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Neuro
08-25-2016, 12:46 AM
I recently got back my ancestrydna results, and was hoping to get some help with understanding them. My supposed ethnic background based on parents and grandparents would be 75% Italian and 25% Ukrainian, but these were my percentages:

Italy/Greece 51%
Europe East 20%
Caucasus 11%
Middle East 8%
European Jewish 4%
North Africa 2%
Scandinavia <1
Iberian Peninsula <1
Finland/Northwest Russia >1
Ireland <1

I know that the Caucasus/Middle East often shows up with Italians, but a combined percentage of 19% West Asian ethnicity seems high to me considering what I know of my background? I’m just not sure what this indicates, and was wondering whether other Italians have also come out this high or even higher. Can anyone recommend an admixture tool on gedmatch that might be helpful with looking into this?

MatAust21
08-25-2016, 01:41 AM
I think it is pretty normal for Sicilians and other southern Italians to score a lot of Caucasus/Middle East. Not sure about the North Africa, though. Then again, small percentages shouldn't be taken seriously. As for the Jewish, perhaps it comes from the Ukrainian side? Eastern Europe alway had a big Jewish community.

Overall, I would say your results are in line with what someone who is mostly southern Italian, and a bit eastern European, should expect.

Kopfjäger
08-25-2016, 02:16 AM
I recently got back my ancestrydna results, and was hoping to get some help with understanding them. My supposed ethnic background based on parents and grandparents would be 75% Italian and 25% Ukrainian, but these were my percentages:

Italy/Greece 51%
Europe East 20%
Caucasus 11%
Middle East 8%
European Jewish 4%
North Africa 2%
Scandinavia <1
Iberian Peninsula <1
Finland/Northwest Russia >1
Ireland <1

I know that the Caucasus/Middle East often shows up with Italians, but a combined percentage of 19% West Asian ethnicity seems high to me considering what I know of my background? I’m just not sure what this indicates, and was wondering whether other Italians have also come out this high or even higher. Can anyone recommend an admixture tool on gedmatch that might be helpful with looking into this?

Hi, Neuro!

My mother is half-Italian, and I can tell you that my scores on Middle Eastern/North African ancestry are comparable to yours. My Italian family is from Campania (Naples and Avellino), although it's possible that there is some Sicilian ancestry in there, based on my maternal great-grandfather's yDNA matches.

Neuro
08-25-2016, 02:34 AM
Thank you for the replies! I'm mostly Sicilian, but have one grandparent from Molise. I think I was just surprised to see the Caucasus/Middle Eastern because I would have never expected it, but it does make sense.

Abd.H
08-25-2016, 09:58 AM
Cool results , I recommend you to try MDLP K23b and MDLP World on gedmatch
Anyway it's normal for Southern Europeans to score like this middle eastern percentages ,on the other hand Eastern Mediterraneans score also some Southern European ,MYORIGINS on FTDNA gives me 18% Southern European

Baltimore1937
08-25-2016, 04:37 PM
I recall reading somewhere online that settlers from the Campania region settled in Sicily, back in Medieval times.

Morges
08-25-2016, 05:26 PM
I recall reading somewhere online that settlers from the Campania region settled in Sicily, back in Medieval times.

In Norman times for replacing the muslims in Western part of the island many settlers came from Langobardia Minor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langobardia_Minor

Neuro
08-25-2016, 09:27 PM
Here were my results using gedmatch:

MDLP K23b
# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 33.93
2 European_Hunters_Gatherers 20.19
3 European_Early_Farmers 19.77
4 Near_East 8.75
5 North_African 6.27
6 South_Central_Asian 5.67
7 Ancestral_Altaic 1.88
8 South_Indian 1.67

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Greek_Peloponnesos @ 6.789585
2 Greek_Thessaloniki @ 7.273315
3 Greek_Northwest @ 7.517235
4 Greek_Thessaly @ 7.935690
5 Albanian_Tirana @ 8.636617
6 Ashkenazi_Jew @ 8.844489
7 Central_Greek @ 8.905452
8 Ashkenazi @ 8.989141
9 Kosovar @ 9.459811
10 Greek_Macedonia @ 9.711193
11 Greek @ 9.765670
12 Sicilian_West @ 9.770613
13 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain @ 9.808249
14 Romanian @ 10.681020
15 Sicilian_Siracusa @ 10.795134
16 Romanian_Jew @ 10.876458
17 Greek_Athens @ 10.976400
18 Sicilian_Trapani @ 11.268823
19 Gagauz @ 11.595419
20 Bulgarian @ 11.637127

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Christian_Arabs_Israel +50% Norwegian_East @ 2.407590

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% French_Jew +25% Russian-North-West +25% Sicilian_West @ 1.533485

MDLP World
# Population Percent
1 South_and_West_European 39.69
2 Middle_East 19.31
3 North_and_East_European 17.86
4 Caucaus_Parsia 17.82
5 Indian 1.96
6 East_Asian 1.43

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Ashkenazim_V @ 4.037660
2 Greek_South @ 4.358363
3 Greek_North @ 5.302469
4 Jew_Romania @ 5.967330
5 Greek_Center @ 7.769038
6 Greek_East @ 8.257969
7 Italian-Center @ 8.267299
8 Gagauz @ 10.825200
9 Sicilian @ 11.079500
10 Italian-South @ 11.113117
11 Bulgarian @ 13.814871
12 Ashkenazim @ 13.983807
13 Greek_Cretan @ 14.042078
14 Italian-North @ 14.506522
15 Romania @ 15.443198
16 Tatar_Crim @ 15.934275
17 Greek_Azov @ 16.087723
18 Macedonian @ 16.399862
19 Jew_France @ 16.752577
20 Jew_Italia @ 17.232826

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Jew_Syria +50% German-South @ 2.558919

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Lebanese +25% Czech +25% Basque @ 1.404221

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_France + CEU_V @ 1.212821
2 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_Italia + CEU_V @ 1.235891
3 Lebanese + Romania + Sephardim + CEU_V @ 1.286792
4 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_France + German_V @ 1.290675
5 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_France + Austrian @ 1.299618
6 Romania + Jew_France + Syrian + CEU @ 1.309004
7 Romania + Jew_France + Syrian + Orcadian @ 1.313997
8 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_Italia + CEU @ 1.314520
9 Romania + Jew_France + Syrian + British @ 1.327337
10 Romania + Jew_France + Welsh + Syrian @ 1.329461
11 Lebanese + Romania + Norwegian_V + Sephardim @ 1.344330
12 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_Italia + Welsh @ 1.350174
13 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_France + CEU @ 1.357888
14 Lebanese + Romania + Slovenian + Jew_France @ 1.358665
15 Lebanese + Romania + Welsh + Sephardim @ 1.374667
16 Jew_Algeria + Lebanese + Romania + Welsh @ 1.376399
17 Romania + Jew_Italia + Syrian + Orcadian @ 1.379164
18 Lebanese + Lebanese + Czech + Basque @ 1.404221
19 Ashkenazim_V + Romania + Italian_North + Syrian @ 1.406505
20 Lebanese + Romania + Jew_Italia + German_V @ 1.421307

Morges
08-25-2016, 09:36 PM
Sei siciliano con un po molisano giusto?

Neuro
08-25-2016, 09:59 PM
Yes, with some Ukrainian

Morges
08-25-2016, 10:03 PM
So 75% Italian and 25% Ukrainian?

Neuro
08-25-2016, 10:06 PM
As far as I know. We can only trace back around 3 generations so beyond that no one is really sure.

Pegasusphm1
09-14-2016, 05:53 AM
Cool results , I recommend you to try MDLP K23b and MDLP World on gedmatch
Anyway it's normal for Southern Europeans to score like this middle eastern percentages ,on the other hand Eastern Mediterraneans score also some Southern European ,MYORIGINS on FTDNA gives me 18% Southern European

Yah I have 3% Middle-east 3% Asia-Minor with my Italian. Got to love the Mediterranean sea, sailors brought more than just wine and olive oil with them I see we are both J1 Hah!!!!

yer_sister
06-16-2018, 06:06 PM
We are Northern Italian and have around the same Caucus and West Asian results. It is not just Southern Italians who show east Mediterranean, West Asian/Caucus aka Middle East. Some Northern Italians perhaps who's peoples come from Austria area may not, but to say only Southern Italians is just not true. And I am only HALF Northern Italian and my scores on those 3 are relatively same and close. It depends on the migration of the people within Italy. Italy is a small state and the village where I live in the Alps, which is the most extreme NORTH Italy most everyone came originally from Rome which is CENTRAL Italy. Where my dad and his family are from in North Italy did not come from Rome and I still got the same basic results with West Asian, Caucus and East Mediterranean.

vettor
06-16-2018, 07:18 PM
I have access to my first cousin ancestry DNA....her "new" results state...............her paternal and maternal line i have traced until 15th century in North-East Italy

Updated Estimate
Italy 37%
Refined from:Europe South 61%

France 35%
Refined from:Europe West 9%

Germanic Europe 19%
Refined from:Europe West 9%

Greece and the Balkans 5%
Refined from: Europe South 61%

Ireland and Scotland 2%
Decreased by 9%

Spain
2% Refined from:
Iberian Peninsula 9%

New Ethnicity Estimate
Italy 37%
France 35%
Germanic Europe 19%
Greece and the Balkans 5%
Ireland and Scotland 2%
Spain 2%

Migrations
Northern Italy

What does migrations mean ?

digital_noise
06-16-2018, 10:05 PM
We are Northern Italian and have around the same Caucus and West Asian results. It is not just Southern Italians who show east Mediterranean, West Asian/Caucus aka Middle East. Some Northern Italians perhaps who's peoples come from Austria area may not, but to say only Southern Italians is just not true. And I am only HALF Northern Italian and my scores on those 3 are relatively same and close. It depends on the migration of the people within Italy. Italy is a small state and the village where I live in the Alps, which is the most extreme NORTH Italy most everyone came originally from Rome which is CENTRAL Italy. Where my dad and his family are from in North Italy did not come from Rome and I still got the same basic results with West Asian, Caucus and East Mediterranean.

I dont think anyone is saying that Northern Italians dont have the Caucasus admix, that it just gets heavier the further south you go.

Andrewid
06-17-2018, 10:39 AM
Indeed the further south you go in Italy the more the 'Mediterranean continuum" effect is relevant. This is felt from southern Italy to the Levant.

Neuro
12-02-2019, 08:05 PM
I recently logged into ancestry for the first time in a while and noticed that my results changed with the update. Much more accurate now:

78% Italy
15% Eastern Europe and Russia
4% Greece & Balkans
3% European Jewish

I'd be curious to see if any other Italians had their Middle Eastern/Caucasus percentages decrease with the new update.

Nino90
12-02-2019, 08:23 PM
My brother tested with ancestry. And we are both mixed Europeans.
He only got this (Possible) from his Italian ancestry:
Italy : 3%
France: 3%
Germanic Region : 3%
England and Northwest: 8%

This may not be very much of help but his real ancestry is 37.5% North Tuscan.

JerryS.
12-03-2019, 04:02 PM
My first cousin's ancestry data. her dad and mine were brothers. her mom is Irish and Scandinavian, mine is German and Scottish so our dad's would be where we got the southern European. I no longer have an ancestry account so I have no idea what my up date would have been from my near 10 year old sample. My cousin's data is from about 2 years ago. I remember correctly my data gave me 2% Caucuses as a trace group and 1% Spain, Caucus didn't show for my cousin though. I'm not sure the Ancestry dot com data is so great for southern European ancestry with mixed north European folks. Ancestry seems to like to over estimate English in my view.

msmarjoribanks
12-03-2019, 06:20 PM
Odd, that one looks like before the last two updates.

digital_noise
12-03-2019, 08:44 PM
Yea that’s not a new update

digital_noise
12-05-2019, 05:34 PM
Here's my Ancestry experience. Its odd, the first estimate looks really close to what 23 and me is currently reporting. I do find it odd that the last two updates have gutted any trace or hint of Near East/West Asian, especially since it plays such a prominent role in South Italian genetics. If its not there, its not there, but I have seen too many other results showing it being there to accept Ancestry's estimate as accurate.

35156
35157

The current estimate is:
51% England, Wales, NW Euro
28% Germanic
11% Italy
9% Scotland-Ireland
1% Sweden

crazyladybutterfly
07-04-2020, 02:00 AM
I recently got back my ancestrydna results, and was hoping to get some help with understanding them. My supposed ethnic background based on parents and grandparents would be 75% Italian and 25% Ukrainian, but these were my percentages:

Italy/Greece 51%
Europe East 20%
Caucasus 11%
Middle East 8%
European Jewish 4%
North Africa 2%
Scandinavia <1
Iberian Peninsula <1
Finland/Northwest Russia >1
Ireland <1

I know that the Caucasus/Middle East often shows up with Italians, but a combined percentage of 19% West Asian ethnicity seems high to me considering what I know of my background? I’m just not sure what this indicates, and was wondering whether other Italians have also come out this high or even higher. Can anyone recommend an admixture tool on gedmatch that might be helpful with looking into this?

it isn't "high" because it gives you east european too which pushes you "north"

Neuro
09-13-2020, 02:53 PM
Updated results

Southern Italy 51% (genetic communities: Sicily and Umbria, Abruzzo, & Lazio)
Balkans 21%
Eastern Europe & Russia 10%
Greece & Albania 6%
Northern Italy 5%
France 4%
European Jewish 3%

Overall this update doesn't seem as accurate as the previous one. I like that they've now distinguished between Northern and Southern Italy, but I'm surprised at the Balkan percentage (especially since it was pretty low in previous estimates) and that it's more than the Eastern European. The French just seems random. I'm more inclined to think that there's something to the Jewish percentage because low amounts (1-5%) have shown up in my mom's results and in other relatives on her Ukrainian side pretty consistently across updates.

These are my mom's results to compare (half Italian/half Ukrainian):

Eastern Europe & Russia 34%
Southern Italy 33% (genetic communities: Sicily)
Balkans 13%
Greece & Albania 12%
European Jewish 5%
Norway 2%
Finland 1%

Neuro
09-23-2020, 10:45 PM
I don't

felipesc25
01-25-2021, 09:09 PM
The Caucasian and Middle Eastern dna in Southern Italians came from two populations, first indo-european anatolian population that mixed with italic tribes, second from Phoenician Colonists in Sicily and Slaves of Cartagenean DNA that spread out the peninsula with roman colonization. We should say that southern italians get more from Roman Imperial Period, so, might be a mix between Italic+Anatolian+Greek+Phoenician , very close to calabrian_DNA, with some extra italic, phoenician, illyrian and greek contribution(some norman and vandal but not a lot), so, make sense Turkey, Caucasus or Levantine dna in South Italians.

Nino90
01-26-2021, 01:55 PM
The Caucasian and Middle Eastern dna in Southern Italians came from two populations, first indo-european anatolian population that mixed with italic tribes, second from Phoenician Colonists in Sicily and Slaves of Cartagenean DNA that spread out the peninsula with roman colonization. We should say that southern italians get more from Roman Imperial Period, so, might be a mix between Italic+Anatolian+Greek+Phoenician , very close to calabrian_DNA, with some extra italic, phoenician, illyrian and greek contribution(some norman and vandal but not a lot), so, make sense Turkey, Caucasus or Levantine dna in South Italians.

Indo-European Anatolian population? What are you talking about? Their is no Indo-European Anatolians except the Greeks in West Anatolia.

eolien
02-01-2021, 01:57 PM
Indo-European Anatolian population? What are you talking about? Their is no Indo-European Anatolians except the Greeks in West Anatolia.

What about Lycian, Lydian and Phrygian and before that Luwian, Hittite language? They are all Indo-European.