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lgmayka
08-14-2016, 11:23 PM
All these men have 100% south/southeast Polish ancestry. (They are not fully independent examples--they are somewhat related to each other.) Please keep in mind that the "North Slavic" category used by DNA.Land is actually Baltic and East Slavic, with absolutely no West Slavic samples at all. Also note that "Balkan" includes Bulgarians, who obviously have a Slavic component.

- 68% North Slavic, 31% Balkan, 1.2% Northwest European

- 78% North Slavic, 11% Mediterranean Islander, 5.5% South/Central European, 3.3% Northwest European, 1.8% Sardinian

- 50% North Slavic, 7.4% Finnish, 40% Balkan, 3.2% Northwest European

- 76% North Slavic, 17% Balkan, 5% Northwest European, 1.2% Ambiguous West Eurasian (!)

Shaikorth
08-14-2016, 11:42 PM
Over at Molgen I've seen a 83% EE 14% Finland 3% Mediterranean Ukrainian MyOrigins result translate into 82% North Slavic 18% Balkan DNAland result.

Tomenable
08-15-2016, 01:31 AM
Very interesting. It seems that there are some regional and/or individual differences in DNA.Land when it comes to Poles.

I have results for 5 more Poles (who posted their results on Biodiversity and here on Anthrogenica). At first, these two:

1) - 63% North Slavic, 2.9% Finnish, 33% North/Central European, 1.2% Ambiguous
2) - 64% North Slavic, 2.1% Finnish, 32% North/Central European, 2.1% Ambiguous

Person 1) claims to be "100% Polish", but didn't write from which region. Person 2) claims to be "100% Kashubian Polish".

Now two other Poles (one of them IIRC is from Mazovia, close to Płock - the other one did not write from which region):

3) - 72% North Slavic, 22% Northwest Euro, 3.6% Southwestern Euro, 2.5% South/Central Euro
4) - 71% North Slavic, 20% North/Central Euro, 8.1% Italian, 1.3% Ambiguous

And yet another Pole from Biodiversity, he described himself as an East Pole (I don't know if South-East or North-East):

5) - 86% North Slavic, 6.8% Balkan, 4.2% North/Central European, 2.8% Southwestern European

=============================

And - for comparison / for reference - DNA.Land results of one ethnic Belarusian:

6) - 96% North Slavic, 3.9% Northwest European

Shaikorth
08-15-2016, 05:31 AM
Recombination can cause a lot of variation between close relatives as seen in these Russian results.

Father
West Eurasian 99%
North Slavic 86%
Balkan 13%

Ambiguous 1%


Child
North Slavic 97%
Ambiguous West Eurasian 3.1%

The child's maternal uncle
North Slavic 87%
Finnish 5.5%
Italian 3.6%
Southwestern European 2.3%
Ambiguous West Eurasian 1.9%

sgdavies@hotmail.com
08-15-2016, 08:22 AM
My wife is 100% Polish, here are her results on DNA Land.10972

Tomenable
08-15-2016, 08:57 AM
- 50% North Slavic, 7.4% Finnish, 40% Balkan, 3.2% Northwest European

40% Balkan? Maybe Vlach ancestry ??? :

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolonizacja_wołoska

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wołosi_w_Polsce

Or maybe it is reminiscent of South Slavic.

Star93
08-15-2016, 09:50 AM
Are these results from the Gorals?

Michał
08-15-2016, 10:08 AM
All my known ancestors are from Central Poland (mostly SW Mazovia) and here are my results:

North Slavic 83%
Balkan 16%
Northwest European 1.2%

lgmayka
08-15-2016, 02:09 PM
- 68% North Slavic, 31% Balkan, 1.2% Northwest European

- 78% North Slavic, 11% Mediterranean Islander, 5.5% South/Central European, 3.3% Northwest European, 1.8% Sardinian

- 50% North Slavic, 7.4% Finnish, 40% Balkan, 3.2% Northwest European

- 76% North Slavic, 17% Balkan, 5% Northwest European, 1.2% Ambiguous West Eurasian (!)
It is intriguing to compare these men's autosomal results with their corresponding Y-DNA. In the order above:
I-CTS10228* (https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228*/) from Dębica
G-L661* (https://yfull.com/tree/G-L661*/) from Mszana Dolna
R1a-YP5502 (https://yfull.com/tree/R-YP5502/) from Jabłonica
R1b-Y18894 (https://yfull.com/tree/R-Y18894/) from Łącko

lgmayka
08-15-2016, 02:32 PM
40% Balkan? Maybe Vlach ancestry ??? :
...
Or maybe it is reminiscent of South Slavic.
That question is roughly similar to the continuing debate about I-CTS10228 ("I2a-Dinaric"):
- Historical references indicate that West Slavs ("White Croatians") migrated south into the Balkans in the 1st millennium A.D.
- Historical references indicate that Romanians ("Vlachs") migrated northwestward into/along the Carpathians in the Middle Ages.
- Modern Y-DNA testing suggests that I-CTS10228 expanded along with the Slavs, but its geographic origin is unclear.

But I must again emphasize that the "North Slavic" defined by DNA.Land is actually East Slavic--they did not include a single West Slavic sample.

Volat
08-15-2016, 03:21 PM
But I must again emphasize that the "North Slavic" defined by DNA.Land is actually East Slavic--they did not include a single West Slavic sample.

Among eastern Slavs samples for eastern Ukrainians were used. Likely the sample that is available to public which is from Belgorod - the Russian city near north-eastern Ukrainian border. Other Ukrainians , particularly western Ukrainians score a lot of Balkan admixture at DNA.land. If Finns score a lot of northern Slavic then likely Russians of Kargopol sample (HGDP) was used to represent the Russians. Lithuanians and Estonians were in the mix too.

Shaikorth
08-15-2016, 03:29 PM
North Slavic in DNAland is based on references from Human Origins set, so it has Estonians, Lithuanians, Kargopol Russians, Mordovians, Belorussians and Ukrainians. But outside reference samples, only Latvians and Lithuanians tend to score 100%. Finnish sample is based on Finns, and can go to 100% only there. Northwest European is based on Orcadians, English, Icelandic, Norwegians and Scots, outside reference samples Irish can get close to 100%.

Volat
08-15-2016, 03:33 PM
But outside reference samples, only Latvians and Lithuanians tend to score 100%.

I score 96% northern Slavic. My ancestry is from northern Belarus next to Latvian border. Other Belarusians score above 90% too. I haven't seen Lithuanian or Latvian samples at DNA.land. They could score near 100%.

Shaikorth
08-15-2016, 03:46 PM
I score 96% northern Slavic. My ancestry is from northern Belarus next to Latvian border. Other Belarusians score above 90% too. I haven't seen Lithuanian or Latvian samples at DNA.land. They could score near 100%.

Wombatofthenorth said he's seen Latvians with 100% North Slavic. Outside the references it should peak in Latvia and Lithuania because they're the most homogenous related population.

Haven't seen an Estonian or non-Polish West Slavic result. There was a Kazan Tatar and a Komi in the Molgen DNAland thread.

Volat
08-15-2016, 03:55 PM
Wombatofthenorth said he's seen Latvians with 100% North Slavic. Outside the references it should peak in Latvia and Lithuania because they're the most homogenous related population.

Haven't seen an Estonian or non-Polish West Slavic result. There was a Kazan Tatar and a Komi in the Molgen DNAland thread.

Maybe we could wombatofthenorth to post Latvian results from DNA.land. Shaikorth! If you have results for Finns please share them. :)

Shaikorth
08-15-2016, 04:13 PM
Google magicing Finnish dnaland shows up:

http://oi66.tinypic.com/23ra6gj.jpg

Shaikorth
08-16-2016, 11:09 AM
Western Ukrainian:

64% North Slavic
21% Italian
2.3% Ambiguous South European
6.3% Ambiguous West Eurasian
5.7% Ashkenazi

I assume the Ashkenazi is recent, but that aside the result resembles southern Poles? The Italian of DNAland is basically interchangeable with Balkan.

From Forumbiodiversity (thanks to Tomenable for pointing out the thread) an East Finnish result
98% Finnish
1.1% Ambiguous West Eurasian
1.2% Ambiguous

And back to Poles, MyOrigins and DNAland from a fully Polish individual. Also demonstrates how these tools can differ despite similar components.

MyOrigins 95% East Euro 3% Finland & North Siberia 3% Scandinavia (101%!)

DNAland
79% North Slavic
9.1% Sardinian
1.5% Ambigous Southwest European
4.7% Mediterranean Islander
4.6% North/Central European
1.4% Ambiguous West Eurasian

kingjohn
08-16-2016, 12:26 PM
again you might have a point
those components are realy close
here is a woman who her mother russian from perm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perm
and her father bulgarian and macedonian :)

http://piccy.info/view3/9698453/8096619f3d6052003774b7164466f3c2/

regards
adam

and the italian appear probably interchangeble for the balkan ancestery from her father {bulgaria slav macedonia}
she score middle turkic which is very logic probably from her mother side.:)

Shaikorth
08-16-2016, 12:52 PM
The Iron Age Scythian got 14% Mid-Turkic as well, though no East Turkic. There was one Bashkir/Tatar result on Molgen, with about 20% East Turkic and 3% Mid-Turkic.

kingjohn
08-16-2016, 01:11 PM
yes you probably talks about this guy he is bashkir /tatar
he also score indo-iranian :amen:
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,8508.465.html
regards
adam

p.s most ancient you uploaded from central asia
score indus valley , kalash ,middleturkic
but never indo-iranian and if they do 1-2%
meaning indo-iranian elment was rare in central asia during the time of those ancients
but it was present in few ancients i uploaded: late neolithic iranian , chl iran , and kotias :)
and later the indo-iranian elment spread to northen -central asia mingle with turks and was part of the component of bashkir and crimean tatar:)
which also score indo-iranian.

Coldmountains
08-16-2016, 01:28 PM
I think some are over interpreting this results. When I correctly remember it results are on dnaland even significantly different and showing different components if you upload your genetic dna twice or more and the "North Slavic" component is definitely more baltic than slavic here. Proto-Slavs of southwestern Poland and Ukraine were probably not really different from this Poles. Proto-Slavs would surely not score 100% North Slavic in this test. Also Balkan people share much dna with Northern Slavs ( Slavic and pre-Slavic ancestry) so I am not sure how real " the balkan " component is here . Higher Balkan is probably just meaning more southern affinty compared to Balts and most northern Slavs

Volat
08-16-2016, 01:50 PM
Proto-Slavs would surely not score 100% North Slavic in this test.

I don't agree. Modern day Aukshtaitians (central and southern Lithuanians) and Latgalians (south-eastern Latvians) are proxies for what proto-Slavs were. These people would score close to 100% North Slavic in the test.

Little bit
08-16-2016, 01:53 PM
For comparison, here are my Polish mother-in-law's results from DNA.Land, all 8 great grandparents from what is now NW Poland:

10990

Here are her other results:

23andme:
10991

FTDNA:
10992

Ancestry:
10993

Her Gedmatch kits are M061234 and A710305. As for DNA.Land, I don't have a lot of faith in their results at all give how screwed up my results are using my Ancestry raw data. Check out my thread about it:
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?7471-Anyone-with-erroneous-DNA-land-results

Shaikorth
08-16-2016, 01:56 PM
yes you probably talks about this guy he is bashkir /tatar
he also score indo-iranian :amen:
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,8508.465.html
regards
adam

p.s most ancient you uploaded from central asia
score indus valley , kalash ,middleturkic
but never indo-iranian and if they do 1-2%
meaning indo-iranian elment was rare in central asia during the time of those ancients
but it was present in few ancients i uploaded: late neolithic iranian , chl iran , and kotias :)
and later the indo-iranian elment spread to northen -central asia mingle with turks and was part of the component of bashkir and crimean tatar:)
which also score indo-iranian.

Indo-Iranian is based on Balochis and Brahuis who have very high amount of direct ancestry from Iranian Neolithic Farmers, and it's safe to say Scythians did not. It's indeed possible that small amounts of it could have spread into the Volga region with Turkics later.

Coldmountains
08-16-2016, 03:05 PM
I don't agree. Modern day Aukshtaitians (central and southern Lithuanians) and Latgalians (south-eastern Latvians) are proxies for what proto-Slavs were. These people would score close to 100% North Slavic in the test.

I am talking about the first Slavic speaking people. Proto-Proto-Slavs which were still part of the Balto-Slavic continuum were probably living more in the north and were very baltic-like but Slavs emerged later more in the south and the linguistic homeland of Slavs is most likely in central-east Europe. We have no genomes from ancient Slavs and just use modern dna to guess how Proto-Slavs looked genetically so they don't have be to 100% "North Slavic" here and would most likely score lower of it than modern day Balts. Proto-Slavs had a more southern affinity compared to Balts from a genetic point of view because they already absorbed East Germanic, carpathian/thracian/balkanic and other central-east european elements.

Silesian
08-16-2016, 03:10 PM
Southern Poland Silesia/R1b-9219+and have benefit with comparing same calculator with distant relatives/ R1b ancestors, from Steppe.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/29d8f9w.jpg










Yamnaya Culture R1b-L23* http://www.kumbarov.com/ht35/aDNA_02_11_30_2015.png

Yamnaya culture, sample I0443 (Lopatino II, Sok River):

12% "Indus Valley" and ~6% "Kalash":

https://s10.postimg.org/7cru39ofd/Yamna_I0443.png

R1b-L754+


I0122 genome from Khvalynsk culture:

https://dna.land




:

Khvalynsk culture from the Volga Region, sample I0122:

"Ancestry Report" from DNA.Land:

https://s10.postimg.org/ck84j9wyh/Khvalynsk_sample_I0122.png

https://s10.postimg.org/ck84j9wyh/Khvalynsk_sample_I0122.png

Mis
08-16-2016, 03:47 PM
wunderbar

Volat
08-16-2016, 04:03 PM
I am talking about the first Slavic speaking people. Proto-Proto-Slavs which were still part of the Balto-Slavic continuum were probably living more in the north and were very baltic-like but Slavs emerged later more in the south and the linguistic homeland of Slavs is most likely in central-east Europe. We have no genomes from ancient Slavs and just use modern dna to guess how Proto-Slavs looked genetically so they don't have be to 100% "North Slavic" here and would most likely score lower of it than modern day Balts. Proto-Slavs had a more southern affinity compared to Balts from a genetic point of view because they already absorbed East Germanic, carpathian/thracian/balkanic and other central-east european elements.


The emergence of proto-Slavs have to be in the vicinity of the Balts. It has to be. Balts's settlement was in modern day Lithuania, south-western Latvia, western Russia, Belarus, north-eastern Poland, Kalinigrad region (eastern Prussia).

In the proximity of this region proto-Slavs appeared. Since Slavic languages have more ancient Iranic loan-words than Baltic, I would assume the birthplace of Slavs was in right bank of middle Dniepr river and western Ukraine.


Baltic hydronyms from a linguistic study.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9-DFhfz1jUs/Unq3NwdmRGI/AAAAAAAAAGA/7gRv8ZrmlK4/s1600/kalba-zemel.jpg

George
08-16-2016, 04:34 PM
The emergence of proto-Slavs have to be in the vicinity of the Balts. It has to be. Balts settlement is in modern day Lithuania, south-western Latvia, western Russia, Belarus, north-eastern Poland, Kalinigrad region (eastern Prussia).

In the proximity of this region proto-Slavs appeared. Since Slavs have more ancient Iranic loan-words than Balts, I would assume the birthplace of Slavs is in right bank of middle Dniepr and western Ukraine.


Baltic hydronyms from a linguistic study.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9-DFhfz1jUs/Unq3NwdmRGI/AAAAAAAAAGA/7gRv8ZrmlK4/s1600/kalba-zemel.jpg

It is quite interesting BTW that the quadrilateral area Pinsk-Rivne-Zhytomyr-Kyjiv on this map (roughly the area SOUTH of the Prypjat' (Pripet) is absolutely loaded with Baltic and Archaic Slavic (AS) hydronyms. Inextricably mixed. There are no AS hydronyms NORTH of the Pripet afaik. Nor afaik in the large area immediately SW of this map until one gets very close to the Carpathians. The quadrilateral I mentioned was in Herodotus' time coinhabited by the southernmost "Neuri" and a group of "agricultural Scythians" (archaeologically distinct) both subject to the Auchata Scythians. Then came the Bastarnian invasion.

Silesian
08-16-2016, 05:03 PM
wunderbar

Hi Mis, what we really need are calculators using only R1b samples. Although we may not have enough R1b samples at this time. Perhaps someday with all the new ancient samples coming online, there will be an exclusive R1b calculator for R1b in Europeans/East and West-using only ancient R1b samples. That may help clear up a lot of confusion over ancestry; by avoiding the temptation to mix/tweek different ydna lines with similar audna-to achieve synthetic data.
Side point, have you noticed where S.M. placed R1b-9219* Y5592* in project. Sweden,unknown,Germany, Switzerland?
R-CTS1450CTS1450 * CTS9219 * Y5594+5 SNPsformed 4800 ybp, TMRCA 4800 ybpinfo
More or less the same age as +/-
R-Z94Z95/F3568 * Z94/F3105/S340formed 4700 ybp, TMRCA 4700 ybpinfo
R-Z283Z283/S339/PF6217 * Z662/CTS11197/PF6225formed 5000 ybp, TMRCA 5000 ybpinfo

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS1450/

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b-basal-subclades/dna-results

Mis
08-16-2016, 06:38 PM
Is it argues that CT9219 from the west?

Silesian
08-16-2016, 07:28 PM
Is it argues that CT9219 from the west?

Possible. We can only speculate without any more ancient data. it might be that from the Poltavka samples and snp's thereafter R1b-9219+/- was spread over quite a large territory, perhaps all the way to Germany-Sweden-Switzeerland?. Near the same time frame as Poltavka+/-

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2cpuf4m.jpg

Modern dayPoltavka descendants R1b-KMS-75 live in the heart of what was once considered ancient Sintashta fortified settlements. Who had fierce reputation with fortified walls/moats, chariots and choice of tactical weapons.
http://oi63.tinypic.com/2ur036f.jpg
Sintashta-R1a-93
http://oi66.tinypic.com/xmpiko.jpg

R1b-9219+ area/distance from Poland>East
http://oi63.tinypic.com/pt4dg.jpg

Silesian
08-16-2016, 07:30 PM
As for DNA.Land, I don't have a lot of faith in their results at all give how screwed up my results are using my Ancestry raw data. Check out my thread about it:
Eurogenes some of the best calculators.

Little bit
08-16-2016, 08:34 PM
Both Eurogenes and MDLP work very well for my mother-in-law, both give her Polish as #1 in 4 pop oracle for newest admixture test. MDLP gives me North European (pretty general) with my 23andme raw data, Welsh #2. Using my Ancestry raw data, I get English #1 and North European as #2. Meanwhile, Eurogenes gives me English as #1 with both sets of raw data. I guess I can't technically complain about any of the results but they stand in stark conflict with my confounding Ancestry raw data DNA.Land results which gives me 7.1% SSA, 1.3% NA, 5.4% Mid Turkic, and 2.4% Gujarati, etc. Really bad results by them and they offer no explanation other than sometimes it happens. It shouldn't.

kingjohn
08-17-2016, 10:31 AM
dear little bit,
try uploading the 23and me raw data
or ftdna raw data
i think you will get more logical results than ancestery by dna raw data
for some unknown reason dna land have problems with ancestery raw data :\
regards
adam

Tomenable
08-29-2016, 05:51 AM
DNA Land Ancestry Reports for:

1) RISE598 (Late Bronze Age man from Turlojiškė near Lithuanian-Polish border):

https://s13.postimg.io/c92zebbo7/RISE598_Lithuania_Bronze_Age.png

2) RISE145 (Bronze Age woman of Unetice culture, from Polwica in West Poland):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polwica,_Greater_Poland_Voivodeship

https://s11.postimg.io/m8zkp3dmr/RISE145.png

Tomenable
08-29-2016, 08:21 AM
3) RISE139 (Bronze Age sample from Chociwel in Western Pomerania), Unetice culture:

https://s18.postimg.io/3q6bxiovd/RISE139.png

Tomenable
08-29-2016, 10:11 AM
4) RISE1 - Corded Ware culture man from Obłaczkowo (Greater Poland Voivodeship):

https://s16.postimg.io/ppg1nod1h/RISE1.jpg

Volat
08-29-2016, 11:23 AM
4) RISE1 - Corded Ware culture man from Obłaczkowo (Greater Poland Voivodeship):

https://s16.postimg.io/ppg1nod1h/RISE1.jpg
This profile is similar to many modern day western and eastern Slavs Slavs except for Sardinian which is usually Balkan or Mediterranean.

Tomenable
09-15-2016, 07:44 PM
My results (I'm native to Greater Poland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Poland)):

North Slavic 55%
Northwest European 36%
South European 9,5%:
a) Balkan 8,2%
b) South/Central Euro 1,3%

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11649

kingjohn
09-15-2016, 08:47 PM
you also score some balkan
like other slavs cool ...... :)
you got huge amount of northwest european
regards
Adam

wombatofthenorth
09-15-2016, 10:46 PM
Maybe we could wombatofthenorth to post Latvian results from DNA.land. Shaikorth! If you have results for Finns please share them. :)

My dad who actually tends to score less Eastern European or hunter-gatherer than many Latvians gets this on DNA.LAND:
92% North Slavic
2.1% Ambiguous Northeast European (probably this should be Finnish as we seemed to have confirmed he must have some family tree relevant Finnish ancestor)
5.2% Northwest European
1.2% Ambiguous

Here are some Latvian MyOrigin/Geno 2.0 NG results:
100% Eastern European
98% Eastern European + 2% Finnish and Siberian (on DNA.LAND I think they got 100% North Slavic but I can't remember for sure)
96% Eastern Europe + 2% Finland and Northern Siberia
88% Eastern Europe + 12% Finland and Northern Siberia (on DNA.LAND 92% North Slavic, 2.1% Ambiguous Northeast European, 5.2% Northwest European, 1.2% Ambiguous)
89% Eastern European + 11% Finnish and Siberian (on DNA.LAND they got 100% North Slavic)

interestingly a supposedly 50% Baltic German + 50% Latvian got:
89% Eastern European + 11% Finnish and Siberian (on DNA.LAND they got 100% North Slavic)
(I'm starting to think some Baltic German families actually ended up with lots of Latvian genes mixed in whether from way back when, when it was probably most Latvian women around and not many German or more recently. Some might have even be early free Latvians who ended up being considered Germans and the actual heritage forgotten (or hidden for better job opportunities, status)).

Russian (from what I see small numbers of Russians score like this or with a bit more EE and bit less F&S, but most score less EE and less F&S):
87% Eastern European
10% Finnish and Siberian
3% North East Asian

Regarding DNA.LAND, in one forum with mostly Ukrainians and Russians posting it seemed like Ukranians got 70-80% North Slavic and the rest mostly Balkan. Russians seemed to mostly get a decent bit of North Slavic (75-84%) and then a bunch of little bits of various other stuff (oddly virtually none got the typical Northeast Asian/Yakkut/East Asian type stuff they usually get in trace amounts everywhere else) and then a few got huge amounts of North Slavic, say 96% with the rest called Ambiguous.

wombatofthenorth
09-15-2016, 10:49 PM
I don't agree. Modern day Aukshtaitians (central and southern Lithuanians) and Latgalians (south-eastern Latvians) are proxies for what proto-Slavs were. These people would score close to 100% North Slavic in the test.

huh? but they are not even Slavic

Now the Indo-European Steppe herder types who spread those languages out, the Baltic and Slavic group were attached for a bit before Baltic group split out, but when they spread out they just mixed over various groups already in various regions. And then the Baltic areas and Slavic speaking areas were well separated for a long time. Slavic tribes eventually moved up and displaced and mixed heavily with the far eastern Baltic regions (which once went way into what is now Russia) so they picked up lots of Baltic genes.

I think these Eastern European and North 'Slavic' components these tests have are more picking up on ancient hunter-gatherer genes and a bit less on the Indo-European horse genes for this region and that in the end they key in on Baltic the most.

Volat
09-16-2016, 12:50 AM
huh? but they are not even Slavic

I didn’t say they are . Slavic and Baltic are meta-ethnicities based on modern day languages stemmed from common parent language. I was talking about a large part of common ancestry Slavs and Balts share in the context of genetics.




Now the Indo-European Steppe herder types who spread those languages out, the Baltic and Slavic group were attached for a bit before Baltic group split out, but when they spread out they just mixed over various groups already in various regions. And then the Baltic areas and Slavic speaking areas were well separated for a long time. Slavic tribes eventually moved up and displaced and mixed heavily with the far eastern Baltic regions (which once went way into what is now Russia) so they picked up lots of Baltic genes.

I think these Eastern European and North 'Slavic' components these tests have are more picking up on ancient hunter-gatherer genes and a bit less on the Indo-European horse genes for this region and that in the end they key in on Baltic the most.

When earliest Indo-European languages spread out, there were no Slavic or Baltic languages 'sticking to each other for a bit'. There was an early Indo-European language or early Indo-European dialects. One of the languages derived from early indo-european was developed into common ancestral language to Slavic and Baltic languages, commonly known as Balto-Slavic or proto-Balto-Slavic language in literature.
Common ancestors of Balts and Slavs lived in eastern Europe. Earliest Slavs lived just south Pripyat' river and northern Carpathians, while north of Pripyat and east of western Bug rivers lived the Balts. Geographically, they were close to each other. Slavic migrations in the Balkans, west towards present day eastern Germany and north-east in what's today Russian displacing some Finno-Ugric peoples began much later after the split of Balts and Slavs.


Chart from Anthony and Ringe study published last year.


https://s11.postimg.org/4etig5kr7/anthony_archaeological_perspective_indo_european.p ng

leonardo
09-16-2016, 01:25 AM
Eurogenes some of the best calculators.

My favorite, especially the EU test.

wombatofthenorth
09-16-2016, 03:35 AM
I didn’t say they are . Slavic and Baltic are meta-ethnicities based on modern day languages stemmed from common parent language. I was talking about a large part of common ancestry Slavs and Balts share in the context of genetics.



When earliest Indo-European languages spread out, there were no Slavic or Baltic languages 'sticking to each other for a bit'. There was an early Indo-European language or early Indo-European dialects. One of the languages derived from early indo-european was developed into common ancestral language to Slavic and Baltic languages, commonly known as Balto-Slavic or proto-Balto-Slavic language in literature.
Common ancestors of Balts and Slavs lived in eastern Europe. Earliest Slavs lived just south Pripyat' river and northern Carpathians, while north of Pripyat and east of western Bug rivers lived the Balts. Geographically, they were close to each other. Slavic migrations in the Balkans, west towards present day eastern Germany and north-east in what's today Russian displacing some Finno-Ugric peoples began much later after the split of Balts and Slavs.


Chart from Anthony and Ringe study published last year.


https://s11.postimg.org/4etig5kr7/anthony_archaeological_perspective_indo_european.p ng

You are acting like the Steppe people are 100% of the genes across the region.

Volat
09-16-2016, 03:47 AM
You are acting like the Steppe people are 100% of the genes across the region.

"Steppe people are 100% of the genes across the region"? I don't understand this sentence.

Tomenable
09-16-2016, 05:07 PM
you also score some balkan
like other slavs cool ...... :)
you got huge amount of northwest european
regards
Adam

My results are very similar to RISE139 and RISE145 from Bronze Age Poland (Unetice culture).

==========

Edit:

And my result with GEDmatch Archaic DNA matches (segments >1.0 cM & 100 SNPs):

I am most similar to BR2 from Bronze Age Hungary (Kyjatice culture, ca. 1270-1110 BC):

https://s15.postimg.io/wvrbr7de1/Matches_GEDmatch.png

kingjohn
09-17-2016, 02:33 PM
there is a lot of variation in the northwest european component
it is probably higher in western poland close to germany
as davidski himself score 10% north west european much lower than you
but his north slavic is much higher
i guess his roots in eastern poland he also score balkan like you .
from biodiversity forum :
I'm 80% North Slavic, 10% Balkan and 10% North/Central Euro.

Balkan. Bahaha. :)
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/45582-Post-your-updated-DNALand-results!/page7 {middle of the page }

regards
adam

wombatofthenorth
10-12-2016, 01:56 AM
My dad who actually tends to score less Eastern European or hunter-gatherer than many Latvians gets this on DNA.LAND:
"I'm starting to think some Baltic German families actually ended up with lots of Latvian genes mixed in whether from way back when, when it was probably most Latvian women around and not many German or more recently. Some might have even be early free Latvians who ended up being considered Germans and the actual heritage forgotten (or hidden for better job opportunities, status))."


Actually I'm finding some evidence this is the case. My mom's 25% Baltic German side, after more tracing, now seems to be down to 12.5% German origin at best, and it looks like even just 8% might be possible.

Also, we've now seen that early free Latvians got listed in the Germans only books (at first with notes as to their free Latvian origin) but later they are just thought of as Germans so many might not even realize that some of their Germanic origin lines might, even just in recent family tree times, not be entirely so or even at all.

Tomenable
10-13-2016, 12:46 PM
Volat and wombatofthenorth,

Ancient genome RISE598 (Late Bronze Age Turlojiškė) scores 100% North Slavic in DNA Land:

https://s21.postimg.org/iaa9n28yv/RISE598.png

He lived around 908 - 485 BC, close to the present-day Lithuanian-Polish border (map below):

https://s21.postimg.org/hwa9s58fb/Turlojiske.png

Tomenable
03-04-2017, 03:24 PM
DNA Land "Ancestry Report" results for 16 ethnic Poles.

Only two components are present universally in all 16:

"North Slavic" amounts to between 86% and 50%
"North-Western Euro" ranges from 36% to 1,2%

"Finnish" is present in 3 people (2,1%; 2,9% and 7,4%)

14 of 16 have various southern components, including:

"South-Western Euro" from 1,5% to 11% in 4 people
"Balkan" ranges from 6,8% to 40% in 8 people
"South-Central Euro" is 1,3% up to 8,1% in 4 people
"Med. Islander" is 4,7% up to 11% in 3 people
"Sardinian" amounts to 1,8% up to 9,1% in 3 people

6 people score "Ambiguous" (between 1,2% and 2,1%)

https://i.imgur.com/tDt6At6.png

Tomenable
03-23-2017, 11:22 AM
The most "North Slavic" Pole out of those 16 has ancestry from areas "A" & "B":

So he has ancestry from what is today Northern Belarus and Southern Latvia:

http://i.imgur.com/luLrkpU.png

He has N1c haplogroup and he scores 86% "North Slavic" in DNA Land:

http://i.imgur.com/ToizhzM.png

Polish-Latvian border dispute 1919-1939:

https://latvianhistory.com/2014/09/10/latvian-polish-border-dispute-1919-1939/

kingjohn
03-23-2017, 02:34 PM
and even he score some balkan
regards
adam

singingfalls
06-18-2017, 03:15 PM
North Slavic 79%, Southwestern European 11%, Northwest European 4.6%, Ambiguous 1.4% Y-haplogroup I2a1b (I-A7658 subclade) and mtDNA T1a1b. Vast majority of my ancestors are from Southern Poland. Adamówka/Luchow Górny are geographical areas with a very high concentration of relatives.

stealth
08-22-2017, 07:20 AM
Western Ukrainian/ Southern Pole

18242 18243

singingfalls
08-22-2017, 05:18 PM
Latest update. After a trip to southern Poland this summer I met hundreds of blood relatives. One cousin was a tax accountant and another a former mayor of a city. Both deeply in genealogy. I have an estimated family and extended family of 1500 people in southern Poland. The two cousins that have been tested are 90-97% eastern European according to FTDNA.

Bobby Martnen
09-24-2017, 11:54 PM
North Slavic in DNAland is based on references from Human Origins set, so it has Estonians, Lithuanians, Kargopol Russians, Mordovians, Belorussians and Ukrainians. But outside reference samples, only Latvians and Lithuanians tend to score 100%. Finnish sample is based on Finns, and can go to 100% only there. Northwest European is based on Orcadians, English, Icelandic, Norwegians and Scots, outside reference samples Irish can get close to 100%.

What do west German results typically look like?

michal3141
10-10-2017, 02:09 PM
My results (based on AncestryDNA raw data):

North Slavic: 71%
Balkan: 19%
Northwest European: 10%

Xtian
11-06-2017, 03:25 PM
I am russian from Krasnodar Krai

I get North Slavic: 77%
Balkan: 22%


I dont really understand this report- I have mordvin ancestry and Mordvins are not Slavic.
Also I have no known Balkan ancestry. But they I saw your Balkan score and I presume its just something in most Slavs.

On Gedmatch k13 I have a high West Asian score (14), this isnt reflected at all.

wombatofthenorth
11-14-2017, 04:10 AM
I am russian from Krasnodar Krai

I get North Slavic: 77%
Balkan: 22%


I dont really understand this report- I have mordvin ancestry and Mordvins are not Slavic.
Also I have no known Balkan ancestry. But they I saw your Balkan score and I presume its just something in most Slavs.

On Gedmatch k13 I have a high West Asian score (14), this isnt reflected at all.

Baltic people are not Slavic either and some score 100% North Slavic on this test. It's just a terrible name for a legit category that they refuse to change.

Tomenable
12-12-2017, 11:20 AM
Ethnic Russian from Vyatka / Kirov:

https://image.ibb.co/g0OmCw/image.jpg