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XooR
09-04-2016, 02:28 PM
It has recently come to my attention that every Southeastern Blacksea members tested in Ancestry receive a lot of Italy/Greece in their composition even though they are predominantly/fully West Caucasian. (All of their FTDNA results are 100% Asia Minor) I have seen in some other thread that high Asia Minor component in Southwest Europeans, received from FTDNA was issued. I am thinking this must be the vice versa issue.

Also I would like to see other Caucasian People's Ancestry.com results for comparison. Currently I have only 6 Ancestry.com results that I can share.

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/SEBS%20Ancestry_zpsaq02icfn.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/SEBS%20Ancestry_zpsaq02icfn.jpg.html)
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/12974432_10153927978730168_539777217290941688_n_zp sbq5imsqf.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/12974432_10153927978730168_539777217290941688_n_zp sbq5imsqf.jpg.html)
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/12920278_10153926782420168_3199752078284984898_n_z psmuqbsmkh.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/12920278_10153926782420168_3199752078284984898_n_z psmuqbsmkh.jpg.html)
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/laz%20results_zpsnkyh0ogv.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/laz%20results_zpsnkyh0ogv.jpg.html)
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/13438817_1608867819405217_8460193740989098983_n_zp sz1y0ikfx.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/13438817_1608867819405217_8460193740989098983_n_zp sz1y0ikfx.jpg.html)

Asimakidis
09-04-2016, 05:12 PM
Indeed interesting. Conclusions? My 100% anatolian relatives (Pontic Greeks) all have 100% Asia minor, but on oracles they tend to get around those 20% Greek/Albanian/Tuscan etc.. Rest tend to be equal to Armenian. How do these people score on dna.land? Mine have always a dominant Central Indoeuropean score but then again either South Central Europe/Balkan or Med.Islander.

XooR
09-04-2016, 07:01 PM
Indeed interesting. Conclusions? My 100% anatolian relatives (Pontic Greeks) all have 100% Asia minor, but on oracles they tend to get around those 20% Greek/Albanian/Tuscan etc.. Rest tend to be equal to Armenian. How do these people score on dna.land? Mine have always a dominant Central Indoeuropean score but then again either South Central Europe/Balkan or Med.Islander.

I don't really have access to their raw data, I can only give mine (Rize1 in the chart) as an example.
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/Laz%20Pazar_zpsru0p0dzb.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/Laz%20Pazar_zpsru0p0dzb.jpg.html)

leonardo
09-04-2016, 07:22 PM
Conversely, I have 1/8 ancestry documented from Molise. I have no ancestry from Anatolia or the Caucasus, as far as I know. At FTDNA and Ancestry DNA I have a noticeable composition of 4% West Asia (FTDNA) and 5% Caucasus (Ancestry). Gedmatch's Eurogenes K13 Admixture has me at 8.62. I wonder if it is associated with the Etruscans and even other groups who who migrated to the Italian peninsula beforehand?

Larth
09-04-2016, 10:49 PM
I wonder if it is associated with the Etruscans and even other groups who who migrated to the Italian peninsula beforehand?

Very unlikely.

Asimakidis
09-05-2016, 06:20 AM
I don't really have access to their raw data, I can only give mine (Rize1 in the chart) as an example.
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/Laz%20Pazar_zpsru0p0dzb.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/Laz%20Pazar_zpsru0p0dzb.jpg.html)

Looks like the results my maternal side gets. High central indoeuropean and med. Islander/balkan/italian(south centr europe). We should open a thread where we compare different Anatolians/caucasians regardless of recent cultural identity :)

leonardo
09-05-2016, 11:46 AM
Very unlikely.

Yes, I wouldn't think so with the ancestry composition programs at FTDNA and Ancestry, which supposedly demonstrate ancestry within the last 500 years. But, the calculators at Gedmatch supposedly refelect deep, ancient ancestry. I don't believe there is any controversy regarding my contention that peoples from Asia Minor migrated to Italy before the establishment of Rome as a power.

Larth
09-05-2016, 01:14 PM
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Larth
09-05-2016, 01:18 PM
I don't believe there is any controversy regarding my contention that peoples from Asia Minor migrated to Italy before the establishment of Rome as a power.

It simply means nothing. People from Asia Minor migrated to anywhere in south-east Europe and to a lesser extent to anywhere in Europe. Turkey is a multi ethnic nation and many Europeans have been assimilated by Turks during the Ottoman Empire. There are many Turks with Greek/Albanian/Balkan ancestry in Turkey, not to mention that Western Turks were "Greek/Byzantine" for a long time before the arrival of the Turkish tribes in Anatolia. In Constantinople there were even Venetian, Genoese and Pisan colonies.

Dimanto
09-05-2016, 02:52 PM
A real non-Turkic Anatolian!

Dimanto
09-05-2016, 02:58 PM
Looks like the results my maternal side gets. High central indoeuropean and med. Islander/balkan/italian(south centr europe). We should open a thread where we compare different Anatolians/caucasians regardless of recent cultural identity :)

As if these Turkic tribes totally washed away the real inhabitants of Anatolia..don't think so. Genetics potentially could revive Turkey

Dimanto
09-05-2016, 03:01 PM
It simply means nothing. People from Asia Minor migrated to anywhere in south-east Europe and to a lesser extent to anywhere in Europe. Turkey is a multi ethnic nation and many Europeans have been assimilated by Turks during the Ottoman Empire. There are many Turks with Greek/Albanian/Balkan ancestry in Turkey, not to mention that Western Turks were "Greek/Byzantine" for a long time before the arrival of the Turkish tribes in Anatolia. In Constantinople there were even Venetian, Genoese and Pisan colonies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatia

Asimakidis
09-05-2016, 03:31 PM
My point exactly. My curiosity is to examine if these other components except the obvious central indoeuropean/caucasus are indeed remnants from Italy /Greece or to figure out what they represent.

XooR
03-12-2017, 01:29 AM
I added couple more results, apparently if you go from west to east in Blacksea, Caucasus percentage rises, on the other hand Italy/Greece percentage fluctuates so we don't really have a clear picture on it. This time I included European Jewish percentages as well since it is present in the area (even though small amounts).

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee370/xoorslug/Ancestrycom%20karadeniz_zps72p7guhp.jpg (http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/xoorslug/media/Ancestrycom%20karadeniz_zps72p7guhp.jpg.html)

Also I would like to see more results from neighboring area ( Pontic Greeks, Georgians, Armenians, Azerbaijanis, Iranians etc.) Please share if you know any results.

Thank you.

Felix50
09-04-2017, 01:30 AM
My results were as follows: (My dad's family all came from the Naples region, by maternal grandmother is Sicilian and my maternal grandfather was half English and Irish).

1% Africa north
37% Italy/Greece
16% British
15% Irish
11% Iberian
3% European Jewish
2% Europe West
14% Caucasus
1% middle east

I was kind of fascinated by the West Asia thing as I received 15% on Ancestry. I'm pretty certain that the middle east comes from my grandmother who received 8% middle east and 12% Caucasus. So...I have more Caucasus than she does. Now, I am 37% Italian whereas she is 66% on Ancestry. I'm also 11% Iberian, where she is 2% It seems like a large chunk of my DNA to belong to a non native Italian, especially considering that my grandmother's parents were all from Italy and she only gets 12%.

In Familytree it gives me 20% Asia Minor. What's interesting is that my Sicilian grandmother contains 20% Asia Minor as well, but it's breaking it down as 8% West Middle East and 12% Asia minor. My maternal side is half Sicilian and half English/Irish. So the Caucasus must be coming from my dad. He refuses to take the test.

I guess Italy was once a very diverse place, in the same way that America is right now. We're going to have different regions and varying amounts. I imagine Asia Minor or West Asia is going to be like much like British and Irish are very common in most Americans.

Xtian
09-04-2017, 08:44 AM
Im Russian, from the North Caucasus and I have received Italian DNA on a different company LivingDNA.
Its basically impossible that it is actually Italian - they have split it between North and South. This thread is very interesting.

When I do the Gedmatch I get around 10-15% Caucasus, depending on the test and no trace of any Italian.

Xtian
09-06-2017, 09:09 AM
whats your K13 Xoor?

XooR
09-06-2017, 07:53 PM
whats your K13 Xoor?

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 44.36
2 East_Med 32.94
3 West_Med 12.33
4 Red_Sea 4.39
5 Baltic 3.34
6 North_Atlantic 1.52

puntDNAL K13 Global

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 47.67
2 SW_Europe 28.18
3 SW_Asia 16.01
4 NE_Europe 5.43
5 SE_Asia 1.14

Near East Neolithic K13

gedrosia K13 Oracle

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 36.57
2 CHG_EEF 29.22
3 NATUFIAN 15.98
4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 12.67
5 POLAR 2.51
6 SE_ASIAN 2.24

Xtian
09-07-2017, 11:03 AM
eurogenes k13

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 44.29
2 North_Atlantic 22.33
3 West_Med 14.57
4 West_Asian 12.67
5 Siberian 2.80
6 Amerindian 1.81


My West Asian is up to 3x typical for where I am from. Likewise, I dont know why I have so high west Med. I've done the JTEST- no Askenazi found. The likelihood of an Italian or Spaniard in Southern Russia in Soviet/Tsar times is basically zero. So its a real mystery to me. We have nearly the same West med. I wonder if its typical on Circassians.

puntdnal 13 (never ran this before)

# Population Percent
1 NE_Europe 55.71
2 SW_Europe 22.86
3 West_Asia 11.90
4 Americas 2.15
5 SE_Asia 1.78
6 Siberia 1.44
7 East_Africa 1.40
8 SW_Asia 1.33
9 South_Asia 1.14


Ged 13

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 38.56
2 EHG 19.84
3 SHG_WHG 12.53
4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 12.02
5 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 6.80
6 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 4.96
7 NATUFIAN 3.18
8 SIBERIAN 2.03

Sassoneg
09-07-2017, 12:32 PM
A personal anecdote from my father and I:

We score 3% Italian/Greek on Ancestry and we score 2%/1% Ashkenazi Jew - neither of these things have any family tree support.

On Living DNA I scored 3% Kurdish in Complete mode and 3% "World Unassigned" in Cautious/Standard.

On the GenePlaza Ancient K12 designed by Kurd here on this forum, I scored 3.5% for the northern Iran / Kurdish farmer component.

Ancestry.com is calling the Caucus and north Iran area as Italian/Greek because those people had input from the Caucus/N. Iran areas, when it's shared chunks of older DNA. It probably has to do with reference populations.

Araz95
09-18-2017, 03:04 PM
EDIT: Added some other results

Azerbaijani

EU-K13
Population Percent
North_Atlantic 4.32
Baltic 6.41
West_Med 4.71
West_Asian 37.80
East_Med 27.65
Red_Sea 5.04
South_Asian 9.21
East_Asian 1.90
Siberian 2.00
Amerindian 0.96


puntDNAL K13 Global
# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 41.69
2 SW_Europe 20.16
3 SW_Asia 14.13
4 NE_Europe 9.02
5 South_Asia 7.54
6 Siberia 2.06
7 SE_Asia 1.84
8 NE_Asia 1.7
9 Americas 1.24
10 West_Africa 0.62


Near East Neolithic K13
# Population Percent
1 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 33.72
2 CHG_EEF 24.95
3 NATUFIAN 13.15
4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 8.73
5 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 6.21
6 EHG 5.6
7 SE_ASIAN 3.13
8 SIBERIAN 2.6

And i get 10-20% Italian/greek on most services. I've been very interested in those specific 20% since day one - wondering where it come from.

JerryS.
09-18-2017, 05:46 PM
More proof that if you are 25% or less of something the DNA sources are merely throwing a dart blindfolded with an educated guess

AbdoNumen
11-25-2017, 08:03 PM
A mystery indeed. Many Mountain Jews from the Caucasus (north-east) get significant Italy/Greece admixture. Needless to say, oral tradition/paper trail has no mention of it.
There's one guy especially who's haplogroup L and gets 19% Southeast Europe on myOrigins 2.0.

XooR, could you please re-post the images? I'm seeing an error ("please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting").

JerryS.
11-26-2017, 02:18 AM
Ancestry DNA seems a little light on the Italian component and I wonder if it has anything to do with them placing all of northern Italy in the Western European category?

Araz95
11-26-2017, 09:30 AM
Abdonumen, could you please upload some Gedmatch oracle results from Gedrosia or Dodcat? Would love to see your results

XooR
11-26-2017, 08:20 PM
A mystery indeed. Many Mountain Jews from the Caucasus (north-east) get significant Italy/Greece admixture. Needless to say, oral tradition/paper trail has no mention of it.
There's one guy especially who's haplogroup L and gets 19% Southeast Europe on myOrigins 2.0.

XooR, could you please re-post the images? I'm seeing an error ("please update your account to enable 3rd party hosting").

AbdoNumen,

I made up an excel sheet for results. Apparently there is an overlapping component I guess is coming from mutual neighboring area of Anatolia. The other distinguishing reason is that ancestry.com used Iranians as primary reference population for Caucasian component thus Lazs and Georgians has a split levels of Italy / Greece ( recently changed as South European by ancestry.com)

If you dont mind can you tell me where is he from and what subclade of L is he? PH8 is primarily found in Laz people

19986

19987

19988

AbdoNumen
11-27-2017, 01:11 AM
AbdoNumen,

I made up an excel sheet for results. Apparently there is an overlapping component I guess is coming from mutual neighboring area of Anatolia. The other distinguishing reason is that ancestry.com used Iranians as primary reference population for Caucasian component thus Lazs and Georgians has a split levels of Italy / Greece ( recently changed as South European by ancestry.com)

If you dont mind can you tell me where is he from and what subclade of L is he? PH8 is primarily found in Laz people

19986

19987

19988

He matched Laz people at Y12 (GD=1), however when he did the BigY he tested negative for PH8 and was placed by Yfull at a separate branch of L-Y16366*. It's hard to place it geographically since it's a very ancient SNP.

bunalim
11-19-2018, 01:31 PM
It has recently come to my attention that every Southeastern Blacksea members tested in Ancestry receive a lot of Italy/Greece in their composition even though they are predominantly/fully West Caucasian. (All of their FTDNA results are 100% Asia Minor) I have seen in some other thread that high Asia Minor component in Southwest Europeans, received from FTDNA was issued. I am thinking this must be the vice versa issue.

Also I would like to see other Caucasian People's Ancestry.com results for comparison. Currently I have only 6 Ancestry.com results that I can share.


Did you ever find out why Eastern Black Sea Turks get Greek/Italian?

NarLFC
11-25-2018, 10:52 AM
Interesting stuff.

JerryS.
11-25-2018, 03:20 PM
I'm far from being well versed, but I have learned a few things since joining this board. DNA has quite a bit of overlap for regions that border each other... DNA does not stop at the border like a nations name does. next, dominating countries, kingdoms, tribes, empires... of ancient times spread their genes well beyond their modern borders. The Roman Empire and Alexander the Great's army would have brought Mediterranean DNA into the Caucuses and the middle east beyond those regions own shores with it. Add in the trade of merchant selling good and slaves back and forth and it becomes a little easier to see how a Black Sea group could have shared DNA with a Mediterranean Sea group. at least this is what makes sense to me. mind you I have no authoritative work to back this up....

asm
02-07-2019, 10:45 PM
It has recently come to my attention that every Southeastern Blacksea members tested in Ancestry receive a lot of Italy/Greece in their composition even though they are predominantly/fully West Caucasian. (All of their FTDNA results are 100% Asia Minor)

Without doubt,MyOrigins gives quite exaggerated Asia Minor to some people from Caucasus.Some chunk of Asia Minor is Southern Middle Eastern/Levantine and South Eastern European origin actually.Whose data used for reference for Asia Minor?Armenians and Anatolian Turks?Aren't they very mixed people with Levantines and Southern Europeans since ancient times?

XooR
03-04-2019, 03:04 AM
Without doubt,MyOrigins gives quite exaggerated Asia Minor to some people from Caucasus.Some chunk of Asia Minor is Southern Middle Eastern/Levantine and South Eastern European origin actually.Whose data used for reference for Asia Minor?Armenians and Anatolian Turks?Aren't they very mixed people with Levantines and Southern Europeans since ancient times?

Well,

Ancestry updated their algorithm and now my results are 100% Turkey and the Caucasus. Like I suspected before chunk of ancient Caucasus or early farmer was labeled under Italy / Greece, now they fixed it and results are much better.

As for Myorigin I am not sure who they used as reference, of course every people mixed to an extend, Laz people was and are relatively isolated thousands of years. There wasn't any kind of migration to southeastern Blacksea area from Levantine or South Europe which affected local DNA.