View Full Version : L371 (L21>DF13>L371) aka S300 and 17-14-10

11-21-2012, 06:11 PM
R-L371 is a Y-DNA Terminal R1b SNP found in some men having ancestors from NW Wales.

The POBI Study (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18489735) and additional studies may assist in confirming their claim to being "Ancient Britons"

This Ancient British male Y-SNP is also known as: R1b-L371; R-L371; R-S300; Y Chromosome Position 17165864; R1b1a2a1a1b3a8; R-17-14-10.

The mutation was T>G.

R-L371 Welsh surnames include: Griffith, Jones, Jenkins, Evans, Pugh, etc.

R-L371 had a genesis in NW Wales 1000 years ago and is found now in male descendants living in Wales, England, USA, Australia, Canada, etc.

R-L371 males descend from upstream and more Ancient "R1b" Haplogroups:

R-M269 / S3 / R1b1a2 5500 YBP ( est. Years Before Present)
R-L11 / S127 4800 YBP
R-P312 / S116 4400 YBP
R-L21 / S145 4000 YBP
R-DF13 / S521 3500 YBP
R-L371 / S300 1000 YBP

The earlier ancestors to R-L371 men perhaps came into Wales from Galicia, Spain (a Celtic NW Iberian region).

About .1% (1 in 1,000) of Y-DNA tested men in the U.S. are R-L371.

In certain NW Wales areas, it is thought this percentage could rise to about 1% (10 in 1,000).

The R-L371 "Adam" was likely born in geographically isolated Northwest Wales (perhaps Gwynedd county or Anglesey county) around 1000 AD.

R-L371 males have a 3 Part Rare Y-STR Signature: DYS448=17; DYS456=14; DYS450=10.

A major branch divider is DYS385a= 11 (Griffith, Jones, etc.).

DYS650=20 is unique only to the Griffith & Jones clan.

R-L371 men have genetic affinity in NW Wales as well as the Southern Orkney Islands. This POBI Map (pink squares) helps illustrates this. (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2012/07/map1.jpg)

A recent study of 10 R-L371 men and their Y-DNA and Autosomal DNA has been done to confirm Neolithic Iberian genetic signals. DYS456=14 or 15 is many times indicative of Iberian R1b ancestry.

Please contact jonesge (at) yahoo.com if you would like more information on this recent study and to do further research on R-L371. Please provide a brief summary of your qualifications to do research in this area.

Little bit
11-21-2012, 09:22 PM
R-L371 males have a 3 Part Rare Y-STR Signature: DYS448=17; DYS456=14; DYS450=10.

A major branch divider is DYS385a= 11 (Griffith, Jones, etc.).

DYS650=20 is unique only to the Griffith & Jones clan.

My grandfather is Griffith, said to have descended from Wales. I just got the email today, as a matter of fact, that his kit was received at the lab (FTDNA). It's Wednesday, so hopefully it get's batched tonight. He's L-21 with the asterisk at 23andme. There's an outside chance that there's been an NPE...hopefully not. The specific markers you added to your post is particularly appreciated, and it seems all but DYS450=10 will be verifiable with my grandfather's 37 marker test. Many thanks for this very useful post and here's hoping I can someday join my grandpa to this interesting lineage:beerchug:

11-21-2012, 10:54 PM
Being R-L21* at 23andMe is not real conclusive at this time for your Griffith being R-L371 ... but it is promising.

As you may now, R-L371 is not one of the Y-SNPs tested for at 23andMe. However, I can look for Autosomal DNA Welsh and Iberian AIM Markers on your 23andMe raw data file if you email it to me jonesge (at) yahoo.com.

On a 37 Y-DNA Marker test at FTDNA, if DYS448 = 17 AND DYS456 = 14, there is a 90% probability of being Welsh R-L371+.

The probabilities go even higher of being R-L371+ on a 37 Marker test if there is a recognized Welsh paternal origin Y-DNA surname such as Griffith, Jones, Pugh etc.

DYS450 is in the 67 Marker upgrade panel and if it is a "10" then you are 100% a R-L371+

Alternatively, you can 100% confirm having the R-L371 Y-SNP test by taking an individual $29 FTDNA SNP Test for SNP R-L371 or going big time for $199 at National Geographic with the Geno 2.0 Test since the Terminal (no SNPs under it) R-L371 SNP is included there. If it were me, I would do a 67 Marker upgrade test at FTDNA during their Holiday Sale as it will help you find more Griffith cousins that way.

Little bit
11-22-2012, 12:02 AM
Batch 491 expected 1/4/13 and 1/18/13. Let's hope it doesn't take that long! B)

Little bit
12-03-2012, 01:51 PM
First panel 1-12 came in. Only marker from your list I can verify is DYS385a= 11.

Cullen's subclade predictor at 12 markers says:

Haplogroups and probabilities are as follows:
R1b-IrishIII =>26% R1b-S21-Scottish =>22% R1b-E.Europe =>17% R1b-Frisian3 =>7% R1b-C.Europe =>6% R1b-S21-Scottish2 =>4% R1b-Frisian4 =>3% R1a =>2% R1a-Jewish =>2% R1b =>2% R1b-North/South 1 =>2% R1b-S26 =>2% R1b-S28 =>2% R1b-S.Irish =>1%

Only 1 perfect match, I won't type his full name but his last name is Griffith!

Few other matches though, not like my husband (R-L226) who had 100's of perfect matches at 12 markers and even more further steps:

Country Match Total Country Total Percentage Comments
Ireland 3 14064 < 0.1 %
Scotland 5 11425 < 0.1 %
United Kingdom 1 10657 < 0.1 %
United States 1 2564 < 0.1 %
Wales 1 2029 < 0.1 %

Little bit
12-05-2012, 08:03 AM
R-L371 males have a 3 Part Rare Y-STR Signature: DYS448=17; DYS456=14; DYS450=10.

A major branch divider is DYS385a= 11 (Griffith, Jones, etc.).

DYS650=20 is unique only to the Griffith & Jones clan.

Looks like no match :(

Subclade predictor says:
Haplogroups and probabilities are as follows:
R1b-Leinster =>61% R1b =>14% R1b-North/South 2 =>9% R1b-S26 =>5% R1b-North/South 1 =>3% R1b-S.Irish =>2% R1b-E.Europe =>2% R1b-S28 =>2%

Only 7 matches at 37 markers, 1 6-step, 6 7-step. None are snp tested. This looks like this will be tougher to figure out than my husband's lineage.

04-18-2013, 03:56 PM
I moved this over and put into a consistent thread SNP based discussion format.

From what I know, Robert Hughes discovered an STR off-modal signature pattern that he called Wales I. He later renamed it to 17-14-10 for the unusual pattern of DYS448=17 DYS456=14 DYS450=10

10-02-2013, 02:16 PM
I am Spanish, and in the L371 SNP I have nor thymine nor guanine, but adenine. Do I qualify as L371+?