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Kurd
08-13-2016, 07:34 PM
I have spent the last couple of days exploring the relationship of various ancients and E Asians to S And W Asians, particularly Kurds, via dstas. This thread will be used to post results for Kurds/W & S Asians - E Asians.

I will start another thread for the results reflecting the relationships with EHG/AG3/MA1/WHG.

I believe I have identified the E Asian population resposible for the E Asian phenotype, as well as autosomes in Kurds, and it is definitely not Han. This population shares a signicantly longer drift path than other E Asians with Kurds.

Moving forward I will use this E Asian surrogate in lieu of Han to attempt better qpAdm fits for Kurds.

I will start posting within a couple of hours.

Halgurd
08-13-2016, 08:45 PM
Thanks for doing this, it is actually a topic that interests me a lot considering my apparent elevated East Asian admixture by Kurdish standards.

Kurd
08-13-2016, 09:41 PM
Thanks for doing this, it is actually a topic that interests me a lot considering my apparent elevated East Asian admixture by Kurdish standards.

I too have been curious where some of my immediate family members have gotten their E Asian looks from .

Kurd
08-13-2016, 10:56 PM
To establish some sort of a baseline. I compared Han against a variety of samples using Kurd C2 (Iraq). The table is sorted with the samples that share longer drift paths with Kurd C2 than Han on top. The ones that share shorter drift paths than Han are -ve. E Asians are highlighted yellow. Kalash and Baloch are not surprising since they are quite similar to Kurds. Also Papuans, Australians and Onge on the bottom are also not surprising because they split off the human tree a long time ago and thus share shorter paths with Kurd C2. Also, Papuans and Australians may have Densiovan input further shorten the total drift path.

Immediately, YAKUT stands out as sharing a significantly longer drift path with Kurd C2 than Han. Therefore, it appears that Yakut is likely populations that contributed E Asian genes to Kurds. Subsequent dstats will test this relationship between Kurds and Yakuts.

For those not familiar with Yakuts, they inhabit E Siberia. Here are links to a couple of photos:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/17/12/1b/17121b24bfa75eab6045202545f0654c.jpg

http://www.cam111.com/uploadfile/newsphoto/2011/0612/7943626765.jpg

https://sherrijosbecauseicanworldtour.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/image0014.jpg

Although many of the results are not surprsining, some are. For ex Karitiana higher up the list than MA1, considering that they have had thousands of years of drift post MA1 to push them further, unless of course there has been Kartiana-Kurd or Iranian geneflow post MA1. Eskimo higher up the list is also interesting. Maybe someone else has further insight into this.




POP1
POP2
TARGET
OUT
D
Z
SNPs


Kalash
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0566
17.96
117615


Kotias
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0562
9.07
117576


Balochi
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.051
17.48
117615


Brahui
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.05
16.91
117615


EHG
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0442
8.28
113545


Villabruna
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0441
6.58
103384


WHG
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0431
9.08
117607


Iran_N1
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0325
4.83
88982


AG3
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0208
2.19
34180


Karitiana
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0207
5.11
117615


Yakut
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0154
7.55
117615


MA1
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0129
1.82
83938


Eskimo
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0126
4.52
117615


Sherpa
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0108
2.92
45914


Chukchi
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.009
3.52
117615


Clovis
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0083
1.34
117236


Nganasan
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0062
2.13
117615


Mongola
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0052
2.65
117615


Palliyar
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0035
0.80
45914


Ulchi
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0015
0.79
117615











Dai
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0002
-0.11
117615


Ami
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0018
-0.86
117615


Onge
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.014
-2.78
45914


Australian
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0372
-7.82
117615


Papuan
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0388
-8.90
117615


Yoruba
Han
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.2593
-71.24
117615

Kurd
08-13-2016, 11:09 PM
Here I use 2 outgroups to get an idea where Kurds fall when other samples and groups are used. The ones that share the most drift with Yakut are on top. I you are a Kurd and are lower on the list than you expected, it is possible that you may have E Asian ancestry from some other E Asian pop.



POP1
OUT1
TARGET
OUT2
D
Z
SNPs


Han
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.4362
100.00
118109


Karitiana
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.426
100.00
118109


Kennewick
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.4246
71.07
64605


Clovis
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.4157
84.03
117729


Kharia
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3882
80.62
46011


Onge
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3878
71.02
46011


Palliyar
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3748
76.03
46011


EHG
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3673
76.86
114018


.Bored
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3662
82.91
117647


Scythian_IA
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3652
65.45
106892


.Kurd_SE
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.364
81.32
117602


.Dluffy
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3634
80.50
117431


Tajik
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3633
100.00
118109


.Sein
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3626
82.14
116785


Andronovo
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3611
85.06
117570


.Parasar
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.36
84.24
112428


Kalash
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3591
99.83
118109


Papuan
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3537
82.75
118109


Australian
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3527
78.45
118109


MA1
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.352
60.86
84306


.Hanna
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3512
75.13
117218


.Kurd_C2
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.351
79.42
117615


.Kurd_C3
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3507
82.14
117699


Balochi
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3507
100.00
118109


.Kurd_Ezidi
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.35
80.50
116798


WHG
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3497
80.22
118101


.Kurd_F2
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3495
75.57
117611


.Znertu
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3492
77.44
117288


.Kurd_F5
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3491
76.19
117834


Brahui
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.349
100.00
118109


.Kurd_F8
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3488
77.62
117413


.Halgurd
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.348
73.60
117545


.Kurd_F1
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3477
77.56
117800


AG3
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3472
40.93
34346


Iran_Lori
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.347
98.01
117189


.Kurd_F4
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3468
76.69
117517


Iran_Shirazi
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3466
99.93
117189


.Mfa
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3466
76.97
116101


Switzerland_HG
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3465
65.80
117892


Satsurbila
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3464
57.83
83048


.Kurd_F3
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3464
73.45
117807


Iranian
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3461
98.16
118109


Spanish
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3455
98.70
118109


.Kurd_C1
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3449
73.54
117515


Villabruna
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3449
61.38
103833


.Kurd_F6
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3449
73.75
112484


.Kurd_F7
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3445
74.54
117809

Kurd
08-13-2016, 11:10 PM
.Zara
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3443
73.63
117656


Sardinian
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3439
95.42
118109


Makrani
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3432
100.00
118109


AG2
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.343
22.50
8930


Iran_ChL
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.343
68.86
97050


Iran_LN
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3423
49.21
53573


Kotias
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3418
66.90
118069


GoyetQ116
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3414
54.65
80517


Anatolia_N
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3366
91.34
118048


Iranian_Bandari
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3344
98.05
117189


Syrian
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3303
92.60
118109


Saudi
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3296
90.87
118109


Iran_Hotu
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3273
25.18
14933


Iran_N_WC1
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3269
63.27
73463


Iran_N1
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3179
54.69
89367


Natufian
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3159
43.15
49062


Mota
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.1135
20.39
118085


Mota
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.1135
20.39
118085


Yoruba
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.095
31.61
118109

Kurd
08-13-2016, 11:21 PM
Here I try to quantify how much drift Yakuts share with Kurds. I use a Yazidi Kurd sample here (either N Iraq or Turkey). The area shaded green shows that Kurd Ezidi shares more drift with Yakuts than with POP1 samples. Now this is surprising that a Kurd shares a longer drift path with E Eurasian Yakuts than with geographically more proximate W Eurasian Yemenis.

Again, Karitiana requires an explanation.



POP1
POP2
TARGET
OUT
D
Z
SNPs


Yemeni
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
-0.0083
-2.37
116798


Clovis
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
-0.0081
-1.29
116423


Nganasan
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
-0.0081
-3.18
116798


Palliyar
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
-0.0053
-1.13
45679


Eskimo
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
-0.0047
-1.68
116798











Karitiana
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0056
1.35
116798


MA1
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0061
0.86
83365


Natufian
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.025
2.94
48493


Jordanian
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0261
8.01
116798


BedouinB
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0261
7.60
116798


Syrian
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0297
8.88
116798


Saudi
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0321
9.15
116798


Balochi
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0373
13.17
116798


Kalash
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.042
12.68
116798


Scythian_IA
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.043
7.06
105735


Spanish
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0505
16.55
116798


Sardinian
Yakut
.Kurd_Ezidi
Chimp
0.0552
17.29
116798

Kurd
08-13-2016, 11:29 PM
We get the same pattern with Kurd C2 as above. Kurd C2 shares a longer drift path (genetic similarity) with Yakut than all the samples in the green shaded area. Interestingly, Kurd C2 has the longest drift path with Scythian IA vs Yakuts than all the other table samples, so Scythians, or other Turkic groups are the likely candidates that have inferred Yakut ancestry to Kurds




POP1
POP2
TARGET
OUT
D
Z
SNPs


Yoruba
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.2705
-73.75
117615


Somali
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.1392
-38.99
117615


Ust_Ishim
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0469
-8.37
117396


Han
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0154
-7.50
117615


Palliyar
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0103
-2.20
45914


Nganasan
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0095
-3.63
117615


Clovis
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0066
-1.06
117236


Chukchi
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0064
-2.50
117615


Yemeni
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.006
-1.68
117615


Eskimo
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
-0.0027
-0.97
117615











MA1
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0004
0.05
83938


Karitiana
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0057
1.34
117615


Natufian
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0076
0.92
48830


Jordanian
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.028
8.06
117615


BedouinB
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0281
7.99
117615


Syrian
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0296
8.48
117615


EHG
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0311
5.86
113545


Saudi
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.033
8.80
117615


Balochi
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0375
12.56
117615


Kalash
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.043
13.25
117615


Scythian_IA
Yakut
.Kurd_C2
Chimp
0.0481
7.16
106449

khanabadoshi
08-13-2016, 11:54 PM
Really interesting topic. I've noticed some Baloch with E Asian looks as well.

Kurd
08-14-2016, 12:09 AM
Really interesting topic. I've noticed some Baloch with E Asian looks as well.

Sorry, I meant to include you and forgot. I'll add you and a couple of other active members (DMXX McNinja and Kenji). I am limited to about 35 samples per run.

Magnetic
08-14-2016, 12:11 AM
you forgot me too . I have higher than average east asian for Kurds

Kurd
08-14-2016, 12:19 AM
you forgot me too . I have higher than average east asian for Kurds

I don't have your DNA sample

khanabadoshi
08-14-2016, 12:19 AM
Sorry, I meant to include you and forgot. I'll add you and a couple of other active members (DMXX McNinja and Kenji). I am limited to about 35 samples per run.

My mtDNA is evidently a Yakut line, so I suspect I may get some interesting stats. However, no need to add if there are constraints -- this is concentrating on Kurds after all!

Kurd
08-14-2016, 12:25 AM
My mtDNA is evidently a Yakut line, so I suspect I may get some interesting stats. However, no need to add if there are constraints -- this is concentrating on Kurds after all!

Na sayyiin...aa kiven thi sakda jo teyn varge mehnti bande ko shamil na karan. Kal tei ko run vich pe saan inshalla :)

khanabadoshi
08-14-2016, 12:38 AM
Na sayyiin...aa kiven thi sakda jo teyn varge mehnti bande ko shamil na karan. Kal tei ko run vich pe saan inshalla :)

Hahah. Bahoun shukria!

Dr_McNinja
08-14-2016, 01:50 AM
This is interesting! I always wondered whether the East Asian present in NW India/N Pakistan is more related to Han/Dai like Northern/Northeastern India (Bangladesh area) or more Siberian/Arctic related. Especially since I got more of it than both parents.

DMXX
08-14-2016, 12:56 PM
The Scythians probably can be implicated as a donor population for this Yakut affinity for West Asians.

Though the term was loosely applied in antiquity, the Scythian_IA sample confirms there was some East Eurasian gene flow present in the PC steppes shortly before Greek historians noted the movement of the Cimmerians and their Scythian chasers deep into West Asia from the north.

The Scytho-Siberians and other such groups who resided east of the Urals (f.ex. Arimaspians) most probably didn't trek anywhere near West Asia, so the most realistic sources for steppe-related East Eurasian admixture in West Asia which isn't Turkish* has to lie further west.

The situation is somewhat different for South-Central Asians, as we have historical evidence of movements from the steppes east of the Urals (Yuezhi/Kushans, Hephthalites).

Yakuts make perfect sense given their actual origins in the eastern throngs of the steppes (their ancestors migrated deeper into Siberia later on). Nice to see that confirmed!

* Some of the East Eurasian admixture in modern non-Turkic speaking West Asians simply has to be Turkish in origin given their presence in the region for 1.2k years, the documented thousands of Turkoman who migrated in that period, and the numerous interactions that took place thereafter.

Kurd
08-14-2016, 03:08 PM
The Scythians probably can be implicated as a donor population for this Yakut affinity for West Asians.

Though the term was loosely applied in antiquity, the Scythian_IA sample confirms there was some East Eurasian gene flow present in the PC steppes shortly before Greek historians noted the movement of the Cimmerians and their Scythian chasers deep into West Asia from the north.

The Scytho-Siberians and other such groups who resided east of the Urals (f.ex. Arimaspians) most probably didn't trek anywhere near West Asia, so the most realistic sources for steppe-related East Eurasian admixture in West Asia which isn't Turkish* has to lie further west.

The situation is somewhat different for South-Central Asians, as we have historical evidence of movements from the steppes east of the Urals (Yuezhi/Kushans, Hephthalites).

Yakuts make perfect sense given their actual origins in the eastern throngs of the steppes (their ancestors migrated deeper into Siberia later on). Nice to see that confirmed!

* Some of the East Eurasian admixture in modern non-Turkic speaking West Asians simply has to be Turkish in origin given their presence in the region for 1.2k years, the documented thousands of Turkoman who migrated in that period, and the numerous interactions that took place thereafter.

Thanks, a nice synopsis by someone more versed on the history of Turkic tribes than myself.

Also, apparently there is other non Yakut geneflow into some S and W Asian individuals. Perhaps it is Nganasan or related to some other E Asians from the China area. I will look into it later. This I suspect, because I don't think the Yakut shared drift accounts for all the E Asian admixture in for example you McNinja and Khana. I feel this way because I have seen your E Asian scores in admixture runs.

I went back and added 12 additional members (non-Kurd) who had indicated that they wanted to be added to these Dstat runs, and some I added because I remembered that they regularly participate in some of my threads. I apologize in advance if I missed a regular.

I will post the EHG, Natufian, Villabruna, AG3 runs later today.

Here is what we have. D scores are directly comparable with the ones posted in the opening post, but Z scores are not because of slightly different marker overlaps.



POP1
OUT1
TARGET
OUT2
D
Z
SNPs


.Sapporo
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3637
85.04
116177


.Melif
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3617
84.13
117714


.Varun
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.361
80.66
117035


.Bol_Nat
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.361
77.53
115920


.Rukha
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3604
79.01
117513


.Khana
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3589
79.71
117466


.McNinja
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3586
81.11
116761


.Kaido
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3543
81.04
117490


.NK19191
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3474
75.26
117197


.DMXX
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3468
76.98
112421


.Humanist
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3415
76.07
117548


.Zephyrous
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3411
73.46
117255


.Iranian567
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3398
73.08
117453

Dr_McNinja
08-14-2016, 03:51 PM
Hm, why do you think Onge rank so highly in shared drift with Yakut?

Kurd
08-14-2016, 04:00 PM
Hm, why do you think Onge rank so highly in shared drift with Yakut?


Because they are both almost exclusively ENA with practically no basal eurasian. So I think it is old shared drift from OOA till Onge split off the tree. Papuans who are also higher up the list would be even higher up if it wasn't for Denisovan into Papuans reducing the length of the shared drift path

kenji.aryan
08-14-2016, 04:13 PM
@Kurd Can you add me too bro?

Kurd
08-14-2016, 06:53 PM
@Kurd Can you add me too bro?

Ok, I'm having problems with one of my programs. It may not be till tomorrow

Kurd
08-14-2016, 09:35 PM
Ok, I'm having problems with one of my programs. It may not be till tomorrow

It may be a couple of days. I may have to recomplie. Some of my executibles got messed up when I updated software. Got to love open source software....

Kurd
08-15-2016, 12:16 PM
Here is you and Reza



POP1
OUT1
TARGET
OUT2
D
Z
SNPs


.Reza1
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3747
86.96
117054


.Kenji
Mbuti.DG
Yakut
Chimp
0.3631
85.50
117359