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rms2
08-22-2016, 06:03 PM
I managed to recruit a descendant of Amos Stevens, born 16 Oct 1778 in Ellicott City, Howard County (then part of Anne Arundel County), Maryland, from Ancestry for y-dna testing, since genealogist Joan Peake, in her report of 23 May 2016, identified Amos as a likely relative and son of Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, who was born probably before 1750 in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. This was an important test, since a match would confirm Joan Peake's research and link me and my group of y-dna matches up to Amos' family and Amos' family up to the other Fayette County, PA, Stevens/Stephens bunch Joan discovered as likely suspects.

Well, today this man's 12-marker test results came in, and he is an exact match for the bunch of us! Thank God!

I know it's only 12 markers, but, given the genealogical context and the surname, it's not likely to be the product of convergence. Woo-hoo!

I'm pretty jazzed about it.

Now I've got to see if we can't come up with the cash for an upgrade to 111 markers for this man.

This is the happiest I have been about anything in quite awhile. :beerchug:

JMcB
08-22-2016, 06:09 PM
I managed to recruit a descendant of Amos Stevens, born 16 Oct 1778 in Ellicott City, Howard County (the part of Anne Arundel County), Maryland, from Ancestry for y-dna testing, since genealogist Joan Peake, in her report of 23 May 2016, identified Amos as a likely relative and son of Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, who was born probably before 1750 in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. This was an important test, since a match would confirm Joan Peake's research and link me and my group of y-dna matches up to Amos' family and Amos' family up to the other Fayette County, PA, Stevens/Stephens bunch Joan discovered as likely suspects.

Well, today this man's 12-marker test results came in, and he is an exact match for the bunch of us! Thank God!

I know it's only 12 markers, but, given the genealogical context and the surname, it's not likely to be the product of convergence. Woo-hoo!

I'm pretty jazzed about it.

Now I've got to see if we can't come up with the cash for an upgrade to 111 markers for this man.

This the happiest I have been about anything in quite awhile. :beerchug:

Congratulations, that's good news! I read your thread awhile back and I'm glad your efforts have born fruit.

rms2
08-22-2016, 06:42 PM
Congratulations, that's good news! I read your thread awhile back and I'm glad your efforts have born fruit.

Thanks!

I was impressed with genealogist Joan Peake before, but now I am doubly impressed. She is the one who ferreted this stuff out, and she really called it.

rms2
08-22-2016, 07:44 PM
This must be my lucky day, because the man just up and ordered an upgrade to 111 markers! Woo-hoo again!

It looks like this man is pretty enthusiastic. Phew! What a relief. This is a real blessing. Not only does he bring in some good info, but he seems to be actually interested, as well. This is a good day.

jdean
08-22-2016, 08:00 PM
I managed to recruit a descendant of Amos Stevens, born 16 Oct 1778 in Ellicott City, Howard County (then part of Anne Arundel County), Maryland, from Ancestry for y-dna testing, since genealogist Joan Peake, in her report of 23 May 2016, identified Amos as a likely relative and son of Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, who was born probably before 1750 in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. This was an important test, since a match would confirm Joan Peake's research and link me and my group of y-dna matches up to Amos' family and Amos' family up to the other Fayette County, PA, Stevens/Stephens bunch Joan discovered as likely suspects.

Well, today this man's 12-marker test results came in, and he is an exact match for the bunch of us! Thank God!

I know it's only 12 markers, but, given the genealogical context and the surname, it's not likely to be the product of convergence. Woo-hoo!

I'm pretty jazzed about it.

Now I've got to see if we can't come up with the cash for an upgrade to 111 markers for this man.

This the happiest I have been about anything in quite awhile. :beerchug:

Bloody marvellous Rich, bet you're chuffed to beans : )

JMcB
08-22-2016, 08:07 PM
This must be my lucky day, because the man just up and ordered an upgrade to 111 markers! Woo-hoo again!

It looks like this man is pretty enthusiastic. Phew! What a relief. This is a real blessing. Not only does he bring in some good info, but he seems to be actually interested, as well. This is a good day.

Looks like he's got the fever like the rest of us. I can certainly understand why, it's a fascinating journey once you start down that road.

rms2
08-22-2016, 08:11 PM
Bloody marvellous Rich, bet you're chuffed to beans : )

Definitely! :beerchug:

MitchellSince1893
08-22-2016, 08:14 PM
Congrats! I know that feeling. I got it when my dad's paternal half-sisters test results finally came out after waiting for 2 years for them.

Few people can relate to why people like us gets so excited about things like this

rms2
08-22-2016, 11:40 PM
This is a quote from the book, A Centennial Biographical History of Crawford County, Ohio, pages 504-507, by James G. Tobias (1902):




Amos H. Stevens was born near Allicott's Mills [Ellicott's Mills], Maryland, on October 16, 1778, and he was a son of Augustus and Sophia (Young) Stevens, these parents being of English and Welsh extraction.


Tobias got Amos' father's name wrong. It was Augustine, not Augustus, as the will of Augustine's brother Samuel makes clear, and also as the fact that Amos named one of his own sons Augustine makes clear.



. . . I give and bequeath unto my wife Nancy my whole Estate real and personal during her natural life - then to descend to my Daughter Priscilla and her heirs forever -. 3dly If my Said daughter should die in her minority or without lawful Issue - then I devise my whole Estate to Augustine Stephens Son of Augustine Stephens - 4thly If said Augustine Stephens should die unmarried and without Issue then I devise the same to his brother Jacob Stephens . . .

BTW, I called it the will of Samuel Stevens because within the will itself the surname appears both as Stevens and Stephens. :biggrin1:

JMcB
08-23-2016, 12:11 AM
This is a quote from the book, A Centennial Biographical History of Crawford County, Ohio, pages 504-507, by James G. Tobias (1902):




Tobias got Amos' father's name wrong. It was Augustine, not Augustus, as the will of Augustine's brother Samuel makes clear, and also as the fact that Amos named one of his own sons Augustine makes clear.



BTW, I called it the will of Samuel Stevens because within the will itself the surname appears both as Stevens and Stephens. :biggrin1:

As coincidence would have it, I live in a little town call Saint Augustine. Not that that means anything but nevertheless. ;-)

rms2
08-23-2016, 12:13 AM
As coincidence would have it, I live in a little town call Saint Augustine. Not that that means anything but nevertheless. ;-)

Great place. Were I to move to Florida, that's where I would want to go.

razyn
08-23-2016, 12:16 AM
Andrew Jackson is alleged to have said, "Damn the man who can only think of one way to spell a word."

And yeah, congratulations. Hope his 111 markers turn out to match you pretty well, too. If you aren't very recently kin, a few variants in the STRs might be a good thing. The other guy is also pretty lucky, to get matched by one of the gurus of his haplogroup.

rms2
08-23-2016, 12:26 AM
Andrew Jackson is alleged to have said, "Damn the man who can only think of one way to spell a word."

And yeah, congratulations. Hope his 111 markers turn out to match you pretty well, too. If you aren't very recently kin, a few variants in the STRs might be a good thing. The other guy is also pretty lucky, to get matched by one of the gurus of his haplogroup.

Speaking of spelling, besides the ph versus v thing, my third great grandfather's name was spelled Auguston, Augustine, and probably other ways, as well. In the 1830 census for Beaver County, PA, he appears as Augustine Stevens right near his father-in-law, Matthew Armstrong, but here's his tombstone:

11130

jdean
08-23-2016, 01:28 AM
AIH My Wife's eldest brother is an Augustus : )

rms2
08-23-2016, 01:43 AM
I have a 106/111 match whose most distant ancestor is Benjamin Stevens, Sr. Here is the tombstone of Benjamin Stevens, Jr. (broken in half), son of Benjamin Stevens, Sr., with Masonic symbols, and the tombstone of my third great grandfather Auguston, also with Masonic symbols.

11131 11132 11133

R.Rocca
08-23-2016, 06:46 PM
This is a longshot, but here goes... FamilySearch.org has the following person: Augustine Young STEVENS, born around 1812 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Not that this could've been your Augustine given the date, but given he has Augustine instead of Augustus, Stevens instead of Stephens and has what looks like a maternal Young surname (since his daughter's last name is STEVENS), I thought perhaps it could be of help. Perhaps its a cousin or something. Also, it could fit the English/Welsh border description of Augustine & Sophia. On the downside, Liverpool is quite a large city and perhaps the Young Stevens surname bit is just a coincidence.

vettor
08-23-2016, 07:30 PM
Speaking of spelling, besides the ph versus v thing, my third great grandfather's name was spelled Auguston, Augustine, and probably other ways, as well. In the 1830 census for Beaver County, PA, he appears as Augustine Stevens right near his father-in-law, Matthew Armstrong, but here's his tombstone:

11130

Augustine, Auguston, Augustan etc could be a family Christian name , used over and aver from generation to generation by this family

rms2
08-23-2016, 07:55 PM
This is a longshot, but here goes... FamilySearch.org has the following person: Augustine Young STEVENS, born around 1812 in Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Not that this could've been your Augustine given the date, but given he has Augustine instead of Augustus, Stevens instead of Stephens and has what looks like a maternal Young surname (since his daughter's last name is STEVENS), I thought perhaps it could be of help. Perhaps its a cousin or something. Also, it could fit the English/Welsh border description of Augustine & Sophia. On the downside, Liverpool is quite a large city and perhaps the Young Stevens surname bit is just a coincidence.

Definitely could be a relative given that combination of names.

rms2
08-23-2016, 07:57 PM
Augustine, Auguston, Augustan etc could be a family Christian name , used over and aver from generation to generation by this family

That definitely looks like it is the case. It serves as a fair marker for the family, since that name wasn't all that common: not completely unheard of, but not common either.

vettor
08-23-2016, 08:34 PM
I managed to recruit a descendant of Amos Stevens, born 16 Oct 1778 in Ellicott City, Howard County (then part of Anne Arundel County), Maryland, from Ancestry for y-dna testing, since genealogist Joan Peake, in her report of 23 May 2016, identified Amos as a likely relative and son of Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, who was born probably before 1750 in Anne Arundel County, Maryland. This was an important test, since a match would confirm Joan Peake's research and link me and my group of y-dna matches up to Amos' family and Amos' family up to the other Fayette County, PA, Stevens/Stephens bunch Joan discovered as likely suspects.

Well, today this man's 12-marker test results came in, and he is an exact match for the bunch of us! Thank God!

I know it's only 12 markers, but, given the genealogical context and the surname, it's not likely to be the product of convergence. Woo-hoo!

I'm pretty jazzed about it.

Now I've got to see if we can't come up with the cash for an upgrade to 111 markers for this man.

This is the happiest I have been about anything in quite awhile. :beerchug:

Is this the Amos

Harriet Ann Stephens (as Stevens) - Baptism 6 Dec 1818 at Kenwyn Cornwall UK. Category: Document. Description: == https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/ TH-266-11775-55995-90 ... Attached To: Amos H . Stevens (1778-1854) ...

Harriet is daughter of Amos


Amos H. Stevens
Find A Grave Index
Name Amos H. Stevens
Event Type Burial
Event Date 1854
Event Place Sulphur Springs, Crawford, Ohio, United States of America
Photograph Included Y
Birth Date 16 Oct 1778
Death Date 22 Oct 1854
Affiliate Record Identifier 79741973
Cemetery Union Cemetery

................................................


Auguston Stevens
United States Census, 1820
Name Auguston Stevens
Event Type Census
Event Date 1820
Event Place Middleton, Columbiana, Ohio, United States



only you will know your line ...regards

rms2
08-23-2016, 08:51 PM
Is this the Amos

Harriet Ann Stephens (as Stevens) - Baptism 6 Dec 1818 at Kenwyn Cornwall UK. Category: Document. Description: == https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/ TH-266-11775-55995-90 ... Attached To: Amos H . Stevens (1778-1854) ...

Harriet is daughter of Amos


Amos H. Stevens
Find A Grave Index
Name Amos H. Stevens
Event Type Burial
Event Date 1854
Event Place Sulphur Springs, Crawford, Ohio, United States of America
Photograph Included Y
Birth Date 16 Oct 1778
Death Date 22 Oct 1854
Affiliate Record Identifier 79741973
Cemetery Union Cemetery

................................................


Auguston Stevens
United States Census, 1820
Name Auguston Stevens
Event Type Census
Event Date 1820
Event Place Middleton, Columbiana, Ohio, United States



only you will know your line ...regards

That's the right Amos, but he did not have any children in Cornwall. He was a farmer and spent his whole life, after being born in Maryland, in Pennsylvania and Ohio.

The Auguston Stevens in the 1820 census in Columbiana County, Ohio is probably the elder Augustine Stevens. My own Auguston was slightly too young to be the head of a household in 1820 (he turned 16 that year). That's the right general neighborhood though. In the 1830 census my third great grandfather is in Little Beaver Township, Beaver County, Pennsylvania, at 26 years old, with his young wife Sarah Ann and their eldest son Matthew Armstrong Stevens, who was under one year old at the time. Beaver county borders Columbiana county on the east. Amos and his family were over in Columbiana county at the time, but they had lived first in Beaver county in the first decade of the 19th century before moving there. My Auguston had children born in Ohio, as well as Pennsylvania, so apparently they bounced back and forth.

R.Rocca
08-23-2016, 10:39 PM
Definitely could be a relative given that combination of names.

What are the prospects for hiring someone in the UK to try to find Augustine Stevens and Sophia Young?

rms2
08-24-2016, 12:30 PM
What are the prospects for hiring someone in the UK to try to find Augustine Stevens and Sophia Young?

I think my group might be willing to pool its money for that, but the problem right now is that several of us, myself included, have a gap between our known most distant y-dna ancestor and this bunch of Stevens/Stephens Joan Peake uncovered as likely ancestors/relatives. Once that gap is bridged, then I think we would be ready to cross the Atlantic.

For example, I know who my third great grandfather is, but I don't know who his father is. Now we know who his extended family is, but we don't have all the names, and I don't have anything even remotely resembling a smoking gun to pinpoint who his dad is.

rms2
08-24-2016, 01:11 PM
One of my closest matches is a descendant of one of the brothers of Augustine Stevens (husband of Sophia Young), Benjamin Stevens, Sr. (b. 1737).

I think I am probably descended from Augustine and Sophia, because Amos, son of Augustine and Sophia, and some of his brothers went to Beaver County, Pennsylvania, and my own third great grandfather Auguston lived in Beaver County for some time and married there. My second great grandfather James was born in Beaver County in 1835.

I have a lot of work to do chasing the paper trail, but now I am about to start back to work (I'm a teacher) and my life will get super busy again. I'd like to hire a professional genealogist like Joan Peake to pursue this as far as possible, but they're a little too pricey.

rms2
08-25-2016, 07:21 PM
I know that I mentioned above that one of my 106/111 matches is the descendant of Benjamin Stevens, Sr. (1737-1811). Well I recruited another man off of Ancestry for a 12-marker y-dna test, with hopes of a match and an upgrade, and he is likewise a descendant of Benjamin Stevens, Sr., but from a different great grandson of Benjamin. Rather than explain in words, I'll let the graphic below explain. Kit 333340 is the 106/111 match for me. Kit 528124 is the one awaiting 12-marker test results.

11175

Those two should match.

MitchellSince1893
08-25-2016, 07:27 PM
You're on a roll.

rms2
08-26-2016, 12:11 AM
I think I might be the descendant of the brother of Benjamin Stevens, Sr., Augustine "Augustus" Stevens. If so, that would mean kits 333340 and 528124 and I have as our most recent common ancestor our 6th great grandfather, the father of Benjamin and Augustine. That would make us 7th cousins and explain the 106/111 match between me and kit 333340. Family Tree DNA's "Tip" thingy says there is about a 77% chance that 333340 and I share a common ancestor within 8 generations, and that would be our 6th great grandfather.

The 111-marker upgrade of the man I mentioned who is a descendant of Augustine Stevens via his son Amos might be helpful in this regard. If I am right, then his 5th great grandfather Augustine ought to be my 5th great grandfather, as well, which would make us 6th cousins. We ought to be a little closer maybe than my other y-dna matches. Time will tell. I'm hoping for a close match at 111.

JMcB
08-26-2016, 12:41 AM
Yes, you are on a roll. I'm looking forward to seeing how his test results come in.

P.S. Welcome back, Saint Lucia looks like a beautiful place to visit.

dp
08-26-2016, 05:14 PM
Seeing the Masonic symbols on the Stephens gravestones hope you won't mind the following photos added to your thread that I took in 2013 in Halifax, NC.
1119111192111931119411195


I have a 106/111 match whose most distant ancestor is Benjamin Stevens, Sr. Here is the tombstone of Benjamin Stevens, Jr. (broken in half), son of Benjamin Stevens, Sr., with Masonic symbols, and the tombstone of my third great grandfather Auguston, also with Masonic symbols.

11131 11132 11133

rms2
08-26-2016, 06:44 PM
Seeing the Masonic symbols on the Stephens gravestones hope you won't mind the following photos added to your thread that I took in 2013 in Halifax, NC.
1119111192111931119411195

Nice photos.

On another subject, I wish I could convince a couple of my Stephens/Stevens matches to do the Big Y. That way, we might come up with a family SNP or a couple of them, but I am the only one to do the Big Y thus far.

Dave-V
08-26-2016, 09:33 PM
Richard, just for your reference, this is what the SAPP tool makes of your Stevens/Stephens subgroup just using the 67 or 111 STR data taken from Mike W's L21 spreadsheet (and not excluding any like CDYa/b etc). I don't know how it matches up to what you have already done to map the STR mutations among your surname group, but if the automation would be useful once you have your new match's 111-marker test I'd be happy to run it through.

The TMRCA estimates here are STR-based (using Ken Nordvedt's modifications on the Bruce Walsh algorithm) with the estimate range from 5%-95% confidence shown in brackets. But to improve its accuracy the tool can take SNP or genealogy data if you want to share any that provides structure to the group. I'm at [email protected] if any of this would help your analysis.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11209&stc=1

rms2
08-26-2016, 10:37 PM
Richard, just for your reference, this is what the SAPP tool makes of your Stevens/Stephens subgroup just using the 67 or 111 STR data taken from Mike W's L21 spreadsheet (and not excluding any like CDYa/b etc). I don't know how it matches up to what you have already done to map the STR mutations among your surname group, but if the automation would be useful once you have your new match's 111-marker test I'd be happy to run it through.

The TMRCA estimates here are STR-based (using Ken Nordvedt's modifications on the Bruce Walsh algorithm) with the estimate range from 5%-95% confidence shown in brackets. But to improve its accuracy the tool can take SNP or genealogy data if you want to share any that provides structure to the group. I'm at [email protected] if any of this would help your analysis.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11209&stc=1

Thanks. I sent you an email.

rms2
08-27-2016, 02:20 PM
Thanks, Dave!

I have been playing around with the SAPP tool, and it is a lot of fun.

rms2
08-27-2016, 08:37 PM
I think maybe God led me into genealogy to teach me patience. I'm not sure it's working, because waiting for results drives me bats. The recent 12-marker result I mentioned from a descendant of Amos Stevens is now awaiting an 111-marker upgrade, as is a 35/37 Stevens match of mine, and there is a descendant of Amos' uncle Benjamin awaiting his initial 12-marker test result. I may have to bite a horseshoe or something to contain myself. That actually sounds like a good idea.

I wish I could order 111 markers and Big Y for my recruits right from the get go, but I don't have the income of Bill Gates, so I have to shepherd my y-dna testing money. :frusty:

rms2
08-28-2016, 04:22 PM
I began this thread with the news that I managed to recruit off of Ancestry a descendant of Amos Stevens, born 16 Oct 1778, and that the man's initial 12-marker results are in and he matches me and my little band of Stevens/Stephens matches. I also mentioned a couple of posts later that this new match has ordered an upgrade to 111 markers.

This man's ancestor Amos was the son of Augustine Stevens, Sr., who was born around 1750, probably in Anne Arundel County or Baltimore County, Maryland, and Augustine was the brother of Benjamin Stevens, Sr., who was born in 1737, also in Maryland. I also mentioned that I already have a 106/111 match with a descendant of Benjamin Stevens, Sr.

Anyway, I cooked up another little graphic (they help me think things through) showing the possible relationship between my new match and me, based on the guess by me that my third great grandfather Auguston was the son of Augustine Stevens, Jr., the son of Augustine Stevens, Sr. This might be all wrong - it's just a guess - but I know I am related to this man somehow.

The results of this man's upgrade ought to be some kind of indicator. I am hoping he surpasses my current closest 111-marker matches, both of which are 107/111. "We will see", said the blind man.

11227

rms2
09-11-2016, 12:54 PM
My Stevens match, kit 522600, got his 111-marker upgrade results sometime last night or this morning. He matches me 109/111! Thank God! He is now my closest 111-marker match and a very solid one. I am also his closest 111-marker match. :beerchug:

I am pretty excited about this. It bolsters my belief that the mrca's we share are Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, born about 1750, and his wife Sophia Young Stevens. My suspicion is that Augustine and Sophia's son Augustine Jr. is the father of my third great grandfather Auguston Stevens, but that could be wrong. Auguston's father could be one of Augustine Jr.'s brothers, Jacob, John, or Benjamin or some other close relative (kit 522600 is descended from their brother Amos).

Here, once again, is the graphic that illustrates what I suspect is right. Wish I could prove it.

11544

jdean
09-11-2016, 01:06 PM
My Stevens match, kit 522600, got his 111-marker upgrade results sometime last night or this morning.

That was quick ; )

rms2
09-11-2016, 06:50 PM
That was quick ; )

It was. It took less than a month.

According to FTDNA's "Tip Report", there is a 98.82% chance that kit 522600 and I share a y-dna mrca sometime within the last 8 generations, which, reckoning from his and my dates of birth, would give us a y-dna mrca who was born roughly sometime between 1715 and 1755 (using 30 years per generation for the older date and 25 years per generation for the more recent date). Augustine Stevens Sr. fits that bill perfectly and seems the most likely suspect, since we know kit 522600 is descended from him via Augustine's son Amos.

It seems likely that one of Amos' brothers is the father of my third great grandfather Auguston. It's just a matter of figuring out which one.

C J Wyatt III
09-11-2016, 06:59 PM
It seems likely that one of Amos' brothers is the father of my third great grandfather Auguston. It's just a matter of figuring out which one.

Do you know anything about the wives of the brothers? Autosomal might be able to solve your problem of which brother.

Jack

mouse
09-11-2016, 07:01 PM
My Stevens match, kit 522600, got his 111-marker upgrade results sometime last night or this morning. He matches me 109/111! Thank God! He is now my closest 111-marker match and a very solid one. I am also his closest 111-marker match. :beerchug:

I am pretty excited about this. It bolsters my belief that the mrca's we share are Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, born about 1750, and his wife Sophia Young Stevens. My suspicion is that Augustine and Sophia's son Augustine Jr. is the father of my third great grandfather Auguston Stevens, but that could be wrong. Auguston's father could be one of Augustine Jr.'s brothers, Jacob, John, or Benjamin or some other close relative (kit 522600 is descended from their brother Amos).

Here, once again, is the graphic that illustrates what I suspect is right. Wish I could prove it.

11544

You need two Big Y tests to be sure.

JMcB
09-11-2016, 07:22 PM
My Stevens match, kit 522600, got his 111-marker upgrade results sometime last night or this morning. He matches me 109/111! Thank God! He is now my closest 111-marker match and a very solid one. I am also his closest 111-marker match. :beerchug:

I am pretty excited about this. It bolsters my belief that the mrca's we share are Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, born about 1750, and his wife Sophia Young Stevens. My suspicion is that Augustine and Sophia's son Augustine Jr. is the father of my third great grandfather Auguston Stevens, but that could be wrong. Auguston's father could be one of Augustine Jr.'s brothers, Jacob, John, or Benjamin or some other close relative (kit 522600 is descended from their brother Amos).

Here, once again, is the graphic that illustrates what I suspect is right. Wish I could prove it.

11544

Congratulations! You've put a lot of work into this and I'm glad to see it has borne some fruit!

jdean
09-11-2016, 07:44 PM
You need two Big Y tests to be sure.

DNA is great but it's not the whole story, the reason Rich has come so far is the judicial use of DNA and this stuff

11555

rms2
09-11-2016, 07:52 PM
You need two Big Y tests to be sure.

I'm pretty sure already, nearly certain really, but I only need one Big Y test, since I have already done it for myself. I will try to talk my match into doing the Big Y, and I will volunteer to contribute to defray the cost, since the Big Y is still kind of pricey.

Jdean mentioned the paper trail in his last post, and that is exactly right. I could tell you a lot of details as to why I am almost certain I'm right about this, but it would make for a really long post, and one that would be boring for those outside my own family (and boring for many inside it).

rms2
09-11-2016, 07:57 PM
Do you know anything about the wives of the brothers? Autosomal might be able to solve your problem of which brother.

Jack

I do know about some of them, and I actually have an Ancestry DNA match with a woman who is a descendant of Augustine Stevens Sr.'s brother Benjamin via his granddaughter Elizabeth. The only surname the two of us have in common is Stevens, and Ancestry rates her as a 5th - 8th cousin with a confidence level of "good". Here's a graphic that shows the likely connection.

11556

mouse
09-11-2016, 09:06 PM
I'm pretty sure already, nearly certain really, but I only need one Big Y test, since I have already done it for myself. I will try to talk my match into doing the Big Y, and I will volunteer to contribute to defray the cost, since the Big Y is still kind of pricey.

Jdean mentioned the paper trail in his last post, and that is exactly right. I could tell you a lot of details as to why I am almost certain I'm right about this, but it would make for a really long post, and one that would be boring for those outside my own family (and boring for many inside it).

If you have your novel SNPs from the Big Y you could create a panel at YSEQ for your Stevens clan. It would cost a lot less. Also,they will name all of your novel SNPs.

rms2
09-11-2016, 09:48 PM
If you have your novel SNPs from the Big Y you could create a panel at YSEQ for your Stevens clan. It would cost a lot less. Also,they will name all of your novel SNPs.

Good suggestion! I had not thought of that. Thanks!

I may try and see if he'll do the Big Y, and if that fails, I'll try your suggestion.

MitchellSince1893
09-12-2016, 12:47 AM
It was. It took less than a month.

According to FTDNA's "Tip Report", there is a 98.82% chance that kit 522600 and I share a y-dna mrca sometime within the last 8 generations, which, reckoning from his and my dates of birth, would give us a y-dna mrca who was born roughly sometime between 1715 and 1755 (using 30 years per generation for the older date and 25 years per generation for the more recent date). Augustine Stevens Sr. fits that bill perfectly and seems the most likely suspect, since we know kit 522600 is descended from him via Augustine's son Amos.

It seems likely that one of Amos' brothers is the father of my third great grandfather Auguston. It's just a matter of figuring out which one.

About a month ago FTDNA changed their Tip feature so the percentage are significantly higher than before. So a 98.82% today isn't as significant as it was a month ago. For example, a match at 67 markers that previously had a 73.34% match now is shown at 98.62%.

I had a thread on this unannounced change here http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8255-FYI-FTDNA-has-unexpectedly-changed-it-s-TiP-tool-again

rms2
09-12-2016, 01:07 AM
About a month ago FTDNA changed their Tip feature so the percentage are significantly higher than before. So a 98.82% today isn't as significant as it was a month ago. For example, a match at 67 markers that previously had a 73.34% match now is shown at 98.62%.

I had a thread on this unannounced change here http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?8255-FYI-FTDNA-has-unexpectedly-changed-it-s-TiP-tool-again

In this case the paper trail information makes it very likely that FTDNA is right on the money.

rms2
09-12-2016, 05:22 PM
Any way you slice it, 109/111 is a close match. Fathers and sons have been known to have such matches.

Kit 522600 is my closest match at 111, and his paper trail places his people in the right places at the right times, and with the right set of given names. I'm pretty sure his mdka, Augustine Stevens Sr., is our most recent common y-dna ancestor. The issue for me - and it's a big one - is bridging the one generation gap between Augustine Sr. and my third great grandfather Auguston (whose name was also spelled Augustine).

rms2
09-12-2016, 10:48 PM
We have been waiting for the initial 12-marker results of kit 528124, a descendant of Benjamin Stevens Sr., one of the brothers of Augustine Stevens Sr. Well, his results are in, and he is a match, but it's an 11/12 match. He has 10 at DYS391, whereas the rest of us have 11 there. He is clearly one of us, however, because the haplotype is unique enough to make that clear.

Here is his 12-marker haplotype in FTDNA order: 13 23 14 10 11-11 12 12 11 13 13 29.

Take a look at it in the context of the R1b-41-1123 Project, if you doubt me:

R1b-41-1123 Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b_41_1123?iframe=yresults)

Note the tell-tale 390=23, 385=11-11, and 439=11.

I hope he will upgrade to 111 markers.

rms2
09-13-2016, 12:20 PM
The owner of kit 528124 actually telephoned me last night. When I first recruited him via a message at Ancestry he sounded a bit tentative and reticent as if he did not quite know what to make of me. Now that he has seen his 12-marker results and the fact that seemingly out of the blue he matches a bunch of us with his surname, he has warmed right up and become enthusiastic. :)

He is interested in upgrading to 111 markers. I think we will be able to make that happen within the next couple of days.

mouse
09-13-2016, 12:31 PM
We have been waiting for the initial 12-marker results of kit 528124, a descendant of Benjamin Stevens Sr., one of the brothers of Augustine Stevens Sr. Well, his results are in, and he is a match, but it's an 11/12 match. He has 10 at DYS391, whereas the rest of us have 11 there. He is clearly one of us, however, because the haplotype is unique enough to make that clear.

Here is his 12-marker haplotype in FTDNA order: 13 23 14 10 11-11 12 12 11 13 13 29.

Take a look at it in the context of the R1b-41-1123 Project, if you doubt me:

R1b-41-1123 Project (https://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b_41_1123?iframe=yresults)

Note the tell-tale 390=23, 385=11-11, and 439=11.

I hope he will upgrade to 111 markers.

The 10 at DYS391 that he has is probably a private/family mutation. The modal for your group is determined by the majority with the same values for 111 YSTRs.

rms2
09-13-2016, 02:07 PM
The 10 at DYS391 that he has is probably a private/family mutation. The modal for your group is determined by the majority with the same values for 111 YSTRs.

Yes, as a guy with a graduate degree, I have taken some statistics classes and understand the meaning of the noun mode and its adjectival form, modal. Of course, I think I learned mean, median, and mode sometime in grammar school.

Most of the people here understand the meaning of modal, as in modal haplotype. Many of us have been around dna discussion forums for quite a few years now.

rms2
09-13-2016, 10:59 PM
Kits 528124 and 333340 share a common third great grandfather. Here's a graphic that illustrates the relationship.

11614

rms2
09-16-2016, 02:18 AM
Kits 528124 and 333340 share a common third great grandfather. Here's a graphic that illustrates the relationship.

11614

Kit 528124 ordered a 111-marker upgrade this evening and even telephoned me about it. B)

Now we wait.

rms2
09-17-2016, 01:42 PM
I have been excited lately about how my y-dna matches have been coming together with the paper trail in recent weeks to reveal more of the tale of my father line ancestry. Without y-dna testing, there is no way I would have found out as much as I have or really have any clue back beyond my third great grandfather.

Anyway, I mentioned that I think my recent 109/111 match to kit 522600 (I should get his permission to mention his name) shows that he and I both descend from Augustine Stevens Sr. (c. 1750) and his wife Sophia Young Stevens. We know 522600 does; the question is whether I do or not. I think the match makes it likely that I do.

Here is a phylogenetic tree generated by SAPP (http://www.jdvtools.com/SAPP/) that I think tends to support that notion, although it shows our tmrca as rather too recent. It is based on the 111-marker haplotypes of all our Stevens/Stephens matches who have that many markers. (Thanks again, Dave-V.)

522600 and I are over on the right side of the tree.

11683

rms2
09-30-2016, 10:27 PM
One thing that FTDNA needs to work on now is the speed of results. One would think they would have it down to two weeks by now. Really.

rms2
10-01-2016, 12:29 AM
Kit 312416 just got his 111-marker upgrade in, and he is a 108/111 match for me. Woo-hoo! His MDKA is Charles Stevens, born about 1795, probably in Fayette County, PA. That makes him my second best 111-marker match, after kit 522600 (109/111).

Always good to get another close match like that, especially one that adds confirmation to the family pool there in Fayette County, Pennsylvania.

rms2
10-01-2016, 01:08 AM
Here is my updated table of Stevens/Stephens matches, 37 markers and up.

11929

rms2
10-01-2016, 01:49 PM
Kit 312416 just got his 111-marker upgrade in, and he is a 108/111 match for me. Woo-hoo! His MDKA is Charles Stevens, born about 1795, probably in Fayette County, PA. That makes him my second best 111-marker match, after kit 522600 (109/111).

Always good to get another close match like that, especially one that adds confirmation to the family pool there in Fayette County, Pennsylvania.

I should mention that kit 312416 went from a 35/37 match for me to 108/111, which is pretty amazing. He picked up only one more unit of genetic distance from me in that big upgrade.

We are still waiting on the 111-marker upgrade of kit 528124, which is going all the way from 12 to 111 markers. He is a descendant of Benjamin Stevens, b. 1737 in Maryland.

R.Rocca
10-02-2016, 12:45 PM
I should mention that kit 312416 went from a 35/37 match for me to 108/111, which is pretty amazing. He picked up only one more unit of genetic distance from me in that big upgrade.

We are still waiting on the 111-marker upgrade of kit 528124, which is going all the way from 12 to 111 markers. He is a descendant of Benjamin Stevens, b. 1737 in Maryland.

It looks to me like the Stevens clan was all over by the late colonial period, no? Is the earliest settlement point in Pennsylvania?

rms2
10-02-2016, 07:24 PM
It looks to me like the Stevens clan was all over by the late colonial period, no? Is the earliest settlement point in Pennsylvania?

Looks like it was Maryland. The family came up to Fayette County, PA from Ellicott's Mills (now Ellicott City), Maryland, at that time in Anne Arundel County (now in Frederick County). Genealogist Joan Peake suspects they were in Talbot County, Maryland before that, because there was a bunch of Stevenses there.

rms2
10-02-2016, 07:26 PM
Here is something interesting I did not know before today. I have often wondered why Samuel Stevens' wife Ann Murphy was also known as "Nancy". Well, it turns out Nancy was originally a nickname, a diminutive, for Ann or Anne. It came to be used as a given name in its own right in the 18th century.

Ann = Nancy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_(given_name))

AJL
10-02-2016, 11:35 PM
Here is something interesting I did not know before today. I have often wondered why Samuel Stevens' wife Ann Murphy was also known as "Nancy". Well, it turns out Nancy was originally a nickname, a diminutive, for Ann or Anne. It came to be used as a given name in its own right in the 18th century.

Ann = Nancy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_(given_name))

Not knowing how names link to nicknames can often cause one to miss that two seemingly different people are in fact one. There are a number of examples in English (Sally = Sarah, Peggy = Margaret, etc.), but double-naming is an even more vexing problem for first and second generation immigrants where there is no obvious name equivalent or where the English version of the name would only be obvious if you knew a lot about the other language (e.g. Geertje > Gertrude, Lotta > Charlotte, Yasha > Jack, Mieczysław > Michael, Herschel > Harry, Jöran > George, etc.).

Dave-V
10-03-2016, 04:37 AM
Well, it turns out Nancy was originally a nickname, a diminutive, for Ann or Anne. It came to be used as a given name in its own right in the 18th century.

Interesting. I have an "Ann/Anne" ancestor d. abt 1810 who was known as "Nan"; not a big stretch to "Nancy".

But I have read that many common diminutives have been preserved in the U.S. which apparently makes immigrant lines a fascinating field of study for scholars of first names (however rare that field is :)). For instance one of my Y-DNA line ancestors in the U.S. married a Scottish woman with the first name of "Euphens" who went by the diminutive "Effie". The next four generations of daughters all included an "Effie" even though the original name was lost.

rms2
10-09-2016, 02:45 PM
Kit 528124 got his 111-marker upgrade sometime overnight, well ahead of schedule, since FTDNA's earliest predicted date was 02 November 2016. As expected, his closest match is his 4th cousin, kit 333340 (106/111). They are a touch more distant than I expected, at 106/111, since they share the same third great grandfather, but mutations happen. Their paper trails are good, however, and they are 111-marker matches for one another. They both share 442=13, which is unique to them in our project. The rest of us, including the non-Stephens/Stevens members, all have 442=12, and 442 is not a fast mutator.

Interestingly, all but one of 528124's departures from the modal occur in his first 37 markers.

Here is a table of genetic distances at 111 markers.

12053

rms2
10-09-2016, 04:55 PM
Here is the latest SAPP Tree for my matches and me, which I had to split in two because Paint can't cope with it without reducing it to something that can't be read. I supplied the genealogical info, obviously.

12054 12055

rms2
10-09-2016, 05:56 PM
I realize I have been blessed to have a lot of same-surname y-dna matches, since I know there are plenty of guys out there without a single good match of any kind, let alone even one good same-surname match. Whoever our common ancestor was, apparently he was pretty prolific.

Here is the table of my Stephens/Stevens matches, 37 markers and up. There are no repeats in the table. Each match is reported only once, at the highest level of resolution (as you can tell from the kit numbers).

12058

leonardo
10-09-2016, 06:23 PM
I realize I have been blessed to have a lot of same-surname y-dna matches, since I know there are plenty of guys out there without a single good match of any kind, let alone even one good same-surname match. Whoever our common ancestor was, apparently he was pretty prolific.

Here is the table of my Stephens/Stevens matches, 37 markers and up. There are no repeats in the table. Each match is reported only once, at the highest level of resolution (as you can tell from the kit numbers).

12058

Good for you. For the rest of us, there is always someday...

rms2
11-24-2016, 01:52 PM
Here is one of those funny, it's-a-small-world kind of things. Some years ago I used to live in the Shenandoah Valley in the little town of Woodstock, Virginia. Just across Massanutten Mountain to the east is a beautiful area called Fort Valley. A number of long-time Woodstock residents, upon learning my last name, told me there was a bunch of Stephens/Stevens over in Fort Valley and that the family had been there a long long time. I kind of shrugged it off and replied that those people probably weren't related to me.

Well, it turns out they are related to me! One of my closest Stephens matches (106/111) tells me he has a lot of Stephens cousins in Fort Valley. They are having a family reunion this next summer (2017). He says he will see if he can get me invited, as well.

This screen shot of the map shows the proximity of Woodstock to Fort Valley.

12724

rms2
12-18-2016, 02:07 AM
I am supposed to have lunch with a second cousin of mine at a pub up in the Washington, DC area on 23 December (I am off for the Christmas holiday then). I am supposed to bring him up to speed on the latest family dna and genealogical results.

Our grandfathers are brothers. :hug:

I'm looking forward to it. :beerchug:

rms2
12-24-2016, 02:21 PM
I am supposed to have lunch with a second cousin of mine at a pub up in the Washington, DC area on 23 December (I am off for the Christmas holiday then). I am supposed to bring him up to speed on the latest family dna and genealogical results.

Our grandfathers are brothers. :hug:

I'm looking forward to it. :beerchug:

My second cousin and I did meet for lunch yesterday. I was half an hour late due to the horrendous I-95 traffic, part of which was due to the Christmas holiday, and part of which was due to a terrible accident at Quantico, which backed things up for miles. Anyway, we had a great time catching up, and in the end he decided to order a 111-marker y-dna test from FTDNA. We should match exactly, given that our grandfathers are brothers. Time will tell.

He and I also plan to collaborate on the family paper trail. He also told me he believes my grandfather is buried in the family plot in Metairie Cemetery in New Orleans, where his grandparents and parents and our mutual great grandfather are all buried. I did not know that, because my father could not remember where my grandfather is buried (my dad was five when my grandfather died).

My second cousin did in fact order the y-dna test early this morning and joined the Stephens DNA Project. :beerchug:

JMcB
12-24-2016, 02:49 PM
My second cousin and I did meet for lunch yesterday. I was half an hour late due to the horrendous I-95 traffic, part of which was due to the Christmas holiday, and part of which was due to a terrible accident at Quantico, which backed things up for miles. Anyway, we had a great time catching up, and in the end he decided to order a 111-marker y-dna test from FTDNA. We should match exactly, given that our grandfathers are brothers. Time will tell.

He and I also plan to collaborate on the family paper trail. He also told me he believes my grandfather is buried in the family plot in Metairie Cemetery in New Orleans, where his grandparents and parents and our mutual great grandfather are all buried. I did not know that, because my father could not remember where my grandfather is buried (my dad was five when my grandfather died).

My second cousin did in fact order the y-dna test early this morning and joined the Stephens DNA Project. :beerchug:

Good news, indeed! Looks like you're making great headway.

rms2
12-24-2016, 03:49 PM
Thanks!

An interesting thing my second cousin told me is that his grandfather had our great grandfather moved from his original burial place to Metairie Cemetery. That's another thing I did not know. When I created the Find A Grave entry for my great grandfather a couple of years ago, I based it on the newspaper obituary from 1920 that said he was buried in Valence Street Cemetery. Thanks to this new information, I just updated that Find A Grave entry.

rms2
12-27-2016, 02:18 PM
Two things yesterday and today that are big news for me. First, my closest Stevens match thus far (109/111) just ordered the Big Y. That is good news. Maybe we'll get some family-identifying private SNPs out of it.

Second, I was poking around my FTDNA Family Finder matches and found a woman who matches me and my dad who is a descendant of Amos H. Stevens, born 1778 in Ellicott's Mills, Maryland, and his wife Hannah Cunning through their daughter Nancy, born 1801. I've mentioned Amos before in this thread. He is part of that Stevens family group who went from Maryland to Fayette County, Pennsylvania, the group that genealogist Joan Peake identified as the source of my Stevens line. Amos is the son of Augustine "Augustus" Stevens, my likely ancestor.

This is the second autosomal match that links me to this group. I mentioned the other one before, as well. It is an Ancestry DNA match with a woman who is a descendant of Benjamin Stevens Sr. via his granddaughter Elizabeth. Two of my close 111-marker y-dna matches are descendants of Benjamin Stevens Sr., the brother of Augustine Stevens.

There might be other such matches, but FTDNA's system makes it kind of cumbersome to try to check pedigrees.

JMcB
12-27-2016, 08:42 PM
First, congratulations, you've been making a lot of progress lately.

Secondly:

-- There might be other such matches, but FTDNA's system makes it kind of cumbersome to try to check pedigrees. --

Boy, you can say that again! I actually called to tell them how unwieldy they've made everyone's Family Tree, by changing the configuration. I used to be able to look at 8 or more generations of a Family Tree in one glance, now you have to wade through their tedious pedigree format, which is a major set back as far as I'm concerned. I don't even want to use the damn thing anymore.

rms2
12-28-2016, 12:34 AM
First, congratulations, you've been making a lot of progress lately.

Secondly:

-- There might be other such matches, but FTDNA's system makes it kind of cumbersome to try to check pedigrees. --

Boy, you can say that again! I actually called to tell them how unwieldy they've made everyone's Family Tree, by changing the configuration. I used to be able to look at 8 or more generations of a Family Tree in one glance, now you have to wade through their tedious pedigree format, which is a major set back as far as I'm concerned. I don't even want to use the damn thing anymore.

Yeah, it's a pain in the arse. I was lucky this lady is basically in my dad's generation, which makes her Stevens connection not too far back. She's my dad's fifth cousin, if I'm right about it, and my fifth cousin once removed.

rms2
12-29-2016, 01:23 AM
My second great grandfather James Holmes Stevens was a Captain in the Confederate Army during the Civil War, even though he was born in Beaver County, Pennsylvania. My second cousin Paul just a little while ago sent me a couple of photos of the Captain's Civil War sword, which Paul's brother has.

13374 13375 13376

jdean
12-29-2016, 02:20 AM
My second great grandfather James Holmes Stevens was a Captain in the Confederate Army during the Civil War, even though he was born in Beaver County, Pennsylvania. My second cousin Paul just a little while ago sent me a couple of photos of the Captain's Civil War sword, which Paul's brother has.

13374 13375 13376

Wow !!!!!

MitchellSince1893
12-29-2016, 02:58 AM
My second great grandfather James Holmes Stevens was a Captain in the Confederate Army during the Civil War, even though he was born in Beaver County, Pennsylvania. My second cousin Paul just a little while ago sent me a couple of photos of the Captain's Civil War sword, which Paul's brother has.

13374 13375 13376

Not to hijack your thread but I've got one of those too. On the top of the blade it says something I can't read followed by "Klingenthal Coulaux" followed by two very cursive capital letters which I can't make out.
It's from my father's maternal side (surname would be either Williamson or Oliver) but I'm not sure who. As best I can tell none of them were officers or NCOs, but one of them was a Private in the 3rd North Carolina Artillery and I believe this is an artillery style sword.

13377

EDIT: It was a 1850 model sword and was used by both sides during the War.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/210389-model-1850-civil-war-sword-made-in-france-by-klingenthal/
From another site that explains the ingraving
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=788952

Klingenthal was a French Sword maker from 1733 to 1962 that was bought be the Coulaux family in 1836
http://users.skynet.be/euro-swords/klingenthal.htm

JMcB
12-29-2016, 03:36 AM
My second great grandfather James Holmes Stevens was a Captain in the Confederate Army during the Civil War, even though he was born in Beaver County, Pennsylvania. My second cousin Paul just a little while ago sent me a couple of photos of the Captain's Civil War sword, which Paul's brother has.

13374 13375 13376

Beautifully made!

Adrian Stevenson
12-29-2016, 10:06 AM
Very nice swords! Thanks for showing them.

Cheers, Ade.

rms2
12-29-2016, 06:55 PM
I found a photo of my grandfather's older brother Miles Gordon Stevens this morning on Ancestry as part of his "Seaman's Certificate of American Citizenship or Intention Papers". Nice photo. He was just two days shy of his 22nd birthday when that photo was taken or at least by the date on the paperwork (26 Aug 1918).

13381 13382

rms2
12-30-2016, 12:04 AM
Not to hijack your thread but I've got one of those too. On the top of the blade it says something I can't read followed by "Klingenthal Coulaux" followed by two very cursive capital letters which I can't make out.
It's from my father's maternal side (surname would be either Williamson or Oliver) but I'm not sure who. As best I can tell none of them were officers or NCOs, but one of them was a Private in the 3rd North Carolina Artillery and I believe this is an artillery style sword.

13377

EDIT: It was a 1850 model sword and was used by both sides during the War.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/210389-model-1850-civil-war-sword-made-in-france-by-klingenthal/
From another site that explains the ingraving
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=788952

Klingenthal was a French Sword maker from 1733 to 1962 that was bought be the Coulaux family in 1836
http://users.skynet.be/euro-swords/klingenthal.htm

Very nice. I don't think you were hijacking the thread at all. I relish the input and the friendly exchange. Your posts are always good anyway.

MitchellSince1893
12-31-2016, 01:27 AM
Very nice. I don't think you were hijacking the thread at all. I relish the input and the friendly exchange. Your posts are always good anyway.

Thanks for the kind words. This thread has made me dig into my ancestry a little more.


It's from my father's maternal side (surname would be either Williamson or Oliver) but I'm not sure who. As best I can tell none of them were officers or NCOs, but one of them was a Private in the 3rd North Carolina Artillery and I believe this is an artillery style sword.

Doing some additional family research, my Williamson 3xgreat grandfather had 4 brothers that were killed during the Civil War...a 5th brother died before the war in 1860.
1. Private with Company “L” of the 21st SC Volunteers was killed in action at Swift Creek, VA in the ongoing Petersburg Campaign. Buried in Blandford Cemetery, Petersburg.
2. First Sergeant with Company “L” of the 21st SCV, was killed in action at Fort Fisher, NC on January 15, 1865
3. Private with Company “L” of the 21st SC Regiment Infantry, Wounded at Fort Fisher on Jan. 15, 1865 and was taken prisoner; he died at sea on January 30, 1865 en route to a prisoner of war camp in Maryland and is buried at Point Lookout Confederate Cemetery, Scotland, St. Mary's Co., MD.
4. Private with Company “L” of the 21st SCV. He was killed in action, after Fort Fisher fell, on January 27, 1865.

So this sword could have belonged to brother #2 who was the First Sergeant, and my 3 great grandfather received it after his brother's death at Fort Fisher? I dunno.


When in full dress and sometimes also in battle, sergeants in non-mounted service branches carried the M1840 NCO Sword suspending on a leather belt
Unfortunately the sword I have is the M1850 sword
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_the_Confederate_States

EDIT: Another thought is maybe the commanding officer of Company L of the 21st SCV gave the parents of these 3 brothers that died his sword as a sign of respect. If so, then it may have been Captain W. B. Baker's sword. He, along with the entire company was captured at Fort Fisher. As a child I went on a field trip to this Civil War battlefield...but had no idea of my personal connection to it.

JMcB
12-31-2016, 05:03 AM
My Great Great Grandfather who fought with the 23rd Mississippi Infantry also lost his brother in the war:

Sgt. Samuel Oliver McBryde D. Co. 7th Miss. Cav. was wounded at the Battle of Franklin in Collierville, Tennessee on November 3rd 1863. He was captured and died of his wounds. His burial location in Tennessee is unknown.

One thing I learned as I was researching the above was that the uniforms they wore was actually brown not gray. Which probably made for great camouflage.

This uniform was made of butternut homespun wool. Although the official color of Confederate uniforms was gray, many western armies used butternut fabric because it was locally made and easier to obtain.

https://www.mdah.ms.gov/senseofplace/2011/01/26/civil-war-uniform-coat/

rms2
12-31-2016, 01:34 PM
I understand that brown coloring came from using the bark and nuts from the Butternut tree, a type of American walnut, to dye uniforms.

Here is another of my second great grandfathers who was a Confederate veteran: Captain John Holmes, Co. E, 16th Mississippi Infantry, Army of Northern Virginia. His record is really interesting. He was in Jackson's Valley Campaign and in every major battle that Lee's Army of North Virginia fought, except First Manassas (Bull Run). He was captured at Petersburg, sent at first to the Old Capitol Prison in Washington, D.C., later transferred to the prison for officers at Fort Delaware, and was finally part of a prisoner exchange that saw him taken by steamboat to Savannah, Georgia, where he was paroled and sent home.

13402

John Holmes was the father of my great grandmother, Jonnie T. Holmes, the wife of my great grandfather, James Holmes Stevens Jr. (Apparently the Holmes in his middle name is unconected to the Holmes that was their surname.)

JMcB
12-31-2016, 03:38 PM
Very interesting! When you get down into the details it's amazing what some of them went through.

My GG Grandfather's unit was ravaged by disease before they even saw any action and when they did, they were besieged in a fort, forced to surrender and taken prisoner. Then they were later exchanged and fought in a variety of campaigns throughout the war.

Meanwhile, the area where they lived was totally devastated because it was repeatedly occupied by both armies. So naturally both sides kept coming in and demanding provisions from the local population which obviously had a very negative impact and left their economy in a shambles for years to come.

Nevertheless, they got what they deserved because their way of life was indefensible and morally bankrupt and it had to come to an end.

All in all, I'm glad I wasn't there.

rms2
12-31-2016, 05:12 PM
. . .

Nevertheless, they got what they deserved because their way of life was indefensible and morally bankrupt and it had to come to an end.

. . .

I wouldn't go that far. Things were more complex than that, and most of them were not slaveholders.

C J Wyatt III
12-31-2016, 06:34 PM
I wouldn't go that far. Things were more complex than that, and most of them were not slaveholders.

Exactly. Many got duped into state sovereignty instead of national. The wealthy in the South pretty much had a disdain for the dirt farmer and it shows at times when the commanders let their forces get chewed up.

I've been doing some research into an area of partisan warfare in NE Alabama, N Georgia, and Tennessee. At times it gets pretty crazy.

Jack

MitchellSince1893
12-31-2016, 06:55 PM
I wouldn't go that far. Things were more complex than that, and most of them were not slaveholders.

I do not wish to turn this into a political discussion but I found this interesting article on the subject. https://deadconfederates.com/2011/04/28/ninety-eight-percent-of-texas-confederate-soldiers-never-owned-a-slave/

Regardless of our ancestry, I think we can all agree with the political outcome of the Civil War was right and necessary. The challenge for southerners is how to view our heritage. Our immediate ancestors filled with resentment at the outcome (e.g. the War of Northern Aggression) were very proud of their brothers/fathers/uncles/grandfather's service and sacrifices. As time has passed and generations have increased this emotional attachment has lessened. Growing up, I had no stories passed down to me about my ancestors' roles in the Civil War. Thus I had no emotional attachment to them. It's something I've only discovered recently via genealogical research.

Statistically I know some of my ancestors must have been slave owners, and I can see it in the faces of some of my matches' profile pictures on family finder. I even see African American matches on my father's paternal line which arrived in the US from England and Wales in the early 20th Century (some of my father's paternal ancestors' siblings must have gone from Britain to America in the 1600s and 1700s and fathered children with slaves).

What do I do with this information? How do I feel about it? I'm not sure but unlike many of my southern neighbors I don't have any particular pride in my southern heritage...nor am I ashamed. It's just an unemotional reality of who I am. Maybe it's because I'm a North Carolinian. There's an old saying that "North Carolina is a valley of humility between two mountains of conceit." http://www.ncpedia.org/vale-humility-between-two-mountains

Meaning our neighbors to the north and south often have taken their southern heritage much more seriously than North Carolinians typically do. When I attended my first University of South Carolina football game back in the 1980s. We were playing the Citadel. At half time the Citadel marching band came out and played "Dixie" and the crowd went nuts. It was there and then I realized there was a huge cultural difference between NC and SC. I felt I was alien in a foreign land. ;)

rms2
12-31-2016, 07:08 PM
This is probably a topic best avoided, since I think southern heritage and the Civil War are currently viewed through a modern lens for which there is a term that I can't use here at Anthrogenica because I've been cautioned on it once already.

My dad's side fought for the Confederacy, even though my y-dna second great grandfather was born in Beaver County, Pennsylvania, and the family did not come south until the mid-1840s, when he was nine or ten years old. My mother's family, however, fought for the Union, even though they lived in Lauderdale County, Alabama. They were early Republicans and thus strong believers in the Union. My maternal second great grandfather (the one with my mother's surname) was killed in action in 1864 along with one of his brothers. Fortunately before my second great grandfather died he had fathered my great grandfather.

Here's an old photo of another of my second great grandfather's brothers who fought in the same Union unit.

13404

C J Wyatt III
12-31-2016, 07:26 PM
.

Here's an old photo of another of my second great grandfather's brothers who fought in the same Union unit.

13404

Do you know what the unit was?

Thanks,

Jack

rms2
12-31-2016, 07:36 PM
Do you know what the unit was?

Thanks,

Jack

Yep: Company E, 2nd Tennessee Mounted Infantry.

They rode to battle, then dismounted and fought as infantry.

Like I said, it was a Union Army unit, despite the Tennessee designation.

JMcB
12-31-2016, 07:52 PM
I wouldn't go that far. Things were more complex than that, and most of them were not slaveholders.

Of course, there are always degrees of complicity and no doubt there were innocent bystanders who were just trying to mind there own business. On the other hand they did go to war in large numbers to try and uphold a way of life that oppressed other human beings. And I would think that it's safe to say, that a majority of the Southern population supported them in that endeavor. Including those who weren't personally slave owners. So to whatever degree they supported or acquiesced in what was a morally bankrupt system, they were complicit and in my opinion, what they reaped, is what they had sown.

C J Wyatt III
12-31-2016, 07:59 PM
Yep: Company E, 2nd Tennessee Mounted Infantry.

They rode to battle, then dismounted and fought as infantry.

Like I said, it was a Union Army unit, despite the Tennessee designation.

I am familiar with the Tennessee Mounted Infantry (USA). I was wondering if your Alabama relatives had joined with the Union in Tennessee. I don't think the 2nd was involved with chasing down the bushwhacker who I have been researching.

Jack

JMcB
12-31-2016, 08:03 PM
This is probably a topic best avoided, since I think southern heritage and the Civil War are currently viewed through a modern lens for which there is a term that I can't use here at Anthrogenica because I've been cautioned on it once already.

My dad's side fought for the Confederacy, even though my y-dna second great grandfather was born in Beaver County, Pennsylvania, and the family did not come south until the mid-1840s, when he was nine or ten years old. My mother's family, however, fought for the Union, even though they lived in Lauderdale County, Alabama. They were early Republicans and thus strong believers in the Union. My maternal second great grandfather (the one with my mother's surname) was killed in action in 1864 along with one of his brothers. Fortunately before my second great grandfather died he had fathered my great grandfather.

Here's an old photo of another of my second great grandfather's brothers who fought in the same Union unit.

13404

Now I know where you get your mustache from.

rms2
12-31-2016, 08:04 PM
Of course, there are always degrees of complicity and no doubt there were innocent bystanders who were just trying to mind there own business. On the other hand they did go to war in large numbers to try and uphold a way of life that oppressed other human beings. And I would think that it's safe to say, that a majority of the Southern population supported them in that endeavor. Including those who weren't personally slave owners. So to whatever degree they supported or acquiesced in what was a morally bankrupt system, they were complicit and in my opinion, what they reaped, is what they had sown.

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't believe the reason the vast majority of southerners went to war was "to try and uphold a way of life that oppressed other human beings". I think most of them believed they had the right to determine their own destiny and deal with the slave question and other issues themselves. Perhaps they saw more than a little hypocrisy in a region (New England) whose ship owners had a made a fortune in the African slave trade before it was outlawed preaching abolition without offering any practical means of achieving it.

Slavery was an ancient institution. It wasn't a good thing, but I don't think people who had inherited it as part of the world and society as it was, and brought to their shores by the Dutch and the English, deserved to be singled out for some sort of special form of violent retribution, as if they were monsters unique in the history of the world.

rms2
12-31-2016, 08:08 PM
I am familiar with the Tennessee Mounted Infantry (USA). I was wondering if your Alabama relatives had joined with the Union in Tennessee. I don't think the 2nd was involved with chasing down the bushwhacker who I have been researching.

Jack

In fact, my second great grandfather and his brother had gone home to Florence, Alabama, on leave to slaughter their hogs when they were jumped by southern guerrillas (irregulars, not actual Confederates) and killed. My second great grandfather's National Archives record shows that he was shot six times in the abdomen. My grandmother had told me the story when I was a little boy, long before I had seen the record, and it scared the sh*t out of me. I did not know what guerrillas were and imagined them as some sort of mad killers liable to break in at any time and do the same to us.

rms2
12-31-2016, 08:30 PM
In fact, my second great grandfather and his brother had gone home to Florence, Alabama, on leave to slaughter their hogs when they were jumped by southern guerrillas (irregulars, not actual Confederates) and killed. My second great grandfather's National Archives record shows that he was shot six times in the abdomen. My grandmother had told me the story when I was a little boy, long before I had seen the record, and it scared the sh*t out of me. I did not know what guerrillas were and imagined them as some sort of mad killers liable to break in at any time and do the same to us.

I should mention that after the Civil War my mother's family left Alabama and went up to Missouri, where my mother was born (not that Missouri was the safest place for the family of a deceased Union soldier). My second great grandmother got a pension based on my second great grandfather's service and death while in uniform.

MitchellSince1893
12-31-2016, 08:40 PM
Eastern Tennessee has always had a special appeal to me as it was southern yet remained loyal to the Union. They attempted to secede from Tennessee after Tennessee seceded from the Union.


East Tennessee was a stronghold of Unionism; most slaves were house servants—luxuries—rather than the base of plantation operations. The dominant mood strongly opposed secession.[23] Tennesseans representing twenty-six East Tennessee counties met twice in Greeneville and Knoxville and agreed to secede from Tennessee (see East Tennessee Convention of 1861.) They petitioned the state legislature in Nashville, which denied their request to secede and sent Confederate troops under Felix Zollicoffer to occupy East Tennessee and prevent secession.
East Tennessee thus came under Confederate control from 1861 to 1863. Nevertheless East Tennessee supplied significant numbers of troops to the Federal army. (See also Nickajack). Many East Tennesseans engaged in guerrilla warfare against state authorities by burning bridges, cutting telegraph wires, and spying for the North.[24] East Tennessee became an early base for the Republican Party in the South. Strong support for the Union challenged the Confederate commanders who controlled East Tennessee for most of the war. Generals Felix K. Zollicoffer, Edmund Kirby Smith, and Sam Jones oscillated between harsh measures and conciliatory gestures to gain support, but had little success whether they arrested hundreds of Unionist leaders or allowed men to escape the Confederate draft. Union forces finally captured the region in 1863.[25]
General William Sherman's famous March to the Sea saw him personally escorted by the 1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, which consisted entirely of Unionist southerners. Despite its name, the regiment consisted largely of men from Tennessee.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_in_the_American_Civil_War

Along with Northern Alabama and a small section of NW Georgia there was talk of forming a new state called Nickajack.

Nickajack was made up of loosely defined regions of North Alabama and East Tennessee where popular sentiment remained loyal to the Union, and were decidedly anti-slavery.
In the period leading up to the American Civil War, there had been increasing talk of secession by the politicians representing wealthy plantation owners in the Black Belt. Hill country residents, however, were typically poor dirt-farmers and rarely slave owners. They believed such a war of secession would be "a war for the rich, fought by the poor," and they wanted to have nothing to do with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickajack
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/wendellmayes/nickajack.jpg

JMcB
12-31-2016, 08:49 PM
I do not wish to turn this into a political discussion but I found this interesting article on the subject. https://deadconfederates.com/2011/04/28/ninety-eight-percent-of-texas-confederate-soldiers-never-owned-a-slave/.

Thank you Mitchell, that's an interesting article with some useful links.

JMcB
12-31-2016, 08:57 PM
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't believe the reason the vast majority of southerners went to war was "to try and uphold a way of life that oppressed other human beings". I think most of them believed they had the right to determine their own destiny and deal with the slave question and other issues themselves. Perhaps they saw more than a little hypocrisy in a region (New England) whose ship owners had a made a fortune in the African slave trade before it was outlawed preaching abolition without offering any practical means of achieving it.

Slavery was an ancient institution. It wasn't a good thing, but I don't think people who had inherited it as part of the world and society as it was, and brought to their shores by the Dutch and the English, deserved to be singled out for some sort of special form of violent retribution, as if they were monsters unique in the history of the world.

Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

rms2
01-01-2017, 02:47 PM
Eastern Tennessee has always had a special appeal to me as it was southern yet remained loyal to the Union. They attempted to secede from Tennessee after Tennessee seceded from the Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_in_the_American_Civil_War

Along with Northern Alabama and a small section of NW Georgia there was talk of forming a new state called Nickajack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickajack
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii177/wendellmayes/nickajack.jpg

That's the area my mom's family was from, which explains their service in the Union Army. They had come to Tennessee from North Carolina (after having gone to North Carolina from Maryland) and later moved right across the border to Lauderdale County, Alabama (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lauderdale+County,+AL/@34.8693781,-88.8226577,8z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x887d37bcabdda917:0x9105735b86c64 df4!8m2!3d34.8840876!4d-87.658113). I think they still owned land in Tennessee, as well.

Pigmon
01-01-2017, 06:34 PM
Interestingly, my Mom's family came from just North of the Nickajack area which was Harlan, Clay, Leslie Co. Kentucky on the Border with Tennnessee. The Jones family was from first Fincastle Co. Virginia, then Bull Creek, Clay County, Kentucky. Almost all of the Jones, Asher and Hoskins families were Union. My Dad's family was confederate but choosing sides wasn't about owning slaves.

The disagreement with these guys in the Kentucky hills was about state's rights and whether the Federal government was going to tell them what they could and could not do. Stubborn as they were/are they chose a side and sometimes died for their beliefs. The land was too hilly to have plantations on and they were all dirt poor to own much of anything whether they were Union or Confederate.



That's the area my mom's family was from, which explains their service in the Union Army. They had come to Tennessee from North Carolina (after having gone to North Carolina from Maryland) and later moved right across the border to Lauderdale County, Alabama (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lauderdale+County,+AL/@34.8693781,-88.8226577,8z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x887d37bcabdda917:0x9105735b86c64 df4!8m2!3d34.8840876!4d-87.658113). I think they still owned land in Tennessee, as well.

vettor
01-01-2017, 07:23 PM
Interestingly, my Mom's family came from just North of the Nickajack area which was Harlan, Clay, Leslie Co. Kentucky on the Border with Tennnessee. The Jones family was from first Fincastle Co. Virginia, then Bull Creek, Clay County, Kentucky. Almost all of the Jones, Asher and Hoskins families were Union. My Dad's family was confederate but choosing sides wasn't about owning slaves.

The disagreement with these guys in the Kentucky hills was about state's rights and whether the Federal government was going to tell them what they could and could not do. Stubborn as they were/are they chose a side and sometimes died for their beliefs. The land was too hilly to have plantations on and they were all dirt poor to own much of anything whether they were Union or Confederate.

Well, Kentucky like Missouri, Maryland and Delaware where Union slave states ( slavery was "Ok" in those states even after the 1863 Emancipation laws ) , the majority of fighting men fought for the North. Since only 10% of southern/Confederate people in all the southern states owned slaves, my guess would be that Kentucky had a majority of Slave plantations owned by men who fought for the North.

The Civil war for southern ideals was about maintaining state rights granted from the war of Independence.

Interesting is, Delaware was the first USA slave state in 1787 and it was the last to end slavery after the Civil war

Pigmon
01-01-2017, 07:59 PM
If you have never been to the Appalachian hills of Eastern Kentucky then you probably don't really understand what I am saying. The Eastern part of Kentucky (where I live) is vastly different from Central and Western Ky. The land is level almost nowhere and there is no place to have a large plantation and therefore there were very few slaves in this part of the state. So even if they were allowed to have slaves 1. they had no money to purchase them 2. they had no interest in owning another person and their family. 3. It was not the temperment of the people in this area.

Many of us here have a small percentage of "Mullato" ancestry (including me) as well so we would lean toward anti-slavery regardless of whether our ancestors fought for the Union army or the Confederate army. So it is not nearly as cut and dried a discussion as one might think.

The basic disagreement was states rights but it was also about economics for the South. Even though it impacted the hills very little, the Southerners who had large plantations had invested their money in their land and buying slaves from entrepreneurs in the North would lose everything. A study found that the entire costs of the lands and money used for buying slaves could have been paid to the South and compared to the cost of the Civil War everyone would have saved money.

JMcB
01-01-2017, 08:09 PM
Eastern Tennessee has always had a special appeal to me as it was southern yet remained loyal to the Union. They attempted to secede from Tennessee after Tennessee seceded from the Union.


[QUOTE=rms2;206161]That's the area my mom's family was from, which explains their service in the Union Army. They had come to Tennessee from North Carolina (after having gone to North Carolina from Maryland) and later moved right across the border to Lauderdale County, Alabama (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lauderdale+County,+AL/@34.8693781,-88.8226577,8z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x887d37bcabdda917:0x9105735b86c64 df4!8m2!3d34.8840876!4d-87.658113). I think they still owned land in Tennessee, as well.


Using the links from Mitchell's article (thank you again, Mitchell) you can see why the Eastern portion of the Tennessee wasn't so happy about the idea. The number of households that owned a slave was far less.

13410

Although Northern Alabama looks like it may have been a little more contentious, at least in the North West.

13411

Coincidentally, my ancestors were right across the border in Tippah County, Mississippi. Which is the county in light green, second one in from the top right.

vettor
01-01-2017, 09:11 PM
If you have never been to the Appalachian hills of Eastern Kentucky then you probably don't really understand what I am saying. The Eastern part of Kentucky (where I live) is vastly different from Central and Western Ky. The land is level almost nowhere and there is no place to have a large plantation and therefore there were very few slaves in this part of the state. So even if they were allowed to have slaves 1. they had no money to purchase them 2. they had no interest in owning another person and their family. 3. It was not the temperment of the people in this area.

Many of us here have a small percentage of "Mullato" ancestry (including me) as well so we would lean toward anti-slavery regardless of whether our ancestors fought for the Union army or the Confederate army. So it is not nearly as cut and dried a discussion as one might think.

The basic disagreement was states rights but it was also about economics for the South. Even though it impacted the hills very little, the Southerners who had large plantations had invested their money in their land and buying slaves from entrepreneurs in the North would lose everything. A study found that the entire costs of the lands and money used for buying slaves could have been paid to the South and compared to the cost of the Civil War everyone would have saved money.

The issue for Kentucky comes down to money..........if was far far more profitable to sell cotton directly to European mills , than to sell it to northern mills ...........Kentucky was just a border state that had many financial issues

C J Wyatt III
01-01-2017, 10:13 PM
Coincidentally, my ancestors were right across the border in Tippah County, Mississippi. Which is the county in light green, second one in from the top right.

My 3rd great grandfather John Wyatt and his family with his second wife, were in the neighboring Tishomingo County in the 1840s. We lose track of him in McNairy County TN in the 1850s. so one task for me is to located his death and burial if possible. I have not seen any evidence of him owning slaves. On the other hand, he probably was barely passing and always seemed to be moving to the frontier,

Jack Wyatt

rms2
01-01-2017, 11:49 PM
Nice discussion of the Civil War, its impact on the South, and its aftermath. Both my dad's and mom's families, although they fought for different sides, suffered tremendously as a consequence of the war.

I don't share the modern disdain for the Confederacy; I was raised to look upon on Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and J.E.B. Stuart as heroes. I certainly don't think southerners "got what they deserved": after all, they were the heirs of the age-old institution of slavery, not its inventors. Northerners lived in an environment in which slavery was not practical; their rejection of it was less the product of northern moral superiority than it was due to the fact that slavery was simply less of a temptation for them. Northerners being proud of rejecting slavery was like a blind man being proud of his ability to avoid ogling women in bikinis. When a certain vice is not really a practical option, avoiding it is hardly a virtue. It's easy for a eunuch to avoid fornication.

GoldenHind
01-02-2017, 12:15 AM
I have always thought that if the sole issue in the Civil War was whether or not to abolish slavery, neither side would have had enough volunteers to field an army.

Apologies for continuing the off topic discussion.

vettor
01-02-2017, 01:33 AM
Nice discussion of the Civil War, its impact on the South, and its aftermath. Both my dad's and mom's families, although they fought for different sides, suffered tremendously as a consequence of the war.

I don't share the modern disdain for the Confederacy; I was raised to look upon on Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and J.E.B. Stuart as heroes. I certainly don't think southerners "got what they deserved": after all, they were the heirs of the age-old institution of slavery, not its inventors. Northerners lived in an environment in which slavery was not practical; their rejection of it was less the product of northern moral superiority than it was due to the fact that slavery was simply less of a temptation for them. Northerners being proud of rejecting slavery was like a blind man being proud of his ability to avoid ogling women in bikinis. When a certain vice is not really a practical option, avoiding it is hardly a virtue. It's easy for a eunuch to avoid fornication.

I only got interested when a relative of mine stated that one of our relatives - Clemente Zanetti from South-Tyrol Italy ....fought for the confederacy in, IIRC a North-Carolina regiment............I am still trying to find out if it was legitimate.

In April 1861, there where 7000 Italians ( men , women and children ) in the USA ..............1800 fought for the Union and 1060 fought for the Confederacy.
Of course none where slave owners.
90% where from south Italy and where sent via the Bourbon King of south Italy and where called Bourbons in the war.

In regards to the Civil war and the war on state rights ( not the slavery issue )................as of today , the confederacy has won the war...........states still have their individual liberties something that the North of Lincoln times tried to reign in ( aiming for a more central form of government. )

MitchellSince1893
01-02-2017, 01:55 AM
Lincoln's main goal at the start of the War was maintain the Union.

Interesting fact about Emancipation Proclamation of 1 Jan 1863 is that it was almost 2 years after the start of the War, and it
applied only to slaves in Confederate-held lands; it did not apply to those in the four slave states that were not in rebellion (Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, and Missouri, which were unnamed), nor to Tennessee (unnamed but occupied by Union troops since 1862) and lower Louisiana (also under occupation), and specifically excluded those counties of Virginia soon to form the state of West Virginia. Also specifically excluded (by name) were some regions already controlled by the Union army. Emancipation in those places would come after separate state actions and/or the December 1865 ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment, which made slavery and indentured servitude, except for those duly convicted of a crime, illegal everywhere subject to United States jurisdiction


Because it was issued under the President's authority to suppress rebellion (war powers), it necessarily excluded areas not in rebellion.

JMcB
01-02-2017, 03:39 AM
Nice discussion of the Civil War, its impact on the South, and its aftermath. Both my dad's and mom's families, although they fought for different sides, suffered tremendously as a consequence of the war.

I don't share the modern disdain for the Confederacy; I was raised to look upon on Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and J.E.B. Stuart as heroes. I certainly don't think southerners "got what they deserved": after all, they were the heirs of the age-old institution of slavery, not its inventors. Northerners lived in an environment in which slavery was not practical; their rejection of it was less the product of northern moral superiority than it was due to the fact that slavery was simply less of a temptation for them. Northerners being proud of rejecting slavery was like a blind man being proud of his ability to avoid ogling women in bikinis. When a certain vice is not really a practical option, avoiding it is hardly a virtue. It's easy for a eunuch to avoid fornication.

As the son of a southern West Pointer in our house those men were admired for the military attributes, if not their cause. Which was on the wrong side of history. Unless of course, you believe the South deserved to win.

rms2
01-02-2017, 03:53 AM
As the son of a southern West Pointer in our house those men were admired for the military attributes, if not their cause. Which was on the wrong side of history. Unless of course, you believe the South deserved to win.

You said southerners "deserved what they got", as if they were uniquely responsible for the institution of slavery. That is simply not true. Southerners of that time inherited the institution of slavery. It was part of the world into which they were born. They did not invent it.

Do you believe they deserved to be singled out for punishment for a practice which was age old by the time they were born?

Besides that, slavery was not the sole issue over which the Civil War was fought.

I don't feel responsible for slavery, nor do I feel my ancestors were especially immoral for being children of the era into which they were born.

JMcB
01-02-2017, 04:28 AM
My 3rd great grandfather John Wyatt and his family with his second wife, were in the neighboring Tishomingo County in the 1840s. We lose track of him in McNairy County TN in the 1850s. so one task for me is to located his death and burial if possible. I have not seen any evidence of him owning slaves. On the other hand, he probably was barely passing and always seemed to be moving to the frontier,

Jack Wyatt



Who knows Jack, perhaps our families crossed paths in the old days.

When it comes to slave ownership, unless you have some family information you're probably not going to know unless it shows up in a census report somewhere. I really had no idea whether or not my family owned any slaves until I found an 1800 census report that showed that my 4th Great Grandfather owned a female slave. On the other hand that same census showed that his father didn't have any. To be honest, I wasn't really looking for that particular information but I can't say that I was surprised because my paternal line has lived in the South since 1772. I later found out through an old local newspaper article that one of my Great Great Grandfathers, who apparently was very wealthy and own 20,000 acres of land, had quite a few slaves and reputedly fathered scores of a children with them.

I personally think that the impact of slavery was far more widespread in the South then people like to admit . For example, you might hear it said that only such and such a percentage of Southerners actually owned slaves. To whatever degree those numbers are correct, they still leave you with a false impression because usually only the head of households were listed as slave owners. Take my case, my 4th Great Grandfather is listed as owning one slave but the impact of the institution is under reported because he had a wife and eight children, so ten different people had knowledge of and an association with the institution, in his household alone. And the same multiplier would apply across the board where slave holding households were concern.

And it's ubiquitousness extended even beyond that, as can be seen below:


Even more revealing was their attachment to slavery. Among the enlistees in 1861, slightly more than one in ten owned slaves personally. This compared favorably to the Confederacy as a whole, in which one in every twenty white persons owned slaves. Yet more than one in every four volunteers that first year lived with parents who were slaveholders. Combining those soldiers who owned slaves with those soldiers who lived with slaveholding family members, the proportion rose to 36 percent. That contrasted starkly with the 24.9 percent, or one in every four households, that owned slaves in the South, based on the 1860 census. Thus, volunteers in 1861 were 42 percent more likely to own slaves themselves or to live with family members who owned slaves than the general population.

The attachment to slavery, though, was even more powerful. One in every ten volunteers in 1861 did not own slaves themselves but lived in households headed by non family members who did. This figure, combined with the 36 percent who owned or whose family members owned slaves, indicated that almost one of every two 1861 recruits lived with slaveholders. Nor did the direct exposure stop there. Untold numbers of enlistees rented land from, sold crops to, or worked for slaveholders. In the final tabulation, the vast majority of the volunteers of 1861 had a direct connection to slavery. For slaveholder and nonslaveholder alike, slavery lay at the heart of the Confederate nation. The fact that their paper notes frequently depicted scenes of slaves demonstrated the institution’s central role and symbolic value to the Confederacy.

More than half the officers in 1861 owned slaves, and none of them lived with family members who were slaveholders. Their substantial median combined wealth ($5,600) and average combined wealth ($8,979) mirrored that high proportion of slave ownership. By comparison, only one in twelve enlisted men owned slaves, but when those who lived with family slave owners were included, the ratio exceeded one in three. That was 40 percent above the tally for all households in the Old South. With the inclusion of those who resided in nonfamily slaveholding households, the direct exposure to bondage among enlisted personnel was four of every nine.

-- General Lee's Army: From Victory to Collapse, by Joseph Glatthaar



And:



In the vast majority of cases, each household (termed a “family” in the 1860 Census, even when the group consisted of unrelated people living in the same residence) that owned slaves had only one slaveholder listed, the head of the household. It is thus possible to compare the number of slaveholders in a given state to the numbers of families/households, and get a rough estimation of the proportion of free households that owned at least one slave. The numbers varies considerably, ranging from (roughly) 1 in 5 in Arkansas to nearly 1 in 2 in Mississippi and South Carolina. In the eleven states that formed the Confederacy, there were in aggregate just over 1 million free households, which between them represented 316,632 slaveholders—meaning that somewhere between one-quarter and one-third of households in the Confederate States counted among its assets at least one human being.


13414


“Ninety-eight percent of Texas Confederate soldiers never owned a slave.” -- (A Hat Tip to Mitchell)

https://deadconfederates.com/2011/04/28/ninety-eight-percent-of-texas-confederate-soldiers-never-owned-a-slave/



Regardless of where you stand, an interesting look into the past.

rms2
01-02-2017, 04:34 AM
I wonder about the accuracy of the various stats on slavery. I remember reading in the past that only about 3% of the southern population owned slaves. That makes sense to me, given the frequency of the black population.

It's tough to get accurate stats, given the nature of modern revisionism.

vettor
01-02-2017, 05:01 AM
I wonder about the accuracy of the various stats on slavery. I remember reading in the past that only about 3% of the southern population owned slaves. That makes sense to me, given the frequency of the black population.

It's tough to get accurate stats, given the nature of modern revisionism.

Most southern whites where so poor and especially the recently arrived Irish that they also picked cotton on plantations for a salary .

vettor
01-02-2017, 05:04 AM
Who knows Jack, perhaps our families crossed paths in the old days.

When it comes to slave ownership, unless you have some family information you're probably not going to know unless it shows up in a census report somewhere. I really had no idea whether or not my family owned any slaves until I found an 1800 census report that showed that my 4th Great Grandfather owned a female slave. On the other hand that same census showed that his father didn't have any. To be honest, I wasn't really looking for that particular information but I can't say that I was surprised because my paternal line has lived in the South since 1772. I later found out through an old local newspaper article that one of my Great Great Grandfathers, who apparently was very wealthy and own 20,000 acres of land, had quite a few slaves and reputedly fathered scores of a children with them.

I personally think that the impact of slavery was far more widespread in the South then people like to admit . For example, you might hear it said that only such and such a percentage of Southerners actually owned slaves. To whatever degree those numbers are correct, they still leave you with a false impression because usually only the head of households were listed as slave owners. Take my case, my 4th Great Grandfather is listed as owning one slave but the impact of the institution is under reported because he had a wife and eight children, so ten different people had knowledge of and an association with the institution, in his household alone. And the same multiplier would apply across the board where slave holding households were concern.

And it's ubiquitousness extended even beyond that, as can be seen below:


Even more revealing was their attachment to slavery. Among the enlistees in 1861, slightly more than one in ten owned slaves personally. This compared favorably to the Confederacy as a whole, in which one in every twenty white persons owned slaves. Yet more than one in every four volunteers that first year lived with parents who were slaveholders. Combining those soldiers who owned slaves with those soldiers who lived with slaveholding family members, the proportion rose to 36 percent. That contrasted starkly with the 24.9 percent, or one in every four households, that owned slaves in the South, based on the 1860 census. Thus, volunteers in 1861 were 42 percent more likely to own slaves themselves or to live with family members who owned slaves than the general population.

The attachment to slavery, though, was even more powerful. One in every ten volunteers in 1861 did not own slaves themselves but lived in households headed by non family members who did. This figure, combined with the 36 percent who owned or whose family members owned slaves, indicated that almost one of every two 1861 recruits lived with slaveholders. Nor did the direct exposure stop there. Untold numbers of enlistees rented land from, sold crops to, or worked for slaveholders. In the final tabulation, the vast majority of the volunteers of 1861 had a direct connection to slavery. For slaveholder and nonslaveholder alike, slavery lay at the heart of the Confederate nation. The fact that their paper notes frequently depicted scenes of slaves demonstrated the institution’s central role and symbolic value to the Confederacy.

More than half the officers in 1861 owned slaves, and none of them lived with family members who were slaveholders. Their substantial median combined wealth ($5,600) and average combined wealth ($8,979) mirrored that high proportion of slave ownership. By comparison, only one in twelve enlisted men owned slaves, but when those who lived with family slave owners were included, the ratio exceeded one in three. That was 40 percent above the tally for all households in the Old South. With the inclusion of those who resided in nonfamily slaveholding households, the direct exposure to bondage among enlisted personnel was four of every nine.

-- General Lee's Army: From Victory to Collapse, by Joseph Glatthaar



And:



In the vast majority of cases, each household (termed a “family” in the 1860 Census, even when the group consisted of unrelated people living in the same residence) that owned slaves had only one slaveholder listed, the head of the household. It is thus possible to compare the number of slaveholders in a given state to the numbers of families/households, and get a rough estimation of the proportion of free households that owned at least one slave. The numbers varies considerably, ranging from (roughly) 1 in 5 in Arkansas to nearly 1 in 2 in Mississippi and South Carolina. In the eleven states that formed the Confederacy, there were in aggregate just over 1 million free households, which between them represented 316,632 slaveholders—meaning that somewhere between one-quarter and one-third of households in the Confederate States counted among its assets at least one human being.


13414


“Ninety-eight percent of Texas Confederate soldiers never owned a slave.” -- (A Hat Tip to Mitchell)

https://deadconfederates.com/2011/04/28/ninety-eight-percent-of-texas-confederate-soldiers-never-owned-a-slave/



Regardless of where you stand, an interesting look into the past.

so only 5.6% of southern white households owned slaves

vettor
01-02-2017, 05:09 AM
As the son of a southern West Pointer in our house those men were admired for the military attributes, if not their cause. Which was on the wrong side of history. Unless of course, you believe the South deserved to win.

One must come to a conclusion that slavery has always been wrong and that slavery began in the ancient times , all races performed slavery on other races ..............slavery is still in our society today................

The problem is that we today, blame people for what their ancestors did yesterday............clearly this is wrong

JMcB
01-02-2017, 01:28 PM
You said southerners "deserved what they got", as if they were uniquely responsible for the institution of slavery. That is simply not true. Southerners of that time inherited the institution of slavery. It was part of the world into which they were born. They did not invent it.

Do you believe they deserved to be singled out for punishment for a practice which was age old by the time they were born?

Besides that, slavery was not the sole issue over which the Civil War was fought.

I don't feel responsible for slavery, nor do I feel my ancestors were especially immoral for being children of the era into which they were born.

Well, I think that if you look again at what I wrote, you will see that I never said, nor did I imply that: "they were uniquely responsible for the institution of slavery." What I do believe is that they deserved to lose because they were fighting to uphold an institution that was brutally unjust and deserved to be abolished. And I would think that it's safe to say that our Country is far better off because they lost.

And while I understand that they were born into a time and place where slavery was generally accepted, it certainly was not without it detractors. So I'm not going to give them a pass and just say, "O well, that's how things were. They're not responsible for what they did," because they were. Does the era they lived in lessen their culpability, yes. Does it absolve them of their sins, I would say no.


<< Do you believe they deserved to be "singled" out for punishment for a practice which was age old by the time they were born? >>

No I don't because the premise is absurd. However, I do feel that they can be rightly criticized for standing in the way of progress and hindering the advancement of human decency.


<< Besides that, slavery was not the sole issue over which the Civil War was fought. >>

Let's not kid ourselves, it was the driving force behind the dispute. All you have to do is look at the various Secession documents to see that's the case.

As Joseph Glatthaar says:

"Their official justifications for leaving the Union offer unshakable proof that their principal motive was to protect and preserve slavery."

He continues on by quoting from those documents which clinches the case. (See below)

General Lee's Army, From Victory to Collapse By Joseph Glatthaar - Ch 2 Pgs 14 & 15
https://books.google.com/books/about/General_Lee_s_Army.html?id=ejRERplU3HkC


<< I don't feel responsible for slavery, nor do I feel my ancestors were especially immoral for being children of the era into which they were born >>

I certainly don't feel responsible for slavery. I wasn't there and I had nothing to do with it. However, I'm not going to give my ancestors a pass just because that's the era they lived in. They were a deeply religious people and they should have known better. There were plenty of voices crying out in the wilderness, calling for the abolition of slavery and they should have put their self interests aside and listened to them.

rms2
01-02-2017, 01:36 PM
. . .

Nevertheless, they got what they deserved because their way of life was indefensible and morally bankrupt and it had to come to an end.

. . .

The above is what I most strongly disagree with. I don't think "they got what they deserved". By far most of them had nothing to do with slavery, and even those who did were the children of their time. Slavery had already been around for thousands of years before they were born; they did not invent it nor can they be held responsible for not having been blessed with 21st century hindsight.

This is not really something we can freely discuss here, because we cannot be completely candid and talk about all the factors involved. We should probably just drop it.

JMcB
01-02-2017, 02:36 PM
The above is what I most strongly disagree with. I don't think "they got what they deserved". By far most of them had nothing to do with slavery, and even those who did were the children of their time. Slavery had already been around for thousands of years before they were born; they did not invent it nor can they be held responsible for not having been blessed with 21st century hindsight.

This is not really something we can freely discuss here, because we cannot be completely candid and talk about all the factors involved. We should probably just drop it.

They didn't need to wait for 21st century hindsight, all they had to do was listen to the voice of their contemporaries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline

Nevertheless, you are right, we've come full circle and we're back where we started from. So we'll have to agree to disagree, agreeably .

Take it easy.

rms2
01-05-2017, 12:38 PM
I see you went back and edited your last post to make it argumentative long after the original, which was more conciliatory and seemed to be about bringing the argument to a close. And you even went back and edited the one before it a day after it was originally posted!

When I mentioned that mid-19th century southerners did not have the benefit of 21st century hindsight, I was well aware of the abolitionist movement. I don't think its existence changes a thing really. Most southerners did not own slaves and thus had nothing to abolish nor any reason to get "what they deserved". Even those who did own slaves, as I mentioned before more than once, did not invent slavery; it was part of the world into which they were born.

It really is impossible to carry on a discussion about this subject in a venue like this one, because it would require a degree of candor impossible here. Besides, I think it has already occupied sufficient space on this thread, a thread not really intended for it.

JMcB
01-05-2017, 02:49 PM
Actually, all I did was add some corroborating information that I came upon soon thereafter. Most of it coming from Glatthaar's book which I am now reading and is very nicely done. And while I meant it to be more substantiative than argumentative and I don't really think it changed the tone or the jist of the original. In retrospect, I can see how you might not see it that way and for that I apologize.

rms2
01-28-2017, 02:04 AM
My closest Stevens 111-marker match (109/111) got his Big Y results today. I directed him to Alex Williamson's Instructions page so that he can submit his raw data for analysis. FTDNA now shows him as R-BY166, same as me (naturally).

rms2
01-29-2017, 01:13 AM
My closest Stevens 111-marker match (109/111) got his Big Y results today. I directed him to Alex Williamson's Instructions page so that he can submit his raw data for analysis. FTDNA now shows him as R-BY166, same as me (naturally).

Well, he's on Alex's Big Tree now. Here's the link, if you're interested:

The Big Tree: R-DF41/S524 (http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=7).

You have to scroll down and to the right to find us (Stevens 59080 and Stevens 522600).

vettor
01-29-2017, 05:51 PM
I see you went back and edited your last post to make it argumentative long after the original, which was more conciliatory and seemed to be about bringing the argument to a close. And you even went back and edited the one before it a day after it was originally posted!

When I mentioned that mid-19th century southerners did not have the benefit of 21st century hindsight, I was well aware of the abolitionist movement. I don't think its existence changes a thing really. Most southerners did not own slaves and thus had nothing to abolish nor any reason to get "what they deserved". Even those who did own slaves, as I mentioned before more than once, did not invent slavery; it was part of the world into which they were born.

It really is impossible to carry on a discussion about this subject in a venue like this one, because it would require a degree of candor impossible here. Besides, I think it has already occupied sufficient space on this thread, a thread not really intended for it.

when talking about slavery in the USA, one should go into the important details and not summarise . The summary is a farce and is clearly led by dishonest people.

Delaware ( a northern state ) was the first to introduce slavery in the USA ....and the last to stop slavery.

Virginia introduced it in 1806 .............with rules stating that if one was born free prior to 1806 he/she can stay in Virginia as a free person , if one gained freedom after this date , that person had 1 year to leave the state permanently and if not would become a slave again.
There where thousands of black people in Virginia who where free blacks even up to , during and to the end of the civil war.
And -"An ACT to amend the several laws concerning slaves," was passed by the General Assembly on January 25, 1806, and prohibits the importation of slaves to Virginia.


NUMBER AND DISTRIBUTION OF THE FREE NEGROES IN
VIRGINIA

At the beginning of the Civil War there were in Virginia
nearly sixty thousand free negroes. 1 This number was far
in excess of the number of free colored persons in any other
of the great slave States, being about double the number in
North Carolina, the State which, south of Virginia, had the
largest free colored population. It was in excess of the
free negro population in any State, slave or free, with the
exception of Maryland. In 1860 the entire number of
negroes in New York and New England combined was but
little greater than the number of free negroes in Virginia.

there where also northern slave states like Missouri and Kentucky who bred black slaves , did not need them for there lead and iron mines and sold them onto southern plantation holders via the town of Miridian Mississippi......................Nathan Bedford Forrest was one person who made his money via the system of buying northern slaves and selling them to the southern plantations.

rms2
01-29-2017, 09:19 PM
Maybe someone could start a separate thread for a discussion of slavery in North America. Whatever the case, I won't be participating in it, and it does not really belong here.

JMcB
01-30-2017, 12:32 AM
Maybe someone could start a separate thread for a discussion of slavery in North America. Whatever the case, I won't be participating in it, and it does not really belong here.

Yes, I agree totally and I was tempted to say the same thing but I didn't feel like it was my place to do so. This is a thread about rms2's family research that unintentionally got diverted into another unrelated subject and it's time to put it to bed or move it.

rms2
02-22-2017, 12:18 AM
My second cousin and I did meet for lunch yesterday. I was half an hour late due to the horrendous I-95 traffic, part of which was due to the Christmas holiday, and part of which was due to a terrible accident at Quantico, which backed things up for miles. Anyway, we had a great time catching up, and in the end he decided to order a 111-marker y-dna test from FTDNA. We should match exactly, given that our grandfathers are brothers. Time will tell.

He and I also plan to collaborate on the family paper trail. He also told me he believes my grandfather is buried in the family plot in Metairie Cemetery in New Orleans, where his grandparents and parents and our mutual great grandfather are all buried. I did not know that, because my father could not remember where my grandfather is buried (my dad was five when my grandfather died).

My second cousin did in fact order the y-dna test early this morning and joined the Stephens DNA Project. :beerchug:

My second cousin that I mentioned above got his 111-marker test results today. They came in early: the predicted due date was 08 March. Anyway, he never signed the release form, so he isn't showing up among my matches or among my matches' matches, so I emailed him and asked him to sign the release form electronically. That can be done easily from his Y-DNA Matches page. I hope he does it soon. Meanwhile, I checked his markers against mine manually, and it looks like we match exactly, 111/111. I am pretty tired, though, so I might have missed a difference, but I don't think so.

His paternal grandfather and mine were brothers, so an exact match is not surprising. The photos below show (left to right) his grandfather, Miles Gordon Stevens, and my grandfather, Clifton LeViers Stevens. Miles' photo is pretty clear. Wish I had a better photo of my grandfather.

14170 14171

MitchellSince1893
02-22-2017, 12:27 AM
Congrats to you but I'm now a little concerned about my own 111 marker test. Folks in my batch 712 and those like your cousin with dates after 712 have their results already. Hopefully nothing wrong with the sample.


EDIT:
Results for your Y-DNA testing have been delayed. We have updated your predicted completion date, and action by you is not usually required. Note that predicted dates are an estimate and subject to lab volume and quality control.that's not good, my date has now been moved back 2 weeks.

rms2
02-22-2017, 12:37 AM
Congrats to you but I'm now a little concerned about my own 111 marker test. Folks in my batch 712 and those like your cousin with dates after 712 have their results already. Hopefully nothing wrong with the sample.


EDIT: that's not good, my date has now been moved back 2 weeks.

I would call them and ask them if they need a new sample from you. Sometimes FTDNA waits too long, and you have to light a fire under them.

hannah-lena
02-22-2017, 09:08 AM
so how long did the 111-marker test take? waiting for my dads 67-marker ...:biggrin1:

RobertCasey
02-22-2017, 03:21 PM
When looking at the backlog of orders under the L226 project, most of the YDNA products were pushed out a week or so - stating unusual demand for testing. There seems to be a spike of testing in our project: two new Big Ys, twelve L226 SNP packs and ten new members at 67 markers in the last two weeks. It looks like there is a spike in testing for our project - hopefully this trend will continue similar to the huge atDNA spike at Ancestry.com. If the increase in volume does increase, hopefully FTDNA can get more equipment/staff to meet the new demand (even without sale prices).

By the end of next month, I will be able to reliably increase the charting of R-L226 from 75 % to 80 % with these new test results. The last 10 % will take a long time as testing within L226 which is somewhat biased (not random testing but testing driven by many factors). Pretty exciting times for those haplogroups that getting well tested and that are more fortunate to be more prolific vs. those unfortunate lines that are more daughtered out or less tested. There are probably 50 to 100 haplogroups under R-L21 that are pretty similar to R-L226. But then there are hundreds of smaller haplogroups without the larger sample sizes (due to daughtering out or just not well tested to date).

rms2
02-22-2017, 03:58 PM
so how long did the 111-marker test take? waiting for my dads 67-marker ...:biggrin1:

He ordered the test Christmas Eve, and his results came in yesterday, 21 February, so nearly two months. But he got all 111 markers - bang! - at once, which is different from the way mine came in.

MitchellSince1893
02-22-2017, 05:36 PM
I would call them and ask them if they need a new sample from you. Sometimes FTDNA waits too long, and you have to light a fire under them.

I put a ticket in asking why it was delayed

rms2
02-22-2017, 05:49 PM
I put a ticket in asking why it was delayed

Phone calls work better. That has been my experience anyway.

rms2
02-22-2017, 05:50 PM
My second cousin signed the release form, so now he is showing up as an exact 111-marker match for me. He also joined the R1b-41-1123 Project. B)

MitchellSince1893
02-22-2017, 06:00 PM
Phone calls work better. That has been my experience anyway.
They said first sample failed so they are using 2nd sample. If that fails new kit will be mailed.

rms2
02-22-2017, 06:08 PM
They said first sample failed so they are using 2nd sample. If that fails new kit will be mailed.

I forget which test it was for, but I went through that some few years back. Eventually they sent me a new kit. My sample had been through a number of successful tests already, and they really just needed more dna.

MitchellSince1893
02-22-2017, 06:28 PM
I forget which test it was for, but I went through that some few years back. Eventually they sent me a new kit. My sample had been through a number of successful tests already, and they really just needed more dna.

This was a brand new sample...used first for this test.

rms2
03-19-2017, 08:03 PM
One of my closest Stevens matches (108/111) just ordered the Big Y today. I'm happy about that. I'll be glad when he gets his results and gets the analysis from Alex Williamson and from YFull.

I wish Big Y results only took a week or two.

MitchellSince1893
03-29-2017, 12:17 PM
FYI my 111 marker test results finally came in. I'm GD=0 with my father. At least I will now appear on your red haired STR page now.

rms2
03-29-2017, 02:19 PM
FYI my 111 marker test results finally came in. I'm GD=0 with my father. At least I will now appear on your red haired STR page now.

Super!

I just picked up a new Ancestry DNA match this morning: 239 cM's. The lady is a 1st cousin once removed. Her grandfather, James Holmes Stevens Jr., is my great grandfather. B)

JMcB
03-29-2017, 04:43 PM
One of my closest Stevens matches (108/111) just ordered the Big Y today. I'm happy about that. I'll be glad when he gets his results and gets the analysis from Alex Williamson and from YFull.

I wish Big Y results only took a week or two.

While I certainly can't guarantee similar results, nevertheless, here's what happened in my case.

Ordered: Big Y11/21/2016 --- Big Y Results Completed: 12/5/2016

rms2
03-29-2017, 10:18 PM
While I certainly can't guarantee similar results, nevertheless, here's what happened in my case.

Ordered: Big Y11/21/2016 --- Big Y Results Completed: 12/5/2016

That was fast. I hope his are as fast.

joandavis53
10-21-2017, 08:34 PM
My name is Joan (Stevens) Davis. I have had my DNA tested but just through Ancestry. I believe that Amos Stevens of Crawford County OHIO was my 3X Great Grandfather, but I neverhad proof of that. My 2X Great Grandfather was John Stevens. John was married to Mary (Ackley) Slaughter and they lived their married life in St. Joseph Twp. Williams County OHIO. I am new to this site and I don't understand what you are talking about with your DNA testing. I am interested in the Stevens family tree. Thanks Joan Stevens Davis.

rms2
10-21-2017, 09:19 PM
My name is Joan (Stevens) Davis. I have had my DNA tested but just through Ancestry. I believe that Amos Stevens of Crawford County OHIO was my 3X Great Grandfather, but I neverhad proof of that. My 2X Great Grandfather was John Stevens. John was married to Mary (Ackley) Slaughter and they lived their married life in St. Joseph Twp. Williams County OHIO. I am new to this site and I don't understand what you are talking about with your DNA testing. I am interested in the Stevens family tree. Thanks Joan Stevens Davis.

You should be related to me then, Joan, because I am pretty sure Amos' parents, Augustine "Augustus" Stevens and Sophia Young, are my ancestors, too.

Is that your Ancestry username, joandavis53?

Klsbloom
06-09-2018, 06:01 PM
I just stumbled onto this forum last night and I am fascinated by all the work being done on the Stephens/Stevens line. I am female so my DNA test won’t be much help but I will throw some of my Stevens information in here for consideration. I have not read all of the threads so if this is duplicating any information, my apologies. My ggg grandfather was Augustin Y. Stevens. According to census records, he was born in about 1791 in Pennsylvania. He married a Francis who was born in MD. I have seen her maiden name listed as Jewell but have not found a marriage record so I cannot verify that. They were in Washington County, Ohio in 1850 with 4 daughters but based on later census records, I am pretty sure he also had at least one older son, Vachel. In 1854, his daughter, Mary Ann, married my gg grandfather, Robert Conner, from Scotland and soon after they all moved to Crawford County, IN. His oldest daughter, born in 1820, was named Sophia. I am wondering if and how he might be related to Augustine and Sophia (Young) Stevens.

rms2
06-09-2018, 10:56 PM
I just stumbled onto this forum last night and I am fascinated by all the work being done on the Stephens/Stevens line. I am female so my DNA test won’t be much help but I will throw some of my Stevens information in here for consideration. I have not read all of the threads so if this is duplicating any information, my apologies. My ggg grandfather was Augustin Y. Stevens. According to census records, he was born in about 1791 in Pennsylvania. He married a Francis who was born in MD. I have seen her maiden name listed as Jewell but have not found a marriage record so I cannot verify that. They were in Washington County, Ohio in 1850 with 4 daughters but based on later census records, I am pretty sure he also had at least one older son, Vachel. In 1854, his daughter, Mary Ann, married my gg grandfather, Robert Conner, from Scotland and soon after they all moved to Crawford County, IN. His oldest daughter, born in 1820, was named Sophia. I am wondering if and how he might be related to Augustine and Sophia (Young) Stevens.

I'm pretty sure we are related, but I don't know how. There are several mentions of a Vachel Stevens in the genealogical report I got from Joan Peake in May of 2016. I don't see how he is related to me, but I'm pretty sure he must be.

Here's what I have.

The following comes from the Josiah V. Thompson Journals, 28 volumes; Pennsylvania Room, Uniontown Library, Uniontown, PA.

Volume 25, page 59:



She says her grandmother was daughter of Elisha & Sarah Stevens see b 24 p 601 where I have Elisha Stevens, son of Dr Benjamin Stevens & his wife Sophia Peairs, daughter of Elisha Peairs & Elizabeth Jack & also see b 8 p 46 where on Sept 21, 1922 Mrs Sarah Axton then 82 wrongfully included Eliza among the children of her grandmother Nancy (see b 24 p 601) Eliza is daughter of Elisha Stevens, son of Dr Benj Stevens & Sophia Peairs) see for Elisha Peairs in his will names as his daughter Nancy's children the other 5 named by Mrs Axton, & her mother by 2d husband was born in 1814 & Eliza was not born until 1823 or 1824. I recall that Elisha Peairs left his farm to his youngest child Rachel & she afterwards married 1st Vachel Stevens & 2d Joshua Gibbons & Albert Gaddis said R.M. Modisette got the present Hugh Rankin farm from Jno M. Austin & I am now sure that his wife who was Priscilla Stevens got this farm from her mother Rachel Stevens - Gibbons. Make slip to get old title deeds from W. Ewing Rankin & wills & deeds fr Rachel at C.H. & go after Austin & Modisette bibles & lines

Volume 27, page 218:



He did not find any wills of Harry Stevens & Vachel Stevens. Make slips to look for Harry's will at Wheeling WVA (also for Elisha) & to look at Washington Pa for Vachel's or for settlement of his estate at Uniontown, Pa.


Volume 27 page 221:



See what [faded line] & refer to his will & see if he didn't leave his farm to his youngest child Rachel who married 1st Vachel Stevens & 2d Joshua Gibbons & see if she conveyed it & to whom or made a will & trace down to date & locate. I ate a pig's foot for lunch today & counted 32 bones in it. A skeleton from the g.y. [unreadable word] in one [unreadable word] one of a miner's & scared him so bad that they could not get him to go back any more


Augustin/Augustine/Auguston is a pretty common first name in my family, or at least it was.

Klsbloom
06-10-2018, 03:55 PM
I think they are different Vachels. Mine was born in about 1822 and married a Charlotte in Ohio. He died in 1896 in Louisville, KY. It appears that there were several Vachel Stevenses. Also many Augustines, Benjamins, Sophias, etc. in the Stevens lines. Apparently, originality in naming their children was not a strong suit!

rms2
06-10-2018, 04:58 PM
I think they are different Vachels. Mine was born in about 1822 and married a Charlotte in Ohio. He died in 1896 in Louisville, KY. It appears that there were several Vachel Stevenses. Also many Augustines, Benjamins, Sophias, etc. in the Stevens lines. Apparently, originality in naming their children was not a strong suit!

No doubt, but that isn't and wasn't a common first name. Wish I had all those folks sorted out, but there were a lot of them, and they were prolific, which is both a blessing and a curse.

rms2
08-16-2018, 07:44 PM
A second cousin of mine who is already an exact 111-marker y-dna match for me just ordered the Family Finder test and an upgrade to the Big Y-500 test today.

His grandfather and mine were brothers, in other words, we share a set of great grandparents.

It will be interesting to see if there is an as-yet-undiscovered y-dna SNP he and I share downstream of my current terminal SNP.

rms2
08-31-2018, 09:17 PM
I've been communicating with a second cousin (once removed) of mine (his father and my grandfather were first cousins) for the last month or so. I came right out and asked him to order a y-dna test while FTDNA's summer sale is on. He put me off at first, but today he emailed me and asked me for a link to the sale.

Guess I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I am hoping he'll order the Big Y-500 (he can easily afford it). I'd be thrilled even if he ordered a 37-marker test.

He'll match me. He's already an autosomal dna match for me at Ancestry.

rms2
09-07-2018, 11:19 PM
I've been communicating with a second cousin (once removed) of mine (his father and my grandfather were first cousins) for the last month or so. I came right out and asked him to order a y-dna test while FTDNA's summer sale is on. He put me off at first, but today he emailed me and asked me for a link to the sale.

Guess I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I am hoping he'll order the Big Y-500 (he can easily afford it). I'd be thrilled even if he ordered a 37-marker test.

He'll match me. He's already an autosomal dna match for me at Ancestry.

My second cousin once removed mentioned above has ordered a 37-marker y-dna test. He made a mistake at first and ordered Family Finder, but I caught it and told him he needed a y-dna test. So he called FTDNA and had them upgrade him to a 37-marker y-dna test.

I was hoping he would go for the Big Y-500, but the fact that he ordered something cheaper is probably even more of an indication that he belongs to my family than any y-dna test could ever be. ;)

Looking forward to his results. I know he'll match me, because he's already a good autosomal dna match at Ancestry.

jdean
09-07-2018, 11:35 PM
I was hoping he would go for the Big Y-500, but the fact that he ordered something cheaper is probably even more of an indication that he belongs to my family than any y-dna test could ever be. ;)

Some family traits are very ingrained : )

rms2
09-08-2018, 01:38 AM
A second cousin of mine who is already an exact 111-marker y-dna match for me just ordered the Family Finder test and an upgrade to the Big Y-500 test today.

His grandfather and mine were brothers, in other words, we share a set of great grandparents.

It will be interesting to see if there is an as-yet-undiscovered y-dna SNP he and I share downstream of my current terminal SNP.

He got his 500+ str markers this evening. I started comparing his results to mine line by line. I got about four lines beyond 111 markers before I got tired of it and gave up. We are still exact matches at least that far.

Anyone know of an easy-to-use online program for comparing 500+ markers?

No SNP test results yet, and no Family Finder. I thought Family Finder would come first.

Osiris
09-08-2018, 02:18 AM
You could just paste them into excel. Have his values in row 1 and yours in row 2 and then in row 3 have an If statement.
=if(A1=B1,0,1)

Copy that all the way to the right on row 3 and then just look for the 1. If one of you have a no read then replace the 1 with a 0. At the end do a sum.

I remember for the R1b FTDNA project someone built this massive spreadsheet to compare 67 markers for all members of the group. There's probably some good queries in there if you know Excel and can repurpose it.

rms2
09-08-2018, 03:18 AM
I took your advice, at least as far as having his results on line 1 and mine on line 2. Then I just went down the lines comparing the markers. He has a few no-calls; I have fewer of them. Except for those, he and I still match exactly at all those new markers.

His Big Y SNP results ought to be interesting.

rms2
09-29-2018, 10:37 PM
My second cousin once removed mentioned above has ordered a 37-marker y-dna test. He made a mistake at first and ordered Family Finder, but I caught it and told him he needed a y-dna test. So he called FTDNA and had them upgrade him to a 37-marker y-dna test.

I was hoping he would go for the Big Y-500, but the fact that he ordered something cheaper is probably even more of an indication that he belongs to my family than any y-dna test could ever be. ;)

Looking forward to his results. I know he'll match me, because he's already a good autosomal dna match at Ancestry.

My second cousin once removed mentioned above finally mailed his samples in to FTDNA. Phew!

rms2
10-19-2018, 12:51 PM
My second cousin once removed mentioned above has ordered a 37-marker y-dna test. He made a mistake at first and ordered Family Finder, but I caught it and told him he needed a y-dna test. So he called FTDNA and had them upgrade him to a 37-marker y-dna test.

I was hoping he would go for the Big Y-500, but the fact that he ordered something cheaper is probably even more of an indication that he belongs to my family than any y-dna test could ever be. ;)

Looking forward to his results. I know he'll match me, because he's already a good autosomal dna match at Ancestry.

The second cousin once removed mentioned above got his 37-marker y-dna str results yesterday. He matches me exactly. His father was my grandfather's first cousin.

This is another confirmation of our shared descent from the man who is my second great grandfather and his great grandfather.

I'm still hoping I can get him to do the Big Y-500. We'll see.

rms2
10-20-2018, 03:52 AM
BTW, this second cousin once removed is a retired architect. His dad, Preston Standish Stevens Sr., founded the firm Stevens and Wilkinson, which was originally known as Burge and Stevens. It designed Atlanta's Hartsfield Airport and much of downtown Atlanta. Our most recent common ancestor is James Holmes Stevens, my second great grandfather and his great grandfather.

Stevens and Wilkinson (https://stevens-wilkinson.com/?fbclid=IwAR1RYRNMevyf2hUNiulX0FWw-oRaOCUbQufpSAkqn9zCjhFrJrBO1dqFJJg)

Preston Standish Stevens Sr. was my grandfather's first cousin.

rms2
11-04-2018, 12:02 AM
My second cousin once removed, Preston Stevens, has given me permission to upgrade his kit as I see fit, so it's just a matter of coming up with the money, which, of course, is still a big deal.

rms2
11-10-2018, 09:25 PM
I probably should keep quiet about this, but I just heard from a Stevens Ancestry match who is descended from Augustine Stevens and his wife Sophia Young, whom I believe are also my ancestors. I have been trying to get hold of this guy since July, but he never responded to any of my messages until today. Today he asked which y-dna test he should order! I told him the Big Y 500 is the best but that any of the lesser tests would be fine.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, but I will tell you I prayed when I sent him that last message via Ancestry. I am grateful to God that he finally responded. Thank you, God!

I really hope he will order a test, even if I have to pay for it.

spruithean
11-10-2018, 09:28 PM
I really hope he turns out to be a match, it would be fantastic!

rms2
11-10-2018, 09:33 PM
I really hope he turns out to be a match, it would be fantastic!

Thanks! It really would. That would really narrow things down and confirm a lot that now we only believe via a preponderance of the evidence.

jdean
11-11-2018, 10:35 AM
Thanks! It really would. That would really narrow things down and confirm a lot that now we only believe via a preponderance of the evidence.

I have my fingers crossed too Rich !!!

rms2
11-11-2018, 02:33 PM
I have my fingers crossed too Rich !!!

I'm really hoping and praying he comes through and orders at least a 37-marker test. It's hard to wait!

rms2
11-15-2018, 12:19 AM
I probably should keep quiet about this, but I just heard from a Stevens Ancestry match who is descended from Augustine Stevens and his wife Sophia Young, whom I believe are also my ancestors. I have been trying to get hold of this guy since July, but he never responded to any of my messages until today. Today he asked which y-dna test he should order! I told him the Big Y 500 is the best but that any of the lesser tests would be fine.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, but I will tell you I prayed when I sent him that last message via Ancestry. I am grateful to God that he finally responded. Thank you, God!

I really hope he will order a test, even if I have to pay for it.

Once again, I have to say thank you, God! I heard this morning from the man I mentioned above. He ordered a 111-marker test from FTDNA!

Now we wait, and I hope for a match. I'm pretty sure he'll match me, but time will tell.

MitchellSince1893
11-15-2018, 03:37 PM
Once again, I have to say thank you, God! I heard this morning from the man I mentioned above. He ordered a 111-marker test from FTDNA!

Now we wait, and I hope for a match. I'm pretty sure he'll match me, but time will tell.

I know how you feel. I tried for years to make contact with descendants/relatives of my best candidate to be my mystery man paternal line great great grandfather to no avail. Then a week ago, a male line descendant of this man’s paternal grandfather agreed to do a yseq test. Like you, I am very thankful.

rms2
11-24-2018, 07:09 PM
Once again, I have to say thank you, God! I heard this morning from the man I mentioned above. He ordered a 111-marker test from FTDNA!

Now we wait, and I hope for a match. I'm pretty sure he'll match me, but time will tell.

I'd like to talk a little bit about this one while I am impatiently waiting for his results.

As I mentioned, he and I have a small (just over 9 cM's) match at Ancestry, but he and I also share matches to several of my known relatives: most of them and I have a mrca in my second great grandfather James Holmes Stevens, but a couple of them and I share a mrca in my great grandfather James Holmes Stevens Jr.

This gentleman is a descendant of Augustine Stevens and Sophia Young via their son Amos H. Stevens and his son Amos Stevens. One of my closest y-dna matches (109/111), who is also on the FGC36982 branch with me, shares with me a Family Finder match to a woman and her brother who are descendants of Augustine and Sophia via their son Amos H. Stevens and his daughter Nancy.

All of that, plus the paper trail evidence, and the repeated use of the names Augustine/Auguston and Amos in our families, makes me pretty confident that this Stevens gentleman will be a close match to me at 111 markers.

rms2
11-27-2018, 11:49 PM
My recruit has joined our small project (R1b-41-1123).

Once again, thank God!

Now I am just waiting for his results.

rms2
12-07-2018, 12:34 AM
This is a frustratingly slow-moving hobby. The recruit mentioned in the last several posts above mailed his samples off to FTDNA over a week ago. They weren't showing up on my GAP page, so I phoned FTDNA when it first opened up this morning. The rep on the phone said the samples had been received. By this afternoon that fact showed up on my GAP page at last.

That was a relief, but now I settle in for waiting on the results.

rms2
12-07-2018, 11:54 PM
It's good to have something going on with one's personal genealogy while the big time ancient dna papers seem to have dried up.

Otherwise things would be ochen skuchna (very boring), as my wife would say.

rms2
12-12-2018, 12:38 AM
My recruit has joined our small project (R1b-41-1123).

Once again, thank God!

Now I am just waiting for his results.

The (to me) very important sample of this recruit is finally in FTDNA's lab, with results predicted for sometime from 21 Jan - 04 Feb 2019. I hope they come much earlier than that and, of course, that they're accurate.

Man, I hate waiting, but I guess if I wasn't waiting for some kind of dna test results, I wouldn't know what to do with myself.

Ruderico
12-12-2018, 01:24 AM
The (to me) very important sample of this recruit is finally in FTDNA's lab, with results predicted for sometime from 21 Jan - 04 Feb 2019. I hope they come much earlier than that and, of course, that they're accurate.

Man, I hate waiting, but I guess if I wasn't waiting for some kind of dna test results, I wouldn't know what to do with myself.

I know the feeling, Iam currently waiting for my BigY result. Unfortunately my haplogroup is so rare the only significant match I'll probably have is another guy with my surname who lives in Brazil, who I already match and is also Y31991 PF4428. I suppose that as more people test in the coming years I might get another match. Maybe

rms2
12-15-2018, 12:45 AM
I'll be glad when my new recruit's results come in. I really believe he'll be a very close match to me, and I'd rather talk about that than just about anything else discussed hereabouts.

rms2
12-22-2018, 01:57 PM
My new Y-111 recruit of the last several posts, whom I cannot mention by name, except to say that he and I share the same surname, with the same spelling, also ordered Family Finder when he ordered his Y-111. Since Family Finder results come in much faster than y-dna results, my new recruit got his Family Finder results a couple of days ago.

Interestingly, he shows up as a much bigger match for me on Family Finder than he does at AncestryDNA, which I brought up in another thread in the Ancestry subforum. Apparently Ancestry uses a baffling system called Timber that reduces the size of some matches and eliminates some others. Meanwhile, FTDNA and 23andMe are roughly equivalent, though not without some differences. Anyway, this gentleman shows up as a 31 cM match for me, with a longest block of 16 cM. That's not bad.

What I find hopeful is that he also shows up as a match for my dad, my youngest son, my youngest daughter, and a female third cousin of mine on the Stevens line: a descendant of my great grandfather's sister, Sara (she had a boatload of kids). In addition, my recruit shares matches with me to two people (a brother and sister) who are also descended from Augustine Stevens and Sophia Young, but via Amos H. Stevens' daughter Nancy. Recall that this new recruit is descended from Nancy's brother Amos.

I view all these matches as indications that I am right in thinking that this Stevens gentleman will be a close match for me at 111 y-dna markers.

I wish Y-111 results came in a little faster!

spruithean
12-22-2018, 02:14 PM
I suspect things will get interesting once the Y-DNA results roll in, will he do more than Y111 at some point?

rms2
12-22-2018, 02:21 PM
I suspect things will get interesting once the Y-DNA results roll in, will he do more than Y111 at some point?

I think he will be willing, but I'm not sure how much he is prepared to spend. I and another Stevens relative, a 109/111 match who is my closest Big Y match other than a known second cousin, are willing to chip in to sponsor a Big Y-500 for him.

This is a very big deal for me, since I believe it could represent confirmation of my descent from Augustine Stevens and his wife Sophia Young. The problem that will remain is that they are apparently the grandparents of my current most distant known ancestor, Auguston Stevens. Figuring out which of their sons was my Auguston's father will then be the great genealogical task. However, I welcome that task. It's way better than the stumbling around in the dark I had been doing in the years before dna testing began to unravel this mystery.

rms2
12-29-2018, 10:54 PM
Aaarrrggghhh! So tired of waiting!

Genetic genealogy requires patience, and I lack patience.

That's one thing I was hoping for in this field as time went on: faster results.

rms2
01-04-2019, 11:53 PM
I probably should keep quiet about this, but I just heard from a Stevens Ancestry match who is descended from Augustine Stevens and his wife Sophia Young, whom I believe are also my ancestors. I have been trying to get hold of this guy since July, but he never responded to any of my messages until today. Today he asked which y-dna test he should order! I told him the Big Y 500 is the best but that any of the lesser tests would be fine.

I don't care what anyone else thinks, but I will tell you I prayed when I sent him that last message via Ancestry. I am grateful to God that he finally responded. Thank you, God!

I really hope he will order a test, even if I have to pay for it.

Thank you, God!

And I mean that sincerely. No kidding.

The man I mentioned above, with my surname, got his Y-111 results today. He matches me 110/111!

Thank God!

This represents a huge breakthrough for me, which gets me back to Augustine Stevens, who was born about 1750, probably in Maryland, and his wife Sophia Young, who was about the same age.

The remaining problem, as I mentioned before, is that Augustine and Sophia are apparently the grandparents of my current mdka Auguston Stevens, so I still need to figure out which of their sons is his father. But at least now I have a list of names to investigate. Besides this new match's ancestor Amos H. Stevens, the other sons of Augustine and Sophia are Augustine Jr., Jacob, John, and Benjamin. I just have to figure out which of them was the father of my Auguston, and that's a lot better than having no clue at all.

Thank God for y-dna testing and Family Tree DNA.

Here's a graphic that shows the connection. My new match's line is over on the right. Mine is on the far left (my grandfather is Clifton LeViers Stevens).

28142

JMcB
01-05-2019, 01:01 AM
Thank you, God!

And I mean that sincerely. No kidding.

The man I mentioned above, with my surname, got his Y-111 results today. He matches me 110/111!

Thank God!

This represents a huge breakthrough for me, which gets me back to Augustine Stevens, who was born about 1750, probably in Maryland, and his wife Sophia Young, who was about the same age.

The remaining problem, as I mentioned before, is that Augustine and Sophia are apparently the grandparents of my current mdka Auguston Stevens, so I still need to figure out which of their sons is his father. But at least now I have a list of names to investigate. Besides this new match's ancestor Amos H. Stevens, the other sons of Augustine and Sophia are Augustine Jr., Jacob, John, and Benjamin. I just have to figure out which of them was the father of my Auguston, and that's a lot better than having no clue at all.

Thank God for y-dna testing and Family Tree DNA.

Here's a graphic that shows the connection. My new match's line is over on the right. Mine is on the far left (my grandfather is Clifton LeViers Stevens).

28142

Congratulations, that is Big News! And by the way, I love you chart. Well done!

David Mc
01-05-2019, 01:11 AM
Big congrats, rms2. Wonderful news!

rms2
01-05-2019, 01:36 AM
Thank you all. Needless to say, I am thrilled. This is one of the best days of my life. Thank God!

jdean
01-05-2019, 12:35 PM
Thank you all. Needless to say, I am thrilled. This is one of the best days of my life. Thank God!

Marvellous news Rich !!!

rms2
01-06-2019, 12:25 AM
Now I'm bugging the guy about the Big Y-500. Hope I don't frighten him away!

spruithean
01-06-2019, 02:08 PM
Congrats! That's a big breakthrough!

Hopefully he doesn't get frightened away by Big-Y. I certainly hope he doesn't.

rms2
01-06-2019, 07:21 PM
Congrats! That's a big breakthrough!

Hopefully he doesn't get frightened away by Big-Y. I certainly hope he doesn't.

A couple of us have offered to help pay for it, and I offered to pay for stand-alone tests for FGC36982 and FGC36981, if he would rather not do the Big Y right now.

rms2
01-11-2019, 06:19 PM
Thank you, God, again!

My 110/111 match recruit ordered the Big Y-500 today and paid for all of it himself! :beerchug:

Looks like he has been bitten by the genetic genealogy bug.

JMcB
01-11-2019, 06:42 PM
Thank you, God, again!

My 110/111 match recruit ordered the Big Y-500 today and paid for all of it himself! :beerchug:

Looks like he has been bitten by the genetic genealogy bug.

Congratulations! You’re really on a roll!

Osiris
01-11-2019, 07:58 PM
Awesome! Thank goodness these breakthroughs happen at home rather than in the library like in the days old. It makes it easier to get up and dance about in celebration.

I'm in almost the same boat trying to attach my twig to a larger branch that got severed in the 1800s. I wish stories like this were used in some advertising because it can is amazing what it can do. It might stir excitement in people who roll there eyes at the ethnicity commercials.

rms2
01-19-2019, 02:34 PM
FTDNA predicts that his Big Y-500 results will arrive sometime from 25 March - 8 April 2019.

Wish they were a bit quicker!

Guess I'm greedy, but I wish NGS testing was an overnight process.

Agamemnon
01-19-2019, 02:38 PM
FTDNA predicts that his Big Y-500 results will arrive sometime from 25 March - 8 April 2019.

Wish they were a bit quicker!

Guess I'm greedy, but I wish NGS testing was an overnight process.

Don't we all? :biggrin1:

jdean
01-19-2019, 03:24 PM
Don't we all? :biggrin1:

I'm using meditation techniques to stop myself constantly checking for a BigY result in one of my projects, it's kind of working : )

rms2
01-19-2019, 04:34 PM
I'm using meditation techniques to stop myself constantly checking for a BigY result in one of my projects, it's kind of working : )

I think I'll try drinking more. ;)

Osiris
01-20-2019, 03:21 AM
FTDNA predicts that his Big Y-500 results will arrive sometime from 25 March - 8 April 2019.

Wish they were a bit quicker!

Guess I'm greedy, but I wish NGS testing was an overnight process.
Like if they had one super fancy chip that ran every test on a sample and it was cheaper and faster to run that as soon as they received it and people just paid to unlock certain pieces of information. Ok, maybe that's bad.

jdean
01-20-2019, 12:29 PM
I think I'll try drinking more. ;)

Took you're advice, but it's only a temporary fix : )

jdean
01-20-2019, 12:34 PM
Like if they had one super fancy chip that ran every test on a sample and it was cheaper and faster to run that as soon as they received it and people just paid to unlock certain pieces of information. Ok, maybe that's bad.

Pretty sure FTDNA are already doing this with STR testing, also suspect they don't use Sanger sequencing for a one off SNP if it's on a panel.

rms2
01-20-2019, 03:59 PM
Pretty sure FTDNA are already doing this with STR testing, also suspect they don't use Sanger sequencing for a one off SNP if it's on a panel.

This particular Big Y-500 is a huge deal for me, so I hope they hurry up with it, while being accurate, of course.

I'm not getting any younger.

rms2
01-23-2019, 09:03 PM
Anyway, while I am waiting I have been working on my tree at Ancestry, adding people and details. Meanwhile, a 64/67 match of mine who spells our surname with a ph just ordered an upgrade to 111 markers, and a second cousin once removed who is an exact 37-marker match for me ordered the test for my terminal SNP, FGC36981.

That last one is important. He has already tested FGC36982+, which is the SNP immediately upstream of FGC36981. Thus far the only ones with FGC36981+ results are my second cousin Paul and I. Paul and I share the same y-dna great grandfather. The mrca we share with this second cousin once removed, Mark, is our second great grandfather, his great grandfather (which is what makes him once removed from us). So his test result will tell us if FGC36981 dates back only as far as our great grandfather or if it goes back at least as far as his father. That will be interesting. If Mark is FGC36981-, that will pinpoint my great grandfather as the source of FGC36981, but if Mark is FGC36981+, it becomes an open question again.

rms2
02-01-2019, 11:56 PM
Thank you, God, again!

My 110/111 match recruit ordered the Big Y-500 today and paid for all of it himself! :beerchug:

Looks like he has been bitten by the genetic genealogy bug.

This new recruit will be the first of us to get the new Big Y-700 from FTDNA.

If I get it, I'll have to pay for an upgrade. I'll probably do it, if it's not too expensive.

jdean
02-02-2019, 01:43 AM
This new recruit will be the first of us to get the new Big Y-700 from FTDNA.

If I get it, I'll have to pay for an upgrade. I'll probably do it, if it's not too expensive.

I'm going to wait and see how much extra info it's likely to produce. My guess is not too much past extra SNPs that likely have extremely small mutation rates.

OOI I've just received a back handed confirmation that I was right that the upgrade of the original BigY to BigY 500 was a rerun and not a simple conversion of build 37 to 38.

rms2
02-06-2019, 12:51 AM
Waiting, waiting, waiting.

The way of genetic genealogy.

Aaarrrggghhh!

rms2
02-09-2019, 02:32 AM
I was hoping this particular Big Y I'm waiting for would come in early, but now that FTDNA has made another change to the Big Switcheroo Y-700, I guess it's going to take longer than I had hoped. Personally, I wish they had just stuck with the old Big Y-500. I don't feel like waiting longer for these results.

I know I shouldn't do it, but I keep checking every day, in case things turn out well, and the results come in early.

JMcB
02-09-2019, 04:10 AM
I was hoping this particular Big Y I'm waiting for would come in early, but now that FTDNA has made another change to the Big Switcheroo Y-700, I guess it's going to take longer than I had hoped. Personally, I wish they had just stuck with the old Big Y-500. I don't feel like waiting longer for these results.

I know I shouldn't do it, but I keep checking every day, in case things turn out well, and the results come in early.

Unfortunately, much of this game is a waiting game. Waiting for results, waiting for an anticipated paper, waiting for a new match, waiting for an ancient match to be found in your haplogroup, waiting for your match to answer your email.

Waiting, waiting, waiting!


Day after day, day after day,
We stuck, nor breath nor motion;
As idle as a painted ship
Upon a painted ocean.

Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink ....


Well, maybe it’s not quite that bad but still .... ;-)


Anyway, I hope it comes sooner than you think!


Personally, I’m looking forward to seeing how much improvement there is in 700’s SNP coverage because it may determine my next move. So I’m also .... waiting! Just not to the degree you are because this is big in your case!

rms2
02-14-2019, 01:04 AM
I think I mentioned that this recent 110/111 match, now awaiting Big Y-700 results, confirms the paper trail evidence that suggested that Augustine Stevens and his wife Sophia Young are my 5th great grandparents. I will spare you all the long story of how I know that to be the case.

Anyway, while I am waiting for the aforementioned Big Y-700, to break my own boredom I will mention that the old book, A Centennial Biographical History of Crawford County, Ohio, by James G. Tobias (1902), available online here (https://archive.org/stream/centennialbiogra00lewi/centennialbiogra00lewi_djvu.txt), says that Augustine and Sophia were "of English and Welsh extraction".

The surname Young is not a Welsh surname, but Stevens/Stephens is. In fact, as I understand it, Young is actually a Scots surname.

Anyway, the "Welsh extraction" part is right in line with what the y-chromosome evidence has demonstrated over the years.

spruithean
02-14-2019, 08:35 PM
Neat find, hopefully your Big Y-700 comes through soon. It must be exciting to be this close to potentially breaking down a brickwall.

rms2
02-15-2019, 12:40 AM
Neat find, hopefully your Big Y-700 comes through soon. It must be exciting to be this close to potentially breaking down a brickwall.

It already has broken down a brick wall, but it has left the name of my third great grandfather's father a mystery, since this gets me to his grandparents and skips over his father. Still, I know the names of at least some of their sons, so now I just need to figure out which one of them is my fourth great grandfather, or if he is an as-yet-unknown son of Augustine and Sophia.

rms2
02-23-2019, 04:17 PM
Here is something I just noticed. My ancestor Sophia Young Stevens, wife of Augustine Stevens, was actually born in England. In his book, A Centennial Biographical History of Crawford County, Ohio (1902), the author, James G. Tobias, uses "G.M." for "grandmother", and "G.F." for grandfather. Thus he says of Sophia, ". . . G. M. Stevens, also born in England". When I first read that, back in 2016, I did not know to whom Tobias was referring and frankly did not pay much attention to it. Then, just a couple of days ago, I was rereading it and realized from the context and from his use of its counterpart, "G.F.", for grandfather, that Tobias was referring to "Grandmother Stevens", which in this case is Sophia.

That makes sense, because elsewhere Tobias says of Augustine and Sophia that they were "of English and Welsh extraction".

Tobias' book is available online here:

A Centennial Biographical History of Crawford County, Ohio (https://archive.org/stream/centennialbiogra00lewi/centennialbiogra00lewi_djvu.txt).

Tobias mistakenly follows an error made by author Horace Mack in his earlier (1889) book, History of Columbiana County, Ohio: With Illustrations and Biographical Sketches of Its Prominent Men and Pioneers (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924006513802;view=1up;seq=3), and refers to Augustine Stevens as "Augustus". It is clear from the will of Augustine's brother Samuel (proved in 1797), from the tax records of Fayette County, Pennsylvania, and from the fact that Augustine named one of his sons Augustine, that Augustine's name was Augustine, not Augustus. Another of Augustine's sons, Amos H. Stevens, also named one of his sons Augustine.

My third great grandfather, Auguston, was Augustine's grandson and obviously named for him. Auguston's name appears in various records also as Augustine and Augustin. Auguston is apparently a phonetic spelling that shows how our family pronounced the name (as Augustan rather than Augusteen).

rms2
03-02-2019, 03:34 PM
This waiting stuff is hard.

Accurate but faster results would sure be a nice development.

rms2
03-08-2019, 11:24 PM
A second cousin once removed did an a la carte SNP test for FGC36981 (the terminal SNP for myself and a second cousin). He came back positive two days ago, so that moves FGC36981 past my great grandfather (the mrca of my second cousin and me) to my second great grandfather (the mrca of all three of us). That also shows that another of our second cousins once removed is FGC36981+, since the mrca for all of us is my second great grandfather, James Holmes Stevens (b. 31 Dec 1835 in Beaver County, Pennsylvania).

We don't yet know if FGC36981 goes back any further than that.

rms2
03-17-2019, 03:41 PM
Eight days until the first date predicted for the Big Y-700 results of my fifth cousin once removed, 110/111 match.

Phew! Hard to wait, but I keep hoping they'll come in early.

Then I think, what's next?

Of course, a lot depends on just exactly what his results reveal.

Dave-V
03-17-2019, 04:45 PM
Eight days until the first date predicted for the Big Y-700 results of my fifth cousin once removed, 110/111 match.

Phew! Hard to wait, but I keep hoping they'll come in early.

Then I think, what's next?

Of course, a lot depends on just exactly what his results reveal.

The last thing I want to do is deflate your anticipation, but just to "manage your expectations"; most of at least the early Big Y700 results seem to be coming in in a series of steps:

1. First FTDNA posts the STRs from the Y700 test including the 200+ new ones. These are of limited value by themselves unless of course you only need the STRs. In your case you should at least see the first 111 STRs included which may be all you need for comparison to your other kits.

2. 3 or 4 days later, the first SNP results are posted along with a haplogroup designation. However, the results are first posted before quality control and sorting of the new SNPs are completed. Y700 appears to have on average about 1.6x the coverage of Y500s, so many new SNPs are discovered - so many in fact that FTDNA will spend the next several weeks in naming and sorting the new ones. How that is reflected in the early test results is that you'll see MANY many unnamed variants listed in the "Unnamed Variants" report - often over 100 of them - and over the course of several weeks that number will progressively go down to a much smaller number as FTDNA progressively identifies the ones that are actually part of upstream equivalent blocks, assigns them upstream, and names them which removes them from your unnamed variants report.

3. If you have other kits that have already been tested for Big Y500, you probably know that the threshold for matches to show up on the Big Y Matches report is that they have less than 30 non-matching variants between them. If you DO have existing Big Y500 tests, your new Big Y700 probably won't show any of them as matches. Why? Because all the new SNPs found in the Y700 test will trigger the 30-non-matching-SNP limit between two Big Ys much faster than it did before so only REALLY closely related men are showing up as matches. FTDNA needs to raise that 30 SNP limit for Big Y700s but hasn't taken action yet.

The long turnarounds and threshold limits should get fixed in time, and of course these may not be show-stoppers for you especially since most of your existing work has been done with STRs. I just wanted you to be aware that with Y700 it's not (yet?) simply a matter of getting all the data appearing in the reports on the day the test is complete, the way earlier test results have come in.

rms2
03-17-2019, 05:30 PM
Wow, that stinks.

I was looking for my terminal SNP and the ones just upstream of it.

How long before word of those comes?

I'm not all that interested in extra STRs.

Dave-V
03-17-2019, 05:43 PM
Wow, that stinks.

I was looking for my terminal SNP and the ones just upstream of it.

How long before word of those comes?

I'm not all that interested in extra STRs.

For your existing terminal SNP and the ones upstream from it that are already on FTDNA’s haplotree, those should get identified pretty quickly - either in my steps 1 or 2 above. The real issue is the time it takes to get all the new SNPs identified and sorted out.

rms2
03-17-2019, 08:59 PM
For your existing terminal SNP and the ones upstream from it that are already on FTDNA’s haplotree, those should get identified pretty quickly - either in my steps 1 or 2 above. The real issue is the time it takes to get all the new SNPs identified and sorted out.

Okay, thanks.

That's not too bad then.

The rest of us in our little project who have the Big Y have the old "500" version, so new SNPs from the new test won't be all that informative.

I'll upgrade to the new Big Y-700 when an upgrade becomes available if it's not too expensive. (Another $500+ would be too expensive.)

rms2
03-19-2019, 05:58 PM
My Stevens fifth cousin once removed got the first installment of his Big Y-700 results today.

He is derived for FGC36982, which is just one step upstream of my current terminal SNP, FGC36981, but he does not yet have a result for FGC36981. So, when I checked his results just a few minutes ago for FGC36981, what came up was "Currently no results".

Can I expect to see a FGC36981 result in a few days, one way or the other?

FGC36974 is the SNP that characterizes all our Stephens/Stevens matches. FGC36982 is a branch off of FGC36974, and FGC36981 is a branch off of FGC36982. Thus far, my fifth cousin once removed is FGC36974+ FGC36982+, but FGC36981 "Currently no results".

jdean
03-19-2019, 07:31 PM
My Stevens fifth cousin once removed got the first installment of his Big Y-700 results today.

He is derived for FGC36982, which is just one step upstream of my current terminal SNP, FGC36981, but he does not yet have a result for FGC36981. So, when I checked his results just a few minutes ago for FGC36981, what came up was "Currently no results".

Can I expect to see a FGC36981 result in a few days, one way or the other?

FGC36974 is the SNP that characterizes all our Stephens/Stevens matches. FGC36982 is a branch off of FGC36974, and FGC36981 is a branch off of FGC36982. Thus far, my fifth cousin once removed is FGC36974+ FGC36982+, but FGC36981 "Currently no results".

You could try looking at SNPs in the vicinity, via Ybrowse, and then use the 'Y-Chromosome Browsing Tool' to see what's going on at FGC36981.

rms2
03-19-2019, 11:22 PM
You could try looking at SNPs in the vicinity, via Ybrowse, and then use the 'Y-Chromosome Browsing Tool' to see what's going on at FGC36981.

I tried the browsing tool for FGC36981, but there's nothing there, so evidently he has no result there yet, positive or negative.

He could be negative for it, which would just show that FGC36981 popped up after our mrca, Augustine Stevens. It could be a SNP unique to my own line. Thus far, I know it was present at least as far back as my second great grandfather. I am just wondering if it goes back to my fifth great grandfather Augustine, who is the mrca my fifth cousin once removed and I share.

rms2
03-20-2019, 05:26 PM
I called FTDNA this morning and asked them to check on the result of my 5th cousin once removed for FGC36981. Turns out he is ancestral for it. So now I know our mrca, Augustine Stevens, was FGC36982xFGC36981 and that therefore my own terminal SNP just downstream of FGC36982 arose in one of his descendants from my fourth great grandfather to no later than my second great grandfather. That pegs FGC36981 as specific to our particular branch of the y-chromosome line.

rms2
03-21-2019, 11:19 PM
These Big Y-700 results confirm this tree graphic, which I made awhile back. That's my grandfather in the lower far left. The line of my fifth cousin once removed with the new Big Y-700 results is on the right.

29484

JMcB
03-22-2019, 12:06 AM
These Big Y-700 results confirm this tree graphic, which I made awhile back. That's my grandfather in the lower far left. The line of my fifth cousin once removed with the new Big Y-700 results is on the right.

29484

I remember that graph. With all those great pictures, it would look good in a frame, hanging on the wall.

Congratulations!

rms2
03-22-2019, 11:14 PM
I remember that graph. With all those great pictures, it would look good in a frame, hanging on the wall.

Congratulations!

I actually just updated it to include the tombstone of Amos H. Stevens in Crawford County, Ohio.

29489

It's not a real clear photo, however. It looks like that tombstone was whitewashed at some point.

rms2
04-23-2019, 12:46 AM
I'm currently enjoying Ancestry's ThruLines. I have five matches there to other descendants of my fifth great grandfather Augustine Stevens (b. 1750). Add to those the two additional I have at Family Finder, and that makes seven.

rms2
04-28-2019, 12:06 AM
When I get bored and I am not finding much if anything new at Ancestry, I make another one of these trees. This one includes all my same-surname matches and one with the surname Jackson who has good reason to believe there was an informal adoption or other source of a name change in his y-dna line, which was originally Stevens. He has tested FGC36974+.

30113

jdean
04-28-2019, 10:51 AM
When I get bored and I am not finding much if anything new at Ancestry, I make another one of these trees. This one includes all my same-surname matches and one with the surname Jackson who has good reason to believe there was an informal adoption or other source of a name change in his y-dna line, which was originally Stevens. He has tested FGC36974+.

30113

Maybe I should give it a go, I'm seriously bored waiting for BigY results to come in at the mo.

Sent three emails Friday, one offering a free BigY to my most distant surname match, anther to a new (and very important) BigY match for one of the groups in the surname project and the third to the main researcher for that group. Guess how many replies I've had back.

rms2
04-28-2019, 01:34 PM
Maybe I should give it a go, I'm seriously bored waiting for BigY results to come in at the mo.

Sent three emails Friday, one offering a free BigY to my most distant surname match, anther to a new (and very important) BigY match for one of the groups in the surname project and the third to the main researcher for that group. Guess how many replies I've had back.

It's fun and relaxing for me to make trees like that one, although my youngest daughter might beg to differ, since she periodically feels the need to shout at me from her room to stop swearing when I screw up and have to go back and redo something.

Making them helps me to remember how things stand with the research and reminds me of how much we have been blessed with same-surname y-dna matches, especially with matches willing to do the Big Y.

razyn
04-28-2019, 02:49 PM
Kind of off-topic, but do you know about the ~4,000 unclaimed medals for Civil War service in the (Union) militia of West Virginia? There's a process for getting your ancestor's medal. I don't have any ancestors from there, but I think you do; anyhow there are several available for guys named Stevens. In case it's of any interest: http://www.wvculture.org/history/archives/civilwarmedals/medals.html?fbclid=IwAR3Y5OynALUlpGfwm1TeTqfSW_QLY uRfVLO92fcx9xCpT627jJsVADZEXIE

rms2
04-28-2019, 03:59 PM
Kind of off-topic, but do you know about the ~4,000 unclaimed medals for Civil War service in the (Union) militia of West Virginia? There's a process for getting your ancestor's medal. I don't have any ancestors from there, but I think you do; anyhow there are several available for guys named Stevens. In case it's of any interest: http://www.wvculture.org/history/archives/civilwarmedals/medals.html?fbclid=IwAR3Y5OynALUlpGfwm1TeTqfSW_QLY uRfVLO92fcx9xCpT627jJsVADZEXIE

Thanks.

My third great grandfather Auguston was born in Wheeling in 1804 but spent most of his life in Beaver County, PA, and in nearby Columbiana County, OH. Then he went south to Bastrop, Louisiana, around 1845, which is how his son, my second great grandfather, James, although born in Beaver County, PA, came to fight for the Confederacy. His younger brother, Alfred Augustin, was born in Ohio but served in the same Confederate unit.

A bunch of my Stevens relatives fought for the Union, and at least one, John, was in a West Virginia unit, but I don't see his name listed as due a medal. There is a John on the list, but our John was in Company A, 4th West Virginia Infantry. The one on the list served in Company B, 7th West Virginia Infantry.

razyn
04-28-2019, 04:06 PM
I think they produced 26,000 of the medals, and still have almost 4,000 that haven't been distributed. So one hopes your John is one of the 22,000 who already got his (or some descendant has done so). Anyway, I thought it was neat that a state would still be distributing them after 150 years. Someone posted this link on a Facebook group for Germanna Colony descendants. A lot of them moved to what became WV; it wasn't all that far from their original land (mostly in present Culpeper and Madison counties of VA).

rms2
04-28-2019, 04:18 PM
I think they produced 26,000 of the medals, and still have almost 4,000 that haven't been distributed. So one hopes your John is one of the 22,000 who already got his (or some descendant has done so). Anyway, I thought it was neat that a state would still be distributing them after 150 years. Someone posted this link on a Facebook group for Germanna Colony descendants. A lot of them moved to what became WV; it wasn't all that far from their original land (mostly in present Culpeper and Madison counties of VA).

It would have been really cool to bag one of those medals. A maternal second great grandfather of mine, Levi Gist, fought for the Union, but he was in a Tennessee unit, Company A, 2nd Tennessee Mounted Infantry (they rode horses but went into battle on foot).

Here's a photo of the John Stevens who served in Co. A, 4th WV Infantry. Ancestry says he's my 2nd cousin 4x removed. One of his second great grandsons is a 109/111 and Big Y y-dna match for me.

30130

Here's one of my paternal second great grandfathers, Captain John Holmes, who served as a Confederate in Co. E, 16th Mississippi Infantry. I got his record from the National Archives. His unit was in Lee's Army of Northern Virginia and was in all the major engagements except First Manassas (Bull Run). They were in Jackson's Valley Campaign and were among the soldiers known as "Jackson's Foot Cavalry". He was taken prisoner at the Battle for the Weldon Railroad outside Petersburg, Virginia, near the end of the war, ended up in the prison for officers at Fort Delaware, was finally paroled and transferred by steamship to Savannah, Georgia, in a prisoner exchange, and went home.

30131

I found out from some Holmes cousins who are Family Finder matches of mine that his y-haplogroup is E-V13.

rms2
04-28-2019, 07:09 PM
Well, you've got me posting pictures. Here's one of the wife of the Civil War Union veteran John Stevens. Her name is Catherine Shideler Stevens. She looks pretty good, if you ask me.

30138

Here are some other Stevens relatives of mine (I might have posted this already), authentic Kansas sodbusters.

30139

JMcB
04-28-2019, 09:23 PM
Well, you've got me posting pictures. Here's one of the wife of the Civil War Union veteran John Stevens. Her name is Catherine Shideler Stevens. She looks pretty good, if you ask me.

30138

Here are some other Stevens relatives of mine (I might have posted this already), authentic Kansas sodbusters.

30139

Great pictures!

They grew some mighty fine mustaches in those days!

alan
04-28-2019, 09:43 PM
Aaaaa

jdean
04-28-2019, 10:29 PM
Totally off topic except for that it relates to historical family photos - I recently discovered my great uncles WWII Nazi POW camp card when he was held prisoner after injury and capture by the Nazis during the Battle of Arnhem as the British Army tried to cross the Lower Rhine by paratrooper attack.


30149

Great find !!!

rms2
04-29-2019, 10:29 PM
Well, you've got me posting pictures. Here's one of the wife of the Civil War Union veteran John Stevens. Her name is Catherine Shideler Stevens. She looks pretty good, if you ask me.

30138

Here are some other Stevens relatives of mine (I might have posted this already), authentic Kansas sodbusters.

30139

I don't know if I can adequately express this, but the people in those photos look like relatives of mine (minus the huge bushy moustaches), which they are; I mean they fall into the same sorts of general phenotypes. I don't know if that makes sense, but I know what I mean: I can see the resemblances.

rms2
10-20-2019, 10:56 PM
A second cousin of mine who lives in Atlanta sent me an old photo copy he found among his papers that he thought I might be interested in. Turns out it is a photo copy of a newspaper obituary for my third great grandmother, Sarah Ann Hill Armstrong, the wife of my third great grandfather, Auguston Stevens.

It is chock full of good information, as you will see from the text. The source is the New Orleans Christian Advocate, which was a weekly publication of the Methodist Episcopal Church in Louisiana, and is dated 26 August 1875.

Here it is.



New Orleans Christian Advocate, 26 August 1875

Obituaries

Mrs. Sarah A. H. Pettit was born in Somerset county, eastern shore of Maryland, April 2, 1810, and died at the home of her son-in-law, S. W. Riley, in Morehouse Parish, La., April 18, 1875, aged sixty-five years and ten days.

Sister Pettit was the daughter of Matthew and Elizabeth Armstrong, with whom she resided and by whom she was trained to love and serve God until the year 1828, when she was married to Mr. Augustin Stevens of Virginia. Mr. Stevens, after his marriage, moved to Beaver, Pa., where they resided for thirteen years; then moved to Ohio, where they resided for four years. In 1847 they moved to Morehouse parish, La. In 1849 Mr. Stevens died, leaving to the care of his wife seven children, with but a small estate for their maintenance. She trained these children and managed this estate so that they were respectably educated and provided for. Matthew, Lula, Elizabeth, Christopher and Alfred have passed over the river of death. James H. and Anna still remain, abiding the time appointed of the good Lord. It is not known precisely at what time Sister Pettit was converted or joined the church, but she was a member at the time of her marriage with Mr. Stevens.

In 1856 she married Mr. James Pettit, with whom she lived for some five or six years, faithfully and impartially performing the duties of wife, mother, and stepmother. Mr. Pettit died early after the beginning of the late war, leaving in her charge a plantation and servants, together with two children of his by a former marriage. It is said of her that under these trying circumstances she did the best she could - always, when erring at all, erring on the lenient side.

Sister Pettit's religious life did not so much appear in her utterances or professions as in her acts. She delighted in the services of the sanctuary, had pleasure in the company of the saints, and readily conversed on religious subjects. But her religious character was more clearly exhibited in her acts of kindness, especially to the sick. One has said of her: "She was always doing something for some one." She delighted in doing good, and had but to know that there was sickness to insure her presence and kind offices. She was exceedingly cautious in the management of her affairs, and was always careful that her secular and her religious life should correspond. And while she was "diligent in business, she was fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;" hence when death came it found her in readiness. She had set her house in order more than two years before she was called to go hence. She had set aside as sacred treasure an amount sufficient to defray her funeral expenses, prepared her burial suit, arranged her temporal affairs, and placed herself in readiness to respond to the call of death whenever it should be made.

She was unconscious for some three days; consequently she said nothing during her last illness encouraging the hopes of her family and friends. Indeed no dying utterances were required. Her life of pious labor, sacrifice and devotion abundantly satisfied all who knew her that she has entered into the rest that remaineth to the people of God.
J. L. W

rms2
11-01-2019, 11:22 PM
Without going into too much detail, the above has led me to the discovery of a 5th great grandfather, Levin Hill, who was born about 1750 and who owned 400 acres in Mispillion Hundred, Kent County, Delaware, which is now just woods.

That's not that far from where I live. I could drive over there and have a look.

rms2
01-03-2020, 02:01 PM
Got a match with my surname a few days ago whose mdk y-dna ancestor was born in Talbot County, Maryland. For awhile we've suspected that's where our family was before beginning to spread out and move westward. Still waiting for the lady who manages her brother's kit to join him to our project.

rms2
01-05-2020, 11:14 PM
Got a match with my surname a few days ago whose mdk y-dna ancestor was born in Talbot County, Maryland. For awhile we've suspected that's where our family was before beginning to spread out and move westward. Still waiting for the lady who manages her brother's kit to join him to our project.

She joined him to the project yesterday. Not only was their mdk y-dna ancestor born in Talbot County, but they themselves were born and raised in Frederick County, Maryland, where the mdk y-dna ancestor of another of our matches was from. My own mdk y-dna ancestor was born in Ellicott's Mills, Howard County, Maryland (now Ellicott City, when it's not under flood waters), just southeast of Frederick County.