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L1983
09-18-2016, 12:32 PM
I'd just like to know if anyone from Britain or Ireland (not colonial Americans I'm afraid!) received a % of Native American and/or East Asian from Ancestry?

Many thanks!

Dubhthach
09-18-2016, 03:03 PM
not me anyways. My ancestryDNA worked out as 89% Ireland (which seems bit lower than other Irish ancestryDNA i've seen -- need to test my parents)

http://compsoc.nuigalway.ie/~dubhthach/DNA/ancestrydna.png

L1983
09-18-2016, 03:15 PM
Thanks for replying. Just trying to figure out my dad's results. He got a trace amount of Native American and then some East Asian in the ranges bit. (I got a miniscule amount of NA in the ranges bit so had been ignoring it really), but now im trying to figure out if it's connected to the Irish side in some obscure way. If I was American I might think it's real, unless my unknown great grandfather was American or Canadian maybe? They lived in East London so bit of a melting pot. Was just trying to decipher if Native American had popped up for anyone else from Britain/Ireland?

C J Wyatt III
09-18-2016, 03:46 PM
Thanks for replying. Just trying to figure out my dad's results. He got a trace amount of Native American and then some East Asian in the ranges bit. (I got a miniscule amount of NA in the ranges bit so had been ignoring it really), but now im trying to figure out if it's connected to the Irish side in some obscure way. If I was American I might think it's real, unless my unknown great grandfather was American or Canadian maybe? They lived in East London so bit of a melting pot. Was just trying to decipher if Native American had popped up for anyone else from Britain/Ireland?

Small amounts of NA show up frequently. The experts tend to dismiss it as noise, but I believe we had more movement of DNA around the world in the 18th Century than people realize. Remember you had families of British ancestry in the Colonies for generations which remigrated to the British Isles or left for other parts of the British Empire after the success of the American Revolution. There was a shortage of sailors during the 18th Century so men frequently were kidnapped for maritime service. Some of these men were mixed raced often with NA in them. If they survived, they jumped ship anywhere in the world where they thought they could assimilate.

I think the NA, however small, is real in you and your dad. The problem is figuring the lines which you got it from.

Jack Wyatt

L1983
09-18-2016, 03:59 PM
Thank you for replying. I defintely think it's a possibility, like I said his family was from Poplar which was a melting pot and I don't know who my great grandfather was. I just wasn't really expecting it with his side, especially as East Asian popped up also. I'd love to hear from other people from Britain if they received a % also otherwise it's another mystery I probably won't solve!

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-18-2016, 04:02 PM
I'm in Wales with no known recent ancestry outside the UK. I got 1% "Native American" when I tested Chromo2 with Cymru/Britain's dna.
There is a theory that it could have a source amongst the Huns ( I'm Yu106 "Germanic" ). I don't think for a minute in my case it is really "Native American" (If it isn't noise). :) https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi3yu-ypJnPAhXmAsAKHXB0A4sQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Foriginhunters.blogspot.com%2F2012 %2F07%2Fattila-native-americans-and-dna-hunny.html&usg=AFQjCNGRc7_LjSv9PIVKIb_nCEKpG5QoSA&sig2=o0uS0qeOx5GdSqeMjJhllg

11720

L1983
09-18-2016, 04:08 PM
I'm in Wales with no known recent ancestry outside the UK. I got 1% "Native American" when I tested Chromo2 with Cymru/Britain's dna.
There is a theory that it could have a source amongst the Huns ( I'm Yu106 "Germanic" ). I don't think for a minute in my case it is really "Native American" (If it isn't noise). :) https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi3yu-ypJnPAhXmAsAKHXB0A4sQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Foriginhunters.blogspot.com%2F2012 %2F07%2Fattila-native-americans-and-dna-hunny.html&usg=AFQjCNGRc7_LjSv9PIVKIb_nCEKpG5QoSA&sig2=o0uS0qeOx5GdSqeMjJhllg

11720

Im not familiar with Britain's Dna results unfortunately. Does it show up with most people's results do you know? It's difficult when you don't know all of your ancestry to just dismiss things, hence why I wanted to compare, but thanks for sharing! :)

Edit: did you get any NA with wegene or dna.land out of interest (although I know they're not the most accurate!)?

firemonkey
09-18-2016, 04:26 PM
I get some NA in Geno 2 and Dna land. It's almost certainly noise.

L1983
09-18-2016, 04:38 PM
I get some NA in Geno 2 and Dna land. It's almost certainly noise.

Thank you!

L1983
09-18-2016, 04:42 PM
I get some NA in Geno 2 and Dna land. It's almost certainly noise.

Out of interest, do you score much in gedmatch? I know fully Irish people tend to which is why I was skeptical.

ArmandoR1b
09-18-2016, 05:00 PM
I'd just like to know if anyone from Britain or Ireland (not colonial Americans I'm afraid!) received a % of Native American and/or East Asian from Ancestry?

Many thanks!

How much did you get for each? Many people that actually have a substantial amount of Native American ancestry get a minute amount of East Asian, if any, at AncestryDNA.com. They get more at 23andme and even more so at FTDNA myOrigins because of a lack of some NA reference populations that the other companies use.

L1983
09-18-2016, 05:07 PM
How much did you get for each? Many people that actually have a substantial amount of Native American ancestry get a minute amount of East Asian, if any, at AncestryDNA.com. They get more at 23andme and even more so at FTDNA myOrigins because of a lack of some NA reference populations that the other companies use.

I just got >1% in the ranges bit, there wasn't even an official % so I just ignored it.

My dad got >1% Native American with a range of 0-1% and East Asian was in the ranges bit >1%. Tiny amounts obviously. We both got Mayan in wegene at around 0.30% and I've just received my dad's dna land result and he has 1% Tubular or something, not sure if this is representing the NA? Anyway I'm open to more expert opinions!

firemonkey
09-18-2016, 05:39 PM
Out of interest, do you score much in gedmatch? I know fully Irish people tend to which is why I was skeptical.

Mostly just over or under 1 % .

jeanL
09-18-2016, 05:48 PM
What's with the Central Asian?

I get 1% Middle Eastern in Ancestry with a range from 0-5% which is a Trace region and I also get <1% Central Asia which is also another Trace region with a range of 0-2%. My ancestry is Spanish (including Canary Islander which gives me some 5% African though it is Trace region), some minor Italian and ~4% Native American from my paternal Grandmother. But the OP here is Irish and still gets that <1% Central Asian, so what gives?

I get 9% UK and 5% Irish, the UK isn't trace region is a main region with a range of 0-20% and the Irish is a trace region with a range of 0-14%.

Bonacci
09-18-2016, 06:00 PM
Europeans of full North European ancestry have East Eurasian/"Native" affinity, it's not recent most the time, likely migrations thousands of years ago from Siberia, East Eurasia.

If the calculators only use some genomes of pure "West Eurasian" and Native American as the only two options most Europeans wouldn't score 100% West Eurasian with the exception of Sardinians or Early Neolotic Farmer related people but a mixture of these two would make modern Europeans.

If you're more East Eurasian/Native shifted than the average British it shows up as 1-2% Extra East Eurasian, maybe if they used Mongolian then it would be that instead of the Native American component as it's not always accurate, the same ways some Japanese gets also Native American and pure Native Americans themselves get East Asian, European "noises".

firemonkey
09-18-2016, 06:05 PM
What's with the Central Asian?

I get 1% Middle Eastern in Ancestry with a range from 0-5% which is a Trace region and I also get <1% Central Asia which is also another Trace region with a range of 0-2%..


I wonder whether these things are automatically assigned. 0-5% or above gets you 1% or more but with 0-4% or less it's <1%.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-18-2016, 06:50 PM
Im not familiar with Britain's Dna results unfortunately. Does it show up with most people's results do you know? It's difficult when you don't know all of your ancestry to just dismiss things, hence why I wanted to compare, but thanks for sharing! :)

Edit: did you get any NA with wegene or dna.land out of interest (although I know they're not the most accurate!)?

I'm told Chromo 2 is quite a good test for deep ancestry ( I'm sure people will say if that isn't the case :)) It's the only test I have done up to now but I am waiting for Family Finder with a view to doing Big Y, so it would be interesting if my "Native American" comes up elsewhere or not.
I have read that it isn't that uncommon amongst "Germanic" groups and I think a possible link to the Huns or some early Asian group which migrated West instead of East is feasible.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjR267eyZnPAhXKDcAKHYtEA5QQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdna-explained.com%2F2014%2F05%2F21%2Ffinding-native-american-ethnic-results-in-germanic-people%2F&usg=AFQjCNEl5b4SKCYEd4KluwbKdYHJlbd1sQ&sig2=G6TSoUBNm3ctRai9iIbEag

sktibo
09-21-2016, 03:34 AM
not me anyways. My ancestryDNA worked out as 89% Ireland (which seems bit lower than other Irish ancestryDNA i've seen -- need to test my parents)

You'd probably get the 95% or whatever the average is of Irish if you did a second test. This guy took two ancestry tests and got slightly different results - the difference being about 4-5%. http://ancestryforums.custhelp.com/posts/5a5f9b855c

I know it's not exactly on topic but I couldn't resist sharing this post. Just goes to show that the margin of error in these tests goes beyond the estimated margin they give you.

tamilgangster
09-21-2016, 05:47 AM
Most likely noise from ANE/EHG, there are no reports as far as I am aware, of migration of Amerindians(or even people of mixed amerindian descent) into the old word. There were problably a few families that migrated in the 17th century or so, but it would have been heavily diluted and untraceable

sktibo
09-21-2016, 06:47 AM
Most likely noise from ANE/EHG, there are no reports as far as I am aware, of migration of Amerindians(or even people of mixed amerindian descent) into the old word. There were problably a few families that migrated in the 17th century or so, but it would have been heavily diluted and untraceable

We were told once at an Indigenous Peoples gathering that when the English colonized Canada they brought some First Nations peoples back to England to show them. The story goes that when the First Nations looked upon a large palace they commented that somebody who kept that much wealth for themselves would probably be killed by the other people of the area soon.
It's a neat little story that describes the different perspectives on the distribution of wealth between the Indigenous American societies and European ones, but it also indicates that there were at least a tiny number of First Nations (Amerindians) that came to the Old World.
Do I think that the Amerindian component I often see in European gedmatch results are actually Indigenous American roots? no. But who knows, maybe one of you on here is a descendant of one of the people brought over in that story...

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-21-2016, 08:03 AM
We were told once at an Indigenous Peoples gathering that when the English colonized Canada they brought some First Nations peoples back to England to show them. The story goes that when the First Nations looked upon a large palace they commented that somebody who kept that much wealth for themselves would probably be killed by the other people of the area soon.
It's a neat little story that describes the different perspectives on the distribution of wealth between the Indigenous American societies and European ones, but it also indicates that there were at least a tiny number of First Nations (Amerindians) that came to the Old World.
Do I think that the Amerindian component I often see in European gedmatch results are actually Indigenous American roots? no. But who knows, maybe one of you on here is a descendant of one of the people brought over in that story...

It's a nice thought, but I would guess the likelihood of a British person having actual Native American descent is pretty slim, particularly if your ancestry is rooted in a fairly static (in geographical terms) relatively poor rural economy, which was the lot of most people up to the Industrial revolution.
I suppose it is understandable that in countries which Europeans "colonised" the impression is of a wealthy culture, but we tend to forget that perhaps the vast majority of people who lived in the UK would have lived lives of considerable, even extreme hardship, including near-starvation at times. That's why many moved from agriculture into a fairly grim industrial society which itself had major problems with disease and hardship - it was better than what they had come from. The British wealthy exploited their own people as well as those in other countries, perhaps things haven't changed that much. :)

A Norfolk L-M20
09-21-2016, 10:06 AM
It's a nice thought, but I would guess the likelihood of a British person having actual Native American descent is pretty slim, particularly if your ancestry is rooted in a fairly static (in geographical terms) relatively poor rural economy, which was the lot of most people up to the Industrial revolution.
I suppose it is understandable that in countries which Europeans "colonised" the impression is of a wealthy culture, but we tend to forget that perhaps the vast majority of people who lived in the UK would have lived lives of considerable, even extreme hardship, including near-starvation at times. That's why many moved from agriculture into a fairly grim industrial society which itself had major problems with disease and hardship - it was better than what they had come from. The British wealthy exploited their own people as well as those in other countries, perhaps things haven't changed that much. :)

That's an excellent point well made. Most British throughout the centuries, have lived hard working lifetimes, often accompanied by gross poverty. Although there have been some significant immigration events over the past several thousand years, most of us descend from rural peasantry, that in some cases, settled, and did not move far for an awfully long time. Back on subject, my take on these things is either ancient admixture from ANE, or later migrations from Asia. Either that, or that we place too much faith in autosomal DNA testing for Ancestry. I personally don't go for the alternative that it's always real. Small contributions to a pool are likely to be washed out by combination.

L1983
09-21-2016, 10:18 AM
Does anybody know a way of proving/disproving through Gedmatch. For instance if my father and I had Amerindian in the same spot on a chromosome. I still think it's very unlikely to be real, I'm just someone who needs to prove it either way.

sktibo
09-21-2016, 10:26 AM
It's a nice thought, but I would guess the likelihood of a British person having actual Native American descent is pretty slim, particularly if your ancestry is rooted in a fairly static (in geographical terms) relatively poor rural economy, which was the lot of most people up to the Industrial revolution.
I suppose it is understandable that in countries which Europeans "colonised" the impression is of a wealthy culture, but we tend to forget that perhaps the vast majority of people who lived in the UK would have lived lives of considerable, even extreme hardship, including near-starvation at times. That's why many moved from agriculture into a fairly grim industrial society which itself had major problems with disease and hardship - it was better than what they had come from. The British wealthy exploited their own people as well as those in other countries, perhaps things haven't changed that much. :)

Ah, I suppose I should clarify: the native American people didn't perceive the British as wealthy, they noticed that there was a great deal of wealth in the hands of a few. This is why they thought the owner of the palace would be killed: in many NA societies, they wouldn't let a single person or group amass that much wealth, and if someone did one solution would be to kill them. I'm still developing my storytelling skills!

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-21-2016, 01:02 PM
Ah, I suppose I should clarify: the native American people didn't perceive the British as wealthy, they noticed that there was a great deal of wealth in the hands of a few. This is why they thought the owner of the palace would be killed: in many NA societies, they wouldn't let a single person or group amass that much wealth, and if someone did one solution would be to kill them. I'm still developing my storytelling skills!

No that's fine, it's good to hear your perspective.:)

crossover
09-21-2016, 03:01 PM
maybe the english brought a few native slaves back home in the 1600's

C J Wyatt III
09-21-2016, 03:21 PM
maybe the english brought a few native slaves back home in the 1600's

or perhaps American sailors sailing the seven seas. I am sure that some of them were mixed race including in many cases Native American.

Jack Wyatt

geebee
09-21-2016, 04:06 PM
It's a nice thought, but I would guess the likelihood of a British person having actual Native American descent is pretty slim, particularly if your ancestry is rooted in a fairly static (in geographical terms) relatively poor rural economy, which was the lot of most people up to the Industrial revolution.

I'd agree that the likelihood of a random British person having actual Native American ancestry is very low. But, I'd also suggest that the likelihood that some British people have actual Native American ancestry is quite high.

You don't even have to imagine a scenario in which Native Americans are taken across the Atlantic (though they were). Consider the fact that Americans of mainly European descent crossed the Atlantic -- during the world wars, for example -- and that some few of them would themselves have had a bit of Native American ancestry.

If any of said Americans (or Canadians, for that matter) with Native American ancestors "mingled" their DNA with locals, then you have at least the possibility of Native American DNA in some British folks.

More likely, what people are seeing is some older component that may be found in both Europeans and Native Americans, at least if it's from a GedMatch calculator. [Especially if they don't have any recent American or Canadian ancestry. Of course, there can be a difference between the ancestors we actually have, and those we think we have. Just sayin'.]

On the other hand, if someone is British and has a Native American component of, say, more than 1% on 23andMe, I might be inclined to consider that it could be real. I wouldn't be looking for Native Americans visiting the British Isles in the 1600s, though, but more recent American or Canadian ancestry that already included a Native American component.

Dewsloth
09-21-2016, 04:14 PM
maybe the english brought a few native slaves back home in the 1600's

Indeed.


Squanto's date of birth is unknown, but many historians[who?] list it as January 1, 1585, or January 1, 1592. He was born in a Patuxet village, somewhere in the vicinity of present-day Plymouth, Massachusetts.

According to most popular accounts, Captain George Weymouth was exploring the New England coastline for Thomas Arundell and Henry Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton in 1605. He captured Squanto and four others and brought them back to England. Weymouth landed in Plymouth and delivered three of his captives, including Squanto, to Ferdinando Gorges, governor of the fort at Plymouth. Gorges taught Squanto English so that he might serve as an interpreter on future voyages.[3]

Squanto returned to New England in 1614 with an expedition led by Captain John Smith. On his way back to Patuxet, he was abducted by Thomas Hunt, one of Smith's lieutenants. Hunt was planning to sell fish, corn, and captured natives in Málaga, Spain. He transported Squanto and a number of other Native Americans to Spain, where he tried to sell them into slavery for £20 apiece. [4] Franciscan friars discovered what Hunt was attempting, so they took Squanto and the other Native Americans to safety. The Friars instructed them in the Catholic faith.[5]

Squanto persuaded the friars to let him try to return home. He reached London, where he lived with John Slany, a shipbuilder for whom he worked for a few years. Slany taught him more English. He took Squanto to Cuper's Cove, Newfoundland in 1617.[6] To get to New England, Squanto tried to take part in an expedition to that part of the North American east coast, but Thomas Dermer sent him back to London in 1618 to meet Gorges and ask for permission.[7]

In 1619, Squanto finally returned to his homeland aboard John Smith's ship, having joined an exploratory expedition along the New England coast led by Captain Dermer. He soon discovered that the Patuxets and a majority of coastal New England tribes (mostly Wampanoags and Massachusetts) had been decimated the previous year by a plague,[8] possibly smallpox. In 2010, researchers published an article suggesting that this had been an epidemic of leptospirosis.[9]

L1983
09-21-2016, 04:47 PM
I'd agree that the likelihood of a random British person having actual Native American ancestry is very low. But, I'd also suggest that the likelihood that some British people have actual Native American ancestry is quite high.

You don't even have to imagine a scenario in which Native Americans are taken across the Atlantic (though they were). Consider the fact that Americans of mainly European descent crossed the Atlantic -- during the world wars, for example -- and that some few of them would themselves have had a bit of Native American ancestry.

If any of said Americans (or Canadians, for that matter) with Native American ancestors "mingled" their DNA with locals, then you have at least the possibility of Native American DNA in some British folks.

More likely, what people are seeing is some older component that may be found in both Europeans and Native Americans, at least if it's from a GedMatch calculator. [Especially if they don't have any recent American or Canadian ancestry. Of course, there can be a difference between the ancestors we actually have, and those we think we have. Just sayin'.]

On the other hand, if someone is British and has a Native American component of, say, more than 1% on 23andMe, I might be inclined to consider that it could be real. I wouldn't be looking for Native Americans visiting the British Isles in the 1600s, though, but more recent American or Canadian ancestry that already included a Native American component.

My father received a small % from Ancestry DNA. I received a tiny amount in the ranges bit but had been ignoring it. I have an unknown paternal great grandfather. This would have been 1920s London so it is entirely possible that it is an American/Canadian ancestor. It is also entirely possible that it's just ancient. Id just like to try and figure it our either way :/

Grossvater
09-21-2016, 04:53 PM
Thank you, Dewsloth, for pointing this out. I was going to mention it but you beat me to the punch. Tesquantum (Squanto) actually stayed in the home of my pilgrim ancestor Stephen Hopkins during his time at Plymouth. During his time in England, its not outside the realm of possibility that he may have left some anonymous progeny.

ArmandoR1b
09-21-2016, 04:57 PM
I just got >1% in the ranges bit, there wasn't even an official % so I just ignored it.

My dad got >1% Native American with a range of 0-1% and East Asian was in the ranges bit >1%. Tiny amounts obviously. We both got Mayan in wegene at around 0.30% and I've just received my dad's dna land result and he has 1% Tubular or something, not sure if this is representing the NA? Anyway I'm open to more expert opinions!

The amount at Ancestry would be in the Trace Amount and as they state "it is possible that these regions appear by chance and are not actually part of your genetic ethnicity". There isn't anything concrete in your results to prove the AncestryDNA result is real or that it isn't real but I would be very skeptical about it being real. Many people get crazy results at WeGene that don't make sense at all and many people from all over Europe get Tubular at DNA.Land so it is no surprise that your dad gets it there.

A Norfolk L-M20
09-21-2016, 05:30 PM
Here is my East Anglian mother's ancestry:

https://paulbrooker.posthaven.com/my-mothers-east-anglian-heritage

A record of 123 direct ancestors all here in rural Norfolk (okay a few from over the border in Suffolk). Rural working class, no urbanisation, all parishes, going back 380 years on record. On the edge of SE Britain. No historical immigration of any size (except for Dutch Strangers on the way up the river to Norwich) since the Danish army during the late C9 AD.

She gets a trace on 23andMe spec AC <0.1% of East African

Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? I don't think so. I see such clearly off the mark records with all of our autosomal DNA test results, that I've lost a lot of faith in them. I'm still reeling from FTDNA telling me I'm 32% Southern European!

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-21-2016, 05:40 PM
I'd agree that the likelihood of a random British person having actual Native American ancestry is very low. But, I'd also suggest that the likelihood that some British people have actual Native American ancestry is quite high.

You don't even have to imagine a scenario in which Native Americans are taken across the Atlantic (though they were). Consider the fact that Americans of mainly European descent crossed the Atlantic -- during the world wars, for example -- and that some few of them would themselves have had a bit of Native American ancestry.

If any of said Americans (or Canadians, for that matter) with Native American ancestors "mingled" their DNA with locals, then you have at least the possibility of Native American DNA in some British folks.

More likely, what people are seeing is some older component that may be found in both Europeans and Native Americans, at least if it's from a GedMatch calculator. [Especially if they don't have any recent American or Canadian ancestry. Of course, there can be a difference between the ancestors we actually have, and those we think we have. Just sayin'.]

On the other hand, if someone is British and has a Native American component of, say, more than 1% on 23andMe, I might be inclined to consider that it could be real. I wouldn't be looking for Native Americans visiting the British Isles in the 1600s, though, but more recent American or Canadian ancestry that already included a Native American component.

Good point, I did say the chances are "pretty slim" in the great scheme of things. :) I supposedly have 1% "Native American" myself - I think it my case it is noise or not an accurate name for something else in my genes. It seems to be more common than you would expect from relatively low levels of contact with people which may have some Native American heritage.

geebee
09-21-2016, 06:10 PM
I wouldn't always discount trace amounts of a given ancestry, including Native American, but a degree of skepticism is in order.

I, too, have just 1% Native American at Ancestry. However, I also have 2% at 23andMe. I don't have any Native American ancestry at FTDNA, but I have East Asian ancestry and my brother has Native American ancestry*. Finally, I have at least one documented Native American ancestor, and have a number of DNA matches among other descendants of hers. Most of these descendants also have at least a trace amount of Native American ancestry; some have more (especially some with several lines of descent from said ancestor).

In this case, I believe the result is real -- actually, possibly a bit on the low side. This is where being able to see placement of the various ethnicities at specific locations on the chromosomes is quite useful. Unfortunately, I don't think anybody but 23andMe does this.

This makes it possible for me to compare my five siblings, and my daughter. Our Native American segments -- some of which we have in common, and others of which we don't -- are at least reasonably consistent with our matching.

Of course, "the New Experience" lacks an important feature that "the Old Experience" had: it was possible to see both half identical and fully identical matching. You can't now, unfortunately. I'm hoping that will eventually change.

Also, it used to be possible to see the Ancestry Composition of everyone I was sharing with. Now it's limited to just the profiles in my account. (My father, siblings, and daughter; and my wife and her brother.)

*EDIT: The significance here is that it is likely that FTDNA is mistaking my Native American ancestry for East Asian. They do the same thing with one of my sisters, though another sister has only European ancestry at FTDNA. Interestingly, that sister gets very nonspecific results: "100% Southern, Western, and Central European".

My guess is that nothing really quite fits because of the initial limiting of her results to only Europe.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
09-21-2016, 06:57 PM
I wouldn't always discount trace amounts of a given ancestry, including Native American, but a degree of skepticism is in order.

I, too, have just 1% Native American at Ancestry. However, I also have 2% at 23andMe. I don't have any Native American ancestry at FTDNA, but I have East Asian ancestry and my brother has Native American ancestry*. Finally, I have at least one documented Native American ancestor, and have a number of DNA matches among other descendants of hers. Most of these descendants also have at least a trace amount of Native American ancestry; some have more (especially some with several lines of descent from said ancestor).

In this case, I believe the result is real -- actually, possibly a bit on the low side. This is where being able to see placement of the various ethnicities at specific locations on the chromosomes is quite useful. Unfortunately, I don't think anybody but 23andMe does this.

This makes it possible for me to compare my five siblings, and my daughter. Our Native American segments -- some of which we have in common, and others of which we don't -- are at least reasonably consistent with our matching.

Of course, "the New Experience" lacks an important feature that "the Old Experience" had: it was possible to see both half identical and fully identical matching. You can't now, unfortunately. I'm hoping that will eventually change.

Also, it used to be possible to see the Ancestry Composition of everyone I was sharing with. Now it's limited to just the profiles in my account. (My father, siblings, and daughter; and my wife and her brother.)

*EDIT: The significance here is that it is likely that FTDNA is mistaking my Native American ancestry for East Asian. They do the same thing with one of my sisters, though another sister has only European ancestry at FTDNA. Interestingly, that sister gets very nonspecific results: "100% Southern, Western, and Central European".

My guess is that nothing really quite fits because of the initial limiting of her results to only Europe.

Yes you are right. Of course it is much more likely for someone living in the USA or Canada than someone from the UK.
I'm sorry I posted this breakdown earlier but didn't mention the 1% East Asian in Addition to 1% Native American. In my own case I do wonder about input from Huns or related groups. I also have an epicanthic fold if that counts for anything. :) Maybe further testing will show whether it is likely to be "real" or not.
11764

My European comparisons are even more exotic for someone with all known recent ancestry (couple of hundred years) in the UK, maybe we are right to be a bit cautious about some of the terminology used. :)

11765

dp
09-21-2016, 08:04 PM
Does anybody know a way of proving/disproving through Gedmatch. For instance if my father and I had Amerindian in the same spot on a chromosome. I still think it's very unlikely to be real, I'm just someone who needs to prove it either way.
I don't know if you have R, or if anyone has written a mod to the standardize.r routine to handle Ancestry files, but if so:
you can run admixtureDstat.r on your standardized autosomal data file. It is slower to run than admix calculations (with DIYDodecad). I periodically click in the window, which refreshes the screen so I can check if it's doing anything. It will calculate the D-statistics and Z-statistics. Depending on which you pick for Right Pop & Left Pop, if abs(Z)>3 then one of those components is valid WRT the other.
See: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/12/d-statistics-on-admixture-components.html
dp :-)

L1983
09-21-2016, 09:01 PM
I don't know if you have R, or if anyone has written a mod to the standardize.r routine to handle Ancestry files, but if so:
you can run admixtureDstat.r on your standardized autosomal data file. It is slower to run than admix calculations (with DIYDodecad). I periodically click in the window, which refreshes the screen so I can check if it's doing anything. It will calculate the D-statistics and Z-statistics. Depending on which you pick for Right Pop & Left Pop, if abs(Z)>3 then one of those components is valid WRT the other.
See: http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/12/d-statistics-on-admixture-components.html
dp :-)

Im usually on my phone as laptop is rubbish so not able to do this? I'd be happy to send my data to anyone willing to do it though.

dp
09-22-2016, 05:09 PM
I dont have a standardize.r that will work with Ancestry. Maybe someone else has modified it to handle the alleles in the same column...
Sorry
dp

IphonePlus
04-25-2017, 08:01 PM
Dubhthach, thank you for posting your results. One person that I know has results very similar to you. Do you have any Central Asian ancestors ? I hope that is okay that I aks because the person that I know had results extremely similair tyo yours. She was 97% European, 1% Middle Eastern, 1%< Caucasian, 1% unidentified

triggerfinger
11-23-2017, 04:04 AM
Yes. I am Cork, Irish 99.9% and received a % of Native American from 23andMe. Highly skeptical the only thing I have found is "Sir Walter Raleigh brought back several individuals from the Jamestown area and from the Orinoco valley. Pocahontas went to England in 1616 and died there the next year. She was accompanied by several of her tribal associates. Some of them stayed in England for several years. I don't know of any marriages or even relationships between those women and Englishmen, but it is certainly possible. Later in the 17th Century, Native American slaves were brought over. I don't know much about them, because all the evidence I have are ads in London newspapers for runaway bond-servants, described as being Indians." in the BBC

turtleygoodness
11-23-2017, 08:04 PM
One of my friends is a geneticist. He said in most cases, trace amounts of Native American in Europeans, European Americans and even African Americans with Northern European ancestry usually harkens back to Ancient North Eurasian Hunter Gatherers of Siberia rather than actual Native American ancestry. People of Scandinavian and Eastern European backgrounds get this a lot. Native Americans and Europeans (as well as other Eurasian groups) have a tiny bit of common ancestry because Native Americans were originally from Siberia and so were many ancestors of Europeans. So, don't go out and buy a headdress just yet.

JohnHowellsTyrfro
11-23-2017, 08:28 PM
One of my friends is a geneticist. He said in most cases, trace amounts of Native American in Europeans, European Americans and even African Americans with Northern European ancestry usually harkens back to Ancient North Eurasian Hunter Gatherers of Siberia rather than actual Native American ancestry. People of Scandinavian and Eastern European backgrounds get this a lot. Native Americans and Europeans (as well as other Eurasian groups) have a tiny bit of common ancestry because Native Americans were originally from Siberia and so were many ancestors of Europeans. So, don't go out and buy a headdress just yet.

Yes, I agree with that. I get various small "Asian/Steppe" percentages which sometimes includes around 1% Native American/ Southern Amerindian/Arctic Amerindian. Not impossible in a British or Irish person maybe but very unlikely that it's actually Native American.

LarryMc
11-26-2017, 10:11 PM
I see a bit of Oceanian and NA in my breakouts...from some of the things Ive read it seems possible this is from residual Denisovan strands...anyone have an opinion on this??

ollie444
11-27-2017, 05:55 PM
I get <1% Polynesian Islander in my ancestryDNA results. I'm definitely dismissing it though. ;)