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curiousII
09-01-2016, 01:20 AM
I just ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test before their sizzlin' summer sale ended. Good move? Reliable results?

C J Wyatt III
09-01-2016, 02:01 AM
I just ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test before their sizzlin' summer sale ended. Good move? Reliable results?

Yes, good move. Have you already done autosomal testing with other vendors or any other type of DNA testing?

Jack

curiousII
09-01-2016, 07:19 AM
Have you already done autosomal testing with other vendors or any other type of DNA testing?
Right, I took an autosomal test with another company back in 2012. That's a number of years ago now and that company did CODIS marker tests. I won't air my confusion about the results of that test yet, I'll wait to see what Family Tree says.

But things should be more understandable here since I've done haplogroups and SNPs at Family Tree, and backed those tests up with a couple of tests at YSEQ.

And thanks, Jack. Your input is always helpful.

leonardo
09-01-2016, 10:34 AM
I just ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test before their sizzlin' summer sale ended. Good move? Reliable results?

I have tested with FTDNA, Ancestry DNA and 23andMe, and I find FTDNA the most reliable, especially in the past. I write this because when I would go to Gedmatch, I would have many matches with those who had tested at FTDNA, but weren't on my match list there. They apparently had set the bar high for listed matches. Recently, FTDNA relaxed their criteria to listing matches. Still, I recently found a match on Gedmatch that is not on my match list at FTDNA.

evon
09-01-2016, 11:01 AM
I just ordered FTDNA's Family Finder test before their sizzlin' summer sale ended. Good move? Reliable results?

You made the right choice :) They are, by the way, currently updating their autosomal calculator, so the old Myorigins will be replaced soon...

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-01-2016, 12:19 PM
I've just received my test kit - possibly as a lead in to Big Y. I tested Chromo 2 previously (I'm in the UK).
I really don't know what to expect as this is a new area for me.

curiousII
09-01-2016, 01:18 PM
I've just received my test kit - possibly as a lead in to Big Y.

Yeah, me too. I'll probably end up doing the bigY and I'm sort of trickling money to Family Tree along the way, but I guess it all pays off in the long run. I've read that the bigy doesn't test for DF27, so maybe these SNP and Backbone tests I've done will help figure things out especially when combined with my YSEQ results. Honest with myself, I doubt if I'd have done the FF test if there hadn't been such a good sale on it. That one I took with the other company really made me have a reaction of sorts; I switched companies to FTDNA and I'm a lot happier here.

But I'll have to wait to see what my Family Finder says. I'm in America, and I read that many Americans get shocking and unexpected results from their autosomal tests. So I guess it wasn't just me.

Dr_McNinja
09-01-2016, 05:27 PM
$69 was the best price. I got the results for one kit within two weeks. Then ordered two more before the sale ended.

vettor
09-01-2016, 06:06 PM
You made the right choice :) They are, by the way, currently updating their autosomal calculator, so the old Myorigins will be replaced soon...

I presume you are saying they will keep myorigins but one's numbers would have changed...........like my wife's where 2 months ago
or
Are you saying they will replaced myOrigins with something completely different?

evon
09-01-2016, 06:30 PM
I presume you are saying they will keep myorigins but one's numbers would have changed...........like my wife's where 2 months ago
or
Are you saying they will replaced myOrigins with something completely different?

Something new, Myorigins v2.0 is my guess, but they might even rename it...was suppose to be out in March, but it has been delayed due to some problems...Spoke to a guy working for FTDNA and he said it would come out soon..Razib khan said the same, so let us hope it will be released soon..

curiousII
09-17-2016, 01:23 AM
My FF test is in, that's pretty fast work. the myOrigins analysis isn't done yet, but I have 1,317 matches, the top ones at 180, 96, and 95 cM's and I've already gotten an email from that family. Turns out we're related on my mom's side, and I actually know one of the relatives they're talking about.

Now that's efficient.

curiousII
09-22-2016, 02:04 PM
I think I've gotten this figured out some:11776

Click on it and I think it'll open. Anyway.

I was surprised with these results. You'll see my map's predominantly the UK. No North African, no Southern Italy, and absolutely no color in Iberia at all. A slight tinge in France, but no blob in Spain or Portugal at all.

No Native American, no SSA, and only 2% Middle Eastern. I'm DF27>Z2573 and I thought for sure I'd have a lot of NA in, at least, South America due to the type of colonization that the Iberians practiced there. I know, autosomal DNA changes every few centuries, but this is something new.

This is a GEDMatch Eurogenes K13 calculation. This looks more normal as it's got some non-European fractional percentages included; I've read that values under 1% are usually discounted as "statistical noise;" I thought I'd have had higher North African and, due to Iberia's past contact with Moslem invasions, maybe some SSA. But this is what the Eurogenes calculation says:

Population

North_Atlantic 44.07
Baltic 27.56
West_Med 13.68
West_Asian 3.06
East_Med 8.03
Red_Sea 0.72
South_Asian 1.40
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.91
Amerindian 0.33
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.09
Sub-Saharan 0.16

Shadogowah
09-23-2016, 11:04 AM
[This post is duplicated]

Shadogowah
09-23-2016, 11:04 AM
Hi curiousII,

Despite the narrative of Spain being a genetic melting pot, studies show that spaniards genes actually have very small contributions that could be associated to North Africa (around 5%) and there are open discussions about their origin as it seems there could have arrived during roman times.

If you look back to history the muslim population that enter into Iberia during the muslim invasion could be classified in three main groups: bereberians, arabs... and slavic. (Arabs being the smallest one). Thus the most of the contribution was due to bereberians and slavic people converted to Islam.

The invasion was quick and the presence of Islam in Iberia lasted for 700 years but when reading about iberian history you probably skipped the part where the Catholic Kings (Ferdinand and Isabella) and their descendants practiced a sort of "religious cleansing" afterwards by first making life very difficult to muslims (and jews) and later physically kicking them out by sucessive deportation edicts.

Initially these people were allowed to stay if they converted to Christianity but they eventually relapsed or were forced to leave (they were not considered "cristianos viejos" and were still subject of continuous discrimination and the usual escapegoats for any problem). They were probably very few that managed to survive in such a racist and oppresive atmosphere, nowasdays data seems to confirm that their contribution to the pool was actually very small. As extensive areas were depopulated due to this expulsions, they were later repopulated with settlers coming from christian areas. Actually you can find today that East Andalusia, the region where the last muslim kingdom of Granada survived until 1492 is actually the area in Spain where its people have the lowest percentages (*).

Moorish population revolted several times uselessly hoping that their muslim brothers the ottomans would help them. They also collaborated with barbary coast pirats that actually were their relatives. Their hopes never materialized and their revolts only brought further expulsions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Moriscos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhambra_Decree


I am Spanish, actually andalusian. My family is andalusian up to seven generations and even when one of my great grandmothers came from Melilla (Spanish city in North Africa) Eurogenes K13 tells me I have 2% West African and 4% Read Sea... And I have twice that much of Baltic (12%). I guess these cool and exotic percentages will quickly disappear in my son and his descendants.

My point being: If you had iberian ancestors, the african contributions you would expect to see would have probably been diluted in one or two generations as the average is about 5%.

(*) High percentages of NW African components you can actually find in a place in Spain: The Canary Islands, but this is due to the fact that original native population there before the castillians arrived was related to the bereberians, thus nothing to do with the muslim invasion.

curiousII
09-23-2016, 12:34 PM
Hi curiousIIHi! Thanks for your response.

Actually I've taken a few history courses. Never been to a university, but I have gone to local community colleges and have also taken a number of online classes. One college has a pretty good history department, and I've taken a couple of European history courses.

I'd never heard of the Iberian Crusades before this, the only Crusades I'd known about were the ones in the Holy Land. But when they had the Crusades in Spain (and France, if I remember right) concerning how to worship the Holy Spirit, these predated the Holy Land crusades by a couple of hundred years, didn't they? Long before Moorish Spain, too, if I'm remembering correctly. I know I'm not thinking about the Reconquista: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista

What was that religious order that Rome quashed in the early A.D.'s? I think that's the one, but I'll have to check my texts.

The reason I'm mentioning this is that there was much European genetic influence in France and Spain early after Christ, a few centuries before Mohammedanism. This genetic footprint was European and not North African or SSA. So, I agree with your assertion of varied DNA in Spain. In fact, this is the population analysis I got from the autosomal test I took in 2012 from another company. That was a CODIS marker test; something else I mention frequently as it's far different from FTDNA's process. I'm much happier here and you can see why I was so surprised at my Family Finder result:

World Population Matches
Iraqi (n = 103)
Aboriginal - Western Australian (n = 659)
Italian - Tuscany (n = 188)
South African - European - Capetown (n = 98)
Serbian (n = 200)
Lithuania - Vilnius (n = 140)
British
Vietnamese - British Columbia (n = 50)
Brazilian - Non-Black - Florida (n = 104)
Serbian - Serbia / Vojvodina / Montenegro (n = 100)
Russia - Novgorod (n = 59)
Spanish - Andalusian (n = 100)
Romanian - Transylvania/Banat (n = 219)
Spanish - Andalusian (n = 114)
East Indian - Canadian (n = 167)
Spanish - Galicia (n = 122)
White - Alabama (n = 75)
Australian - Western (n = 2645)
White - North Carolina (n = 372)
Native American - Michigan (n = 29)
Northern Australian - White (n = 4,850)
Portuguese - Madeira (n =100)
Italian (n = 223)
Spanish/Moroccan - Moroccan Arabs (n = 47)
White - U.S (n = 200)
Greek (n = 205)
White - Minnesota (n = 75)
White - Marion County, Indiana (n = 170)
White - Kentucky (n = 349)
White - Swiss (n = 206)
Slovenian (n = 193)
White - U.S. (n = 102)
Norwegian (n = 1380)
White - Virginia (n = 99)
White - U.S. (n = 3,915)
Swedish (n = 311)
Iberian Peninsula - Basque (n = 50)
Portuguese - Northern (n = 427)
Portuguese - Northern (n = 250)
White - Virginia (n = 174)
Portuguese - Northern (n = 108)
Bosnian (n = 210)
Greek (n = 143)
White - Maine (n = 151)
White - Florida (n = 117)
Hispanic - Michigan (n = 75)
Polish - Northern (n = 145)
Spanish - Northeast (n = 204)
Portuguese - Porto region (n = 39)
Polish (n = 870)

Shadogowah
09-23-2016, 03:45 PM
The Reconquista.. fuuu, well, it is a bit of a long history (700 years) with a lot of digressions and lot of things to comment and clarify... but summarizing, yes, during some points in history the Christian kings in Spain convinced the Pope a few times to call for a Crusade. But "the big one" that ended with the battle of "Las Navas de Tolosa" actually happened at the same time more or less than the ones at Holy Land. At the beginning of the XIII century I think. It was called to fight the almohad caliphate.

The rest, sorry, I didn't really understand it. It is not that Spain and France have European genetic influence... they are actually part of what means to be European as for Italy, Germany or Austria. The Spanish genetic substrate was conformed during the roman times and perhaps the Germanic and Muslim invasions added a few very small brush strokes but it has remained more or less homogeneous.