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View Full Version : Is Nordic YDNA Q related to Nordic mtDNA G2?



evon
08-15-2016, 04:24 PM
I have started to wonder if the presence of these two Eurasian lineages in Norway are related to each other in some way, and that they represent a common migration into the Nordic region? I thought it would be interesting to investigate this further, maybe there is enough interest to start a crown funded project for FTDNA testing of several of my Norwegian G2a cousins from 23andme and compare them to my G2a cousins at FTDNA..? The same can be done with YDNA Q matches from 23andme...

JonikW
09-09-2016, 08:55 AM
I've just posted on Q aDNA from Norway on the Ancient DNA in the News forum.

PgmNr 1147: Y-chromosomal composition of mediaeval and contemporary populations in Norway and adjacent Scandinavian countries: Y-STR haplotypes and the rare Y-haplogroup Q.

https://ep70.eventpilot.us/web/page.php?page=IntHtml&project=ASHG16&id=160120939

evon
09-09-2016, 11:12 AM
I've just posted on Q aDNA from Norway on the Ancient DNA in the News forum.

PgmNr 1147: Y-chromosomal composition of mediaeval and contemporary populations in Norway and adjacent Scandinavian countries: Y-STR haplotypes and the rare Y-haplogroup Q.

https://ep70.eventpilot.us/web/page.php?page=IntHtml&project=ASHG16&id=160120939

Did you use a mobile phone to post this? As the page is very limited...Do you know when this will be released?

JonikW
09-09-2016, 02:43 PM
Presentation is October 19 I believe. I hope someone will attend and post here. Sorry I can't tell you more...

JonikW
09-09-2016, 02:49 PM
This is the event
https://ep70.eventpilot.us/web/page.php?page=Session&project=ASHG16&id=2040001

ADW_1981
09-09-2016, 03:28 PM
There was aDNA Q found in the Khvalynsk samples found in Russia. Although I doubt the Scandinavian Q as a direct descendant from that individual, I wonder if they tagged along with the Battle Axe/Corded Ware people during that period. Large numbers of hg Q were found in modern Icelandic populations as well, where as hg N was not to be found. Looking forward to these aDNA results! Don't mean to hijack the thread. :/

evon
09-09-2016, 08:52 PM
There was aDNA Q found in the Khvalynsk samples found in Russia. Although I doubt the Scandinavian Q as a direct descendant from that individual, I wonder if they tagged along with the Battle Axe/Corded Ware people during that period. Large numbers of hg Q were found in modern Icelandic populations as well, where as hg N was not to be found. Looking forward to these aDNA results! Don't mean to hijack the thread. :/

It is actually curious that YDNA N has not to my knowledge been found on Iceland, as we know from history and mtDNA samples that Norse peoples did mix with Saami peoples who today have YDNA N in their genepool. I guess it could be due to selective breeding and a small genepool on Iceland though..?

Kristiina
09-09-2016, 09:36 PM
According a Russian paper from 2015, the age of Q-L804 in Norway and Sweden is c. 8000 years (Константа скорости SNP мутаций Y-хромосомы по данным полного секвенирования). Unexpectedly, in the same paper, the Siberian Q-L330 was given a slightly younger age. However, yfull gives L804 a younger age, and its TMRCA for Q-L330 is the same c. 8000 years.

My presumption is that Q-L804 in Scandinavia is from the Mesolithic period and arrived through the northern part of Fennoscandia.

JonikW
09-09-2016, 09:51 PM
Apologies for going off topic, but Kristina, do you know of any Russian aDNA papers? Admittedly, I'm particularly interested in I1 but also much else. I speak Russian so would appreciate any links

Gravetto-Danubian
09-10-2016, 01:05 AM
Apologies for going off topic, but Kristina, do you know of any Russian aDNA papers? Admittedly, I'm particularly interested in I1 but also much else. I speak Russian so would appreciate any links

Why Russian ?

JonikW
09-10-2016, 07:15 AM
Because Kristina cited some interesting Russian research that I hadn't found so wonder if she knows where I can find more

JonikW
09-10-2016, 07:17 AM
May be some good stuff out there in other languages too of course;)

Gravetto-Danubian
09-10-2016, 07:25 AM
Because Kristina cited some interesting Russian research that I hadn't found so wonder if she knows where I can find more

All the really good labs from Northern Europe plus USA
Haplogroup I1 is very interesting. We need to find out why it underwent such a bottleneck.

Gravetto-Danubian
09-10-2016, 07:28 AM
Delete

JonikW
09-10-2016, 07:32 AM
All the really good labs from Northern Europe plus USA
Haplogroup I1 is very interesting. We need to find out why it underwent such a bottleneck.

I agree with all you said there. And the bottleneck is strange. Do you have any thoughts?

Gravetto-Danubian
09-10-2016, 07:42 AM
I agree with all you said there. And the bottleneck is strange. Do you have any thoughts?

Not sure. But can think of 2 possible but not mutually exclusive scenarios;
1) it just never really expanded too much in the first place,

2) it underwent actual near-extinction . This might be so if it's main habitats were areas whose original hunter-gatherers waned away - like the Balkans (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?97-Genetic-Genealogy-and-Ancient-DNA-in-the-News&p=185466#post185466); or replaced by other lines- eg R1 groups in the Russo-Ukrainian refugium.

We might know a bit more in a couple of Months ;)

JonikW
09-10-2016, 08:45 AM
Not sure. But can think of 2 possible but not mutually exclusive scenarios;
1) it just never really expanded too much in the first place,

2) it underwent actual near-extinction . This might be so if it's main habitats were areas whose original hunter-gatherers waned away - like the Balkans (http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?97-Genetic-Genealogy-and-Ancient-DNA-in-the-News&p=185466#post185466); or replaced by other lines- eg R1 groups in the Russo-Ukrainian refugium.

We might know a bit more in a couple of Months ;)
Fascinating, thanks. Why a couple of months? I'm intrigued. Also, any thoughts on Scandinavian Q? Perhaps introduced one way or another through the Swedish Vikings, Miklagard contacts etc?

Kristiina
09-10-2016, 09:31 AM
You can search articles published in Томский журнал лингвистических и антропологических исследований.
Vladimir Volkov has publishes several articles on genetics: e.g.
Волков В.Г. Генофонд южных селькупов в контексте исторических и археологических данных
Волков В.Г. Древние миграции самодийцев и енисейцев в свете генетических данных
http://independent.academia.edu/VVolkov
I often do not agree with his interpretations and his maps, but the haplogroup frequencies and haplotrees should be correct.

The most exciting thing about Q-L804 is that Q-L804 (or Q-M930) is a sister branch of Q-Z780 i.e. Anzick haplotype! So, this Scandinavian Q-L804 is closer to Anzick yDNA than modern Siberian Q-L330. Vikings were moving around very late. Some Q-L804 naturally spread around with them, but I find these deep roots much more interesting.

JonikW
09-10-2016, 09:36 AM
You can search articles published in “Томский журнал лингвистических и антропологических исследований”.
Vladimir Volkov has publishes several articles on genetics: e.g.
Волков В.Г. Генофонд южных селькупов в контексте исторических и археологических данных
Волков В.Г. Древние миграции самодийцев и енисейцев в свете генетических данных
http://independent.academia.edu/VVolkov
I often do not agree with his interpretations and his maps, but the haplogroup frequencies and haplotrees should be correct.

The most exciting thing about Q-L804 is that Q-L804 (or Q-M930) is a sister branch of Q-Z780 i.e. Anzick haplotype! So, this Scandinavian Q-L804 is closer to Anzick yDNA than modern Siberian Q-L330. Vikings were moving around very late. Some Q-L804 naturally spread around with them, but I find these deep roots much more interesting.

Thanks, will check out that research:)

Kristiina
09-10-2016, 09:40 AM
Then, I see that Vladimir Gurianov is very active and has published really very many articles on yDNA Q:
http://ncfu.academia.edu/VladimirGurianov

JonikW
09-10-2016, 09:46 AM
Then, I see that Vladimir Gurianov is very active and has published really very many articles on yDNA Q:
http://ncfu.academia.edu/VladimirGurianov

I see some are in English too. Thanks again