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rms2
08-17-2016, 07:27 PM
Take a look at the small group of men who have tested FGC35995+ under DF13 thus far in category x19 in the R L21 and Subclades Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/R-L21?iframe=yresults

1. Loncharich kit 142664 - Croatia

2. Wolff kit E14775 - France

3. Hammar (ancestral surname "Nilsson") kit 374008 - Sweden

4. Rhys kit 383456 - Wales

Some will see that last one, Rhys, and think, "Aha, British Isles, there we go!", but Rhys, although tested to 37 markers, has absolutely no matches beyond 12 markers. There we go.

None of these guys is on the FTDNA y-dna match radar of any of the rest of them either. In other words, they don't match each other in terms of STRs.

1. Loncharich, although tested to 67 markers, has no matches better than 33/37, except for an exact one with someone with his surname.

2. Wolff, tested to 111 markers, has NO matches beyond 12 markers, and even the best of his 12-marker "matches" is 11/12.

3. Hammar, tested to 37 markers, has no matches better than 24/25.

4. Rhys I mentioned already: tested to 37 markers, but no matches past 12 markers.

So, this is an interesting little group.

swid
08-17-2016, 07:41 PM
Here's the link to the clade on The Big Tree (http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=782) and on YFull (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y14049/).

Rhys shares an additional two SNPs with a 1kG sample from Mexico.

rms2
08-17-2016, 07:51 PM
Here's the link to the clade on The Big Tree (http://ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=782) and on YFull (https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y14049/).

Rhys shares an additional two SNPs with a 1kG sample from Mexico.

Thanks!

It would be interesting to know more about that 1,000 Genomes sample. That makes FGC35995 an even more far flung group.

rms2
08-17-2016, 08:11 PM
I just emailed Loncharich and Hammar urging them to submit their Big Y data to Alex Williamson for comparison and analysis. I sent them the link to his instructions page. Hopefully, they'll do it.

GoldenHind
08-18-2016, 05:31 PM
AFAIK the 1KG samples are unfortunately anonymous.

From his surname, I would assume Wolff is originally of German origin, perhaps an Alsatian? If so, this is very reminiscent of the sort of distribution found within the DF99 subclade.

Ie's a real head scratcher.

rms2
08-18-2016, 10:49 PM
AFAIK the 1KG samples are unfortunately anonymous.

From his surname, I would assume Wolff is originally of German origin, perhaps an Alsatian? If so, this is very reminiscent of the sort of distribution found within the DF99 subclade.

Ie's a real head scratcher.

In fact, Wolff himself is a German citizen. He doesn't list a place of birth for his mdka, but I think you're probably right.

George Chandler
08-25-2016, 02:33 PM
Hopefully they all decide to get the NGS done. It's like my King surname singleton below DF13 who so far (that I've seen) doesn't have a reliable SNP match since DF13 after testing with FGC.

George

swid
08-25-2016, 07:22 PM
I just emailed Loncharich and Hammar urging them to submit their Big Y data to Alex Williamson for comparison and analysis. I sent them the link to his instructions page. Hopefully, they'll do it.

Hammar is now on the Big Tree; while Alex hasn't done his full analysis yet, currently he's listed in an outgroup with Wolff.

WOLFF éric
09-09-2016, 06:40 PM
Hello,

I´m French citizen and Alsace too ! My origines are certainly from Austria in Middle-Age not Germany,Alsace was part of Habsburg Empire.Perhaps as iberian ashkenaz jews, Spain were by the empire of Charles Quint,they migred in Austria than later in Alsace and while no good traited by the Austrians helped the french troops from Louis 14 becoming free and land as recompense...My families Wolff come from Ernolsheim-Bruche and Benfeld around Strasbourg were the alsatian jews population (sefarades,ashkenazes and karaites) lived...Or can be from the Kabars jews who migrated west with Attila or later from the Khazars.The 2 groups come from the region of the Krim later appeled Khazaria was first inhabited by the Kimmerians for my celtic results who give his name to the Krim can be an other solution...so i don´t know i wait for ancient dna results with Y14240/FGC35995 and Y14049/FGC35996... :angel:

rivergirl
10-02-2016, 05:30 AM
There is a Mr Fehily, who is FGC35995, shows up in matches with several Whelan men, as well as men from the Rich family. A few McCarthys are also predicted to be FGC35995.
Also a Mr Morgan (N116097) is FGC35995+

Mistermizu
05-30-2017, 09:39 PM
Hello. I am new here, and out of my depth I fear! But I came across this thread about FGC35995. I recently showed up in this group in The Big Tree. I am kit #538144 Unknown. Next to Rhys. As my father didn't know his BF, I don't have a paternal ancestral surname confirmed yet (though I believe it could be Roberts). From what DNA matches I do have, I know that my paternal Grandfather must have been Welsh through and through, and the generations before him probably South Wales miners. Of my Big Y matches, my closest is a John Rhys - shared novel variants 32 - known SNP difference 0 - matching SNPs 26,690. I don't think this John Rhys is the same man showing up as Rhys in the Big Tree. My match John Rhys is R-BY9003. In the Y-DNA test he is a match with me only at 12 markers, with a genetic distance of 1. I have tried emailing him, but got no reply.
Can you explain why you described this little group as interesting?!
Any help and guidance welcomed. Many thanks.
Mat.

rms2
05-31-2017, 11:10 AM
I described it as interesting because its members are pretty diverse in their haplotypes and national origin.

BTW, I was in St. Lucia last summer and absolutely loved it.

I would not rely on FTDNA's Big Y Matches thing. They seem to be basing it on the absolute number of shared SNPs rather than on phylogenetically significant SNPs, so you get "matches" outside your own subclade, with different terminal SNPs.

You need to request a link to your BAM file from FTDNA and submit it to YFull for analysis. YFull's services cost $49, but they're worth more than that. Matches at YFull are genuine phylogenetic matches.

Mistermizu
05-31-2017, 11:25 AM
OK, thanks rms2. (& glad you enjoyed St Lucia!). Perhaps my joining that select group has tipped the scales in favour of Wales...?!
BTW is there any way on FTDNA to find out the kit numbers of your matches? That way I could work out if Rhys is my John Rhys or not...

rms2
05-31-2017, 11:36 AM
OK, thanks rms2. (& glad you enjoyed St Lucia!). Perhaps my joining that select group has tipped the scales in favour of Wales...?!
BTW is there any way on FTDNA to find out the kit numbers of your matches? That way I could work out if Rhys is my John Rhys or not...

The best way to find out the kit number is to email the match and ask him. Otherwise, you have to hunt through surname project web sites and try to figure it out. Usually a genuine match is going to have an STR haplotype close to your own, which makes him easier to find on a project web site.

YFull's R1b Tree shows FGC35995 with an estimated tmrca (time to most recent common ancestor) of about 4300 years, so around 2300 BC. That would be the Bell Beaker period, and we know from the recent Olalde et al paper that Bell Beaker is responsible for L21 in Britain. I'm guessing FGC35995 arose among Bell Beaker on the Continent, which is why it has the far flung representation it has.

Here's a neat Bell Beaker video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmHXBXG7Loo

Mistermizu
05-31-2017, 11:51 AM
Thx rms2 for the advice & video link. I will go ahead with YFull. Cheers.

RGM
05-31-2017, 07:51 PM
I would not rely on FTDNA's Big Y Matches thing. They seem to be basing it on the absolute number of shared SNPs rather than on phylogenetically significant SNPs, so you get "matches" outside your own subclade, with different terminal SNPs.

They really need to completely overhaul the Big Y interface. When they are automatically sorting it by shared novel SNPs and known SNP difference, but one of your closest actual matches shares just nine novel SNPs and has a difference of three known SNPs while random matches share 30+ novel SNPs and have zero known differences, the system is so flawed as to be completely worthless.

veganpops
01-26-2018, 11:22 PM
Hello Mat, I received results today from the R1b-L21 Superclade Orientation Panel at yseq.com. My final haplogroup is R1b-BY9003. In The Big Tree, I see you and "Rhys" are the only two members of this haplogroup. I am very new to this. What can you or anyone else tell me about R1b-BY9003? Where can I go from here to learn more about y-DNA in general and exploring my paternal ancestry. My paternal ancestry is from South Wales.

-Stan Thomas

Mikewww
01-27-2018, 01:03 AM
Hello Mat, I received results today from the R1b-L21 Superclade Orientation Panel at yseq.com. My final haplogroup is R1b-BY9003. In The Big Tree, I see you and "Rhys" are the only two members of this haplogroup. I am very new to this. What can you or anyone else tell me about R1b-BY9003? Where can I go from here to learn more about y-DNA in general and exploring my paternal ancestry. My paternal ancestry is from South Wales.

-Stan Thomas

Please look at the Big Tree diagram for this.
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=782&star=false

Unfortunately BY9003 is quite old as you can see from the long list of phylogenetic equivalents that Rhy and the Unknown person have. Of course, Rhys is a Welsh origin surname but the relationship is quite old so I don't know this tells you much.

This is why people test for Big Y. You might have some SNPs shared with this Rhys block. Underneath the Rhys block we see he and Unknown each have 6-8 high quality private SNPs so this is really is ancient relationship at BY9003

WOLFF éric
05-17-2018, 05:48 AM
Hello,

I´m French citizen and Alsace too ! My origines are certainly from Austria in Middle-Age not Germany,Alsace was part of Habsburg Empire.Perhaps as iberian ashkenaz jews, Spain were by the empire of Charles Quint,they migred in Austria than later in Alsace and while no good traited by the Austrians helped the french troops from Louis 14 becoming free and land as recompense...My families Wolff come from Ernolsheim-Bruche and Benfeld around Strasbourg were the alsatian jews population (sefarades,ashkenazes and karaites) lived...Or can be from the Kabars jews who migrated west with Attila or later from the Khazars.The 2 groups come from the region of the Krim later appeled Khazaria was first inhabited by the Kimmerians for my celtic results who give his name to the Krim can be an other solution...so i don´t know i wait for ancient dna results with Y14240/FGC35995 and Y14049/FGC35996... :angel:

I wait but no new results are coming soon...

WOLFF éric
11-29-2018, 09:39 PM
I wait but no new results are coming soon...I´m now updated to FGC35999. B)

rms2
12-01-2018, 09:49 PM
You have to be proactive and push matches to test. Subclades, especially the smaller ones, get fleshed out because somebody sells them to other people.