 4.04
11 87.3% Jew_Ashkenazi + 12.7% Anatolia_ChL @ 4.06
12 63.4% Sicilian + 36.6% Jew_Tunisian @ 4.07
13 88.2% Sicilian + 11.8% Levant_BA @ 4.09
14 75.6% Sicilian + 24.4% Syrian @ 4.09
15 79.2% Cypriot + 20.8% French @ 4.11
16 54.1% Jew_Moroccan + 45.9% Sicilian @ 4.13
17 85.1% Sicilian + 14.9% Jew_Yemenite @ 4.16
18 78.5% Sicilian + 21.5% Jew_Iranian @ 4.3
19 74.8% Cypriot + 25.2% Romanian @ 4.31
20 53.3% Jew_Tunisian + 46.7% Greek @ 4.34

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 08:09 PM
He is clearly mixed.

He isn't. I know him and both his parents, and all his surnames, come from the same town. The high Natufian on that calculator is giving that impression in the oracle.

Also keep in mind we have no idea where the "Sicilian" cluster is from but my guess is not Caltanissetta, this area is poorly sampled. It is more likely to be Syracuse or Trapani.

Thunor
07-26-2016, 08:13 PM
Yes sure. Keep inventing excuses.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 08:38 PM
Yes sure. Keep inventing excuses.

No need to be disrespectful. See the other Oracle results and see for yourself. I get the feeling if he plotted significantly north of average, no one would be saying a thing. People only care when it is in the other direction because of Eurocentric biases.

On MOST calculators here, he is close to the Sicilian averages, and only slightly West Asian shifted, not unlike some results from Messina.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 08:46 PM
Here is the same person on Eurasia K11 CHG-NAF. I am not seeing anything outrageous, just an extra Caucasus-like shift. I have seen more outlying results from Palermo than this.

I have some that are on the other side of the average too... closer to Greek than Sicilian on the Oracle, because of higher Northern affinity. These are people from the southeast of the island.

# Population Percent
1 Caucuses_Hunter_Gatherer 32.31
2 Neolthic_Anatolian_Farmer 27.48
3 WHG 19.12
4 E_African 10.82
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 6.33
6 Papuan 1.82
7 W_African 1.7
8 E_Asian 0.42

Single Population Sharing:


# Population (source) Distance
1 Maltese 5.48
2 Sicilian 6.2
3 Greek 8.84
4 Cypriot 11.27
5 Albanian 11.96
6 Tuscan 12.98
7 Turkish 13.23
8 Lebanese 14.25
9 Bulgarian 15.01
10 Syrian 15.91
11 Jordanian 16.44
12 Armenian 17.31
13 Iraqi_Jew 18.78
14 Kumyk 19.51
15 Kurd_N1 20.12
16 Adygei 20.51
17 Georgian_Jew 20.56
18 Iranian_Jew 20.78
19 Kurd_N6 21.08
20 Kurd_N5 21.25

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66% Greek + 34% Jordanian @ 2.95
2 65.3% Greek + 34.7% Syrian @ 3.05
3 86.3% Sicilian + 13.7% RISE423_Armenian @ 3.13
4 62.7% Greek + 37.3% Lebanese @ 3.16
5 94.5% Maltese + 5.5% RISE509_Afansievo @ 3.25
6 78.2% Cypriot + 21.8% Estonian @ 3.28
7 72.4% Greek + 27.6% BedouinA @ 3.36
8 91.3% Sicilian + 8.7% SATP @ 3.38
9 73.9% Cypriot + 26.1% Ukrainian @ 3.47
10 90.6% Sicilian + 9.4% KK1 @ 3.53
11 89% Maltese + 11% RISE423_Armenian @ 3.55
12 75.7% Cypriot + 24.3% Icelandic @ 3.56
13 75.3% Cypriot + 24.7% Norwegian @ 3.58
14 70.9% Cypriot + 29.1% Hungarian @ 3.59
15 76.8% Cypriot + 23.2% Russian @ 3.6
16 73.7% Cypriot + 26.3% Czech @ 3.61
17 79.1% Cypriot + 20.9% Lithuanian @ 3.62
18 95.7% Maltese + 4.3% Poltavka @ 3.64
19 69.8% Greek + 30.2% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.82
20 72.5% Cypriot + 27.5% English @ 3.82

Larth
07-26-2016, 09:02 PM
Every Sicilian or Calabrese you post is more southern than average :noidea:

Indeed.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 09:06 PM
Indeed.

Then maybe the average is non-representative. I have seen almost 50 results and they are very similar. How big is the sample size for these calculators anyway? I doubt it is that high.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 09:26 PM
I think that I should recalculate averages based on the results I have seen, and they should be incorporated into the calculator averages. I could easily create a Palermo average for MDLP at least, as there is not one.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 09:27 PM
MDLP K23. Nothing outrageous.

Admix Results (sorted):


# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 35.29
2 European_Early_Farmers 23.40
3 Near_East 11.69
4 European_Hunters_Gatherers 10.30
5 North_African 8.31
6 South_Central_Asian 6.24
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.06


Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
23 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Sicilian_Agrigento @ 2.861315
2 Sicilian_West @ 3.421393
3 Maltese @ 3.566539
4 Sicilian_Trapani @ 4.077774
5 Sicilian_East @ 4.204833
6 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 4.297757
7 French_Jew @ 4.496070
8 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 4.789489
9 Sephardic_Jew @ 6.813919
10 Italian_Jew @ 6.941708
11 Turk_Jew @ 6.941759
12 Ashkenazi @ 7.273798
13 Romanian_Jew @ 7.678531
14 Cretan @ 7.764060
15 Sicilian_Center @ 8.183866
16 Moroccan_Jew @ 8.680189
17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 9.265414
18 Italian_South @ 9.386712
19 Greek_Smyrna @ 10.528207
20 Greek_Athens @ 10.744456

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Jew +50% Sicilian_West @ 1.976004


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sicilian_West +25% Sicilian_West +25% Tunisian_Jew @ 1.550794

Larth
07-26-2016, 09:32 PM
I think that I should recalculate averages based on the results I have seen, and they should be incorporated into the calculator averages. I could easily create a Palermo average for MDLP at least, as there is not one.

I think that everyone should recalculate averages based on the results seen. From hierarchical knowledge to personal thruth.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 10:04 PM
I think that everyone should recalculate averages based on the results seen. From hierarchical knowledge to personal thruth.

If you pick a calculator, I will recalculate the averages for all the results I have, by region. Let me know which. We'll see how they stack up.

Morges
07-26-2016, 10:11 PM
Here there are some Sicilians and Southern Italians mainlander that I know personally, all of them fit in the average from Sicily and South Italy. Tens of samples from these regions, tens of results and only your results are more southern than average, I also have seen some Sicilians, Campanians and Lucanians that get Central Italian as first population on Oracle. No offence but kinda weird the ones you post.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7637-Upcoming-Near-East-Neolithic-13-Gedmatch-Calculator/page54

Morges
07-26-2016, 10:15 PM
I think that everyone should recalculate averages based on the results seen. From hierarchical knowledge to personal thruth.

So HDGP, Hapmap, Fiorito's samples, Behar's samples are not accurate according to him. Only his weird results are reliable apparently. :noidea:

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 10:16 PM
Here there are some Sicilians and Southern Italians mainlander that I know personally, all of them fit in the average from Sicily and South Italy. Tens of samples from these regions, tens of results and only your results are more southern than average, I also have seen some Sicilians, Campanians and Lucanians that get Central Italian as first population on Oracle. No offence but kinda weird the ones you post.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7637-Upcoming-Near-East-Neolithic-13-Gedmatch-Calculator/page54

If they score central Italian before Sicilian, that is weirder than what I post, who usually do get Sicilian first.

Half from Lazio is not representative of southerners so I disregard that one, but I will note it scores Lebanon closer on its Oracle than the Sicilian does, likely reflecting the extreme West Asian placement of Calabria.

I am not seeing many differences between the results you post, and the ones I post. I think you are overreacting, to be completely honest. This person from Caltanissetta is ONE result, and it is outlying, but inland Caltanissetta is genetically isolated, it's literally back water practically uninhabited.

I am kind of offended that given the results are similar, I am almost offended you are making such a huge deal out of this one result being isolated and making me out to be a liar. The results you posted all have higher Natufian than the average, by the way, which again suggests the average is not representative.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 10:17 PM
So HDGP, Hapmap, Fiorito's samples, Behar's samples are not accurate according to him. Only his weird results are reliable apparently. :noidea:

The results you posted are no different than mine, except this person from Caltanissetta and a few people from Messina (again, influence from Calabria should not be discounted).

If those averages have less people in them than the results I have seen, then the average may either be too small of a sample size, or from an unrepresentative region. Again, TRAPANI IS A POOR PLACE TO TAKE AVERAGES FOR SICILY. They plot very far north of the averages.

Morges
07-26-2016, 10:21 PM
The results you posted are no different than mine, except this person from Caltanissetta and a few people from Messina (again, influence from Calabria should not be discounted).

If those averages have less people in them than the results I have seen, then the average may either be too small of a sample size, or from an unrepresentative region. Again, TRAPANI IS A POOR PLACE TO TAKE AVERAGES FOR SICILY. They plot very far north of the averages.

An alleged Sicilian guy who is half Sicilian and half Lebanese on Oracle is an average Sicilian while HDGP samples are not reliable, ok B). Anyway Fiorito has used samples from Ragusa and Trapani/Palermo while Behar from Siracusa. Sicily has very little internal differences, many friends of mine I share from Agrigento or Palermo or even Trapani have almost identical results of many I share from Siracusa or Ragusa, and you have seen those results.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 10:26 PM
An alleged Sicilian guy who is half Sicilian and half Lebanese on Oracle is an average Sicilian while HDGP samples are not reliable, ok B). Anyway Fiorito has used samples from Ragusa and Trapani/Palermo while Behar from Siracusa. Sicily has very little internal differences, many friends of mine I share from Agrigento or Palermo or even Trapani have almost identical results of many I share from Siracusa or Ragusa, and you have seen those results.

And none of the results are very different than most of those I have posted. You are being petty, obstinent, and argumentative just for the sake of it. Go look at the average and you'll see it is not even representative of those that you posted.

Anyway, there are some degree of internal difference. Ragusa/Syracuse does have a higher affinity to Greece, while people from Messina are more like Calabria, somewhat outlying overall.

The guy is only coming up as half Sicilian and half Lebanese on ONE test. One. Look at the other results, you're making a huge deal out of nothing. He is completely Sicilian, and his 23andme results are like anyone else... 12% MENA is all he scores and the vast majority of the rest is Italian. There is nothing odd about his results other than a slightly higher West Asian affinity.

If his results offend you, but someone plotting in central Italy (which is northward shifted) do not, it reveals your prejudices and your own racism. The end.

Morges
07-26-2016, 10:37 PM
The user Mauruzzu who has recently joined on here is from the province of Trapani and we're waiting for his results, I'm sure he looks like the samples I post. Anyway I really find weird many of your results since don't fit in the average of scientific samples and for you years years of studies by academic teachers and genetists doesn't count because the results don't fit in your personal agenda. This is the simply reality fact and it is evident. No i'm not racist, i want only to show the reality of Southern Italian genetics without agenda.

This guy you posted (like the Calabrese yesterday) is not slightly more west asian affinity influenced but basically half Lebanese, never seen results like it.

Sikeliot
07-26-2016, 11:17 PM
The user Mauruzzu who has recently joined on here is from the province of Trapani and we're waiting for his results, I'm sure he looks like the samples I post. Anyway I really find weird many of your results since don't fit in the average of scientific samples and for you years years of studies by academic teachers and genetists doesn't count because the results don't fit in your personal agenda. This is the simply reality fact and it is evident. No i'm not racist, i want only to show the reality of Southern Italian genetics without agenda.

This guy you posted (like the Calabrese yesterday) is not slightly more west asian affinity influenced but basically half Lebanese, never seen results like it.

He is fully from Caltanissetta. Why is it difficult to imagine that his result is how it is because that part of the island was less affected by migration from the north, west, and Balkans?

Yes, it is an atypical result. But so is any Sicilian who plots significantly northward, too. There are outliers that exist. Also, it is well known Calabria has outliers, that region has little Germanic mixture, no Normans, etc.

I didn't say all of the averages were unrepresentative, I said they are from regions of the island that may not reflect the regions I post. If the sample came from Messina/Catania or rural Palermo, it may be similar to what I post. Same if it came from Caltanissetta (look at MDLP K23, "Central Sicily" has inflated affinity to the Caucasus for instance). Likewise, if all of the results I posted were from Trapani, they'd be close to the "West Sicilian" average that uses people from there as a reference.

The issue is you are underestimating the internal differences between southern Italian regions and applying averages to entire groups, but that is not accurate. It must be taken on a case by case basis.

I didn't say the averages are faulty, I said they are not island-wide and thus you should not compare all results to them when regional differences factor in. Does this make sense?

What is worth noting is, no Sicilian, not even the most northward plotting ones, are yet as north as mainland Greeks. And none quite end up in Cyprus either.

Mestace
07-26-2016, 11:43 PM
All the new calculators tend to pull people south (or north but much more rare) as they unveil a bit more of the things usually embedded in larger components, at least it gives this impression with tighter distances between clusters. Since he gets Sicilian first in K15 at such a close distance, he s certainly not far from the average. Some fits can create some illusions, for example he fits as Lebanese + Albanians, but Albanians are relatively far north of Sicilians, on the other hand Sicilian+Cypriot is not a big pull south, that is still definetly in the south Italian cluster.

Captain Nordic
07-27-2016, 12:00 AM
The EHG and the small amount of SSA is interesting :)

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 12:21 AM
All the new calculators tend to pull people south (or north but much more rare) as they unveil a bit more of the things usually embedded in larger components, at least it gives this impression with tighter distances between clusters. Since he gets Sicilian first in K15 at such a close distance, he s certainly not far from the average. Some fits can create some illusions, for example he fits as Lebanese + Albanians, but Albanians are relatively far north of Sicilians, on the other hand Sicilian+Cypriot is not a big pull south, that is still definetly in the south Italian cluster.

Exactly. I am unsure why people are thinking this result is outrageous. It is definitely one of the more Near Eastern influenced ones, but I have seen some that surpass it. I also have seen some that shift north. I am less inclined to post them because people, due to their Eurocentric biases, already embrace and welcome deviation from the average when it is northward plotting and I would be giving them ammunition, but if someone did want to see, I'd post them specifically because I believe in giving all of the information, not only that which is convenient. I've already posted many of the results I have, without regard for where they plot, and I've been very forthcoming about that some people are north of the average, others south of it.

Captain Nordic
07-27-2016, 12:24 AM
Exactly. I am unsure why people are thinking this result is outrageous. It is definitely one of the more Near Eastern influenced ones, but I have seen some that surpass it. I also have seen some that shift north. I am less inclined to post them because people, due to their Eurocentric biases, already embrace and welcome deviation from the average when it is northward plotting and I would be giving them ammunition, but if someone did want to see, I'd post them specifically because I believe in giving all of the information, not only that which is convenient. I've already posted many of the results I have, without regard for where they plot, and I've been very forthcoming about that some people are north of the average, others south of it.

Sicilians have a near eastern influence. I do not see where the fuss is if they show relations with such populations then :confused:

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 12:45 AM
Sicilians have a near eastern influence. I do not see where the fuss is if they show relations with such populations then :confused:

I think it is because this result is outlying in a Near Eastern direction and is an isolate region on the island, demonstrating that the island has likely gotten more "European" like over time and not less, and this might be a scary thought for some. It is clear there is Germanic DNA in Sicily (be it Norman, Gothic, Swabian, or indirect through resettlement of Lombards), and I suspect that if it were all removed, you'd see a population even closer to Cypriots than we have now.

Larth
07-27-2016, 12:47 AM
So HDGP, Hapmap, Fiorito's samples, Behar's samples are not accurate according to him. Only his weird results are reliable apparently. :noidea:

It sounds like do-it-yourself science.

Larth
07-27-2016, 12:49 AM
Ok, I got it. Apricity is still down.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 12:51 AM
Ok, I got it. Apricity is still down.

I don't know who you are, but please stay on topic and keep the personal insults and snide comments out of it. Any rude comment you make will just be disregarded by me.

Larth
07-27-2016, 12:56 AM
I don't know who you are, but please stay on topic and keep the personal insults and snide comments out of it. Any rude comment you make will just be disregarded by me.

I'm really sorry, but I don't see any insult.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 12:56 AM
By all means, call the result atypical. It somewhat is, hence why I posted it. It should be atypical anyhow because it is from an isolated region. But to call me a liar or dishonest and try to imply the person is not what I said they were, is just disrespectful and I am indeed offended, as I have the right to be.

No one would be saying anything like this if they plotted further north than average.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 01:39 AM
While we're at it, here is MDLP K12.

Morges will see that even this person scores North Italian before Cypriot, and Central Italian first, it is the calculator. But this should be evidence of the result being as I said...

# Population Percent
1 Paleo_Mediterranean 38
2 Caucasian 28.41
3 Celto_Germanic 12.07
4 Iberian 8.76
5 South_Central_Asian 3.33
6 Balto_Finnic 2.36
7 Altaic_Turkic 2.33
8 East_European 2.33
9 Paleo_Balkanic 1.75
10 Volga_Uralic 0.35
11 Paleo_North_European 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 CITAL (Central-Italian) 6.42
2 SIC (Sicilian) 9.05
3 ASHK (Ashkenazi) 10.6
4 GRK (Greek) 14.11
5 NITAL (North-Italian) 14.15
6 CRS (Corsican) 19.35
7 CPR (Cypriot) 20.02
8 BLG (Bulgarian) 24.6
9 GGZ (Gagauz) 24.71
10 TRK (Turk) 25.32
11 RMN (Romanian) 25.38
12 PRT (Portuguese) 27.97
13 MCD (Macedonian) 28.62
14 IBR (Iberian) 30.5
15 SPN (Spaniard) 30.67
16 MNT (Montenegrin) 30.79
17 ARM (Armenian) 33.47
18 SRB (Serbian) 34.33
19 FRN (French) 35.15
20 BSN (Bosnian) 38.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.8% CRS (Corsican) + 43.2% TRK (Turk) @ 3.15
2 63.6% CRS (Corsican) + 36.4% ARM (Armenian) @ 3.42
3 83.1% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 16.9% TRK (Turk) @ 3.93
4 90.9% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 9.1% NOSS (North-Ossetian) @ 3.97
5 90.8% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 9.2% ADG (Adygei) @ 4.06
6 89.3% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 10.7% NOG (Nogai) @ 4.11
7 64.1% CPR (Cypriot) + 35.9% FRN (French) @ 4.18
8 92.7% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 7.3% ABH (Abkhazian) @ 4.37
9 92.9% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 7.1% GRG (Georgian) @ 4.38
10 91.1% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 8.9% LZG (Lezgin) @ 4.57
11 65% NITAL (North-Italian) + 35% TRK (Turk) @ 4.58
12 88.8% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 11.2% ARM (Armenian) @ 4.87
13 71.4% NITAL (North-Italian) + 28.6% ARM (Armenian) @ 4.9
14 58.7% CPR (Cypriot) + 41.3% PRT (Portuguese) @ 5.2
15 93.9% CITAL (Central-Italian) + 6.1% UZ (Uzbek) @ 5.22
16 60.9% CPR (Cypriot) + 39.1% IBR (Iberian) @ 5.23
17 61% CPR (Cypriot) + 39% SPN (Spaniard) @ 5.35
18 89% SIC (Sicilian) + 11% GBRARG (British from Argyle) @ 5.38
19 90% SIC (Sicilian) + 10% GBRORK (Orcadian) @ 5.57
20 87.5% SIC (Sicilian) + 12.5% GBRWAL (Welsh) @ 5.66


HarappaWorld:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 33.4
2 Mediterranean 24.49
3 NE-Euro 16.18
4 SW-Asian 14.98
5 Baloch 7.29
6 E-African 1.49
7 Papuan 0.91
8 W-African 0.78
9 NE-Asian 0.48

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 2.03
2 ashkenazi (harappa) 4.1
3 sephardic-jew (behar) 7.76
4 morocco-jew (behar) 9.15
5 tuscan (1000genomes) 12.86
6 tuscan (hgdp) 13.49
7 tuscan (hapmap) 14.15
8 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 14.92
9 cypriot (behar) 17.73
10 lebanese (behar) 19.7
11 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 20.25
12 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 20.3
13 bulgarian (yunusbayev) 20.46
14 italian (hgdp) 21.52
15 romanian-a (behar) 21.56
16 turk (behar) 21.8
17 syrian (behar) 22.16
18 turkish (harappa) 22.32
19 lebanese-muslim (haber) 22.42
20 palestinian (harappa) 22.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64% tuscan (1000genomes) + 36% jordanian (behar) @ 1.37
2 60.6% tuscan (1000genomes) + 39.4% lebanese (behar) @ 1.62
3 74% sephardic-jew (behar) + 26% romanian-a (behar) @ 1.7
4 63.4% tuscan (1000genomes) + 36.6% syrian (behar) @ 1.72
5 97.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.2% morocco-s (henn2012) @ 1.74
6 97.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.2% orcadian (hgdp) @ 1.74
7 97.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.2% british (1000genomes) @ 1.75
8 97.3% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.7% french (hgdp) @ 1.76
9 97.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.3% utahn-white (1000genomes) @ 1.76
10 97% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 3% spaniard (1000genomes) @ 1.76
11 97.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.1% spain-basc (henn2012) @ 1.78
12 97.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.1% dominican (bryc) @ 1.78
13 97.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.2% n-european (xing) @ 1.78
14 98% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2% basque (hgdp) @ 1.79
15 98.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 1.3% fulani (henn2012) @ 1.8
16 97.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.3% algeria (henn2012) @ 1.8
17 97.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.3% moroccan (behar) @ 1.8
18 52.2% lebanese (behar) + 47.8% italian (hgdp) @ 1.81
19 97.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.1% mozabite (hgdp) @ 1.81
20 97.3% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 2.7% puerto-rican (1000genomes) @ 1.81


Gedrosia K15:

# Population Percent
1 Caucuses 26.19
2 EEF 25.88
3 SW_Asian 20.9
4 WHG 14.09
5 Balochi 3.28
6 Burusho 2.9
7 E_African 2.27
8 Kalash 1.35
9 E_Asian 0.99
10 NE_Indian_Tribal 0.99
11 W_African 0.84
12 Onge 0.33

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi_Jew 5.02
2 Sicilian 5.03
3 Greek 10.94
4 Albanian 13.56
5 Turkish 15.19
6 Cypriot 16.76
7 Bulgarian 21.71
8 Lebanese 21.88
9 Bergamo 21.89
10 Assyrian 23.44
11 Kurd_N 24.19
12 Iranian 25.04
13 Jordanian 25.66
14 Iraqi_Jew 25.78
15 Kurd_C 25.92
16 Iranian_Jew 26.32
17 Georgian_Jew 26.79
18 Armenian 27.33
19 Spanish 27.99
20 Syrian 28.14

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85% Sicilian + 15% Iranian @ 2.46
2 84.7% Sicilian + 15.3% Kurd_N @ 2.53
3 86.2% Sicilian + 13.8% Kurd_C @ 2.88
4 86.7% Sicilian + 13.3% Iranian_Jew @ 3.02
5 87.2% Sicilian + 12.8% Georgian_Jew @ 3.17
6 79.5% Sicilian + 20.5% Turkish @ 3.27
7 54.7% Bergamo + 45.3% Iranian_Jew @ 3.28
8 85.9% Sicilian + 14.1% Assyrian @ 3.28
9 62.2% Albanian + 37.8% Lebanese @ 3.32
10 85.5% Sicilian + 14.5% Lebanese @ 3.46
11 87.5% Sicilian + 12.5% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.47
12 92.1% Ashkenazi_Jew + 7.9% Balkar @ 3.63
13 89.6% Sicilian + 10.4% Turkmen @ 3.63
14 92.2% Ashkenazi_Jew + 7.8% Chechen @ 3.63
15 89% Sicilian + 11% Syrian @ 3.65
16 88% Sicilian + 12% Jordanian @ 3.66
17 54.2% Bergamo + 45.8% Iraqi_Jew @ 3.67
18 81.2% Ashkenazi_Jew + 18.8% Turkish @ 3.69
19 92% Sicilian + 8% Pashtun_Afghan @ 3.71
20 93.1% Ashkenazi_Jew + 6.9% Adygei @ 3.73


PuntDNA-L K15:

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 39.9
2 Caucasian 24.14
3 NE_European 18.05
4 SW_Asian 9.65
5 Horn_Of_Africa 5.38
6 Oceanian 0.9
7 Wht_Nile_River 0.57
8 Omo_River 0.47
9 E_Asian 0.37
10 Beringian 0.2
11 Amerindian 0.19
12 S_African 0.12
13 W_African 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jew 2.32
2 Sicilian 3.1
3 Ashkenazy_Jew 3.52
4 Tuscan 11.89
5 Greek_Central 12.16
6 Albanian 13.08
7 Greek_Thessaly 13.78
8 Cypriot 14.85
9 Palestinian 18.65
10 Lebanese 19.01
11 Samaritian 19.02
12 Turk_Kayseri 19.22
13 Italian 19.27
14 Montenegrin 20.51
15 Iraqi_Jew 21.77
16 Brazilian 21.94
17 Jordanian 22.09
18 Druze 22.1
19 Bulgarian 22.14
20 Syrian 22.26

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.3% Sephardic_Jew + 3.7% Bashkir @ 1.56
2 96.7% Sephardic_Jew + 3.3% Chuvash @ 1.56
3 97% Sephardic_Jew + 3% Karelian @ 1.63
4 96.9% Sephardic_Jew + 3.1% Russian @ 1.64
5 94.2% Sephardic_Jew + 5.8% Bosnian @ 1.66
6 97% Sephardic_Jew + 3% Mordovian @ 1.67
7 97.1% Sephardic_Jew + 2.9% Finnish @ 1.67
8 97.1% Sephardic_Jew + 2.9% Belarusian @ 1.67
9 97.3% Sephardic_Jew + 2.7% Lithuanian @ 1.69
10 96% Sephardic_Jew + 4% Hungarian @ 1.7
11 95.8% Sephardic_Jew + 4.2% Croatian @ 1.7
12 95.1% Sephardic_Jew + 4.9% Serbian @ 1.71
13 93.9% Sephardic_Jew + 6.1% Macedonian @ 1.71
14 96.1% Sephardic_Jew + 3.9% Slovenian @ 1.72
15 96.9% Sephardic_Jew + 3.1% Polish @ 1.74
16 88.7% Sephardic_Jew + 11.3% Greek_Central @ 1.75
17 96.2% Sephardic_Jew + 3.8% Austrian @ 1.75
18 89.9% Sephardic_Jew + 10.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.75
19 96.7% Sephardic_Jew + 3.3% Swedish @ 1.75
20 96.4% Sephardic_Jew + 3.6% North_German @ 1.76

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 01:58 AM
I am making a spreadsheet and releasing every result I have, using Dodecad K12b as a base. This will show all of the results I have and how they rank next to the average... then everyone can finally decide for themselves. Ok?

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 06:14 AM
Near East Neolithic information for all of the Sicilians I have, 68 people in total:


TRAPANI (N = 7)

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 25.22
Low: 20.7
Average: 23.28

CHG-EEF:
High: 33.73
Low: 28.47
Average: 30.85

EHG:
High: 7.31
Low: 3.12
Average: 6.03

Iran Neolithic:
High: 15.72
Low: 12.37
Average: 13.80

Natufian:
High: 17.14
Low: 14.85
Average: 16.16

WHG:
High: 6.46
Low: 4.35
Average: 5.94


PALERMO (N = 22)

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 25.98
Low: 18.12
Average: 22.34

CHG-EEF:
High: 35.31
Low: 27.37
Average: 31.12

EHG:
High: 8.08
Low: 3
Average: 5

Iran Neolithic:
High: 17.31
Low: 13.08
Average: 15.37

Natufian:
High: 19.18
Low: 13.59
Average: 16.67

WHG:
High: 7.54
Low: 4.32
Average: 5.65



MESSINA (N = 14):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 25.37
Low: 20.6
Average: 22.46

CHG-EEF:
High: 32.61
Low: 27.61
Average: 30.39

EHG:
High: 8.11
Low: 0.13
Average: 4.52

Iran Neolithic:
High: 18.82
Low: 14.38
Average: 16.78

Natufian:
High: 18.36
Low: 16.14
Average: 17.42

WHG:
High: 6.72
Low: 3.7
Average: 4.83


CATANIA (N = 13):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 24.16
Low: 18.86
Average: 21.76

CHG-EEF:
High: 33.64
Low: 26.95
Average: 31.05

EHG:
High: 6.94
Low: 3.25
Average: 4.91

Iran Neolithic:
High: 19.49
Low: 13.48
Average: 16.76

Natufian:
High: 18.36
Low: 16.14
Average: 17.42

WHG:
High: 6.72
Low: 3.7
Average: 4.83


AGRIGENTO (N = 6):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 24.41
Low: 21.82
Average: 22.87

CHG-EEF:
High: 31.63
Low: 26.8
Average: 29.65

EHG:
High: 6.61
Low: 3.64
Average: 5.16

Iran Neolithic:
High: 17.2
Low: 13.95
Average: 16.03

Natufian:
High: 19.73
Low: 14.42
Average: 16.18

WHG:
High: 6.31
Low: 4.62
Average: 5.30

SE SICILY (SYRACUSE, RAGUSA) (N = 3):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 24.46
Low: 21.94
Average: 22.86

CHG-EEF:
High: 34.39
Low: 29.35
Average: 31.31

EHG:
High: 7.66
Low: 7.14
Average: 7.47

Iran Neolithic:
High: 15.58
Low: 12.98
Average: 14.18

Natufian:
High: 14.95
Low: 13.81
Average: 14.29

WHG:
High: 6.89
Low: 4.88
Average: 5.57

Caltanissetta (N = 3):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 22.23
Low: 18.72
Average: 20.77

CHG-EEF:
High: 33.59
Low: 29.57
Average: 31.83

EHG:
High: 5.53
Low: 5.06
Average: 5.30

Iran Neolithic:
High: 17.8
Low: 13.91
Average: 16.2

Natufian:
High: 19.04
Low: 16.48
Average: 17.40

WHG:
High: 6.76
Low: 2.79
Average: 5.08

MINARD777
07-27-2016, 06:21 AM
Here there are some Sicilians and Southern Italians mainlander that I know personally, all of them fit in the average from Sicily and South Italy. Tens of samples from these regions, tens of results and only your results are more southern than average, I also have seen some Sicilians, Campanians and Lucanians that get Central Italian as first population on Oracle. No offence but kinda weird the ones you post.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7637-Upcoming-Near-East-Neolithic-13-Gedmatch-Calculator/page54

The cousin matches I've seen of mine from Calabria and Campania (mixed heritage) Have varied greatly so this is kind of unusual to see what you are clamining. There is great diversity. I kid you not. I've seen some close to the Abruzzo sample, and others somewhere between S Italian and Cypriot.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 06:23 AM
The cousin matches I've seen of mine from Calabria and Campania (mixed heritage) Have varied greatly so this is kind of unusual to see what you are clamining. There is great diversity. I kid you not. I've seen some close to the Abruzzo sample, and others somewhere between S Italian and Cypriot.

What is odd to me is that the averages he wants to go by, aren't even suitable for the results he posted in the other thread. People want to come in here in attack mode but they are not even providing concrete evidence to the contrary. Sicilians and other southern Italians are genetically close to Maltese and Jews, not even to Greeks as people like to claim and they will just need to accept that. Calabrese are even more shifted east than Sicilians are, closer to Cyprus than other southern Italians are.

MINARD777
07-27-2016, 06:23 AM
It sounds like do-it-yourself science.


All he is saying is that different regions have different averages. How is this "do it yourself science"? I don't get people like you *cough* Italicroots*cough* just finding things to complain about. Different regions vary and different people within the regions vary too. I've seen some Calabrese/Sicilians closer to Abruzzo and results similar to this. This is the most MENA I have seen so far. Perhaps he is of Italkim ancestry, perhaps not.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 06:42 AM
Perhaps he is of Italkim ancestry, perhaps not.

My guess is that inland Caltanissetta as well as some people in Messina/Catania have limited ancestry from elsewhere in the last 3000 years as opposed to other regions where Greek DNA is stronger or there is some degree of Germanic input. The lack of more recent northern influences to pull one north, will make them comparatively closer to Cyprus. Anyway I do not understand the controversy here either. It is well known by now that southern Italians are closest to one another, to Maltese and to Jews, and not to Greeks (islanders are Hellenized, remember, so they've always probably been similar, and the mainland has been Slavicized) nor to anyone significantly north of them. This doesn't mean that some of them don't have Germanic ancestry, as some do, but somehow people have no issue saying that but have a lot of problems admitting West Asian affinity.

Captain Nordic
07-27-2016, 09:07 AM
Near East Neolithic information for all of the Sicilians I have, 68 people in total:


TRAPANI (N = 7)

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 25.22
Low: 20.7
Average: 23.28

CHG-EEF:
High: 33.73
Low: 28.47
Average: 30.85

EHG:
High: 7.31
Low: 3.12
Average: 6.03

Iran Neolithic:
High: 15.72
Low: 12.37
Average: 13.80

Natufian:
High: 17.14
Low: 14.85
Average: 16.16

WHG:
High: 6.46
Low: 4.35
Average: 5.94


PALERMO (N = 22)

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 25.98
Low: 18.12
Average: 22.34

CHG-EEF:
High: 35.31
Low: 27.37
Average: 31.12

EHG:
High: 8.08
Low: 3
Average: 5

Iran Neolithic:
High: 17.31
Low: 13.08
Average: 15.37

Natufian:
High: 19.18
Low: 13.59
Average: 16.67

WHG:
High: 7.54
Low: 4.32
Average: 5.65



MESSINA (N = 14):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 25.37
Low: 20.6
Average: 22.46

CHG-EEF:
High: 32.61
Low: 27.61
Average: 30.39

EHG:
High: 8.11
Low: 0.13
Average: 4.52

Iran Neolithic:
High: 18.82
Low: 14.38
Average: 16.78

Natufian:
High: 18.36
Low: 16.14
Average: 17.42

WHG:
High: 6.72
Low: 3.7
Average: 4.83


CATANIA (N = 13):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 24.16
Low: 18.86
Average: 21.76

CHG-EEF:
High: 33.64
Low: 26.95
Average: 31.05

EHG:
High: 6.94
Low: 3.25
Average: 4.91

Iran Neolithic:
High: 19.49
Low: 13.48
Average: 16.76

Natufian:
High: 18.36
Low: 16.14
Average: 17.42

WHG:
High: 6.72
Low: 3.7
Average: 4.83


AGRIGENTO (N = 6):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 24.41
Low: 21.82
Average: 22.87

CHG-EEF:
High: 31.63
Low: 26.8
Average: 29.65

EHG:
High: 6.61
Low: 3.64
Average: 5.16

Iran Neolithic:
High: 17.2
Low: 13.95
Average: 16.03

Natufian:
High: 19.73
Low: 14.42
Average: 16.18

WHG:
High: 6.31
Low: 4.62
Average: 5.30

SE SICILY (SYRACUSE, RAGUSA) (N = 3):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 24.46
Low: 21.94
Average: 22.86

CHG-EEF:
High: 34.39
Low: 29.35
Average: 31.31

EHG:
High: 7.66
Low: 7.14
Average: 7.47

Iran Neolithic:
High: 15.58
Low: 12.98
Average: 14.18

Natufian:
High: 14.95
Low: 13.81
Average: 14.29

WHG:
High: 6.89
Low: 4.88
Average: 5.57

Caltanissetta (N = 3):

Anatolia Neolithic:
High: 22.23
Low: 18.72
Average: 20.77

CHG-EEF:
High: 33.59
Low: 29.57
Average: 31.83

EHG:
High: 5.53
Low: 5.06
Average: 5.30

Iran Neolithic:
High: 17.8
Low: 13.91
Average: 16.2

Natufian:
High: 19.04
Low: 16.48
Average: 17.40

WHG:
High: 6.76
Low: 2.79
Average: 5.08

It's interesting how some of them seem to score more EHG than WHG.
Maybe more IE ancestry?

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 03:34 PM
It's interesting how some of them seem to score more EHG than WHG.
Maybe more IE ancestry?

Trapani = more Germanic mixture
Southeast Sicily (Syracuse, Ragusa) = more Greek mixture

Both of these would increase the EHG.

Larth
07-27-2016, 04:22 PM
All he is saying is that different regions have different averages. How is this "do it yourself science"? I don't get people like you *cough* Italicroots*cough* just finding things to complain about. Different regions vary and different people within the regions vary too. I've seen some Calabrese/Sicilians closer to Abruzzo and results similar to this. This is the most MENA I have seen so far. Perhaps he is of Italkim ancestry, perhaps not.

Perhaps yes, perhaps not, in any case unverifiable results from people of unknown ancestry it's a pointless.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 04:28 PM
Perhaps yes, perhaps not, in any case unverifiable results from people of unknown ancestry it's a pointless.

It's not unverifiable, but I am also not going to compromise people's safety by posting information about them either. You just have to trust me on this.

Morges
07-27-2016, 04:30 PM
Sicily has the walls between the provinces this is what i've discovered by an american dude :noidea:

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 04:34 PM
Sicily has the walls between the provinces this is what i've discovered by an american dude :noidea:

I mean if you look at the averages you see they do converge, but with trends... Syracuse/Ragusa actually has the lowest Natufian, not Trapani. If you look you can see from the high/low and average where the diversity is coming from. I think you will find that the results fit a pattern and nothing outrageous.

The high Natufian outliers in Palermo imply minor Phoenician do they not?

Morges
07-27-2016, 04:35 PM
If he had Italkim origins than it should be visible on Oracle since many of GEDmatch calculators do have Italian Jewish (by Behar) population average. While this sample drift eastward to Lebanon and Cyprus, basically half Sicilian+half Cypriot but even the "Calabrese" on the other thread is similar...

Larth
07-27-2016, 04:37 PM
It's not unverifiable, but I am also not going to compromise people's safety by posting information about them either. You just have to trust me on this.

Of course it is unverifiable.

Morges
07-27-2016, 04:46 PM
Trapani = more Germanic mixture
Southeast Sicily (Syracuse, Ragusa) = more Greek mixture

Both of these would increase the EHG.

On The Apricity for many times you have said the most "nordic" of Sicily were in Enna, now are the Ragusan, Siracusan and Trapanese, maybe because HDGP and scientific papers have samples from these three provinces and they don't fit into your agenda. :noidea:

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 04:50 PM
If he had Italkim origins than it should be visible on Oracle since many of GEDmatch calculators do have Italian Jewish (by Behar) population average. While this sample drift eastward to Lebanon and Cyprus, basically half Sicilian+half Cypriot but even the "Calabrese" on the other thread is similar...

They are just outlier results, but part of the variation. If you look at the other calculators you see their top match is something that makes sense.. either south Italian, Sicilian, or some Jewish group.

Now if they scored Cyprus first, that'd be one thing. But Cypriots and Sicilians are not so different genetically that it should be a shock. It's not like they scored half German or French (not saying this couldn't happen either, maybe it could. Who knows).

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 04:52 PM
On The Apricity for many times you have said the most "nordic" of Sicily were in Enna, now are the Ragusan, Siracusan and Trapanese, maybe because HDGP and scientific papers have samples from these three provinces and they don't fit into your agenda. :noidea:

There is no agenda. Enna has Lombard influences which contribute to some lighter phenotypes. At that point I never had even seen results from Syracuse or Ragusa. It's been known for some time that Trapani has additional Germanic admixture.

Having seen results from all of the regions now, I think it can be said that some provinces (Messina, Catania, Palermo, Agrigento, and Caltanissetta) are on the more southern/Near Eastern influenced side, while the others are the other side (more on the European side of the average). However, the differences are not large between any of them in the long run.

I don't know how you can still say this when you have the averages on the previous page. There are almost 70 results among them, you can see the high, low, and average for each component. If you still take issue with it, then you're just looking for reasons to complain. I could not be any more forthcoming with the results and the information than I have been. You have not provided anything.

Morges
07-27-2016, 04:56 PM
They are just outlier results, but part of the variation. If you look at the other calculators you see their top match is something that makes sense.. either south Italian, Sicilian, or some Jewish group.

Now if they scored Cyprus first, that'd be one thing. But Cypriots and Sicilians are not so different genetically that it should be a shock. It's not like they scored half German or French (not saying this couldn't happen either, maybe it could. Who knows).

Cypriots are genetically Lebanese with some Greek mixture, Sicilians are like continental Southern Italians and Greek Islander and some Southern mainland Greeks. There is a significant difference between Sicilians and Lebanese on autosomal basis. Anyway most of the results you post look like outliers, it's not only question of one or two results. So I've some doubts.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 04:58 PM
Cypriots are genetically Lebanese with some Greek mixture, Sicilians are like continental Southern Italians and Greek Islander and some Southern mainland Greeks. There is a significant difference between Sicilians and Lebanese on autosomal basis. Anyway most of the results you post look like outliers, it's not only question of one or two results. So I've some doubts.


Well go look at the averages on the last page. I did the same for Dodecad K12b if you want to see those also, but it won't happen until I get back from having my car inspected.

You would see a similar variation in Greek islanders to the Sicilians on the previous page, though I have not yet seen one scoring 19% Natufian unlike a few of the Palermitans, people from Messina, and the one from Caltanissetta. But they do have high Iran Neolithic to make up for that.

The main difference between Greek islanders and Sicily is the minor North African input, which draws Sicilians slightly closer to Iberia. But the higher North European in Greeks, at least mainlanders, is what really differentiates them. The islanders, too, have low North European affinity hence why they plot together.

The majority of Greeks do not plot with Sicily, but in between Sicilians and Balkan Slavs, due to a) higher Indo-European admixture and b) some degree of unquantifiable Slavic admixture. Possibly someone who is half northern Greek, half Pontic could average out to a Sicilian, but that's not a stabilized admixture but a recent one.

Morges
07-27-2016, 05:10 PM
Here is one Chios islander I share, it scores 17% of Natufian but almost 20% of Iran neolithic which is another "eastern/exotic" component eh...

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 31.75
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 20.07
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 19.69
4 NATUFIAN 16.93
5 SHG_WHG 4.12
6 EHG 3.36
7 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 2.8
8 PAPUAN 0.56
9 SE_ASIAN 0.52
10 SIBERIAN 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Ashkenazi 7.29
2 Sicilian 7.98
3 Cypriot 8.25
4 Jew_Moroccan 8.26
5 Italian_South 9.27
6 Turkish_Istanbul 9.65
7 Turkish 10.51
8 Turkish_Adana 10.98
9 Greek 11.11
10 Turkish_Kayseri 11.75
11 Turkish_Balekesir 13.39
12 Turkish_Aydin 13.72
13 Jew_Tunisian 13.72
14 Albanian 14.29
15 Jew_Libyan 14.34
16 Lebanese 14.43
17 Turkish_Trabzon 14.59
18 Armenian 15.79
19 Druze 16.12
20 Azeri 17.59

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 05:13 PM
You can't even talk since you posted an Apulian result scoring Cyprus before Greece. You are a hypocrite.

Here is a Kalymnian. Lower Natufian than most of the Sicilians, higher Iran Neolithic. But it comes out quite close overall. Fact is we can keep posting results to try to one up each other and prove something but the fact is, that's childish. There is variation and throwing tantrums over it will not change it.

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 30.17
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.62
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 19.41
4 NATUFIAN 14.33
5 EHG 4.15
6 SHG_WHG 4.11
7 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 3.15
8 PAPUAN 0.7
9 SUB_SAHARAN 0.7
10 SIBERIAN 0.66

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 8.1
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 9.33
3 Jew_Moroccan 10.03
4 Cypriot 10.06
5 Italian_South 10.43
6 Turkish_Istanbul 10.63
7 Greek 10.94
8 Turkish 11.05
9 Turkish_Adana 12.58
10 Turkish_Kayseri 12.99
11 Turkish_Balekesir 13.44
12 Albanian 13.69
13 Turkish_Aydin 14.22
14 Jew_Tunisian 15.46
15 Turkish_Trabzon 15.65
16 Jew_Libyan 15.89
17 Lebanese 16.01
18 Armenian 17.39
19 Bulgarian 18.25
20 Azeri 18.54

Morges
07-27-2016, 05:17 PM
I'm honest unlike you, this is the difference. Your behaviour is really childish not the mine. I'll show all the diversity not only the southernmost outliers.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 05:21 PM
I'm honest unlike you, this is the difference. Your behaviour is really childish not the mine. I'll show all the diversity not only the southernmost outliers.

I didn't show just the southernmost outliers. Go look at the averages again, you can see the high, low, and average for each component per province. That is as honest as it gets. You can even see the damn spreadsheet if you want to see it if that will make you happy.

J Man
07-27-2016, 05:30 PM
There is probably some sort of average way that Southern Italians score with some being more towards one certain extreme and others another way.

Captain Nordic
07-27-2016, 07:00 PM
They are just outlier results, but part of the variation. If you look at the other calculators you see their top match is something that makes sense.. either south Italian, Sicilian, or some Jewish group.

Now if they scored Cyprus first, that'd be one thing. But Cypriots and Sicilians are not so different genetically that it should be a shock. It's not like they scored half German or French (not saying this couldn't happen either, maybe it could. Who knows).
I have heard that Cypriots are basically just hellenized Near easterners..
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316.g002
I mean, Sicilians are obviously largely of Near eastern extraction, but as much as "Greek" Cypriots? Hmmmm....

sciencediver
07-27-2016, 07:06 PM
intelligenzia

Morges
07-27-2016, 07:07 PM
I mean, Sicilians are obviously largely of Near eastern extraction, but as much as "Greek" Cypriots? Hmmmm....
No, we're close to islander Greeks minus Cypriots if you want a comparison with Greek ethnicity.

sciencediver
07-27-2016, 07:09 PM
I plot close to Illuminati

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 07:27 PM
No, we're close to islander Greeks minus Cypriots if you want a comparison with Greek ethnicity.

Yes. Cypriots are close but not as much.

Notice no results yet put a Sicilian closer to Cyprus than to the Sicilian average. If one is closer to Cyprus than to Greece it's due to the Greek average reflecting mainlanders with higher East European genes.

But as I said the Syracuse and Ragusa results shift toward Greece more while the Palermitans and Messinese and honestly even the Trapanese are more West Asian shifted than they are.

Morges
07-27-2016, 07:53 PM
I have heard that Cypriots are basically just hellenized Near easterners..

This is a better PCA plot from the last Lazaridis paper, here Sicilians plot with mainlander Southern Italians (three samples from Campania and one from Puglia this time, you can read this in the supplementary information) while Cypriots have their own plot and almost close Lebanon and Druze. Unfortunately the only Greeks are from the North of the country and there aren't islanders who basically have similar plot of us.

https://s31.postimg.org/gm2x1jkbv/059311_full_page_031.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/zees54gpz/)

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 08:31 PM
When islander Greeks are removed, the closest to southern Italians becomes Ashkenazi Jews. I think the Greeks drifting away from the main cluster there are part Pontic.

Thunor
07-27-2016, 08:35 PM
The Greeks samples are from Thessaloniki. Still there are 3 of them who plot with Sicilians.

Thunor
07-27-2016, 08:44 PM
http://s11.postimg.org/6oigcl8ir/C_Data_Users_Def_Apps_App_Data_INTERNETEXPLORER_T. jpg

This one shows it very well.

CY = Cypriots
SO = South Italians from Crotone
WS = Sicilians from Trapani
EA =Sicilians from Siracusa
GR = Greeks from Thessaloniki and Athens

Gravetto-Danubian
07-27-2016, 08:50 PM
Yep some Iron Age Greek Genomes will be interesting, and of course from Italy :beerchug:
Especially if southern Italians turn out to be better proxies for ancient Greeks

Thunor
07-27-2016, 09:27 PM
Greeks are surely much more diverse than Italians. They go from being almost middle eastern (Cappadocia) to being almost almost Balkan (Macedonia)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ojG5YJptKWE/U5l5U6ta03I/AAAAAAAAAy0/HBsXnzm8inI/s1600/paschou2014-fig4.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2ZAFprveBIk/U5l5XuU292I/AAAAAAAAAy8/gyD8kZoSyeg/s1600/paschou2014-figS3.png

The Thessaloniki samples used by Lazaridis represent the genetically northernmost Greeks.

Gravetto-Danubian
07-27-2016, 09:35 PM
True
Just the Thessalonikans alone are quite heterogeneous

sciencediver
07-27-2016, 09:40 PM
One thing is for sure, that 20% natufian didn't come from Cappadocian Greeks.

Bernard Marx
07-27-2016, 09:52 PM
This is a better PCA plot from the last Lazaridis paper, here Sicilians plot with mainlander Southern Italians (three samples from Campania and one from Puglia this time, you can read this in the supplementary information) while Cypriots have their own plot and almost close Lebanon and Druze. Unfortunately the only Greeks are from the North of the country and there aren't islanders who basically have similar plot of us.

https://s31.postimg.org/gm2x1jkbv/059311_full_page_031.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/zees54gpz/)
Next plot by Lazaridis you see the Greeks will be plotting with Austrians.

sciencediver
07-27-2016, 09:54 PM
Here comes another Natufian Italian.

Bernard Marx
07-27-2016, 10:01 PM
Here comes another Natufian Italian.
LOL Greeks.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:05 PM
You can see that the mainland Greeks are toward the Balkans, the Sicilians are drifting toward the Levant compared to them, and the Calabrese drift toward Caucasus.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:07 PM
Next plot by Lazaridis you see the Greeks will be plotting with Austrians.

Mainland Greeks as a whole will always plot north of Sicily. Deal with it.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:08 PM
Greeks are surely much more diverse than Italians. They go from being almost middle eastern (Cappadocia) to being almost almost Balkan (Macedonia)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ojG5YJptKWE/U5l5U6ta03I/AAAAAAAAAy0/HBsXnzm8inI/s1600/paschou2014-fig4.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2ZAFprveBIk/U5l5XuU292I/AAAAAAAAAy8/gyD8kZoSyeg/s1600/paschou2014-figS3.png

The Thessaloniki samples used by Lazaridis represent the genetically northernmost Greeks.

All mainland Greeks plot similarly.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:10 PM
90 percent of Greeks are mainlanders so that's who should be used on the plots.

Bernard Marx
07-27-2016, 10:10 PM
Mainland Greeks as a whole will always plot north of Sicily. Deal with it.
They still plot far south than northern Italians in any serious plot, unless it's made by some Greek with an agenda. Deal with it.

Mike1
07-27-2016, 10:10 PM
This is a better PCA plot from the last Lazaridis paper, here Sicilians plot with mainlander Southern Italians (three samples from Campania and one from Puglia this time, you can read this in the supplementary information) while Cypriots have their own plot and almost close Lebanon and Druze. Unfortunately the only Greeks are from the North of the country and there aren't islanders who basically have similar plot of us.

https://s31.postimg.org/gm2x1jkbv/059311_full_page_031.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/zees54gpz/)


When islander Greeks are removed, the closest to southern Italians becomes Ashkenazi Jews. I think the Greeks drifting away from the main cluster there are part Pontic.


Yep some Iron Age Greek Genomes will be interesting, and of course from Italy :beerchug:
Especially if southern Italians turn out to be better proxies for ancient Greeks

Hi Bro, This is a Calabrese i could find on Gedmatch.

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 26.95
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 23.11
3 NATUFIAN 20.29
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 18.09
5 SHG_WHG 4.01
6 EHG 3.04
7 SE_ASIAN 2.66
8 SUB_SAHARAN 1.57
9 PAPUAN 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Moroccan 4.61
2 Cypriot 6.98
3 Jew_Tunisian 9.38
4 Jew_Libyan 9.85
5 Jew_Ashkenazi 10
6 Sicilian 10.1
7 Lebanese 12.12
8 Italian_South 13.49
9 Turkish_Adana 13.83
10 Turkish 13.97
11 Turkish_Kayseri 14.25
12 Turkish_Istanbul 14.52
13 Greek 14.85
14 Druze 15.25
15 Jordanian 15.91
16 Syrian 16.3
17 Turkish_Aydin 16.39
18 Turkish_Balekesir 16.76
19 Jew_iraqi 17.32
20 Albanian 17.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.8% Jew_Moroccan + 8.2% Anatolia_ChL @ 2.53
2 90.3% Jew_Moroccan + 9.7% Armenia_ChL @ 2.58
3 91.5% Jew_Moroccan + 8.5% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.07
4 95.9% Jew_Moroccan + 4.1% Anatolia_N @ 3.35
5 95.5% Jew_Moroccan + 4.5% Europe_EN @ 3.42
6 70.8% Lebanese + 29.2% Sardinian @ 3.59
7 95.5% Jew_Moroccan + 4.5% Europe_MNChL @ 3.74
8 93.9% Jew_Moroccan + 6.1% Stuttgart @ 3.8
9 94.3% Jew_Moroccan + 5.7% Iran_recent @ 3.87
10 95.9% Jew_Moroccan + 4.1% Iran_ChL @ 3.92
11 63.9% Syrian + 36.1% Sardinian @ 3.93
12 95.4% Jew_Moroccan + 4.6% Steppe_IA @ 4.05
13 65.6% Druze + 34.4% Sardinian @ 4.16
14 75.1% Jew_Moroccan + 24.9% Cypriot @ 4.23
15 90% Jew_Moroccan + 10% Turkish_Balekesir @ 4.24
16 94.4% Jew_Moroccan + 5.6% Sardinian @ 4.3
17 89.1% Jew_Moroccan + 10.9% Turkish @ 4.31
18 91.4% Jew_Moroccan + 8.6% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.32
19 98.5% Jew_Moroccan + 1.5% Atayal @ 4.35
20 98.5% Jew_Moroccan + 1.5% Ami @ 4.35

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:11 PM
The Greeks samples are from Thessaloniki. Still there are 3 of them who plot with Sicilians.

Likely mixed with Pontic or Anatolian Greek...

Bernard Marx
07-27-2016, 10:11 PM
90 percent of Greeks are mainlanders so that's who should be used on the plots.
So are Italians but still we get Sicilian samples everywhere.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:11 PM
They still plot far south than northern Italians in any serious plot, unless it's made by some Greek with an agenda. Deal with it.

But not in Sicily.. Deal with that.

Mike1
07-27-2016, 10:15 PM
This is a better PCA plot from the last Lazaridis paper, here Sicilians plot with mainlander Southern Italians (three samples from Campania and one from Puglia this time, you can read this in the supplementary information) while Cypriots have their own plot and almost close Lebanon and Druze. Unfortunately the only Greeks are from the North of the country and there aren't islanders who basically have similar plot of us.




When islander Greeks are removed, the closest to southern Italians becomes Ashkenazi Jews. I think the Greeks drifting away from the main cluster there are part Pontic.


Yep some Iron Age Greek Genomes will be interesting, and of course from Italy :beerchug:
Especially if southern Italians turn out to be better proxies for ancient Greeks


Here is one Chios islander I share, it scores 17% of Natufian but almost 20% of Iran neolithic which is another "eastern/exotic" component eh...

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 31.75
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 20.07
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 19.69
4 NATUFIAN 16.93
5 SHG_WHG 4.12
6 EHG 3.36
7 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 2.8
8 PAPUAN 0.56
9 SE_ASIAN 0.52
10 SIBERIAN 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Ashkenazi 7.29
2 Sicilian 7.98
3 Cypriot 8.25
4 Jew_Moroccan 8.26
5 Italian_South 9.27
6 Turkish_Istanbul 9.65
7 Turkish 10.51
8 Turkish_Adana 10.98
9 Greek 11.11
10 Turkish_Kayseri 11.75
11 Turkish_Balekesir 13.39
12 Turkish_Aydin 13.72
13 Jew_Tunisian 13.72
14 Albanian 14.29
15 Jew_Libyan 14.34
16 Lebanese 14.43
17 Turkish_Trabzon 14.59
18 Armenian 15.79
19 Druze 16.12
20 Azeri 17.59

These are from South Italy i recall first is Calabrese:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 26.95
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 23.11
3 NATUFIAN 20.29
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 18.09
5 SHG_WHG 4.01
6 EHG 3.04
7 SE_ASIAN 2.66
8 SUB_SAHARAN 1.57
9 PAPUAN 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Moroccan 4.61
2 Cypriot 6.98
3 Jew_Tunisian 9.38
4 Jew_Libyan 9.85
5 Jew_Ashkenazi 10
6 Sicilian 10.1
7 Lebanese 12.12
8 Italian_South 13.49
9 Turkish_Adana 13.83
10 Turkish 13.97
11 Turkish_Kayseri 14.25
12 Turkish_Istanbul 14.52
13 Greek 14.85
14 Druze 15.25
15 Jordanian 15.91
16 Syrian 16.3
17 Turkish_Aydin 16.39
18 Turkish_Balekesir 16.76
19 Jew_iraqi 17.32
20 Albanian 17.49

Second one: probadly Campanian or Calabrian?

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 30.49
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.6
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 17.94
4 NATUFIAN 15.72
5 SHG_WHG 4.54
6 EHG 3.04
7 SE_ASIAN 2.5
8 KARITIANA 1.09
9 PAPUAN 0.71
10 POLAR 0.68
11 SUB_SAHARAN 0.62
12 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 6.93
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 7.7
3 Jew_Moroccan 8.14
4 Italian_South 9.46
5 Cypriot 9.58
6 Greek 10.36
7 Turkish_Istanbul 11.39
8 Turkish 11.47
9 Albanian 13.24
10 Turkish_Adana 13.44
11 Turkish_Kayseri 13.79
12 Turkish_Balekesir 13.9
13 Jew_Tunisian 13.91
14 Jew_Libyan 14.48
15 Turkish_Aydin 14.54
16 Lebanese 15.88
17 Turkish_Trabzon 16.59
18 Bulgarian 18.21
19 Druze 18.24
20 Armenian 18.29

Third: Campanian?

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 31.92
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 21
3 NATUFIAN 16.87
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 16.09
5 SHG_WHG 5.17
6 EHG 5.16
7 SUB_SAHARAN 1.9
8 KARITIANA 1.26
9 SIBERIAN 0.63

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.28
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 4.94
3 Italian_South 7.74
4 Jew_Moroccan 7.75
5 Greek 8.46
6 Cypriot 10.9
7 Albanian 11.46
8 Turkish_Istanbul 11.52
9 Turkish 11.76
10 Jew_Tunisian 13.34
11 Jew_Libyan 13.69
12 Turkish_Adana 14.24
13 Turkish_Balekesir 14.74
14 Turkish_Kayseri 14.99
15 Turkish_Aydin 15.26
16 Bulgarian 16
17 Lebanese 16.27
18 Turkish_Trabzon 18.4
19 Druze 18.78
20 Romanian 19.04

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:15 PM
http://s11.postimg.org/6oigcl8ir/C_Data_Users_Def_Apps_App_Data_INTERNETEXPLORER_T. jpg

This one shows it very well.

CY = Cypriots
SO = South Italians from Crotone
WS = Sicilians from Trapani
EA =Sicilians from Siracusa
GR = Greeks from Thessaloniki and Athens

Notice the Calabrese are closer to Cypriots than they are to Greeks. This is proving my points at your expense.

Thunor
07-27-2016, 10:23 PM
No they aren't. Calabrians are actually 3 times closer to mainland Greeks than to Cypriots. The latter almost plot with Turks and Druzes.

Thunor
07-27-2016, 10:27 PM
Hi Bro, This is a Calabrese i could find on Gedmatch.

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 26.95
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 23.11
3 NATUFIAN 20.29
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 18.09
5 SHG_WHG 4.01
6 EHG 3.04
7 SE_ASIAN 2.66
8 SUB_SAHARAN 1.57
9 PAPUAN 0.27

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Jew_Moroccan 4.61
2 Cypriot 6.98
3 Jew_Tunisian 9.38
4 Jew_Libyan 9.85
5 Jew_Ashkenazi 10
6 Sicilian 10.1
7 Lebanese 12.12
8 Italian_South 13.49
9 Turkish_Adana 13.83
10 Turkish 13.97
11 Turkish_Kayseri 14.25
12 Turkish_Istanbul 14.52
13 Greek 14.85
14 Druze 15.25
15 Jordanian 15.91
16 Syrian 16.3
17 Turkish_Aydin 16.39
18 Turkish_Balekesir 16.76
19 Jew_iraqi 17.32
20 Albanian 17.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.8% Jew_Moroccan + 8.2% Anatolia_ChL @ 2.53
2 90.3% Jew_Moroccan + 9.7% Armenia_ChL @ 2.58
3 91.5% Jew_Moroccan + 8.5% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.07
4 95.9% Jew_Moroccan + 4.1% Anatolia_N @ 3.35
5 95.5% Jew_Moroccan + 4.5% Europe_EN @ 3.42
6 70.8% Lebanese + 29.2% Sardinian @ 3.59
7 95.5% Jew_Moroccan + 4.5% Europe_MNChL @ 3.74
8 93.9% Jew_Moroccan + 6.1% Stuttgart @ 3.8
9 94.3% Jew_Moroccan + 5.7% Iran_recent @ 3.87
10 95.9% Jew_Moroccan + 4.1% Iran_ChL @ 3.92
11 63.9% Syrian + 36.1% Sardinian @ 3.93
12 95.4% Jew_Moroccan + 4.6% Steppe_IA @ 4.05
13 65.6% Druze + 34.4% Sardinian @ 4.16
14 75.1% Jew_Moroccan + 24.9% Cypriot @ 4.23
15 90% Jew_Moroccan + 10% Turkish_Balekesir @ 4.24
16 94.4% Jew_Moroccan + 5.6% Sardinian @ 4.3
17 89.1% Jew_Moroccan + 10.9% Turkish @ 4.31
18 91.4% Jew_Moroccan + 8.6% Turkish_Trabzon @ 4.32
19 98.5% Jew_Moroccan + 1.5% Atayal @ 4.35
20 98.5% Jew_Moroccan + 1.5% Ami @ 4.35

He is obviousl another mixed one. There are accademical clusters floating around since years, and the samples posted by Morges perfectly fit with them.

Mike1
07-27-2016, 10:31 PM
Campanian:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 30
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 23.79
3 NATUFIAN 16.74
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 15.35
5 EHG 6.06
6 SHG_WHG 4.49
7 SUB_SAHARAN 2.82
8 KARITIANA 0.37
9 SE_ASIAN 0.19
10 SIBERIAN 0.1
11 POLAR 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 5.52
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 7.76
3 Jew_Moroccan 8.24
4 Greek 10.1
5 Italian_South 10.18
6 Cypriot 11.46
7 Albanian 12.28
8 Jew_Tunisian 13.18
9 Jew_Libyan 13.4
10 Turkish 13.77
11 Turkish_Istanbul 13.83
12 Turkish_Adana 16.02
13 Turkish_Balekesir 16.53
14 Turkish_Kayseri 16.62
15 Lebanese 16.63
16 Turkish_Aydin 17.11
17 Bulgarian 17.16
18 Turkish_Trabzon 19.84
19 Druze 19.94
20 Jordanian 20.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.3% Jew_Ashkenazi + 14.7% Anatolia_ChL @ 2.33
2 89.3% Sicilian + 10.7% Armenia_ChL @ 3.45
3 90.9% Sicilian + 9.1% Anatolia_ChL @ 3.49
4 92.1% Sicilian + 7.9% Iran_recent @ 3.99
5 90.8% Sicilian + 9.2% Armenia_MLBA @ 4.03
6 94.1% Sicilian + 5.9% Iran_ChL @ 4.04
7 81.3% Sicilian + 18.7% Lebanese @ 4.1
8 92.5% Sicilian + 7.5% Levant_BA @ 4.21
9 75% Sicilian + 25% Cypriot @ 4.23
10 84.7% Jew_Ashkenazi + 15.3% Armenia_ChL @ 4.27
11 85% Sicilian + 15% Jordanian @ 4.28
12 90.5% Sicilian + 9.5% Yemeni @ 4.32
13 67.2% Sicilian + 32.8% Jew_Moroccan @ 4.33
14 92% Jew_Ashkenazi + 8% Anatolia_N @ 4.35
15 86.5% Sicilian + 13.5% Jew_iraqi @ 4.35
16 87.3% Sicilian + 12.7% Palestinian @ 4.44
17 89.2% Sicilian + 10.8% Egyptian @ 4.46
18 86.1% Sicilian + 13.9% Syrian @ 4.49
19 62.4% Jew_Moroccan + 37.6% Albanian @ 4.51
20 79.9% Sicilian + 20.1% Jew_Libyan @ 4.52

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.11
2 West_Med 24.48
3 North_Atlantic 16.05
4 West_Asian 15.64
5 Red_Sea 5.77
6 Baltic 4.31
7 Northeast_African 1.66
8 Siberian 0.32
9 Oceanian 0.3
10 Sub-Saharan 0.22
11 Amerindian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian 2.86
2 East_Sicilian 5.52
3 Central_Greek 6.56
4 West_Sicilian 7.37
5 Sephardic_Jewish 7.88
6 Algerian_Jewish 8.12
7 Italian_Jewish 8.33
8 Italian_Abruzzo 8.42
9 Ashkenazi 9.47
10 Tunisian_Jewish 11.74
11 Libyan_Jewish 12.28
12 Greek_Thessaly 13.21
13 Tuscan 13.75
14 Cyprian 14.01
15 Lebanese_Muslim 17.88
16 Syrian 19.01
17 Turkish 19.84
18 North_Italian 19.88
19 Samaritan 20.87
20 Bulgarian 21.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.8% Cyprian + 24.2% French_Basque @ 2.17
2 66.5% Cyprian + 33.5% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.32
3 95.9% South_Italian + 4.1% Sardinian @ 2.56
4 95.2% South_Italian + 4.8% Moroccan @ 2.59
5 68.3% Cyprian + 31.7% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.59
6 98.5% South_Italian + 1.5% Somali @ 2.65
7 98.8% South_Italian + 1.2% Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator @ 2.65
8 98.5% South_Italian + 1.5% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 2.66
9 98.5% South_Italian + 1.5% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 2.67
10 69.9% Cyprian + 30.1% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.68
11 98.3% South_Italian + 1.7% Ethiopian_Tigray @ 2.68
12 98.4% South_Italian + 1.6% Ethiopian_Amhara @ 2.69
13 96.2% South_Italian + 3.8% Mozabite_Berber @ 2.7
14 99% South_Italian + 1% Ethiopian_Gumuz @ 2.72
15 96.4% South_Italian + 3.6% Algerian @ 2.73
16 71.1% Cyprian + 28.9% Southwest_French @ 2.75
17 70.1% Cyprian + 29.9% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.75
18 99% South_Italian + 1% Maasai @ 2.76
19 96.7% South_Italian + 3.3% Tunisian @ 2.76
20 99.1% South_Italian + 0.9% Hadza @ 2.76

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:37 PM
No they aren't. Calabrians are actually 3 times closer to mainland Greeks than to Cypriots. The latter almost plot with Turks and Druzes.

That's not what I'm seeing. Either way the Calabrese and Sicilian cluster is closer to the Levantines than is the Greek cluster, which is representative of mainlanders who make up the VAST majority of the country.

Mike1
07-27-2016, 10:40 PM
He is obviousl another mixed one. There are accademical clusters floating around since years, and the samples posted by Morges perfectly fit with them.

Well, i runned it on Jewish test K13, so not Italkim but a more "exotic" Calabrian.

Jtest Oracle results:

Jtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

Kit A275297

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 EAST_MED 32.64
2 WEST_MED 16.37
3 MIDDLE_EASTERN 13.56
4 WEST_ASIAN 10.03
5 ATLANTIC 6.73
6 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 6.64
7 ASHKENAZI 6.02
8 SOUTH_BALTIC 5.25
9 EAST_AFRICAN 1.82
10 EAST_EURO 0.94

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 7.44
2 GR 7.55
3 Samaritan 17.71
4 Tuscan 18.08
5 IQ 19.6
6 TR 19.6
7 Assyrian 20.48
8 Druze 20.62
9 Mandean 21.59
10 North_Italian 22.45
11 Armenian 22.71
12 AJ 24.49
13 RO 24.59
14 Kurdish 25.4
15 IR 26.26
16 Serbian 26.51
17 PT 28.21
18 Algerian 28.52
19 Moroccan 29.58
20 ES 30.21

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.4% GR + 13.6% Bedouin @ 3.31
2 72.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 27.4% Samaritan @ 3.51
3 50.5% Samaritan + 49.5% Tuscan @ 3.61
4 56.1% Samaritan + 43.9% North_Italian @ 3.61
5 73.2% GR + 26.8% Samaritan @ 4.14
6 77.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 22.5% Druze @ 4.63
7 83.9% GR + 16.1% Algerian @ 5.31
8 89.6% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 10.4% Bedouin @ 5.55
9 66.1% Samaritan + 33.9% FR @ 5.55
10 62.3% Samaritan + 37.7% PT @ 5.76
11 79.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 20.1% IQ @ 5.76
12 93.2% GR + 6.8% Ethiopian @ 5.83
13 79.9% GR + 20.1% IQ @ 5.92
14 89% GR + 11% Mozabite_Berber @ 5.92
15 64% Samaritan + 36% ES @ 6.04
16 86.7% GR + 13.3% Moroccan @ 6.12
17 94.2% GR + 5.8% Somali @ 6.12
18 58.9% Samaritan + 41.1% RO @ 6.3
19 84.5% South_Italian_&_Sicilian + 15.5% Mandean @ 6.41
20 83.3% GR + 16.7% Druze @ 6.45


I think each DNA ancestry calculator gives different results, on K12b almost every European seems less exotic

K12b result:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 36.23
2 Atlantic_Med 23.61
3 Southwest_Asian 15.77
4 North_European 10.35
5 Gedrosia 6.07
6 Northwest_African 5.83
7 East_African 1.35
8 East_Asian 0.59
9 Sub_Saharan 0.2

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 5.15
2 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 5.82
3 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 6.1
4 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.53
5 Sicilian (Dodecad) 7.53
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 7.81
7 Greek (Dodecad) 12.67
8 Cypriots (Behar) 13.78
9 C_Italian (Dodecad) 14.85
10 Lebanese (Behar) 15.97
11 Turkish (Dodecad) 17.23
12 O_Italian (Dodecad) 17.92
13 Syrians (Behar) 18.96
14 Tuscan (HGDP) 18.97
15 Turks (Behar) 19.39
16 Jordanians (Behar) 19.57
17 Druze (HGDP) 19.61
18 TSI30 (Metspalu) 20.05
19 Palestinian (HGDP) 21.08
20 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 22.74

Thunor
07-27-2016, 10:49 PM
Calabrese! LOL

80% South Italian and 20% Iraqi.

Yes sure.

What's next? 50% Lebanese and 50% Sicilian?

Thunor
07-27-2016, 10:51 PM
That's not what I'm seeing. Either way the Calabrese and Sicilian cluster is closer to the Levantines than is the Greek cluster, which is representative of mainlanders who make up the VAST majority of the country.

I don't want to ruin your East Med fantasies, but none of them is especially close to Levantines. You also forget that mainland Greeks from Laconia plot south of Sicilians in Paschou et al.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 10:54 PM
I don't want to ruin your East Med fantasies, but none of them is especially close to Levantines. You also forget that mainland Greeks from Laconia plot south of Sicilians in Paschou et al.

They don't. There is no PCA plot where that is the case, and in the chart showing the colored bars to show autosomal, Sicilians are between Laconia and Crete. Don't lie.

Mike1
07-27-2016, 10:56 PM
Calabrese! LOL

80% South Italian and 20% Iraqi.

Yes sure.

What's next? 50% Lebanese and 50% Sicilian?

This is a Sicilian i could find, seems normal except the high SSA

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 29.42
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 22.77
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 16.81
4 NATUFIAN 15.46
5 EHG 6.61
6 SHG_WHG 4.62
7 SUB_SAHARAN 3.24
8 POLAR 0.85
9 SIBERIAN 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 6.44
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 8.43
3 Jew_Moroccan 9.01
4 Greek 10.26
5 Italian_South 10.79
6 Cypriot 11.53
7 Turkish 12.37
8 Turkish_Istanbul 12.45
9 Albanian 12.6
10 Jew_Tunisian 14.2
11 Jew_Libyan 14.44
12 Turkish_Adana 14.72
13 Turkish_Balekesir 15.19
14 Turkish_Kayseri 15.24
15 Turkish_Aydin 15.83
16 Lebanese 16.22
17 Bulgarian 17.15
18 Turkish_Trabzon 18.55
19 Druze 19.59
20 Syrian 19.88

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86.2% Sicilian + 13.8% Armenia_ChL @ 3.19
2 86.7% Sicilian + 13.3% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.35
3 81.9% Jew_Ashkenazi + 18.1% Armenia_ChL @ 3.42
4 84.7% Jew_Ashkenazi + 15.3% Anatolia_ChL @ 3.48
5 88.8% Sicilian + 11.2% Iran_recent @ 3.53
6 91.6% Sicilian + 8.4% Iran_ChL @ 3.65
7 94.9% Sicilian + 5.1% Iran_LN @ 4.48
8 94.9% Sicilian + 5.1% Iran_N @ 4.48
9 57% Albanian + 43% Lebanese @ 4.53
10 90.3% Sicilian + 9.7% Anatolia_ChL @ 4.53
11 89.1% Sicilian + 10.9% Iranian_Bandari @ 4.64
12 86.8% Sicilian + 13.2% Kurd_C @ 4.7
13 83.1% Sicilian + 16.9% Assyrian @ 4.77
14 91.4% Sicilian + 8.6% Makrani @ 4.77
15 78.2% Sicilian + 21.8% Lebanese @ 4.78
16 86.2% Sicilian + 13.8% Iranian_Lori @ 4.81
17 83.7% Jew_Ashkenazi + 16.3% Armenia_MLBA @ 4.83
18 83% Sicilian + 17% Jew_iraqi @ 4.83
19 92% Sicilian + 8% Kurd_SE @ 4.86
20 92% Sicilian + 8% Brahui @ 4.87

On Dodecad K12b:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 32.8
2 Atlantic_Med 25.7
3 Southwest_Asian 13.97
4 North_European 12.29
5 Gedrosia 8.21
6 Northwest_African 5.2
7 Sub_Saharan 1.36
8 East_African 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.61
2 Sicilian (Dodecad) 6.77
3 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 7.73
4 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 7.94
5 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 8.25
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 9.44
7 Greek (Dodecad) 11.33
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.71
9 O_Italian (Dodecad) 14.01
10 Tuscan (HGDP) 15.64
11 TSI30 (Metspalu) 16.48
12 Cypriots (Behar) 17.83
13 Turkish (Dodecad) 19.22
14 Lebanese (Behar) 19.47
15 Turks (Behar) 21.32
16 Syrians (Behar) 21.91
17 N_Italian (Dodecad) 21.97
18 Jordanians (Behar) 22.87
19 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 23
20 North_Italian (HGDP) 23.25

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.1% Lebanese (Behar) + 46.9% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.85
2 54.5% Lebanese (Behar) + 45.5% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 3.03
3 87.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.9% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 3.14
4 87.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 12.9% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 3.27
5 84.5% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.5% German (Dodecad) @ 3.27
6 54.3% TSI30 (Metspalu) + 45.7% Lebanese (Behar) @ 3.31
7 57.2% Druze (HGDP) + 42.8% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 3.33
8 84.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 15.3% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) @ 3.42
9 66.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 33.1% Jordanians (Behar) @ 3.43
10 61.4% Lebanese (Behar) + 38.6% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 3.48
11 85.3% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 14.7% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 3.5
12 86.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.9% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 3.5
13 58.5% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 41.5% Lebanese (Behar) @ 3.5
14 63.2% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 36.8% Lebanese (Behar) @ 3.55
15 57.2% Druze (HGDP) + 42.8% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 3.56
16 83.7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 16.3% Hungarians (Behar) @ 3.58
17 86.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.6% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 3.59
18 62.5% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 37.5% Jordanians (Behar) @ 3.63
19 86.4% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 13.6% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 3.66
20 90.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 9.1% Brahui (HGDP) @ 3.66

Larth
07-27-2016, 10:56 PM
Well, i runned it on Jewish test K13, so not Italkim but a more "exotic" Calabrian.


Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Italian_&_Sicilian 7.44


Hi Mike1, I guess you found this thread accidentally. :P

Anyway, 7.44 is a considerable distance.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:00 PM
Hi Mike1, I guess you found this thread accidentally. :P

Anyway, 7.44 is a considerable distance.

So is 6% via the result you posted. Don't be hypocritical now. Your sort all behave exactly the same, if you aren't multiple accounts of one person.

Thunor
07-27-2016, 11:00 PM
They don't. There is no PCA plot where that is the case, and in the chart showing the colored bars to show autosomal, Sicilians are between Laconia and Crete. Don't lie.

The actual study has Sicily and Pelopponese as equally Northern and both above Laconia.

https://s31.postimg.org/8ap5z2nkr/F2_large.jpg

Thunor
07-27-2016, 11:01 PM
Hi Mike1, I guess you found this thread accidentally. :P

Anyway, 7.44 is a considerable distance.

15 78.2% Sicilian + 21.8% Lebanese @ 4.78


LOOOOOOOOOL

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:02 PM
The actual study has Sicily and Pelopponese as equally Northern and both above Laconia.

https://s31.postimg.org/8ap5z2nkr/F2_large.jpg

Look at the chart where they're ranked autosomal my due to proximity to the Near East and you'll see Sicily before ANY mainland Greek.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:03 PM
So is 6% via the result you posted. Don't be hypocritical now. Your sort all behave exactly the same, if you aren't multiple accounts of one person.

You seem a bit confused, I have not posted anything. My ip is verifiable and I'm not under proxy. And why are you answering me in place of Mike1?

Mike1
07-27-2016, 11:04 PM
Hi Mike1, I guess you found this thread accidentally. :P

Anyway, 7.44 is a considerable distance.

This result is supposed to be Mainland Greek:

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 28.76
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 20.54
3 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 18.93
4 NATUFIAN 14.23
5 EHG 7.61
6 SHG_WHG 5.63
7 POLAR 2.71
8 PAPUAN 0.76
9 SUB_SAHARAN 0.43
10 KARITIANA 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 8.32
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 9.55
3 Turkish 10.06
4 Turkish_Istanbul 10.14
5 Greek 10.5
6 Jew_Moroccan 10.84
7 Italian_South 11.77
8 Cypriot 11.9
9 Turkish_Adana 12.78
10 Turkish_Kayseri 13.06
11 Albanian 13.24
12 Turkish_Balekesir 13.34
13 Turkish_Aydin 14
14 Jew_Tunisian 16.18
15 Lebanese 16.48
16 Jew_Libyan 16.61
17 Turkish_Trabzon 16.74
18 Bulgarian 17.03
19 Balkar 17.98
20 Armenian 18.05

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.8% Jew_Ashkenazi + 21.2% Armenia_ChL @ 3.12
2 81.6% Sicilian + 18.4% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.42
3 84.3% Sicilian + 15.7% Iran_recent @ 3.53
4 79.2% Jew_Ashkenazi + 20.8% Armenia_MLBA @ 3.61
5 88.5% Sicilian + 11.5% Iran_ChL @ 3.97
6 92.1% Sicilian + 7.9% Iran_LN @ 4.24
7 92.1% Sicilian + 7.9% Iran_N @ 4.24
8 82.5% Sicilian + 17.5% Armenia_ChL @ 4.37
9 79.3% Sicilian + 20.7% Kurd_C @ 4.64
10 75.5% Cypriot + 24.5% Europe_LNBA @ 4.74
11 78% Sicilian + 22% Iranian_Lori @ 4.79
12 75.6% Italian_South + 24.4% Armenia_ChL @ 4.85
13 87.3% Sicilian + 12.7% Brahui @ 4.94
14 77% Sicilian + 23% Iranian @ 4.94
15 86.7% Sicilian + 13.3% Makrani @ 4.95
16 87.2% Sicilian + 12.8% Balochi @ 5.02
17 83.9% Sicilian + 16.1% Iranian_Bandari @ 5.1
18 72.8% Sicilian + 27.2% Azeri @ 5.1
19 61.7% Albanian + 38.3% Jew_iraqi @ 5.15
20 87.6% Sicilian + 12.4% Kurd_SE @ 5.17

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:06 PM
15 78.2% Sicilian + 21.8% Lebanese @ 4.78

80% South Italian and 20% Iraqi.

Basically a south Italian with a foreigner grandparent.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:07 PM
Basically a south Italian with a foreigner grandparent.

What proof do you have of that. None.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:09 PM
You seem a bit confused, I have not posted anything. My ip is verifiable and I'm not under proxy. And why are you answering me in place of Mike1?

You were criticizing him for something you did the same thing for. You said he posted a result with a large distance from the average but so did you.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:12 PM
You were criticizing him for something you did the same thing for. You said he posted a result with a large distance from the average but so did you.

And you answered in place of him. I see. It is a fact that 7.44 is a considerable distance.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:12 PM
And you answered in place of him. I see. It is a fact that 7.44 is a considerable distance.

I answered you because you are the one giving me an attitude, not him.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:15 PM
I answered you because you are the one giving me an attitude, not him.

I get the feeling that you know him very well.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:15 PM
I asked for this thread to be locked. I will not deal with the three of you for one second longer.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:15 PM
I get the feeling that you know him very well.

Please. You're only here because Morges brought you for reinforcements. Do not even go there with me.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:18 PM
I asked for this thread to be locked. I will not deal with the three of you for one second longer.

I'm really very sorry to hear that. It seems you don't like who disagree with you or have different ideas from yours.

Mike1
07-27-2016, 11:19 PM
15 78.2% Sicilian + 21.8% Lebanese @ 4.78


LOOOOOOOOOL

This one is a Sicilian also "exotic" but far less than the Calabrian.

K12b first:

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 37.87
2 Atlantic_Med 27.26
3 Southwest_Asian 13.83
4 North_European 11.06
5 Gedrosia 4.17
6 Northwest_African 4.08
7 Sub_Saharan 1.34
8 East_Asian 0.38

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 3.55
2 Sicilian (Dodecad) 3.84
3 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 4.04
4 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 4.11
5 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 5.97
6 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 9.36
7 Greek (Dodecad) 9.86
8 C_Italian (Dodecad) 11.66
9 Cypriots (Behar) 14.18
10 O_Italian (Dodecad) 15.63

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.1% Samaritians (Behar) @ 1.83
2 63.1% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) + 36.9% Greek (Dodecad) @ 1.92
3 87.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 12.9% Druze (HGDP) @ 2.08
4 86% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 14% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.14
5 88.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.2% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 2.26
6 87.9% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 12.1% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.26
7 88.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 11.6% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.31
8 82.2% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 17.8% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.37
9 89.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 10.2% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.37
10 56.2% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 43.8% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.47

It looks "average" relatively on Neolotic K13

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 31.92
2 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 21
3 NATUFIAN 16.87
4 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 16.09
5 SHG_WHG 5.17
6 EHG 5.16
7 SUB_SAHARAN 1.9
8 KARITIANA 1.26
9 SIBERIAN 0.63

# Population (source) Distance
1 Sicilian 4.28
2 Jew_Ashkenazi 4.94
3 Italian_South 7.74
4 Jew_Moroccan 7.75
5 Greek 8.46
6 Cypriot 10.9
7 Albanian 11.46
8 Turkish_Istanbul 11.52
9 Turkish 11.76
10 Jew_Tunisian 13.34

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.8% Sicilian + 15.2% Jew_iraqi @ 1.94
2 85.3% Sicilian + 14.7% Jew_Iranian @ 2.01
3 85.3% Sicilian + 14.7% Assyrian @ 2.01
4 89.5% Jew_Ashkenazi + 10.5% Armenia_ChL @ 2.15
5 81.4% Sicilian + 18.6% Lebanese @ 2.17
6 66.4% Greek + 33.6% Lebanese @ 2.25
7 84.3% Sicilian + 15.7% Syrian @ 2.25
8 58.9% Albanian + 41.1% Lebanese @ 2.29
9 91.3% Jew_Ashkenazi + 8.7% Anatolia_ChL @ 2.31
10 83.9% Sicilian + 16.1% Druze @ 2.35

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:21 PM
I'm really very sorry to hear that. It seems you don't like who disagree with you or have different ideas from yours.

Disagreement and attacking ones character are different things. And you plot south of Greeks. Accept it. Look on 90% of PCA plots and not the one you think says what you want it to.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:23 PM
Please. You're only here because Morges brought you for reinforcements. Do not even go there with me.

To be honest it seems that there are many users here because you brought them for reinforcement but you like to blame others for that.


Disagreement and attacking ones character are different things. And you plot south of Greeks. Accept it. Look on 90% of PCA plots and not the one you think says what you want it to.

I don't know what you're talking about, being that I don't plot south of Greeks.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:26 PM
To be honest it seems that there are many users here because you brought them for reinforcement but you like to blame others for that.

I posted a damn result and you people act like the world is about to implode. I shattered your fragile egos and your Eurocentric racist fantasies and you can't take it. You are irrationally driven by emotion, don't question sample populations on studies for selection bias whether intended or not and can't grasp that there could possibly be an alternative explanation. You are driven by emotion to the extent you instantly go into attack mode because you are driven by overt prejudice, but I am not. So don't reflect on me, go take a hard look in the mirror and face your inner demons, and your DNA results. You will feel so much better.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:28 PM
I posted a damn result and you people act like the world is about to implode. I shattered your fragile egos and your Eurocentric racist fantasies and you can't take it. You are irrationally driven by emotion, don't question sample populations on studies for selection bias whether intended or not and can't grasp that there could possibly be an alternative explanation. You are driven by emotion to the extent you instantly go into attack mode because you are driven by overt prejudice, but I am not. So don't reflect on me, go take a hard look in the mirror and face your inner demons, and your DNA results. You will feel so much better.

You're overeacting, I'm pretty sure that the one irrationally driven by emotion is more likely you in this moment.

Mike1
07-27-2016, 11:29 PM
To be honest it seems that there are many users here because you brought them for reinforcement but you like to blame others for that.



I don't know what you're talking about, being that I don't plot south of Greeks.

Edit...............

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:29 PM
You're overeacting, I'm pretty sure that the one irrationally driven by emotion is more likely you in this moment.

I posted one result. One. I spent hours calculating averages to show you damn people I don't have anything to hide and it wasn't enough. I'm done pleasing the lot of you and will continue to post what I please and if you don't like it I REALLY could not care less. I'm sick of being attacked by you ItalicRoots people.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:30 PM
You guys argue about 3-4% percentages, Stormfront members won't think of you being different scoring 1-2% more WHG warrior than Ashkenazi jews.

Racists argue about minute percentage differences.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:30 PM
I posted one result. One. I spent hours calculating averages to show you damn people I don't have anything to hide and it wasn't enough. I'm done pleasing the lot of you and will continue to post what I please and if you don't like it I REALLY could not care less. I'm sick of being attacked by you ItalicRoots people.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

Sikeliot
07-27-2016, 11:32 PM
Don't play stupid. This was all plotted and calculated by you people, you've done it to me for years.

Larth
07-27-2016, 11:36 PM
Don't play stupid. This was all plotted and calculated by you people, you've done it to me for years.

I still don't get your point.

Moderator
07-27-2016, 11:37 PM
This thread will be closed. If the back and forth bickering continues in other threads, individuals will be banned.