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Amerijoe
07-27-2016, 12:32 AM
http://phys.org/news/2016-07-grain-rice-ancient-dna-view.html

Jean M
08-23-2016, 06:51 PM
The actual paper is at http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/08/18/molbev.msw142

Masahiko Kumagai et al., Rice Varieties in Archaic East Asia: Reduction of Its Diversity from Past to Present Times, Mol Biol Evol (2016)


The Asian cultivated rice, Oryza sativa, is one of the most important crops feeding more than a third of global population. In spite of the studies for several decades, the origin and domestication history of rice varietal groups, japonica and indica, have not been fully unveiled. Genetic information of ancient rice remains is essential for direct and exclusive insight into the domestication history of rice. We performed ancient DNA analysis of 950- to 2,800-year-old rice remains excavated from Japan and Korea. We found the presence of both japonica- and indica-type varieties in the Yayoi period and the middle ages of Japan and the middle part of Korea Peninsula 2,000 years ago. It is popularly considered that japonica has been exclusively cultivated in northern part of East Asia including Japan and Korea. Our result disclosed unexpectedly wide diversity of rice varieties in archaic East Asia. The present results from ancient rice DNA reveal an exclusive insight for the domestication history of rice which is not provided as far as contemporary rice.

vettor
08-24-2016, 06:20 PM
An interesting paper linking East Asian rice with Italian rice ( the biggest rice grower in Europe )

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0080351

Jean M
08-24-2016, 08:02 PM
Interesting Vettor. I have added that paper to the Vault.

Magnetic
08-24-2016, 08:24 PM
there should be a rice calculator on gedmatch . I wonder how much rice dna we all have

Saetro
08-24-2016, 08:39 PM
Fascinating article for rice-growers - and eaters.
But tantalisingly close to providing more history without doing so.
Maybe in the references 14 (Lupotto) or 15 (Tinarelli)? I have not read them yet.
There is a little more at the rice industry site http://enterisi.it/servizi/Menu/dinamica.aspx?idSezione=18866&idArea=18920&idCat=18921&ID=18921&TipoElemento=categoria
I know Gian Galeazzo Sforza had a relatively short life, but he must have been a remarkable young man if he gave a bag of rice to the d'Este family in 1475, when Sforza was only 6 years old.

If rice originally came via the Spanish, is there any historic or genetic evidence to show which part of Spain they came from?
The article mentions Aragon, but current rice production seems to be nearer the mouth of the Ebro, in Catalunya, which may perhaps have been temporarily in Aragonese hands in the fifteenth century, although the great song of Catalan loss of country is from much later.
And where did they get it from? The Moors? and so on.
Which leads to asking whether there were any low lying areas in the south of Italy or Sicily that could have had a little rice growing during similar occupation. (Sorry, Orlando Furioso is a favorite of mine, and might be warping my thinking.)

Any one know?

I certainly have trouble with any story about traders bringing rice.
Rice growing has different techniques from grains that were already cultivated: you can't just bring a bag and start production, you need a farmer or a treatise.

Amerijoe
08-24-2016, 08:55 PM
there should be a rice calculator on gedmatch . I wonder how much rice dna we all have

Rice pudding, I'm a liter low, and I've been scratching terribly, I think I have Head Rice. :lol:

vettor
08-25-2016, 05:57 AM
Fascinating article for rice-growers - and eaters.
But tantalisingly close to providing more history without doing so.
Maybe in the references 14 (Lupotto) or 15 (Tinarelli)? I have not read them yet.
There is a little more at the rice industry site http://enterisi.it/servizi/Menu/dinamica.aspx?idSezione=18866&idArea=18920&idCat=18921&ID=18921&TipoElemento=categoria
I know Gian Galeazzo Sforza had a relatively short life, but he must have been a remarkable young man if he gave a bag of rice to the d'Este family in 1475, when Sforza was only 6 years old.

If rice originally came via the Spanish, is there any historic or genetic evidence to show which part of Spain they came from?
The article mentions Aragon, but current rice production seems to be nearer the mouth of the Ebro, in Catalunya, which may perhaps have been temporarily in Aragonese hands in the fifteenth century, although the great song of Catalan loss of country is from much later.
And where did they get it from? The Moors? and so on.
Which leads to asking whether there were any low lying areas in the south of Italy or Sicily that could have had a little rice growing during similar occupation. (Sorry, Orlando Furioso is a favorite of mine, and might be warping my thinking.)

Any one know?

I certainly have trouble with any story about traders bringing rice.
Rice growing has different techniques from grains that were already cultivated: you can't just bring a bag and start production, you need a farmer or a treatise.

One of the unintentional end products of the clearing of the Lombardy plains for the establishment of rice fields in the fifteenth century was risotto. The rice I speak of is Asiatic rice (Oryza sativa L.) and not African rice (Oryza glaberrima Steud.), which has been cultivated in West Africa for several millennia. The motivation for the clearing and reclaiming of the plains was simply the demand of the growing towns for food. That demand was met not by rice growers but by budding capitalists who had the financial wherewithal to back the farmers in establishing these rice fields in the Po Valley. One of the earliest references I know of concerning rice in northern Italy is a letter of September 27, 1475 from Galeazzo Maria Sforza to the Duke of Ferrara concerning twelve sacks of rice.
In Venice, a deliberation of the Council of Ten in July 7, 1533, exempts rice from an excise tax because it takes the place of vegetables. The Provenšal writer Quiqueran de Beaujeu wrote in 1551 of riziculture in Provence. One can’t help but notice that rice was being eaten in Europe before the development of riziculture on the Lombardian plains. The fourteenth-century cookery manuscript known as the Libro per cuoco by an anonymous Venetian gives a recipe, rixo in bona manera--that is, a kind of porridge of rice cooked in almond milk with sugar.

vettor
08-25-2016, 05:58 AM
Fascinating article for rice-growers - and eaters.
But tantalisingly close to providing more history without doing so.
Maybe in the references 14 (Lupotto) or 15 (Tinarelli)? I have not read them yet.
There is a little more at the rice industry site http://enterisi.it/servizi/Menu/dinamica.aspx?idSezione=18866&idArea=18920&idCat=18921&ID=18921&TipoElemento=categoria
I know Gian Galeazzo Sforza had a relatively short life, but he must have been a remarkable young man if he gave a bag of rice to the d'Este family in 1475, when Sforza was only 6 years old.

If rice originally came via the Spanish, is there any historic or genetic evidence to show which part of Spain they came from?
The article mentions Aragon, but current rice production seems to be nearer the mouth of the Ebro, in Catalunya, which may perhaps have been temporarily in Aragonese hands in the fifteenth century, although the great song of Catalan loss of country is from much later.
And where did they get it from? The Moors? and so on.
Which leads to asking whether there were any low lying areas in the south of Italy or Sicily that could have had a little rice growing during similar occupation. (Sorry, Orlando Furioso is a favorite of mine, and might be warping my thinking.)

Any one know?

I certainly have trouble with any story about traders bringing rice.
Rice growing has different techniques from grains that were already cultivated: you can't just bring a bag and start production, you need a farmer or a treatise.

One of the unintentional end products of the clearing of the Lombardy plains for the establishment of rice fields in the fifteenth century was risotto. The rice I speak of is Asiatic rice (Oryza sativa L.) and not African rice (Oryza glaberrima Steud.), which has been cultivated in West Africa for several millennia. The motivation for the clearing and reclaiming of the plains was simply the demand of the growing towns for food. That demand was met not by rice growers but by budding capitalists who had the financial wherewithal to back the farmers in establishing these rice fields in the Po Valley. One of the earliest references I know of concerning rice in northern Italy is a letter of September 27, 1475 from Galeazzo Maria Sforza to the Duke of Ferrara concerning twelve sacks of rice.
In Venice, a deliberation of the Council of Ten in July 7, 1533, exempts rice from an excise tax because it takes the place of vegetables. The Provenšal writer Quiqueran de Beaujeu wrote in 1551 of riziculture in Provence. One can’t help but notice that rice was being eaten in Europe before the development of riziculture on the Lombardian plains. The fourteenth-century cookery manuscript known as the Libro per cuoco by an anonymous Venetian gives a recipe, rixo in bona manera--that is, a kind of porridge of rice cooked in almond milk with sugar.