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jpb
09-16-2016, 03:11 AM
Hello-
My mom is of English, Irish, and German descent. She just got her Ancestry results back and it says she is 5% Iberian. I find this really cool and would like to know if where this came from, or if it is just a statistical fluke.
Her Ancestry results are:
54% Europe West
13% Scandinavia
13% Great Britain
8% Ireland
5% Iberian Peninsula
4% Italy/Greece
3% Europe East

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15:
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 35.24
2 Atlantic 24.31
3 Eastern_Euro 11.23
4 Baltic 11.15
5 West_Med 10.66
6 East_Med 4.15
7 West_Asian 1.67
8 Oceanian 0.62
9 Red_Sea 0.5
10 South_Asian 0.35
11 Siberian 0.1

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_German 5.06
2 Southwest_English 5.63
3 Danish 5.86
4 North_Dutch 5.86
5 Southeast_English 6.09
6 South_Dutch 6.16
7 Norwegian 6.58
8 North_German 6.68
9 West_Scottish 7.51
10 Irish 7.58
11 Swedish 7.83
12 Orcadian 7.98
13 West_Norwegian 8.12
14 North_Swedish 9.43
15 French 9.88
16 East_German 10.47
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.09
18 Hungarian 14.51
19 Austrian 14.96
20 Finnish 16.99


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.8% Norwegian + 25.2% Portuguese @ 2.22
2 73.9% Norwegian + 26.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.25
3 76.5% Norwegian + 23.5% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.3
4 88.1% Norwegian + 11.9% Sardinian @ 2.32
5 76.6% Norwegian + 23.4% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.33
6 73.6% Norwegian + 26.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.39
7 79.4% Norwegian + 20.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.4
8 78% Norwegian + 22% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.41
9 78.7% Norwegian + 21.3% North_Italian @ 2.49
10 61.1% Norwegian + 38.9% French @ 2.53
11 78.5% Norwegian + 21.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.58
12 77.2% Norwegian + 22.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.6
13 75.9% Norwegian + 24.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.64
14 79.2% Norwegian + 20.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.69
15 78% Norwegian + 22% Southwest_French @ 2.85
16 74.7% West_Norwegian + 25.3% North_Italian @ 2.87
17 70.7% West_Norwegian + 29.3% Portuguese @ 2.98
18 52.1% South_Dutch + 47.9% Norwegian @ 3.03
19 69.8% West_Norwegian + 30.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.04
20 75.8% West_Norwegian + 24.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.07


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian +50% South_Dutch @ 3.430001

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian +25% Norwegian +25% Portuguese @ 2.409259

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Portuguese + West_Norwegian @ 2.358618
2 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Norwegian @ 2.386659
3 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Portuguese @ 2.409259
4 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia + West_Norwegian @ 2.410862
5 North_Swedish + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.419895
6 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna + West_Norwegian @ 2.475231
7 North_Swedish + Portuguese + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.479259
8 North_Swedish + Spanish_Murcia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.490508
9 Danish + North_Swedish + Spanish_Galicia + West_Norwegian @ 2.525535
10 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Portuguese @ 2.525784
11 Danish + North_Swedish + Portuguese + West_Norwegian @ 2.528695
12 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.529537
13 North_Swedish + Spanish_Valencia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.555996
14 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.559922
15 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.580992
16 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.581398
17 North_Swedish + Spanish_Andalucia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.583307
18 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.588709
19 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.600038
20 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Valencia + West_Norwegian @ 2.606319

Her DNA.Land results:
94% Northwestern European
3.3% Sardinian
2.7% North Slavic

What do you think?

sktibo
09-16-2016, 03:42 AM
Hello-
My mom is of English, Irish, and German descent. She just got her Ancestry results back and it says she is 5% Iberian. I find this really cool and would like to know if where this came from, or if it is just a statistical fluke.
Her Ancestry results are:
54% Europe West
13% Scandinavia
13% Great Britain
8% Ireland
5% Iberian Peninsula
4% Italy/Greece
3% Europe East

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15:
# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 35.24
2 Atlantic 24.31
3 Eastern_Euro 11.23
4 Baltic 11.15
5 West_Med 10.66
6 East_Med 4.15
7 West_Asian 1.67
8 Oceanian 0.62
9 Red_Sea 0.5
10 South_Asian 0.35
11 Siberian 0.1

# Population (source) Distance
1 West_German 5.06
2 Southwest_English 5.63
3 Danish 5.86
4 North_Dutch 5.86
5 Southeast_English 6.09
6 South_Dutch 6.16
7 Norwegian 6.58
8 North_German 6.68
9 West_Scottish 7.51
10 Irish 7.58
11 Swedish 7.83
12 Orcadian 7.98
13 West_Norwegian 8.12
14 North_Swedish 9.43
15 French 9.88
16 East_German 10.47
17 Southwest_Finnish 14.09
18 Hungarian 14.51
19 Austrian 14.96
20 Finnish 16.99


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.8% Norwegian + 25.2% Portuguese @ 2.22
2 73.9% Norwegian + 26.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.25
3 76.5% Norwegian + 23.5% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.3
4 88.1% Norwegian + 11.9% Sardinian @ 2.32
5 76.6% Norwegian + 23.4% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.33
6 73.6% Norwegian + 26.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.39
7 79.4% Norwegian + 20.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.4
8 78% Norwegian + 22% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.41
9 78.7% Norwegian + 21.3% North_Italian @ 2.49
10 61.1% Norwegian + 38.9% French @ 2.53
11 78.5% Norwegian + 21.5% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.58
12 77.2% Norwegian + 22.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.6
13 75.9% Norwegian + 24.1% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.64
14 79.2% Norwegian + 20.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.69
15 78% Norwegian + 22% Southwest_French @ 2.85
16 74.7% West_Norwegian + 25.3% North_Italian @ 2.87
17 70.7% West_Norwegian + 29.3% Portuguese @ 2.98
18 52.1% South_Dutch + 47.9% Norwegian @ 3.03
19 69.8% West_Norwegian + 30.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.04
20 75.8% West_Norwegian + 24.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.07


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian +50% South_Dutch @ 3.430001

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Norwegian +25% Norwegian +25% Portuguese @ 2.409259

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Portuguese + West_Norwegian @ 2.358618
2 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Norwegian @ 2.386659
3 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Portuguese @ 2.409259
4 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia + West_Norwegian @ 2.410862
5 North_Swedish + Spanish_Extremadura + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.419895
6 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna + West_Norwegian @ 2.475231
7 North_Swedish + Portuguese + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.479259
8 North_Swedish + Spanish_Murcia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.490508
9 Danish + North_Swedish + Spanish_Galicia + West_Norwegian @ 2.525535
10 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Portuguese @ 2.525784
11 Danish + North_Swedish + Portuguese + West_Norwegian @ 2.528695
12 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.529537
13 North_Swedish + Spanish_Valencia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.555996
14 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.559922
15 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.580992
16 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.581398
17 North_Swedish + Spanish_Andalucia + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 2.583307
18 Norwegian + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Murcia @ 2.588709
19 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Norwegian + Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.600038
20 North_Swedish + Norwegian + Spanish_Valencia + West_Norwegian @ 2.606319

Her DNA.Land results:
94% Northwestern European
3.3% Sardinian
2.7% North Slavic

What do you think?

I'm no expert but one possibility is that the Iberian might be coming from her Irish... I've seen a few people from Spain (Galicia especially) that score pretty high in Ancestry's Irish category. So maybe it can go both ways to some extent.

Jessie
09-16-2016, 06:27 AM
I'm no expert but one possibility is that the Iberian might be coming from her Irish... I've seen a few people from Spain (Galicia especially) that score pretty high in Ancestry's Irish category. So maybe it can go both ways to some extent.

That's the least likely option. It is due to geographic proximity so populations closer to Spain/Portugal are more likely to have some overlapping. A southern French person would likely get very high Iberian. German people usually will get a reasonable amount of Iberian especially Southern Germans and this is most likely the reason for the 4% Italy/Greek as well. Generally the more distant a population is from the source the smaller percentage they will get.

I'm 100% Irish and I have 0 Iberian which is not a great surprise as Irish people get very high percentages of Ireland. I get 91% Ireland.

I'm always intrigued why people connect Iberian with Irish ancestry.

Regarding the Ireland component in Ancestry it is mostly found in Ireland, Scotland and Wales and then the other areas are England and France.

sktibo
09-16-2016, 06:46 AM
That's the least likely option. It is due to geographic proximity so populations closer to Spain/Portugal are more likely to have some overlapping. A southern French person would likely get very high Iberian. German people usually will get a reasonable amount of Iberian especially Southern Germans and this is most likely the reason for the 4% Italy/Greek as well. Generally the more distant a population is from the source the smaller percentage they will get.

I'm 100% Irish and I have 0 Iberian which is not a great surprise as Irish people get very high percentages of Ireland. I get 91% Ireland.

I'm always intrigued why people connect Iberian with Irish ancestry.

Regarding the Ireland component in Ancestry it is mostly found in Ireland, Scotland and Wales and then the other areas are England and France.

In my experience, I was told about the Irish/Iberian thing by a (Scottish) Gaelic speaking woman who was also a historian. She was of the opinion that the origins of the Irish and the Gaelic Scottish peoples were based in Northwestern Spain. I've seen this from other Scottish sources as well, one that comes to mind was in a book called "Crowdie and Cream, memoirs of a Hebridean Childhood" (Author Finlay MacDonald, from the Isle of Harris), he wrote about a girl who had black hair, and about how his people thought that this black hair came from their Iberian ancestors long ago. So perhaps the idea of an Iberian "connection" doesn't come from Ireland really, but more from the Scottish Isles? Perhaps it isn't correct but I am guilty of grouping your people and the Western Scottish together. Anyhow, I thought you might find this interesting. The reason that I suggested an Iberian/Irish connection was more based upon my reading of Spanish AncestryDNA users scoring high levels of Irish.
I do appreciate you sharing that despite being a full blooded Irish person you got no Iberian result on your test, I think it is always good to challenge these ideas - Although my Gaelic Hebridean sources do seem to think there is a connection, it doesn't necessarily mean it is so.

Jessie
09-16-2016, 07:03 AM
In my experience, I was told about the Irish/Iberian thing by a (Scottish) Gaelic speaking woman who was also a historian. She was of the opinion that the origins of the Irish and the Gaelic Scottish peoples were based in Northwestern Spain. I've seen this from other Scottish sources as well, one that comes to mind was in a book called "Crowdie and Cream, memoirs of a Hebridean Childhood" (Author Finlay MacDonald, from the Isle of Harris), he wrote about a girl who had black hair, and about how his people thought that this black hair came from their Iberian ancestors long ago. So perhaps the idea of an Iberian "connection" doesn't come from Ireland really, but more from the Scottish Isles? Perhaps it isn't correct but I am guilty of grouping your people and the Western Scottish together. Anyhow, I thought you might find this interesting. The reason that I suggested an Iberian/Irish connection was more based upon my reading of Spanish AncestryDNA users scoring high levels of Irish.
I do appreciate you sharing that despite being a full blooded Irish person you got no Iberian result on your test, I think it is always good to challenge these ideas - Although my Gaelic Hebridean sources do seem to think there is a connection, it doesn't necessarily mean it is so.

Thank you. Yes it is a misconception. Even the Irish Book of Invasions has this. Unfortunately they are not based on fact. The Irish Book of Invasions was written by Irish Medieval monks as a history of the Irish people alot of Scottish origin myths are from Irish sources. It is basically an origin myth. The Irish Book of Invasions also states the Irish were partly Egyptian from Queen Scota (as well as Scythian) but I don't see many people quoting that. :) Looking at genetics there is no obvious link. Thanks for sharing but I was just curious why people make this connection. It most likely has alot to do with these origin myths also the Spanish Armada stories.

sktibo
09-16-2016, 07:16 AM
Thank you. Yes it is a misconception. Even the Irish Book of Invasions has this. Unfortunately they are not based on fact. The Irish Book of Invasions was written by Irish Medieval monks as a history of the Irish people alot of Scottish origin myths are from Irish sources. It is basically an origin myth. The Irish Book of Invasions also states the Irish were partly Egyptian from Queen Scota (as well as Scythian) but I don't see many people quoting that. :) Looking at genetics there is no obvious link. Thanks for sharing but I was just curious why people make this connection. It most likely has alot to do with these origin myths also the Spanish Armada stories.

It is all very interesting stuff, and I'm enjoying talking about it with you. The Spanish Armada story makes me think of something else, but I don't have time to dig it up now. I'm mostly writing this reply so that I'll remember to do that later!

09-16-2016, 07:18 AM
Yeah those Armada stories, and other stories, always seem to pop up, I got dark brown hair and brown eyes, and typical "Black Irish" looks lets say, as they were used to be called, it was one of the reasons why I wanted to do a DNA test actually, because I looked a bit different, some people used to say you "must have something in you", but Sadly I cannot find anything in paper trail or DNA, or DNA matches to link anything why this look prevails at least in me.

Jessie
09-16-2016, 07:56 AM
Yeah those Armada stories, and other stories, always seem to pop up, I got dark brown hair and brown eyes, and typical "Black Irish" looks lets say, as they were used to be called, it was one of the reasons why I wanted to do a DNA test actually, because I looked a bit different, some people used to say you "must have something in you", but Sadly I cannot find anything in paper trail or DNA, or DNA matches to link anything why this look prevails at least in me.

Some people have odd ideas. We've all heard that the red hair came from the Vikings. :) Not sure where that idea came from either.

sktibo
09-16-2016, 04:12 PM
Yeah those Armada stories, and other stories, always seem to pop up, I got dark brown hair and brown eyes, and typical "Black Irish" looks lets say, as they were used to be called, it was one of the reasons why I wanted to do a DNA test actually, because I looked a bit different, some people used to say you "must have something in you", but Sadly I cannot find anything in paper trail or DNA, or DNA matches to link anything why this look prevails at least in me.

I've met a ton of people from Ireland and Britain who are very dark, with brown eyes. I always figured it was a common look in that part of the world.. what's really funny about it is that some of them have said something about them thinking it's strange they're so dark. Two of my friends (a brother and sister) were primarily of Welsh ethnicity, and we would often tease them (This was high school) about looking "Mexican". One year the older one just said "Screw it" and put on a poncho and a sombrero for Halloween.

Regarding Armada stories, the family tree my aunt made up used to have a bunch of Spanish people in one of the British lines a good while back, but it seems this has been removed. I was going to argue that there seemed to be some trace of some kind of Spanish immigration into Britain but I've lost any sort of evidence I had for such an argument. I've read a good number of AncestryDNA test takers from France score Iberian, I wonder if the OP has any French?... It could be the 5% Iberian just happens to fit better in the ethnic prediction than any of the other references...

sktibo
09-16-2016, 04:24 PM
Some people have odd ideas. We've all heard that the red hair came from the Vikings. :) Not sure where that idea came from either.

A few vikings noted in sagas are named things like "The Red". For example, Erik the Red supposedly had red hair and a red beard. I think red hair is just a European thing in general.. I'd say it's a northern European thing but I've met some people from Spain who were very ginger. A quick google search came up with an article arguing that Scandinavians brought red hair to Scotland, so it might be stuff like that making people think red hair comes from Vikings. What I find really interesting is that you, someone from Ireland, has heard that red hair came from Vikings. As a North American (Canadian) person, the common misconception over here seems to be that red hair is an Irish thing. I wonder where they say it comes from in Scandinavian countries?

Dubhthach
09-16-2016, 04:52 PM
I'm Irish and I've got 0% Iberian in AncestryDNA,

With regards to Armada, people seem to forget that the English regime in Dublin castle systematically massacred any Armada survivors that they captured, there are several mass graves in Ireland where survivors were executed. They also cracked down hard on any of Gaelic lords who might have been able to help survivors, this is right in middle of the "Tudor conquest of Ireland" after all.

jpb
09-16-2016, 10:32 PM
Regarding Armada stories, the family tree my aunt made up used to have a bunch of Spanish people in one of the British lines a good while back, but it seems this has been removed. I was going to argue that there seemed to be some trace of some kind of Spanish immigration into Britain but I've lost any sort of evidence I had for such an argument. I've read a good number of AncestryDNA test takers from France score Iberian, I wonder if the OP has any French?... It could be the 5% Iberian just happens to fit better in the ethnic prediction than any of the other references...

My mom has no French ancestry. 5/8 Colonial American, 1/4 recent German, 1/8 recent Irish.

sktibo
09-16-2016, 10:43 PM
My mom has no French ancestry. 5/8 Colonial American, 1/4 recent German, 1/8 recent Irish.

must be somewhere random from colonial American, my mother has a tiny bit of Spanish from her colonial American ancestry, and it showed up on two of my DNA tests in small amounts. So there were Iberians thrown into the colonial American mix, I can say with some certainty.

geebee
09-17-2016, 01:05 AM
Certainly there were French Huguenots in the colonial American mix, and "Iberian" does sometimes show up in people with French ancestry.

My wife recently got her results back from Ancestry. As expected, her largest component was Great Britain (44%), followed by Ireland (27%) and Scandinavia (14%).

She also had several "trace" regions, most of which were still under the "Europe" heading: European Jewish (4%), Iberian (4%), Europe West (2%), Italy/Greece (2%), and Europe East (less than 1%).

She has no known Spanish ancestry, but she definitely does have some Huguenot lines. If you look at Ancestry's description of the "Iberian Peninsula" category, you'll see that it is "also found in France, Morocco, Algeria, [and] Italy".

But it's also informative to look at Iberian Peninsula on Ancestry's map. You'll see that the most intense yellowy-orange* region is located within the Iberian peninsula -- including Portugal -- but bands of less intense color extend as far as southeastern Ireland, pretty much all of Wales, and southern England.

Also included in the lighter bands are France, Belgium, Switzerland, and Italy.

Another point of interest -- to me, anyway -- is that "the typical native" (of the Iberian peninsula) apparently only gets about 51% Iberian Peninsula. Some of the other ethnicities found among natives of the Iberian peninsula include: Italy/Greece, Great Britain, Ireland, Africa North, and Europe West.

[*At least that's how I'd describe the color on my monitor.]

geebee
09-17-2016, 02:22 AM
It also depends on what one considers "colonial American". If you're focusing solely on the 13 colonies that became the original states of "The United States", then there likely wasn't that much actual Spanish or Portuguese. "Not much" isn't quite the same as "none", of course.

But, Ancestry makes it very clear that Iberian Peninsula shows up among the French, as well as some others. So my point is that Iberian Peninsula might be pointing back to, say, French ancestors from the colonial era.

However, if don't just focus on the 13 original colonies, but include lands acquired by the U.S. very soon after independence, then there might well be some actual Iberian ancestry. For example, some of my maternal grandmother's European ancestry was already situated along the Gulf coast a full century before the Louisiana purchase in 1803.

In this case they were French rather than Spanish; but some were from southern France and I suspect would have had a fairly significant Iberian Peninsula component. Plus, there's Florida to consider. It includes the oldest European-established city in the U.S.: St. Augustine. (Well, oldest "continuously occupied city", anyway.) It dates back to 1565, or about 42 years before Jamestown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Augustine,_Florida.

To give a specific example, there's my earliest known mtDNA ancestress. Whether you want to call her "colonial American" or not, and she was born in North America during the colonial period -- in about 1726, in fact. But it took another three generations before her line joined that of one of my ancestors from a more traditionally "colonial American" line: her great granddaughter married a man whose grandfather had served in Georgia's Provincial Congress during the Revolutionary War.

geebee
09-17-2016, 02:43 AM
I guess the short answer to the OP's question, though, is that his mother's Iberian Peninsula may very well not reflect any actual Spanish ancestry. Or if it does, it could be from before the colonial period. It's likely that even among the British colonists, some would have had a component that Ancestry would identify as Iberian Peninsula.

It's worth noting that Ancestry shows that from "a collection of 195 people [native to Great Britain]", 24% had some amount of Iberian Peninsula. Granted, what is true for this sample of the British today would not necessarily have been true during the colonial period -- though my suspicion is that it would have been.

And, of course, as I suggested previously there are also French Huguenots to consider. They were definitely present. For example, Gouverneur Morris -- who had a significant part in crafting the U.S. constitution -- was given his mother's family name as his first name. Her family were French Huguenots who eventually settled in New Amsterdam.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_Morris

The region that would include France would be Europe West. And for this region, Ancestry says that 23% of "a collection of 416 people [native to Europe West]" have some amount of Iberian Peninsula. This is pretty similar to the percentage of the collection of people from Great Britain -- but keep in mind that "Europe West" not only includes France, but also Germany.

I suspect that if only France were included, the percentage with Iberian Peninsula would be somewhat higher.

geebee
09-17-2016, 03:16 AM
I'm actually in the opposite situation of the OP. I have relatively recent ancestors from Spain -- both of my maternal grandmother's grandfathers were Minorcan immigrants -- which works out to about 12.5% of my ancestry. Yet my Iberian Peninsula is lower (9%).

But, it's quite likely that even my great grandfathers wouldn't have tested as "100% Iberian Peninsula". In fact, Ancestry says that "a typical native" has about 51% Iberian Peninsula. That's based on "a collection of 125 people [native to the region]"; but I have no idea whether they're all from the mainland, or if any are from the Balearic islands.

Still, here's something we should all keep in mind. While some of the residents of a particular region actually show as high as 100% of that region, by no means do all. In fact, in some regions the "typical native" shows a lot less.

For example, the typical native of Great Britain reportedly shows 60% (again, among "a collection" of some size, who may or may not be fully representative). For Ireland, it's much higher -- 95%. But for Europe West it's only 48%, so not all that much greater than my own 44%.

jpb
09-17-2016, 03:28 AM
How interesting. My mom has no Huguenot lines that I know of but she does have one Alsatian line, but I believe they were Germanic.

My mom also got WAY less Ireland than expected. I got 24% Ireland and my only known Irish ancestry is on her side, so I was expecting her to get more than me, but she only got 8%. I have no clue how my dad could have so much Ireland, if he does, because his uncle tested and got ZERO Ireland, and his mom is just German, Dutch, and English. I guess I need to get my dad tested.

geebee
09-17-2016, 03:53 AM
Yes, an Alsatian line might well be Germanic. But don't forget that there is neither a "French" nor a "German" category. Both would fall under the heading of Europe West. Ancestry says that this is "primarily located in Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein".

But they also say that the "typical native" only has 48% of Europe West. As I noted in my earlier post, I have 44% myself -- and I have a fair amount of ancestry from other than Belgium, France, Germany, etc.

Another thing to look at is the range of a particular ancestry. Sometimes, the low end will be at 0. This means that at least one of the times they ran the calculation, the program didn't find any of that ancestry -- or at least, with enough of a probability to include it.

This is true even for my Iberian Peninsula -- the low number is 0%. On the other hand, the high is 18%. (If I remember correctly, this would be out of something like 20 times that the calculation is run.)

Come to think of it, even my Great Britain, at 27%, showed a result of just 0% on at least one run. Of course, it also went as high as 56%. But the only component that never was as low as 0% was my Europe West, which ranged from 15-71%.

If you click on an ethnicity, you'll see a range. To the bottom right of the box is a question mark. If you click on that, you'll see links to a couple of FAQ pages. One tells you how Ancestry came up with its estimate; the other tells you how the range was produced.

I guessed low on how many times they do the calculation. It isn't 20, but 40. The calculations are done on "randomly selected portions of your DNA", with a fresh selection made for each run.

As long as these "random selections" include a fairly large proportion of your DNA markers -- and Ancestry says that "Each of the 40 estimates covers a substantial portion of the tested genomic information" -- then that's probably reasonable.

geebee
09-17-2016, 03:58 AM
One thing I wish Ancestry would do -- and Family Tree DNA, as well -- is tie its ethnicity estimate to the chromosomes themselves. This is what 23andMe does.

This is really helpful when you can compare family members and see exactly where they show different ethnicities (and how well it lines up, or doesn't). Of course, that also presupposes something like a chromosome browser, which Ancestry has yet to provide. Right now, they seem to think it's sufficient to say you have "so many centimorgans shared across so many segments".

It isn't, for too many reasons to get into here. (Besides which, I'm getting off topic.)

jpb
09-17-2016, 04:41 AM
Interesting-
Well, I can see it by chromosomes on GEDmatch but I don't really understand what each of the regions mean on there...
Both my mom and I get in the fifties Europe West, and my mom is only 1/4 German/Alsatian.
My mom's ranges include 0 on all but Europe West, too. For me, both Europe West and Ireland do not include 0 in the range. My uncle gets 33% Europe West with a range of 0%-67%!

geebee
09-17-2016, 04:55 AM
If you compare ethnicity percentages between parents and children, you'll find that children don't always inherit half of whatever the parents have. It can be a lot more or a lot less -- though it shouldn't be more than the total of both parents combined.

Here's how it worked out for my wife Diane, and our daughter Kathryn, and me:

Native American: Diane, none; Kathryn, <1%; me, 1%

Asia South: Diane, 1%; Kathryn, 1%; me, 1%
Asia Central: Diane, <1%; Kathryn, 1%; me, 2%

Great Britain: Diane, 44%; Kathryn, 52%; me, 27%
Ireland: Diane, 27%; Kathryn, 12%; me, 7%
Scandinavia: Diane, 14%; Kathryn, 4%; me, 2%
European Jewish: Diane, 4%; Kathryn, 4%; me, <1%
Iberian Peninsula: Diane, 4%; Kathryn, 2%; me, 9%
Europe West: Diane, 2%; Kathryn, 19%; me, 44%
Italy/Greece: Diane, 2%; Kathryn, 3%; me, 2%
Europe East: Diane, <1%; Kathryn, none; me, none
Finland/Northwest Russia: Diane, none; Kathryn, <1%; me, <1%
Caucasus: Diane, none; Kathryn, none; me, 3%

So in some cases, Kathryn received less than the average of both parents. In other cases, she received more. But importantly, she isn't listed with any ethnicities that don't at least appear in one of her parents, or for more than the total of both parents.

geebee
09-17-2016, 05:20 AM
Both my mom and I get in the fifties Europe West, and my mom is only 1/4 German/Alsatian.
My mom's ranges include 0 on all but Europe West, too. For me, both Europe West and Ireland do not include 0 in the range. My uncle gets 33% Europe West with a range of 0%-67%!

Well, all the endpoints mean is that on at least one of the forty runs, the software didn't "see" any of that particular ethnicity with enough certainty to include it. But it isn't necessarily that none was detected, but only that the software had to make a choice among different possible ancestries, and didn't choose that ancestry in that run.

So maybe it was a matter of having to decide whether -- for each "chunk" of DNA being examined -- the ethnicity was Europe West, or maybe Iberian Peninsula. After all, some folks in the Europe West region have some Iberian Peninsula; and some in Iberian Peninsula have some Europe West -- so it isn't as "cut and dried" as one might like.

But something important to notice about each component is that there's overlap, especially in the "outer bands" on the map. So, for example, while the darkest part of Europe West covers France, Germany, Benelux, Switzerland, Austria, the Czech Republic, and northern Italy, the lighter shades reach even into Great Britain, Poland, and northern Spain.

Or if you have some Italy/Greece, the darkest color includes not only most of Italy (except northern Italy), it also includes most of the Balkan countries. But the lighter colors take in the remainder of Italy, and even extend into Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel on one side of the Mediterranean; and Spain and Portugal on the other side.

Scandinavia in its lightest shades reaches into Great Britain, Poland, and German, even though the darkest shade is mostly in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.

So to make sense of your ancestry as calculated by Ancestry-the-company, you really need to consider the regions of overlap. That means that even though your mom is only 1/4 German/Alsatian, it could be that another ancestry is adding to the Europe West. Some ancestry from Great Britain might do this, for example, instead of appearing as Great Britain.

I know that means the ethnicity estimate is therefore more "fuzzy" than we might like, but unfortunately, that's the way it is.

MitchellSince1893
09-17-2016, 03:46 PM
If you compare ethnicity percentages between parents and children, you'll find that children don't always inherit half of whatever the parents have. It can be a lot more or a lot less -- though it shouldn't be more than the total of both parents...
I mentioned this before, but this is my very situation. When I first got my results from 23andme and loaded them to gedmatch, I was perplexed as how my results typically were not plotting between my parents. Apparently, I inherited most of each parent's German and Fenno-Scandinavian ancestry, which makes me plot further east than either parent on many gedmatch tools. Yet on 23andme I was more Irish than either parent.
As you said, as long as your total percentages for a given group isn't more than the total of both paren't then it's at least plausible.

AnnieD
09-17-2016, 06:32 PM
While my father's and my results at FTDNA do not show any Iberian %, it may not be too much of a tangent to note that our AC looks rather striking, IMO, at the sub-continental & trace level. Therefore, I either need greater understanding of their look-back 1k years methodology or confirmation that their current models are not that accurate yet. :) I also get 0 to 2% S. Euro results at other major DNA companies but up to 13% SW Euro (exact % changed over uploads) at DNA.Land.

- Me: 80% B/I; 14% W. & C. Europe, 5% Finnish/N. Siberian, 2% ME-Asia Minor
- Father: 49% B/I, 47% Scandinavian, 5% ME-Asia Minor

Yes, we both add up to 101% - apparent calculator effect. ;)

However, I barely know my family tree for the last 300 years, let alone 1k years ago which FTDNA purports to represent. Hard to argue about how all those Vikings from 1,000 years ago in my father's results disappeared in mine. B)

avalon
09-18-2016, 04:49 PM
Yeah those Armada stories, and other stories, always seem to pop up, I got dark brown hair and brown eyes, and typical "Black Irish" looks lets say, as they were used to be called, it was one of the reasons why I wanted to do a DNA test actually, because I looked a bit different, some people used to say you "must have something in you", but Sadly I cannot find anything in paper trail or DNA, or DNA matches to link anything why this look prevails at least in me.

Dark hair and brown eyes are not that rare in Britain although obviously most people do have blue or light eyes. I used to think that in the Celtic fringe, darker than average features were perhaps a remnant phenotype from the Neolithic but it is probably more complicated than that with things like genetic drift and random genetic variation coming in to play.

AncientDNA results from the isles so far have been interesting but obviously we need lots more data. Irish Neolithic woman Ballynahatty almost certainly had dark hair and brown eyes and Bronze Age Rathlin1 probably had brown eyes and a lighter hair shade (although he did carry a haplotype associated with blue eyes).

The only other phenotypes we have are the Roman-era genomes from York and these guys were predominantly brown eyed so I will await more data but I do wonder about the possibility that the predominance of blue eyes in the modern British/Irish population is down to some sort of selection over the last 2000 years.

jpb
09-18-2016, 08:00 PM
My mom has very dark skin, but light eyes (blue-green) and light brown/dark blonde hair.

sktibo
09-23-2016, 10:55 PM
Dark hair and brown eyes are not that rare in Britain although obviously most people do have blue or light eyes. I used to think that in the Celtic fringe, darker than average features were perhaps a remnant phenotype from the Neolithic but it is probably more complicated than that with things like genetic drift and random genetic variation coming in to play.

AncientDNA results from the isles so far have been interesting but obviously we need lots more data. Irish Neolithic woman Ballynahatty almost certainly had dark hair and brown eyes and Bronze Age Rathlin1 probably had brown eyes and a lighter hair shade (although he did carry a haplotype associated with blue eyes).

The only other phenotypes we have are the Roman-era genomes from York and these guys were predominantly brown eyed so I will await more data but I do wonder about the possibility that the predominance of blue eyes in the modern British/Irish population is down to some sort of selection over the last 2000 years.

For what it's worth every DNA eye color calculation gives me brown eyes, but they are actually dark green. I think it's possible that any Dna test saying brown actually just means dark / not blue